M1909 Benet Mercie - America's First LMG
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The first light machine gun adopted by the United States was the M1909 Benet-Mercie, made by the Hotchkiss company in France. The gun was adopted when the US military realized that machine gun doctrine reuqired different guns for the light and heavy roles, and the M1904 Maxim gun was only suitable for use in the heavy role. Less than 2,000 of the M1909 guns were acquired, virtually all of them being made under license by Springfield Arsenal and the Colt company. They were used as training guns by US forces mobilizing for World War One, but did not see combat in that war. Indeed, the only action of note the Benet-Mercie saw was in Pancho Villa's 1916 raid on the town of Columbus, New Mexico. Want to know more about the Columbus raid? Check out the InRangeTV video on that battle:
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"Day 243. Still at auction house. They believe I'm a historian. Will continue posting videos as long as my body holds on. Ian out."
"Day 489. i have been here soo long that im afraid to tell them that i don't work here, Ian out."
he is a historian you goof
@@SamuraiPie8111 the joke went way over your head
"Day 503. They are starting to get suspicious. Ian out."
Day 7,300: They held a party for me today and gave me a gold watch and a pension... Ian (retired) Out!
Looks like they started designing it and just never stopped.
Ohmygod word lol
Overengineered is a thing. Spellcheck even agrees. Happens when you pay engineers more money for more detail, do not set limits on complication, or have engineers who never touched an actual tool in their life so have no idea on designing something easy to make and maintain. That weapon looks like all three happened.
And they did it all with a pencil some paper and slide rules
It looks like a Star Wars Blaster and I love it
They built it the true way, the German way.
I love the early modern stage of weapon design when a bunch of people didn't understand that being insanely baroque wasn't a desirable trait in a military small arm
Back when war was seen as a pleasant and virtuous venture and doing your country proud. But seriously, this gun must have made front to back, they were probably like "ok so we have this cool barrel design, ok now we have to make the action awkwardly shaped, ok now stock has to be tiny and at really far down, please just design a mono pod and let us be done with this project!"
The ergonomics of this gun are such that I am reasonably confident that the organism which designed it had heard a brief verbal description of a human before, and was excited about the prospect of actually seeing one some day.
"There is a gap in their body where the armpit goes. Their necks move in all directions. Their hands can go forwards."
Presumably of the same planet as Nintendo controller designers
Nobody talks like that
I predict this comment might see an uptick in likes
My guy, you made it into ak guy's gun meme review.
The monopod is more complicated the a sten gun.
To be fair: A two-by-four is more complicated than a sten gun.
I've had shits that were more complicated than a sten gun
You ate there too?
everything is more complicated then a Sten gun
A two foot monopod... like a bipod?
The thing that terrifies me:
If this is what won
HOW BAD WERE THE REST OF THE DESIGNS
THAT...….is a very good point!
I refuse to believe there were competing designs.
@@RaptorJesus Hopefully there were not.
Well, when this was adopted, machine guns were fairly new, insanely heavy, and all were quirky in one way or another. So, to see this win over something like the potato digger MG, which the U.S did use at the time, isn't too out of the question. Also, a man who shares the name of a popular whistle tater on primer, Mr Crozier. That man said screw the Lewis gun, no man can see in the dark, and our guns will be fine. (GREATLY paraphrased, but yea, blame him)
possibly one was a steam machine that shot bullets by heating them
This gun was kept as the LMG of choice by the US for so long because the head of the Ordinance Department and the inventor of the far superior Lewis Gun were at odds for years.
Then why didn't they just get a Madsen?
Gihren Zabi I think Ian mentions that in his Madsen LMG video.
Phthalo Phoenix What the heck is up with US military ordinance departments? They’ve killed a substantial number of our troops themselves, just thru neglect of the leadership.
@@clayz1 politics over brains.
@@clayz1 politics and tradition, stupid stuff
John Browning must have been rolling with laughter after seeing what a ridiculously complicated design that was.
What's complicated is all the s**t added to the gun. It's otherwise just a Hotchkiss machinegun. I suppose the U.S. penchant for "modifying" a "foreign" weapon for U.S. use rather than just adopting it goes back a long way.
