Paratroopers SUCK and THIS Is WHY!
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
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i wish you could have a paradrop order with multiple targets. You can make a naval invasion go and your 10 units land like 4 different spaces. For paratroopers, you either have 10 million Orders covering the map, as to simaltaneosly drop on multiple spaces, or on space whre multiple paratroopers land. What you don't have is an order, with multiple tragets, which in my opinion is the biggest reason it is so incredibly click intensive
你可以同時空降多個地點啊 (?
Could they mix the navel invasion mechanics with the area defence mechanics were the 'drop' will happen over an area and you can choose to prioritise VP's or Docks etc.
plus historically paratroopers are not all drooped in one location it was drop everywhere.
another feature I would like to see whit special forces is that they can become guerilla fighters (dispersing from the map to become part of the local resistance).
and then when the time is right reemerge.
@@user-wx1iv1fw3d nah he says he wishes "要是可以同時空降多個地點就好了" 这个意思
@@Zack_Wester maybe when their tile gets taken... they disappear but if the tile is retaken they reappear but are dmged depending on resistence done by the germans
IIRC, the correct way to exit the paratroop order menu ist to just click the button again, like with naval invasions
Usually I press Enter... if I remember right
Took me quite some time to figure this one out... Why even ask the question? There is a Trashcan button for a reason...
A little Bittersteel exploit: If you don’t put any planes up in an airzone, the ai won’t either. Meaning if you’re Germany/Italy and you put all your planes in a zone you don’t want to paradrop the ai will put all their planes in the same area to counter you, which allows you to drop paratroopers without having any true air superiority.
So if i understand correctly then, say im Germany and ive taken Netherlands,Belgium,Luxembourg and France. If i only put planes up in Northern France I would then be able to paradrop into the UK from say the Netherlands?
@@RAEJDER You’d need to find a way of gaining air superiority along the entire route.
don't air drop on uk. They have shit tons of aa and 9 out of 10 times you will lose all your paratroopers
As any country to easily get uk just dont use any plane and they wont use any until your already at london
Imagine being Oman and having Germany mail you a declaration of war. Everyone freaks out until they just see Germany do nothing but conduct paratrooper drills in their own territory while the whole German naval fleet just sleeps in the ports.
There is also the issue that air wings assigned to armies often "forget" their air mission after some time has passed. So I'm forced to move fighters and CAS myself to where my troops are fighting. It's an awful bug that no one seems to talk about.
This. The idea that I can't have 20 units and then click multiple tiles for my drop like a naval invasion.t selecting multiple missions and assigning units to each individual order is really jank
This only happens if the army they are assigned to moves into an area where there aren't enough airbases for the wings to operate. So, if you're invading the USSR and get into some of the places where there is just a single 200-plane airbase available, then only 2 wings will remain active. To fix this, all you need to do is build more air bases and then re-activate the missions and the wings will move right into position.
@@juvandy I came to comment exatly this but Im glad that someone else knows the same thing ❤
@@juvandy its still super annoying that when enough space becomes available they don't return to their missions. requiring you to set their mission over and over again
You need to click "Enter" instead of "Escape" to confirm the paradrop order.
Also allow us to modify transports so we have the ability to get higher range in the late game
Damn, I was so mad when I have realized I cannot para-drop from Iceland (which for some reason joined Axis) to Greenland (and then to Canada) and I had to spend few years doing nothing but building navy... ;v In real life transport planes usually have massive range
Yes, it's stupid. In theory, they should have a longer range than strategic bombers, because they don't have to carry heavy cargo like bombs.
that was mention by paradox when the aircraft designer came out.
designable transporting plane broke the ai.
@@Zack_Wester how so?
I mean the ai already pretty broken. France can't defend itself against early paradrop, Britain can't defend itself against early naval invasion. And it's worth noting that in order to be able to para/naval invasion, you need the entire path to be clear enough.
They're great for cheese strategy but God damn paratroopers+transport planes are buggy as all hell. I don't think PDX will ever completely fix that combo.
