and its well setup in previous episodes and scenes where Santos is trying to navigate the congressional situation in order to explicitly not have a yes man
Reminds me of another Sorkin-ism, back from the days of Sports Night: "If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree." - Isaac Jaffey
I love how Vinick takes one look at the briefing and instantly starts to advise Santos on how to solve the problem. His objections get forgotten in an instant and he becomes Secretary of State. What a shame we never had a Season 8 to see how that played out. Alan Alda and Jimmy Smits played their roles to absolute perfection is this show and despite their being seven full seasons I was left wanting more. I can't think of any other show where I truly felt that way.
MrPeterpiper1969 Tho this is one of my favorite shows of all time I think it ended right when it needed to. It was nowhere near as good as the first 4 seasons. What i would love to see is a new show with Charlie Young as the new president. Can have the rest of the old cast make cameos but that's it. All new cast but Charlie, and maybe Zoey.
Would agree except Santos knew Vinnick would agree. Two things are pertinent: 1/ Santos had given time for Vinnick to formulate his objections and was ready to counter them. 2/ As President-elect Santos would have been getting the security briefing but the decisions were being made in a White House that wasn't yet his. He wouldn't have been able to have a secure document just lying there unless he already knew the answer to his proposition.
This is one of my favorite scenes from the entire series. Despite his misgivings it becomes clear almost immediately that Arnold Vinick was the perfect choice for Secretary of State under Matthew Santos. Vinick's diplomatic savy combined with the respect for same by Santos brought the entire campaign full circle. Artfully written and masterfully acted.
And your opinions is made crystal clear at the end of this clip, where each man shows not only his knowledge, but his respect for the other man. THIS is the kind of thing we so desperately need in today's federal government, but which is sadly lacking.
Vinick is an intellectual, he can't resist giving his view on how to fix a problem when presented to him, he's also aware that he'd be great at the job, which is why he never asks "why me" etc
Leo knew. When they figured out Vinick was going to run, Leo was the one telling everyone that this guy was going to be an 800 pound gorilla. If you are a Democratic politician, your worst nightmare is a Republican presidential candidate who can win California. The last time it happened was President Reagan. Reagan's second term he won every state but Mondale's home of Minnesota and DC. It was by most measures the second biggest ass whipping in a presidential campaign.
@@Elthenar I'm a Democrat, a liberal's liberal, and I can confirm this. Shit, if a Republican can California, he's probably a Republican worth voting for.
@@dorkmax7073 Arnold will be the last Republican to ever win California (as governor) as well as Reagan being the last Republican to ever win Cali as President. The state is very diverse (which means it's Democratic). California citizens dont want the government preventing women from getting an abortion NOR do our citizens want to see gay marriage banned. Those two issues alone...will make California unattainable to any Republican.
"I don't want to go around you. I want you to do the job." "And when we disagree?" "I would give you all the time in the world to set me straight. And then I'd expect you to go out there and sell whatever decision I've made." Right there. That pause in a response, and the hard close of the eyes is when he accepts his honesty that they will work Together through future problems. That's when he realizes it's not a play, but a reality and all he has to do is say "yes."
Vinick was originally supposed to win but when John Spencer died they decided it would be too sad for Santos to lose both his running mate and the election at once so they changed it
rehan memon it’s something some people involved with the show claim and something others who were involved refute. It’s difficult to tell if it is true or not.
@@FabledGentleman There was a camp in the writers' staff that wanted Vinick to win but it was never set in stone either way, at least until Spencer's death.
If you notice, when Santos answers the "When we disagree" question is when he has him. The look on Vinnick's face shows that his REAL reservations have been satisfied.
I love this scene. As far from reality it may seem regarding the current state of affairs in American politics, there are truly elite intellectuals that are practiced and thoughtful, who see the world, not just polling.
Ah the word elite... thats what we need the smartest, brightest, best educated; Elite. How did that become a bad word or thing? I listen to Trump, MGT, Boebart and the rest and shiver. Yes, understanding political philosophy, history and diplomacy are corner stones for government decisions.
@Joshua Pope...great point ! So much for people stating this was a " die hard Liberal" show. Just observe the excellent Republicans played by Alda, John Goodman, Emily Proctor; Matthew Perry, etc.
That's what happens when you spend your life playing party politics. You get the mindset that "they" are bad and "we" are good, and only a select few can overcome that.
I disagree. He knows he's *perfect* for that job; literally the best choice possible. His struggle is dealing with the realization that his brilliance at executing that role could ultimately cast favorable the perceptions and impressions of the White House, the occupants of which he otherwise disagrees with on nearly all domestic matters. That is the reason he is so blatant about calling out how, in all domestic matters, he'll have no part in endorsing even the smallest part of their administrative agendas. Even then, he can't help but realize the better his performance, the better the administration will end up being overall, and it eats at him. But, he ultimately rises above it because he realizes its the price to pay for the betterment of the nation on the world stage.
You have to keep in mind he's still a politician. He is required to toe the line with his party or they turn on him. Parties are more powerful than people in America. Mathematical consequence of our voting system
Actually, Vinick was already heading in the direction of acceptance; just look at 1:20, when Vinick started laying out conditions. Also, at 1:45, Vinick says that if the Undersecretary of Politicla Affairs does one partisan thing, "I'm outta there." If he wasn't going to do it, Vinick would have said, "I'd be outta there."
The minute he was handed the briefing you just knew Vinick was taking the job. I am sorry that the show did not continue with these two at the helm of a new group of characters on the staff.
back when we knew Studio 60 was happening but before we had a bunch of specific details, I'd actually wondered if there'd be an outside possibility it would exist in that same universe, that Matt Santos was president. But I think probably that was never even really considered at all.