That gun has more relations to an artillery piece than a machine gun.
this machine gun whe see here as a vehicle mountwho make it so massive, but the naked version, known as "Hotchkiss portable" was much lighter, a bit lighter as a Lewis machine gun...
Artiljerija 🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦
At the time, machine gun doctrine was relatively the same as close range artillery, because machine guns were a relatively new advancement in military tech.
@@nickm9123 Shit like the BAR and Madsen were wakeup calls.
Interesting fact. The electrical outlet doubling as a front sight (0:26) revolutionized American warfare. By allowing the troops to charge their phones while simultaneously laying withering suppressive fire down upon the enemy, the U.S. military increased each soldiers productivity and efficiency by 43%.
Amaz0n24 unsure when to change the barrel? There’s an app for that!
I had no idea that US troops had cellular phones in WW1.
Yeah that's what the army would have you believe. We all know productivity and accuracy actually went down 100% due to soldiers sexting their girlfriends on duty.
I thought i was the only one that saw the outlet as a part of the gun.
no can do; did you also notice the outlets are mounted up-side-down!
That sweet old lady still looks as pristine as it did over a century ago. And I really dig the feeding system, it's so whacky that it's simply completely off the coolness scale.
For a gun that seems very confused about just what kind of tactical role it was supposed to fulfill in an infantry unit and has so many features, I am genuinely surprised that it doesn't have a bayonet lug as well....
No bayonet lug, but you could definitely poke holes in somebody with the bipod.
The Bipod folds forward to double as a bayonet
Just draw your sidearm while they stare in confusion at the automatic rifle harp cheesegrater thingy you're carrying
If the british adopted it, it would have one
good lord i didnt realize doctor seuss designed a machine gun
The bitter butter battle just got serious!
I will not shoot this ham, Sam I am.
Nah, just some Frenchmen. Close enough.
He preferred to call it a "berdunzernubulous" but hey, "machine gun" just rolls of the tongue better.
Thing One and Thing Two approve of this LMG.
I actually wonder how this didn't get into Star Wars.
I don´t think they know that it existed or if they did they couldn´t aford one when they did the first three.
Unlikely to source them in the UK.
Some of the guns used by the Storm Troopers in the first Star Wars were replica MG34 so why not have these as well. Having said that they look more steampunk then Star Wars. Or that hunter Van Pelt in the original Jumanji.
Valentin Guéranger the lewis gun did tho
Because as mentioned, they were scarce in their own lifetime, and much more so afterwards. Lucas didn't use WW2 guns for their looks, they were cheap and common
This thing looks like its about one piston away from full steampunk
True
It's already looking like a scaled up version of a steampunk assault rifle as it is so...
@@jacktheaviator4938 1909 is still in the steam era. Gasoline engines were pretty rare for powering a shop.
The amount of machining hours that went into that gun would have been insane. That knurling looks like it was cut rather than being done by a knurling tool. Just wow.
You're not gonna disassemble it?
Wait, *can* you even disassemble that?
He disassembled an AN-94.
That pretty much qualifies you to assemble swiss watches.
I'd say the Zip22 was worse.
I believe that in order to do that (along with shooting the gun) he has to get the consigner’s permission, and for whatever reason that permission that permission was denied. (Though I am surprised that he didn’t mention how the scope still had the eyepiece, since in the video dedicated to that, he said that examples with intact eyepieces were quite rare).
@@jackandersen1262 He very well may not have been able to get it apart without taking some otherwise unnecessary risks to, say, get a fastener lose or something.
The consignor may have not have permitted disassembly of the gun. Whenever Ian looks at a gun at an auction house, they have to ask the owner if it's okay first. Some of them don't want their guns disassembled or fired.
the things machinists got away with before the invention of middle meddling management
Amen!
We should insist all AR15 barrels have similar checkering. :)
We call it industrial engineering.
A machining masterpiece. Before the days of carbide and CNCs. All done turning handles by hand.
