The IMPOSSIBLE skilift that actually exists
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Traditional skilifts cannot turn in all four directions due to the way they are built. And yet there is one to defeat this limitation with a surprisingly simple invention. Discover the Hohstock skilift, built in 1982 and the very last of its kind located in Switzerland.
Technical data:
Location: Belalp (Naters VS), Switzerland
Length: 1815m
Altitute: 2654-3113m over sea level
Producers: Borer, Küpfer, Kissling
Further links (in German, use a translation service):
- Technical data: www.seilbahninventar.ch/objek...
- History (Belalp): www.belalp.ch/belalpbahnen/ge...
- Skilift technologies: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurvens...
- Liftworld (overview): seilbahntechnik.net/de/lifts/...
- Gondelbahn Monde (video of full ride): • Hohstock
00:00 Intro
00:27 Mighty ropeways
00:55 Skilift basics
01:28 The clamp
02:23 (Im)possible directions for turns
03:17 Partial solution 1: pushing the limits (Skilift at Bürchen)
03:47 Partial solution 2: turn until it fits (Skilift at Chäserrugg)
04:57 The impossible skilift (Hohstock, Belalp)
06:04 The solution that makes it possible anyway
07:35 More awesomeness - Věda a technologie
They really pulled out all the stops for that ski lift! It's like the designers were just having fun when they decided to make the last support float!
I haven't went skiing since 2014, and only on a small hill, but the engineering of this ski lift sounds fascinating. :) One of the many reasons I enjoy science and technology, and traveling.
It's only a counter balance to hold the lines tight !
Am always amazed when people use technology which could potentially be harmful to them if it broke and thinking that its all "fun" !!!
@@team3383 So you mean literally almost every piece of technology? Are you afraid of planes, cars and elevators too?
@@GowGows I'm afraid of people who think that technology which is there to protect them is a bit of fun !
The suspended reinforced concrete block is suspended to tighten the cables and be mobile thus leaving some wiggle room for the cable which is not taught as tight as a violin string FOR A REASON. Not for fun.
Try reading correctly next time.
@eblman Wow. Did I ever say I was afraid of handrails, airplanes, Cars or anything for that matter ???
Again you do not read the English language correctly.
Do you think - as the Author suggests - that an engineer had FUN (not the general public having fun sliding down them) designing and implementing a handrail up/down a staircase ?.
Cheers.
I've been riding the Hohstock lift for more than 10 years but I have never noticed the geniusnes of it until this random video popped up on my YT-frontpage. Have to pay more attention next time I'm there to actually appreciate the technical beauty of the lift!
Absolutely amazing, I’ve been skiing my entire life and I’ve always thought it was impossible for ski lifts to make large turns like that.
No idea how I ended up here, I don't even Ski, but this kind of observation and questioning mechanical solutions or just "how things work" is right down my slope. Interesting and very well explained, thanks!
See what you did there😂
Someday I'd love to ski in the Alps. The extent of the terrain blows my mind.
It is truly amazing
Put some money aside. Our skiable domain is vaste but it's also quite expensive. Not only to ride, but for hotels and food too.
@@thierryfaquet7405 It doesn't have to be that expensive. If you're from the USA, sure, but it's very common for Czech families to go skiing to the Alps in the winter. I'm talking about regular middle-class families.
@@westboy52 I’m swiss buddy. Swiss alps are expensive… And the average income of Czechs is way lower than the USA
@@thierryfaquet7405 Oh, Swiss Alps definitely are. Everything is ridiculously expensive for the average Czech in Switzerland. But Austria is alright. Also when I said "when you're from the USA" I had the flight ticket on my mind, which is a good chunk of money. Probably almost equal to a whole week of skiing in Austria.
They have one of those wierd turns at a T-bar lift in Åre, Sweden. Since seeing it for the first time I've been fascinated by it
Yes! I believe you refer to the Hamre lift in Duved (adjacent to and within the Åre skiresort area)?
@@christopherjeverud8543 Yeah, that's the one!
@@alfredsaalo1441 there is one in Finland too!
There's one at keystone too I think
There are multiple ones like that apart from Duved. For example in Björnen there are about 4 of those. And there are more in the "rör kullen" area.
The Hohstock is actually extremely fast and some years ago, you even went without ground contact for a second (they now filled the part in summer, so you don’t lift up).
Hi sorry what exactly is ground contact?
You mean since it’s a Tbar it would lift you while you are trying to hang on?
@@Svenshine That's what I'm wondering too
Do you mean air time when traversing a hill? That fast?
