I laughed so hard when the kids got home from the card game where Johnny was arrested and Tony as a kid said “dad wouldn’t let me ride the rides because I passed gas when he was eating lunch” hahahaha it had me wheezing lol.
@@bullywhispers9544 could've been the creators of the show. For whatever reason decided to change things up, instead of being the difference between Tony's memory and reality.
This is my favorite take on the movie I have seen. I noticed Johnny Boy was colder than what we see in the show flashbacks in which he acted with more of a "eyyy wise guy" persona. Makes so much sense
Tony had mental issues I mean he was no nut overall but he had issues that get overlooked in hood communities no matter the race he needed to feel good about why he did what he did it isn't easy to just say idk I just like gangsta shit when in reality you grew up in it and ya father was a wild racist hooligan and ya mama a dramatic nut you got a super insecure uncle around and all ya other non blood uncles are killers he needed fantasy to escape that dark grim reality and to top it off they in new jersey
The movie is shit though... I will always stick to the original show. The gothfather cool goodlooking wise guy Johnny feels a lot less realistic to the loudmouth NJ italian guy that acts just like Tony and his own guys. The movie is just off on all things.
@@easygrin1127 the one in the movie was a loudmouth compared to the wise guy show version, he’s audibly louder and more aggressive in the movie. Opinions on the movie aside you have it backwards imo
@@easygrin1127Yea. I want to watch it because even it’s bad it’s still sopranos. Like how so many Lovecraft movies are terrible but I still watch because I like Lovecraft stuff so much.
Chris saying his dad was a junkie isn't just from things he's heard, it's also his own explanation for his suffering with addiction. At least I always saw it that way. He wants to believe that, at this point in his life.
The Sopranos episode with his father's comare Fran clearly showed how Tony's memory of his father was totally idealized and Livia was treated terribly by him.
She knew what he was. He contemplated going straight and she threatened to kill his children. Anytime a career criminal contemplates going legit, anyone of any human decency encourages them lol Livia wanted Johnny's looks, Johnny's charm and Johnny's swag and protection, but not the women on the side she knew damn well came with his life.
i always figured the flashback in the Sopranos was the memory from Tony’s perspective. it makes sense to why Janice was alot closer to Johnny than she actually was. Tony was always jealous she’d get to hang out with their dad.
Janice was being hideously emotionally used and abused by Johnny. He literally used her as both a front and a shield. He's a scumbag. She's clearly a daddies girl and hasn't caught on to the fact she's nothing more than a front for his criminal enterprise. No wonder she was so fucked up later on. There was nothing 'sweet' about Johnny Boy's relationship with his children. The irony of the flashbacks is though it's evident to us how dangerous Johnny is, Tony can't see it when recounting his childhood lol
I think at 3:54, although racism is obviously the underlying issue with Noah, I personally grew up in an Italian family. The fact that he has his feet up on the table and is putting on his shoes while meeting her father is like one of the ultimate insults to a man in his own house. Personally I was raised to not go into someone’s parent’s house when growing up before meeting parents or the family
That's the point of the situation, Noah is a spoiled and entitled kid who doesn't realize he's acting like a brat in the house of genuine racists who hate the fact that he's with their daughter on principle. Like everything else in the Sopranos, no one is "in the right" fully.
“There are no true war stories”-Tim O’Brian. Every story ever told especially involving trauma, people have edited certain details whether they meant to or not. Whether that’s to look more fondly on the past or lessen some previous embarrassment or just a simple misremembering of events, there’s always a slightly untruth in there somewhrere
I love that book. Staring at it right now on my bookshelf next to me. This book really changed the way I look at stories. Tim's final chapter in the book explaining the stories was something that confused me greatly at first but then I had an understanding consume me that echoes into the way I look at EVERY story and tale or historical artifact to this day.
Made a lot of good points. At first I questioned the casting choice of Jon Bernthal since he doesn't resemble the late Joseph Siravo, but the latter was an idealized version of his father while the latter was the reality.
The issue is that David Chase just doesn’t have stories to tell. He wishes he could be a great movie director like Scorsese, but he’s a TV guy who spent decades in the trenches only to revolutionize the medium at the END of his career. He wanted to tell the story of the 1967 riots, but it would only sell if he shoehorned the Sopranos into it. He has finally accepted that. David Simon could have made this story work, but then David Simon isn’t cursed with having to make another “The Wire”. The Sopranos needs to stay buried with James Gandolfini. I don’t think that’ll happen, however. The Sopranos has sadly gone from a phenomenon to a “property”. That’s the nature of the beast, I suppose, and also a flaw of the series. Tony and his crew are in the end just characters not real true to life people. They’re merely vehicles for more stories. They are on that path that devolves from cultural touchstone to memetic fodder to kitsch to bygone kitsch. Millions more will yet be made in the process.
That’s how I read the scene is what we saw in the show is how he’s telling the story to Melfi vs how it actually happened that’s why in the flashbacks we see Livia as extra horrible and Johnny Boy looks better by comparison bringing home ice cream etc where in the movie we actually see that both parents in their own way equally dysfunctional
I like this video because it made me realize that with a genius like Chase all details are purposeful. I did not think about WHY things were different, I was just annoyed by some of the changes. But to go back and think about perspective and how unreliable the human brain can be with memories it makes total sense. I really wondered why the movie made Johnny boy seem more serious than the show, and why it made Livia seem less dominant. But with the logic of this video, it makes sense that the contrast is due to the perspective of Tony and how his brain remembered things to better complement his narrative.
But there's another interpretation to "The Many Saints of Newark"... this story is strongly allegedly to have been presented from Christopher's otherworldly perspective. How do we know anything that happens in this story is "what really happened"?
ok. But a conventional view of Hell is that part of the agony is knowing the truths about your life that you denied during life but being unable to do anything about it. For example, Christopher speaking from Hell, acknowledges his free will choice to do the evil that placed him in Hell (he went to hell for his uncle, Tony).
