Hotchkiss 1914: A French and American WWI Heavy MG
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2019
- The gun that became the Hotchkiss 1914 and served as the bulwark of French and American forces in World war One was actually first designed and patented by an Austrian officer; Adolph von Odkolek. He took his idea to the Hotchkiss company in Paris hoping to arrange for them to produce it under license. The design was inspected by Laurence Benet (chief engineer at Hotchkiss) and Henri Mercie (Benet's assistant), and they concluded that the gun was not suitable for production. However, the core concept in the patent - Odkolek's gas piston system - was a worthy one and would allow production of machine guns to compete with Maxim and Colt without violating their existing patents. So Benet arranged to simply buy the patent outright for a flat fee, and then Hotchkiss set about redesigning the gun to be much better.
The result was the model 1897, an air-cooled, strip-fed heavy machine gun that was sold to many different nations. It was improved in 1900, and between the two models sales were made to Japan, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, China, Spain, Ethiopia, Finland, Greece, Guatemala, Luxembough, Norway, Sweden, Turkey, Portugal, and Venezuela in a variety of calibers. The French government also purchased some Hotchkiss guns, primarily for colonial use. For the bulk of the metropolitan army, France opted to design its own gun in the state arsenals (which was the Modele 1907 St Etienne gun; which is suspiciously like a Hotchkiss with the operating direction of the parts reversed to avoid patent infringement).
When World War One broke out, and the need for vast quantities of machine gun became apparent, the Hotchkiss was finally adopted on a large scale by France. The commercial 1900 pattern was revised slightly (a better barrel locking system and replacement of the shoulder stock with a D-ring rear handle) and some 45,000 would be produced by 1918. The Hotchkiss would supplant the 1907 St Etienne over the course of the war, as it was a more reliable and less expensive design. It would go on to serve the French military through the end of World War Two, gaining a reputation as a gun of unparalleled simplicity and reliability.
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I like a firearm where you can use every internal component as a hand to hand weapon.
Right?? That firing pin is basically a bayonet 😂
@@davidfinfrock122 Yes, I can see the John Wick fight between a French soldier with his disassembled machine gun and a German soldier who jumps in to trench besides, only to get shanked in the neck with the firing pin. 😂
Ending them rightly with the pommel, updated for modern times?
@@Justanotherconsumernow I've not read that in a good while im going to go check skall out in a bit to see if he's uploaded anything I do enjoy his channel
@@Justanotherconsumer Hey, I got that reference.
The story of the Hotchkiss is basically “a Frenchman, an American, and an Austrian walk into a bar...”
And the bartender walks up and says, "What is this, some kind of joke?"
More like an Austrian walks into an American bar staffed by a Frenchman.
A german and an austro-hungarian, walk into a BAR
Odkolek was Czech guys...
I
Odkolek would have been classed as a Bohemian, what later became post 1918 Czechoslovakia
.so the joke would be An American, A Frenchman, and a Bohemian walk into a Bar, ( Run by an Austro Austro Hungarian, who immediately throws them outin the street; in revenge, the independance minded Bohemian says, I have a patent which you two can develop into something to set the Germanic world on its a...(1894) Baron Odkolek goes home to Prague in obscurity, and Benet and Mercier develop the patent beating Hotchkiss Design.
13:10 holy shit Ian is out here hammering on 100 year old ww1 machine guns. Not even a brass hammer, Ian is fearless.
Gun Jesus, not Gun Joe
why not, its not made of Glass, but solid steel....
@@rzerizrz because it's a rare collectors piece and he's risking putting a dent or marring it up
"So to disassemble this thing you need a hammer..."
My god...it's a Jeremy Clarkson machine gun!
It's the best machine gun
In the world!
Tonight, on Project Lightening:
I get brass in my face
Mae shoots a gun bigger than herself
and Othais rolls around.
Powerrrrrr!!!!!
@@vaclav_fejt I just want an episode of project lightening were it's Othais testing which machine gun is most effective to _R O L L_
..but it doesn't come with a V-8 burried in it - like the Spitting Image skit version of Jeremy Clarkson.
-It reads here "Do not disassemble". All right, now we can start disassembly.
