Why Detroit Continues To LOSE Population: Eastside Hoods 5K.
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
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Detroit has continued to lose population for 7 decades now. There are many reasons as to why people continue to leave the city, and in this video I talk about one of the biggest reasons, which would be the high tax rate.
Intro: 0:00 - 0:42
48224 zip code neighborhoods: 0:42 - 4:18
Manta Sleep: 4:18 - 5:18
Hoods & Detroit's High Tax Rates: 5:18 - 18:11
Detroit's High Car Insurance Rates: 18:11 - 20:05
Harpos Concert Theatre: 20:05 - 20:45
Morningside Neighborhood: 20:45 - 23:16
Cornerstone Village Neighborhood: 23:16 - 24:48
East English Village Neighborhood: 24:48 - 27:56
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Intro: 0:00 - 0:42
48224 zip code neighborhoods: 0:42 - 4:18
Manta Sleep: 4:18 - 5:18
Hoods & Detroit's High Tax Rates: 5:18 - 18:11
Detroit's High Car Insurance Rates: 18:11 - 20:05
Harpos Concert Theatre: 20:05 - 20:45
Morningside Neighborhood: 20:45 - 23:16
Cornerstone Village Neighborhood: 23:16 - 24:48
East English Village Neighborhood: 24:48 - 27:56
====================================================================
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SD Cards: amzn.to/3C2co9O
Camera Mounts: amzn.to/2UXVR6p
Cables Required for Longer Recordings: amzn.to/3BYnr3Q
Computer: amzn.to/3787b2j
External Hard Drive: amzn.to/3lb23Tf
WHAT I USE AT HOME:
Computer: amzn.to/3rKIdiN
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Imagine if Google Maps Street View existed 60 or so years ago. We could take a virtual drive down these now abandoned streets and see what they were like when they were thriving.
That would be awesome.
On Twitter, Detroit Street View (or Vu) shows then-now views in Detroit. I hate Twitter but this and DHS is why I still have an account.
Nass videos
This area was "copper canyon" back in the '50s and '60s and WAS a very nice area. My aunt and uncle had a beautiful home on Lanark. Lots of city employees, cops, and firemen lived in this area and Denby WAS the premier high school. So sad to see it now. Put the houses in East English Village across the street in the Grosse Pointes and they are worth five times the value. Wonder why.
Yes BT, you are 100 percent correct, my dad was a Detroit policeman. I lived on Somerset between Morang and Moross. About 25 percent of my friends were either fireman or policeman kids. There was a rule that all police, fire, and some other city employees had to live in the city limits. That city rule was dropped back in 1999. I attended all three schools that Chris drove by in this video, Carleton, Arthur, and Denby. I left years ago. It has been a long slow decline of Detroit. Forty years ago, growing up there the area was nice. It is sad to see that was once nice areas look so horribly bad now. I remember playing at Lanark park (Sasser Playfield). Everyone called it Lanark Park. My paper route was Morang and Camley .
11:18 Liberal Democrat dictators will NEVER lower property taxes, bc they see the municipal government as a giant jobs machine for friends & relatives.
@@larroyo1973 to quote Ten Bears from “The Outlaw Josey Wales”: - “There is iron in your words….”
Copper Canyon is west (Warrendale) near Rouge/Dearborn.
I'd like to see you interview actual residents of these neighborhoods.
One thing that strikes me in most of the videos are the number of all brick houses. A quick Google look shows that about 56% of all homes in Detroit have brick exteriors. Many of the remaining homes that are in good or decent condition are brick. This also reflects that there was once wealth in Detroit since all brick construction is higher cost than other exterior finishes.
The last street you were on Yorkshire was where my cousins lived for 20 yrs. I loved the houses on that street! Glad to see that the street is looking better! 💕
I lived 4 blocks from Yorkshire.
Cheap cell phone stores, nail salons, liquor stores, dollar stores, check cashing places......it's always the same.
I grew up near Mack and Conner on Algonquin Street. The neighborhood was filled with drugs and gang violence and girls being raped while walking to school. I was so happy to leave Detroit about 8 years ago.
Congratulations
@@durango8882 I got out in 1979.
I got out in 1979.
@@billbuschgen520 👊🏼good. I don’t even bother visiting anymore.
High property taxes in Detroit is the equivalent of paying $15 for a stale McDonalds burger when you can get a fresh In&Out burger somewhere else for $8 bucks. BTW, where's the signature thumping Detroit "hood" music?