I just finished seeing the entire series. I hadn't seen it at all. Holy crap, is it GOOD! The biggest thing for me is, that this series is 10 years old and we're STILL dealing with the same issues in the world, in our government...
I started on it a couple of weeks ago and I just finished it a couple of days ago. Can't believe I didn't watch it until now. Losing Leo was devastating and I would have loved to see him as VP.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. I am currently (2022) watching Madam Secretary, and the entire series is just a detailed foreshadowing of how the Ukraine Crisis was/is going to unfold. It is scary how accurate the show was.
It's my favorite scene in the entire series. At the 3 minute mark, I love how Santos shyly tilts his head and gives a half smile at Vinick, knowing the partnership is gonna work.
@@keyboarddancers7751 It's almost certain they woud have averted the Ukraine situation, because they never would have suggested Ukraine join NATO as Kamala Harris did, thus forcing Putin's hand, and he invaded days after Kamala's tone deaf, reckless statements about Ukraine joining NATO.
@@AmazingChinaToday If you think War is as simple as one person suggesting something, then you do not understand the situation. You think military maneuvers can be organized in DAYS? An invasion isn't a Drive Through McD's run.
I like how at the end of both of their campaigns they were worried about which of them would take on the conflict that Bartlet was leaving behind, then suddenly, they're both taking it on together with their combined knowledge.
The best part of this was how Vinnick completely forgot about any animosity over the election. Any jealousy over the election was also forgotten. He instantly became Vinnick's biggest fan, and a huge help. Arnold gave frank, honest, and great advice to the President Elect. Too bad we don't see more of that in real life.
@MikeJames6 Yes because Trump not conceding, losing 2-33 in election court cases and slowing the transition process is being "gracious." Don't be blindly partisan, kid.
@MikeJames6 Hey kid, Trump is currently the president. He just lost the election. Ergo, it is relevant to bring him up in the discussion concerning post election grace. What his predecessors did is irrelevant when discussing whether or not Republicans act the same way. I shouldn't have to spell it out for you, but clearly I have to in this case.
@MikeJames6 Your question is irrelevant. Like I said, what does Clinton and Obama have to do with how Trump is currently acting? You're avoiding the premise simply because you know I'm right and have to resort to 4chan buzzwords in order to seem relevant in a discussion that you have no true value on. Get back to me whenever you're able to approach this with some emotional nuance or historical relevancy. Until then, continue screaming into your pillow "BUT OBAMA" until you get some sense of satisfaction that you're missing.
@MikeJames6 Laughable. Did Obama refuse to cooperate with Trump's transition team? Spend weeks lying about election fraud and fomenting an insurrection? Nah don't answer that. You're more full of shit than a sewer.
Alan Alda. One of the greatest actors in history amongst many. Extremely brilliant truthful and the characters that he portrayed were just characters but he did it so prominently. Oh I could feel as ifI was right there next to him true to life even though it’s just a television show or a movie. Pretty cool guy. Thanks for your entertainment my friend.
Vinick is one of the most fascinating and captivating characterisations to ever hit the screen. And unlike the most of the other WW characters, he's intelligent without being a snarky smartass (I'm thinking Josh Lyman).
@@zoltan902 just because the joke around doesn't make them snarks. I think maybe you have a problem with shows about smart people or think that smart people can't also be funny.
That is a really really ecxellent played scene by the actors AND the writer. You see how Vinick has its doubts on the offer of secretary of state and how he is struggling with Santos AND his own decision and ambition. Santos is literally making SLOWLY one step after the other towards Vinick to get him for the job in which Vinick would be excellent. And Vinick shows that immediately. Very well played!!
One of my favorite bits was just before the election. When Bartlett called them both into the Oval Office and laid out what was going in between Russia and China and his plans to send troops. Those two looked at each other with a face of pure shock and started finishing each others sentences. For all their disagreements on domestic policy, they were in lockstep of foreign affairs.
NBC never gave it a chance. Realty shows are cheaper. Too bad NETFLIX wasn't a bigger factor when the West Wing was still in production. It would have been a perfect avenue for that show.
: Originally Vinnick was slated to win at the end. John Spencer’s untimely death forced a change in direction. - I’m not sure if WW really could’ve had a second act. Very hard act to follow.
Such a textured scene and performances. "I don't see how this can work". Like this. Awesome. Another season of these two would have been amazing. What could have been.
I don’t know, I always liked the fact that they gave Alda’s character the respect he deserved in the finale. Alan Alda played his role brilliantly. I wish they had given Ed O’Neil more screen time though. I loved his acting in this series. I wish he had taken on more serious role in his career. He really is an underrated actor.
@@gregfaber3417 This is the left wing...they would never let a republican win.That being said i loved this series and made the republican opponent the best written character in the show.
“I would give you all the time you needed to set me straight. And then I expect to go out and sell whatever decision I make.” Beautiful summation of leadership and a united front.
Alan Alda is easily one of my favorite actors of all time. I was a bit disappointed when he lost, but since I also really like Jimmy Smits, it wasn't so bad.
Alan Alda is so great as Vinick throughout every episode in which the character appears. It's truly one of the great arcs in any television series ever - and it appears in my favorite series ever. Jimmy Smits, who I've loved as far back as L.A. Law, is amazing as Santos. And scenes such as the Oval Office scene in which Bartlet tells Santos and Vinick he's sending U.S. troops to stand between Russia and China are astoundingly good fiction - fiction ripped from a fictional universe in which elected officials are deeply intelligent and capable and care deeply about our country, and the electorate makes thoughtful, good choices.