@Francisco Di Cecco I don’t mind it happening but I’m going to remember purely the plot points as canon and try to forget about the somewhat messed up timeline and bald sil
I've liked Vera Farmiga ever since The Departed when she was the psychologist and love interest of the characters played Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio
The beauty of the show’s great writing is how it dealt with the issues of suppression and denial throughout Tony’s therapy. So when we watch the movie the truth vs fiction doesn’t have to be explained, it beautifully unfolds in front of us.
Not the actual creator David Chase for his The Many Saints of Newwoke? But the fictional character of Tony Soprano is rewriting history? Silvio is really Benjamin Button? 🙈🤦🤤
First off, this is a great post. I don't know that I would call the movie version reality though as this is basically Christopher's version which he's pieced together from various sources, including Tony as well as his mother, Paulie, Silvio, etc.
My only retort to this, they show the events of the infamous car story (JohnBoy shooting his gun through Livias beehive bun.) And it was all pretty consistent to the way Janice describes, Tony's reaction in the cabin backing it up in a way. So this tells me that it might not be entirely true that he is misremembering unintentionally but more selective memory. Case in point with the meat story as well, since he had that one completely repressed.
Good point, but that is Janice telling the story (quite accurately, while drunk!) while Tony wants nothing to do with it and would probably misrepresent it if reminiscing or telling Melfi about it, even if he does remember it truthfully.
This movie grows on me the more I let it marinate. Because I enjoy David Chase's work enough to understand that he had to have put more into it than what a lot of people took off the surface value. I enjoyed it at the time, with these understandings, much like the show, I've grown to love the deeper meanings behind certain things Chase does.
The movie was a huge step down from the series but it wasn't horrible. I consider it like 3 From Hell. It took something that had an awesome definitive ending and then made more when it wasn't needed. This film serves no purpose.
One thing I would say to this, the movie made it pretty clear that Johnny was not someone pushing Tony to OC. Some scenes made him more out to be a disinterested and sometimes exasperated father. Tony, however, said in the Sopranos that he didn’t really have a choice but get into OC because of how he was brought up. This is a big contradiction. Really, Johnny’s relationship to Tony was much like Tony to AJ. OC was on the fringe of their family life (arrests, etc…) but Tony never wanted an OC life for AJ. We see in the movie a similar dynamic. The reality is, Tony chose OC while AJ may have if he weren’t a soft headed dummy, but in this case being that saved him (seemingly) from being his father. Of course, having Livia as a mother vs Carmella has a role in that.
Bit harsh on AJ. Your statement implies that members of OC are not soft-headed dummies, when it could be argued that you’d have to be a dummy to get involved in it in the first place. There are multiple times in the Sopranos when the tough wise guy facade of these characters crumble along with their principles, omerta etc. That way if life is definitely not glamorised by the writers, and in the end we see how the downfalls of that way of life are ultimately not worth the benefits it brings.
This was great man. I've been avoiding watching any MSON theories cause i wasn't overly fond of the film, but this topic intrigued me and you knocked it out of the park. It's a shame... between Dickie's story of his death, Harold and the black power movement there could have been a great story, but there was no motive behind anything that happened in the movie, just events, i still don't know why any character did what they did, just that they did it. Oh well, hopefully the upcoming series might shed some light. Anyways... have a sub bud, really enjoyed this video
The nature and operation of human consciousness are parts of Chase's repertoire. The final scene in the series is testimony to that. This movie is more of the same and people are still bitching bc they don't understand what they are watching...probably the same people who believe that the Mobsters are men of honor and dignity.
the first thing I noticed was in the Sopranos version it was New Jersey State Troopers.Many Saints of Newark version it was Newark PD- (the uniform shirts).The Troopers are holding all the little girls hands,rushing them away from the scene of their fathers getting locked up-,bringing them to where they can call their mothers to come pick them up.In the Many Saints of Newark the little girls/daughters are standing on the side witnessing the ordeal- Janice sees Tony/questions him.In the Sopranos-Tony is hiding from view unseen asa the daughters are rushed away by the Troopers
The biggest inconsistency was Satriales. In the series, Johnny Boy cuts off Mr. Satriales pinky around 1970. We know this because Barbara, a baby in Down Neck, is sitting at the table in a high shair and talking in For.tunate Son. Tony and Janice are also noticeably olde but not by a great lor. Plus, we are informed Mr. Satriale later committed suicide and it is at least strongly implied Satriale signed the pork store over to Johnny Boy to pay off his gambling debts. But in the movie, Johnny Boy has already taken over Satriales during the Newark riots. His crew watches the fires on the first night of the riots from the back door of Satriales. A little later, Johnny Boy goes to prison for four years and is there starting sometime late 1967 or '68 until 1971 or '72. I suppose Tony coukd be jumbling memories of different years into one time period but since Mr. Satriale makes no appearance in the movie it's hard to say for sure what's going on. .
Paulie confirms in the christmas episode that Johnny "busted out" Satriale's after he chopped off his finger and that was directly responsible for Mr Satriale shooting himself, what years those were i couldn't say but... Tony says the family told him Johnny went to Montana to be a Cowboy during his 4 year stint... I don't think the movie Tony was young enough to fall for that. Movie Tony at the arrest seems... 11 or 12? Series Tony seems like 6 or 7.... but unless Tony was like 3 or 4 when his father got arrested i can't see him believing for 4 years his dad was in Montana being a cowboy. Being generous: Johnny did two big stints in jail. Not so generous: Chase's timeline got fucked up
The discrepancy is between Tony’s memory and Christopher’s memory, since Chrissy was the narrator, so Many Saints was from his perspective. Thats why Chrissy’s dad is much more attractive than pictures of him show.
I wonder how a movie sequel would be if Tony Sirico would have been alive detailing AJ’s rise to the top, considering now that we just saw that Tony acted somewhat like his son when he was young. AJ, Silvio(out of his coma), Paulie, Patsy, Paulie Jr., Benny Fazio, Dante "Buddha" Greco (Tony’s fat bald driver), Hesh, Artie Bucco, Terry Dordia, etc. Also, Carmine Jr., Butch and Albie Cianflone representing New York.
