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female loneliness and the catch-up friendship crisis
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- čas přidán 30. 04. 2024
- Catch-up friendships, COVID loneliness, selfish "boundaries", and mental health - are women going through a friendship crisis? And if we are, how can we find our way out again? Thanks to Book of the Month for sponsoring the video! Use code PETALS at: www.bookofthemonth.com/?... to get your first book for just $5.
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As an autistic person living in a shitty household that loneliness will drive you crazy, and then when you try to make friends and struggle socially it’s a vicious cycle
I recommend seeking out other weirdos and nerds, and if that doesn't work you could turn to online spaces. Nerds tend to be more accepting of autistic people because being overly passionate about your interests is normalized, and there's a lot of neurodivergent overlap there too. A D&D group was a great way for me to make friends in High School and college, even if they were more into the game than me. If that doesn't work my autistic bf met his best friend through a video game. Youll find your people eventually ❤
I've had similar struggles. I found it's sometimes easier to make friends online since you can more readily interact with people online. (Though I'm saying this as someone who has also lost a lot of friends, just to add this caveat.) I've found that autistic people more readily make friends with other autistic people. Before I was even diagnosed as an older adult, I realized everyone in my friends group is also autistic. There's less of a communication barrier, and a high likelihood of sharing special interests, which is a good foundation for any friendship.
Yes! I always wonder how not knowing I was autistic and therefore not having any friends in school with no idea why has maybe permanently messed me up.
Making more autistic/self-reliant friends has been a major improvement to my social life. So much less exhausting to have people you can unmask around / be honest with about your needs. And they do not need me to constantly remind them that I love them, BUT at the same time we always pick up right where we left off. The debriefing is so short-lived that we can get right into the fun or deeper stuff. So... I highly suggest finding other neurodivergent / self-reliant folks!
Hi! This is me! Im slightly going insane! Im also admitting to myself i have agoraphobia so I litterally just cant lol
"men and women can be friends if they aren't fuckin weird about it"
I have never felt more validated in my life.
No cause as a man, my deepest and most cherished friendship is with a woman. Being gay and her in a very serious relationship, romance simply isn't an option but even so, people get so fucking wierd about and and it's so frustrating. While I'm not going to pretend to know other people's intentions, I can't help but think racism plays a part with how they react to their misconceptions. Like please Karen don't use racism to cover up the fact that you're jealous of how pretty she is 😒
in my experience as a reasonably attractive woman: men will never chose to be your friend if they can sleep with you. you’d be in shock how many of ur male friends would accept the opportunity,or start changing their behavior when you tell them that’s not what you want. sucks bc i personally find male friendships easier
@@sierrasmith8722 This has not been my experience at all. How are you finding this out, anyway?
Yes! One of my closest friends rn is a guy and i literally don’t even think about it 99% of the time. If you don’t make it weird and hyperfocus on gender, it’s fine
@@sierrasmith8722 I have one guy friend who asked me out not long after we met, but I gave him a clear and certain “no I’d like to stay friends” and he never once pushed the subject and now he happily has a gf and we are still friends. Im sorry you’ve had some shallow men in your circles, and I wish you luck finding ones that are mature and respectful people who don’t hyperfocus on gender
My old friend group started a thing called "friendship dinners" that was literally just... a dinner party, we revived dinner parties 😂. We'd take turns being the one to cook, and the whoever's place we gathered at didn't correlate with who's turn it was to cook, we'd just get all up in each other's kitchens. So then it wasn't just arriving to an already prepared meal, we'd gather together and THEN cook, chatting and doing dumb shit in the kitchen while it was a designated person's job to actually focus on making food.
My friends and I do queer dinner! We're way overdue for another
For my birthday last month, I cooked dinner in a friend’s kitchen and 2 more friends came over (they brought dessert). It was one of the best evenings I’ve had in several years 💕
That sounds fun!
that’s awesome
Most people do this. In grad school, my whole class did this after every exam
I think way more women experience loneliness than is reported or talked about and it hits harder because we are always told by society it's so easy for us to make friends. Implying if we can't snap our fingers and have a sorority's worth of female friends and a boyfriend then we are defective.
Its more that women will be taken a lot more seriously in therapy and so will get more help
@@draalttom844 thats not true. I dont know one women whos had that experience
@draalttom844 not to mention that not everyone goes to therapy or can afford it? another expectation of women
@katc2040 you must not know many women. Just know that you get laughed at by psy, but psy listen first and that's a hell of a privilege
Oh my mom would rant at me daily for almost two full years until I was crying uncontrollably for me not having a huge friend group I was with daily and not having a boyfriend the way she wanted me to have a boyfriend
I feel I've been so stuck with catch-up friendships for so long I don't even know how to connect on a deep level anymore
That's why I feel like a society built on human needs would allow people to establish and maintain robust meaningful connections with more people a system that commodifies human time and labor guarantees alienation and less time to invest in relationships
I think a big issue is the lack of forming new stories. With a catch up friend you sit down and you tell them stories about your life outside of the relationship, and they do the same with you. You are connecting them to other things in your life, not to an internal aspect of you.
Imagine instead of sitting down for coffee you instead go and _do_ something? Maybe a museum or a concert or take a pottery class together? Now you have a subject to discuss and share and connect over.
My experience with catch up friends is often that you "catch up" because that's all you have to talk about. If you both couldn't talk about family and work and all that, what would you talk about? Politics, books, emotional challenges? Or would there be dead air? Maybe it's worth saying to a catch-up friend, instead of the usual topics, let's talk about different things, or do something together.
Just a thought.
I have to do it daily or a few times a week via text with a friend. It was the only way to break the cycle for us.
@@CorwinFound Won’t you just end up with activity friends, which is the same thing in a different font? I have some we play board games together and another for painting classes - but then our friendship is defined by that thing we do and that part of myself and them without expanding to other areas of life. Suggesting we do something different with them gets me a “no, thanks” 🥺
It’s only slightly different from catch-up friends, yet still unfulfilling and it doesn’t feel like a full friendship
@@ChangesOfTomorrow this. I have both catch up friends and activity friends, and they both feel just as superficial. The trouble with the latter is I live in an expensive city, so these activities often cost a lot and I can’t afford to do them on a regular basis. I used to hate talking on the phone when I was younger but now find myself wishing my friends were more open to it.
I definitely feel like loneliness is becoming more prominent in my twenties, especially as people pair off more permanently, but there's definitely been a decline in my health as I've gone on
yo me too
A phenomenon I've noticed is that a lot of people pair up and still socialise e.g. go out to dinner, see bands, get together for barbecues... but only with other couples?
i hope that sometime soon you find someone really cool to hang out with and they like you a lot
@@_allegra aaabsolutely, I second that and I think generally this underlines her point of that priority where partnerships and family are seen inherently more important than friendship. People meet with people that are also in a partnership and forming a new family, because that because of those priorities, they tend to talk about these topics. (And also because of capitalism, if you work and have a family, you have extremely littke time for anything else) They talk about married/partnership life, plans for children (or not), building or buying houses or not being able to. As a single woman, I've got nothing really to say in those rounds of partnerships, and they aren't interested in my hobby talks. I have one group where there they first have a big round of family and kids talk, i listen to their experiences , and then one of two (female) friends mostly pulls a break and sais "ok enough family talk, what about (my name)?" And then they listen to how my life looks like and often we come to a point where we share what we miss. That they actually miss the freedom, flexibility, friends, hobbys which is definitely smaller now as a family in capitalism, and I talk about being lonely and kinda left out without a partner. But on the other hand, i have no contact with my brother anymore because what you described happened. Only couples nights, only couples nights and I didn't wanna be there and they didn't want me there and there was no ground to talk or change things. So yeah.
I think this whole business-meeting-style of how we do friendships and the priorities lead to married ppl and family to not have time or Energy for friends, especially those friends who require more empathy and energy (instead of just relating bc you have the same experiences daily instead of actively trying to understand), which seems to be a force driving single and married friends more distant. I hate it. 🥹 Because obviously I love those people and mostly i really like their partners, but it's really hard work to keep those friendships.
@@_allegra OOOOF YES. My best friend still tries to include me in her plans, and i sometimes join in, but I just feel like the odd one out being the only single person in the group. It's uncomfortable and not because I dislike being single (I love it, I think I'm not ready for any commitment at all), but because the dynamics are SO different.
Two years ago I went through a friendship breakup and it completely changed how I interact with EVERY relationship in my life. Now I'm very intentional with the labels I give people (even if I don't tell them) and have learned what boundaries actually are, let alone utilizing them.
I went from having literally 0 friends, to now having all kinds, and it only took about a year of doing all this intentionally. Now I'm working on vulnerability, and learning the difference between trauma dumping vs. just being honest and sharing with the people who care for me and want to help
I'm curious about your system, but understand if it would be too much work to lay it out here!
@@PasCorrect not at all, though it may be long ! 😹
It's not a hard and fast ruling, more like a guide for myself so I, at least, know where I stand in my relationships. Because I have autism and take things very literally. So before I came up with this system, if someone said, "you're my friend," even only knowing each other two minutes, I would take that sincerely.
Anyway, the most important question I ask myself, "do I like this person?" If not, they'll never be anything more than an acquaintance, at least until I realize I do like them because you never know. Then I ask, "does this person like me?" It seems difficult to answer that one, but it's actually really easy because you know in your gut/soul if someone genuinely enjoys your company when you're together.
Next I ask, "how much time do we spend together?" Because I have good friends that I don't see very much, so I wouldn't consider them best friends. But I really like them and they really like me. But time spent together is very important to me, so while they're a good friend, they're not a "best" friend.
Then I pay attention to acts of service. Because while the actual theory of the "5 Love Languages" is bullsh*t, it's still helpful to understanding your friendships, and that's the most important to me of the basic 5. Basically, if someone's words don't match their actions, they stay in "acquaintance" territory. But, if someone does kind things for me without saying anything about it, they get bumped up real high as soon as I find out about it. For instance, there was this one guy I literally only had two conversations with at open mic, but in one of them I found out he knew my producer. Well, I had a show in Dec but didn't mention it to my producer because I knew he wouldn't be able to come because he hosts karaoke at the same time. But without even knowing the extent of my relationship with my producer - just that we knew each other - the (now) friend invited him to my show ! And I don't even think they talk to each other that often, if at all anymore. It was so sweet 😊 so small but so appreciated, especially since I barely knew this guy at the time.
After that, it's pretty much just vibes. None of these - except for the liking each other bit - are hard and fast rules, moreso guidelines. They're meant for me to understand where our relationship is currently at and be satisfied with it, NOT for me to try and push someone into a category they don't belong. So if I really like someone but we don't spend time together yet they hang out more with others, instead of being jealous, I just note where our relationship is at, try to spend more time, but if we can't, then that's okay, too. Especially since there are (now) other people I can spend that time with, or go spend some time by myself !
It's also not foolproof. I had a friendship breakup recently with someone I was saying we were best friends and that I loved her. She said it all back only because I was saying it (because I told her about my system). But she was just using me and manipulating me. I knew it but wasn't fully ready to accept it, so that really hurt when I did finally accept it.
However, now I have this support system, so it doesn't affect my overall life as much as the last one did. And I'm able to still like myself even if I don't like her anymore.
Anyway, I hope this was helpful in some way ! 🤗
This is really helpful! Thank you
Do you have advice on how to meet / make more friends? (it's ok if not)
I'm queer / ND / lefty which can make it harder
@@izzymika8825 I live in Seattle, so this may be way easier for me depending if you're in a small town vs. large city, but:
I started going out to the same open mic pretty much every week. My anxiety was REALLY bad at the time, so I would take some weeks off. But you just find something you love that other people love to do as well, and try to be consistent with it. Everyone is shy, so the more they recognize you, the more likely people are to come up and say hi. It's scary as shit, but gets so much easier the more relationships you develop
While it's difficult to find true third spaces because everything costs money now, I'd give the advice to try and find/build as close to a third space for yourself as you can get. It's difficult as shit when you have mental health/physical health stuff getting in the way, but consistency is 🗝️
@@n.j.5044 that makes sense! I'm in a city too so that part is ok
Showing up for a consistent activity or event in a consistent space / group makes sense and is also friendlier to my ND brain lol
Pacing yourself when needed is smart too
Thank you! I'm glad your friend stuff has gotten so much better c: gonna try this kind of thing also
This is why your spouse gets jealous whenever you have any emotional connection to anyone else. They automatically view emotional intimacy as sexual and romantic, rather than something that of friendship.
this blew my mind ngl
Another reason why English speaking places, especially America, are touch starved
Don't think you can’t get better or don’t deserve better by waving it off as a cultural problem… That little trust shouldn’t be happening with your SPOUSE
Emotional intimacy is deeply related to romantic intimacy, so it's a very obvious connection.
Monogamous relationship are defined by the clear condition of exclusivity, and you have to discuss what that includes.
I 100% won't want my female partner to have any sort of intimate relationship with any other of age male human that she isn't related to.
It's a perfectly reasonable and commom condition. If you don't like that condition, I guess you have to settle with a minority of men, or emotionally abuse vulnerable men like so many woman choose to do.
I can't tell you how often I've seen woman purposefully leading other men on while they were in relationships. It happened to me MULTIPLE times that girlfriends of good friends would make comments in that direction, so it's only natural for me to make it clear that I don't tolerate that kind of relationship, because I do not want to be abused or hurt, and this way I can very easily filter out woman who are likely to do that.