@@Svenshine probably just going so fast that you do a small jump when you go over a hill
You should see the Pomagalaski/Tatrapoma button lifts. They can do as many turns as you can imagine having just one rope, in addition, they are detachable. All this is due to a special, but very simple attachment to the rope. Old but beautiful pieces of engineering! They can be seen for example in CZ, SK, or FRA.
Pristine snow, gorgeous vistas and elegant engineering - these are a few of my favourite things.
Lovely exposition - thank you.
I've seen a button lift that can turn both ways through a mechanism resembling a middle station only there was no actual building. The bar would seamlessly detach from the rope and reattach to a new rope going at an angle, forming two loops. Some bars would dettach but others would remain and head back down following a logic I couldn't figure out. The real fun part began after the switch where the terrain would go downhill. So much so that your skis would start to outpace the lift itself, making it impossible to hold on to the bar. It caught me so unprepared that I had to do a couple of early dropouts to realize I needed to do a snowplow to get past that stretch.
sounds quite rough for snowboarders xD
That sounds like an interesting mechanism as well. I knew those existed for gondulas, but I haven't seen those for tow Lifts yet. I wonder which would be more expensive to build, the two ropes or the middle station.
@@dextrodus I doubt there's a significant difference. Drag lifts are relatively cheep installations that have a very long life expectancy. A reliability track record comparison could be interesting though.
@@gvaley POMA made a few detachable platter lifts back in the 1970s or 80s. They have a "magazine" of sorts that holds the detached bars at the bottom. There is a stoplight and when it turns green it releases the hanger onto the cable. There is one in Åre, Sweden (Vargenliften) and in Hemsedal in Norway. From what I have heard its absolute hell to maintain them compared to a normal platter or T bar lift.
@@maxcalabrese5962 Yup, that's the one I'm referring to. They still run, considering they were built in the 70s or 80s, so I guess they are not hard to maintain. But I've only seen one making a turn.
Great Video 🎥 Thank for explaining. 👍🏼
Holy cow! They have one with a turn in Breckenridge, too, and they do that whole dipsy-doo that you describe before getting to the Hohstock. I always wondered what the heck they were smoking when they designed it but now it makes perfect sense! The inside turn problem. Can't wait to quiz my ski buddies. ;)
Nice! Your revelation is exactly what I was hoping to provoke when I had the idea for this video. Thanks for sharing your reaction :-)
do you mean beckenried?
@@philippkaufmann8 I meant Breckenridge, CO USA. The Snowflake lift.
@@cswalker21 ohhh thanks for the info! Will be there next week and hope to check it out
Snowflake lift came to my mind first!
Detachable ski lifts can turn in every directions since the fixation is around the cable. When the cable need to pass over a wheel, there is a guide to push the fixation to either side needed
This is definitely more cost effective, and a detachable station is limited in the angle it can turn
This is not true, to perform a turn the grip would have to detach from the cable with the use of a mid station, search "transarc tcd" on Google and you will see what I mean
@@caiwilkie6453 exactly
@@caiwilkie6453 thats how most of the bigger lifts works where i ski. theres a mid station where the lift detaches from the cable, then moved slowly with normal rubber wheels and lifted on the second cable after the turn. Its for 8 or 10 seaters usually.
An advantage of detaching is also that you can go faster since people can be gently accelerated up to the rope speed.
This is my absolute favourite type of videos to watch! Thank you so much for making it, the explanation you give makes this video so pleasant. I came here after watching your other skilift video btw ;)
My family and I always went to Blatten-Belalp, I learned skiing there! How nice to find out 20 years later that this lift there is really special. And I love the tunnel, that black piste was my favorite even as a little boy.
Gotta say, a kid who could come up with that solution is going to be a genius..
Super cool video. Thanks for making it and giving me a tour of some resorts that I may never ski at.
I knew this lift on Belalp. Now I understand why it has this two ropes. Thank you for this video!
So clever, and so simple. Great video - thank you.
My initial reaction to the question of how to turn both directions was to use detectable chairs at turn stations, but I have to admit this is a pretty unique solution I did not think of. I am not sure it would work safely for chairs and gondolas though, which is probably why you only see it for ground lifts.
Most of the ground lifts around here have been replaced. Still a few fixed grip chairs but even they are getting rare, short or less used lifts mostly.
Look up the Snowflake Lift at Breckenridge. It's a chairlift that makes a 45 degree turn
@@darrenleary5534 I found this video czcams.com/video/0dysuh-0qJY/video.html which doesn't really go into it but it looks like it uses 2 outside turns to make the inside turn on the way down like the first ground lift in this video. Pretty cool but I imagine no downloading.