Although MSOW left way too many stories up in the air, I think that it is a great movie. David Chase is a master of the plot device known as a cliff hanger. I think we will see a lot of our unanswered questions explained in a further series that will probably pick up around the time Tony made his bones. David Chase has already stated as much in an interview about what he would like to do next as far as the sopranos cannon goes. He also signed a five year deal with HBO the day MSOW was released. The Many Saints Of Newark is a good movie, because it’s setting us all up for something else, it seems disjointed, it feels incomplete, and it leaves many more questions than answers, and in that respect, it is a fantastic piece of film. I don’t think that our questions will go unanswered for long.
I'm a massive fan of the series, but the movie was not good. 2ish hours was not even close to enough time to develop and properly conclude all the plots that were opened up. Most of Many Saints was nothing but fan service and dumb ways of tying in things that had no relevance to the series. The ages of the characters were messed up, and guys like Puss, Paulie, and Sil were all caricatures. Chase did this for money, nothing more.
In Sopranos Home Movies, Janice said Johnny shot Livia's hair while Junior and his goomah were in the car. In the movie, it was Dickie and Joanne (I assume) in the car.
That speaks alot considering junior is the one who had him whack, seems junior could have push dickies name to the ground so no one speaks about him anymore, literally tony and christopher are the only ones who talk about him too
If you don't know the word for mistress or girlfriend or side chick, just say mistress or girlfriend or side chick. Please don't write goomah. That's not a word.
Chase revealed the Tony was killed. Chase made young Tony like AJ. I think it's possible he did those two things to set up a sequel series to Sopranos. I think Chase finally answered the question because a sequel series would be about AJ after the death of his father. So it would be necessary to answer that question.
He said later that the hollywood reporter was bullshit and everyone took it all wrong. In the end, tony ratted everyone for that sweet witness protection program and the life of Lefty Rosenthal, who was the FBI agent known as Achiles along with his dead wife.
Ok - Chase never said Tony was killed. I don't know why people keep making this statement. Chase simply said he had an idea for showing Tony's death at the end, which he later abandoned. He never said what we saw was Tony's death. He clarified as much during the Talking Sopranos podcast with Michael Imperioli and Steve Schirippia. The final scene of the Sopranos is not Tony's definitive end. Frankly we don't know what happened after that scene. The point of that scene was not to show Tony's death but to show that Tony is forever going to be looking over his shoulder, terrified of everyone who comes across his path. He'll either go to jail, die, or live to fight another day until the same dilemma re-appears down the road in another form, with the same choices of go to jail, die, or live to fight again. And round and round the circle goes. He has given up any chance of betting better and has become a mindless villain who does not want to change. His family is totally corrupted by his lifestyle. His closest companions are either dead or alienated. His children have not stayed away from his circle though they aren't badly off either. Meadow has married an associate's son and will represent people like him. His son won't be a criminal but he'll be working in some low level position for a fellow mafiosi's film company. Tony is going to be doing the same thing he's been doing for the previous 5 seasons until another "live or die" situation comes up, starting the cycle again. Basically, the point of the end is that Tony's growth is over. There's no real character change coming for him. His story will be more of the same. Therefore, there is no need for the audience to see the same shit over and over again. Hence the cut to black. It's Chase's way of saying "the story of Tony Soprano is over, nothing left to see, go home." The screen cutting to black is an artistic flourish on Chase's part, much like the video rewind of Tony in Season 3 episode where he meets Noah and Livia dies, or the episode it goes mute when Gerry Torciano is shot and his blood splatters on Silvio.
Idk man. I think David chase not only just didn’t CARE about continuity in many saints but that he wasn’t originally even intending on this incident being the same incident. IE: this was never meant to be a sopranos film until late stages of development.
The skinny kid in flashback was just whatever in my opinion. He even stated when referring to his sis “she still thinks I’m that little fat kid” so he has no foggy memories about being skinny lol
Tony's reflection of his father from the show isn't warmer or more loving it shows him only spending time with Janice see he can do crime. Also his interaction with Olivia was perfect when he comes home in the show its how she normalizes the life his father lives.
This is pretty good 👍🏻 Also could you explain Tony age in the show and film cause on his HBO page and his driving license in Another Toothpick it says he was born in 1959 but in the movie it seems to be 1955 now cause if he was born in 59 that mean he would be 8-13 in the film but clearly he was much older by the end of the film cause he is now 16-17?. Could you try to use the same logic like this video to explain or could it be retconning/an oversight
Yeah except this really doesnt work, unless you forget the many, many, many instances of Livia being exactly who Tony felt she was to him from third party exchanges she has with Carm, Meadow, AJ, Janice, Arty, Jr., etc. This is a great theorycraft, but the show is clearly canon. Those werent Tony's perceived memories, those actually happened.
Exactly. David Chase just wanted to change shit to fit his old man writing... He created one of the greatest shows of all time (number 2 behind The Wire) and I give him respect... But he is losing it now
The movie is a piece of shit rhey did erverything wrong on it. From not hiring italian American actors to them doing imitations of the original actors. Its poorly directed poorley acted and badly written.
What do you think of the angle I outlined below. Your opinion is much appreciated. Keep up the great work! I feel that Tony's personality and way of thinking when he began to see Dr. Karen Hill, is primarily molded from his time in the mafia. Not so much by any experiences prior to entering that life. Actually, I feel he uses his pre-mafia memories just to create and justify his actions in the mob. I also feel it happened unconsciously due to the high stresses of being a made guy and later a boss and the image he needs to present, and most of all stress of constantly trying to stay out of jail. The combination of those two high stress factors created the Tony Soprano we all know. I'm sure he most likely remembers everything perfectly, but choses to create a specific image of himself when he talks to Dr. Karen Hill, knowing that he has to take into concern the possibility that one day his mob family might find out he's speaking to a shrink, so just in case one of them decides to go looking for Karen and find out what he's been telling her, he's already planted the storyline that benefits him the most. The same goes for speaking in code to try and throw off the feds. Tony creates it all,almost innocently, all to stay out of jail.
He definitely uses that to justify his entry, he even told Melfi he had no choice, which wasn't the impression the movie left me with. At that point he would I think he would just be so used to lying that it would be subconscious and Pussy did say Tony remembers everything, so it would make sense. Thanks for watching!