Too much to talk about in this video to play the music.
@@ChrisHarden True and you do a great job narrating both the good and the bad in your series. Maybe a lead in at the beginning with the signature sound and a coda at the end of your “hood” vids where appropriate.
Love these videos. High production quality and actual facts, things people are scared of nowadays.
Love watching your videos. Born in Detroit and lived here most of my life. EEV resident here. Was happy to see you drive past my house. Our block has residents looking out for one another because they care about their neighbors and own their own homes. You didn't mention the flood we had a year ago. I watched water flowing up out of the sewer drains. Water came up to the front porch steps on my house. Many people lost a lot of possessions in badly flooded basements and moved out. There's more about the flood aftermath but it can wait for another time.
It's always good to have people looking out for each other.
I remember that event. I remember reading that the older water and sewer systems in Detroit and also the older inner ring suburbs apparently did not separate storm water drainage systems from sewer, or that storm systems were inadequate during major rain events and caused backup into basement floor drains. I understand that a back flow preventer installed in a home could prevent that from happening but that some municipalities won’t allow it?
@@bondpit8750 I know from personal experience after the flood that FEMA is a joke. I feel so sorry for the people in East Palestine and points east where the toxic fumes are destroying businesses, homes, animals, and lives for people who pay their taxes to support these bureaucratic criminals. County and city are finger pointing. Does the state care? Does the FED care? STINKING traitors in office.
Yep. Detroit city property taxes add about 20-30% on top of a normal mortgage.
Would have loved to live in midtown or Brush Park but the taxes make no sense. Detroit is not LA.
Love your videos on Detroit. FYI, Tom Selleck lived on Lakepointe Street from 1945 to 1949 when his family moved to California. Lakepointe is in the 48224 zip code area.
Thank you, and nice! Knew that he was from Detroit but didn’t know where he lived in the city.
My ex, used to live near his aunt, in Trenton Mi long ago 😮 no lie
My folks had friends on Lakepointe, and we would go up from here in Alabama and spend a week at a time with them. Not a bad neighborhood in the 70's and early 80's
I grew up in 48215, on Chalmers, but it was in the area bordered by Gratiot, Moross, and Mack to the south. This is my my neighborhood, too. Went to Servite High School at Warren and Coplin.
I purchased my first home in 48224 in the Cadieux-Harper-Outer Drive corridor. I sold it just before the banking industry collapsed. I expected to be in it at least 5 years, but was able to sell in 4. I literally closed the door on the sale, before the crash.
Nice
Another informative video. I think you have the most comprehensive set of videos on Detroit.🎉
Thank you, Chris, these videos are top-notch! Lots of nostalgia and memories for people like me who grew up in these areas.
The Atlanta area also has trouble with the street racing. In the midst of the deterioration of the city, you often remind us of positive efforts being made and Detroit's proud history. I like the balance.
I hear that drag racing and closing off major streets is a thing in LA too, but the police in LA seem to be aggressive in breaking up those car meets… based off of the videos that I saw anyway.
@@ChrisHardenAtlanta is headed the same way. Sad to watch
You really capture the feel of these neighborhoods.
Thank you. I try
You forgot to also mention the high utility bill's especially with water and sewage. Places can go into foreclosure when utilities are shutoff and if someone buys that place they must first pay off any outstanding debts on that place to get them reinstated. Detroit went from having one the best water systems to one of the worst.
Don't banks own all these homes? I'm sure they have figured out how not to pay all these fees passed to blue collar folks.
The Detroit Water & Sewer System is still a great system and provides drinking water to the majority of suburbs where most of its actually customers live. That’s part of the reason that it is now owned and controlled by a Regional Water Authority consisting of Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. It had long been proposed but was finally instituted during Detroit’s bankruptcy. Regional control was also instituted over the Cobo Hall Convention Center, now Huntington Place, as well. At the same time, The State of Michigan took over the stewardship of Belle Isle, which had also declined under city control and established it as a Michigan State Park, restoring park facilities to their former glory. Also during the Detroit bankruptcy, the ownership of the Detroit Institute of Arts Museum, owned by the city at the time, was transferred to Detroit Institute of Arts, Inc., which returned the museum to its pre-1919 status as an independent non-profit. There was a great deal of resistance to all of these measures prior to the bankruptcy by city officials. I remember one Coleman Young legacy council member saying, “it may be broke but at least it ours.” Interestingly, the Detroit Water System once provided clean drinking water to the City of Flint, prior to their now infamous water crisis.