They are so sick, sometimes they got jealous OVER SIBLINGS
Something you didn't mention is the factor of motherhood. I don't have kids but almost all my friends do now. They are constantly busy. A once-a-month catch-up seems all that is possible. I confronted one of my friends about it recently and she said she is much more comfortable with other mothers. Not just because they understand the struggles but the kids can play with each other instead of constantly demanding mum's attention. And I get it, but it makes me so sad and lonely sometimes
maybe you can also try to organize that your friends start to hang out all together like suggested in the video, and then if multiple ppl bring their kids they can occupy themselves and you still get ti talk to them
it can be very hard to organize time without kids but if they can bring them along I'm sure that they will be able to meet up more often
Why do you want to spend your time with mothers? They are boring and can’t go anywhere! Find other single childfree friends
@@mousestripedgrass2123what type of childfree adult wants a ruined evening out with other’ s people children?
she did mention that though, she talked about friends being in different life stages, like having kids.....
@@FoundSheep-AN Maybe the type of childfree adult who loves and cares about a person who is a parent? Jesus Christ. Also hello, not all children are monsters.
I saw a post on a different social media app where a younger adult (20s I think) was talking with one of their elderly neighbors, and the elderly neighbor commented on how younger adults always have their blinds shut and rarely meet the neighborhood, but back in the day, everyone had their blinds open and not greeting a neighbor was seen as offensive. The younger adult told the neighbor that she thinks it’s because the younger generations feel like they have no privacy and are always being watched with the internet, so they close their blinds to get some privacy.
Whenever stuff like this video pops up on my feed, I always think about that post.
Yeah I mean kids used to literally play on the street together! Also the blinds things is so interesting, theres a mystery novel from 1960sish where a detective complains no one sits and watches the street anymore so he cant ask if they saw anything😅
@@sophiabreidfischer6242 Huh, interesting!
Not gonna lie, this feels like blaming zoomers for Reagan and Thatcher
In grandmas day people formed communities. You knew your neighbour, walked to school or took the school bus, played in the streets, had neighbourhood cook outs, went to church, pta meeting, ext. Now people are so "busy", which is really netflixing, being on your phone, and self-isolating distractions. Then crying because they have no friends
Oh also people were less likely to join toxic "I am so oppressed" clubs.
Neighborhoods aren't walkable anymore. There are no sidewalks and everything is too spread out. Because of this, people have to drive to go places. No one is going to waste time and gas going anywhere unless they have a reason to be there, so they make friends with the people at those locations, not in their neighborhoods.
Not to mention the fact that if you open your blinds, then police can legally look in your house and take action if they see anything suspicious. It also makes it easier for thieves to see if you've got anything good, too. And who wants the neighbors to see them vacuuming without a bra? With everyone walking around with HD cameras on their phones, cars, and doorbells, you never know when some silly thing that happens in your house will go viral.
In my 20's I didnt really have friends. I, like my parents, just didnt hang with people. Didnt have people over. I worked and then went home. Life was boring, long and lonely. In my 30s I joined a tai chi class, slowly over time I got to know the people in class. 2 years later and we started going for coffee after class, which turned into going for dinner, which turned into organising meetups on non-class days. And now (8 years later) I have an amazing group of friends, most are a lot older than me. But they are all amazing, and so fun to spend time with. Sometimes we go to shows, sometimes its a movie or dinner or games night, or a weekend away (even a baking evening). I feel so much joy at having these people in my life. And they have impacted my life in positive ways (i drink tea now!).
Joining a class was scary. But i am so glad I went, and kept going.
That's so lovely, good for you!
i tend to get along so much better with people who are older than me, idk why. i’ve always had friends significantly older than me throughout my life 😂 i struggle to make friends my age. i find older people are slightly less judgmental of my autistic tendencies, and they attribute a lot of my weirdness to generational differences
@@coolchameleon21same here. (I'm not diagnosed ND but probably am. Unless it's just a trauma thing idk) I find this is sometimes also true when making friends with first and second-generation immigrants. They also feel "othered" and so you can bond over that, and they take your differences in stride because there are already cultural differences!
The fact that it take so long is what kills me. Will I have to wait almost a decade for deep friendship?
@familysystem no I don't think so. It does take time to get to know people. It didnt take nearly a decade to make friends, we were friendly from the get go. It took time to be comfortable with each other. Took time to visit each of our houses for games nights, took time to celebrate birthdays and Christmas. It also took so long because I was so standoffish 😅
> *hears "six elements of friendship"*
> *disappointed it's not about ponies*
so real
Pfp checks out
Same.
SO REAL LMAO
ponies are so obvious that you don't need to mention them explicitly.
My parents were terrible and kept me completely isolated in homeschooling my entire childhood. I also happen to be autistic, only found that out recently though. My biggest stumbling block to making female friends is the apparent requirement to have friends already in order to make new ones. They assume that everybody else has rejected me, so they'd be wise to reject me too. This is just a PSA to everyone who looks down on people like me: loners aren't ALWAYS toxic people. Sometimes they really are just victims of circumstance.
I feel for you! Also a former homeschool kid, with isolated parents, and yeah I felt I had missed that first bus of friendship, and even though I made some friends later on, they all had friends from former stages of their lives. It takes quite a bit of time to catch up... Take care!
This. I was also extremely isolated as a child and now have cPTSD. I’ve always tried to make friends, but for some reason or another, I’m just never what they want and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. It’s so, so lonely. 💔
100% feel that.
Temple Grandin said (and I agree) that for autistic people, having an activity or special interest in common with others, is a way to start friendships. That rhis works beyter for autistics than the usual pattetn
Being the victim of toxic abuse will make you a loner through no fault of your own, faster than anything else. As a child abuse survivor, I wish more people knew this.
i LITERALLY cried to my therapist abt this entire topic relating to myself today lmao
And wtf did that accomplish besides enriching them of $200 dollars for an hour of at best doing nothing?
@jaumartinez9006, you are aware that you can see a therapist for a myriad of reasons for a prolonged period of time, right? You don't have to believe that therapy is helpful but for a lot of people they help tremendously. Especially regarding issues that friends or families simply can't help with
*virtual hug*
@@davidcrawford9026Some people process things through talking about them, and having a therapist helps because they can often give you both comfort and solutions. Not to mention, not all therapists are that expensive and the person may have been seeing this therapist for other issues and this was just one of them.
You’re so quick to judge, but you fail to take the time to realize that people often don’t share everything online and there are multiple reasons the person saw the therapist.
Yeah… In my case I accepted it and I feel good being by myself. But yeah is true that I would like to have that best friend again sometimes.
When you're a weird girl with one friend as a child and you grow up unable to make friends and just assume that there's something wrong with you 😊
Hi it’s me I’m the problem it’s me 👋
This. Also I don't want to go out to bars and clubs, I don't want to get drunk every weekend and certain not going to snort anything. That right there eliminates a lot of people my age. I also don't want to go rock climbing. I figure you know what, I don't want to do what everybody is doing, so I must deserve to be lonely.
@@netteloveszebrasthis. I don’t quite understand the impulse to drink underage in college either. As a black female, I do not want to engage in anything that is 1.) illegal (at least for the time being) 2.) would not receive a “slap on the wrist for” 3.) be inebriated around a crowd of people that I literally do not know (literally giving them free ammo to stereotype me however they like). It’s just plain dumb and I feel like if I had to express this to people, they wouldn’t care
@@netteloveszebrasPersonally, I have found that focusing on what I do like to do and engaging in that in social ways when possible is pretty effective in finding community. Even more isolated hobbies like video games and knitting can be done socially with some creative thinking.
@@wherethequietbeingsgoYou have a pathological Disposition towards your peers. Seek therapy.
I had a female friendship blow up so spectacularly that I had to take time off work to allow myself to grieve. 15 years of close friendship ended overnight and I was devestated. I'd never considered that a friendship could make me feel like that, so now every friend I have I cherish even more
I'm so sorry you had to go through that! 15 years of friendship... I can't imagine how that must have felt
I has a similar thing happen, best friend and roomate moved out after 6 years. I was ghosted after she went cold and fell to ground crying when I saw her empty room and cancelled my plans for three days. It was nearly 2 years ago now and feels sore when I think about it. It was definitely up there with long term relationship breakup pain
@@Tesssasasasaaasa I had a very similar thing happen. Friends for 10 years and she ghosted me after a house party because of something another friend did. To this day I have no idea why she stopped talking to me, and didn't stop talking to my roommate and mutual friend? It still hurts and pisses me off if I think about it too much, because I have no idea what I did, if anything. She wouldn't answer any of my texts when I asked what was wrong. Literally something happened with someone else, she left my house, ghosted me, and I haven't heard a peep from her in like 6 years. Still don't know what her issue is. I'm so sorry this happened to you, too.
I had the exact same thing happen a couple years ago and it was more devastating than almost any romantic breakup I'd experienced. I'm honestly embarrassed to say so, but I haven't really made as much progress as I'd hoped bouncing back from it; despite being a fairly friendly person, I have a really tough time initiating friendships.
I'm really glad you've been able to cherish the friends in your life moreso, and I'm glad those relationships have deepened! :)
I just wish I had more energy after work to actually build up/ maintain my meaningful friendships. I’m over 30, we all accepted that we don’t meet up often anymore and that’s okay. But I really miss just hanging out as if it was nothing special and maybe just like yesterday and the day before.
The kind of friendship where you just sit next to each other doing your own thing and they're doing yours, and then have those periodic moments together and make inside jokes, or go out for food or coffee then come back and continue doing your thing. Those are the best! Now everyone needs to be entertained constantly so nobody just comes over and hangs out just to be near you. At least not since I was in school where we'd walk home together and eat some snacks and do homework
True. Thats why I meat with my mate to hit the gym before work. Because their all ways too tired after work. And they spend the weekends with their boyfriend.
If you and your buddy are willing to wake up early. Then the morning before work would be a good time to spend time walking, jogging, or training.
Phone conversations that you do while lying in/on bed are so underrated. It feels like a slumber party even if it's still light out
@@sarahwatts7152that sounds lovely 💕 I have a friend who lives far away that likes to call me while I’m in the bath tub or when they and I are doing chores. We then often talk until I have to go to bed and I really like those talks. When I visit them we do those kind of hang out that children do. Like watch a show we already watched a thousand times and just enjoy them together.
@@robertkeaney9905unfortunately I do wake up early already (5:30 am) to go to work so that’s not really possible. But I’m glad to hear that it’s working out for you and your friend and it sounds like a great way to connect between all the stress and schedules that adult life brings 😊
The way society teaches us from a young age to prioritize romantic relationships over any other relationship in our life has destroyed all of my friendships. It was a problem ever since I was a kid, but I'm 29 and I am left with no friends because no matter what, my ex-friends always chose to spend time with their partner at the end of the day. It has become exhausting to keep rescheduling every time they'd be like "actually, can't go out on friday cause my husband wants to do x or y, sorry" so I stopped bothering. Even those who lived with their partners would get to a point eventually where they were hesitant to dedicate one single day of a month to a meet up with me, because that was a day that could be spent with their s/o. I can't even describe how humiliating this is, to have someone imply you're not worth an hour of their month because they would rather watch Netflix with the person who literally lives with them, as if you're demanding too much of that friendship by making such request... So now I have no friends. To all my fellow single girlies in their 30s, I wish you all found families who seek fulfillment in things other than romantic pursuits.
Thank you for sharing! I feel the exact same, even though I am a little younger, I „broke up“ with my ex bsf because I felt neglected and then the friendship felt more like a burden to me. I too, dont really have any friends, merely aquaintances, but no one really in my spare time to spend it with. I find it so sad to see all these people prioritize their relationship over their friends, even if they are (arguably) more important!
I'm not making excuses for your friends, because that really does suck. But understand it's not because you're "not worth their time." I'm happily married and I do make time for friends. But that's partly because my husband actively encourages me. Being in a relationship is a little bit like being addicted to a drug, in that you have all these other fulfilling things you could be doing, but you'd rather not because it takes time away from that addiction. So for women with less healthy partners, they aren't encouraged to go outside and see other people. Some partners are also covertly discouraging it because they have jealousy issues. It's not because YOU aren't worthy in their eyes. It's because they're unhealthy and taking the easy way out.
And no, partnerships aren't inherently unhealthy like addictions are. But the brain chemistry is similar in some ways, so it can go that way at times if we're not careful.
then when they break up, they run back to you for comfort...
I mean yeah if I had it as easy as women have it, getting into romantic relationships I would also focus on friendships.
This hits fr. Lost lots of acquaintances/friends throughout my teens and twenties because they made themselves wholly inaccessible for the sake of their partners--and it didn't matter the situation. New relationship, old relationship. Living apart, living together.
I understand valuing one's partner and enjoying being with them, but if you have no desire to make time for friendships and nurture them, don't lead them on--communicate to them that you're only here for a casual acquaintance and can't give them anything else because you want to give all your time and emotional energy to your partner instead.
It's never fun to know someone doesn't like you enough to put in effort for you, but I'd rather know than waste my emotions and time trying to nurture a friendship that's never going to thrive.
My biggest problem isn't making new friends, but maintaining the friendships I already have. It feels like I'm the only one who puts any effort into my friendships. I'm always the one to text or call first. I'm always the one to make plans. Then when I get fed up with it I pull away because I tell myself "if they are really my friends they will reach out to me." And then the friendships just.... die. Then I blame myself for not putting in more effort, when I already know I was the only one ever trying. UUUGH! 😤 People are so damn unreliable and flakey and it makes me question if I'll ever have a REAL, GENUINE friendship. I think I've just learned how to cope with the lonliness.
Totally relatable
@@madeline7272 glad I'm not the only one
That’s exactly what I do, I cleansed my phone of a lot of numbers of people who just did not care to reach out to me.
