Current Stadiums That Were Built Too Small…
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
- Current Stadiums that were built too small…
References:
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www.baseball-reference.com/te...
www.seamheads.com/ballparks/b...
www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/gi...
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The SF Giants ballpark seating was purposely limited. The team wanted to create scarcity/high demand, which means higher ticket prices. It was also nearly impossible to add any more seats, given the size of the site( about 12 acres) and the shape of the site, and having to align the field in a way to help block high winds( one reason for the high right field wall)
PacBell is my favorite MLB ballpark. I find it modern yet charming and very comfortable.
In the 90s, the Red Sox almost moved across town to the Seaport District and I was all for it. They could have had a stadium on the water that very closely mimicked PacBell.
Granted, the Henry ownership group has made countless improvements to Fenway after the previous ownership group failed to get the new stadium approved. And Fenway is worlds better than it used to be. But, make no mistake, it still has countless awful seats that are almost useless to watch a game in. And it's still ridiculously expensive to go to...
With Oracle Park today, the upper decks aren't selling as much as it was in the Barry Bonds era (2000-2007) and their World series dynasty (2010-2016). Like modern parks today exception of Yankees Stadium, Fenway park, and Wrigley field, stadiums are shrinking to improve fan experience. The field level outdoor VIP suites the new trend.
@The LIM Report Well, that's changed in a week's time. They are five games behind the Smell A Guggenheim Mercenaries.
People are leaving SF in droves and the city is dying. The SF Giants have seen their time come and go.
There are way more ways to get to Oracle Park than driving there, having to put up with traffic on the bridge or 101 or 280. First of all, there's Caltrain, and many people use it to go to games, coming up all the way from San Jose up the Peninsula. Then there's BART and the Muni, and then the Oakland Ferry. I was at Jack London Square on June 3, 2023 late in the afternoon, and there were plenty of Giants fans who were waiting for the ferry to go to the game. NO one has to drive to that park, and it's stupid to do so!
I mean can we expect a stadium built in the 1920s to be held to the same standards as newer stadiums
The answer is yes, if renovations are done correctly.
It certainly worked very well for Ohio State and Green Bay.
When it's done wrong like Chicago, then the answer is no which is one of the many reasons why the Bears are leaving Soldier Field.
@@moonytheloony6516the main issue with soldier field was that the renovation was done all within the footprint of the old structure.. they simply didn’t really have any space to add more seats, and spread things out more..It is what it is..
Plus the MAIN REASON why the bears will be leaving eventually is that the McCaskey’s want to own their own domed facility… that would be the case even if soldier field had been renovated better.
A done stadium mean’s a Super Bowl weekend, it’s all about money never forget that 😊
@@moonytheloony6516 I mean in terms of it being initially built too small.
@@lukeminosky2485
Soldier Field was not initially built too small. It's earlier capacity not long after completion was well-over 74,000 seats.
The problem then, wasn't the seating capacity.
It was the shape of the stadium which was not favorable for watching football, which is why part of the stadium was closed off in the 1970's through the 1990's lowering the capacity to approximately 66,000 seats as can be seen in aerial photographs taken from that time period.
I'd give Fenway Park an honorable mention. They've added seats over the years with very little space to work with.
I was going to mention that too.
It was built in 1911-12. It was fine back then. And in a few decades, it barely got 10,000 per game. It wasn't until '67 where they started to sell out again. Just too long ago to mention...
@@derbagger22 Ah yes. Hailing from Boston and attending a few home games growing up, I can attest to the major changes. One thing that is overlooked (IMO) is the character and tradition of a baseball stadium. Both the Yankees & Boston, just to mention 2. Tom Yawkey, one the owners in the 40's 50's Red Sox was more or less using the team as his personal "toy" and did nothing to enhance the stadium or build a winning team. Once he passed, new owners transformed both the stadium & team to what it is today. Yes, Fenway Park is truly a piece of Americana. Thanks for a most interesting video also.