The best thing about this show was that it gave us a glimpse of what the US government COULD be, if all we cared about was the best interests of all involved. The worst thing about this show is that it gives us a glimpse of what will NEVER be when it comes to the US government, because no one will ever place the best of the many over their own viewpoint.
I recently commented on a "John Adams" video about how the Founding Fathers was a mix of liberal and conservatives and varying degrees in between (and NOT all conservatives, though the Right would like to think so). Sure, they disagreed, they bickered, they followed alliances--and then the got shit done anyway. Each side has a place at the table, each is capable of bringing something valuable with them. The real question is who has the balls to take the risk and make it happen that way again? Bring in the best you have, regardless of party. If only if only.
Perfect scene. Vinick is a bit shell-shocked he's being asked to do such an important job and more so that Santos intends to give him the power and leeway to do the job. Santos gives him that paperwork and Vinick immediately fits into Secretary of State role with ease.
Someone so right for any job can't help themselves from doing the job - Santos's smarts is distracting him from coming up with reasons how it won't work long enough to start actually doing it despite all those reasons... the world needs more Vinicks as well as more Santos: people for whom the issues are bigger than the colour of their How-to-Vote cards
This offer from Santos to Vinick, a rival, is exactly what Lincoln did with with own cabinet, he staffed it with men who were political rivals, but men Lincoln had respected.
“This is your representative to the world.” “I agree.” Love how Santos showed no animosity towards Vinick and wanted him as his SoS. And as soon as Vinick got that report, all his suspicions went out the window. I really would’ve loved a season with these 2.
Why would he? Vinnick was the closest to an actual democrat you can get in Republican party. He also agreed on the spot on no negative campaign and a true debate on the issues. What was there for Santos to have animosity towards?
@@miri669 I meant like general human nature. Santos showed no animosity to the guy who almost stopped him from becoming president. That’s what I meant. Not anything about the parties.
Have to admit...Jimmy Smits was not my favorite on this (or any other) show, but, this episode and scene were amazing...His character knew that giving Vinnick a piece of information, and asking for his help, would get a yes response. That little grin towards the end did it..
Those two guys did a great job in the last seasons of the series. There could easily have been many more seasons. Too bad it came to an end. Memorable television.
It's scenes like this that remind audiences how good Alan Alda is at both comedy and drama. Hawkeye Pierce from M*A*S*H will forever be his signature role, but viewers saw him in a different light as Arnold Vinick on "The West Wing". Not surprising that he ended up winning the Emmy for his work on the show for that season.
What makes me absolutely LOOOOOOVE this scene is that he takes the job w/o even taking the job!!! He's already working before he's even confirmed! As it should be.... *sigh*.......... The good ole days.
The main reason why government today doesnt behave like this most outstanding portrayal is the lack of honour. Most people today dont even know how to spell honour let alone define it or god willing, live by it. In this series, it was clearly displayed - honour and respect. I too wish for governments today to find honoour and respect for not only their colleagues, but mor importantly their constituents and do what they were elected to do; govern.
Two of the best actors in the history of the medium, with one of the finest writing staffs doing great work! The sad thing is that every show demonstrated how awful are actual system and the candidates we have are!
The West Wing always had viewers…of all political persuasions agreeing-its the fantasy government we all wish we had, not the one today's politics has given us.
"Today's politics" (April, 2020) are the same or worse than 5 yrs ago but a result of the same cause - a vocal majority (not necessarily an absolute majority) of each party are against any kind of compromise with the other party because they believe the other party is trying to destroy our country. We've forgotten that: 1. We are all Americans and have a Constitutional right to our opinions and obligation to participate in our democracy. 2. Our government requires compromise to work properly. 3. Neither party is "the enemy" although individuals within each party may be destructive to our democracy. If there is ever a leader that can talk plainly and explain those three points so that a majority of citizens embrace those facts and not allow themselves to get pulled into harshly partisan camps, we might get closer to that "fantasy" government.
@@cntrman1705 Well said. Which is why I haven't watched any cable news in get this...20 months...I get my news from hard news sources. Cable News and parties have structured media into what Eric Weinstein brilliantly coined the "Gated Institutional Narrative" or G.I.N. Which is why podcasting now has a SHOCKINGLY larger audience than cable news. And forgive me but I should have sighted the "Fantasy Government" thing. That was a quote from the late Patrick Caddell a conservative who wrote the West Wing right along side Aaron Sorkin and another writer...dig this...Lawrence O'Donnell. Patrick said it during an interview on a West Wing BTS segment.
Vinick seemed to make a phenomenal SOS. Those two alone were wonderful together. If he was still alive I would of liked to of seen fitzwallace as secretary of defense
Did you see the condition of the intelligence report Santos handed to Vinnick? It was obviously handled as it would be if it had been pored over by President Santos. Love the touch of reality!
Alan Alda is a gift. He's a terrific actor, a wonderful human being; a devoted husband and father. No matter the TV series, or movie he is terrific. The so called actors today should just take a few minutes and watch the classic performers. Alda, Mary-Tyler-Moore, James Garner, .....
Look back at MASH. It's amazing how, when you see Hawkeye, you can't imagine any other actor playing him. What's even more amazing is that now, regardless of the role he's played, Alan has made the character thoroughly believable and true to life like few other actors can.
I have no problem imagining someone else playing Dr. "Hawkeye" Piece for the simple reason that someone else did. In the original role, Pierce was played by Donald Sutherland.