Very informative. Great video as always!
Thanks!
at 10:45 there a whole bunch of apartment buildings just boarded up, even those places are abandoned.
Great job, Chris! Great commentary.
Another great Detroit video, Chris! I really like how you post the street names. Helps me follow on Google maps.
So we "meet" again!
I lived kitty-corner from Denby, for about two years, before moving to a better "copper canyon" neighborhood on the far west side.
Good research.
thanks one more time sir, its great!!!
You need business in the area for the residents. Grocery stores, drug stores, etc. Dollar General, Family dollars are not the answer. Yes Myers opened on Jefferson, its a start. If I need to drive a distance for groceries, I my as well move to be near to what I need.
Great series
Chicken or the egg!
Thank you. That's what pulls people out too. And car insurance. Ugh. You need good brand stores because they sell food of quality.
There are a lot of different combinations of things that go into a decline like Detroit’s. From what I understand from family and friends who moved out of the city over the decades, no one wanted to send their kids to public schools even five decades ago. They sent their kids to schools attached to their church for the most part if they could by the 70s and 80s. Even earlier really. The problem with high taxes and bad schools is just that - if you make a middle class living and the schools are bad to the point where you want to send your kid to private school, but the taxes are so high (in part to pay for the bad public schools) that it becomes almost impossible to do that, it just makes sense to move to a lower tax suburb where you can send your kids to the public schools because they aren’t that bad.
Nostalgia can be a highly motivating factor in decision making but it will never overcome basic things like wanting your kid to get a good education in a safe environment. Nostalgia can get people to spend more than they would otherwise, but it won’t make them forget they love their kids.
Great video as always Chris. Your Detroit series is fascinating. I'm pretty sure that by watching these videos I'm getting a good look at what Milwaukee is going to look like in 10 years. Sad.
Hopefully not!
Having visited Milwaukee in the fall of 2018, it seemed to me that Milwaukee, while having some similar problems, has been more proactive in preserving important architectural gems and maintaining the downtown areas.
Nice Run !
I lived on Rossiter between Britain and Morang. Man, it was a solid neighborhood in 1978-80. Baseball player Ron Laflore lived a couple blocks away.
I wish I was as resourceful as you are as far as finding all of the socioeconomic data that you do, and knowing how to explain it all in comparison to other factors or places’ data. That sort of stuff is really beyond me. Number one, I have difficulty finding it in the first place. But number two, I just don’t understand it when I do find it. So I take your word on most of this simply because my brain just doesn’t seem to put two and two together with those sorts of things. I’m sure some of your data is just public record, and out there somewhere. But like I say, even if I were to find it, I’m not very good with socioeconomic analytics. If you just do this as a side project (which I’m pretty sure you do and have another main job), then I’m very impressed.
I always feel like I could do a better job honestly. I treat this like a job and I just make the best videos I know how to make
@@ChrisHarden Well you’re doing a great job in my opinion. I know essentially to most people your videos are just POV driving videos, but I went to school for and worked in television for 18 years, and your research seems really solid. I grew up in Michigan, but have lived in the Orlando metro area for over 24 years now, and I don’t feel like I know nearly as much socioeconomic facts about this area as you do the Detroit metro area. Or some others for that matter. I obviously know basics and generalities about where I live for sure. But I think some of those aren’t actual facts. They’re just assumptions that this area is good or this one is bad that have been local knowledge or even rumor. At any rate, always rooting for Detroit and keep up the good work.
You sound like the kind of person who would buy crypto and NFTs.
After seeing videos on Detroit over the years I am convinced the city leaders are building a "new" Detroit from mid city into downtown. The taxes even with special deals will be a ton of money coupled with their plan to suck up Canadian money by building them a new bridge to take them right into downtown. Neighborhoods like those shown today are left out of the loop purposely. With some moving and others from back in the day dying the area becomes more and more sparse until it is nearly all greenbelt. City services will then be shut down on areas with hardly any people left, saving the city those expenses. The population will stabilize at about 600,000 with the majority living in around and near downtown.
I agree with your speculation. Don’t see the suburbs crumbling ala Detroit - that is the only way there would ever be an uptick in Detroit population.
I believe there are people that WANT the city to be smaller, for some reason. I believe they want it well below 600k.
I wonder if they are going to 'adjust' the city limits too.