Gillette Stadium in Foxboro MA should be in the list also. While it was being built, the Patriots won the Super Bowl in their final season in the old stadium at the beginning of the Tom Brady era. They have been at 100% capacity every season since
Wrigley also
I thought the premise of contemporary stadiums built too small was interesting, but including stadiums built over 100 years ago breaks that. It doesn’t surprise me that century old stadiums for popular teams had to be expanded. Soldier field acts as the one exception because it was basically rebuilt only to be immediately irrelevant.
And the Bears owners want out of that city.
The giants stadium is perfect
You mean Met Life? Or SF?
@@kevinbergin9971 sf, sorry
You pack so much into these short videos. Great research, great presentation, REALLY enjoy this channel. Your # of subscribers is really climbing, congratulations
Thank You
I am a Giants fan since 2000 and I'm kinda surprised about that Oracle park's capacity being an issue. Its really hard to justify that seating capacity for a stadium is limited since in baseball, they play games on a daily basis whenever their playing at home. Like its unlikely to sellout games for 6-10 consecutives days right.
During the playoffs, its fairly a different story. But yeah kinda surprising info for San Francisco. Lets go Giants!!!!
Would love to hear a similar video for current arenas. One I would suggest is Scotiabank in Toronto as it could easily accommodate 20k+ based on ticket demand.
Also the 4200 seat Entertainment and Sports Arena in Southeast Washington, DC as part of the St. Elizabeth’s East redevelopment. And attached to the state of the art practice facility for the Wizards, Mystics and G League GoGo. Should have been been6000 capacity, with the exception of the G League team which only draws less than 1000 fans.😊
Nah, the Leafs could fill in a 30,000 seat stadium if they want to
For the Toronto Maple Leafs yes. For the Raptors no. Toronto is the only market where the NHL team outdraws the NBA team. Scotia Bank Arena was a project created by the Toronto Raptors when they were an expansion. The designed was changed to accommodate hockey when MLSE purchased the Raptors. That's why it's not such a great arena.
Leaf fans are suckers.
Chicago & Montreal are the only NHL venues to get around the 20k mark. Not because they're the only ones that could draw that....but they're the only ones stupid enough to reduce their ticket values that much.
Bigger isn't always better.
I thought Soldier Field would make the list, since the Bears are now looking to build a new stadium in Arlington Heights, Il.
That's exactly what I was thinking when watching this video. The Chicago Bears are in the third-largest city & media market in the country playing in the smallest (renovated-redesigned) stadium in the NFL.
Soldier Field should have been not only on this list but the first stadium mentioned, given all of the well-documented media coverage about their intent to leave that stadium by purchasing land in suburban Arlington Heights.
The current Soldier Field is a lesson on how NOT to design a renovation.
@@moonytheloony6516 the stadium held more before the renovations...they reduced the capacity.
That doesn't really fit a "built too small" category when you renovate and reduce the size.
The renovation was terrible...but that doesn't mean it fits here.
The Bears are going to build a stium across from the old one then tear thr old one down.
I'm very surprised Chicago's renovated/re-designed Soldier Field wasn't mentioned.
Aside from the reckless disregard for the stadium's original architecture, the redesign actually reduced the size of Soldier Field to be the NFL's smallest stadium in its third largest media market which is beyond ridiculous.
It's a current dilemma (one of many) that led to the team to purchase land in suburban Arlington Heights Illinois, with the intention of building a new stadium for the Chicago Bears.
Think about the lack of logic that was used in 2002-2003. Green Bay, a much smaller media market, 100 miles from a major city not only completed a superior renovation/expansion of Lambeau Field (with regard to the stadiums original architecture) , it also has roughly 19,000 more seats than Chicago's Soldier Field which had a seating capacity of over 74,000 in its earliest configuration.
The irony is that George Halas, founder of the Chicago Bear, played a very critical role in the financing/construction of Lambeau Field.
The headquarters for USA soccer was literally a few blocks from the stadium. Soldier Field is too small to be used as a World Cup venue for 26.
The McCaskey’s want to own their own domed facility that they can hold events in year round.. and you can’t do that in an open-air stadium that has cold winters.