Sunnchilde he has played villains in movies and was a bad guy in first season of The Blacklist going against James Spader. He was a villain in Welsey Snipes Murder at 1600 playing a sadistic White House advisor.
![The West Wing: Vinick and Bartlet Chat Over Ice Cream [CLIP] | TNT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WYEM0C6sfFA/mqdefault.jpg)
![The West Wing: Vinick and Bartlet Chat Over Ice Cream [CLIP] | TNT](/img/tr.png)
![The West Wing: Chaos at the Convention [CLIP] | TNT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iz88gB1JOFU/mqdefault.jpg)
![The West Wing: Vinick Accepts the Republican Nomination [CLIP] | TNT](/img/n.gif)
Vinick made it clear, he will NOT be a "Yes man." That makes him, perhaps, the most valuable Cabinet Member.
and its well setup in previous episodes and scenes where Santos is trying to navigate the congressional situation in order to explicitly not have a yes man
Reminds me of another Sorkin-ism, back from the days of Sports Night:
"If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree." - Isaac Jaffey
Santos never wanted a yes man as Cabinet member. I think Vinick didn't realize that.
Leo said it to Ainsley Hayes years before. "The president likes smart people who disagree with him."
@@gregfaber3417 And Trump would fire them all if they didn't participate in his attempt to steal the election.
I love how Vinick takes one look at the briefing and instantly starts to advise Santos on how to solve the problem. His objections get forgotten in an instant and he becomes Secretary of State. What a shame we never had a Season 8 to see how that played out. Alan Alda and Jimmy Smits played their roles to absolute perfection is this show and despite their being seven full seasons I was left wanting more. I can't think of any other show where I truly felt that way.
MrPeterpiper1969 Tho this is one of my favorite shows of all time I think it ended right when it needed to. It was nowhere near as good as the first 4 seasons. What i would love to see is a new show with Charlie Young as the new president. Can have the rest of the old cast make cameos but that's it. All new cast but Charlie, and maybe Zoey.
Would agree except Santos knew Vinnick would agree. Two things are pertinent:
1/ Santos had given time for Vinnick to formulate his objections and was ready to counter them.
2/ As President-elect Santos would have been getting the security briefing but the decisions were being made in a White House that wasn't yet his. He wouldn't have been able to have a secure document just lying there unless he already knew the answer to his proposition.
Fantastic analysis and that was my favorite part of this scene.
Nice... I agree with you on this. Two goo actors in that show...I miss this show in general...
I agree with you completely. The show ended too fast. And we need it now more than ever before.
Vinick would make a great Secretary of State. He's been to Korea!
Love it!!
Well played👍
Get both parties around a table and start by getting them to agree on simply saying "Howdy"
He’s also visited Peru on a Pam-am plane……..seeking out markets for his trade goods…..and buying paintings of Llamas.
And he's a doctor!
This is one of my favorite scenes from the entire series. Despite his misgivings it becomes clear almost immediately that Arnold Vinick was the perfect choice for Secretary of State under Matthew Santos. Vinick's diplomatic savy combined with the respect for same by Santos brought the entire campaign full circle. Artfully written and masterfully acted.
Agreed. you can understand his fear but he sinks so effortlessly into the role.
Vinick was wrapping up matters in preparation for his leaving the Senate. He lost to Santos, who reaches out and offers him Secretary of State.
It was a great show. The West Wing.
And your opinions is made crystal clear at the end of this clip, where each man shows not only his knowledge, but his respect for the other man. THIS is the kind of thing we so desperately need in today's federal government, but which is sadly lacking.
Vinick is an intellectual, he can't resist giving his view on how to fix a problem when presented to him, he's also aware that he'd be great at the job, which is why he never asks "why me" etc
Leo knew. When they figured out Vinick was going to run, Leo was the one telling everyone that this guy was going to be an 800 pound gorilla.
If you are a Democratic politician, your worst nightmare is a Republican presidential candidate who can win California. The last time it happened was President Reagan. Reagan's second term he won every state but Mondale's home of Minnesota and DC. It was by most measures the second biggest ass whipping in a presidential campaign.
@@Elthenar I'm a Democrat, a liberal's liberal, and I can confirm this. Shit, if a Republican can California, he's probably a Republican worth voting for.
@@dorkmax7073 Arnold will be the last Republican to ever win California (as governor) as well as Reagan being the last Republican to ever win Cali as President. The state is very diverse (which means it's Democratic). California citizens dont want the government preventing women from getting an abortion NOR do our citizens want to see gay marriage banned. Those two issues alone...will make California unattainable to any Republican.
@@dorkmax7073 Unfortunately, that Republican would never be put up by the current RINOs leading the GOP.
@@rcslyman8929That's probably because all those Republicans you're calling RINOs are also the only ones who could win California.
"I don't want to go around you. I want you to do the job."
"And when we disagree?"
"I would give you all the time in the world to set me straight. And then I'd expect you to go out there and sell whatever decision I've made."
Right there. That pause in a response, and the hard close of the eyes is when he accepts his honesty that they will work Together through future problems. That's when he realizes it's not a play, but a reality and all he has to do is say "yes."
I love how he never actually says "yes" to the job. He just takes the report out of Santos' hand, the negotiation is over and the pair get to work.
As Bartlet would've said... "What's next?" :)
Santos handed Vinnick the foreign policy 'crack pipe' and away they went
That was the carrot though wasn’t it. It’s good writing. I miss it. Perhaps a re-boot with the Orange cheeto for sh!ts and giggles.
Beautifully put - made me laugh. In a few years maybe, when he's safely no longer claiming the presidency.