@@darrenleary5534 I skiid by that last month and thought it was super wierd looking. Ive now gone full circle
It's so sad that most ground lifts are being replaced in most places...
im not a snowsportsman but i am an engineer and the setup to the problem and explanation to the solution was absolutely beautiful
Wow, that is really cool. What a simple and elegant solution!
You just sent me down a rabbit hole. I remembered that back when I was really young, I knew a ski lift with two turns. It took me an hour to find out more details since it was replaced by a chairlift in 2001. Turns out it was "only" a Viereckslift, but it cleared a height difference of 500m in a total length of 1800m, much of it going through the middle of nowhere. As a kid, this was solid nightmare fuel. I still get flashbacks of the anxiety that hit me whenever one of the turns came up, because I was always expecting not to make it. I'm just glad I didn't start snowboarding until way later, because that thing probably would have ripped out my leg on the long run.
The parallel rope solution is incredibly satisfying, such a good idea!
Really well made video, you explained everything in a very entertaining way
Wonderful video and commentary. Fascinating. Thankyou and best wishes from England
Tolle Aufnahmen, schön vorgetragen, gut erklärt!
That's actually pretty nice. Thanks for the vid. :)
This is awesome, thanks for creating.
Wow, what an awesome video! First it's very well explained, and I never saw the final solution despite being a ropeway enthusiast myself. It's pretty clever!
As other solutions, there is the triangluar shape, where the descending side is not parallel to the ascending one ; or that Poma lift in an indoor ski slope with a bull wheel featuring a notch ; or on a bigger ropeway, that awesome "wave" where they used the principle described at 3:43 to the extreme, basically adding those tamer curves one after the other.
Huh. Funny you’re here. I swear, you pop up in the most in-roller coaster related content I can think of.
I've been skiing for 50 years and only now am I finally learning how ski lifts work....
Wow, awesome video, thanks for producing it
very nice video! Easy and slowly explained! Thanks!
Bro soo coool. Thank you for taking the time to make this video
The side by side cables and T mount idea was a good one. I believe it would make for a much safer lift over all, not just on the turns and supports. Nice video. Thanks.
This has been one of my favorite videos to watch :)
great video and explanation, there is more to a skilift than meets the eye
Highly informative. Thanks for sharing!
This is the best video on CZcams. People must stop trying to beat it
I just used those lift my whole life without thinking about how they work in detail. Amazing to see!
I'm actually amazed by such ingenuity and apparent simplicity !
This was amazing. I'm gonna have to go and check this out. (Fortunately I live in Vaud, Switzerland).
Well made video, thank you Kalsan! :)
That was absolutely brilliant and very well explained, thank you very much!!
Thank you for this video. Appreciate it.
As a Yank I'm surprised to see people loading themselves on a T-Bar and on a fixed grip. Here in the states, we have too many lawyers and too many idiots to just trust people to safely board a lift without someone there to help them
In the 1970s Doppelmayr did a big sell of self loading T-bars to ski resorts in Australia. Needless to say people couldn't load onto them properly and after a couple of years of carnage, every one of those self loaders got a liftie to place the T under skiers bums.
In Romania all the T-Bars I've seen had a liftie. BUT. If you think you can't handle putting a T-Bar under your ass, you'll have to wait for the liftie to finish their cigarette, and you better let everyone else in front of you until then.
I'm exaggerating a bit of course, but yeah, there's a liftie, who sometimes help, but they're mostly there to press the stop button if someone manages to get tangled, legs up, face in snow.
there's always that one guy who hates safety.
Well sometimes you have to do it yourself, and in my opinion and I hope most of my swiss and Austrian friends agree, when you are not capable to lift urself on a tbar u should not be allowed to ski alone in such a terrain. And thank god you could not sue someone because you are to retadet to use a infrastructure given to you by someone else.
Cool, fascinating video! Have seen a lot of ski lifts but nothing like this! Thanks for documenting....very well done!
Thank you for your lovely comments on multiple videos! I read every comment and even though I cannot reply to all of them, they motivate my to do similar videos in the future, when I have some time.
Pretty amazing, thanks for sharing!
When I was a child I used to attempt to build chairlifts using mechano. I was always fascinated with machines and engineering involved.
I made a skitour with friends around this skilift and admired its unique way of dealing with curves. At this time, it was not yet in function, as the main season had not begun, but now, it is running again and I might go there skiing, just to see this amazing piece of engineering in function later this winter.
