Halo's Longsword is the MOST Realistic Star Fighter in Sci Fi
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- The GT-LA1 Longsword was one of the most pivotal spacecraft in defeating the Covenant, but wasn't talked about much. Appearing first in Halo CE, it's been part of Halo since the original days. A mix of both an Interceptor and a Bomber, the Longsword is versatile and stealthy, dominating both space and air combat. Despite being humanity's premier star fighter, it doesn't get a lot of praise. In this week's video we discuss the role of the Longsword in space warfare, its stealth characteristics, and its closest resemblance in the real world.
Halo Reach Longsword Mod by Zinkles87 - • Halo Reach Mods Flying...
Special credit goes to the many public videos and photos used to illustrate different vehicles and life in the US Military.
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For those interested in real world aircraft, the B-21 Raider will be publicly unveiled this evening at 7PM EST. This is the aircraft I compared the Longsword to and represents the future of bomber aircraft in the United States' arsenal.
I was literally about to ask you about the B-21 and I saw this
Having features associated with realism and considerations to the concepts of realism does not in itself, make something realistic. Specialization, equivalency, inspiration does not create realism. Realism is born of a thing being the optimal answer to a problem, not within the frame-of-reference of humans, but of the problem.
It is designed to be "what we'd like a starfighter to be like in space", not "what makes sense for a starfighter, in space".
This thing has glass windows, and a pressurized canopy, its designed around a forward flight path style of mobility (not 6dof), its weapon-stations all point in a single direction and critically, its manned. The longsword is a highly considered and well designed thing, but it is ultimately a thing which is meant to make humans feel good, not win a war. Some of those feelings involve feeling that the thing invokes real things based on our current common understanding of war, rather than how war itself truly functions. There's no reason fiction can't explore those ideas and make them newly gratifying, and yet it continues to choose not to, because its harder to use imagination than to fall back on ideas that already exist.
Dogfighting is dead for a reason and better computers are already killing stealth. The real world is wild. I wish scifi would explore that more.
7:43 I love how in this scene the longsword pilots request permission to strike targets after they've already dropped their bombs
I always love when they request a bombing run on a specific heading to a decimal point. Plus minus 30 baby, the bomb will hit where it needs to.
Isn't it the frigates asking?
@@mjpraetorian4386 I imagine it would have been the frigates. The UNSC secondary battery guns are serious firepower and are not intended for use against ground targets. Better to make sure the line of fire and target area is clear of friendlies
@@hammer1349 I thought so too
It's the frigate, one of my favourite halo scenes, you see them ask for clearance then open up, it's not quite as visible with the magnitude of the scene, air battles, longsword strikes, exploding aa gun, battles in the distant
Those guns are Electromagnetic canons, the bullets are so fast that they are imbued in plasma because of air friction when shoot in atmosphere, they can hit Seraph that casually travel at dozens o more than houndred km/s, the Big Variant can shoot at incoming missiles or enemy craft chasing him because the 120mm is a turret, it could probably act as AA standing over allied troops to shoot down incoming missiles, when your gun shoots bullets at those speed it would be almost like a laser when that bullet can reach a misile at 15 km in one second.
Electromagnetic cannons AKA Railguns
Those things are unbelievably powerful and the problem is the gun breaking down after every shot.
My solution is to run an ultra-cold liquid in the barrel that can recycle (like liquid cooled computers)
@@ultralaggerREV1 acually Coilguns, instead of rails they use coils to accelerate the bullets, the UNSC used cooling chemicals for their reactors, their heat managment is insane, Halo humanity may seem primitive but their tech is far superior than modern earth combined.
@@ultralaggerREV1
Their materials science is 500 years ahead of ours. The problems we have now, they do not.
@@combativeThinker and lets not forget....we never stopped killing each other even after we started colonising
Nice minor spelling mistake chucklenuts
The fighter in Halo CE was twice the size of the versions in Halo Reach. The Halo Encyclopedia gives the Longsword's dimensions as 64m (210') long, 75m (246') wide, and 12.9m (42.3') tall. That is considerably larger than the B1 Lancer/"Bone", putting it more in line with gigantic cargo aircraft like the C-5. This makes the Halo CE version of the Longsword absolutely friggin' MASSIVE: you'd need a space only somewhat smaller than the size of a soccer field to park one.
But you'd probably need a plane that size if you're planning to put absolutely ludicrous weapons like *110mm autocannons* on it. Cabezon is correct when he says fighters don't usually carry anything that large, but that dramatically understates the issue. _AC-130 gunships_ don't carry anything that large: their largest-caliber weapon is a modified 105mm artillery cannon, and that gets manually reloaded after each shot. The mighty GAU-8 'Avenger' rotary cannon mounted on the A-10 Warthog is the size of a VW Beetle, and that monster is chambered in 30mm. Scaling that up to fire shells the size of what main battle tanks use probably means a gun the size of a city bus.
Not to mention it implies the Longsword has one absolute nightmare of a recoil management system. It's a myth that the A-10's gun recoils so hard it risks stalling the plane out, but it does take a lot of reinforcing and impact-dampening to keep the recoil from damaging the plane - and that's just for a rotary 30mm. A fully-automatic 110mm would risk tearing the fighter apart in midair without something really special to handle the kick.