- 75% air superiority in all areas towards drop zone
- 50 planes per division
I actually did have a tooltip pop up one time, but it isn't consistent:(
-
50 planes per divisions, or per battalions ?
Transports need more range. 1000km was fine for a Ju-52, but Allied transports usually had 2600km of range. Extend transport ranges please, Paradox.
Yeah, totally agree. For example Bristol Bombay had like 3600 km of range. There should be aircraft designer for transports where I am balancing, cost, range and payload.
Regarding the supply missions, I believe there are events where reinforcements for divisions were brought (or tried anyway) by plane. I believe the Germans airlifted an entire army to defend North Africa against Torch, even though it didn't work out. Which is why I would suggest transport planes could actually transport entire divisions across friendly territory and also bring in reinforcements in men and materiel (not heavier equipment than a light tank though), all in order not to risk friendly ships, but to make use of air superiority and transport planes, because 80% of the ones you produce might end up in some depot, (like trucks before NSB and the supply update), having never even flown.
I totally agree with the tooltips rework! And I think we need more special forces capicity for a big paratroop invasion.
So true. The capacity cap is so arbitrary, unrealistic and stupidly low. It's not like in WW2 if you wanted to join the Marines they told you: "Nah sorry, you have to wait for 6 more guys to join the Army first."
Once you have defined the drop order, just click on the parachute symbol again to exit.
I like the idea of special forces being "tacked on" to a standing army with special orders integrated with the main army's battle plan. For instance, an invasion of Normandy, with the same general having two paratrooper divisions and four Marines in a sub-force that drops behind enemy lines and converges to the same objectives as the main army. Or, the Marines are tasked specifically securing the beaches and rivers while the main army sits on the front line as normal.
Would it cause the entire AI to collapse like a house of cards? Probably. Then again, it could be beneficial. Special forces could automatically occupy and fight in the kind of territory they are designed for in a preferential manner
Yeah there were a lot of battles with small amounts of special forces like paratroopers or US Rangers that you can’t really emulate with divisions of 10k soldiers
@@erichluepke855 every expansion and adding of content they do just nerfs the AI. While humans can learn new stuff like how to custom build a better navy, AI can't and thus all of the extra work around navy/tanks/planes/spies is a massive buff to player.
Imagine similar to moving infantry port to port with ships with transport planes to airbase to airbase. Moving a division will take way more planes as they have to land and the equipment lost as it was left behind.
They're not bad,they're a great way to get the 'no country for old men' achievement.
PDX should really make Paradrop into a mission in of itself, then allow Para-Transports to be assigned to your Para-Divs as well as your fighters.
It's terribly annoying having to figure out where you let them darn things whenever you want to paradrop a random isle.
You need to press "Enter" to confirm the individual paradrop order.
There are plenty of such errors in the game: e.g. the front lines (disintegration if the opponent is torn to pieces).
Unfortunately, we still only get visuals instead of strategy and tactics.
Or how a multi-army frontline sometimes re-assembles itself so that all of your divisions move all over the place.
@@juvandy Yeah i still don't get why that happens, there's no reason for the frontline roder to take a division from the other end of the frontline to fill in a gap.
@@purplefood1 I think you can modify this with the new cohesion tool to an extent, but I keep forgetting it is there.
In order for the paradrop order to execute, you need that transport planes have the range covering _all provinces_ of the air zone of your target, not only your target province. This means for example that Soviets can never drop paratroops even in the Baltics (Hiumaa is outside any such range).
For a long time, Hearts of Iron 4 has had a system in which a country has only one type of transport airplane, with no upgrades for airframe. All of the other airplane types have had such upgrades available for research, which in practice also grant longer range. As such, an airzone that is undroppable to paratroopers in 1936 stays that way for the whole game.
Also, there has only been one type of transport cargo ship hull available in Hearts of Iron 4. With transport ships, the chief problem is not range, which is infinite for transport ships, but is instead speed. More speed means more amount of time during the chasedown phase, which in turn allows a better chance of reaching port or of being rescued by a friendly navy. It would be nice to spend research on getting a faster cargo ship, but that research does not exist.