Hearing about male loneliness always bothered me because it’s not just a male problem. As a queer, neurodivergent woman, childhood friendships were really difficult to make and maintain. My friends would break up with me because of my weirdness and I often found myself friendless. College was worse because no one wanted to take friendships past a mutual class. I’ve found work post-college and online gaming to be the only ways I’ve been able to make real and valuable friendships in my life.
I think it’s so hard to find your people when you’re not a typical person. The only way I could do it was by breaking into my career which is attractive to people like me. Adult friendships are possible though and I think for me, so much easier than childhood ones.
Male loneliness is just factually more prevalent than female loneliness. Let men hang on to the one sympathetic movement we have lol.
Thats interesting. When I heard about the make epidemic of loneliness. The first thing I did was ask if women felt the same. It made me realize we all have problems but we experience them in different ways and frequencies.
I highly relate to the college thing. I feel so incredibly isolated in college, with maybe one friend I made and I'm almost done with it. I am getting worse and worse at classes and grades because I have no one to connect with really at all in real life. It sucks
Wait, why were you upset hearing about male loneliness?
I definitely relate to it being difficult to make and maintain friendships being queer and neurodivergent, those are definitely very real and very impactful factors.
I'm also AMAB and generally male presenting. I've found this factor also makes it harder to find emotionally fulfilling and intimate friendships, especially ones that involve other AMAB people.
There are a lot of factors contributing to loneliness that are really tough for everyone, the thing about male loneliness is that even among those that don't face all these other struggles, due to socialization, simply being a male/AMAB is in and of itself a factor that makes it *even* harder which is multiplied when trying to connect with other male/AMAB people.
This in no way diminishes the loneliness that all people face. I can understand how hearing about it, especially given the overwhelming amount of other privileges that males get, can be bothersome, so I'm glad there are spaces and videos like this talking specifically to female loneliness and loneliness in general.
I feel like y’all live pretty interesting lives if you can spend 45 minutes catching someone up. I’m mostly “Oh, nothing new, really” and there, catchup done
Yeah. But I still feel akward to not really have much to say...
Your reply seems more like a reply to an acquaintance, whereas friends often want to update each other on their personal lives, especially if they haven’t seen each other in a while.
@@lexa2310 i had this problem but i started telling people about all the little 'unimportant' details. 'what have you been up to?' 'i've been doodling scenes from adventure time and i watched this really interesting video about sphynx cats' and stuff like that. idk if that's helpful to you but i found that it can spark conversations, and people like knowing little facts about their friends.
That’s so insane. I hardly ever leave the house and yet every catch up is hours and hours and hours. Technically I have hours of catch up to share every day.
exactly 😂 i’m like “well i sat at home and crocheted again…and uhh i bought a new espresso machine recently”
I used to treat my guy friends like my gal friends. Generally speaking, the cis guy friends would assume I was being "intimate" with them, and there was at least 1 situation where I was taken advantage of. I have changed the way I interact with my guy friends since to avoid that situation again. It kinda sucks! I want to be as close to my guy friends and my gal friends, but I don't want it to get weird again.
I‘m so sorry that happened to you and totally get that. But there are nice guys out there and I think if you communicate it to them, that its just friendship to you and they are fine with that, it might work. But be careful of course, good luck :)
@@julidia3439 Told a guy point blank that there is nothing on my side and that there never will be. Gave him the chance to back out of our friendship in case he was hoping for something else. He said it was OK.....I dont think i have to eloborate more than he very much was not ok with a friendship.
What more are you even supposed to do If point blank honesty to the face doesn't work??????
@@lexa2310Maybe start by not blaming every other man on the planet because of it 🤷🏻♂️
@@Artemis-A24they literally didn’t. They just said they adjust how they treat men now cause they’d rather not be taken advantage of again.
Male friends R the sht out of us.
My roommate moved out this month and it felt like a one sided divorce, I know her living situation is better now but I didn’t want her to go away.
The closest I had to a "friendship break up" was when my pandemic roommate moved out so they can move in with their partner. It's a very awkward position, since you feel hurt and abandoned, but also happy for your friend.
Wrote my rooomate a poem about how much I'd miss her and we cried together. We said we'd keep in touch but I'm sure we both know living apart that's not likely 😔
@@progress313 I sincerely HATE that. You both care for each other and had great times. You're being honest about keeping in touch, but you can FEEL it. Life is going to get in the way. I might try saying don't keep in touch, but if you think of me tell me or something along those lines.
They are not your property
@@JohnWall-lj1mxYou aren't engaging in good faith.
So many commenters here who are queer and disabled too. I'm in my late 40s, and all my close friends are long married in straight relationships. Our disabled experiences are what keep us as friends, but I do feel that being "the only" single and queer one in the group is isolating. I've made good friends and communities online, especially over the pandemic, but the abled world has rushed "back to normal", leaving the rest of us behind. And our social connections are just erased in the rush for capital and productivity. Keeping my fingers crossed for the revolution!
That does sound brutal. Its good that you made some good friends.
Good friends are worth their weight in gold.
Yeah, it’s rough out here for us. Hopefully the economy can slowly start to go back to normal because if not, there’s gonna be a lot more death soon.
I wouldn't put my faith in any revolutions. Revolutions are always destructive, make everyone poorer, and bring tyranny to all.
I'm not queer but I am autistic. I don't think anything is changing soon for friendship. I've always wanted a friend. Had a fun group going in middle school cause none of the poor kids parents wanted them in the house and we would all meet up and travel the city with nothing to eat 😂. None of those people were deep friendships. We were very comfortable around eachother but not exactly intimate and they grew out of it. I have my husband and children now and no one else. I am friendly with people but no real way to make a friendship happen. And I need to provide for my family so there's no time to take up finding a friend as a full time job. I actually feel like friends don't exist. But then there's some proof that it does like in these comments. And I try to forget about it lol. I hate feeling like people have friends, just I don't.
Well, I’m 40, straight, single, and autistic. 😅. So not all straight people get to couple up. I don’t think anyone would choose to be a straight woman 😅. You have to date people who are most likely to vote against your rights. It f&@king weird
The level of intimacy easy touch brings is something I yearn for. Me and my HS friends used to be more comfortable with touch but now in our mid-twenties we stopped. In my family a hand on the shoulder or a quick hug are common but I don´t live with my siblings anymore and my niblings are entering their awkward teens and they want space. Dude, sometimes I want a hug so bad I could (have) cry.
In HS i used to lay on my friends and was so comfortable with casual touch. With the few friends I have now in my 20s, I can't break that barrier of going from no touch to touch for some reason. It's unfortunate bc i love physical touch but haven't received any in probably years.
This is my issue.as a teen me and my at the time best friend would be wrapped up in eachother. Always leaning on eachother, straight up having our legs in between the others at times. And my other close friend my senior year would bear hug me every time we met.
But now 5-7 years later, a year and a half of pure isolation..it's like I want touch but I hate it.
With my current best friend (the high school one blew up on the whole group and left sadly) the most touch we really have is holding hands in crowded spaces or leaning only if one of us is super tired. And like you said, dude all I want is a hug sometimes. I just want a pat on the back or some sort of warmth but I'm scared my friend will find it weird because I think we're both slightly touch adverse.
It was definitely very common for people to hug or cuddle each other in a pretty uncomplicated, unstudied way in my HS in the 90s. I would hug, lean against or otherwise playfully touch male and female friends regularly, especially we'd all hang out in this one corner in the morning. By playfully touch I mean you might be picked up and carried, someone might lay on you... I kinda liked being a surfboard
The idea that someone might laugh at two straight male teens, or one gay and one straight, hugging or being physically affectionate and then insinuate that there was something suspect about that, was something we were completely aware of. It wasn't like we didn't know some people thought like that.
It was just nobody was actually going to do that, or if anyone did, it was pretty lighthearted and easy to shrug off, rather than part of some ongoing campaign or environment of harassment. A male and female hugging wasn't assumed to be romantic, even a kiss on cheek might not flag anybody as gossip worthy. Holding hands was romantic, though.
People definitely used slurs pretty liberally and told offensive jokes but there wasn't this huge politicized ideology behind it, or at least not a popular awareness of one. Like a legitimate exchange type I've seen before in multiple forms was person A using gay or f-g as an insult against person B, who replied "but I actually am gay" and person A is mortified like "omg I'm so sorry bro I didn't know".
The social expectation was that you "had no problem with someone being gay" as a policy, even if you were clearly personally uncomfortable with it.
Honestly even the "bullies" weren't that bad. They'd apologize if they took something too far, or leave someone alone if they were clearly going through something. I was "bullied" but it was basically just two people in the whole school who rose to that level.
There was a tiktok that went viral of a woman crying from how touch-deprived she was and how much she wanted a hug, and I really appreciated her vulnerability because it can be embarrassing to admit. It's so hard that cuddles are reserved for romantic relationships. I'm single and have been for a while, and I am just so desperate for a hug that's more than a second long.
I never got invited to parties as a teenager, so overcompensated in my first year of uni to catch up on all the partying and drinking I missed out on. I was bullied but also seen as reliable even by people who called me names all the time, in that I was the useful smart kid expected to help people and never be included in anything. I had "friends" but always had to forcefully include myself or else be left behind. Only in 6th form and then uni have I actually formed friend groups and been treated well by people generally rather than as an exception.
That has meant I didn't experience the friend breakup thing, but this one girl saw I was sad on the bus in year 9 and actually listened to me even when I started crying. I had never experienced anything like that before besides with my mum. I forgot to ask her name and when I had an autistic meltdown in chemistry later that month I tried to describe her to the teacher so I could maybe talk to her, but didn't know her name so the teacher was mostly just confused.
Due to that lack of experience in both platonic and romantic love, I have a hard time telling them apart and it's partly why I prefer sex since there's certainty there.
God, what you described here sounds like my experience as well. Being undiagnosed autistic all through school pretty much made me the target of a lot of people, and it wasn't until later that I actually processed that they kept me around and called me a friend because i was like some sort of "jester" or "pet project" they had. I was only around to keep that "friendgroup" (or rather, my bullies(? I guess) entertained, and do their bidding (assignments, projects, even online tests) when they didn't want to. They made plans in front of me, most of which I was never included in, until one of them gained enough concioussness to notice that it was pretty rude of them, actually. Despite that, I felt more like I was being dragged around rather than hanging out with my friends. One time they made me store their alcohol in my backpack so that they wouldn't be blamed for having it (we were minors at the time, and I didn't even drink.)
Needless to say, that experience made me develop a lot of anxiet, then the pandemic hit, and I became completely isolated because I had changed schools, and obviously those people never contacted me again. So I started making friends through Discord, but we all know that those kind of places are infested with weirdos. One of my friends got groomed, another I had to witness going down the alt-right pipeline, and that whole friendgroup became a general disorganized mess.
4 years later and now in uni, I've made quite a few friends irl, but we're far from the one big friendgroup we were before. Now I only talk to 3 of those original like 19 people, and even while that was still going on, I felt like they were more friends of my one more extroverted friend that I hung out with so I wouldn't be alone. I also struggle a lot with that distinction of platonic/romantic, my only romantic relationships have been online, I've never been to parties. FOMO doesn't even affect me anymore because I feel like although I've been there to witness drama after drama between different kinds of friendgroups, I've always just been the spectator. Like "the truman show" combined with a shitty teen drama.
That’s so interesting! I had the exact same experience as you when I was a child but my reaction as a college student was completely different. I purposely isolated myself and refused to let myself make close friends because “theyre not going to like me anyways” and I just didn’t know how to go about the whole socializing thing. It was only as a mid-20s person that I learned how to reach out to others
I was super isolated growing up and wanted to try to change it in college, but at that point had zero social skills. I didn’t know how to show up to parties on campus that were open for people to walk in. So I would get all dressed up and wait in my dorm room hoping that one of the other girls in my program would invite me to go out with them, because if they DID ask I didn’t want having to get ready be the reason they said nvm.
Thank you for sharing your experience 💜
Yeah, all the things YOU never had are just a carrot on a stick for what THEY want
This idea about first best friends (I’m a cis woman) being akin to cis men’s first romantic relationships makes so much sense to me. My first serious best friend cutting me out of her life in favor of her partner completely changed my life’s trajectory in a really dramatic way and still influences me today. I went from an idealistic, trusting optimist to a pragmatic pessimist almost overnight. I acknowledge pessimism is not great, but the expectation of disappointment/lack of follow through from others has saved me from lots of stress and being put in bad situations. Tori, if you’re reading this, thank you for completely upending my life, I’ve never made the same mistake again!
This describes how I feel perfectly. I lost two best friends partly to them being boy-crazy, and it’s left me feeling incredibly empty, jaded, and confused. It’s partly cause I’m biromantic so my friendships with other women can be very close. It feels like I can’t trust or depend on people and I hate it :(
oh my god same.
I've always been sort of a friendship outcast. Too "weird" for the normal kids but too "normal" and conforming for the actual weird kids. I was the friend who'd always attend everyone's bday, but everyone would skip out on mine. I've had more success in smaller friendship groups, but as a person who's probably ND and connects with ND people; they meet new people, connections turn into catch-up friendships where they only have time once every half a year, new exciting things happen, priorities shift, people move on. I've never experienced a friendship that wasn't out of convenience and that thought is kind of lonely at times.
Relatable
i think we all have social anxiety nowadays because we don't actively socialize and "practice" these skills anymore - which perpetuates a continuous cycle where we're anxious we'll mess up socially and avoid practice and engaging so that next time the opportunity to be social arises we're not better equipped and are anxious again
Yeah, shouldn't have gen X be able to teach us? You know, because they didn't grow up with social media 😂
@@tulip811 I think social skills is a heard thing to "teach." You just have to practice it
I've been asker older women in ny life about their experiences of loneliness im their 20s and beyond, just to help me better understand what I'm going through... my mother (mid-50s) and my older neighbor (late-70s) both told me about how incredibly lonely they felt during their 20s, being able to point back at old diary entries as a reminder of that time. It made me feel less alone in that sense of loneliness. We might face unique challenges (social media, loss of 3rd spaces, climate anxiety, etc) to our mental health (behavioral data show that we are far more anxious and depressed than previous generations), but it is comforting to know that what I'm feeling has been felt before by the women of other generations.