We can also just say that since the team that worked on the movie, that included the fucking original creator of the show didn’t re watch the show before making this movie is the reason why the scenes are differnt
I guess Tony fantasized that his dad was a bad-ass OG with old-school swag for days as opposed to the cardboard cutout so-called Johnny Boy we got in the movie.
@@JamesSmith-si7ts The first time you see his real rage in the Satriales scene, it's horrifying. The Rocco beating was heavy, but the way he just full punches Satriale (an elderly man) in the stomach and tells him 'Shutdafuckup!' is horrifying. You just know Johnny Boy was all smiles and jokes when Satriale was placing bets and asking for money. Johnny had compartmentalized violence to the point where cutting the old mans finger off was 'nothing personal'. But the wiseguy swag, "arrested da wrong guys!"/"We wuz at the Yankee game..." so fucking cool you can't hate the guy lol
In the movie Dickie tells the black cabbie to go the wrong way up a one way street. Dickie gets out of the cab. Cops then approach the cabbie and beat him. The fuse is lit.
Tony rmemebered his dad being more handsome and he that he played a minor part in the Newark civil rights movement being chased by black kids at the busstop. They were actually right to tell him to pick up his wrapper
Wow this is fascinating, i never thought like this..that is just a memory.. it's maybe weird what i am gonna saying, but if it's all a memory in down neck episode. You think tony misface how his parents looked like? And this the explanation why his parents seem nothing a like, from the show to the film.
Add something into real life as Sopranos Dr. Melfi when she dropped Tony would have been killed. Especially after for years she took his money then all of a sudden became feeling guilty about being his doctor...
Why would he kill a respected, innocent medical professional ? There would immediatly be an FBI investigation and once they found he was her patient ?!
Tony seems to have remembered that he was skinnier as a kid. Funny stuff.
That made me fucking LOL thank you for that
It's because he saw himself as a varsity athlete 🤣
That's funny. He even said when Janice took down the for sale sign at there mother's house "I'm still a little fat kid to her."
Oooooohhhhh
The kid who played young Tony in the movie looked a lot like AJ in season 1-2
The difference between Tony’s memory and reality was his dad was the punisher he just couldn’t remember
😂
Johnny always had the makings of a varsity Punisher.
I liked his Dad better when he was chasing Carlito through Grand Central
@@southie3177 Me too.
Bobby Baccala's dad was the Terminator.
David chase himself states the characters are all liars and all memories are unreliable for them
I agree.
Just a cop out for this film's inaccuracies.
@@blitzy3244 I think more so they intended the flashbacks to be inaccurate and then the film was also lazy
@@kashthrills He narrates like 3 sentences the whole movie.
@@blitzy3244 i was gonna say the same thing lol
I laughed so hard when the kids got home from the card game where Johnny was arrested and Tony as a kid said “dad wouldn’t let me ride the rides because I passed gas when he was eating lunch” hahahaha it had me wheezing lol.
Me too! It was a great addition to the story
Me too
For some strange reason i read that in ray liotta’s voice
@@bullywhispers9544 your nuts lol
@@bullywhispers9544 could've been the creators of the show. For whatever reason decided to change things up, instead of being the difference between Tony's memory and reality.
This is my favorite take on the movie I have seen. I noticed Johnny Boy was colder than what we see in the show flashbacks in which he acted with more of a "eyyy wise guy" persona. Makes so much sense
Glad you liked it!
Tony had mental issues I mean he was no nut overall but he had issues that get overlooked in hood communities no matter the race he needed to feel good about why he did what he did it isn't easy to just say idk I just like gangsta shit when in reality you grew up in it and ya father was a wild racist hooligan and ya mama a dramatic nut you got a super insecure uncle around and all ya other non blood uncles are killers he needed fantasy to escape that dark grim reality and to top it off they in new jersey
The movie is shit though... I will always stick to the original show. The gothfather cool goodlooking wise guy Johnny feels a lot less realistic to the loudmouth NJ italian guy that acts just like Tony and his own guys. The movie is just off on all things.
@@easygrin1127 the one in the movie was a loudmouth compared to the wise guy show version, he’s audibly louder and more aggressive in the movie. Opinions on the movie aside you have it backwards imo
@@easygrin1127Yea. I want to watch it because even it’s bad it’s still sopranos. Like how so many Lovecraft movies are terrible but I still watch because I like Lovecraft stuff so much.
Chris saying his dad was a junkie isn't just from things he's heard, it's also his own explanation for his suffering with addiction. At least I always saw it that way. He wants to believe that, at this point in his life.
The Sopranos episode with his father's comare Fran clearly showed how Tony's memory of his father was totally idealized and Livia was treated terribly by him.
Everyone on the show was an asshole and everyone had cognitive dissonance
He was a saint!
She knew what he was. He contemplated going straight and she threatened to kill his children. Anytime a career criminal contemplates going legit, anyone of any human decency encourages them lol Livia wanted Johnny's looks, Johnny's charm and Johnny's swag and protection, but not the women on the side she knew damn well came with his life.
100% agreed. most people focus on how cringe that scene is but it totally serves a purpose
@@carlosalegria4776 Happy Birthday Mr. President
Vera Farmiga played young Livia perfectly imo
i always figured the flashback in the Sopranos was the memory from Tony’s perspective. it makes sense to why Janice was alot closer to Johnny than she actually was. Tony was always jealous she’d get to hang out with their dad.
Janice was being hideously emotionally used and abused by Johnny. He literally used her as both a front and a shield. He's a scumbag. She's clearly a daddies girl and hasn't caught on to the fact she's nothing more than a front for his criminal enterprise. No wonder she was so fucked up later on. There was nothing 'sweet' about Johnny Boy's relationship with his children. The irony of the flashbacks is though it's evident to us how dangerous Johnny is, Tony can't see it when recounting his childhood lol
@@listentothenightfilmsMakes you understand the fondness Tony had for Dickie Moltisanti in The Many Saints of Newark.
Great analysis, definitely brings new light to what I thought were unintentional inconsistencies in the film
Thank you!
...or were all giving them too much credit...
I don’t think Chase would redo famous sopranos scenes to make it purposefully inconsistent
I’m with you. I thought there were a lot of unintended errors.