Extra capacity would also be nice in a newer version of a cargo ship hull or transport airframe. However, in Hearts of Iron 4, there is just one version of transport airplane and just one version of a convoy cargo ship. The speed and range and capacity of cargo ship and transport airplane are all set in stone.
"You can't Paradrop when your Transport planes are on a mission"
*puts Transport planes on a mission as an example
*tries Paradropping with the airport where the planes are on a mission
"Why can't I Paradrop?"
I know this isn't the point of the video but I just found it funny.
I'd like in a theoretical rework is for paras to have the transport capacity built in to the cost of the battalion. Just dispense with the transport planes, or make them able to do non combat transport. But the paratroopers should have the aircraft they need to combat drop be integrated. This also lets you upgrade the range, supplies, etc
I like this idea. Consolidating things like that would definitely make it less of a headache
Biggest problem with para is that you can not drop fuel to them via airdrop (it is also affecting tanks or planes in low supply regions - you can assign 1000 planes to supply them but there will be no drop of fuel delivered). So you can have on paper a really good paratroop division for early stages with armor support, drop it and then be paralyzed after some fighting in defense.
They aren’t getting a rework though?
Gotta love clickbait
@@drunkensailor5771 I'm just here for the Dave.
@@drunkensailor5771 Yeah this guy's whole game is clickbaiting. He even admits it in streams
the escape thing, you have to click enter, not escape.
The template exploit still works, you just have to do it the other way around. You first convert them to the template and then save the template in the division designer
I’m not sure I get it? Can you elaborate?
Huh?
@@johngalt5166 Open the same 2 windows that Dave did in the video with the game paused just click the buttons the other way around
To add onto your idea about the AI doing it for you, what if you send them to a general, he makes the plan, and then a little pop-up comes onto the screen, and it gives you his plan, and the objectives that the paratroopers have, and then ask you if it’s OK to go through with it
Do you never use paratroopers? Drop them on a few supply hubs and rr lines and launch the main attack, try it sometime.
When you hover your's paradrop order arrow - it gaves you a tooltip with explanation about transport planes
Para troopers are pretty handy in my opinion for when your in a situation that naval superiority can’t realistically be achieved but you need to get across to say the UK.
It’s very niche use cases and they definitely need to improve the controls and ui for it.
That being said I’m glad they are in the game and while they are not something I realistically use the times I have needed to use them were super clutch for some of the silly hoi4 achievements
Maybe they removed the peacetime paradrop so you couldn't get troops into Poland early as an Ally member? Seeing as Danzig is a DMZ until war's declared.
Isn't Gdynia also a port?
I made an achievement run for Brazil recently, trying to get the "Smoking Snakes" achievement (You need to paradrop in Rome as Brazil)
I cheesed it a bit by creating a shit load of horse 2-width divisions, then converting them to 50-width divisions, and that allowed me to have some 20 20-width Airborne divisions with support companies
And heck they were effective
I started my way in Africa. After securing it I dropped in Greece, where the advance ground to a halt
By that time I created 2 armies of basic 21-width infantry (9 inf - 1 art). One was left to hold the line, while I prepared a paradrop from Greece to Italy, and the 2nd was prepared to hold the line in Italy proper, once I paradrop
The first drop was successful, I secured Sicily and Southern Italy, and from there I paradropped to Rome (which, quite in line with Mussolini's military "competence", was left unsecured, much to my pleasure)
So, paratroopers are worth it, and can definitely be used to your advantage. I'm planning to do something of this kind in a run for the German Reich. Because of naval superiority rework, Sea Lion is no longer an option, so I'll try an Air Lion instead.
I think it could be cool if the paratroop order had an option to do it via garrison order or something similar, so automatically landing on e.g. ports, railways. Either that or like naval invasions being able to select multiple provinces.