Alan Alda was magnificent in this role - would have loved to have seen a show with him as President.
Here's a cool fact: Alan Alda was one of the original actors considered to play President Bartlet, before Martin Sheen landed the role :)
Vinick was originally supposed to win but when John Spencer died they decided it would be too sad for Santos to lose both his running mate and the election at once so they changed it
@AMagicDragon, Is this true or are you speculating?
rehan memon it’s something some people involved with the show claim and something others who were involved refute. It’s difficult to tell if it is true or not.
I liked Vinick better than Santos. He had more integrity.
This was a great way to wrap up the Vinick character.
Started out as a guy who felt he'd lost to a guy who won a position made exactly for him
@@FabledGentleman There was a camp in the writers' staff that wanted Vinick to win but it was never set in stone either way, at least until Spencer's death.
That little smile by Santos at 3:00. "Got him"
Yes, it was damn good.
If you notice, when Santos answers the "When we disagree" question is when he has him. The look on Vinnick's face shows that his REAL reservations have been satisfied.
I love this scene. As far from reality it may seem regarding the current state of affairs in American politics, there are truly elite intellectuals that are practiced and thoughtful, who see the world, not just polling.
Ah the word elite... thats what we need the smartest, brightest, best educated; Elite. How did that become a bad word or thing? I listen to Trump, MGT, Boebart and the rest and shiver. Yes, understanding political philosophy, history and diplomacy are corner stones for government decisions.
I could see McCain as Secretary of State too.
Good. GOOD. Recognizing the skills your former rival has and putting them to good use for the good of all.
ILuvSmexyShowgirls awesome.
I think they always respected each other...they just had diametrically opposed views. But they were both coming from a place of service.
The only difference between Santos and Vinick was that they were on opposite sides of an election
As the old (and slightly crude) statement goes: better to have your enemy inside your tent pissing out ... rather than outside your tent pissing in.
@Joshua Pope...great point ! So much for people stating this was a " die hard Liberal" show. Just observe the excellent Republicans played by Alda, John Goodman, Emily Proctor; Matthew Perry, etc.
I love how Vinnick can't get his head around the fact that Santos actually thinks he'd be great at the job.
...and doesn't have an ulterior motive!
The GOP, gonna gop, lol.
That's what happens when you spend your life playing party politics. You get the mindset that "they" are bad and "we" are good, and only a select few can overcome that.
I disagree. He knows he's *perfect* for that job; literally the best choice possible. His struggle is dealing with the realization that his brilliance at executing that role could ultimately cast favorable the perceptions and impressions of the White House, the occupants of which he otherwise disagrees with on nearly all domestic matters. That is the reason he is so blatant about calling out how, in all domestic matters, he'll have no part in endorsing even the smallest part of their administrative agendas. Even then, he can't help but realize the better his performance, the better the administration will end up being overall, and it eats at him. But, he ultimately rises above it because he realizes its the price to pay for the betterment of the nation on the world stage.
You have to keep in mind he's still a politician. He is required to toe the line with his party or they turn on him. Parties are more powerful than people in America. Mathematical consequence of our voting system
2.00, Vinick: this is crazy. I don't see how this can work. 2.32: And it is already working.
That is why, Santos show that report to prove it is going to work.
Actually, Vinick was already heading in the direction of acceptance; just look at 1:20, when Vinick started laying out conditions. Also, at 1:45, Vinick says that if the Undersecretary of Politicla Affairs does one partisan thing, "I'm outta there." If he wasn't going to do it, Vinick would have said, "I'd be outta there."
One of the best indicators of good writing in any show is the strength and depth of secondary and supporting characters.
I think adding Peggy Noonan to the writing staff helped a great deal
Oh my god - yes! Couldn't agree more!
At this point they were main characters.
The minute he was handed the briefing you just knew Vinick was taking the job. I am sorry that the show did not continue with these two at the helm of a new group of characters on the staff.
I agree with that. It would be great to have it back on the air. Taken as a whole, it's some of the best television ever made.
Just to see the staff fill out.
back when we knew Studio 60 was happening but before we had a bunch of specific details, I'd actually wondered if there'd be an outside possibility it would exist in that same universe, that Matt Santos was president. But I think probably that was never even really considered at all.
With Josh Lyman as Chief of Staff undercutting Vinnick constantly ?
Sadly real world politics had moved on....
I just finished seeing the entire series. I hadn't seen it at all. Holy crap, is it GOOD! The biggest thing for me is, that this series is 10 years old and we're STILL dealing with the same issues in the world, in our government...
I started on it a couple of weeks ago and I just finished it a couple of days ago. Can't believe I didn't watch it until now. Losing Leo was devastating and I would have loved to see him as VP.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I am currently (2022) watching Madam Secretary, and the entire series is just a detailed foreshadowing of how the Ukraine Crisis was/is going to unfold. It is scary how accurate the show was.
Id say things are a hell alot worse.
@@Infernal460 Wondering if people will be repeating that in the years to come...
It's my favorite scene in the entire series. At the 3 minute mark, I love how Santos shyly tilts his head and gives a half smile at Vinick, knowing the partnership is gonna work.
I always cry when I get to this scene. It's just such...right now...a work of fiction. You just want to live in that world.
I wonder if a Santos/Vinick administration would've averted the Ukraine situation?
Couldn't agree more, feels worse and worse as time goes on.
@@keyboarddancers7751 It's almost certain they woud have averted the Ukraine situation, because they never would have suggested Ukraine join NATO as Kamala Harris did, thus forcing Putin's hand, and he invaded days after Kamala's tone deaf, reckless statements about Ukraine joining NATO.