**Starts hitting the gun with carpenter hammer**
doktormusmatta Jesus was a carpenter’s son, after all.
No no he was "persuading" it ^ _ ^
@Will Kelly Oh nO?? rEaLlY??
i.imgur.com/GXFWvfj.jpg
(Do yourself a favor and learn to recognize a joke)
@Will Kelly bud...this is like the third reply section. I gotta assume that you're going for your own joke at this point
@Will Kelly you've mentioned in at least three reply sections that Ian was referring to the gas block. We are aware. Everyone in this comment section is aware. The OP is making a joke.
"It says here do not disassemble. Okay lets get to disassembly."
IanThugLife.jpg
And with a hammer at that!
jordan I got a little nervous about the hammer.
Ringing Steel something tells me it might have been quite intentional haha
Stop -collaborate and listen- Hammer time!
NOT WITH A METAL HAMMER!
It amazes me how much skill it took to make these without cnc machines.
That, and scores of special purpose machine tools, jigs and fixtures. The aim was to eventually have a production line manned by unskilled workers, overseen by a smaller number of skilled inspectors and fitters.
True, certainly the ability and time spent in machining is needed by those doing finalized machining than say rougher production process parts production to a basic oversized requirement; should some parts have/need that material to assist in other production operatrions elsewhere on that parts 'production voyage' so to speak.
Finer machining just means more checks the closer you get in to the required range, and gentler/smaller increments of depth per pass; more time intensive than impossible with manual lathes and equally possible with 'cam-auto' milling machine lathes.
Cam-auto lathes are the mechanical pre-cnc era lathes for mass production of many simpler componants, such as bearing collars/flanges, un-stressed nuts, bolts & screws, tappet pistons/spigots and initial general simpler production of some larger parts from solid or tubular 'bar stock', before multuple operartions in many set up lathes & jigs.
Dude, guys in the phillipines are using old scrap metal found lord knows anywhere, to make spot on copies of popular firearms with crude forges, metal working, even hand filing using cheap micrometers and homemade guides. They make some badass 1911's. Only problem is, you could never trust some old shit scrap metal of unknown metallurgy to not explode in your hand..
@@dannythompson1948 We have a tendency to think that people back then didn't have the equipment or skills to do fine work. Meanwhile, they were making very fine timepieces. OK, a machine gun isn't a timepiece, but they still had to work to fine tolerances.
"Here we have this 100 year old piece of history. Lemme hit it with a hammer." Then again, unbreakable.
There's something very pleasing about brass details on a machine gun.
Morphys: This is a rare and expensive machine gun.
Ian: Let me get my hammer to disassemble it.
I flinched when he did that. Come on Ian!
Holy smokes!! Im glad there wasn't a cutting torch handy LOL.. Please just use the wooden handle on the hammer to beat on the next gun..
Or a copperhammer
It really shows how much respect Morphy's has for Ian to allow that and allow him to publish it!
o.0 Firing pin? I thought that was the bayonet!
FG-42 bayonet :D
It actually doubles as a javelin if the crew runs out of ammunition
Not many weapons have a firing pin that's as deadly as the ammunition it's firing!
@@ComradeBenedict And I'd presume the heavy receiver assembly pin to also double as an emergency pommel for ending one's enemies rightly.
@@MosoKaiser It would be faster to deploy than the original.
Open bolt. Gas operated. Air cooled. Except for the strip feed, all modern machine guns follow the lead of the Hotchkiss
@@903strikerunit link please!
@@dfwai7589 czcams.com/video/kG7P5P36Ug4/video.html
I'd say a modern metal belt has more in common with the feed strip than a cloth belt.
Thanks to everyone who dropped links
@@dfwai7589 is that a pun off of modern metal belts there? I see what you did!
Could you imagine a pre-1898 manufactured machine gun...... now that’s an NFA nut kicker
There are examples, but they are still regulated as machine guns.
15:50 "It is a gun that had a very well deserved reputation for being pretty much unbreakable."
CZcams's player crashed literally as soon as this was said.