This is some grade A cope. While generally people have become more lonely women are way less lonely than men.
nice cope male@@JuliAuditore
@@Mukyuify Nope, studies in friendships show that women have more friends and closer friends than men. Also the fact that women report to have more sexual partners that men (18-29) so that indicates that women have social groups that facilitate the forming of relationships, also this happens because women tend to go after older more well established men, this dosen't happen the other way around, older women don't go and form relationships with yonger women.
The catch up friendship thing is what I started feeling in my 30s, when my friends and I had kids. That kind of makes sense. In my 20s we were going out to bars and clubs: we had fun, we had hook ups, we watched out for each other, we experimented. So when we did catch up for cofee back then, there was a lot to talk about. I guess what Im saying is that I hope young people are still having fun. Its hard to base friendships on long endless talking. You need to also be doing stuff together that are fun.
Underrated comment
I think culture makes a difference. I grew up in the small town in the Midwest, people are reliable, and considerate. I moved to the LA, it’s completely different, people are flakey and kinda rude. The shock on people’s faces when I do something as basic as showing up on time, or at all, it’s sad. I believe the best thing kids can do is learn how to be a good friend.
This was so validating to read! I make a lot of jokes (which are also serious lol) about having been adjusting to the culture around social relationships here in Michigan for over 10 years after moving from the south. People are so "flaky" here and idk if I will ever fully adapt. They act like anything over a half hour drive is too far to regularly get together. And the amount of straight up not showing up with no notice to a planned hang out is shocking. For a long time I thought maybe I just happened to make friends when I moved here who were like this but the more people I meet the more I see it truly is a cultural difference.
I hope you (and I lol) make some friends with a view of what "showing up" as a friend means that's more in alignment with your own eventually!
This is soooooo real.
I feel I was brought up to be a good friend, and that's my problem in friendships. I am constantly the one doing the right thing and being considerate, while everyone else is a self-absorbed flake, and if I try to set boundaries, they make me feel like I am overly sensitive for just wanting standard basic human decency.
@@sephfaraj8480 Where in Michigan are you?
@@bettyunicorn6132
When I first moved here I was living in Detroit Metro, that's where all the folks I've met from here are.
I am definitely lonely. To make matters worst I recently lost my job, so there's been days where I haven't talked to anyone but my mother, and I am pretty sure that the day that she is no longer here I'll have nobody else.
And because I got so used to being alone and without friends I also became a quiet person even in social media, whenever I watch a video like this or when I see a post that is just a silly and I have something to say about it, I don't and just give it a like and move on with my day. This is a huge part of my problem and I know it but can't seem to change it. Honestly I am destined to be alone and I don't like it. I hate it.
You've got to get into some third spaces. Like the Gym, or the park, or an games shop.
It doesn't matter if you take a cycle class, or you join a Ultimate Frisbee team, or you get into Table Top Role playing games. Whatever works.
Sharing a space with others, and building up connection over time is hard but rewarding. Like carving a sculpture out of marble.
@@robertkeaney9905 I have found a hobby online, I like a kpop group (BTS) and I am a dedicated part of ARMY (fandom name). Being involved in this community I was able to gain over 25k followers but even with all of that I still don't have friends, I've never talked to anyone from the community, people like my videos (I make edits on TikTok) but they don't know me.
god i felt this. like i am only emotionally close to my dad, and i rarely ever post on social media, esp if its about myself or my life. i can relate to wanting to reply/enter a conversation in social media and just....not doing it for whatever reason. don't even get me started if it's old friends whenever i see their posts on fb, and what fun events their going to with their other friends/classmates and how they probably didn't even think about inviting me :/
sorry if this is sudden trauma dumping. it's just this is one of those yt moments where a comment manages to perfectly reflect and articulate my life lol.
Very much the same here. I’m on the internet in all sorts of communities but I almost never interact beyond a like. I probably average like 5 comments online a year :(
@@medea__witchhh I totally get needing to talk about it. I feel like part of the problem is the shame/ embarrassment of not having formed this kind of emotional connection up until now. Like, I am 29 years old and I haven't really experienced most of what is considered normal relationships. So how can I talk to people about feelings and emotions?
I've always wondered why people say that "being friendzoned" or "being just friends" by a crush is like, a step down from successfully acquiring a romantic relationship. I've been romantically rejected by many but have maintained very meaningful friendships with some of them. In my opinion, I feel more fulfilled having them as a very good friend than if I dated them seeking a long term partner.
Friend zone is a silly made up concept
@@chase_saddy Nope, it's a shitty situation that men get into when they over invest in a woman they aren't certain that will reciprocate the attention, wasting his time.
In your opinion, it's a win when he gives you his time and attention.
In his opinion, he tried to court you, only to have you decide you wanted to take some of his time and attention.
@@JuliAuditore you’re wrong. How does it feel being wrong?
@@chase_saddy how am I wrong?
Especially as a neurodivergent + disabled queer person I've definitely been feeling loneliness most of my life. I've been a loner for most of my life because of this and also lost friendships because of my identity too. Its been tough dealing with loneliness that its actually made my mental + physical health worse by a LOT.
Same here. What I've found though is that it's easier for me to make friends with other ND, queer, or disabled people. Sometimes I'll make friends with someone who is one of those things, only to find out later they also have those additional qualifiers.
@FrozEnbyWolf150 I wish I could find ND queer community but I can't drive due to disability and that's made it so hard to do when my city/county is so sprawled out and there is a big stigma around physically disabled people
@@emeraldfern6135 It might be easier to reach out to people online, rather than in person. I forgot to mention. I've met quite a few of my friends online, and it's easier to get in touch with them.
@@emeraldfern6135You can always try online! Many discord servers have spaces specifically for neurodivergent, disabled, and queer people, and there are many servers dedicated to just those purposes as well!
i find that my friends almost excude me from their other friend groups. there is never an intermingling. i am not all that social so i have a small group of people i trust, but in the past i have made a point to introduce new friends to my long time friends. but i dont see them doing that in return. they seem afraid to introduce me to their other friend groups
OMG SAME!! it’s like they’re embarrassed of me or something. i’ve only had friends introduce me to their other friends like once or twice. and even then, we only hung out once and then i never saw the other friends again. i feel like i’m the “secret” friend for people. they like hanging out with me, but they don’t want anyone else to know they’re friends with me
They want to control you. They also want to have you second-guessing yourself, so they feel better about themselves, and more than likely they are using you as their reliable one on one friend that is there for their needs/problems but not to have fun. I have cut these sorts of friends out of my life and am better for it.
That might not be a personal thing. I think some people just like their groups separate especially if they have different dynamics with different friends.
Exactly @@ruthielalastor2209
I have a friend who I want to introduce to my other friends, but she has lots of mental illnesses, and she's shy and quite judgemental towards new people. I feel like I need a specific kind of person to introduce to her. I don't know who.
As a female high schooler, despite the fact that I still get to see my friends on a daily basis, the part at 26:30 really resonates with me. Everyone is always busy, and after school you never know if someone has an extracurricular or something to do. You never want to bother people outside of your "allotted" social time at school. The one time I successfully scheduled a spontaneous hangout with my friends, they also told me they had never hung out spontaneously before.
Additionally, the super intimate movie-like female relationship just doesn't seem real to me anymore; I don't call my friends out of boredom as much as I did as a child because I don't want to impede on their time, and after spending a year of my adolescence social distancing I can't imagine casually hugging my friends. Of course, this is just my experience and is not representative of everyone my age, and my relationships have been getting closer after the pandemic. Additionally, I do think it's important to note that I am in a somewhat competitive environment, so the desire for productivity is always surrounding me.
The most interesting part of this, however, is that nobody is as busy as everyone thinks they are, and everybody wants to have close relationships. But we don't pursue them, because we are scared of impeding on others' time or inconveniencing them. Which, in a hyperproductive, work-oriented world, is the worst thing you can do to someone.
Wow, and yowch. I'm completely in on both trying not to inconvenience others and often thinking of unplanned interaction besides a text or brief hello chat if we meet on the street as an inconvenience. Just yowch. Spitting facts and it's hitting deep
I remember in Norwegian classes (I'm a native), we read this old poem that was written back in the industrial revolution. Just when big cities started becoming a thing and more and more people were moving away from the country life from more close knit villages, to something entirely new and different. Though the word did not exist back then, the poem was very much about loneliness. It very beautifully captured the intricacies of these feelings. It was also, almost, a horror poem. It would definitely be considered such if it was written today. If youre interested in reading it, I could try track it down by contacting my old teacher. There is likely an English translation of it somewhere.
Which tells us that social media is much less of a factor than we often hear in the media.
When there are reports about loneliness and mental illness, social media is often named as a cause. But, personally, I think it's more of a symptom. People are lonely and sad and then turn to social media to find some type of human connection and distraction.
I would love to read it, if you could find it!
@@onion3150 I will try emailing my old teacher. Though I cannot guarantee she’ll respond. ^^
Damn this sounds like something i would like to read!
@@emris2697I’d love to read it if you were able to find it:)
I'm nonbinary, AFAB. Growing up I felt like a freak because friends would suddenly drop me (being diagnosed with autism as an adult explained a lot of that). Girls scared me - they were cruel, and seemed to have all these rules that I wasn't privy to. Boys were easier - sure there were jerks, but it was easier to deal with, and were more straightforward.
I'm 31 now and only began having close friendships with women in the last few years. I still struggle so much because I didn't grow up having friends, and I feel more like my experience in friendship is more masculine, that I'm learning how to be a friend. Thank you for this video, even though it made me sad to hear examples of what I never got.
I’m not in my 30’s (I’m younger), but I absolutely relate to this.
@@Reed5016 I'm a bit older (mid thirties) but I relate to this (too!)
I relate too but I feel I belong nowhere. Big sigh. Still struggling with this stuff. Hope your journey goes well. Edit: I soon become 31 as well... I felt so exposed
@@pricklypear300 I love your pfp. Haruka is cool.
Please don't use abreviations if they aren't obvious to everyone.
54:24 I have TWICE had the experience where I tried to open up to a slightly casual friend and they suggested I should get a therapist. It was humiliating and made me feel rejecting and alone. It feels like friendships are not a place for my feelings if they aren't good feelings. I also can't rely on friends to respond to messages. Basically sometimes i feel like I don't exist outside of being a worker.
It's good advice tho.
You know, when someone is generally sad, dysfunctional or pathologic in their affect, I can listen to them vent all day, but that won't really help.
But you know what WOULD help?
Therapy!
So I said to a good friend of mine "you should really consider going to therapy", and then he did, and now he's better. See? It works.
to me, it's how people never want to deal with the "bad" in a friendship. not that they should be the therapist friend. but it's always the same people who casually dump their trauma on people unprovoked. who can't deal with a friend needing emotional support.
While I can sympathize with your experience, I can also sympathize with the experience of being the therapist friend. When someone only wants to talk to you about their problems and not anything else, it gets exhausting VERY quickly. Like, I'm your friend not your therapist. There is only so much support I can provide, and I'm not a professional that deals with people's problems all the time. I can understand what it feels like to be rejected by a friend when you try to open up too tho. It's a delicate balancing act.
I had a vibrant social life in high school and uni, and now I feel like I'm always struggling to replicate even a fraction of feeling of belonging and interconnectedness that I had in my early twenties.
The ability to look back and see what is missing definitely helps, but it also breeds deep unsatisfaction that makes it harder to value current friendships.
god this hits so hard.
i had really close female friendships throughout my childhood and teen years. but towards the end of high school my friend group split and then other people, that i didn't really like, got brought into our group. and slowly over time i felt like i was pushed out of the group, one of the main reasons was because i didn't drink. nothing would ever happen with those friends unless i reached out, and when i stopped i never heard from them again.
then when i went to uni i became close with one girl, and we had a friend group and post uni we were still friends. then during lockdown, her now boyfriend, was flirting with me and basically leading me on, the shit we talked about was definitely not just friend stuff, and when they became a thing, i opened up to her about what had happened and she blew up at me. saying it was all me, nothing ever happened. he would never do such a thing, meanwhile he gets to sit back and laugh at how he controlled and manipulated the situation. it honestly felt worse than a breakup. i couldn't give a shit about him, he's a scumbag tbh, but her believing him over someone that had been her friend for about 6 years at that point just fucking sucked.
luckily my best friend, was also part of that group, believed me, because he could see shit too that happened with the other guy. he is my best friend but i do really miss close female friendships. i have friends from work and we have hung out outside of work but it just doesn't feel as deep.
sorry if this is a trauma dump but this topic just hits so hard.
Aw fuck dude.... I felt my soul leave my body reading that. I'm so fucking sorry that happened to you 😢💔 I've never had a friend breakup like that before but I can see why that would stick with you to such a degree. Complete betrayal.
Friendship breakups sound like petty teenage drama but they are actually catastrophic events
When i was 16 i very quickly went from having no social connections whatsoever to bring near other people my age literally 24/7 when i was in the psych ward. It was certainly an interesting experience. Some say it was trauma bonding but it felt like bonds forged in fire, not that any of them lasted past the point i was released. But when the nurses and doctors were unemphatic or just bad at their jobs (which is much more often than one would hope) we were there for each other. We talked for hours just to pass the time and whenever someone would cry there would be at least two other kids by them offering a cup of water or just being with them. Those relationships were instantly temporary, but they left a mark, which is why i still think about them to this day, probably in deeper ways than some romantic relationships people have.