Even if the renovation had been done better- and I don’t really see how though as it all took place within the footprint of the old facility-, they’d still be looking to leave soldier field..
@@nochey78
The pre-redesign didn't use the entire structure regarding the northern part of that stadium. It originally held over 74,000 people. The issue is the approval of the chosen design itself. It had complete disregard for the original architecture which is why there is an obvious clash in appearance which looks like a UFO landed on top of the original stadium itself.
I would have liked to see some of the other proposals that were passed over at the time, if there were any.
Soldier Field wasn't built too small. It was actually large at the time. It was the renovation that killed it.
@@moonytheloony6516 they didn’t use the northern end of the structure because those seats would’ve been too far away from the field… that space was flat out unusable for football. That’s why it was used as a parking space for the players instead.
Plus…Even if they had chosen a better renovation proposal, do you really think that would’ve stopped the McCaskeys from wanting to own a domed facility that can be booked for events year round, and thus be more profitable ??
The McCaskey’s now wanting a domed facility is an issue that a better renovation of Soldier Field simply wouldn’t have resolved.
Louisiana State University football stadium was built at a time when the legislature would not pay for a football stadium but would pay for two identical dorm buildings. A football field was put in the middle and a single level of stands was attached to the dorm buildings. Since that time the ends have been enclosed, uppers have been put in, and most recently the last upper was put in the remaining endzone.
By your criteria, you could add several other old college football stadia which were built in the 1930's or earlier, but have had to be expanded (in some cases more than once). Among the more notable examples are Notre Dame Stadium, Tennessee's Nyland Stadium, and Penn State's Beaver Stadium.
It's interesting that Acrisure Stadium is not referred to as a stadium that "drastically needs renovation" like others
It could prob use some, after going there it was clearly built fairly barebones
Heinz Field was built smaller as this was the trend in the late 90's / early 2000's. The thinking was it's better to sell out a smaller stadium with better seating. PNC Park, also in Pittsburgh, epidemies this paradigm. Pitt also plays in the stadium and rarely sells out. The yellow seats are an eyesore when watching the Panthers play on TV
Don't forget Ohio Stadium was nicknamed 'The Horseshoe!' Once of the best stadium names IMO.
He mentions The Horseshoe @ 1:53
I wouldnt say it was the trend per say, Cle, Tb, and balt built 99 and 98 were all 70k+
When Michigan & Ohio Stadiums first opened many said they were 2 big.
They would be wrong
What is now called DKR Texas Memorial Stadium in Austin is another one that started way too small.
Much like the Horseshoe.
I’ve got no complaints about Oracle Park, none whatsoever, since it was landlocked as it was.
Att Park is the epitome of how and what a mlb ballpark should be, been there a few times during those sold out games 10yrs ago amazing views during night and day games.
Giants stadium is perfect size IMO. It’s my #1 of the modern ballparks.
Steelers had a 10 year waiting list when they moved from Three Rivers to Heinz Field. They didn't want to exhaust that list too much. They have sold out every home game except one when since 1972. And that was with the replacement players in 1987.
great video!
Adding seats to the end zone at Heinz Field would take away from the view of the rivers and city ? Do people actually go to a Steelers game to look at the rivers and city or watch the game ?
They might if the team starts losing again
Look at original pictures of the Royals stadium
Fair that a lot of these were built in much different times. The Steelers one a great example though as that small south end stand was always super odd.
I’d put Fenway in this list. One of the smallest stadiums for one of the most popular and historic franchises. I understand the history of the park and why they can’t leave, but it is routinely packed.
They have toyed with the idea of a new stadium, but Boston is one of those cities where the real estate (if you could find a plot big enough) is way too expensive. The Seaport District (before all of the new development) was an idea, but South Boston balked at the traffic concerns. Maybe over the Mass Pike?
It's no longer open, but RCA Dome in Indianapolis was too small. They finally closed it and opened Lucas Oil Stadium.
I saw a game in RCA and was shocked how enclosed and small it was! Coming from Philly, it felt like I was watching a soccer game.
