Falsely Accused Former Postmasters: ‘Money Doesn’t Come with an Erase Button.’| Good Morning Britain
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Parmod Kalia and Janet Skinner were both wrongly convicted following false accusations of stealing thousands of pounds from their respective post offices. Despite having their convictions quashed in 2021 they are still waiting for compensation.
Former Postmaster Parmod Kalia was sentenced to six months in jail after being falsely accused of stealing £22,000.
Former sub-postmaster Janet Skinner served three months of a nine-month sentence in prison after being falsely accused of stealing almost £60,000 from the Post Office she ran.
Broadcast on 11/01/24
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#GMB #postoffice #fujitsu #horizon - Zábava
What these people have endured, their lives ruined ,loss their homes, salaries, faced bankruptcy and loss of pension rights.
How can 600,000 replace what these sub postmaster's have gone through.
For god sake , give them justice they deserve. A cash payout of at least 1 million as a starting point .
I only hope that the public continues supporting until everyone of the postmaster's can lead a life, instead of continually fighting the so called system. The post office should be held to account.
Good luck to everyone of you .
Its up the to the great British public to KEEP this in the news for however long it takes for everyone falsely accused to be exonerated and fully compensated.
Absolutely agree 💯
Yes, and to ensure that everyone culpable is held to account.
YES !! Who do you trust to do what needs to be done ??? What will cause the liars to become honest ?
That gentleman should actually received massive compensation for what he lost finacially, his shop health wise, falsely accused and all the money he had to put in. Id say they owe him at leas £1.5 million
In the US and possibly the EU, it would be massively different in compensation.
Yes, I definitely agree. As a minimum! 👍
What a lovely man, he didn’t go in all guns blazing about his health problems despite his increasing age. A gentleman. May these two people get the justice they deserve. Heartbreaking. They can never undo the damage they have done.
What I also find abhorrent is the amount of money the victims have been offered, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the yearly salaries for the bosses in charge of this fiasco. Truly mind-blowing that they are being offered pennies for the devastation they've endured.
It's a drop in the ocean compared to the salaries they would have earned if the had not lost their jobs and continued being postmasters until their retirement!
No amount of money will ever compensate for their inhumanity. The man I saw on ITV borrowed £ 22,000 from his elderly mum, he is now suffering from cancer, high blood pressure, type one diabetes, no job, no pension. Plus, plus. How could the whole country have been loosing money in the Post Office, not one branch or three branches, the whole country, and no one ever woke up, or ever sensed that they could be a fault in the whole system ? A country of highly educated citizens?. Then a civilised country takes 20 years to make a decision. It’s a big joke
Yes, it's an offensive insult.
Whilst those in power, give themselves millions per year, in bonuses! 😮
Adam Crozier was CEO of Royal Mail 2003 - 2010 which included the Post Office, oversaw the closure of 7000 PO branches. I think this whole debacle has played into the hands of people who wanted to privatise the PO. Adam Crozier should be hauled over the coals. He inherited the rollout of the Horizon project and was in place when the prosecutions started. Crozier wasn't named in the ITV drama because he became Head of ITV in 2010 and remained there for seven years, before joining BT. It's a revolving door of inept and criminal CEO's.
A Question mark over our judicial system looms large in my mind. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?????.
Ask Andrew Malkinson.
All the corrupt people who failed these sub postmasters need to go to prison, because they knew it was the systems fault, yet continued to carry on ruining people's lives.
This is organised crime and corruption in action 🧐
The prosecution bonuses drove them to be ruthless and to hide evidence. The managers who paid bonuses, as well as those that received them, and the people that hid evidence at the Post Office or Fujitsu should be charged with perverting the course of justice. Disgraceful.
Question is who is compensating whom?
Is Fujitsu paying these compensation or the UK govt, which basically means UK tax payers are once again forking out money for criminalities committed by the Govt.
I think the Fujitsu company should be the organisation to pay for the huge recompense payments that should go to the victims. They knew from the beginning what was happening and carried on with the sham against the victims. Absolutely disgusting behaviour
Agreed. The directors and shareholders of Fujitsu should also be made to put their hands in their pockets and contribute to the compensation. There needs to be an urgent investigation into their relationship with the Conservative Party, government staff and Post Office executives and investigators.