And they didn't have some of the advanced manufacturing techniques we have today
Guy has trouble selling his guns in America. Sets up shop in France to conduct business there.
Boy... Times sure have changed.
Thauã Aguirre how can he call it American when its French.
@@aytonbob the gun was designed by an American and then later adopted and used and manufactured in the US.
The gun is french designed by two french
@@thelosthero368 that totally false two french man made this gun it's litteraly built in hotchkis factory
@@thelosthero368 the company was founded by an American. Benet and Mercie are the two guys that ThePny is referring to
That knurling on the barrel. Oh baby. As someone who knows a little about machining: oh my does this look lovely and time consuming. Awesome!
Yeah , knurling is not at top of list of fun operations and that barrel is excruciatingly produced .
I know, work of art huh?
They had a cost plus contract mebbe?
I'm guessing it's a light gun in comparison to a vickers or maxim but still looks a hefty beast
Yeah, "light" is more of a reference to it's intended role rather than it's weight^^
When it comes to weight and most pre-1910 machine guns, everything is relative.
Light and heavy machine gun means a different thing when refering to modern firearms or firearms back then
Yeah I imagine maxim guns were heavy fuckers because of the watercooling. Even the mg08/15, which has modified grips for mobile use, would probably be insanely hard to handle
It is meant to be art. Using it as a weapon of war was secondary.
The Art of War, perhaps?
Freaking French, man......
Stupid modern artists. At least this one can be used for something.
Man this gun is an absolute UNIT am starstruck by this lad
What an incredible gun. Not only is the stock upside-down, but it even turns the power outlets in the room upside down. It flips the orientation of other items in its presence. Outstanding.
This gun had some very innovative features for it`s time like quick change barrel and ability to use optics. The Browning BAR that replaced that gun didn`t have none of these features.
1918 BAR was basicly an early battle rifle intended to be used by a single soldier, it didn't even have a bipod. Hochkins is still a crew served machinegun.
But it was still a much more mobile, reliable LMG
The Browning Browning Automatic Rifle
I would choose the BAR a million times over this thing.
Double negative so it did?
You have to wonder how Colt made any money on such low production numbers given the amount of tooling and jigging required to machine these.
Government contracts that let you bill for the tooling and setup costs, that's how. :)
FW - was just going to say that. Imagine how much you'd learn having to figure this mess out!
More than made up for it with the 1911 I’d guess. That was the service gun for like , what 70 years?
It's interesting how the charging handle/selector mimicks the operation of a bolt action rifle. Maybe to make it easier to learn the operation of the gun?
That, or they ran outta places to put stuff.
Pretty common of the era to incorporate bolt action similar features. And you are correct it was a training commonality issue.
Part 2? Seems like so much more to talk about , internals, etc
I got real nervous when you stepped away from the bipod end to mess with the monopod. In my experience with floppy bipods, they always collapse the second you step away from them.
The healing touch of gun Jesus makes even the shittiest bipod functional
that's right mike
I love that thumbnail!
Very cool
Ugh, that barrel makes me feel.....things. Knurled for my pleasure.
Forrest Devine Notice how it gets extra pointy every 4 or 5 rows... oh God it's so Victorian... 🍆🌊
Anything's a dildo if you're brave enough.
TheGoldenCaulk p-talks loves you 😍
Especially Forgotten Weapons and RLM videos.
Assault rifle weapon in Hawken mech game has the same checkering. I was always wondering who the hell decided that using a barbell bar for barrel is a good idea. Now I see it had a real life prototype o_0
The thumbs down are from Pancho Villa and his men
Wow, we actually used to have troops on the border. What a crazy idea.
"Wow, we actually used to have troops on the border. What a crazy idea."
Maybe 'cause the U.S.B.P. didn't exist until 1924?
Didn't have welfare either
That bears on this situation how, exactly?
Brasstard 7.62 - i’m always amazed by people like that who are watching this institutional channel,, an epic journey i would call it,, but not-like-it...
A perfect light machine gun for the Elbonian army if it had been formed in 1919. Must have been hellishly expensive and time consuming to make, and virtually certainly would be a nightmare to field strip. With that quadropod it must be a *heavy* light machine gun, and awkward to deploy.