" A fully-automatic 110mm would risk tearing the fighter apart in midair without something really special to handle the kick."
The MiG-27 is a modified MiG-23, it was fitted with a gun that was too powerful for it's airframe, as a result, it disrupted on board avionics and instruments, and that was just on a "good day", otherwise the gun would dislodge itself and end up shooting up into the airframe.
But the Longsword's guns are electromagnetic canons, so we can assume that recoil is not really an issue as much as it is mag capacity, power and heat distribution, as given the size of the Longsword, it can't carry that many rounds. We also have to assume most modern UNSC vehicles and equipment are powered sufficiently to provide adequate power to these coil guns, and today's modern railguns require at least 15-30MW of power, which is just over a quarter of what modern US aircraft carriers produce, which is a LOT of energy. Mainly, the heat generated by firing a single round of this caliber has to be ridiculous. The materials the mechanisms and airframe would need to be made of is likely titanium, and assuming recoil is an issue, it would cause severe stress fractures on the frame on which these canons are mounted.
@@StarwarsHalofreak The physics are still the same, if you are accelerating a physical projectile in one direction the same force is acting in the other direction, doesn't matter if it's a propellant or electromagnetic cannon.
To get up the the speeds inherent in space combat you'd need 1000's G's of acceleration and the recoil would be massive
110mm is an absolute monster of a projectile but being fired by a railgun, it would be about ⅔ shorter than a conventional chemical round. So all that space taken up by casing and powder could be taken up by another round.
The real question is how did we overcome the heat issue in order to make a autorailcannon? The recoil would be about 25% less than a chemical round but still insane with a 110mm projectile. Maybe why Swords are so friggin massive. All that weight is to offset the recoil momentum.
He's referencing the C712 Longsword's dimensions. The C709 is comically massive, and I think that's why Bungie pivoted away from it toward the C712, and 343 toward the C718. Those aircraft, while massive, at least fit both form and function.
To me, the longsword is realistic-ish simply because of its size. Most sci-fiction/fantasy shows always have fighters the size of modern day fighters the size of F-15s and smaller than an f-16(which is understandable for filmmakers, you need enough space for the cameras to film the actors and enough space for film sets after all. And the miniatures to be cheap) But the longsword, is the size of a bomber, and bigger depending on the variant (The B-36 convair and B-52 is around 49 meters long. While the longsword depending on variant is around 64 meters long). Bomber sized space fighters make much more sense and believable.
Hell, 40k even has a realistic-ish space fighter, ironically for a fantasy in space setting, called the Fury interceptor and some patterns are mentioned to be 60 to 70 meters long. Though the art in the wiki doesn't have it in the right scale.
Unfortunately for 40k every other starfighter, with the exception of Craftworlder ones and the T'au Barracuda, are bricks of mind(warp?)f-kery
Edit: Removed Necron ones because the metal croissants shouldn't fly
Most starfighters are half the size of an F-15 at most.
@@Tar-Numendil most starfighters from where
@@eyeballpapercut4400 wait what, i dont understand what you mean? :P
I mean depends I think the future of space fights wouldnt really be close to conventional... It would mostly be small drone swarms... Like bunshee size or less and mostly unmanned. But regarthless the longsword is still plausible, with the AI advancement and/or jamming its plausable drones could be easely compromised so manned craft would still be required, and the longsword if a brilliant multirole beast.
the lonsword is one of my favourites because of how badass it is. Like heck i even have a t shirt with three of them on
Where'd you get it?
@@TheBeastInBlackmight be installation 00. He sells long sword merch!
For reference about the autocannon mentioned at 1:50, the IRL M1A2 Abrams main battle tank, operated by the United States Army, uses a manually loaded cannon that measures 120mm, just 10mm bigger than the autocannon in question for each round fired.
Navies rock 100, 127, and 130mm autoloaders pushing 40RPM+, but those mechanical crew are rather different from the giant machine gun that is autocannon
One thing you may wish to know is that the bomber variant you’re talking about is called the short-sword. It’s a separate aircraft.
You're right, the Shortsword is a dedicated bomber, and is much smaller. But the Longsword is a multirole fighter, capable of handling both intercepter and bomber roles, as well as operating in both space and atmospheres, whereas the Shortsword is atmosphere only.
#HaloPositivity #HaloLoreIsAwesome
Loved the design of these fighters and nerding out over then. Even Installation 00 dispute of the warthog runs scale to these fighters
I always loved the Longsword as the B2 was my favorite aircraft. Is also kinda funny to me. How the longsword was the only strike craft, besides the Saber, board and shortsword we saw for so long.
Anyways, as a engineer and fellow man of the military who loves halo. Keep up the good work my guy.
Man, this is a great halo channel. Also, yesterday u were 759 subs(w/me) now ur 1.06k. That is awesome!
Glad to see someone else is doing halo military content, its tragically underrepresented
Wow, thanks everyone for the likes. C ya
I thought it had more of a bird like appearance. Halo had all human vehicles represented by land and air animals while the covenant look like fish or crustaceans.