I would have mentioned Fenway Park and Autzen Stadium.
Not a capacity issue, but SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles was supposed to host several World Cup soccer games, maybe the final, in 2026. However, this brand new, $2.6 billion stadium is too narrow for soccer. So far, owner Stan Kroenke, who also owns two soccer teams, is refusing to pay for the removal of seats and other changes that would be required to meet FIFA guidelines. I enjoy your videos, BTW.
What about stadiums built too small for leg room and hip room? Those are too small. Too few seats is not too small...
Because most Americans are overweight
I don't know where you get your information but Lambeau Field was planned to be expanded in stages from the start, they didn't play in Milwaukee due to more seating, they made an agreement to play there to keep an NFL team out of Milwaukee and only stopped playing there when it became apparent that would never happen and Lambeau simultaneously was getting those luxury boxes.
I thought for sure that Fenway would make your list
Ohio stadium was criticized for being too big when designs were made public, going as far to say it would never be filled.
How was Soldier Field not one of these especially after the dismembering renovation?
That was not a renovation. The old stadium was totally replaced. The only part that remained was those columns.
MLB stadiums don't need more seats. It would rather be a challenge to fill over 50 000 seats 81 games a year in the long term.
I live in downtown SF, about a 20min walk from the ballpark(AT&T or Pac Bell or whatever the hell we're supposed to call it now). I think it's such a awesome thing to have a stadium 🏟 right in or blocks away from the literal downtown area. It makes me think back to the early 1900s when ballparks were built in goddamn neighborhoods right in the city center; the impact and importance that a professional baseball team had back then was immense. Im sure they could add 5 thousand more seats to the park and have little trouble filling them. But i like the fact that it's not some huge place with a bunch of empty, unsold seats on gameday(as with the team a 15min BART ride away, Oakland A's). No matter what game you're at during the season. It'll always be at or close to a sell out. BUT... Since that's the case, there are no real "cheap seats". Even when they are playing the crappy Pirates on a Tuesday afternoon; cheapest game day ticket is ridiculously high(exact opposite of the price you can get at an Oakland A's game!)
No mention of Fenway Park?
Oracle was built with less than the 50,000 attendance limit for NFL teams, because the Giants didn't want the 49ers to play there; however, UC Berkeley played their home games there in 2011, it was used for one of the bowl games until Levi's was finished, and the XFL San Francisco Demons used it in 2001. It's also been used for soccer matches, and hosted, in 2018, the Rugby World Cup Seven a Side Championship. If the 49ers were to move back to SF, there's plenty of old industrial space a few miles south of Oracle and Chase to build a stadium.
The re-configured Soldier Field should have made this list. It's capacity is listed at 61,500, which is the smallest in the NFL by nearly 2000 seats. It's also in a legacy city for the NFL and the 3rd largest market.
Fedex field has left the chat
FedEx Field is a strange case. It originally held about 80,000 and was expanded several times to hold I think it was 85,000 at its peak. But the team's decline led to a loss of fans, and the shrinking of its season ticket waiting list (which, if it wasn't a mere publicity stunt, went away before it was admitted to) led to a contraction in seating
I'd add Gillette Stadium to this list. It has a capacity of only 65,878, which is actually lower than the capacity of 68,756 when it originally opened. The Patriots went from 2001 to 2019 without ever having a losing season, and made the playoffs every single season from 2009 to 2019. While they haven't performed as well in recent years, they have some of the highest average ticket prices in the league, and a long season ticket waitlist. They could've easily filled an 80,000 seat stadium. Gillette Stadium is still bigger than the stadium it replaced, and I understand why they were conservative on increasing capacity, but it just seems like they could've used something quite a bit bigger.
Memorial stadium in Lincoln should be on here
Hey, Forgotten Places Channel! I help book guests for a live nightly talk show/podcast and would be interested in having you on to talk about your content. Is there an email where I can send an inquiry? Thanks.
How can you not mention Fenway?