Is it just me, or did Ian never expalin how it works?
No, he didn't. But this thing looks so complicated that only the waaagh might get it to work
I suspect whoever has it up for sale didn’t allow it to be disassembled. That or Ian didn’t want to bother.
I totally forgot about that . . . the design created such a pleasant fog of crazy in me mind . . .
It is a Hotchkiss under a different name, so it should work just like a Hotchkiss. :)
You mean Waluigi could get it to work?
That looks... awkward
I’m still struggling to understand why the bipod is as spindly and useless looking, as the monopod looks over built. Also that barrel knurling 😍
P-Talks that’s insane, but also why I love FW and these early guns 👍
The whole thing is just so unnecessarily over engineered, but in the most pointless spots. The monopod, the barrel cuts, that flip up sight, that charging handle/fire selector abomination..... I love it
Joel Atwater completely agree with you... and yet the bipod looks like it wouldn’t even stand up to airsoft. Weird, but fascinating!
Yes, that barrel checkering is insanely complicated: basically like a righ-hand multi-start thread cut and then a left-hand multi-start thread cut back over the top to get those diamond shaped checkers.
"Really sophisticated, or at least really complicated'
CZcams quote classic right there
Does it print a receipt? . . . With the feed strip there, it somehow has the look of Wallace & Grommit's take on a Madsen : )
When something is worse than the A2 BAR bipod, you know it’s bad...
2/10, not enough wing nuts
That is the most incredibly steampunk setup I can remember on a real production rifle. Absolutely amazing.
Thank you for bringing us this fantastic gun.
The amount of machining time on that thing is crazy
I remember reading that one enquiry into failures with these guns was that the fed strip could be fed in upside down as easily as the right way up, particularly in the dark and going by feel alone. If the feed strip was upside down obviously the gun jammed and the feed strip apparently got damaged enough that it could not be immediately reused.
What a ridiculou$/beautiful exce$$ive bunch of machining ! I don’t believe that is knurling, but actually cut checkering on the barrel, and quite perfectly done. The clue is at each end of the pattern, and also the perfect point on each and every diamond.
I thought the same thing the hours put in the barrel alone must be half a work week with the checkering and the ribs
Yup, being a trained machinist I knew there's no way that's regular knurling. Christ, this is pure madness. A gold plated 1921 would seem like a budget option compared to this thing...
But god it was worth it, this thing is a beauty
It looks almost painful- like holding it between a pair of coarse bastard files!
Machinist at Colt ' mine is much prettier, plus the over time paid well'
I'm a machinist and that must have been a very expensive gun $$$$ to make
How have I never ever heard of this gun? It is quite an impressive piece from a machining standpoint.
With how deep and rough the knurling is it looks like they actually cut a quadruple or quintuple start thread, and that both left and right handed. The machining on these things is just gorgeous.
I'm with you on left and right-handed threads probably with a tool close to 45 degrees. It would add surface area for cooling, increase the grip for changing the barrel, and not take very long to do. It look,s to well-spaced and deep for knurling
Machinist porn right here. Holy carp this is an amazing piece.
Holy carp? I have never seen one of those. They must be rare.
I first read that as "masochist porn" which would also be true
Always love the history surrounding the guns. Keep up the good work Ian!
Someone at Colt said "Let's make the barrel double as a cheese grater, because combat and well-flavored food go hand-in-hand." Someone at Colt should have put their foot down and said NO, very loud and angrily.
They use the barrels to rough-shape the stock. :P
I think it may have been used to grip ledges due to the limitations of the bipod idk though
That is a beautiful firearm! I love all the intense machining and the complexity of the iron sights makes me want to spend time learning this
Wow what!? Benet-Mercie telescopic!!
Stfu
lol
Ben Parsons you can’t hear me
Ben Parsons You stfu
The shoulder thing that goes up
I didn’t recognize it at first, but the second I saw that metal truss skeleton “belt” thingy I remembered the very first weapon handed to me in Battlefield One.