When I first started playing HOI4 I was probably the most excited with the possibility of customizing my own fallschirmjager core. To my disappointment paratroops are kinda lukewarm, between expecting a bit more/user un-friendliness I was pretty let down.
The thing is, the more I play, the more I wish I can do less micro? I’m bad at it and I like my logistical gameplay, honestly. Battle planning is fun.
It should drop them over a small area instead of through one small province location. After they drop they regroup instead of appearing right away like when you send volunteers. It says they are incoming but you can’t see where until they regroup on the ground. Depending on how quickly they regroup they may be able to sabotage and do +50% damage to buildings and infrastructure but also have a +50% chance to get captured and wiped out before regrouping so risky play if you decide to use them aggressively or tell them to lay low until they fully regroup.
I parachuted into Soviet Occupied Poland after I had set them up but it was right after I finished the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. This was like 3 days ago. Paratroopers have been giving me headaches for the past week. I wasn't at war with anyone anymore when they parachuted.
This very helpful mr. Feedback thanks!
Press return not escape, its not a bug
I think casualties from air drops make sense because of how risky they were in those times. Doesn't have to be death but you can pretty easily break something
One thing i would like to add is the game doesn't seem to allow you to jump onto land you occupied. It would really make sense to use large paratroopers as mobile reserves where you can throw them into points that is breaking. Instead of the 1 division spam and back stab then transform into another division type. Just doesn't make sense as in real life such conversion ( German mariner to infantry) takes a few months atleast. Paratroopers start with 0 organization also don't work, as Paras go into action the moment they land.
They can start with low morale (20%) and work from there. That way Para can do a lot of damage if left unchecked as they should be. Also para supplies need some work, right now they are far too low and plane supply too few, you can't exactly do D Day or Market Garden without a bazzilion transport plane on supply. To balance this they could also be given a penalty to hard attack (as Para are light infantry, and don't carry heavy weaponry around) so armor hard counter them.
You can get a general with a paratrooper trait, it gives an ability like last stand that gives paratroopers full org when they land, but most countries don’t start with one
@@seangallagher9435 It is a real pain to train a general specifically for them. Also paras are best when you open the war with them, they are rather useless if you are already in one. For example, if you go para route, you can hop onto the brits early as germany and shut them down via holland (if you annex them early).
Also paratroopers sometimes just decide to not go at all.
Even if you have everything you need.
I believe if you hover over the order or maybe its the green arrow you click to exectute the order and it will tell you why its not happening. It does tell you somewhere when you dont have enough planes or air seperiority.
Gotta press enter after doing your paradrop order
Paratroopers suck because I have to read articles and watch youtube videos for an hour to figure out why they won't deploy and then still not be able to figure out what's wrong
After the disastrous micro clickfest of Crete, Hitler never attempted to do paradrops every again.
I feel like Marines are the only good special forces. They have faster naval invade speed and after you invade they are good and pushing across rivers.
Not really about paratroopers, but I kinda always wished I could move troops between airports using transport planes... makes sense, doesn't it? Of course they have to be in range and why not, like naval transports, if they are shot down you will lose your troops. Maybe there could be the limit that you cannot transport tanks that way.
That's how I thought it would work but it didn't :(
@@dutchrjenwe have division weight. Why isn't it possible to land divisions with a weight lower than x at airport 2 from airport 1? Would that really be hard to implement?
14:40 It's the same as naval invasions and it's so annoying. I always want to invade multiple provinces with the same army group, just in case 1 fails, especially if taking a port fails or gets bogged down, I can just surround the port with the other landings. But the system to make the orders and then assign units to each of those orders is so annoying.
Do other war type orders work when you aren't at war? I haven't tried to naval invade myself while at peace so I have no idea
The easiest way would be to paint target regions (like in area defence) And when you click go. The ai would make the landings.
It would make far more sense if the special forces had higher hp
Don't quite remember how, but the game did give me a tooltip saying that I didn't have enough transport planes for the paradrop. I think I might've moved the cursor over the plan on the map itself. However, this was in a mod for Hoi4, so it might've been a case of the mod being better than the base game.