They should also have all government contracts ripped up
The whole thing is absolutely outrageous. Not only have the postmasters and their families suffered, and that's bad enough! but many communities have lost their post office for ever. I live in a village and our village postmistress, although not actually prosecuted, was made to leave. The Post Office and her shop were immediately closed by Post Office officials and she lost her home and her livelihood. The Post Office never opened again (no-one wanted to take it on), and it was eventually sold as a dwelling house. She kept a low profile and left our village. I don't know if she is one of the ones claiming compensation, probably not. If this were to be extrapolated across the country how many communities and villages have lost their Post Office for good and how many more Postmasters has it affected? This thing is huge.
75£ not enough. THIS IS A DISGRACE. ONE OF THE WORST BRITISH SCANDALS 😢
Conspiracy.
The media need to keep this scandal alive until these people have been compensated fully and a public appology given from the government on behalf of all politicians, from all parties, has been given. All persons involved must be NAMED and SHAMED. 🇬🇧✌
Ben asking "Why was nobody behind the scenes joining the dots?" completely missing the fact that fujitsu knew what was happening because it was their staff deliberately manipulating the machines, nefariously or through the need to update or bug fix, and that the post office knew and were more interested in protecting their reputation than the countless lives they ruined. Ben just doesnt grasp the vicious, malicious and deliberate nature of it all.
There are issues at every level. But the service contract between the post office and Fujitsu should be looked into. For such issues, there should be clauses with financial penalties in the contract. If the post office was aware, they should have activated clauses and received financial compensation. Perhaps they did? Is it something that is known?
I think it's your 'Government' which is the Shareholder of the Post Office who needs to be INTERROGATED.
Who at Fujitsu was doing this ( hacking and altering figures) and why? Who was benefiting?
Surely Fujitsu should be paying at least 50% of the compensation. And compensation should be reparation for all economic losses plus damages (loss of reputation, family, stress, time etc). A house or shop lost 15 years ago would have massively increased in value; those increased values need to be part of reparation. Probably several million each for many people.
Compared to the huge bonuses that senior Post Office gurus pay themselves, £600,000 to the victims of this scandal is derisory.
If the system catches you stealing £30, why would they think the post master would then carrying stealing more and more, knowing the system would catch them?
It's so blatantly obvious something was amiss yet they did nothing, just carried on convicting people and making even more money.
Well done to the writers and ITV team who produced this docu-series and God Bless each and everyone of you for doing such a great production. Frightening that this proves that innocent people can get sent to prison !!.
The astounding thing is, if bates vs the post office never came out it might have gone on for another decade. I'll never trust another politician as long as i live
What has come out of the woodwork with the Horizon scandal and what is going to come out during 2024 is going to teach those who have taken us all for mugs and those who think they can control us and run the world, there are greater forces at work which will pay them out for the harm they have done and the evil they stand for. What goes around comes around.
By the end of the year. So 12 months that’s how long it takes to pardon innocent people. I’d love to see how it would take if it was mp’s who was wrongly convicted.
What about the loss of pension money, also what about the loss of earnings for the partners of the ones who killed themselves, and what about putting in court all the ones who swept this under the carpet from day one, they need to be made answerable to a court of law.
I can think of only two ways that the Horizon system was signed off to go live. The ‘acceptance test suite’, which should have exposed the bugs, must have been inadequate or, if it was adequate, the person with sign-off authority chose to proceed knowingly. I suspect the latter because Fujitsu put in place a team to carry out clandestine manual reconciliation remotely.
Given the resulting impact, and the handling of it, there now needs to be a thorough IT audit of the development and acceptance procedures that were in place at the time, and those running the project need to be held to account for their actions.
Apparently there were, before it went live, internal memos at Fujitsu indicating that the accounting system was inadequate and should be rebuilt. So, at least, Fujitsu knew. Then, did the post office run any acceptance tests? Or only relied on the provider reports?
I understand that it should have also be deployed to another public entity which refused it. Are the reasons known?
And Stephen Bradshaw, a Post Office investigator currently giving evidence, at this minute, at the enquiry doesn't seem the brightest in the Post Office pack - a shockingly inept individual . .
He claims not to be a Mafia gangster, but that is what he effectively was and still is. He is still paid a bonus for each conviction?
That’s a ploy for the purpose of the inquiry, coming over as inept and clueless about anything. He’s a vile bully who clearly from his arrogant, aggressive manner and the transcripts of interviews he relished the power he had over others.