I love old machine guns you can really see how they didn’t know what worked well yet and were experimenting with cool new ideas
It’s cool to look at the developments of the past with hindsight being able to see how close they were and what ideas they had
"Soldier, you have a choice of weapon, a 1918-made Hotchkiss 8mm machine gun, or an L86." "Hotchkiss, Sarge - it won't fall apart when I look at it!".
I'd say they knew exactly what worked well. Considering these were very reliable and used to great effect.
I would say their tactics hadn't evolved so weapons were often hindered because of the way they were expected to be used.
A proper LMG would've been fantastic in ww1, or even a more mobile hmg. But that wasn't exactly what they thought would be needed. Even though there were several attempts and even successful designs that were versatile, and mobile. See Lewis gun.
Cool looking gun.
Love all the brass work on it.
Looks like something out of a Jules Verne novel.
Ian doing the "you know i had to do it to em"
Seeing Ian hit a gun with a hammer like that. There is a first for everything.
Ian: "Pretty much unbreakable".
Marine: "Hold my beer".
😁
"Sacre bleu! We need heavy machine guns!"
*Makes machine guns that just weigh a lot*
"They have actually stamped on here 'Demontage Interdit' - do not disassemble."
Scene change
"All right, now we can start disassembly!"
yeah, don't push the red button! Sorry we can't help it!
-grabs hammer-
Do the POTATO DIGGER! Do the POTATO DIGGER!
Please, Ian.
Just Another Random Filipino Again?
WOW!! That's the most user friendly disassembly on any machine gun I've ever seen!! Amazing!!
Saw this in c&rsenal a few weeks
Thanks for reviewing it again Mr McCollum
Excellent content, very interesting, Ian is a very competent presenter, can't stop watching. Keep up the good work Ian.
I remember a short film where you can see 2 belgian soldiers firing one of those during the defence of Liège during WW1.
It was in the documentary "Apocalypse WW1"
Disassembly? It's hammer time!
That's a heavy machinegun for an 8mm. But heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. And if it doesn't work... no, don't beat them with it...leave it and run like Hell.
By the time they can get it turned around to use it on you, you're already back behind friendly lines!
At least you don't have a chance of blowing your bullocks off with this one.
@@quentintin1 I believe (although I may be mistaken due to lack of knowledge on the subject) you are referring to the Benet Mercie, which is basically a simpler, smaller version of the Hotchkiss.
@@quentintin1 damn that thing must have still weighed a ton. Would hate to be retreating while carrying the gun. Great find and comment BTW.
@@otroflores91 the french have won more battles than any other country in history.
Used to great effect in the Mexican Revolution, by all sides of the war.
Ian, this seems like a perfect addition to your collection.
These were used (in .303" calibre) by the Royal Navy in both world wars. MTB 74, the only MTB to take part in Operation Chariot in 1942, had four of these guns. She was basically a propulsion experiment, deemed to be expendable enough to take part in the raid on St Nazaire, and her primary weapons were two torpedoes with all the propulsion and stabilisation taken out and replaced by extra explosives and time fuses. (These worked as intended.) She was lost during the withdrawal phase of the operation, when she stopped to rescue survivors from one of the motor launches that were the main component of the raiding force. Up to which point, she had been traveling seawards at around 50 knots: too fast to either be hit by the enemy or score any hits with her own guns. I don't think that these guns were totally unsuitable for the purpose, but more normal MTBs would have had two pairs of .5" Vickers guns, with far more hitting power and yet which were not really very much bigger.
The Hotchkiss’s internals reminds me of the 50 cal Browning machine gun
These guns were extensively used in South America in the Chaco war by both belligerent countries, Bolivia and Paraguay. A guy I know owns a working specimen in 7.65 Mauser probably lent by Peru to the Bolivian Army.
There's something I can respect about a nigh unbreakable machine gun where most of the parts can either knock out or kill a person.
Wonder how many soldiers pissed in a Maxim's water tank.
TJ Suydam if you’ve ever pissed on a fire you know how bad that would smell, of course needs must
Given that soldiers in Vietnam were pissing on their M60s (explicitly air-cooled guns) in order to cool them down faster, I imagine quite a few soldiers with Maxims or Vickerses had that idea as well.