I would argue the Longsword is more a strike fighter than a space superiority fighter. The Broadsword (that unsightly thing) and the Sabre (that beautiful thing) fit more into the superiority role as they're more agile, smaller and lighter and more designed for anti-fighter stuff. They lack the weaponry to do much damage to capital ships, whereas the Longsword still has a lot of punch against such large targets.
I would argue the Longsword's IRL counterpart would be something like the De Havilland D.H.98 Mosquito, as they are both fighter-bombers capable of punching far above their weight. The Mosquito had many variants including night fighters (which are sort of air superiority, but at night), anti-sub (with a 57mm cannon for blasting holes in U-boats), and a deep strike bomber variant (the B.IV, which could carry the 4000lb Cookie bomb).
Isn't there short sword haswell could of swore the was
@@dragoontype00alphaz19yeah I know it’s in halo wars
Guns would actually make a lot of sense in space if you think about it. One of the notes as technology gets better is that jamming missiles will be key. While they're still going to play an important role for BVO tactics, for anything within the visual range you'll want to have your guns to punch through armor and shields to hopefully disable those jamming systems.
@That Guy Except lasers scatter, it's one of those nasty properties of light. A kinetic projectile makes a ton of sense, in space there isn't really any drag of note. So once fired, it's just going to keep going.
@@alonedoughnut all depends on wavelength, for wavelength determines defraction rate. Masers (microwave lasers) are the worst, IR is slightly better (but still pretty freaking bad), visual is decent (but not good), UV is pretty good (has a defraction rate of _megameters_ or 1000 kilometers), X-Rays are damn impressive (have a defraction rate of _lightseconds_ which is nasty, and to put the cherry on top they are even more damaging in pulse-laser configuration), and Gamma Rays are _simply ludictrous_ (... a defraction rate in light _minutes_ (i.e. how far light travels in a minute) which is overkill and the damage models is insane).
Basically, the shorter the wavelength, the better it is.
Another aircraft that I reckon informed the Longsword's design is the Nighthawk, due to how angular the Longsword is and the fact that it has a vertical tail like the Nighthawk did (albiet the Nighthawk's tail was a different design)
Really enjoying the Halo content on your channel, it all feels very fresh and I like your comparisons to real world military technology.
Babylon 5's Starfury wants to talk to you! - Seriously, even NASA said that the regular Starfury from Babylon 5 is quite realistic (especially that it can't enter an atmosphere and that it has a lot of thrusters to turn the fighter etc.)
@@TheGrimmChannel A little late I know but they do have artificial gravity in B5. It is just so advanced that only a few ship classes really use it. When it is used it is also used for propelling ships and other stuff like weapons.
Not sure about the lore but a starfighter which I presume can travel for long distance SHOULD have a larger interior, A simple bed, kitchen and bathroom and the Long Sword would lend well to that and should IMO have a slipspace drive to stay in formation when going in and out of slipspace similar to the X-Wing in Star Wars.
As cool and as practical as it may sound something like that wouldn’t make sense seeing how it operates and deploys from ships to support said ships
That's not how it works in Halo, anything smaller than battleships can't enter Slipspace because of the enormous pressure, not even Covenant ships without upgrades. There's no practical reason to have any of that when Longswords aren't meant for long distance travel.
@@nagger8216 What about a D81 Condor equipped with a slipspace drive? It's just a longer and fatter pelican but capable of long-distance travel through slipspace.
@@jotheassassin872 That's dumb 343 lore that constantly contradicts whatever was previously established, I don't consider that garbage canon
@@nagger8216 I get where you're coming from but at this point it's officially cannon as 343 has had Halo for over a decade and now longer than Bungie did. It does suck when they just contradict statements though.
The CZcams Gods blessed me today in finding such a good lore channel for halo
keep in mind mostly all of the UNSC shipboard weapons are coil guns
Something else you have to consider with the gun armament for the longsword. Titanium A used on warships etc can withstand plasma impacts while still remaining fairly effective. The very high velocity and high penetrative properties of the coil guns are basically needed in order to do any real damage. The covenant dedicated fighter craft like the seraph also have energy shielding which a one and done missile could pop the shield but would leave the craft itself unharmed. In the game Halo Reach when flying the Sabre, you are told specifically to pop the shields with the guns and then kill with the missiles
Hell yeah I was so waiting for somebody to put out a good Longsword video and bro you did it! Thank you sir for feeding my hunger for Halo lore
I've always loved Halo and your channel really makes me wish we had a good TTRPG for it. I'd love to do a band of brothers style story with some avid fans. Keep up the great work man. Writers, game designers and fans alike love stuff like this.
Look into the Genesys system. There is a decent community made Halo setting. Genesys handles modern weaponry (and analogues to it, like Blasters in star wars) very well.
It is alot more armed and has more deadly weapons then most starfighter concepts in Sci fi.
One little tidbit: It's not just the shape of the B-2 that aids in staying off RADAR, it's the paint. Stealth aircraft have RADAR absorbent paint coatings (the composition of which is classified, at least until the War Thunder forum starts an argument about it) that prevent it from showing up because the paint soaks up the RADAR wave and doesn't allow it to return to the point of origin.