Pleading guilty without a fair trial is also a miscarriage of justice. This weapon should be stop using anymore. Being a law student I think this is a great oppression to ask an innocent person to plea guilty and get discounted sentence or punishment.
This was as bad as the Thalidomide disaster caused to children. It destroyed lives & the effects are on going. Fujitsu the IT company should ALSO be held financially responsible. Although Money cannot give these dead or living people their lives back. But we, the TAX payer of 🇬🇧UK are still buying their FAULTY programs🤬
No matter what, we must not allow such tech. companies into our electoral system. 🇬🇧✌
It has now become evident Fujitsu has been making substantial donations to the Conservatives and been given lucrative government contracts. Given what has happened in the case of the those affected by this scandal, political donations by commercial entities to political parties must now be thoroughly investigated and those making and receiving such donations prosecuted. Any howls of "That's how things are" must be ignored and where it is found that a commercial entity has made donations and the taxpayer has been left seriously out of pocket and/or scandals such as the Horizon System have evolved, all involved must be investigated and, if necessary, prosecuted. The days of brown envelopes and greasing palms must be end - now.
Yep double whammy as per usual
Those that sent those innocent people to prison with their false evidence, should themselves be jailed for perjury and perverting the course of justice, and that should be as simple as it is.
I Quite agree! Deplorable action on their part! 🇬🇧✌
I am a retired policeman and I agree with you 100%.
The judges that sent them to jail should be jailed, they are all thieves.
@@Sun-Tzu-- Judges have to go by what is placed before the court. If they knew the evidence was dodgy before the cases were placed before the court, at the pre-trial review stage, said nothing and waved it through, you might have a point.
@@Sun-Tzu--Not the judges,they had to judge on the evidence presented to them.The ones that need to be imprisoned are the Post office employees who amassed and presented the so called evidence
Doubt ANYONE will read this comment, but I really do hope some do and reply!
Does anyone KNOW for sure, how many contracts Fujitsu currently has with the UK government?
From everything I've had heard and read it's more than one or two, it could be as many as a DOZEN!!!!
So my question to anyone reading this - option A or B?
A) You trust Fujitsu and the UK government to run these systems correctly - BOTH parties reporting any and all faults - talking to the people 'on the ground' to ensure they are working as they should and taking swift and appropriate action if they are not.
B) You do NOT trust Fujitsu or the government with any of these systems UNTIL a full independent examination of EVERY system has been carried out to ensure that the same thing isn't happening again.
C) You realise neither Fujitsu or the government are capable of running a bath, let alone a computer network or a country, and force them to get their miserable arses out so those who can do the job properly and wisely can take their place.
As I have said in a reply, under Labour Fujitsu was supposed to build a microchip plant up North and a year later or so, it was closed with all job losses.
They were involved with Siemens and billions went missing.
This was around during 1990's/2000's when there was the Kobe earthquake in southern Japan and market's went crazy.
As I have said in a reply, under Labour Fujitsu was supposed to build a microchip plant up North and a year later or so, it was closed with all job losses.
They were involved with Siemens and billions went missing.
This was around during 1990's/2000's when there was the Kobe earthquake in southern Japan and market's went crazy.
Will this staggeringly terrible injustice perpetrated by the government run Post Office finally wake the British people up to the unholy evil that has ruled them, in truth, for hundreds of years ? I live in hope.
After the brave English sailors defeated the Spanish Armada and returned to port they weren’t allowed to leave their ships, the intention being to cause as many as possible to die on board so the ‘authorities' wouldn’t have to pay them. Nothing has changed.
Fate has a way of paying out such evil and wickedness.
What gets me is the Post Office knew that these people were innocent but they ran with it so they could get there bonus. Every System has a back door for maintenance so the Post Office lied about that to.
My personal feelings are that each responsible, including ministers, should face the law and, if found guilty, should be stripped of all assets and jail time, including bankruptcy, to help pay back any compensation to those sub post office workers.
This is disgraceful, but there are also people who have been waiting for over 30 yrs for payments for Windrush!
Where did the trail of monies go ?
Nowhere !
So, how can you convict if there is no evidence ?
Money would not have " disappeared " into the air. ie it wasn't missing to start with.