My eyes opened
No, your initial theory was correct... bad writing.
I think at 3:54, although racism is obviously the underlying issue with Noah, I personally grew up in an Italian family. The fact that he has his feet up on the table and is putting on his shoes while meeting her father is like one of the ultimate insults to a man in his own house. Personally I was raised to not go into someone’s parent’s house when growing up before meeting parents or the family
40 year old Mexican here. I was raised the same way.
Noah was way too comfortable on Tony's couch. Lol
No it’s racism, fuckers too Americanised to remember Erithea
That's the point of the situation, Noah is a spoiled and entitled kid who doesn't realize he's acting like a brat in the house of genuine racists who hate the fact that he's with their daughter on principle. Like everything else in the Sopranos, no one is "in the right" fully.
@Azav312 funny enough grew in a black household and I would say the same
To "Italians" (Italian Americans aren't real Italians) EVERYTHING is an insult. So petty and narcissistic.
“There are no true war stories”-Tim O’Brian. Every story ever told especially involving trauma, people have edited certain details whether they meant to or not. Whether that’s to look more fondly on the past or lessen some previous embarrassment or just a simple misremembering of events, there’s always a slightly untruth in there somewhrere
The things they carried is a great book.
Loved that book
The Things They Carried is the book that helped me get Cusamano's nickname. Because Tony was a little bit right, people don't say that one no more.
I love that book. Staring at it right now on my bookshelf next to me. This book really changed the way I look at stories. Tim's final chapter in the book explaining the stories was something that confused me greatly at first but then I had an understanding consume me that echoes into the way I look at EVERY story and tale or historical artifact to this day.
Yeah that quote by Tim is some navalgazing BS.
This f*ckin’ Sopranos Street is more creative than Spielberg.
Made a lot of good points. At first I questioned the casting choice of Jon Bernthal since he doesn't resemble the late Joseph Siravo, but the latter was an idealized version of his father while the latter was the reality.
*former was idealized
he was the young Miklós Horthy
You got it backwards, but yes.
Dont get me wrong, I like the guy that played Johnny Boy in Many Saints; but nobody could have replaced they guy that played Johnny Boy in the show.
Jesus Christ I really wish I could love this movie because of all the fan service, but it’s just not enough.
The movie was wack and this video is a massive overreach, sorry. The show was great and that's all we have people, sorry.
I didn't see it, and i've seen The Sopranos atleast 7 times by now, with the reception it got I probaly never will
The issue is that David Chase just doesn’t have stories to tell. He wishes he could be a great movie director like Scorsese, but he’s a TV guy who spent decades in the trenches only to revolutionize the medium at the END of his career. He wanted to tell the story of the 1967 riots, but it would only sell if he shoehorned the Sopranos into it. He has finally accepted that. David Simon could have made this story work, but then David Simon isn’t cursed with having to make another “The Wire”. The Sopranos needs to stay buried with James Gandolfini. I don’t think that’ll happen, however. The Sopranos has sadly gone from a phenomenon to a “property”. That’s the nature of the beast, I suppose, and also a flaw of the series. Tony and his crew are in the end just characters not real true to life people. They’re merely vehicles for more stories. They are on that path that devolves from cultural touchstone to memetic fodder to kitsch to bygone kitsch. Millions more will yet be made in the process.
fan service is fucking cringe
@@meridianco2281 The movie itself might not have been the best, but this video is hardly an overreach. It’s very well thought out.
That’s how I read the scene is what we saw in the show is how he’s telling the story to Melfi vs how it actually happened that’s why in the flashbacks we see Livia as extra horrible and Johnny Boy looks better by comparison bringing home ice cream etc where in the movie we actually see that both parents in their own way equally dysfunctional
Are forgetting Livia tried to have him wacked? This movie is stupid
I like this video because it made me realize that with a genius like Chase all details are purposeful. I did not think about WHY things were different, I was just annoyed by some of the changes. But to go back and think about perspective and how unreliable the human brain can be with memories it makes total sense. I really wondered why the movie made Johnny boy seem more serious than the show, and why it made Livia seem less dominant. But with the logic of this video, it makes sense that the contrast is due to the perspective of Tony and how his brain remembered things to better complement his narrative.
Bad writing
@@JoeyMartz Many Saints has flaws, but bro the good shit is good in this movie.
But there's another interpretation to "The Many Saints of Newark"... this story is strongly allegedly to have been presented from Christopher's otherworldly perspective. How do we know anything that happens in this story is "what really happened"?
oh shit
Now you're taking it to Kurt Vonnegut evaluating Hamlet status. Nice! Thanks for watching!
I guess Paulie was wrong about Chris only being in purgatory lol
ok. But a conventional view of Hell is that part of the agony is knowing the truths about your life that you denied during life but being unable to do anything about it. For example, Christopher speaking from Hell, acknowledges his free will choice to do the evil that placed him in Hell (he went to hell for his uncle, Tony).
@Francisco Di Cecco I don’t mind it happening but I’m going to remember purely the plot points as canon and try to forget about the somewhat messed up timeline and bald sil
I agree on most points, but Many Saints was really nothing more than fan service. Would've been 1000x better as a miniseries.
The SNL sketch with Tony as a teenager in the 80's was accurate!
its crazy how much livia looks like eddie falco/carmella in the movie
I thought the same thing!
I've liked Vera Farmiga ever since The Departed when she was the psychologist and love interest of the characters played Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio
The beauty of the show’s great writing is how it dealt with the issues of suppression and denial throughout Tony’s therapy. So when we watch the movie the truth vs fiction doesn’t have to be explained, it beautifully unfolds in front of us.
Glad you did this. Always knew Tony was rewriting history.
EVERYONE is.....
Not the actual creator David Chase for his The Many Saints of Newwoke? But the fictional character of Tony Soprano is rewriting history? Silvio is really Benjamin Button? 🙈🤦🤤
First off, this is a great post. I don't know that I would call the movie version reality though as this is basically Christopher's version which he's pieced together from various sources, including Tony as well as his mother, Paulie, Silvio, etc.