I’m glad you brought up the comparison to the F-15. That’s exactly what I thought when you said that both were the same airframe but had different specialized roles that could still do the others’. Also that thumbnail is sick. I have a picture in my living room of a BUFF that my dad flew on at BAFB with all of its weapons spread out in front of it.
We need a mission at some point where we fly a Longsword
Something I'd like to point out is that i think the 100mm+ auto cannons are the result of a misunderstanding of weapons terminology. They have done the same thing with sniper rifle in the books, stating that it was 114 mm. That is the length of the case, not the diameter of the projectile, which is 14.5mm. The "100mm" auto cannon it probably somewhere between a 20 and 30mm autocannon. In real life, the 20mm Vulcan fires a 20 × 102mm round, and The Gau 8 Avenger (the gun on the A-10) fires a 30 × 173mm round. There are 50 and even 76mm autocannons but they're gigantic and carrying enough ammo for multiple of them on a single aircraft would be an insane feat
Can you do a video on the f41 broadsword? I like it more than the Longsword because it's a better fighter jet design.
Ngl, the Saber fighter from Reach always struck me more as a conventional jet fighter with space capabilities. I wonder why the saber wasn't used as much as the longsword was?
To put things into perspective, 90mm is one of the sizes of tank shells and is the same shell used in the Scorpion. 120mm is used by the Abrams and by an upgraded Scorpion type and the Grizzly. The largest type of Longsword has several 90mm _gatling guns_ and a 120mm turret. And it has _rear_ 90mm guns and missile launchers, too.
Now imagine if a Battlestar could deploy a wing of these in escort with vipers they’d be untouchable.
People tend to not realize that in the lore it is called an interceptor because it is meant to intercept _ships._ When fighting enemy fighters, it goes Macross Missile Massacre out of the front _and rear._ So, it didn't really do much dog-fighting. More like "Push button and enemies explode". Which, given the tech disparity against the Covenant, was probably far more effective than trying to fight them on their own terms would have been anyway. Their main weakness was the infrequency of using nukes, which is true for the UNSC in general. By their time, it should be dirt cheap and extremely quick and easy to build powerful nuclear weapons. And Uranium, Plutonium, etc. are rare on Earth but not really in other places in even nearby star systems. There's really no excuse, given how extremely effective they are against the Covenant both in stripping shields and in temporarily disabling their weapon systems. Add things like the Bident missile, which is a nuclear-pumped laser, and...yeah, you kinda just have to ignore the books when it comes to the war. I mean, the books even expect us to believe we only fought Grunts and a few Jackals until the Fall of Reach. Pfft, no.
I like how in Halo 3 during the attack on the Keyship, the Covenant completely ignored the UNSC attackers other than getting out of the way because they knew the UNSC was unable to damage it.
The main use for stealth is to make it very hard to get a lock for any weapon system on the aircraft. It also makes breaking locks and evading easier. Especially since a lot of missiles are designed to detonate within a certain distance of a target to fire what is basically a shotgun blast. If the missile or whatever is guiding it thinks the aircraft is far smaller than it actually is, that range at which it detonates is artificially increased, which also gives you more room for error to evade safely.
The Gunstar and StarFury have entered the chat.
C712 was likely the economy version of the 709, given size and armaments.
EM guns in UNSC aircraft are coilguns.
709 also has ventral, turreted 120mm cannons. 709's an all-in-one model.
The fact that the thing glides in space, ignoring any laws of physics, already rules it out as the most realistic.
Thé B-2 is actually surprisingly small
I would love your opinion on the condor even though it makes very few appearances outside of Halo Wars (also it appears in Infinite). I love the G81 Condor from Halo wars 2 with its Mini-MAC and dual Lasers.
The reason why fighter aircraft have guns now, and will likely have them in future designs be it directed energy or something else, is because of the lessons learnt in the Vietnam war when the Airforce said the Phantom didn't need a gun and missiles were the future, then after the amount of losses the early models had, they later models had an internal gun installed on the airframe. At the end of the day, you'll still need something for knife fighting and an over reliance on missiles that can lose lock etc will leave a fighter at risk of being whacked.
That's a myth. Phantoms did fly with guns regularly, albeit with mounted pod variants. The poor missile performance was figured to be down to poor crew training, in pilots as well as in ground crew handling and ordnance maintenance. While the introduction of a dedicated nose cannon certainly contributed to some degree of increased pilot performance, it was mostly the induction of the USAF "Top Gun" (yeah, that Top Gun) school that made the most difference, as it was shown that the Navy F4's performance also increased at the same time despite never being equipped with a cannon.
The never ending cycle of the flying wing lol
I am going to have to disagree with your decision. The most realistic depiction of a space-faring combat vessel, more specifically a fighter class, would have to be the Rocinante from the tv series "The Expanse". Aside from it's propulsion system, nearly everything about that ship is scientifically accurate and works within the laws of physics. How it maneuvers in space when traveling, flying with a constant 1g of thrust then flipping and slowing down with a constant 1g of thrust, or in getting around a station with multiple engines that let out little bursts of energy placed on different areas of the ship for very accurate control. This is just the basics, there is so much more about the ship that is based on staying within the bounds of reality. All the ships of that show did, again aside from their main form of propulsion, but this video said star fighter so I picked the Roci since it is a small combat focused spaceship and the one that is most familiar since you spend half the series on the ship.