Don’t **ever** put blind faith into anything with “royal” or “British” in the title. Blind faith is bad enough in principle, but too many in organisations feel untouchable because they trade off the “prestige” (as if 🙄) of “British” or “royal” organisations.
So where did the money go that the victims paid from their own accounts?
Exactly! But if Fujitsu were able to manipulate the accounts to steal money from all those innocent postmasters & mistresses, surely they were clever enough to squirrel it all away where it could not be found? As another commenter said, the Japanese used to be an honourable people: in the past the head honchos would have fallen on their swords...
They need full restitution of all losses and monetary compensation for lost lifetime opportunity.
20yrs+ and they are using words like swiftly.
UK justice system
RIP
Just think every day living with. a conviction of a crime you did not do ?.compensation is not enough find the accusers judges and Investigation teams
800 bonuses for prosecuting innocents ????????😳😳😳😳😳
Those who granted and received the bonuses must be brought to book and made to answer awkward questions whether they like it or not.
The blatant corruption of the public service is staggering. Every public servant involved must be forced to make restitution.
It's a disgrace how theese people are beeing treated
Further issue will/may be when sub post masters have sacked members of their own staff for alleged short falls. Some of these sub post masters may find themselves now being sued. This issue runs deep very deep.
Can’t believe this ,the Govt should just pay up RIGHT now
I am glad these two are going through the legal channel the right way and suing the bad people directly. Plus listen to the way the interim payment, public interest case, and the £600,000 is minus any interim payment. My God this is insane. The lawyers need to come forward and walk through the cases and hopefully, others join them in this route. £600,000 take it or leave it is a joke..
75,000 is not enough. 😡😡😡
This is a reminder to everyone who is in employment, no matter what company you work for, you are just a number pay role to them. They will throw you under a bus to protect their reputation and name.
How on earth has this happened --- the man should be paid real compensation ie big money at least seven figures. Same for the woman, real compensation. Those that knew this was wrong and yet let it continue, should be give prison terms.
Does anyone suspect that the “errors” were actually programmed into the computer system by “someone” who profited in some overseas accounts? Plus, many of these victims were forced to pay back these monies. Where did their money go?
There is every likelihood that the monies taken from subpostmaster went into a post office suspense then into PO profit and loss account.
@@oldneo4309 It did. The PO stole money from the sub postmasters and added it to their profits.
A Govt department PAY up NOW . Behaviour soooo disgusting. 🤬🤬🤬😤
Fujitsu were awarded a £2.4 BN in November 2023
Why don’t they take out private prosecutions against the Thieving Post Office!!!!
Far too expensive, they have had to give up everything to appease the PO
Alan Bates had indicated on good morning interview that if no public prosecutions arise that his 555 group is looking at taking private prosecutions.
They do not suppose to jail people for trusting the IT system at all.
It's absolutely appalling!
The people responsible must be Jailed .
It’s the usual story with the establishment order an enquiry state that there will be an enquiry , until the next fiasco its no one’s fault of course and no one is ever to blame
I am angered that the government announced a £600k payout for the postmasters - and yet this doesn’t seem to apply to Parmod due to him being a “public interest case”? And why haven’t the post office returned his money back to him? He also didn’t receive the £75k initial payout….so he has received no compensation at all!
What he has been through is unimaginable - no amount of money will make up for it. It is an outrage he has not been compensated at all.
Parmod is so moving, heartbreaking.
Remember all compensation is paid out with OUR hard earned taxes!
The Lawyers are as responsible as the federation. They were giving the wrong advise 😡
So what is the rate of prosecutions for managers of your local Tescos, Waitrose, McDonalds, BP filling stations etc? How could anyone but a lunatic imagine that SPMs were suddenly far more likely to have a hand in the till than anyone else working in retail? (2) these POs are a FRANCHISE - the SPM is liable for the takings and know they have to make good any shortfall - so why would they steal from themselves? (3) Why were the judges accepting disputed computer records as "evidence" when the "investigators" could never provide any proof that the SPMs were embezzling money - where were the new cars, big houses, luxury holidays, unexplained bank deposits, hidden cash etc etc? The fact that the judges were not querying this lack of evidence and directing the juries appropriately, makes me suspicious that the judges were being directed by their bosses to go after the SPMs.