Lolol ok move there😂
Went to HS in Warren, used to own a Mexican restaurant on Mack & Alter in GP Farms. Haven't been back to Michigan in 44+ years and have a 50th HS reunion coming. Thanks for showing me reasons to NOT go.
I wonder what the High School drop out rate is.
My brother is a teacher at Wayne State University he says the property taxes are in sane $3800 dollars and up per year. Its one of the highest in the country.
I was born/raised in the city of Detroit, I have lived in two suburbs which was the city of Utica/St.clair Shores and I now live in the state of GA, to me the state of Michigan is very suppressing and Detroit is depressing.
It's turning around from Detroit city center and midtown.
Needs a solid 5-10 more years before it will really change most people's minds though.
City taxes is one of the biggest issues for people looking to move there right now.
As a resident of Dekalb County, Georgia I've encountered TONS of Detroit and Michigan people. I've definitely noticed almost a reverse Great Migration with black people coming back to the South in large numbers from places like Detroit and NYC. I used to live in Brooklyn and it seems like tons of people from there and Queens are in ATL now too!!
@@stephenbrand5661 that's because it costs too much to live in Detroit unless you are making $200k+ a year.
Secondly, as many of those families struggled to stay together and healthy (if they had parents) they suddenly are in a position where they have no roots there either.
Why would anyone stay there at that point?
What you've done is soooooo common. Haha. I remember hearing folks who went the exact same route:moved out the city to suburbs. Then a few years go by they move put the whole state. Things like this are why there's still a brain drain.
@@mrbananaman8032 Same reason most people live in any awful place, they're too poor to even move.
good vid
Thanks!
3:20
That's the high school my dad went to. 😊
Denby class of '65
I grew up in the Eastside. Left in 85, It was a nice area. "Was".
I went to Denby, graduated in1974. I enjoyed it. Nice kids. I hopped the bus from 6 & VanDyke.
This video is great. I am reminded of how Chicago's mayor declared property tax hikes would be linked to inflation rates. Which means they will go up at least 8% this year. She says it is for the pensions!
Detroit is an iconic city. It was destroyed by bad politicians. Same w St. Louis! High crime , horrible schools and in st Louis’ case a 1% earnings tax if u work in the city. Nothing there would attract any major employer! Great videos ty!
Yes. The ones who actually run the city is who messed it up. Same with the state.
Smh
Wake up. It was destroyed by commie left policies in 1960s and ghetto black majority . Ruin any areas fast.
New Subscriber
these neighborhoods don't look so bad, we have suburbs by me in the western burbs of Chicago which look pretty identical, but of course the crime comes out at night :(
Denby was placed on the register in 2005. It will likely never be torn down. Although it was my neighborhood high school, I didn't attend school there. When I was in elementary school in the 70s, this area was sprawling.
Kwame also cost the city millions lawsuits in his text message scandal/whistleblower case.
It's really a tragedy to see the city in this condition. I was looking to the suburbs as well, but when my mom's former colleague Dennis W. Archer decided to throw his hat in the ring for mayor, I couldn't help but put those plans on hold. But after two terms, Archer declined to run desiring to spend more time with his family. I lost hope after his term completed. I had just purchased my home but counted the days until I could sell without penalty.
Detroit once had a residency requirement for public servants, this included police officers. But during the late 1990s Governor John Engler revoked that requirement. In doing so, city employees bolted to the suburbs leaving Detroit without the security of it's off duty forces, and some of the most affluent areas of Detroit without residents who could afford the properties they vacated.
Fun fact, several radio/tv personalities graduated from Denby: Jerry Hodak, Bill Bonds, Kim Carson, and Donnie Simpson.
how miles do have on your car????? good job 🚙🚙🚙
Hey Chris, can you bring back the old intro music from "Nostalgia Tours"? I'm not saying you should change the name of channel. I'm only asking about bringing back the intro music. K thanks.
I inspect houses and commercial buildings in Detroit. It is coming back strong. I don't recognize downtown anymore. So many new buildings, so many people. But yes, there is a lot of bad areas as well. I lived in Detroit for 32 years before moving to the burbs.
🤣I grew up on Eastside it blows and dangerous. I left and never looked back.
Do you have a Grosse Pointe(s) video? :)
Mayor Duggan's contention is founded on a U of M and Wayne State study that looked at a random sampling of 2020 Census results in poor neighborhoods and found an 8% undercount. Also the Census reported 254,000 occupied households but the city collects electric bill payments from about 280,000. Either way the decline was a lot less than it has been and seems to be leveling off. I think people tend to forget that Wayne County actually grew over the last 10 years and still has a relatively huge population.