Agreed on this, a realistic "space fighter" would be more like what we would typically consider a gunboat, since a fighter jet analogue like a longsword, viper, or xwing isn't really feasible in real life. I could maybe see it get a little smaller I'd you fully commit to the idea of a carrier fighter, so think a corvette but with all things needed for long term habitation such as galley, quarters, and cargo bays stripped out as well as fuel tanks and other such things, it could be likely a third smaller. Still though, you're looking at "fighters" which are really 4-5 mam gunboats that act as screening ships for the big boats, at which point a full size corvette makes more sense as it can be detached for extended patrols
@@battleoid2411 In the Expanse the Roci was classified as a Corvette, quote "The Rocinante ("Roci") is a former MCRN (Martian Congressional Republic Navy)-turned-independent Corvette-class frigate capable of multiple combat roles. Originally commissioned as the MCRN Tachi (ECF-270), the ship was stationed aboard the flagship of the Martian navy, the MCRN Donnager." With the Donnager being the flagship Battleship for the Martian Navy.
@@ctmackenn uh yeah, that's why I refer to it as a corvette
For more traditional space fighters, the most realisic has to be the Starfighter inc./In The Black game, which is more realistic than The Expanse in terms of tech, and features the classic jet fighter-sized space fighters. They are justified in the setting in a particuliarly interesting and unique way, as it's the result of corporations waging proxy-wars against each other using mercenary pilots and small crafts, since a fight between large warships would terrify the population of the Solar system and result in the companies making enormous losses in benefits as a result, on both sides of the engagement.
A close second has to be the design of the Starfury in Babylon 5, as NASA itself was interested in it and asked for permission to use the overall design concept for a potential "space forklift". It's mostly realistic, though fighters in that show are debatable in terms of usefulness, and the show itself is overall soft sci-fi.
@@ctmackenn Technically, that makes the Rocinante a Frigate. It's part of the Corvette-class, but the type of the vessel is Light Frigate. Corvette here leads to confusion, but is not an actual ship classification in the Expanse, it's more like the Arleigh Burke, as it just is a class of ship, its base model. But that's mostly just detail and semantics regardless.
Flying wings are my favorite aircraft designs.
Halo's main weakness is a lot of the things the developers viewed as science fiction has, within the next couple decades, become common use in the US military and several others.
The coilguns actually excel at long-range. One of humanity's few advantages of the Covenant was the much greater range of our weapons. Even though the MACs were very poorly used as the UNSC could have equipped them with various kinds of shells with even things like nuclear cores (not intended to hit, but activate near ships to disable shields and/or weapons). Or light rounds (very light) to increase range at the expense of hitting power, but the increased range and lower time to target would mean ships could coordinate their fire much better and for a much longer time to take out Covenant ships or to take out shields so that other ships could use heavy rounds to get the kills. Taking out shields so that missiles and secondary, smaller MACs (don't remember their names) could destroy plasma torpedo launchers should have been prioritized instead of constantly trying to kill Covenant ships outright. Heck, fire missile swarms to hit just before the MACs so the shield flare interferes with their sensors to make it much harder for them too evade the MAC rounds. The books are _incredibly_ uncreative and thoughtless when it comes to naval combat in space between the UNSC and the Covenant.
You know it’s a good air/space craft when it does a money spread with its munitions
I know a lot of people aren't big fans of the C718's planform view, but my headcannon is that the C718 has shields and, therefore, does not need to be concerned about aerodynamics. It can have these massive, blocky engines and still fly in-atmosphere because its shield can take the form of an aerodynamic shape, despite it being a flying brick. Thus, the C718 can focus more on sheer thrust, thus increasing its effectiveness as an interceptor. I also like to think that they were able to cram a Slipspace drive in the C718, so that it doesn't have to be deployed from a ship in the middle of combat, but who knows?
747 sized wingspan on the big one. Love it
I've always thought the fighters in Legend of the galactic heroes were the coolest. The most realistic in scifi would be the Greenships in Xeelee Sequence, They have three starbreaker cannons that fire space time defects and while that sounds like fantasy that entire series is hard science and everything is theoretically possible.
Not bad, but I still consider the Starfury from Babylon 5 to be the most realistic starfighter design. Best thought out design for three dimensional maneuverability in space using conservation of momentum that I've yet seen.
I always thought since Reach, that they could probably make a fairly fun game where you and your squad are in a Longsword. Have there be bases to dock and walk around. Plus missions like launching the nuclear payload or defending ground troops. Maybe have some pretext like you are a mercenary group or something hired out by the UNSC for certain missions.
For those unfamiliar with weapon calibers IRL, fighter aircraft typically tote a 20mm autocannon which is basically just a really massive rifle round. 105mm is what the M1 Abrams tank fires. A 115mm autocannon is absolutely absurd in concept. You're talking about an automatic howitzer at that point.