My only retort to this, they show the events of the infamous car story (JohnBoy shooting his gun through Livias beehive bun.) And it was all pretty consistent to the way Janice describes, Tony's reaction in the cabin backing it up in a way. So this tells me that it might not be entirely true that he is misremembering unintentionally but more selective memory. Case in point with the meat story as well, since he had that one completely repressed.
Good point, but that is Janice telling the story (quite accurately, while drunk!) while Tony wants nothing to do with it and would probably misrepresent it if reminiscing or telling Melfi about it, even if he does remember it truthfully.
The only problem is that Janice said Uncle Junior was in the back whereas in the movie it was Dickie.
@@RaySchwarz. does she? I'm not calling you a liar, I just distinctly remember her saying "one of dad's friends and a goomah ect ect"
@@jordanhoward9678 Nope Janice defintely said Uncle Jun goomah is the one who told them about it. But we now know that was bs.
@@liamcephus9687 then how would they know? did dickie or his wife tell them?
This is by far the best Sopranos channel on youtube. Kudos
Johnny Boy's "friend" at the fairground was clearly Feech la Manna.
Amazing analysis I loved the comparisons
This movie grows on me the more I let it marinate. Because I enjoy David Chase's work enough to understand that he had to have put more into it than what a lot of people took off the surface value. I enjoyed it at the time, with these understandings, much like the show, I've grown to love the deeper meanings behind certain things Chase does.
Movie was garbage
The movie was a huge step down from the series but it wasn't horrible. I consider it like 3 From Hell. It took something that had an awesome definitive ending and then made more when it wasn't needed. This film serves no purpose.
One thing I would say to this, the movie made it pretty clear that Johnny was not someone pushing Tony to OC. Some scenes made him more out to be a disinterested and sometimes exasperated father. Tony, however, said in the Sopranos that he didn’t really have a choice but get into OC because of how he was brought up. This is a big contradiction. Really, Johnny’s relationship to Tony was much like Tony to AJ. OC was on the fringe of their family life (arrests, etc…) but Tony never wanted an OC life for AJ. We see in the movie a similar dynamic. The reality is, Tony chose OC while AJ may have if he weren’t a soft headed dummy, but in this case being that saved him (seemingly) from being his father. Of course, having Livia as a mother vs Carmella has a role in that.
Bit harsh on AJ. Your statement implies that members of OC are not soft-headed dummies, when it could be argued that you’d have to be a dummy to get involved in it in the first place. There are multiple times in the Sopranos when the tough wise guy facade of these characters crumble along with their principles, omerta etc. That way if life is definitely not glamorised by the writers, and in the end we see how the downfalls of that way of life are ultimately not worth the benefits it brings.
No offense to Jon bernthal but Joseph sirvio was better as Johnny boy in my opinion R.I.P
This was great man. I've been avoiding watching any MSON theories cause i wasn't overly fond of the film, but this topic intrigued me and you knocked it out of the park.
It's a shame... between Dickie's story of his death, Harold and the black power movement there could have been a great story, but there was no motive behind anything that happened in the movie, just events, i still don't know why any character did what they did, just that they did it. Oh well, hopefully the upcoming series might shed some light.
Anyways... have a sub bud, really enjoyed this video
Thank you very much! I am glad you enjoyed and thanks for subbing
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U really think someone would forget his dad disappeared for years to prison?
All the Harold crap should have been sidelined for a different kind of film. Had no place in MSoN.
The nature and operation of human consciousness are parts of Chase's repertoire. The final scene in the series is testimony to that. This movie is more of the same and people are still bitching bc they don't understand what they are watching...probably the same people who believe that the Mobsters are men of honor and dignity.
the first thing I noticed was in the Sopranos version it was New Jersey State Troopers.Many Saints of Newark version it was Newark PD- (the uniform shirts).The Troopers are holding all the little girls hands,rushing them away from the scene of their fathers getting locked up-,bringing them to where they can call their mothers to come pick them up.In the Many Saints of Newark the little girls/daughters are standing on the side witnessing the ordeal- Janice sees Tony/questions him.In the Sopranos-Tony is hiding from view unseen asa the daughters are rushed away by the Troopers
Hadn't thought of the Janice part. Great video!
The biggest inconsistency was Satriales. In the series, Johnny Boy cuts off Mr. Satriales pinky around 1970. We know this because Barbara, a baby in Down Neck, is sitting at the table in a high shair and talking in For.tunate Son. Tony and Janice are also noticeably olde but not by a great lor.
Plus, we are informed Mr. Satriale later committed suicide and it is at least strongly implied Satriale signed the pork store over to Johnny Boy to pay off his gambling debts.
But in the movie, Johnny Boy has already taken over Satriales during the Newark riots. His crew watches the fires on the first night of the riots from the back door of Satriales. A little later, Johnny Boy goes to prison for four years and is there starting sometime late 1967 or '68 until 1971 or '72.
I suppose Tony coukd be jumbling memories of different years into one time period but since Mr. Satriale makes no appearance in the movie it's hard to say for sure what's going on. .
Whats going on is David Chase blew the writing.
@@walterdoss7950 I think if he did, it was intentional.
Paulie confirms in the christmas episode that Johnny "busted out" Satriale's after he chopped off his finger and that was directly responsible for Mr Satriale shooting himself, what years those were i couldn't say but... Tony says the family told him Johnny went to Montana to be a Cowboy during his 4 year stint... I don't think the movie Tony was young enough to fall for that.
Movie Tony at the arrest seems... 11 or 12? Series Tony seems like 6 or 7.... but unless Tony was like 3 or 4 when his father got arrested i can't see him believing for 4 years his dad was in Montana being a cowboy.
Being generous: Johnny did two big stints in jail. Not so generous: Chase's timeline got fucked up
The movie Saints of Newark they make Livia Tony's moms act, talk and look like Carmela.
Ig it makes sense Tony always did like girls that reminded him of his mom
This was very well put together. You just gained a like, comment and subscribe!
The discrepancy is between Tony’s memory and Christopher’s memory, since Chrissy was the narrator, so Many Saints was from his perspective.
Thats why Chrissy’s dad is much more attractive than pictures of him show.