@@AmazingChinaToday They invaded Ukraine in 2014. They was just a continuation of that but go ahead and blame who you want.
@@AmazingChinaToday If you think War is as simple as one person suggesting something, then you do not understand the situation. You think military maneuvers can be organized in DAYS? An invasion isn't a Drive Through McD's run.
A Season 8, built around Smits and Alda would have been a treat.
Oh what could've been. Imagine a full season of President Santos, with Vinick a frequent visitor to the White House.
Would've been the new Leo
Oh the interactions that we could have had between Vinick and Lord Marbury.
@@EchoMirage72 I see Vinick as trying his best to be patient with him as he can
I like how at the end of both of their campaigns they were worried about which of them would take on the conflict that Bartlet was leaving behind, then suddenly, they're both taking it on together with their combined knowledge.
Bartlett had said that his exit plan would be one of them.
Santos be like “my exit plan is BOTH of us.”
The best part of this was how Vinnick completely forgot about any animosity over the election. Any jealousy over the election was also forgotten. He instantly became Vinnick's biggest fan, and a huge help. Arnold gave frank, honest, and great advice to the President Elect.
Too bad we don't see more of that in real life.
@MikeJames6 Well, this aged poorly.
@MikeJames6 Yes because Trump not conceding, losing 2-33 in election court cases and slowing the transition process is being "gracious."
Don't be blindly partisan, kid.
@MikeJames6 Hey kid, Trump is currently the president. He just lost the election. Ergo, it is relevant to bring him up in the discussion concerning post election grace. What his predecessors did is irrelevant when discussing whether or not Republicans act the same way.
I shouldn't have to spell it out for you, but clearly I have to in this case.
@MikeJames6 Your question is irrelevant. Like I said, what does Clinton and Obama have to do with how Trump is currently acting?
You're avoiding the premise simply because you know I'm right and have to resort to 4chan buzzwords in order to seem relevant in a discussion that you have no true value on. Get back to me whenever you're able to approach this with some emotional nuance or historical relevancy. Until then, continue screaming into your pillow "BUT OBAMA" until you get some sense of satisfaction that you're missing.
@MikeJames6 Laughable. Did Obama refuse to cooperate with Trump's transition team? Spend weeks lying about election fraud and fomenting an insurrection?
Nah don't answer that. You're more full of shit than a sewer.
The touch on the arm with the intelligence briefing is such a subtle gesture, one that I can almost guarantee was ad-libbed by Alda.
I always wanted a "West Wing: Ten Years On" kinda of show with Sam Seaborn as President.
Will Bailey as his Chief of Staff. Josh as Secretary of something.
@@joemckim1183 No. Josh as chief of staff.
@@darkhorseash4337 He'll be the Chief of Staff for Santos' 8 years but after that long he would be in position to have an even bigger job title.
@@joemckim1183 like what? Theres not much higher lol
Mayor of a big city like NYC or Chicago.
Alan Alda. One of the greatest actors in history amongst many. Extremely brilliant truthful and the characters that he portrayed were just characters but he did it so prominently. Oh I could feel as ifI was right there next to him true to life even though it’s just a television show or a movie. Pretty cool guy. Thanks for your entertainment my friend.
One of my favorite scenes on an outstanding show
Vinick is one of the most fascinating and captivating characterisations to ever hit the screen. And unlike the most of the other WW characters, he's intelligent without being a snarky smartass (I'm thinking Josh Lyman).
Sam Seaborn was intelligent without being a snarky smartass.
Look at the actor. A.A. is the best.
Leo, CJ, Toby, Sam, Charlie, Jed Bartlett, Abby, Donna, Ainsley - the list goes on and on of smart WW characters who weren't a smartass.
@@tartfuel They're all snarks. Most of their dialogue is written to arrogantly one-up each other in battle of the wits. Intelligent, but irritating.
@@zoltan902 just because the joke around doesn't make them snarks. I think maybe you have a problem with shows about smart people or think that smart people can't also be funny.
How great would it have been to continue the story line with these two guys. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.
It would have been EPIC! So disappointed that it did not.
I don't know, I'm kind of glad they let it end gracefully. Other shows drag on, and on way past their due date.
1:50 when Vinnick realizes Santos has shot down all his objections and this might actually be for real.
That is a really really ecxellent played scene by the actors AND the writer. You see how Vinick has its doubts on the offer of secretary of state and how he is struggling with Santos AND his own decision and ambition. Santos is literally making SLOWLY one step after the other towards Vinick to get him for the job in which Vinick would be excellent. And Vinick shows that immediately. Very well played!!
One of my favorite bits was just before the election. When Bartlett called them both into the Oval Office and laid out what was going in between Russia and China and his plans to send troops. Those two looked at each other with a face of pure shock and started finishing each others sentences. For all their disagreements on domestic policy, they were in lockstep of foreign affairs.
Pity they never did a show about this administration.
That would have been pretty cool if they had done a spin-off for the new administration. I would have watched it.
The bar was set really high. Look at this clip - the quality of such a show is tough to keep at such a high level.
NBC never gave it a chance. Realty shows are cheaper. Too bad NETFLIX wasn't a bigger factor when the West Wing was still in production. It would have been a perfect avenue for that show.
: Originally Vinnick was slated to win at the end. John Spencer’s untimely death forced a change in direction. - I’m not sure if WW really could’ve had a second act. Very hard act to follow.
Reminds me all over again how much I loved that show and how much I miss it.
Vinnick would see the current state of the real GOP and would probably switch parties.