I'm so glad to hear y'all had each other to get through it!
I know I still wonder about how the kids I was in inpatient with are doing over 15 years later for the same reasons.
i feel this so hard. the first time i ever went to residential was the one of first times i had ever had people around me who truly liked me for me. i could unmask and be myself around them and they always reminded me that they liked me and gave me compliments on my personality. i made them laugh, and not because they were laughing AT me, but because they genuinely found me funny. they reminded me that i was intelligent and insightful, and that i was unique and knowledgeable about many things. we all cried when i left. i didn’t really stay in touch with any of them unfortunately (due to all of us being mentally ill lol). but it was one of the only times in my life where i felt valued. one of the girls unadded me on snap recently, which made me sad. but im just trying to cherish the memories and the feelings i had at the time
There is an eroticism to certain platonic relationships between girls depicted in movies like Girl, Interrupted
Holy...woe this hits home.....I know exactly how you feel...
I was in an elevator with a man and his gf for a few minutes 20 years ago and that interaction and bonding experience we had was stronger then some coworkers I worked months besides....it's crazy
Yep, granits very intense,ted it really depends on the people and if the ward actually has the aproach to like encourach that as recovery, and be not ttoo awful, Woulsnr recommend if you dont have too,
but yeah if ther are secent people to hang out, because bloody it beats the boredom, and it is intense of course, in a positibve way if ther is a decent kinda community even. Good psychiattries use that communal if possible intentional in recovery by the way.
Makes me thinks of scout and the , stuff that happened on campds and, really wild fun stuff sometimes, also very memorable, taught me about responsible being drunk by the way :P
For the same reason i think veterans are instantly that open and way different, i thinlk
As a "woman of a certain age," I've had both friend-filled days, and lonely periods of time. I'm now more picky about friends and have far fewer of them, but quality relationships. Closest ones mostly met online, and then hang out in person - helps that I'm in a big city with a large queer population and good transit. Maybe not having real friends until high school, and even then not being popular, made me appreciate friends more? I'm lucky though; so many can't afford to live in the type of situation that I do. Mental health can still be a problem, but my friends are so great with it.
Might sound like a dumb question to ask, but do you have any tips on making friends online? I've been attempting to do the same and I am just not having any success.
heyo same question as the other person
I haven’t had any friends since 2015. And when I did have friends they were only in school like we never hung out outside of school and over the summer I was completely isolated
Me too. I think I don't even know how to actually have a casual conversation anymore.
😭🤝
Same. Grew up in the middle of no where and my parents drove thirty minutes and an hour to work. I didn't get to exist outside of school and the house.
Same. Any friendship I did have felt surface level too
that’s how high school was for me too. i had a “friend group” but i never felt i was really part of the group. i’m pretty sure i was the only autistic person in that group so that’s probably why 😂 i ate lunch with them everyday and that was about it. the only times i ever really hung out with them outside of school was the occasional birthday party or homecoming. i stopped talking to all of them after graduation day
Man your observation about how men and women seem to experience friendship differently makes a lot of sense and hits uncomfortably close to home. I turned 27, straight male, never have been in a relationship and got diagnosed with social phobia last year. Since then I started to reevaluate all past and current friendships and other platonic relationships in my life and quickly realized all of them felt very surface level and shallow, even when it comes to my own parents. And while I do often crave having those deeper, meaningful relationships and friendships in my life, the thought of having to aproach people and open up also scares me to a point where I isolate even more.
I've had this same feeling at a few times (also straight guy). I have an issue where I'll stop talking to friends for weeks (I get time-blind), then feel bad and worry about re-engaging. I hope you can figure out a good way to meet people. For me, I had a lot of luck leaning into the male friendship stereotype rowan mentioned where its more about a task. I do a language exchange on VR chat when I have time, I play games online with a friend of mine when he asks, I wait to get haircuts until my dad offers to go together. Sorry if none of this helps. Best of luck, bro
@@CapnNapalmvery relateable.
I have the same issues and I also have the same strategy when it comes to social gatherings.
@@CapnNapalmas a woman who’s time-blind and also has those same fears, thanks for sharing this. I hope both of us have better luck in the future Dude.
My feminine loneliness all started when I invited 7 of my “closest friends” to my 19th birthday party and only 1 showed up😂😂. It’s been about 6 years and things haven’t been the same since. All girls btw, only 2 had the human decency to tell me they couldn’t come. I felt like such a loser for so many years but it’s super reassuring to know other women have dealt with similar instances. I’ll be turning 30 in a few short years and I just don’t know what my social life will look like. I’ll tell you it’s been hella lonely and boring for a woman like me in my 20s, the “golden years”.
I have been feeling lonely every day for years, even before COVID. I haven’t had any issues building and maintaining friendships until I moved from my collectivist home country to the US. People are so quick to cut off anyone who slights them in any way instead of resolving the issue. People move and cease contact with each other, but seem to experience comparatively very little sadness at the loss of that person in their life. People in the US just seem less emotionally attached and dedicated to their friends than what I’m used to. Every single friendship I have ever had in the US in the 14 years of me living here has ended in one of two ways: eventually the other person starts fading out of my life due to work, school, moving, finding other friends, etc. and I let it happen, OR I try to remain in their life by reaching out to them on a regular basis, trying to make plans to hang out, and actively participating in the friendship and they don’t reciprocate any of my efforts and eventually I confront them about the lack of reciprocation and they blow up on me, saying I ask too much of them and that I’m being clingy, then cut me out of their life. I have been repeatedly traumatized by people who I considered my best friends and who used to consider me the same abandoning me either quietly or violently. I lost my last friend due to fading away a couple years ago. I think about them and everyone else I have lost every single day and I’m on the verge of crying typing this out. I don’t understand why I keep losing people I care about and have grown resentful toward this country, towards people, and towards myself. I don’t even know why I feel the need to make this comment. Either nobody will read it or I’ll get a comment from somebody telling me “well MY friendships in the US are deep and meaningful and long-lasting, you just need to meet the right people.” FOURTEEN YEARS. NOT A SINGLE PERSON HAS REMAINED IN MY LIFE FOR MORE THAN 3 YEARS. This has NEVER been an issue where I’m from and so I beg to differ! In any case, I don’t see myself as capable of building and maintaining any sort of non-superficial human connection anymore. I’m currently back in school for a profession that requires very little human interaction and I’m avoiding connecting with people despite how much I want to. (Not that anyone else tries to connect with me either, which makes it easy) Each time I lose a friend hurts more than the last, things have been on a consistently worsening trajectory and I’m scared that eventually these losses will hurt me so much that I will end my life because of it. This is no longer a matter of healing and trying again, I’m in self-preservation mode and will remain that way for the foreseeable future.
I grew up here and I feel similarly. I still mourn long friendships that ended suddenly and without explanation, and I feel a lot of the time that my understanding of relationships is completely different from the people around me. Sometimes I feel like I would have been better off living in my parents country, but I don’t think that possible considering the ways I’m marginalized.
All this to say, I deeply empathize with you
Born and raised in the US, and this culture has had a deep impact on me. I have lost so many friends and I don't know why. Thinking about entering new relationships makes me feel ill. I also think it's generational. My elderly neighbor is the only one who is able to teach me how to be a good friend. She meets the neighbors and knows all the tea on the block, but her husband is ill so we can't see her as much
i was born and raised in the US, and i’ve had very similar experiences. you’re not alone
I was born and raised in the UK, still live here and can really relate to your comment. I started therapy a year ago convinced I was a terrible person because of all the lost friendships. My problem is I'm now so isolated and lonely and depressed it's hard to be normal enough to go out to things and meet new people, I'm scared they'll think I'm weird for how isolated I am. I was part of two volunteer groups but they both suddenly shut down and the isolation has been crushing since then. I will keep trying new things because my survival depends on it. I'm not sure what the answers are, it seems modern society is not good for friendships.
I was born in the US and my experiences are similar. Though for me, I've had a series of 8+ year friendships turn extremely toxic and outright abusive. The first close friend I ever had was in childhood, but they moved away, and before the internet was as robust. I actually did visit them again about a year later, they had already developed a tight friend group and I was an outsider by that point. Unlike them, I hadn't made friends with anyone since then. After that point I started to try socializing online, and ended up developing a close online friendship that lasted about 10 years, and we had met up in person twice. It ultimately ended for a variety of reasons, but one big reason had to do with the involvement of the next close friend I made about 4 years in, who was also online (and had also met up in person). I had introduced them to eachother, and the two of them ended up conspiring with eachother to try to oust me. The former, as well as myself, had been manipulated significantly by this person over a period of several years. Said third person ended up admitting to me that they were jealous of me, and so they tried to put me down at every opportunity and deliberately tried to turn my best friend against me. We both ended our friendship with this person but our friendship ultimately never truly recovered and ended completely years later after an argument. The next one was a real life friend, we had met in high school. We had technically "dated" for years but it never felt right to me. It eventually lead me to realize I was asexual. We broke up but remained just as close, or so I thought. A few years ago I got into another relationship that I was actually happy in and their attitude changed. Eventually they just stopped talking to me alltogether, so I guess they were only friends with me on the off chance we could get back together again. I also made another good online friend in college. We were extremely close but one day they decided they resented me over things that weren't even anything I personally did, but blamed me for all their problems. Part of this was yet again spurred on by a third party actively trying to turn us against eachother (who this friend even warned me about, but fell for it themselves, while I caught on pretty quick as this person was actively telling me things I knew 100% were lies about my friend) We had developed a group online together, but eventually my friend decided to tell everyone how supposedly evil I was. I got tired of being treated coldly and having everyone turned against me, so I left. Inbetween this, I ended up getting involved with an extremely toxic group in college where the "leader" would openly brag to us about pitting two of the boys in the group against eachother to fight for her affection. I got out of that group with another friend. Who ultimately ended up not talking to me anymore after lashing out at me for reasons I don't understand. Now the only person I regularly talk to is my partner....who after a few years in, now regularly hurts me in similar ways that my last close friend did. I had been in therapy and taught all these ways to communicate and handle things, and every single thing I had been taught ended up at best not helping or at worse making things worse for me. All of these things just make me feel like I should have never even tried to make friends at all. I can no longer make new friends because I cannot handle being treated the way I have been treated again. And worst of all is the guilt, because its treated as though if a person consistently only has toxic relationships, then "clearly" it means that person is the toxic one. I have done everything for the people I cared about. I'm the type of person who if I'm told I did something hurtful, I make sure to never do that again. I'm the type of person will try to resolve conflicts with understanding and compassion rather than accusations and threats. I'm the type of person who will try to avoid misunderstandings by asking questions and trying to make sure we're all on the same page, instead of getting angry at a misunderstanding. If something does upset me, I will speak calmly and try to work things out, never reacting in a sudden way without warning. I learned how to do all of this in therapy, as an autistic person, as this is supposedly how neurotypicals communicate. That's a lie. People say that's the kind of friend they want, but they refuse to even put in half as much effort.
It's just miserable. I feel hopeless and that no matter what I do, people will treat me horribly.
As an autistic person who prefers the company of other neurodivergent people, i often forget the catchup part and forget to like. Mention i got married since the last time we met or some shit lol. We just talk about mutual interests and random happy memories we have together.
right? some catchup is good but you can make that fast riight?
I do that too. I was in a relationship with my girlfriend for three years, and before that another four years of being best friends, and during that entire time, I forgot to tell her that this guy that I always present as "my cousin" was actually not my cousin and not related to me by blood, that he's actually just a really close friend that I consider as my family.
She spent like seven years knowing me, and thinking this guy was actually my blood related cousin. And when she asked me why didn't I tell her something so important, my answer was, I kid you not, "You didn't ask"
That's literally my reason. If you don't ask me I don't even think about telling you, not because I don't trust you or I don't care about you enough to tell you, but because I simply don't remember to do so, and don't consider it a piece of information appropriate to any of the conversations we've had.
Since realizing this, I make it a point to mentally summarize my life events since I last saw someone and then I tell them when we hang out again, because apparently that's a thing people appreciate.
This is a great Video. This brings back painful memories which i have been enduring. My relationship of 5 years ended 3 months ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Interesting. Who is this counsellor, and how do I meet the person?
Thanks a lot. I just did. Impressive.
wtf bots are getting really out of hand
so sorry
@@charmingnarcissewait, is this an ad
I'm thirty four. Got completely new friends in the last couple of years because the old ones got married and in my culture female bonds are not as valued. A wife's social circle is her husband's. Well, now I have new friends with values close to mine and it's actually better. Didn't expect that tbh.
i felt that in college (years 2019-2022 or so) i had created a lot of friendships (this wasn't common for me in HS)
in those years i have lost SO much trust in people that i'm now paranoid and untrusting of others in a deep way. i am friendly to most everyone, but i can't seem to allow people in past a certain point. it's kind of devastating to me but it's so difficult to change
Very intriguing video essay. I spend my time alone most of the time and have found the way people view friendships so different the older I get. This is why I am alone for the most part. being neurodivergent and in the queer community makes it even harder. I am finding i have to accept that this is the life I have.
i’m 11 minutes in and all i’m feeling is sad for myself 💀
edit: finished the video and yeah i still feel sad about not having friends
❤
Took you 11 minutes? I'm only 6 minutes in.