That's about as steampunk as anything ive ever seen lmao
Holy Cow, Gun Jesus with a steampunk weapon!!!!
Achkchyually, this gun was invented when people started to use gasoline engine.
@@darnit1944 Steampunk generally refers from the Victorian age to WWI, especially early machine guns and other overcomplicated weaponry from that time.
My first thought! My second was that power plug...
Seriously, this thing looks like it belongs in Dishonored.
you got there before me Antonio !
Ian, I was kinda hoping that you’d be able to show a little more about the functioning as this firearm has a more than at least a superficial passing resemblance to the Japanese Type 11 machine gun. Understanding that the Japanese were and are excellent engineers, but early in the century, their ideas were perhaps not always in concert with, shall we sat the prevalent European conventions, it might be interesting to find out if considering the Japanese appreciation for Hotchiss pattern machine guns, they followed that pattern rather than the Maxim?
Ian has a video about Hotchkiss Portative. It's one of the early videos on the channel.
You could chase of plenty of pedofiles with this gun !!
Please use a simple dot instead of a komma!
The short answer is that they had originally bought Hotchkiss and reversed the designs.
potito Potato *comma*
Is it legal to conceal carry one of those in the US?
Only if you're a robot and it looks like one of your legs.
If you have the money to buy it, anything is possible. There are 250 private tank owners in the us. Wouldn't you like to conceal carry a machine gun while driving down the road in a FUCKING TANK! GENIUS!
blus4 it has that things that flips up so its a assault weapon. I mean any politician know this right?
blus4
That would require a huge gut. But there is no shortage of those around here.
Yeah, only States with constitutional carry
I’m a precision machinist and I can say this was a 10/10 enjoyable episode. Very beautiful and complicated weapon
I'm just speculating, but I'm guessing that is slightly beyond my budget
This is easily in my top 5 lmgs along with the Bren, the fg 42, dp 28, and the Charlton automatic rifle.
Coolest video in a while. I love it when FW shows me something I’ve never seen.
This is such a gorgeous weapon, loving the craftsmanship and finish.
A machine gun manufactured by the machinist's union, no doubt. Imagine all of the machine operations this gun requires. And remember, there were no CNC machines back then.
I was joking. There are so many hours of machining in that gun that they would have to charge overtime.
@@3eightiesopinion524 yes, they've existed since the 1800's.
The machining is insane. Tooling like that will never exist in modern times.
It could. We just wouldn't do it. Its extremely convaluted lile holy fuck. Why would someone think making this thing was a good idea?
Not because they cant, but because they wont.
@@rexerator because it looks cool and knurling feels nice
Been waiting literally years for a review on one of these. Thanks Ian, got there in the end. *hugs*
Ian you are awesome. Dont stop doing what you're doing
"Light" Machinegun
Compared to others of it's time. Yes.
It didn't take three people to carry this.
“Light” as in you don’t need a wagon or three guys to cart it around
Ian at 7:30 - Explains the positions as Safe, Full, Semi, charging.
Ian at 8:10 - Safe, semi, full
minor oops
Wait so 8:10 is the actual correct selector switch?
That engineering on the monopod and the way it folds away is a thing of beauty
That thing is more steampunk than any of the steampunk mods I’ve seen. Hopelessly complicated for complication’s sake.
I love it.
Never thought I'd ever hear the phrase "two-footed monopod".
That charging handle reminds me of the one on the MP35, having to turn it upward like a bolt-action rifle in order to charge the round. Perhaps Monsieur Benét and Herr Bergmann exchanged notes at some point.
It is more of a monopole bipod. The "pod" refers to "foot" or "feet".
God bless your job. Ian the man
Very stem punk looking. Pretty cool and love the work put into building this beast
This is why i subscribe to your channel. All the good stuff eventually pass through here :)
Looks like something that came out of a steampunk festival...
Holy shit that knurled barrel is beautiful.
Very interesting video as always!
11:05 that knurling is beautiful. It takes a really rigid machine to do knurling that deep as well. Pretty good for it’s time 👌🏼
A Clown creates a gun : LMG edition
That thing is a dieselpunk nightmare.