This is why I wish the series continued 😢
Such a textured scene and performances. "I don't see how this can work". Like this. Awesome. Another season of these two would have been amazing. What could have been.
I don’t know, I always liked the fact that they gave Alda’s character the respect he deserved in the finale. Alan Alda played his role brilliantly. I wish they had given Ed O’Neil more screen time though. I loved his acting in this series. I wish he had taken on more serious role in his career. He really is an underrated actor.
Vinick was originally supposed to win but after the death of John Spencer they decided to have Santos win
@@gregfaber3417 I’ve read the opposite, Santos was to win.
There are conflicting stories being told by various people involved with the show. That's why differing explanations are being heard.
@@gregfaber3417 This is the left wing...they would never let a republican win.That being said i loved this series and made the republican opponent the best written character in the show.
That's how it should be. Best person for the job. PERIOD.
Funny how they both just started saying "We"..... Very subtle.
Nice catch!!
The *GREATEST* show in the _HISTORY_ of television.
"I don't see how this can work" Santos handing that briefing was literally saying "I give you briefings and you get to work that's how this can work"
Alan Alda is a superb actor who runs circles around most others.
The beginning of a beautiful friendship
+suncore598 - Casablanca ?
“I would give you all the time you needed to set me straight. And then I expect to go out and sell whatever decision I make.”
Beautiful summation of leadership and a united front.
Beautifully written, beautifully directed, beautifully acted! Beautiful!
two GREAT actor's that do the job of acting so effortlessly . man i like both these guys
Alan Alda is easily one of my favorite actors of all time. I was a bit disappointed when he lost, but since I also really like Jimmy Smits, it wasn't so bad.
It starts like the "nobody's perfect" exchange in Some Like It Hot.
Alan Alda is so great as Vinick throughout every episode in which the character appears. It's truly one of the great arcs in any television series ever - and it appears in my favorite series ever. Jimmy Smits, who I've loved as far back as L.A. Law, is amazing as Santos. And scenes such as the Oval Office scene in which Bartlet tells Santos and Vinick he's sending U.S. troops to stand between Russia and China are astoundingly good fiction - fiction ripped from a fictional universe in which elected officials are deeply intelligent and capable and care deeply about our country, and the electorate makes thoughtful, good choices.
The scene prior to this with his former chief of staff (Patricia Richardson) & former strategist (Steven Root)..."You've gotta do this...!"
my gods, if we had statesmen like this today.
That was the right way to get Vinick into the job…just have him start doing the job and barely even realizing it lol
Sublime.... I miss this show.
The way we wish politicians really were…
Really enjoyed this scene. Would have liked to have seen more of this play out in another season.
The best thing about this show was that it gave us a glimpse of what the US government COULD be, if all we cared about was the best interests of all involved. The worst thing about this show is that it gives us a glimpse of what will NEVER be when it comes to the US government, because no one will ever place the best of the many over their own viewpoint.
I recently commented on a "John Adams" video about how the Founding Fathers was a mix of liberal and conservatives and varying degrees in between (and NOT all conservatives, though the Right would like to think so). Sure, they disagreed, they bickered, they followed alliances--and then the got shit done anyway. Each side has a place at the table, each is capable of bringing something valuable with them. The real question is who has the balls to take the risk and make it happen that way again? Bring in the best you have, regardless of party. If only if only.
I would've loved to see how the series went forward with Santos at the helm. Would have been great TV.
We need more men like Santos and Vinick.
@@avae5343 too broad a brush It is a dirty business, but there are some decent people in the business
Perfect scene. Vinick is a bit shell-shocked he's being asked to do such an important job and more so that Santos intends to give him the power and leeway to do the job.
Santos gives him that paperwork and Vinick immediately fits into Secretary of State role with ease.
Someone so right for any job can't help themselves from doing the job - Santos's smarts is distracting him from coming up with reasons how it won't work long enough to start actually doing it despite all those reasons... the world needs more Vinicks as well as more Santos: people for whom the issues are bigger than the colour of their How-to-Vote cards
I've always been amazed how this foreshadowed 2008 - an unknown POC wins the Presidency and then appoints his political rival as Secretary of State.
This offer from Santos to Vinick, a rival, is exactly what Lincoln did with with own cabinet, he staffed it with men who were political rivals, but men Lincoln had respected.
“This is your representative to the world.”
“I agree.”
Love how Santos showed no animosity towards Vinick and wanted him as his SoS. And as soon as Vinick got that report, all his suspicions went out the window. I really would’ve loved a season with these 2.
Why would he? Vinnick was the closest to an actual democrat you can get in Republican party. He also agreed on the spot on no negative campaign and a true debate on the issues. What was there for Santos to have animosity towards?
@@miri669 I meant like general human nature. Santos showed no animosity to the guy who almost stopped him from becoming president. That’s what I meant. Not anything about the parties.
@@miri669 Vinnick was such a Republican. A tax-cut, states rights Republican.
@@alarisjinn3432 yes he was. that moment in the debate was cut from the cloth republican.
Would have loved just one season with Pres. Santos - to see him navigate it all with Josh by his side.
Amazing show, would have liked to seen a little bit of Santos’ White House in the end. Some of the best writing on tv
"I don't see how this is going to work."
Let me show you.
2:48 Arnold Vinick becomes SOS this show without a doubt cannot ever be duplicated or made better
Have to admit...Jimmy Smits was not my favorite on this (or any other) show, but, this episode and scene were amazing...His character knew that giving Vinnick a piece of information, and asking for his help, would get a yes response. That little grin towards the end did it..