You have to press enter after you click a destination.
Is there a way to improve the range of the Transport planes tho?
We also need Spec Ops Support Company and Spec Ops Battalions - something like Rangers, SSF, Commando, Brandenburgers in a division. Instead of being very strong statwise they would add good terrain modifiers and general buff to a division
What rework?
I would paradrop to subscribe, but the buttons are too finicky
*No paratroopers in the Command Group*
When they did the airplanes wing rework, it really screwed up the paratroopers drop mission. It was easier before that rework.
To exit the paratrooper screen, press enter to accept the para drop order
I wonder if his mind has changed after the special forces rework.
would you not just press enter to confirm the paradrop order? or just click the paradrop button again
I remember a long time ago I was watching someone give advice on how to play Warcraft III. Some things I knew, some things I didn't, overall it was okay and I appreciated the insight into certain things. But the top comment under the video was "Clicker newb thinks they can give gaming advice". Because he wasn't using keyboard shortcuts, but using the mouse.
Been twenty years, but listening to you talk about things like "Look, not everyone has spent that much time in the game. Some people need tool tips, some people need to know what is wrong, some people don't understand basic mechanics that you with your 2K+ hours in the game do" really jogs that memory.
Like these 'really smart, talented and not at all socially awkward people' have trouble comprehending that there may be things they know that other people don't.
I wonder if the loss of equipment has to do with the mission efficiency? Did he still have the airport overstacked?
Or maybe an air accident of the transport planes?
Soviet focus tree is completely absurd. You can get 20% special forces cap and easily field 48 20w divisions by 1943. Id like to see a sliding scale mechanic implemented for special forces. Higher cap for lower quality total army with division limits like kaiserreich.
The special forces research would be much improved if it increased your minimum special forces limit. If it went from 24 to 36 to 48, it wouldn't change anything for major nations but for minors like Canada, NZ and other low manpower nations they can realistically get more special forces.
I play with a few basic mods (player led peace confrences, state transfer tool, beautiful states(or whatever its called now)) and for some reason paratroopers crash my game?
Paratroopers have been plain bugged for so long now :/
I don’t even want to use them anymore because it’s such a pain in the butt to keep redeploying transport planes (and they lose their XP every time)
What I also think is an issue, is the encirclement penalty on Paratroopers should be like 0. They thrive behind enemy lines, they die, ok fine, but the reason its shit is because it takes ages for them to retrain, and you ll lose like a ton of equipment.
Also (i dont have the plane designer dlc) one issue I found is that you cant ''upgrade' your transportplanes, like f.e. more capacity, range, extra supply drop whatever. Which makes your transport planes in 1947 still reach like only a few hundred km or drop next to no supply.....
The correct thing to do is press “enter” to approve a mission😊
My chief disappointment with paratroopers has nothing to do with how annoying and buggy paradrops are.
I just think airborne divisions have a shitty niche of cheesing the AI without any other real general application to gameplay that makes them worth getting otherwise.
If you have to pick two of the three special forces divisions to invest into, you damn near always go mountaineers and marines because they just have better overall utility than paratroopers.
I wish airborne divisions had more of a niche as elite shock troops and commandos where they could do cool shit that makes paratroopers more useful as a separate branch of the special forces.
DEFINATELY get a shortcut PDX!
3:13 you press enter after clicking the destination, not ESC
War is not a game. The tactical use of paratroopers is to gain an advantage of a battle plan. This video is total carp.
Well, it does tell you why the order isn't starting but you must hover over the "arrow" itself and it will show. But paras are still bugged AH, I use them only when I play Germany and only if I cannot gain the 50% naval supremacy to invade Britain. In a recent game I launched the order but only one of them executed (I put multiple orders around the port and on port itself) and I had to figure out why isn't it working and it was the amount of transports (it's almost always the amount of transports). In the end yeah, guess they aren't as convenient as naval invasions but personally for me they are super satisfying and I love the concept itself
I have 300h and often trolled people with paratroopers. Not a single time did I have such an issue with the order
Not enough transports. The annoying workaround is repeatedly select a few units at a time and drop them. Horrible UI design. Obviously should be able to select a general, click paradrop and drag a frontline to assign paradrops. Not enough transports it drops them sequentially.