8 minutes is and great to know by the end I’m still gonna feel bad! 🙃
Thanks for this. This is top real for me I was hoping it'd be helpful. Going to skip this one
haha 2 minutes for me, hits a little too much
one of the things that pulled me out of the clutches of loneliness in the pandemic was just having a discord server with a bunch of my classmates where we would be talking every day about the stuff we were doing in class, whatever funny thing our teacher said, the shows we were watching, just normal teenager stuff, etc. we would do voice calls at least once a week if not more of just watching someone play minecraft over vc and talking about life. tbh i kinda miss it alsdkfj
Man i love that term "catch up friendships". They are better than nothing but yeesh theyre not as satisfying as an properly emotionally deep friendship!! :(
This was a really thoughtful and practically-oriented video: I actually reached out to several people while I was watching it, so thanks for helping to cross that conversational bridge of "wanting to talk but not having an established reason"! Much love to other people this resonated with
My mom did her doctoral thesis on female friendships in university engineering students, I half expected her paper to come up here. Good video!
I love the idea of communicating what you can and can’t do in a friendship! One of my longest and closest adult friendships has been all about communicating how we can best be there for one another. I really struggle with texting at times, so audio and video messages are super helpful for me. I’m constantly sending audio/video messages back and forth with one of my friends, and we’ve established that there’s never any pressure to open and respond to a message right away bc we have different schedules/needs. This really helps us keep up on each other’s lives on the daily so when we get a chance to call or travel to see each other in person, we can actually hang out verses constantly catching up.
I’m autistic but kinda have a bit of a struggle with other disabled and neurodivergent people.
Like I was forced to go to a bunch of different “social groups” whether it was like a social skills class or some sort of field trip to wherever, and it turns out that all of us having being neurodivergent in common did not really make it any easier for us to become friends. Like it always ended with some people ending up butting heads and causing some sort of fight/meltdown. I also was typically the only “attractive enough” female presenting person in the groups, and I felt like I was basically a piece of meat thrown in front of a pack of starving wolves. And no matter what I did to stand up for myself the “teachers” or “leaders” in the groups would always tell me off for basically being a bitch who is hurting her own prospects concerning her “social skills” or even hurting the prospective social skills of the other boys.
I’m a pretty naturally reserved person and I don’t really get what is supposed to be wrong with that, and my inability to make friends just got worse and worse because whenever I tried to be more confident and stand up for myself I would be punished for being “too much” or “off putting”. As if my feeling that if I wanted to have friends I shouldn’t be the one doing all of the work in like even reminding my other friends that I am still alive wasn’t bad enough. Like I would absolutely love if somebody just came along and decided that they actually wanted to help me move or to pick me up from somewhere. But I am the one that always had to ask for everything, and unfortunately things don’t always work out like that. Like I’m kinda glad that I do still have this sense of independence, but man being so independent is exhausting. Especially if everyone just forgets that you exist when you don’t remind people that you are still alive.
This describes perfectly a lot of my struggles with making friends as a neurodivergent person. Especially when teachers would put me with other neurodivergent kids expecting us to get along just because we were neurodivergent, like idk most of the times we were really incompatible, mostly because the boys had no sense of respect for other people's boundaries and this would lead to uncomfortable situations, while on the other hand I've always been reserved, hated being touched and needed my own personal space, but since I was a girl, I was expected to be complacent and to not upset others by setting my own boundaries, otherwise I was a bitch. It sucks, it teaches autistic girls and female presenting kids that our needs don't matter.
And yeah, making and keeping friends as an adult is even more difficult. I have few friends and I try not to depend on others, so that I'm not a burden to them. I'm still grateful for them, but I wish we were more of a community.
I wish you the best on your journey, good luck on everything! 🍀
P.s.: I love your Sayla profile picture! She's one of my favourite characters!
Damm, I recognize so much of that story, between me and my sister's experiences... My sister is autistic, (I'm not) and she had a similar experience with the "social groups" being just extremely un-helpful free-for-alls of people with ALL different levels of ability to chill, and all she learned from them, (she has told me) was that too many neurodivergent people all at once is a bad time. Which didn't HAVE to be true, but those groups pretty much were designed to make that the outcome! And you had to suffer the curse of attractiveness too? That's so rough, for real.
My sister didn't develop a natural independent streak, tho, that was what I got. I'm physically disabled now, so I'm also feeling the huge cognitive dissonance of WANTING to do things alone, and also now NEEDING HELP.
I have the same problem with people never texting me first, never offering me help with things I would like them to do for me, like driving me places, unless I ask them, very clearly, every time, and even doing so, doesn't guarantee I'll GET the help I asked for...
I think it's not that they completely "forget I'm alive" - I think it's that they're thinking "aww, they're so independent! They'll be fine without me!" Which, in my case, really isn't true!
And maybe the solution is that I should try to appear... more dependent? More needy? But being nb and afab, that just sounds like a good way to get hurt. :/ Guess I'm stuck being lonely, and carrying a lot of friendship-weight if I want to keep anyone around me!
TLDR - I have some of the exact same problems, and no idea how to fix it, either. It's exhausting, for sure.
It's impossible to find an offline community for Autistic adults where I live. Every service or organisation I've been recommended or looked into is for parents of Autistic children, or they are, as you said, day trips and activities I would have done as a child to make friends. I just want a support group of people who share my experiences and understand the difficulties I face, even leaving aside forming relationships, not a trip to the zoo with a bunch of strangers. I understand other people need and enjoy those services, but I can't handle the inevitable infantilization from the (not Autistic) people who run those services, either.
Pretty women are BRUUUTTTAALLLLIIIZZZEEEDDD in neurodivergent spaces. It’s objectively supremely unsafe for them there.
You people want to be given help voluntarily? Without asking?
Have fun with that I guess.
In my early thirties my unmarried female friends are often busy, the married ones are very busy and the ones that married with children are barely staying alive...
What? Cant you just say Hi I come over and we fold your laundry or whatever task they are drowning in?
@@iknowyouwanttofly that's what family is for. Friends are there to give their children gifts the parents can't afford 😂
That last bit about phone calls I feel like is a really important detail that I’ve been thinking about lately. Because I don’t have my license, I need to get rides and it’s often from my great-aunt who is in her 80’s but incredibly active and healthy with a robust friend circle across all types of people and I think it’s at least in part because they’re obviously older and still uphold the practice of “I called because I was thinking of you!” That feels like such an important detail to maintaining friendships. It has to be specifically a call as well, because the whole reason we (younger generations) don’t like phone calls is because it demands so much of your attention vs. a text but I think that’s what’s most important, making sure your friends know that they are WORTH a moment of your time even if it’s just to say “sorry I can’t talk right now, but thanks for thinking of me! I love you!”
I’m a trans man who grew up as an undiagnosed, very socially anxious young girl and it was torture. As you say in the video, it’s thought to be easy for girls to make friends but I was constantly ostracized by others and did not have the ability to talk to people or make friendships bc of my neurodivergences. This lead to a HUGE amount of self hate and depression, where I basically believed in my first few years of high school that making friends was what gave you value in life, and since I was failing so hard at making any meaningful ones, I was a complete failure and destined to be alone. I broke free of that feeling a lot time ago, but I still do have a hard time making friends, even when I was in university and hadn’t fully transitioned yet. With therapy, life experience and weirdly ADHD meds, I’ve made friends but I still have such a hard time keeping them if we go seperate ways, though I still have a core group of friends from a retail job I had a few years back. As someone who is also disabled and is at home most of the time, I just feel so lonely even though I live at home with family still. Anywho, that was a lot I just typed out but this was a great video, Rowan!
Because we have normalized hyper individualism. Some people ache about feeling lonely after: 1) Agreeing wholeheartedly that you should be ✨mysterious✨ and not reveal too much about yourselves in order to be “”interesting”” or because you don’t trust your own friends 2) Choosing to prioritize yourself over maintaining relationships that you adopt the mindset that you owe nobody your time and are valid to cancel plans with friends for whatever reason that benefits your comfort 3) Affirming to yourself that you’re “too much of an introvert” to mostly avoid the effort of going outside and engaging in human interaction & 4) Spending too much of your existence online that you forget you need to LOG OFF & join a group or class to make friends.
Sometimes it’s hard to make friends, and sometimes y’all don’t want or care to try but want all the benefits of a friendship without the effort of making or maintaining friends.
Numbers 2 and 4 are just symptoms of being disabled, tho. (Source, am disabled)
Your number 1 is what women with autism have been trained by other women to think. We're taught that no one really wants to hear what we have to say. Especially not if it takes more than a few seconds to explain.
I agree with the second point, up to a point. Repeatedly flaking or cancelling plans last minute communicates a lack of interest and respect. But sometimes it's due to a chronic illness or disability.
Cancelling plans is a hugely abusive behavior that everyone feels too damn comfortable with. It’s a complete breakdown of the social contract.
Sorry this is a stupid comment but for 3 and 4 especially; for me at least, I find myself being extremely shy and introverted due to trauma/feeling an extreme sense of people just generally not liking me/wanting to hurt me. Completely irrational? Yes, but that feelings so intense at times that it makes it hard to be vulnerable, because what if they use it against you? To hurt you? (It’s happened before, who’s to say it won’t happen again.). I don’t know where I’m going with this except that I feel certain things maybe be less from others being selfish moreso shit they need to work through??? Idk, for me I have those problems but I know why and just don’t know how to prove that narrative in my head false,, it’s also why I find myself being more open online than irl as well lol.
Lots of assumptions being made, the responses are telling
I’m longing for a sense of community. I lost my job at the beginning of the week and it was the only thread I felt to the people around me. I loved my job I’m devastated about it, I loved to bring joy to the customers and having those little conversations and learning a bit about this persons life in the brief amount of time that we had together….
obviously it varies immensely depending on ur circumstances but personally ive never had an irl friend once, not even an acquaintance so my perspective on this is very different ghshfs. this will definitely be a fascinating watch given the premise
this video hit hard, I've been feeling this pain for a while but unable to put it into words or express it to my friends. honestly a big part of what makes ketchup friendships hard for me, is the resentment that builds when there's no time to fully resolve conflict. it's like-- this is the only time we're hanging out this month, do I really want to "waste" this time on telling you how you hurt my feelings last month? we'd both rather do something fun. but inevitably the resentment and disconnection builds up until I don't even want to see them anymore. being autistic and queer makes all of this so much more complex, because most of the time it's not like they intentionally hurt me, but just triggered me in some way (trauma, RSD, mildly transphobic jokes, etc). then I can't really blame them, and feel like a burden for even bringing it up. we all need queer family so bad.
I’m a trans man, but I still think this video speaks to a lot of thoughts and issues I’ve had swirling around in my mind on the subject of friendships as a whole, so I appreciate you articulating it so beautifully.
One thing as an ace person is that a lot of main socializing people get in their daily life tends to revolve around dating or having a spouse or significant other. I often feel a lot of pressure from others to use dating or marriage as a solution to my loneliness problem, but not all of us want relationships like that. It is very frustrating.
Honestly hearing that a lot of women are lonely too is actually very helpful
The narrative I've always heard is about men, and about how women are just 'doing friendship better' and its men who are lonely. I've never had anyone actually state that, regardless of how women are socialised to build deeper relationships, they still might have a 'loneliness epidemic' of their own.
I felt like friendship was something women werent supposed to struggle with, so I relate to the feeling of shame around it, and genuinely didnt realise that other girls might be lonely too
same :(
When people talk about women issues, do you ever get offended like you do when people talk about male issues? I see a lot of people talking about women issues and ignoring the fact that men go through the same thing.
@@NebulaSon huh?
Noone here is offended. Except you I guess?
Men have issues and that matters, they deserve attention and care 💜
Women have issues too and that also matters 💜
It's not a zero sum game
I was just sharing my experience. I'm glad there is attention around male loneliness, it deserves attention. I just appreciated hearing from lonely women too since I haven't heard them before. One doesn't detract from the other; like I said, not a zero sum game
@@laurenthomas7074 There definitely are people here getting offended about male loneliness and how there's "too much of a focus" on that. So I wouldn't say no one. But you're not one of them. I feel like it's what you said and that we need to look at everyone instead of different groups trying to play misery olympics.
@@joevictor53I guess my issue with “male loneliness” is when influencers or articles kind of blame women for male loneliness, like young men are single, and this makes them depressed, but women are in relationships. This bothers me because it isn’t women’s fault that men are lonely, and it’s not men’s fault women are lonely. I hate when blame is blanketed on women in an internet culture where women are already demonized for negative male feelings. But loneliness does matter, and men’s mental health is very important to address.
i believe it when you said women are SLIGHTLY lonelier than men: new, lonely mothers going into mothers' groups and get bombarded with MLM huns sliding into their DMs, a lack of third places that are close and affordable.
one thing that sticks out to me is that women and girls have a higher standard of friendship while men and boys friendships SEEM to run into the "missing stair" problem. i've seen so many tiktoks of girls experiences with men and complete *strangers* to both the person in the tiktok and an ex-partner saying "that's just the way he is" and we just need to accept that? .... no?! have some self-esteem, bro
Yeah but men don't expect other men to solve their life problems for them so it's easier just to accept how they are. I find so female friendships just too demanding.
@@gauloise6442 Wanting your friends to put emotional labor into the relationship is not the same as expecting them to solve your problems for you.
What do you mean by "missing stair" problem?
The only real answer to who's the loneliest is the rich vs poor. The genders don't need to compete over this ffs
The thing is that men arent less lonely, often they arent taught to expect that to begin with :(
i wouldnt say less lonely, just probably are a bit less numb often?!
"friendships feel like life admin" is EXTREMELY VALIDATING, oooooof.