Jeffrey Nocera yes, that little smirk at 3:02 says “I got em. He’s in.”
You didn’t like him (Smits) on NYPD Blue?
He was great in this show.
@@RajaKhan-ym4rp Bobby Simone was a great character on that show.
Jimmy Smits is great in any show or movie he's been in, I wish he was in more things
I know that I may have commented on this but I cant help it; no matter how many times I’ve watch this, WHAT A GREAT SCENE!!! 😃😃😃
Those two guys did a great job in the last seasons of the series. There could easily have been many more seasons. Too bad it came to an end. Memorable television.
If only American politicians were more like these two... If only
Of ALL the shows being brought out for the newer generation... THIS SHOW needs to TOP the LIST!
That would be a tough act to follow.
Vinick getting immediately into "secretary of State" mode shows that he actually a) wants the job and b) will be an amazing one
Brillant video, I come back to this scene time after time. Excellent acting.
TWO AWSOME ACTORS 😍
This is what good government is about! The very best people coming together for a common cause!
"Anyone good enough to do the job would quit the moment you try to go around the State Department." Hello Mr. Tillerson?
Tillerson wasn't qualified. And he was ignoring what his boss wanted. After he called him a moron, he had to go.
we got our first tV about 1950. West Wing is still the best thing TV has produced.
It's scenes like this that remind audiences how good Alan Alda is at both comedy and drama.
Hawkeye Pierce from M*A*S*H will forever be his signature role, but viewers saw him in a different light as Arnold Vinick on "The West Wing".
Not surprising that he ended up winning the Emmy for his work on the show for that season.
What makes me absolutely LOOOOOOVE this scene is that he takes the job w/o even taking the job!!! He's already working before he's even confirmed! As it should be.... *sigh*.......... The good ole days.
Brilliantly delivered
There are a lot of calls for West Wing reunions, but damn I want another scene with these two characters.
perfection ❤
Don’t look now Arnie. You’re doing the job, and well I may add. Brilliant move by Santos, giving him that brief.👍🏻
I have always felt that. The setting president after elected. Choose people from the other parties to different secretaries positions.
The main reason why government today doesnt behave like this most outstanding portrayal is the lack of honour. Most people today dont even know how to spell honour let alone define it or god willing, live by it. In this series, it was clearly displayed - honour and respect. I too wish for governments today to find honoour and respect for not only their colleagues, but mor importantly their constituents and do what they were elected to do; govern.
Why can't our real life government work more like this?
These are 2 great actors. The last half season was some of the best TV ever
Two of the best actors in the history of the medium, with one of the finest writing staffs doing great work! The sad thing is that every show demonstrated how awful are actual system and the candidates we have are!
The West Wing always had viewers…of all political persuasions agreeing-its the fantasy government we all wish we had, not the one today's politics has given us.
"Today's politics" (April, 2020) are the same or worse than 5 yrs ago but a result of the same cause - a vocal majority (not necessarily an absolute majority) of each party are against any kind of compromise with the other party because they believe the other party is trying to destroy our country. We've forgotten that:
1. We are all Americans and have a Constitutional right to our opinions and obligation to participate in our democracy.
2. Our government requires compromise to work properly.
3. Neither party is "the enemy" although individuals within each party may be destructive to our democracy.
If there is ever a leader that can talk plainly and explain those three points so that a majority of citizens embrace those facts and not allow themselves to get pulled into harshly partisan camps, we might get closer to that "fantasy" government.
@@cntrman1705 Well said. Which is why I haven't watched any cable news in get this...20 months...I get my news from hard news sources. Cable News and parties have structured media into what Eric Weinstein brilliantly coined the "Gated Institutional Narrative" or G.I.N. Which is why podcasting now has a SHOCKINGLY larger audience than cable news. And forgive me but I should have sighted the "Fantasy Government" thing. That was a quote from the late Patrick Caddell a conservative who wrote the West Wing right along side Aaron Sorkin and another writer...dig this...Lawrence O'Donnell. Patrick said it during an interview on a West Wing BTS segment.
Man, I miss this show! They could’ve gone one more season and followed Santos’ first year as President
Vinick seemed to make a phenomenal SOS. Those two alone were wonderful together. If he was still alive I would of liked to of seen fitzwallace as secretary of defense
It’s the way it should work, for real professionals with the country’s benefit in heart.
they should have a West Wing revival that focuses on the Santos administration, just my opinion
@1:30... Pompeo certainly changed that
I love that we never see the actual Santos administration but it’s hinted at with scenes like this;
Did you see the condition of the intelligence report Santos handed to Vinnick? It was obviously handled as it would be if it had been pored over by President Santos. Love the touch of reality!
Alan Alda is a gift. He's a terrific actor, a wonderful human being; a devoted husband and father. No matter the TV series, or movie he is terrific. The so called actors today should just take a few minutes and watch the classic performers. Alda, Mary-Tyler-Moore, James Garner, .....
Look back at MASH. It's amazing how, when you see Hawkeye, you can't imagine any other actor playing him. What's even more amazing is that now, regardless of the role he's played, Alan has made the character thoroughly believable and true to life like few other actors can.
He did a 4 or 5 episode arc in "ER" and it felt like a whole different show.
I have no problem imagining someone else playing Dr. "Hawkeye" Piece for the simple reason that someone else did. In the original role, Pierce was played by Donald Sutherland.
Sunnchilde he has played villains in movies and was a bad guy in first season of The Blacklist going against James Spader. He was a villain in Welsey Snipes Murder at 1600 playing a sadistic White House advisor.
@@djshotty Donald Sutherland was Hawkeye