I am naive to how the judicial service works in the UK, but I am surprised that a company can actually tell an accused to take a plea bargain for a lenient sentence, I know it happens in the US but was totally unaware the UK system tow a similar line. The innocent before proven guilty was clearly not the case for the majority of the SPM's.
Big untested Technology, making lives better and better, huh?
Inhuman systems
I’m surprised the CEO or the someone from Fujitsu hasn’t been interviewed. Their brand values are aspirational, empathy and trust. We haven’t heard their side but it seems like the company have broken their most important brand value… trust.
I agree with other people in the comments they should be supporting this.
They need to keep a list of absolutely everyone in a public place and tick off names when justice is sorted 1 that way it gives everyone a real idea of amount of people still outstanding and prevents anyone from ‘whitewashing’ over the actual statistics
British justice is highlighted here.
How is PO management able to sleep at night?
Its not just 'financial' either ...it should be massive compensation for Wrongful imprisonment!!!!!
Get lawyers with teeth to sue the Post Office. They should be getting millions. Cancel foreign aid to India to pay for it.
It was about protecting the computer system ,,, people were expendable ,,😢
Why was the software changed when it had been working for many years
Someone was stealing the money and I'd look at who had remote access but the postoffice covered this up so they also need properly investigated
Justice for these innocent victims now!
there should be a public apology for those people of the community who fell for the false narrative and destroyed these poor people.
This is just crazy.
one wonders if any postal vote rigging was going on!!!!!!!!!
The IT specialists who covered uo the known Horizon inadequacies need to be held accountable before the law. Are there any recorded phone conversations available? Most large companies record client phone conversations as a matter of course nowadays.
Get all INVOLVED. Needs to get to the TOP especially. Those who were giving the bonuses for convitictions are worse than the ones who got the bonus.
So the royal mail is still pulling the strings... Disgusting
This is awful!!!
And the dead? What do THEY get?
Horrendous does not cover their experience. Bonus to the people at the top for convictions, and the convictions escalated. Cleared sentence deemed illegal or whatever and still no route to payment of personal monies paid over or to get reparation for the unfair treatment, losing your business, mental & physical health issues caused by PO handling of this failed system or reputation damage. No amount of money will ever be able to erase what these people have and still endure. How dare the government announcement imply its all resolved when it clearly is not for all damaged by it. I hope some big wig presenters help to keep this on the public agenda until it’s resolved. If the justice system really worked, PO big wigs responsible for the flawed system should have claw back of bonuses & pensions and if they were involved in a cover up of evidence that showed the system to be flawed, they should face criminal charges too. Its heartbreaking to hear that some victims of this injustice are still having to fight for recognition and reparation payments.
Fujitsu should pay for all compensation! No more contracts till they do.
The compensation for normal hard working people is unbelievable but if you’re a celebrity or someone of stature you’re compensation would be in the £ millions for a trivial word said against them these people lost everything and even jailed and some went to an early grave because of these lying corrupt individuals hiding the truth them responsible should be jailed the law is only for the richest in society who can afford the big lawyers to fight there case
Angela van den bogerd knew these people were innocent
Wow! This a scoop! You are first to break the story!
The delays are totally unacceptable, companies and utilities have to be stripped of their right to legally prosecute people. The law should follow
The TFL example, if the payment isn’t paid within 30 days treble the payment, that would focus their attention. TFL should be investigated for
Their methods of extortion through harassment intimidation and corruption
To obtain payments. TFL is not fit for purpose, national referendum on
Whether it should be allowed to continue.
Gob smacking …& deducting & a take it or leave …you’re joking is that any type of justice ❓❓❓❓😤
NOT ENOUGH !
Shame on you
Were the 117 Crown post office branches affected by Horizon's faults and if so how was that managed?
Really horrible horrible and terrible news to listen to. Killing stories.
the priority is to quash the convictions asap, then those who covered things up need to be questioned and the truth to be told. Next thing at least give back any money that was paid by the victims. Then after that sort out the compensation and as much as I feel for these people there isn’t an unlimited amount of money to pay to these people so I think the compensation will be difficult to sort out.
It just like liebor and torys thay say by the end of the year .why not now
Terrible
And, of course, the police are the last to know.
Give the victims the boards salaries, as they will be in jail so wont need it.
The female interviewer, I can see she is outraged, as are we all, but she needs to let other people speak and stop cutting across people.
Not too shocking tbh
Those poor sub postmasters that committed suicide over this shambles