Wow. I look at the movie so differently now. Especially the points about tonys ma, while she still was angry, she was the scapegoat. Excellent video
Thank you! Glad you liked it
I'm sure Tony's mom got way worse as time went on
I wonder how a movie sequel would be if Tony Sirico would have been alive detailing AJ’s rise to the top, considering now that we just saw that Tony acted somewhat like his son when he was young. AJ, Silvio(out of his coma), Paulie, Patsy, Paulie Jr., Benny Fazio, Dante "Buddha" Greco (Tony’s fat bald driver), Hesh, Artie Bucco, Terry Dordia, etc. Also, Carmine Jr., Butch and Albie Cianflone representing New York.
AJ could literally never be a boss. He’s not built like that
Although MSOW left way too many stories up in the air, I think that it is a great movie. David Chase is a master of the plot device known as a cliff hanger. I think we will see a lot of our unanswered questions explained in a further series that will probably pick up around the time Tony made his bones. David Chase has already stated as much in an interview about what he would like to do next as far as the sopranos cannon goes. He also signed a five year deal with HBO the day MSOW was released.
The Many Saints Of Newark is a good movie, because it’s setting us all up for something else, it seems disjointed, it feels incomplete, and it leaves many more questions than answers, and in that respect, it is a fantastic piece of film.
I don’t think that our questions will go unanswered for long.
And what happens if he doesn’t make something else? Were just supposed to live with it
I'm a massive fan of the series, but the movie was not good. 2ish hours was not even close to enough time to develop and properly conclude all the plots that were opened up. Most of Many Saints was nothing but fan service and dumb ways of tying in things that had no relevance to the series. The ages of the characters were messed up, and guys like Puss, Paulie, and Sil were all caricatures. Chase did this for money, nothing more.
@@Wayf4rer I agree -JACK
In Sopranos Home Movies, Janice said Johnny shot Livia's hair while Junior and his goomah were in the car. In the movie, it was Dickie and Joanne (I assume) in the car.
Tony also told Melfi that his father would've had his mom riding in the back seat...clearly she wasn't lol
That speaks alot considering junior is the one who had him whack, seems junior could have push dickies name to the ground so no one speaks about him anymore, literally tony and christopher are the only ones who talk about him too
If you don't know the word for mistress or girlfriend or side chick, just say mistress or girlfriend or side chick. Please don't write goomah. That's not a word.
@@misterguy2329 goomah
@@misterguy2329 slow ass acting like you aint watch the show????? Like they themselves don't say it. I'll have some of what you're taking
first video i've watched from your channel, great analysis, new subscriber earned
Thank you very much!
Wow!! Excellent analysis
Chase revealed the Tony was killed. Chase made young Tony like AJ. I think it's possible he did those two things to set up a sequel series to Sopranos. I think Chase finally answered the question because a sequel series would be about AJ after the death of his father. So it would be necessary to answer that question.
He said later that the hollywood reporter was bullshit and everyone took it all wrong.
In the end, tony ratted everyone for that sweet witness protection program and the life of Lefty Rosenthal, who was the FBI agent known as Achiles along with his dead wife.
Ok - Chase never said Tony was killed. I don't know why people keep making this statement. Chase simply said he had an idea for showing Tony's death at the end, which he later abandoned. He never said what we saw was Tony's death. He clarified as much during the Talking Sopranos podcast with Michael Imperioli and Steve Schirippia.
The final scene of the Sopranos is not Tony's definitive end. Frankly we don't know what happened after that scene. The point of that scene was not to show Tony's death but to show that Tony is forever going to be looking over his shoulder, terrified of everyone who comes across his path. He'll either go to jail, die, or live to fight another day until the same dilemma re-appears down the road in another form, with the same choices of go to jail, die, or live to fight again. And round and round the circle goes. He has given up any chance of betting better and has become a mindless villain who does not want to change. His family is totally corrupted by his lifestyle. His closest companions are either dead or alienated. His children have not stayed away from his circle though they aren't badly off either. Meadow has married an associate's son and will represent people like him. His son won't be a criminal but he'll be working in some low level position for a fellow mafiosi's film company. Tony is going to be doing the same thing he's been doing for the previous 5 seasons until another "live or die" situation comes up, starting the cycle again.
Basically, the point of the end is that Tony's growth is over. There's no real character change coming for him. His story will be more of the same. Therefore, there is no need for the audience to see the same shit over and over again. Hence the cut to black. It's Chase's way of saying "the story of Tony Soprano is over, nothing left to see, go home." The screen cutting to black is an artistic flourish on Chase's part, much like the video rewind of Tony in Season 3 episode where he meets Noah and Livia dies, or the episode it goes mute when Gerry Torciano is shot and his blood splatters on Silvio.
Excellent analysis!
Great work and research!!!
Great analysis.
"Johnny Was a Saint!"
😜
“Funny though I don’t remember you telling him that when he was alive”
Idk man. I think David chase not only just didn’t CARE about continuity in many saints but that he wasn’t originally even intending on this incident being the same incident. IE: this was never meant to be a sopranos film until late stages of development.
I took Tony running away from his mother as his first act of real difference as not having to listen to his mother because father was gone
great observation, the sacred and the propane
I didn't know Hank Hill watched Sopranos videos.
The skinny kid in flashback was just whatever in my opinion. He even stated when referring to his sis “she still thinks I’m that little fat kid” so he has no foggy memories about being skinny lol
Tony's reflection of his father from the show isn't warmer or more loving it shows him only spending time with Janice see he can do crime. Also his interaction with Olivia was perfect when he comes home in the show its how she normalizes the life his father lives.
Seems like Tony remembered better direction, writing, acting, etc.
I’m so incredibly happy that someone actually understands this movie.
Because you can understand -JACK
Movie was a fukin disgrace . End of fukin story.
This is pretty good 👍🏻 Also could you explain Tony age in the show and film cause on his HBO page and his driving license in Another Toothpick it says he was born in 1959 but in the movie it seems to be 1955 now cause if he was born in 59 that mean he would be 8-13 in the film but clearly he was much older by the end of the film cause he is now 16-17?. Could you try to use the same logic like this video to explain or could it be retconning/an oversight
The Sopranos was Marigot but the Many Saints of Newark was Cheese and White bread toasted on a prison radiator.