@@yetanother9127 Not to mention the 'field expedient cooling' for the mortars that was shown in 'We Were Soldiers'.
The Legionnaire's Manual was very explicit "Si dans le desert, faire pipi pour remplir le resevoir" LOL
@@practicalshooter6517 'If in a desert, piss in the water tank to refill it'.
5 minute commercial of wine and cheese followed by some guy talking about his lambourghini for another several
.... it's good i like you Ian
"Here it says 'De montage interdit'"
"Okay, now we can start disassembly"
J'aime votre style M. Mccollum
Your knowledge of French military arms shines through brilliantly, Ian, and your French pronunciation has improved aussi.
Look at all of that brass! What an incredibly heavy and robust design! I like that the tripod is an American design.
Sure glad I didn't have to help haul one of them around under fire . . .
That sure is a cleverly designed and well manfuactured HMG. Amazing stuff!
Seems like a good home defense gun.
Defense against marauding mobile homes attacking fixed positions?
Hotchkiss also made a 37mm autocannon version of this, the Canon automatique Hotchkiss modèle 1901. It fired the old Hotchkiss 37x94Rmm round in black powder and was marketed as an alternative to the 1 Pounder Quick-Fire Gun, Mk.1 as the Maxim-Pom Pom was known in British service.
The Canon automatique Hotchkiss modèle 1901 fired from 8 round strips at 200 rpm and weighed in at 435kg on its tripod, not bad.
However it only sold to the Mexican army who were in their modernise-at-all-costs phase.
Is it just me, it did Ian look a little badass when the video opened and he was standing there cross-armed beside a giant freaking MG?
He did
I think I can honestly say not a single channel on CZcams has more of my views than this one. Keep up the good work!
Listening to Gun Jesus talk about the Hotchkiss as I 3D model at the same time for my game. Fun
You are my favourite CZcamsd by far Ian. Your videos are of excellent quality and you speak eloquently. Keep up the great work, hope to see you doing other educational videos as you explanations of firearms are awesome. Can’t wait to see what the future holds for your future of educational videos.
13:14 MC Ian "Hammertime."
Ian MC-ollum
what a cool machine gun, i really like the looks of the french machine guns from this era, they look so steampunky
There is something that vaguely reminds me about the AK here. The slope of the top cover, the shape of the operating rod and bolt carrier. Weird.
In regard the air/water cooled debate. I'm pretty sure I read that a Vickers gun was run by the British army continually for seven days without a single stoppage. They only ended the test when the ran out of ammunition to feed the thing! Maybe its one of those gun myths though.
Ian himself mentioned that in a video on that gun (if I remember this right), they did that when they were phasing it out of service and didn't know what to do with the left over ammo :D (so a couple of guys were running the gun, switching out the people regularly but keeping the gun firing and shoveling away the spent cases :D )
No, it's true about the vickers and indeed reading accounts of the Gloucesters in Korea as a practical example, their guns were in constant operation for days, against the Chinese attacks on 'Gloucester' hill, where they were surrounded (hence the cap badges at the front and back as a battle honour). A great machine gun.
Matthew Dobbs The Gloucesters back badge was awarded to an ancestral regiment for the 1801 Battle of Alexandria, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucestershire_Regiment
@@edouardmaitre5903 yes indeed
Fun bit of trivia: This particular gun was cited by the team that created the look of the Death Star and imperial forces weapons as a primary inspiration along with Bofors AA cannons and others. The disk/fan heat sink design is a motif you will see over and over and over from the rebel shield generaror, to blaster rifles, and mounted blaster cannons/lasers
Big wrench- no, big hammer- yes.
been waiting for this one, thanks!
Just found this channel and subscribed. I love the historical perspective and the well done presentation!
If you ever get the chance please show a potato digger
gary pack Oh hell yeah.
He did a few years back
@@dfwai7589Are you sure? I cant find it
@@garypack1709 you know was certain that he had, but I can't find it. I can remember the thumbnail, and I'm pretty sure it was at Rock island. Maybe it's one of the older ones he's taken down to redo.
This why every French gun team had a claw hammer.