I put a LOT of 'text first energy' into acquaintance-ships to try and bring them closer into my orbit so that maybe they'll get caught in my gravity and maybe stick around??? It doesn't work. Maybe I'm "supposed to" "be more vulnerable" and instead try to join someone else's orbit??? But that just sounds like a recipe for boundaries-disrespect, and I ain't about that. :(
I have often described myself as "un-magnetic" because I feel very much like my attempts to make friends, as an adult in a new city, have been like slapping paper on a fridge without a magnet - making an initial connection is easy! Getting over my social anxiety to talk to someone ONCE, perfectly doable! And it seems to be pleasant enough! But it never... goes anywhere, ya know.
I've GOT a therapist, and I've TALKED to her about it, but there's not an obvious answer. AM I doing something wrong? Or are the people I'm attempting to friendship-court just not interested and I should move on? How many people do I have to try with, until one sticks??? I don't have the energy for online dating, good effing ghod. I tried it for MONTHS, talked to dozens of people, got like 4 phone numbers, and then they all slowly petered out.
I don't even know what I'm doing wrong, that's the worst part. Cuz if I KNEW, I could change something, for the better! Although, if the answer TRULY WAS, go thru 100 different phone numbers' worth of acquaintances to find ONE good friend... That might literally be too hard. It just might be impossible, then.
Honestly I feel this is more a nowadays problem. People that like to have friends and are good at it already have friends, and nowadays is so little time for everything that people tend to have only a few friends, because is the only thing they can maintain. Others are too busy ho have time to make friends. So, honestly I feel is not necessarily your fault. If that people you are talking to are not looking for friends like you there is literally nothing you can do abut it.
This is happening to me too… I mean, I still talk to my friends I made on College, but they have taken different paths and is very hard to see each other. With my ex best friend we happen to have a lot of misunderstandings and the friendship just broke and we had to move on. I do have a partner and we are very happy but right now I have zero very close friends, and I have just accepted it.
Met someone at the dog park. Got her number. Texted her. She texted back. Then nothing.
I feel it is really difficult to make friendships grow unless there's a common ground and you get to see each other frequently because of external circumstances. For that reason the people I'm closest to today I met at work, bitching and laughing/crying about management lol. Friendships without common ground (work, school, hobby, roommate) can work if both people are really into it and/or willing to make new friends. So I don't think you're doing anything wrong, it's just difficult if the person on the receiving end is not as motivated to meet new friends as you are.
I’m so happy to see you comment because it makes me feel so seen. Down to the therapist & the texting first. You’re doing everything right and yet not seeing the results you want.
I 100% feel you. I am at the point where I have decided that who will be for me will be there and it should feel easy. I do it in the same way I do dating (no apps and mind games, just decentering men in general). Your tribe will find you, give it time. 🤍
I feel exactly this way. You can meet a bunch of people, but you can't connect with them. People aren't going to make time in their schedule for someone they don't really know, but you're not going to really know each other until you spend time together.
@@gingersal8052It becomes something different entirely when new people are consistently not as interested in maintaining friendships as you are, or at putting them at the level beyond the "catch up friend."
I LOVE that you brought up ND/disabled friendships! I (autistic) have more ND friendships now than I ever have, and I've never had more relationships that are so fulfilling! A big thing is how considerate everyone is. From finding places to eat that fits dietary restrictions, to adjusting lighting for sensory needs, and people aren't bothered when I want to physically be around them but I may not have the spoons to actively be involved directly with what they're doing. They're also super communicative about time needs, and are okay saying they can't hang out because of x, y, or z reason- so I'm able to be confident they're hanging out because they want to.
I can attest to stress causing health issues. As a college student, I am the sickest I have ever been in my entire life. I’ll start with having a cold and it’ll progress to more intense illnesses. In the past month alone I’ve dealt with a cold, covid, chronic nausea, chronic fatigue, and thrush. It’s wild out here ya’ll. Make sure to take care of your mental health because intense levels of stress will literally wear you down
I had a similar experience when I started college, and am actually going through a bout of back to back illnesses due to school deadlines and familial stress. I’m sorry that you’ve been so sick, and I wanted to suggest wearing a well-fitted mask to mitigate the amount of illnesses you might develop. I hope your stress eases soon ❤
I’ve been constipated for some time, I’m trying not to do this but my body wants be to run on milk of magnesia, I’m not letting it
It’s gotten to the point I’ve suffered fever and nausea. They say this is enough to call the doctor but, most often than not my body is fine, it’s just broken.
Ramble-y comment from a 24 year old guy. I did a study abroad program through my university two years ago and it was me and 12 girls. We took to each other immediately and honestly it was the first time I'd ever had female friends, even though I've always related with women more than my own gender and always wanted to make a female friend. I would try to talk to girls and girl groups in my literature classes about books and stuff for example but they always had their guard up and didn't take to me. Anyway the first weekend we were there we all got together and went out to a discotheque, and some of them were dancing and I felt awkward, but they gestured with their hand to the other introverted girl and I to come dance with them. I haven't told anyone this but when I got back to my room that night I spent hours crying from happiness, I'd never experienced anything like that before and it was euphoric. I don't know anything about social psychology so I could be totally off base here but I think the reason they took to me so easily with not much of a guard up was that we were all in a "survival" situation (a strong word to use but you get what I mean) being together in a foreign country. I found navigating friendships with most of them difficult, so the euphoria from that night didn't last, but that's honestly fine. Now 2 years on, I've got a couple of friends that unfortunately don't live nearby (one of them is a girl from the study abroad group) but we talk regularly, as well as two friends from childhood (they're like brothers to me) who do live nearby but our friendship has regressed to the "fair-weather" variety because, honestly, they're stoners and I'm not, lol. I'm lonely and I deal with that most days, but I would say I'm not doing that bad really and it could be worse. And that's my experience with topic. Great well-researched video with a fantastic topic as always, Rowan!
Thank you for sharing your experience 💜
I've had similar experiences as a female in my twenties. I attended college classes and club activities for years all without making any lasting friendships outside of that environment. I spent an entire semester in a class where most students knew each other, but I was in a different major so I felt like an outsider. At the end of the semester we went on a weekend field trip and suddenly I made a close bond with 3-5 other students and it was SO. FUN. Months later I took a seasonal job in the middle of nowhere and since everyone else there was in the same boat, I made a couple of really great friendships with guys. However we don't live near each other anymore so even though I text them occasionally I don't know if we'll ever get the chance to hang out again.
Somehow I stumbled into a group of people from a class who wanted to start a D&D group. I joined and by some miracle we meet almost every week. We see each other more than our families. But most of us plan to move out of state soon, and I try not to think about how that will affect me but I can't help it. It's such a rare thing that has happened with us and I will miss it. I hope to find another group of like-minded people like that when we end up parting. :/
Fellow study abroad participant 🙋🏻♀️ I totally understand the survival instinct mentality. For me it was literal. I was in Japan and my Japanese wasn’t very strong despite years of study. To survive we literally had to group together and try our best lol
I always leaned more into female friendships as a woman. It always felt safer to me. But while abroad I made a very close male friend. It’s been 5 years and I still miss him. We clicked and had a great time together. I didn’t feel as though I would be judged for being a mess around him. No makeup and baggy clothes? He wouldn’t care. Maybe that sounds goofy but as a woman I always feel judged by men in particular so it was really nice to not have that.
I desperately miss the weird tight friendships that formed during that period. Nothing quite like it and unlikely to be replicated
Probably also safety in numbers. A lot of guys, even those actually open to friendships with women, will often identify ONE woman they want to connect with and go about this by trying to get her by herself. And of course, for the majority, there's no nefarious intent there, they just want to interact one-on-one. But that will instantly put women on guard.
Groups are safe, and you show that you're safe by extension if you're willing to interact in a group, especially a group of all women. I've been telling guys for years that if you want to DEMONSTRATE that you're a nice guy, let her be the one to initiate your first interaction alone.
I'm sorry you didn't really click with more of your classmates, but it's great that you're still in contact with one! That trip sounds like it was a really powerful experience. Thanks for sharing the story. ❤
Also unsolicited question/advice (in reference to your story, but directed toward anybody delving into the comments): Did you mention to any of them how special that dance ar the discotheque was for you? "Talking about feelings" doesn't need to be hours-long festivals of sobbing and analysis. You could take a step toward forming a more lasting emotional connection with something as simple as "Thanks for inviting me into that dance yesterday. I've never been included in something like that before, and it was really great."
"Thanks" is always a pretty neutral statement, doesn't come on too strong. Making it about inclusion in a group activity rather than something personal alleviates the "Oh, no, is he coming on to me?" concern. "I've never been included in something LIKE THAT" avoids saying something that could be interpreted as needy, like "I've never FELT included" or "I've never been included (without the qualifier)." However, it still also reveals something about you, emotionally, which is kinda the thing you need to do to get into mutually emotionally supportive relationships. It's just a tiny bit vulnerable - as opposed to just saying it was fun and you enjoyed it - because it is implied that this was a new experience.
If you're after friendships with women, can't go wrong with:
- get in with a group and interact with all of them
- if you're most interested in one, NEVER corner her alone
- actually give information about your own experiences and emotions in a positive way
[Start positive; there's an issue with men using their women friends as therapists, which is miserable and exhausting. But once you are friends, of course you have venting rights, like any other friend. But really, guys, talk to your women friends about your wins and joys, too! And of course, reciprocate.]
Sorry that got so general. I just think you gave a really excellent and also heartfelt example of connecting authentically with women as a man and hoped to perhaps break down for others how to make the most of a similar situation to form meaningful connections.
But it's also nice to see people fight this loneliness and friendshiplessness. In Germany, there is this trend "Girls walking and talking" (that's the name we use over here for the trend which came to us from the U.S.A.) - where women of all ages meet at a designated point and to have a chat while walking together. It's much easier to talk to someone when you know that everyone comes to this meeting with the mindset of meeting new potential friends or to at least have a nice chat.
The whole „You need to put in effort“-thing sucks for me personally. I‘m pretty disabled/chronically ill, so I often can’t put effort into anything. Even having a conversation is exhausting.
I am in a similar dilemma.
I don't even have the energy to take care of myself; I generally need help from the outside, but often are not enough to give help back to the people whom I would ask to help me.
Sometimes I am able to do something for others, but those are often the ones who are even worse off than me. ^ ^
@@johannageisel5390 Thanks for response! Feel you!
I can relate to I can't be a good friend um just to messed up physically and mentally
I'm 25 and currently most of my friendships are catch up friendships, and it definitely has aspects of loneliness. One problem is that since leaving college I've worked a lot of very remote isolated jobs and most of my close friends live in completely different cities. For now, and with these friends being so far away I still get a lot of social battery from having catch up friendships with them, but my goal is to move somewhere where I can have more friends in the same place at the same time, and also join more adult extracurriculars like music groups and the local theater community which are great for making those kind of casual friendships that are mostly about being around each other. I think it's really cool that you were able to have a picnic or other such things to get everyone together, but with so much of the world remote and online, I think it's less common for people to even have that many friends in one city nowadays, though I'm definitely working to change that for myself!
Interpersonal relationships have always fascinated me (im autistic lol) and my life changed dramatically for the better when i realized two things:
1. Friends can serve different purposes and meet different needs. Youre never gonna find one person whos absolutely perfect, and putting all your energy into one person is gonna leave you more lonely when theyre not available
2. If you want to do activities with your friends, especially in groups, you have to step up and plan the activities yourself. Like Rowan’s dinner parties, I started hosting regular outdoor parties when I moved to a place with a yard and it made such a positive change to my social circle. Friends who probably wouldntve met otherwise got to connect, I got to see people I dont see super often, and my more introverted friends expressed appreciation at having a low stakes social event to look forward to regularly
No real point to this comment just wanted to share my own experiences and back up some of Rowan’s points
It's scary to make new friendships. And I don't want to spend effort on new people, honestly! When I DO hit it off with a new person, it feels like they already have a life going on and I don't quite fit into it. Or eventually I see a trait that's a bit of an orange flag.
I do spend 90% of my social time with my bf of 8 years.
I have one core old friend and we do hit catch up talk, but also play D&D and go to concerts or watch shows together so I see them at least twice a month. The shared activities helps so much because we get to make new experiences in the moment together instead of only talking. It also helps that I've known them over a decade. But we are not attached to the hip.
I don't want to lose this person!!! If I didn't have them I think I would be very lonely. Our lives are rather similar, where we live, how much we're paid, our interests. It's hitting me how rare that might be 😱
As a queer person living in an extremely homophobic country, finding ppl who wouldn't actively try to convert me and or harm me if I came out is so hard. I feel like I'm the only queer person for miles, I'll build friendships then will be reminded that these ppl will never truly love me and might see my intimacy with them as a way to try to harass and use them. This makes me genuinely scared , I don't want my friendship with ppl and the love I have for them as a way to sa sand abuse the women in my life.
I'm so lonely and I've found myself craving to be in a romantic just for the sake of having someone who will prioritise their relationship with me and give me the physical intimacy I've been missing lately. I've lost friends to their romantic relationships who never gave a damn about the platonic relationship we built together and left me to be with they're boyfriends and I wish I had that. I wish I had a relationship that was seen as a priority, a person who will be there for me and I'll be there for them. I don't even want to be in a romantic relationship but I'm so so lonely I won't even mind it.
I have found myself accepting the fact that I might be isolated for the rest of my life for both for my queerness and leftism.
may i ask where you're from?
i think there would be a lot of people around you in the same boat, living in secret for their own safety. i hope you find someone you can connect with someday.
That is fucking Brutal.
If you're good with english, maybe you good join a D&D group, or another simmilar hobby.
I'm a dude. And not into D&D. So I just Lift and chat with my mates.
But you don't have to go to the Gym to build trust, respect, and comradery. My little sister played final Fantasy XIV, played a healer, and made friends with the people she'd do boss fights with.