Fenway was built over 110 years ago and at the time, it was similar in size to the other major league baseball parks built at that time. Also, in 1912 Boston had two major league teams, with the Boston Braves sharing the Boston area with the Red Sox.
Lincoln Financial feild should make the list. Its too small and a bad design missing corners .
Wow SF only has 41K seats? They should have at least 55K seats
Fenway Park? In the 80’s it was pretty damn small
What? Michigan and that school from Ohio ,their stadiums are too small? Serious? over 100 thousand?
They could tear down ScotiaBank Arena (Toronto) and make it 4x the size and still sell out. But keeping
Vanderbilt Baseball is a pretty significant one.
Oracle Park is the perfect size. Best ballpark in the MLB.
the smallest arena would be the Miami Arena, 15k for basketball 13K for hockey the building was obsolete before the shovel was put in the ground
The largest NFL stadium in Maryland is M&T Bank stadium, Daniel Snyder downsized FedExField from 91000 to 68000, M&T Bank Holds 71000
Thay should build all stadiums small after all it will soon be just the vary rich going to games
You obviously have no idea why the Packers played games in Milwaukee. Do some research.
I'd throw in new Yankee stadium which has about 9K fewer seats than the rebuilt stadium it replaced (and about 25K fewer than the original). The Yanks would often sell out the rebuilt stadium so building a small cookie cutter park didn't make much sense..
It isn't really a cookie cutter in the "round stadium that looks like every other round stadium" sense. That is long gone. But it does have that absurd "pretend old fashioned park that basically a shopping center with a baseball diamond attached" lookalike thing that's plagued MLB since Camden Yards
@@Staszu13 I consider the modern cookie cutter parks to be anything built since the mid 2000s. The ballparks have almost identical grandstands, seating capacity, dimensions and like you said they're basically malls with a ballpark inside it. At least Camden Yards was different when it was built.
@@turkeybowlwinkle4440 Yes, Camden and whatever they're calling the new Comiskey in Chicago these days were different - until everyone else had to have one.
Auburn arena was built when we had no established basketball program.. now it’s sold out before the season begins and ticket resale is usually anywhere from $150-500 for a 2 hour basketball game. Great environment but not good for the folks without season tix
I’m a die-hard San Francisco Giants fan. Born and Raised in the Bay Area. They are my team for life. 🧡🖤
Have a lower capacity that can sell out, charge more
Certainly, not many. That tells you that, too many stadiums were overbuilt.
In a way, building small isn’t so bad. When NASCAR experienced record growth in the 80’s & 90’s, racetracks built additional seating. W/ the downturn in the sport, racetracks have dumped thousands of seats , even so; many races these days show swaths of empty seats for races.
That's bullshit because I've been to Kentucky and Michigan International speedways and they're PACKED with people
@@coastaku1954 In 2018 seating at Michigan was reduced from 71,000 to 56,000.
Never understood why the 'views from the stadium' really mattered. Sure in pics it looks cool, but, im there to watch whats going on, on the field.
When im tailgating at Miller Park, its ugly around it. But again, im there for bags beer and brats, not to sight see.
You forgot Levi Stadium… their concourse area sucks!
SF too small? They can’t even sell it out unless they’re winning a WS.
Great American Ball Park, in Cincinnati, Ohio; desperately needs renovation! For the Cincinnati Reds, to be the first professional baseball team, it’s hands down the worst baseball ballpark, in major league baseball.
Sorry. You really missed Beaver Stadium. NO stadium has undergone more expansion than Beaver Stadium. Literally should be No. 1
similar to the stadiums that were built too big, only Americans it seems build them too small too
The same thing its about to happen to future 0:31 las vegas mlb team with a 30k seat there building 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
We are trained to think in terms of bottom lines, GDP, maximizing profits, but those things are not what a stadium, or a sports team, is for.
A sports franchise is a fancy toy owned by a billionaire. In the worst years, it earns him millions in profits.
Building a stadium that is a joy to view, to visit, to spectate in, and to play in are at least as important to civic health as squeezing another several million per year out of the little guy for the sake of “the economy.”