Nah, no hammers needed for the French, just a rock and some _élan_ :P
GAAA! Please trade that claw hammer for a brass or plastic hammer.
@@mikewysko2268 It's not a problem to "drift" hardened steel with hardened steel, there isn't any real striking force used. I think I would have possibly stuck a piece of card under the bolt though, given we ain't stripping in anger :)
While Ian was breaking it down I thought to myself man this reminds me of a M240. I wonder if/ how much influence it had on the designers at FN.
13:11 Wish I could use that method of persuasion on a few things. XD
It is also the best looking heavy machine gun of WWI.
The Japanese Type 3 Nambu is a similar upgrade in design,parallel to the M1914; discarded shoulder stock of the 1897 (Type30 Ho) and upgraded 1905 ( Type 38 Ho)
The Type 3 ( Taisho) gun had spade grips, a cam operated feedblock ( no spoked wheels) and a more complicated barrel fitting ( removal was an armouter's job) The barrel was also " corrugated" its full outside.
lenght.
I compare your M1914, with my Modelo1920 Cileno ( cal 7x57) exportversion of the Type 3;
Simpler to dismantle than the M1914,
And Japanese and Chilean crews were trained using Carboard sleeved 30 round strips ( Hotckiss Universal Strip), andcould hook up and maintain belt like fire rates.
The Hotchkiss co. Did develop an 8mm Flexible steel belt, initially for iui sein Aircraft ( 250 and 500) for the Portative, and then it was uh sed as well on the Ground 1914...esp. in AA use. Users of the Portative naturally used a Iniversal Flexible Strip belt (50's) in first tanks and Armoured cars ( .303 calibre).
BTW, the first export Hotchkiss was to Norway in 10.4 Jarmann Black Powder in 1897...these were soon replaced with 6,5x55 M94( "Swedish") ammo
The BP Hotchkisses were retained, with a Smokeless Jarman Load, for Fortress Guns.
The world wide history of the
Odkolek patent design is intriguing.
Several European Nations bpught them, France Standardised them,
Japan did parallel development, the Chinese copied the Japanese 1905 Type 38 Ho in both 6,5 Japanese and 7,9mm!
The NVA used captured French M1914 at Dien Bien Phu, both in AA and ground roles. The Syrians used them in the First and Second Arab Israeli Wars.
Doc AV
The shape of that pistol grip is... really something.
I find the thing pressed into use more interesting than true standard issue.
The Germans and the French both used night sights, great, I didn't know that another excellent fact!
That's impressive disassembly for a WWI HMG
"Démontage interdit." Processed to dismantle it with a hammer.
Disassembly is surprisingly easy for a gun of that era.
From the sounds made during disassembly and demonstration, you can certainly tell it's made from substantial chunks of steel.
Not like today's polymer component systems.
I think I'll add this to my wishlist
Thank you GunJesus, very cool
Ian , Thank you .
The firing pin reminds me of a flat counstruction pencil
There was still a lot of those machine guns in active use in 1940, they saw combat, pulled on the backs of men, on skis by the "alpine hunters" (mountain unit) or by horses. We were exceptionally brave, in spite of a dilapidated equipment...
soldiers ... how long does it take for a machine gun barrel to cool
10 mins? 3mins? 55mins?
no you fools! it's right there in the manual, the answer is ... "a somewhat certain time"
but never more !
The casting and machine work on that old gal is beautiful!
I dont understand why anyone would downvote these videos?
The VFW from my hometown had one of these or similar model on their wall last time I was there. Didnt know exactly what it was but thought it was cool as hell.
you dont disassemble the hotchkiss, the hotchkiss disassembles you!
Interestingly this shows why state owned manufacturing arsenals don't work well during peacetime. Cheaping out on the Hotchkiss MG because the French warministry thinks they could make it themselves and it turned out to be more complex and expensive. Because I totally understand the reasoning behind it, you have pretty impressive state run manufacturing capacity which needs something to do, also in peacetime.