Meanwhile C17 with a MEGACHONK tail
Never understood why these things are as massive as they are if they're meant to be fighters. They seem a lot more like bombers, if anything
Well when you're going after shit like banshees, phantoms, corvettes, sometimes in low/0 gravity,weight dosen't exactly matter
@@laikakills6309
Also, you need all the mass you can get when you’re facing down plasma weaponry…
@@laikakills6309 If anything, wouldn't having a smaller profile actually increase the chances of survival because of the possibility of plasma salvos missing the ship entirely? After all that is exactly what makes Banshees so deadly in air/space engagements. They might not have much shielding but they are extremely fast and maneuverable. Not to mention it's possible to add additional armor without completely changing the shape and size of a vehicle. Plus Longswords were in service long before first contact with the Covenant
I do like the idea of the UNSC making new designs to specifically combat the Covenant (especially after 27 years, Jesus. There's almost no innovation or improvements at all in that nearly 30 year time gap according to the lore, but that's a story for another day) but everything we observe and are told about their technology and designs tells us the complete opposite.
@@nagger8216 Well you also have to consider that by New Mombasa, even the new innovations were failing to successfully combat the covenant, despite the efforts of ONI and the UNSC. However, we do see some innovation, mainly in shielding tech, which in my own opinion extends the lifespan of many older technologies.
People tend to forget just how massive space is. Longswords have to contend with multiple tens, if not hundreds of thousands of km on the regular. That, plus the acceleration needed to cover those distances in any timely manner require an amount of thrust from engines which severely restricts how small you can make a such an engine and by proxy its spacecraft. Modern day fighters cover at most around two thousand km and have a top speed around mach 2. To make a trip of multiple hundreds of thousands of km in a similar amount of time requires dozens if not hundreds of times that speed, and to accelerate to that point in a timely manner requires gargantuan amounts of thrust. Point is, the operational requirements of a Longsword so massively dwarfs any modern fighter that you have to make a craft that big.
Fans are making what should've been in a 343 produced Halo show... It's sad, yet beautiful at the same time. Great film.
You should do more wide shots and less dynamic flybys. Just something about small, slow, lumbering capital ships blasting each other. Kurosawa called it immaculate realism. Use Havoks & Longswords for that. Cheers 👍
Admittedly, I haven't watched the video yet, but I'd like to point to the Starfury Aurora from babylon 5 for a far more realistic starfighter - simply because it maximizes newtonian flight capabilities. I mean, hell, NASA *literally* bought the design for future deployment in actual space irl
The clip of the Halo Reach mod reminded me of a modded Halo CR map I played way back in the day that had a longsword in it. One of the attacks was the nuke. The blast was so big that I was never able to get far enough away before it went off to survive lol.
The stuff I watch on the toilet while I get ready for work...
THe F4 phantom was originally not built with a cannon, later models however did have them... they found in vietnam that missiles don't always work.
They found that missiles don’t always work if you don’t maintain them and don’t do proper training with them. The navy NEVER put an air to air gun on the F4J Phantom and significantly outperformed their Air Force counterparts while using entirely missiles.
Yet a majority of air-to-air kills in Vietnam were done by missiles?
@@proofostrich9061 you are correct, contrary to popular culture missiles worked fine if the hardware was well maintained and the pilots were well trained. The navy had much better kill rations than the air force, the air force actually had to learn from the Vietnam war to establish their equivalent of the navies training programs because the navy did so well.
@@duitk Also to be noted, Missile technology in the vietnam war was still in its infancy, Missiles are MUCH more capable now than they were even 30 years ago.
Pretty much every aircraft the unsc has is based around the stealth fighter design. Only exception would be the Saber and broadsword but those are specially made shielded counter fighters for matching the seraph
For a space superiority fighter, I'll take the Starfury from Babylon 5.
I personally headcanon the c709 as the bomber, c712 as air superiority fighter and then the c718 as an enhanced post war fighter-bomber.
Fun fact pretty much all of halos designs were based off the gulf war, US future tech at the time etc. People saw the B2 and saw the longsword as an evolution of that, they saw the massive heavy but super fast and high powered Abrams and from a non tank engineers perspective saw the scorpion. Even the ships, at that time it was assumed that the US way of making things massive and heavy and high tech would extend to space craft. Expanding on stuff like the sulaco they considered massive heavy ships that almost looked like they were assembled in blocks with their metal cold welded together until they fit the shape.
GET ALGORITHMED BOI
The B-one was designed for high altitude, high speed bombing. Improvements in soviet (and therefore Russian) surface to air missiles forced it to the low altitude doctrine.
1. Star Wars is not science fiction, it is space fantasy.
2. @Cabezon, have you ever seen Space: Above and Beyond?
Not off the top of my head, I'll have to look it up
@@TheBigCabezon Someone recently AI upscaled it and posted the whole series on youtube. I'd argue that the Hammerhead from that is the most realistic in scifi, but it's been awhile since I've seen the series so I'm not sure if they focus on newtonian mechanics or not.
@@jansenart0 as a space fighter, the Starfury of Babylon 5 is probably the best of all TV media (despite how the setting overall is pretty soft sci-fi in itself).
In video games, the game In The Black (once known as Starfighters Inc. before production) takes the crown, as its fighters are based on hard science, and most importantly, they are lore-justified to exist due to the geopolitical situation that requires their existence so that corporations can fight each other without horrifying the population living across the Solar system as a fight between large, extremely destructive warships would be.