I tend to lean on the census providing the most accurate information that we have.
Census shows that Wayne County saw a population loss over the last 10 years, a slight loss at that.
Metro Detroit grew overall, (Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Lapeer, St. Clair and Livingston) but not by much.
@@ChrisHarden Yeah you're right Wayne County did lose about 30,000 or so on the decade. The problem with the census in a place like Detroit is that you're always going to have a bigger under count than you would in a less poverty stricken place. After the 1990 Census showed the city dropping under 1,000,000 Coleman Young successfully appealed the count and a revised one put the city at like 1.1 million. The 2020 Census was the first time that Detroit didn't even get its own census office and the count was cut short a month on top of all the other pandemic related stuff. The city's immigrant populations also happen to be ones that are notoriously hard to count. I don't think the city's appeal this time is gonna be any more successful than Dave Bing's was but those extra 25,000 households paying electric bills would be the most persuasive piece of evidence to me. Then again Detroit could just be bad at counting those numbers too who knows.
@@ChrisHarden The non-Detroit parts of Wayne County grew, that's what I should've said. And apparently most of the county's population is actually outside of the Detroit city limits. 1.7 million is still impressive to me though, Atlanta's Fulton County only passed a million in this most recent census.
When one group appears suddenly the other groups leave. Hmmmm
Another fact that you didn't touch on is the income tax that Detroit charges. Detroit charges residents a 2.4% income tax and non-residents a 1.2% interest rate. So even if you do have a nice paying job in the city there's a 1.2% reason to move out into the suburbs.
10:20 two different renderings for the same tower?! One is an inspiring tall building that Narrows towards the top, the other looks like a downsized version with a simple typical boxy Tower. Anyone want to guess which version gets built?
Saw MileageMike’s upload of downtown Memphis and couldn’t believe all the speed bumps that city has downtown!! Would drive me KRAZY!! But I’m sure it’s for the same reasons haha
By the year 2030, the population of Detroit still decline to below 600,000, and it is no longer Top 30 largest cities of the USA, by overtaking by Albuquerque New Mexico, Las Vegas Nevada, Seattle Washington, Charlotte North Carolina, and Columbus Ohio.
19:00 hilariously, your car insurance rates in the suburbs of Detroit are not much cheaper than they are in the city, until you get like 25+ miles out. The entire metro area pays way over average in car insurance simply for being in proximity to Detroit city proper area codes.
It’s actually a state of Michigan thing where the state implies no fault insurance. Being in the city limits of Detroit adds an extra layer for the reasons I described. It’s definitely cheaper in most suburbs, inner ring or not. (considering that you don’t have too many points on your license.)
All those vacant lots, used to be houses.
How to buy C. Harden video of Detroit
Can anyone stop the crime ???
Not possible.
There's a video on CZcams called Army Rangers vs Crips. That's probably the only way
Lived in Detroit from 1969 to 1987. Iam glad I moved to Washington state. Iam glad I got my childern out of Detroit. I think their chance of being productive citizens would may have been decreased. Not saying there are no productive citizens living there because I still have friends there.
4th..Love your stuff
Hard to believe this is a part of Detroit, but some sections ate very nice still
I did my thesis on this very subject. It was a collaboration of urban planning and human services in Hopes of reviving Detroit. My main goal was to shrink the city from the acreage that once housed 1.8 million people, reduce the services to those smaller city limits, and return the rest to prairie or community gardens and tree farms, or a rather more ecological approach. I had a secret dream to be the mayor of Detroit one day.
Yes i can see that's just what some tried to do. They're probably happy population shrink and how the Eastside is going "prairie" seemingly again. Ugh
If Michigan found a way for municipalities with the same tax rate to have the same funding level there wouldn't be the same pressure for poorer places to have higher tax rates.
Seems to me if you can buy a house for 30k, even if the tax rate is a bit higher you're still paying a relative small fee.
Whitmer has Detroit looking great! Good Job Gretchen!
This is sarcasm
“Can’t own shit in Detroit , Not even shit”
Detroitian
Weird that the Cavaliers' owner is a Detroiter.
Haha right?
@@ChrisHarden Wait until you do Cleveland. Did you know the creators of Superman are from one of Cleveland's most dangerous neighborhoods?