God how I hate compromises!
Chase wanted a series about the Newark Riots, he compromised and made a movie about the riots with Sopranos cameos
We wanted a real sopranos movie, we compromised.
the biggest difference is that in real life there was an ugly blue-green filter over everything
Awesome video topic. Great job
Really great analysis! But the movie still stunk to high heavens.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching
@@bullywhispers9544 what did you think of the movie itself?
@@Guz1316 I liked it, but I think they tried to accomplish too much in one movie.
Remember that Livia started the Dickie Moltisanti was an addict rumour
This is a great channel
Yelling at janice to take the bus made me die laughing
"Mr. MobBoss" had me fuckin dyin
Johnny was a SAINT ✝️
Yeah except this really doesnt work, unless you forget the many, many, many instances of Livia being exactly who Tony felt she was to him from third party exchanges she has with Carm, Meadow, AJ, Janice, Arty, Jr., etc.
This is a great theorycraft, but the show is clearly canon. Those werent Tony's perceived memories, those actually happened.
Exactly. David Chase just wanted to change shit to fit his old man writing... He created one of the greatest shows of all time (number 2 behind The Wire) and I give him respect... But he is losing it now
The movie is a piece of shit rhey did erverything wrong on it. From not hiring italian American actors to them doing imitations of the original actors. Its poorly directed poorley acted and badly written.
What do you think of the angle I outlined below. Your opinion is much appreciated. Keep up the great work!
I feel that Tony's personality and way of thinking when he began to see Dr. Karen Hill, is primarily molded from his time in the mafia. Not so much by any experiences prior to entering that life. Actually, I feel he uses his pre-mafia memories just to create and justify his actions in the mob. I also feel it happened unconsciously due to the high stresses of being a made guy and later a boss and the image he needs to present, and most of all stress of constantly trying to stay out of jail. The combination of those two high stress factors created the Tony Soprano we all know. I'm sure he most likely remembers everything perfectly, but choses to create a specific image of himself when he talks to Dr. Karen Hill, knowing that he has to take into concern the possibility that one day his mob family might find out he's speaking to a shrink, so just in case one of them decides to go looking for Karen and find out what he's been telling her, he's already planted the storyline that benefits him the most. The same goes for speaking in code to try and throw off the feds. Tony creates it all,almost innocently, all to stay out of jail.
He definitely uses that to justify his entry, he even told Melfi he had no choice, which wasn't the impression the movie left me with. At that point he would I think he would just be so used to lying that it would be subconscious and Pussy did say Tony remembers everything, so it would make sense. Thanks for watching!
Ooo, this is fascinating analysis, well done. Never considered that the inconsistencies might’ve been intentional
At the of the video he says "if you have any suggestions for the next video pleave lease them in the comments below".
Just wanted to point that out
awesome job
Clever video idea, nice stuff
The Dickie actor should have been tonys father. He looks so much like Gandolfini
He forgot his dad was the Punisher.
Wow, Tony's memory of his father was a whole different guy. He even looked different. 😂😂😂
I was honestly expecting his mom threatening to stick a fork in his eye in the movie 😂.
We can also just say that since the team that worked on the movie, that included the fucking original creator of the show didn’t re watch the show before making this movie is the reason why the scenes are differnt
Awesome! Love it 😀
The movie isn’t based in the reality of whatever really happened, the film is narrated by Christopher who is known for getting basic facts wrong
Christopher wasnt even alive when most of the movie is happening he doesnt know anything about what happened.
@@johnnyoldenjr. my point exactly, he doesn’t know what happened but he’s narrating the movie to us, think about it
It just makes less and less sense 😭
If my dad was Jon Bernthal, I'd remember that.
The punisher
Tony’s dad was a lot more handsome in reality
i liked the original Johnny from the TV show..he seemed vicious. the new guy did nothing for me and they did nothing to show his character development
It's called bad / inconsistent writing (film).
Yeah people will bend over backwards to defend this
I guess Tony fantasized that his dad was a bad-ass OG with old-school swag for days as opposed to the cardboard cutout so-called Johnny Boy we got in the movie.
Jonnyboy was great
@@JamesSmith-si7ts The first time you see his real rage in the Satriales scene, it's horrifying. The Rocco beating was heavy, but the way he just full punches Satriale (an elderly man) in the stomach and tells him 'Shutdafuckup!' is horrifying. You just know Johnny Boy was all smiles and jokes when Satriale was placing bets and asking for money. Johnny had compartmentalized violence to the point where cutting the old mans finger off was 'nothing personal'. But the wiseguy swag, "arrested da wrong guys!"/"We wuz at the Yankee game..." so fucking cool you can't hate the guy lol
Problem… upon closer inspection Many Saints of Newark is a dream based on Tony’s memories of growing up
Is anyone else impressed by the fact that Dickie is responsible for starting the Newark riots?
No, he didnt start it another white man did
In the movie Dickie tells the black cabbie to go the wrong way up a one way street. Dickie gets out of the cab. Cops then approach the cabbie and beat him. The fuse is lit.
Tony rmemebered his dad being more handsome and he that he played a minor part in the Newark civil rights movement being chased by black kids at the busstop. They were actually right to tell him to pick up his wrapper
Wow this is fascinating, i never thought like this..that is just a memory.. it's maybe weird what i am gonna saying, but if it's all a memory in down neck episode. You think tony misface how his parents looked like? And this the explanation why his parents seem nothing a like, from the show to the film.
Add something into real life as Sopranos Dr. Melfi when she dropped Tony would have been killed. Especially after for years she took his money then all of a sudden became feeling guilty about being his doctor...
Why would he kill a respected, innocent medical professional ? There would immediatly be an FBI investigation and once they found he was her patient ?!
Johnny was a saint
The Legend Of Tennessee Sopranos Street
Junior made tony that’s why he treated him like tony treated Christopher and steered him away from football
Great take! Is it just me or does Tony’s mom in the movie look like his wife in the series?
See this exactly why I said aj could eventually turn out like Tony the similarities is crazy
His dad was much more handsome in reality lmao
very good
I think it was more of Chase's memory.