PDX should fix annoying bugs that spoil the game. Expanding frontlines, frontlines making circles, too many friendly divisions in a province.
I think the loss of equipment is due to the paradrop itself, the idea being to reflect that paradrops were usually a messy shit show of operations
Yeah Paradox need to make it clearer for noobs , personally I have zero issue and they are my main go to , always have them , they are just handy when you want them ,
As a mountaineer, I completly agree!
I like paratroops, because if you can’t get naval supremacy on nations like China or something like that, they are the godlike tier
Yeah, paradroping is a waste of time at the moment. It would be great if you could airlift units from one airport to another.
Would not be cool if the AI could Para drop naval invasions are bad enough
Yeah, but can you paradrop a ship?
I did a Japan run using Paratroops and smashed the Allies and then I see this video up wtf
Why do you need Transports for ALL paratroopers in a General's orders? If you don't have enough, why don't they just go one at at time? I think it does work that way sometimes, but not all the time...?
They said my paratroopers were weak...
One way to balance special forces without a cap would be to penalize them harder than normal units for being rookies and make them require more experience to train and gain levels. So maybe marine and mountaineers wouldn't get any terrain bonuses if they are rookies, and paratroopers can't paradrop if they are rookies. As it is it's dumb that you can take your mountaineer corps, change their template to marines and immediately they can do naval invasions with almost no penalty. On the other hand the special forces cap is completely gamey and just makes it so that fielding special forces as a small country is practically impossible.
And I though I was noob for not knowing how paratroopers work in HOI4! LOL!
Now I'm just noob for not knowing how to maintain manpower during long wars. Yey!
The only time I use paratroopers is when I play old world blues with a brotherhood/enclave nation
If the AI did paratroops, we would have garrison orders for the train lines, or at least supply depots, as they could easily cripple our troops that way
Paratroopers are really fun in singleplayer but it's not effective, and you barely can get 5 competent paratroopers div out because of the special forces cap. Paradox really need to rework them.
Paratroopers work when they feel like I find, sometimes I can drop into England other times nothing happens........🤣
Your paratroopers weren't working because the paradrop mission, same as naval invasion, needs to be prepared first and that take several days before you are able to issue order to paradrop. You also need the superiority over areas that you will be crossing with your planes (same as with naval invasions). Also, paratroopers are the worst special forces as they get no terrain bonuses unlike Marines or Mountaneers. Their only advantage is that you can create a diversion far behind enemy lines and keep some enemy forces away from the frontlines for a while.
No there is no preparation for paradrop missions. As you will notice when he sets up the drop on the Netherlands in this video it happens instantly if all requirements are met.
@@Nilboggen Ah, just tested that myself. So, you don't need specific preparation, my bad on that one, but your divisions will be weaker in combat if you drop them too quickly as they need to gather organisation if they were moving to the airfield.
You also need:
- 1 Transport wing for each division that you want to drop.
- Air superiority in the area that you want to dop into.
You can check what's missing to launch your drop if you hoover your mouse over the paradrop arrow on the game map. A bit silly, but that's where the game will tel you that you need extra airwing to make your drop. Sadly, unlike naval landing you won't get that info on the mission launch button.
Finally, paradrops have one massive downside and that is a very limited range of transport planes. 1000km is not that much in some areas and you often can't find right airfield to reach your target.
yknow what why not make transport planes equipment for paratroopers to use.
Are you from Hull ?
Don't understand why hoi4 doesn't have expanded dropdown tool tips like their other games
❤
they are made to capitulate france real fast, thats enough for me
IF you know how to use them effectively they are just brokenly strong.
I don't use them at all, they are just not fair.