Most settings don't even bother justifying why space fighters even are a thing, because with no specific justification, they make absolutely no sense whatsoever (Babylon 5 is sadly in this situation, but the Starfury remained such a good design that NASA itself was interested in the design for a potential space "forklift" vehicle).
Realistic as an in-atmosphere fighter bomber? Sure. In space? Not at all. Still bugs me that we fly a spaceship like a plane in Reach.
the Longsword looks like stingray combined to a tadpole
The radar waves don't go around a b-2 so much as they bounce off at odd angles and fail to return to the search radar.
He did say laymens terms, so i give him a break on that respect.
However, a flying wing design itself does not significantly reduce RCS (radar cross section) and the Longsword does not possess any other characteristics to take advantage of the flying wing design for RCS reduction purposes. Thus I don't think it is exactly the best.
I gotta strongly disagree with your statement of most realistic star fighter in sci-fi. Having watched the entire video all your points make sense -- for in-atmosphere combat, but pretty much all the points fall apart for combat in space. Not to mention the manuverability of it shown in-game for space makes literally zero sense as it "flies" in space (same thing with the Saber, which is an even worse offender). Manuverability and handling of a spacecraft is very different from in-atmosphere and its shape would actively hinder its ability to maneuver in-space. If you want to see a sci fi design that's realistic in it's approach to what a fighter designed for space combat would look like, go check out the Starfurys from Babylon 5: multiple engines placed far apart from the center of mass to increase torque for faster turning. And in-universe that thing is known to not work in atmosphere because anything you do to make something good in-atmosphere is going to make it worse in space and vice-versa. Better to have separate tools.
So many good depictions of far more realistic space fighters. From the Starfury of Babylon 5 to the fighters of the mostly unknown game In The Black (originally known as Starfighters Inc.), there's fairly good choice there.
One can technically also make a carrier-dependent "battleship" (armoured, heavily armed, short-range warship, basically a fighter on steroids), which would fit the operational role of a Starfighter, but with actual firepower. After all, while planes operate in a 3D environment and ships in a 2D one on our planet, Space fighters operate in the same medium as their warship counterparts, meaning they are closer to an RHIB with a minigun than they are to actually parallel with an actual fighter plane.
Well its a huge fighter, almost as large as a 747 or A380. But i think that the stealth isn’t that important, as the means of detection in the air or in space are vastly superior than the measures taken to ensure a stealthy plane. New current tech like quantum radar means that you can’t really hide anymore.
@@5RndsFFE yes, you can only pretend to be another vessel or try to blend in if there’s a lot of traffic
The thing is it's virtually impossible to hide in space if you are within several million km of even today's infrared sensors. Unlike water or atmosphere, space has virtually nothing for the heat and radiation to bleed off into.
I think the size of the longsword is also grounded from a hard-scifi perspective as well. IRL space fighters are never going to exist at the size we might imagine them to be like in battlestar or like modern F15/F16s. The first reason is just the simple constraint of space travel and orbital dynamics means they're not gonna be that size after cramming all the systems that make it function in space in there. But the other reason is simply that you cannot physically, realistically get a vehicle the size of the F16 to transition between atmosphere and orbit and fulfill a role in both domains, even with modern hypersonic ramjets.
Look at the expanse if you want a good idea of what the smallest size of strike craft is likely to be in space in real-life.
The only application for a vehicle such as the longsword that performs both in atmosphere as a strike craft and in space is in an environment/setting with many colonized earth-like planets where putting the work into a multi-domain strike craft of this sort is worth the payoff.
I love the longsword
Also it's been said that the human weapons at times are so realistic that they have real world counter parts by accident
Like the Assult Rifle and FNF2000
Or Sniper rifle and NTW-20
As far as roles go and a bit of configuration, the 718 reminds me a bit of things like the Hs.129 or the B-25s we used as attackers/gunships. Especially with the big cannon/gun aspect, with the B-25/Navy PBJ having a 75mm anti-tank gun (a variant of the same model on the M3 Lee/M4 Sherman) in a forward fixed position. It could fire HE or anti-tank rounds and they went after ships, enemy aircraft, sometimes even tanks and pillboxes/entrenched positions with it. Hs.129 also had a bunch of larger guns like a 30mm MK 103 which was actually, at least in theory, capable of taking out most tank threats actually present during the war. They also had 37mm anti-armor guns and a rather impressive 75mm gun (just like on some B-25 models) that was a heavily modified PAK-40 anti-tank gun... that had an autoloader and was technically full-auto.
On the flipside you had B-25 models that had 12x .50 BMG M2 machine guns fixed on the nose/side of the nose of the aircraft. Which, when you do the math, is about *_14 pounds worth of .50 BMG projectiles every second._* Throwing a wall of lead that's equal to 14 pounds every single second for upwards of ~20 seconds... Is a bit difficult to comprehend to me. Other than where ever it's heading, I don't want to be anywhere near it.
THe italians had a medium bomber equipped with a 102 or 105mm cannon, i cant remember which one. Either way a stupidly large gun for an aircraft.