Oh yeah, I was amazed at the city tax thing! I was like, what so you charge people who live and work in detroit double the amount? Yeah thats why no one lives here! TBH I'm looking for a house on the east side, but in the suburbs. I have a close friend that lives in Grosse point woods. Yeah I work for Xerox but I take care of the fleet of printers for Huntington Bank, and yes I'll be at Huntington tower downtown! LOL
hmm starting up my channel I should have you on to talk about that history of Detroit corruptions! *it's a history style channel!"
The taxes in GPW are pretty high. Look at St Clair Shores.
@@TheVikingblonde Yup that is where I'm looking! I just have a friend that lives there, I have no reason to move to GPW. He has kids the only reasons he's there.
@@Stasisofseasons Harrison Twp is good too. I live there & commute downtown.
We need more people talking about positive changes that should come to Detroit. Not more hatred imo.
This channel does a good job of setting the reality baseline of today but isn't succinct enough to make change by itself.
I would live in Detroit if the damn tax was not so high.
I think that there are a lot of people that would give Detroit a shot if that were the case. Honestly.
No fuggin way. I left. It blows.
This city really reminds me of The Last of Us.
The population of the state or city rose for the first time since 1957.
Can't come back without employment real employment can't hold up a house hold with a teens wages
You can’t get decent wages without commiserate skills, and it’s hard to acquire the necessary skills without mastering the basic 3r’s. The school system and many parents have come up short in that regard and the so called “urban” culture is also part of the problem. There is no one size fits all solution. However, currently there are some well intended programs under Mayor Duggan that are not only providing training but also offering transportation and income support while learning in-demand job skills. We’ll see how it pans out long term but I think it’s a good start.
Think of how much the city has to spend maintaing infrastructute in all these abandoned blocks. Time to trim the fat detroit. Buyout and raze.
You have guts to drive here.
1130 am on a Sunday morning in February is quiet everywhere.
I grew up in Detoilet. Lived between East Warren and Harper. Boarded up, beat up, dangerous. I left, never looked back. Robbed, stolen cars, breakins, assaults. Have fun 48224 👎🏻
Ahhhhhh, Detoliet......
Im finishing college in Michigan and leaving. Been here my whole life, Detroit is a dead city.
Lived in the inner city of Detroit. Not on the East side though, only visited East Detroit to see people I know. East side looks way more run down, not saying the West side was good because it's just as run down.
No.
Detroit's East Side has far fewer "premium" neighborhoods in comparison to most neighborhoods in the northwest side of of the city.
NW Detroit has square miles of neighborhoods with few "ghettos".
The rest of the city has few high-income neighborhoods, and those neighborhoods are often two or three streets wide (e.g. Indian Village or Dwight).
Well Chris, to answer your question the fine folks of Detroit are now working on the nearby suburbs to systematically destroy.
Because it sucks.
No way Im coming back to Detroit!
You'll be driving through the suburbs in a few years showing how they're being devastated. You really don't address the REAL REASON.
Dang teens causing issues
Like crime rate, high taxes, corruption and inability to attract business.
It loses population because there are no jobs, same as any other deindustrialised city.
👨🏿🦱
When I travel US 2 to visit my brother in Washington state, I get off I 75 @ I 475, go north on 475 & US 23. I get back on 75 near Flint. I won't go near Detroit for ANY reason!!
Im suprised NH isnt highet for uninsured drivers. In NH its not required. Thats right folks, in NH you can drive without insurance. Live Free Or Die!
Well I've lived in this area my entire life
(25 years) and I'm a little confused when you bring up grosse pointe and Harper woods because these aren't part of Detroit. I'm sure you know that they are their own cities. Grosse pointe farms, grosse pointe woods, grosse pointe and gross point park are all individual cities and are the suburbs of the D. It's not Detroit though.
I'm not sure if you're from this area or not but I'm just confused. Lol then you say it's not abandoned like other parts of the city, probably because it's not part of the city lol I don't mean to be that guy but what you're saying is kind of confusing.
How are you confused? I clearly say that they are individual cities. Lol.
Thanks for demonstrating the mental acuity and general sharpness of Detroiters. Explains the problem in droves.
I'm very sorry to say that Detroit use to be an awesome city for everybody. White people black people Spanish people as well as others did very well when we were making bad ass cars. But now the They sold their own selves out basically. All you have to do is look at every democratic city. Usually there will include a ghetto in a Democrat city. Not like the Republicans are angels I'm just saying. Take I good look everywhere. And u will see wht I'm taking about