Very instructive sir
what a master of persuasion you are
This and the maxim light MG videos have been excellent seeing the build up the browning 30 and 50 cals! This hotchkiss having basically the same but stock as the browning 50.cal never knew it was french either being on the British ww1 mk1 tank and the med A whippet
The tripod looks very different from the one in the prior video of the St Etienne. Was a little disappointed the differences weren't described. Other than that, a great vid (as usual) of a beautiful and amazingly long lived gun.
love this weapon, one of my favorites from ww1
I love how he just casually mentions that there's no water in Africa
Wasn't the St. Étienne M1907 more of an MMG than an HMG, same for the Hotchkiss M1914?
As well as the 24rd strips, there were also 30rd ones.
I know it’s an incredibly stupid idea, but the fact that this thing comes with a pistol grip makes me want to try shooting it from the hip. Maybe with some kind of steampunk Ned Kelly-style power armor to fit the aesthetic.
That is a nice video about a beautiful gun
This is the first channel that pops up when I look up gun jesus.
as it should :)
Thanks
WTH, using a steel hammer 🔨 instead of a hard plastic hammer!!! Kinda shocked Ian would do this 😳
What a beast of a gun man, gezus
The metal feed strip was not as much of a disadvantage as you'd think. Like Ian said, these could put a comparable amount of rounds downrange as a Maxim. The French wouldn't have designed and used 48.850 of them if that wasn't the case. One could even argue that the metal strips had an edge (be it ever so slight) on the fabric belts in the muddy wet conditions of WW1. That being said, the French did design articulated metal belts for these guns. Basically, they would cut the feed strip down to a 5 round section with an end hook just like the 24 round strip. The 5 round sections were then hooked together to form a 250-ish round "belt" of sorts. I believe they were primarily used by the French navy but they might have been used by the army as well. The weight of something like that couldn't have been very practical.
Most interesting thing is, that Odoleks brother had sucessful bakery that still exists here in Czech republic.
so hotchkiss was the inventor of the patent, a company bought the patent, heavily modified it, and then still called the gun hotchkiss? that seems very generous of them!
"Say hello to my little friend!" That would look cool in my hallway...
I remember the scene of the final battle of the film ''capitaine conan'' (great film by the way) where a french soldier rambo like gun down red army soldiers with a Hotchkiss. I doupt this is realistic but it's totaly bad ass
Buy it Ian!! You know you want to, so just go for it! It would make a great living room addition for you and then for "In Range" shooting to!! GO FOR IT IAN!! ☮🙃🐱
The 1907 St Etienne is literally a reverse-engineered Hotchkiss.
Looks strangely AK to me. Especially disassembly with the hammer
Why would you use a hammer to disassemble an ak? Theres a button on the back of the cover, just push the cover up and off while the buttons held in, and then just take the spring out and the bolt comes right out.
The internals look closer to an rpd than an ak. Maybe like an upside down ak bolt that's bigger than it should be?
Well I mean, many light machieneguns are pretty similar in internal operations. They all mostly have kinda the same parts give or take. Still closer to an rpd than an ak
Um ... no part of field stripping an AK requires a hammer lol!
@@3eightiesopinion524 naw u dont need hammer for that. the bolt carrier has a perfect slot in it to turn that. Thats one of the many neat features of the ak :-)
It sure is easy to recognize once you know it.
I love the sound of disassembly. ka-Chunk THUNK. So much different than the Ka-chink ting of smaller arms.
Don’t get me wrong about what I’m going to say, I love Mr. Ian channel and almost every video he makes, especially the more technical ones, relating to gun development and manufacturing. I respect, admire, and appreciate very much his technical knowledge and historical background knowledge about the subjects of his videos.
I didn’t liked to see Mr. Ian using a steel hammer to disassemble the gun, I’m not sure if the hammer has hit the receiver or not, I hope it did not, although it looks scored on that area, probably because of earlier "hammer disassembly" attempts ?
Simple protective measures should have been taken, even if it was only a folded sheet of paper resting on the receiver and another one against the part the hammer was “working” on.
Little pieces / blocks of wood, hard rubber, or some kind of plastic are good things to have at hand too, for someone who deals with large guns disassembly; and like someone mentioned before on these comments, a rubber/copper/plastic mallet is very cheap these days.
It's a weapon of war. It survived infantry operators it's whole career.
It's been through worse.