I am damn lucky to have Gillette and Fenway in my back yard. Pittsburgh should be incredibly pleased by their sportsball cathedrals. 5,000 more seats at Heinz would diminish its beauty, grandeur and civic value.
Really? No hockey arenas? Scotiabank Arena in Toronto has like the longest sell out record in the NHL, tickets go for as high as $500 to over $1000 because of demand, all cause the capacity is only 18,000. It could easily be 25, even 30k seats as the Greater Toronto Area and Southern Ontario as a whole is one of, if not the LARGEST hockey market in the world
This is about stadiums not arenas, I dont consider them the same.
@@forgottenplaces9780 I do though, they're big venues where you can watch sports
Here is the sixth one for this list. The "new" Bills stadium will reportedly have a capacity of 60,000 plus the elite luxury boxes. That team has a current season ticket holder number of 63,000. So that tells us they do not give a damn about the once in a while game attendees and those that get season tickets will be paying a massive premium to get them.
Umm I still don’t understand why the horseshoe and the big house are on this list. 😂
The key word is “built” to small not are too small.
Tampa Bay's ugly baseball dome should've been discussed
Hey there!
In Pittsburgh Heinze was built with less seating because Dan Rooney wanted it that way. He wanted there to always be a demand for seats. When they added seats it was for a reason and not to see more tickets. Season ticket plans go back to 1970. You have to DIE to get a tickets from the waiting line. They are passed on in families after death. When the mills closed and as many as 1,000,000 people left. And they took the tickets with them. Yes we travel well but on Sunday you see a lot of decedents if those who left when the Steelers were at their best. They infuse there family with their love of home. The Steelers are the symbol. They fly to Pittsburgh to games and to as many road games as they can. I am 60 years old and live 4 miles from Heinze and have been to 1 regular season game in my life.. It is impossible. So they are trying to get young blood in the stands. Rumer has it a new big remodel is coming with more seats
Its not impossible to get tickets lol i got them to a game once easily and for a decent price, secondary markets put an end to the scarcity
@@forgottenplaces9780 That is part of the problem. Ticket passed on to those who don't care. Use to be you prayed for someone to give you exhibition game tickets, Ticket resale places are the problem in all tickets, Games and concerts. Makes getting tickets harder and drives the price up, I will never get tickets from one of them. Only regular season game I have been to cost $500 a seat. Got it from the seat owner who could not make a Monday night game. Always using these companes at any price is a lot how I felt about using cocaine use in the 70/80's. God's way of telling you that you make too much money.
@@Member15201 it was like 90 a ticket, today u can pretty much go to any game even the packers, just depends on what u want to pay, i dont think its that people dont care, its just habits and quality have changed, today tv quality is miles better and todays generations dont want to be obligated to go to every game. Personally i am fine with only going to 1-2 nfl games a year esp when beers 13 dollars and parking is through the roof
May I ask where you are from? I am use people treating Steelers tickets like gold. Most people I know are not looking for single tickets. They what season tickets. People like to know those around you. Be social. Party.
I'll never forget when the half-wit John Kerry called it "LAMBERT FIELD"
Most are too big
College football shouldn't count
Lakers arena sucks
Naw
Bruh…you completely missed Fenway park and Wrigley Field, but yet you lost Michigan Stadium and Ohio Stadium? Gtfoh. I think your bias made you completely miss your own assignment. Maybe you should reconsider redoing your list, because honestly, this is a pretty poor list outside of listing Lambeau Field
I didnt put wrigley or fenway because back when they were built baseball attendance was much lower, space didnt become an issue there until much later, therefore they werent “built” too small they became too small much later, i stand by my list…
4th one to comment
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First
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Boring
larger stadiums are overrated
Not if they're filled.
Tell me you have absolutely no understanding of the law of supply and demand without actually saying it.
Less seats means higher ticket prices. Less seats also mean more suites.
Should we ignore the clickbait title? More like "Current stadiums that weren't the current stadiums when they were built."
My sons Little League stands are inferior. I had to lean against a light pole back in ‘83 during a game
Beaver Stadium or GTFO.