I absolutely love it.
Nice to see that they actually installed their wall plugs correctly, good on you Morphy
Great video! Thanks!
Can you really still call it a monopod if it has two feet? Or is it just a really short bipod on a mounting post?
The world will never know.
Would you call a one legged man with 2 feet a one legged man?
@@ekscalybur no, but would you call a man with a 3 foot long waist and 2 stubby legs one legged?
Why would anyone call a 2 legged man a 1 legged man? Your premise refutes itself.
My point is why are you asking why a 1 legged thing is called a 1 legged thing when it has 2 things that aren't legs. Given that 2 things that aren't legs don't matter to how many legs it has.
Let's call it a ⏊-pod!
It's a bipedal monoleg...
Mud test when
Then he would have to disassemble and clean it.
Love these videos. Keep it up.
The fact that Ian does this solo AND with so few cuts is beyond impressive.
Would be cool to see you and Hickok45 have a chat.
this has dieselpunk stamped all over it, its like something out of Wolfenstein
It *is* out of BF1
I just realised - that height adjustment screw for the rear 'pod is actually a compound screw. The part the handle is attached to is tubular, with left-hand threads on the outside and right-hand threads on the inside. Way cool!
Great video - what a gun! Who'd have thought gun history could be so amusing!
Whatttttt no teardown???? Im so disappointed i need to go field strip something....
Are all the electrical sockets in the morphy auction house installed upside down?
That's actually the new accepted way to install electrical outlets. The theory behind it is little Tommy will hit the grounding plug first rather then the hot/neutral side if he drops a knife down there so as to not arc it out.
It's the way they're installed in hospitals- it's safer if something metallic is dropped on the plug while it's partially unplugged (esp in high-oxy environments).
@@ACZxGalm2 wow didn't know that, makes sense though
Traditionally electricians mounted "hot" outlets right side up and switched outlets upside down. That way you'd know at a glance if an outlet was always supplying electricity, and thus useful for a clock or a TV, or if it was switch controlled, and thus more useful for a lamp.
Ever since I saw this gun in the Washington DC History museum, I've been in love with it. Thanks for the video.
Mind-boggling complexity...Ian, this had to be one of your most fun (or interesting, at least) guns to review! Oh, to see a shooting video...
Wasn't this in Battlefield 1?
Yeah, its now nerfed down to the power of a pellet gun.
Really? That's a shame.
@@tylerchaney1533 it is actually pretty good
@@tylerchaney1533 in the campaign mode it's still the same, i think.
It was, yeah. One of my favourite guns to use, despite the fact that -- like all LMGs in that game other than the BAR -- it had lower damage at all ranges than any of the SMGs.
7:44 "Automatic"
8:11 "Semi"
???
Yeah I noticed that. Which one is it?
Guess I have to buy one to find out.... Got a couple hundred thousand lying around?
'Automatic' meant auto-loading.
Why hello there. Fancy meeting you here.
@@joaogomes9405 Guh'day.
Thank you , Ian .
In the late 1980s, I was in Chad on a training mission. Each of the team members were in charge of different aspects of the training of a battalion of the Chadian army. I was in charge of the machine gunnery training on PKMs. The troopers were tribesmen and spoke no know language, but a Saharan version of 7th century Arabic; we had translators, fortunately.
The men invariably called all machine guns “Zher Nuff” (phonetic) which our liaison officer said was their pronunciation of French for 09. This was because when the French came to Chad, they brought the “Bene Mercer Model 09” to conquer the natives. This evidently worked, for a time. In any event, from there on after, all machine guns were Zher Nuff, whether they be Hotchkiss, M-24, AAT or PKM. (Please excuse the spellings.)
mfw this could have squeezed into RDR...
The charging handle is also the selector switch!? Gtfo!!!
I actually like that idea.
A very cool LMG - I'd like it! Thanks Ian :)
Thanks for a fascinating look at a precursor to the Lewis machine gun. Your analysis is a good counterpoint to C&Rsenal's CZcams video on the Lewis and the historical competition with the Benet Mercie for adoption by the US Army.