Bungie predicted the future of air fighters I will be waiting for that video
I’m surprised Halo hasn’t changed up the range for their fighters like ranging at 800 meters and having missiles be just as stealthy as the fighter itself and not needing to enter the country because they would use drones to get info and they wouldn’t need to aim it by moving its nose.
First video from you I watched. You got my like and subscribed. I look forward to your past catalog and future. Love the analysis man. I wonder if the B21 Raider will look like the Longsword
2:09. My god.... I've always hated how that explosion looks.
its gonna be a longer timeline than 10/20 years at least for the US on having every airframe be a low observable design. Alot of mission profiles are still very common and dont really benefit from the capabilities gained from going low observable with the cost that includes.
While I love the Longsword, I think the Hawks from Destiny like Alpha Umi have more potential to be real VTOL starcraft. Especially as dual use for civilian and military purposes, either as a troop transport/aerial support craft, but also as a cargo carrier. I might be biased since I love it to death, but I solely use it in Destiny because it looks the most realistic.
I know colonists like big numbers but if you use imperial use stone and imp ton
It gets funnier with the Kindjal bomber
It's basically a Longshore on steroids
7:29 missiles have a hard time maneuvering in space
always thought it was a shame that we only ever got to fly one ingame once.
There's some cool stuff here, but there are some things I want to add.
The longsword isn't stealth. There's a lot of right angles there that'll reflect radar, plus it's pretty big. That design makes me think of all those European delta wings, particularly the eurofighter - high speed and maneuverability (though you'll lose speed in maneuvers quickly). Being a spacecraft, maneuverability isn't much of an issue, but it'll do cool things in atmosphere.
As for the lack of a tail, you said it yourself - It's just not needed. That thing takes off and lands vertically, and it likely has a pretty advanced flight computer to keep it straight in flight. I'd guess it has some sort of thruster to push it in one direction or another to mimic a tail, kinda like a Harrier. (That's what I heard about harriers. Please don't kill me.)
Last, I'm not as smart as I think I am, so tell me if you think I'm wrong.
nah harrier still has a traditional tail. The engines rotate to allow for VTOL, but do not assist in maneuvers. What you're looking for is thrust vectoring, which directs the nozzle of the jet engine to assist in maneuvering the aircraft, which only top end fighter aircraft have (Think F-22 and SU-57)
@The Dutchinator Thanks. I knew the Harrier had a traditional tail, but I thought it had some extra method for turning in slow speed/vtol. Pointing each side's nozzles in slightly different directions to turn seems like a better idea, though.
The nostalgia on the og halo footage
I wish we had more focus on the military side of Halo in detail these days. Instead the IP is doing it's absolute best to destroy itself.
I miss the days of seeing a warthog with a new turret or a new aircraft and thinking "Oh shit what is this and how does it fit into the UNSC"
The Longsword needs guns for the same reason removing guns in the Vietnam War was utterly stupid and proved disastrous. If two Longswords are fighting, their superiors will not be pleased if they just leave because they both ran out of missiles. I'd imagine the massive cannons on the Longswords are meant mostly for destroying light ground targets in a much more cost-effective manner that missiles and bombs and for destroying CIWS on enemy ships in space. Since in space, ballistic weapons would basically be fire-and-forget. You could line up the correct angles and timing, fire, then leave well out of range of anti-air defenses.
The perfect shape for a space fighter would be cubed. with thrusters on each side
That B2 pilot was NOT following the flagger lmao. He turned left before the flagger even told him to.
at least the B1 pilot knew how to follow directions.
Great vid, I knew your sub count was gonna start shooting up quick
"Gunfighting in space looks cooler than shooting missiles"
*Me, looking at Macross*
Suuure it does...
Also, about Gunless fighters, well the concept have been tried back in the 50´s-60´s (The brittish Javelin i think for example), but well it was a generally hated design philosophy by pilots who felt that they simply lacked an option the enemy had, and basicly all figter jets have guns to this day.
Sure there are weapon delivery platforms like missile drones without them, but their purpose are very mission specific, ment to do one thing and one thing only, go to destination X, use ordinance Y and then return.
I mean, the longsword is so god damn blocky/thicc that I think it's usage in atmospheric conditions is questionable, so I don't think any future AIRcraft will look like the game, but more like the actual b-21, with...you know, aerodynamic curves.
These are huge.
Very intersting info about the real one too!
Big fighters can be very problematic, most of them will still be fuel i guess, to say it like that huge part of the ship cant be used as a weapon.
Having smaller ships packing firepower gives more flexibility, a short example you have 1 bomber interceptor expected to do two jobs or one at the time.
While having two smaller warbirds you can quip one for bombing tactics and one for fighting tactics.
The smaller size means you can pack more into a carrier, they are harder to detect etc.
And when it comes to it a guess you can generally take a bomber for long range intercepts that just drops highly advanced missiles and then turn around and flies back.
Damn, now I’m reminded at how crappy the animation of that covie carrier getting blown up was in halo 4
Yah that was pretty damn bad
*Laughs in Children of a Dead Earth’s drones.*
The strike eagle still has an air to air kill, with a bomb
Yah but it's a dirty mudhen
4:23 Are those Raptors I see on the ground there?
It moves like an F22 yet feels like a 747......wait wrong space fighter