You don't have to be isolated. You can find some mates.
Fucking same. I'd also add that every single person in my country older than 24 is married with kids and i'm 27 and single (i'm aro-ace but in my country being anything other than straight is seen the same, so if came out they'd also see my as a threat ????) and everyone around me is constantly pushing my boundaries "why are you single?" "What's wrong with you?" "Get married and have children now, you're not getting younger"
I wish I could hug you through the phone 🫂 Im so sorry :(
Even though I live in a rather accepting country and therefore can't really relate to that part of your comment, the part about wishing for a relationship that is seen as a priority really resonates with me. I just wish there was someone to whom our relationship would be the most important one, be it a romantic one (even though I'm not even sure if that's something I can do) or a platonic one.
I really love your suggestions to remedy to the loneliness. I used to have quite a lot of friends and we were all gathered around the place I used to live in-with my ex partner. The house in itself was an important element of union. I tried to redo that later on when I lived close to university, capturing people after the pub so the could have a sleepover on my sofa.
Now I’m a precarious freelancer with friends who have partners, spouses and stable jobs. It also doesn’t help that I developed PTSD after domestic violence, which had the effect to transform what I used to feel as reassuring and nice into clinical triggers. This makes extra difficult to catch up with friends who were close to me before because there is a layer of shame that overwhelms the whole thing, and I have lost the low key surface that helped me to hold everything together before. Now I can’t just bump into someone, it’s very intentional and there is that expectation to perform that I find profoundly exhausting.
Up to an extent I have used work as a way to keep mingling together (I work in games and art so the corporate blabbering is much less present) but it also has limitations. I kind of wish that my apartment became again that meeting point where people can drop at, but I’m living away from most of my friends due to rent soaring and the financial difficulties that also came as an aftermath of all the PTSD. It’s like all oppressions have allied together to corner you into an inextricable hole. It fucking sucks.
thank you for talking about this. good friendships feel like the foundational element to longterm happiness to me, and dedicating myself to making them flourish has been incredibly rewarding so far. there's still so much to learn.
i think i'm experiencing that post-uni thing while at uni... i'm a phd student, i was at a pretty normal uni for undergrad and now i'm at cambridge. i made friends, including one really good friend, but they are (or were when we met) all undergrads. cambridge is a deeply pressurized environment - everyone is very very busy all the time, everyone is stressed, nobody has the time to do anything fun, and when they do have free time they just want to rest. they're too burnt out. it doesn't look like it when you see social media accounts from cambridge students, but in my experience i can barely get a text back from people. we want to show up for each other emotionally, but it's rare anyone has the emotional capacity. cambridge is socially the way my undergrad uni was like during exam season, but all year round. i have better friends - healthier friendships - now, but i'm lonelier than ever.
i just have this internal sense of dread about friendship. i dont think i'll ever have it. i was homeschooled for the entirety of K-12. i'm in college now and i havent been able to make any friends, partially due to inexperience and intense social anxiety. im scared its too late for me.
i don't think there is any point where it's "too late" for someone. i also have pretty bad social anxiety and there are definitely times where i've done or said the wrong thing to friends but you don't need to be perfect in friendships. actually going up and talking to new people is the hardest part for me, but even if i make some social misstep or something, people are usually more forgiving than you think. i really hope you don't give up, bc i 100% believe at one point, things will be better than they are today!!
Yeah, being home schooled can suck. The feeling that you can't relate, almost as if you were an alien who was drop on earth to live with the humans, eases up as you have more shared experiences with more people that are outside of your family. It's not too late for you, but I think you should try to make sure that the fear of "it being to late for you" doesn't turn into a fear of "This is my only shot at having a friend, so I can't mess this up." when you find someone that you click with. which could make it much harder to connect with them, because you may be focused on not doing anything wrong YOURSELF, and not focusing on being curious about them. I hope that my words have encouraged you a little, I know that being home schooled can feel isolating at times. but as long as you don't run away (this includes using your phone as a distraction in social situations, and avoiding social events.) when your social anxiety kicks in, I think you have a pretty good shot at making friends.
I’m in a pretty similar situation and also looking for friends :). I’ll add you in discord if you’re open to being friends with an internet rando
another former homeschooled person with social anxiety here too. there is hope! you’ll be surprised by how many non-homeschooled people also struggle to make friends. just keep growing yourself as a person, keep exploring, and try things you’re interested in. i personally find activity-based groups the easiest for me to meet people.
biggest thing: start learning how to care for your mental health so you can be a good friend and so you’re less vulnerable to bad friends. you’ve got this!! i absolutely believe in you ✨✨
Incredible video! I wanted to contribute to your point about being Asexual and Lesbian. As a sapphic ace myself and cisish woman, I find the line between "romantic" and "platonic" behaviors with other women incredibly blurry. The way that I interact with my close friends isn't that far removed from how I'd interact with a romantic partner. We're constantly flirting/hyping each other up commenting on how hot everyone is, having deep conversations, sitting on each others laps, cuddling, having sleep overs, cooking each other meals, saying "I love you", etc.
For me, the only thing that would turn any of these friendships into a romanic relationship would be relabeling the relationship as romantic. And I think thats sooo interesting. For those of us outside the allo and heteronormative world expressing love to those we care about, takes on many forms and is not limited to whats considered "standard". It can factor in behaviors that would typically be reserved for romantic partnerships.
People have been losing empathy at exceptional rates since Covid. That’s what this is. Selfishness. I’ve learned to leave those types of friends alone, and open space for real ones
I have literally stopped trying to celebrate my birthday with friends. I have a partner and kids, so it's easier now to do, but since leaving uni (more than 10 years ago) any time i tried to plan anything with friends, i was always disappointed. Either people wouldn't be available, or not even seem interested, although i do try to come through for them when it comes to milestones like that. I'm often busy in my everyday life, and i don't blame people for being busy and falling off, but i am often left in the lurch if i try to plan anything structured.
I hate saying this, but part of the problem is introverts making every excuse to not see friends or cancle plans. People bragging online about how little they want to spend quality time with people and nkt making the effort to text back. Again, i hate saying this as I am an introvert as well. It has gotten to a point where the introvert community where we forget that we have to nurture relationships to keep them. We can't expect people to want to be friends with us if we are all take and no give. I had to learn the hard way that the more you complain about hanging out with people, they will leave you. They will stop inviting you out. They will stop caring. Like I said, I hate having to say this. However, the romantisization of neglecting frindships from introverts has gone too far.
When i was 11 my best friend decided she didnt want be in the same class as me anymore as we moved to our equivalent of middle school. It hurt me deeply and it took me many years to discover that that basically started my fear of abandonment.
It influenced so much in my life while for her it was just not the same.
So yeah that thing you said that every girl you talked to had that one girl whose friend break up plays such an important role... i very much recognize that
Literally thought about this the other day and didn’t say a word to anyone and your video appears. I’m convinced the algorithm knows how to read minds now 😭
one of the first things I establish with potential friends is that I will not be the "text/talk every day" type, I value my alone time highly
in fact if they're the type of person to get anxious if I don't talk to them for a couple weeks then it's not going to work.
there's a reason my bestie and I can go literal YEARS without talking then meet up like we saw each other yesterday, that's just how we are 😂
Commenting before the video starts haha but I haven't had friends to talk to on a semi regular basis in like, probably over a decade. I have my partner which is wonderful but it'd be nice to have someone to share hobbies with. If we're talking COVID though, I had nobody to talk to for 4 months straight. At all. It felt like I was forgetting how to talk lol.
That covid lock down sounds fucking brutal.
I was lucky to have three mates to go out into the mountains to train with.
I salute your resiliency for making through it with just your partner.
Hopefully in the future you'll find some mates to muck around with. Even if its just going out for ice cream to have a chat. Or taking a job with them before work.
@@robertkeaney9905 oh I was single at the time haha just me and my cat
@@junipermarsh6590 Cats are good too.
I both had and have no friends outside of the internet. It's quite the trial.
If you have some spare time, and you don't have a phsyical disability. Then joining an amateur sports team can really help.
Kicking the ball about tends to break down barriers. It makes things effortless.
Which is why its so unfair that lads with injuries can't kick about any more, or they can't play as long as they used to. Its a bloody shame it is.
I have a gigantic *stack* of friendship breakups and a couple dating breakups… I’m always being alone. I always try to comfort myself with the idea it’s better to be alone than in bad company, but it’s left me with only the horrible family relationships and generally just mediocre work relationships. It’s wild.
The problem with actively giving suggestions about how to help friends is that people HATE being helped and see it as a dismissal of their feelings. How many conversations have I had with people who are constantly annoyed by their partner trying to "fix it" rather than respond with "wow that sucks?"
People aren't used to helping others or receiving help, so they react with hostility when you try to extend that, seeing it as either an attempt to avoid or dismiss their feelings or a judgement on their own ability.
I think the sort of conversation you had with your friends about *intentionality* is the only way to avoid that: be up front about "I want to help my friends more as a way of deepening our friendship" BEFORE extending a hand that will just get slapped away.
I don’t think it’s wrong to just want someone to listen to you though. It’s definitely important to communicate that, but not all intimacy has to be fixer intimacy. I think part of maintaining relationships is showing up in a way that’s helpful to the other person, and vice versa. There is a range of support and relationship that’s equally important to cultivate
People don't hate being helped. The desire to be heard and understood is separate from the desire to be helped. Sometimes people can solve their problems on their own and just need someone to vent to and be compassionate. Skipping the listening part and jumping straight to the solving part means you're not helping with what they really need help with - processing their emotions and feeling loved and cared for in spite of whatever is going wrong.
I try and ask, "do you need help with this, or to be heard?" (In a genuine sense) i often try problem solving off the bat in an effort to help. I used to be a "wow that sucks" person when i had less confidence in my words, but now i realize its a line to balance and we have our friends because we like their perspectives. I have had moments trying to just wax poetic, then to have it taken literally so it can be resolved. Sometimes just jiving and riffing is what we need as a friend in need, not an armchair psych or simple placid coaxes anyone could tell you.
@barbietarbox yea I've heard the same advice. Sometimes people want solutions and sometimes they just want to vent.
"Helping" =/= "Fixing the problem"
Be honest with yourself: Are you going into "problem solving mode" because you actually have knowledge that they don't that could help them out or is it just your way of saying "I'm sorry about that, you deserve to get out of that situation"? In my experience, it's oftentimes the latter, particularly in the partner angle you suggested.
Especially when you're not involved in the situation yourself, suggesting solutions oftentimes doesn't actually do anything because chances are your friend is already doing everything they can. If they're coming to you for advice or you have specific knowledge on the topic at hand that they don't, go ahead by all means, but suggesting extremely generic and obvious ways to fix a situation you only know a glimpse of as though the person actually in that situation would never think to do that themselves is kind of frustrating. Sometimes, you just can't "help" like that and it's better to admit defeat and just verbalize that you care than to pretend that you can "help".
I feel like as I guy, the gender difference thing in friendships is a bigger deal than people want to say it is. If I'm friends with a girl it feels like I'm not allowed to be attracted to them; that I have make it clear I'm not. Like I can spend years being friends with someone but if I become attracted to them and ask them out and get rejected, then they won't look at me as a friend anymore. Like I can take a hint, but now everythings changed and it's ruined. I've seen this happen to enough to other guy friends that I'm just confused how modern healthy relationships start at all, it just seems like an eternal loneliness trap to me. When a gay friend of ours hit on me, it didn't change how I viewed them at all. I just told them not interested and that was that.
This is a thing I've experienced with Outer Circle friends and not a thing I've experienced with Close Friends but I am AuDHD and lucky enough to be surrounded by peers who get me and formed strong enough bonds that we actually share life problems like only people who are related by blood usually do.
My friendship group spawned from blabbing about niche nerd crap at a meetup, with one guy at the center who got us all to call each other more. Now I really feel like having kinship with Ultra Dorks that talk to each other about literally anything is special.
I want to shout sometimes that we could all operate like my Pathfinder group and talk about our deepest dumb wishes that we play out in a fictional setting - then give each other rides to surgery, or pool resources to get a game console none of us can afford alone and pass it around, then share drama and talk about the depths of depression.
But- also I get why this is rare. I have other friends I'm not like this with that I care deeply about but I shiver at trying to describe my career trainwreck to them. The barrier there is somewhat how much they reach out and somewhat how much tolerance they have for honest sharing and being... cringe? Vulnerable? I can't write a tutorial for someone else on how to go from details about tabletop game stat blocks to me and all of my dork brethren taking shifts on depression watch for a friend that was in serious trouble. It just felt natural to all of us to show up for our friend no matter what. Our bond was way beyond shared interest even though it grew from that.
I want to say the NT's don't know how to do this but my mom has friends this close too and she's a Boomer not diagnosed with anything and has normal hobbies. I'm sure I picked up something about calling your friend when they're struggling and then showing up with a casserole and a helping hand, I can't even begin to explain how this sublimated into me fixing computers instead of handing over casserole and talking about the struggle that is life. I don't do that with everybody though- I would if I could but I can't. I don't know why some people click with me and form a tribe and others don't. I wish I had a formula to share.
And sorry I don't know if this rambling comment even got anywhere- I think meaningful connection is possible but so nebulous I can't leave a recipe even though I really really want to.
Why yes, spending 60-80% of your waking life selling your labor in order to survive _does_ make it hard to avoid loneliness.
...not sure why we're acting like this is news, though. Alienation under capitalism driving us away from our communities is like, over a hundred years of discourse ago.
I have basically no friends. :(
Time is not really the matter, but finding people I like and who like me back.
Weekly and bi-weekly boardgame groups with friends have been one of the greatest thing to ever happen to me :)