Truly awesome! The only chairlift, which makes turns, that I have ridden is at Chaika resort on the Black sea coast in Bulgaria. It was built back in the 80s and connects the hotels up the hill with the beach down, making a 90 degrees turn in the middle. Since it is a standard fixed grip chairlift, it uses the "two sharp left turns, to make it go right" concept for the outward turn.
It's pure genius, it's got to be the most amazing skilift i have ever seen... I have always had a preference for surface lifts over aerial ones as well.
That is some unique, yet simple engineering. Wow the views are spectacular.
Such a cool video, thank you!
I saw in the Verkehrshaus Luzern that this is the VonRoll patent lift. They had even chair lifts with two ropes. Great video!
This is a very well done video. It's interesting to see how different and unique this t-bar is.
It's not really unique. There's a chairlift in Colorado that does it too.
That's a very interesting design, thank you for sharing. I've always been fascinated by skilifts with curves myself.
Another design option (the simplest one) is to let the returning T-bars go back to the bottom in a straight line (not always possible due to terrain). That doesn't require a lot of extra masts, as they usually are far above ground anyway and it doesn't matter anyway on the return side. Examples of this still in service are the Hauptertäli skilift located on Parsenn in Davos and the Hubel skilift located on Rinerhorn, also in Davos. They both have two turns for terrain reasons.
Another interesting design not shown in this video is in use in Pany on the local skilift. It has a right turn using two wheels. Upwards you just pass on the outside, but downwards the T-bars get kinda smashed in between the two wheels.
You have a very pleasant way of presenting; your voice is very calming and soothing. Audiobooks about astrophysics and philosophy would sound very therapeutic
Expected a lift that makes one turn and thought of the crossover solution (seen those before, quite fun indeed).
Wasn't disappointed by the actual impossible lift. Nice solution :)
Great video. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day.
Tatra poma solved that issue by using springs and protectors on big wheels. From my experience it was a little bit prone to accidents and the rope fell if someone dropped at the right time. So when we fell we know we have to release before or after that big support wheel.
Brings back memories, I spent many years in Belalp riding that lift.
LMAO when I clicked on this video, I did not expect to see that "weird lift" i spent almost every winter of my childhood.
Thank you for sharing this interesting solution
I've grown up with the Hohwald Skilift in Beatenberg, Switzerland, which does a nearly 80° left turn. As Kids we would sit beside the turn and laugh people and tourists from outside, falling from the T-bars around the corner, as we of course knew the trick how to do it :)
As an engineer and a skier, this is the coolest video I’ve seen on CZcams
that is a perfect definition of a genius solution. Just
Bravo
This was actually interesting. Thanks
great video, man!
Awesome info that I really never thought about on my ski trips. :D
Used to live in Chile, at the Valle Nevado resort they also have a ski lift with a direction change in the middle. If I recall correctly it is just managed by pushing the descending bar into a sideways position to make the outward turn. It just separates the ropes vertically to avoid conflicts and has some bars mounted from the mast to stop excess swinging.
Awesome video, very well put togehter and with a nice progression. I always thought that whatever happen, a lift could only turn left or right. That system is genius !
Very cool vid, thanks!
So far the Flaschen Gondelbahn is my favourite. It has a certain character. Great video, thanks.
6:17 the tiny tube lift near my house uses a very basic cheap system like this. The bar between the two cables is straight and doesn't swivel. The cable is actually at ankle height and the bar is about 3 feet long to provide standoff (the lift slope is very slightly angled away from the cable as well so anyone who falls off slides to the side away from the cable) I suspect the swivel is only needed on this one since the cables are overhead.
What it looks like when you have a mission but unlimited budged unlocked... Truly amazing
Great video. I knew about Käserrugg, taken it many times, but forgot it only turns in one direction.
Nice video. Interesting stuff!
That is exceptionally satisfying!
Cool stuff my man thank you!
In Berwang there is also a Skilift with a turn it is the Thanellerkarlift. On the way down there are no curves, the anchor lifts go straight down again so that no curves have to be taken
this video made me so happy hahah. Sehr schön erchlärt!
Fascinating, we have a skilift called "Tatralift" (Tatrapoma) that has only one wheel yet is still able to do very sharp turns. Would suggest looking into that, it's very cool!
Poma Lifts are quite popular in norwegian resorts. one wire, can turn, can deploy on demand, and fits all.
Fascinating Topic, and well told. I went Skiing in a nearby Resort a few years ago, it's a shame I didn't know about this back then..
A nice video. CZcams was suggesting it to me for a couple of weeks but I was ignoring it because I thought it must have been some non-sense. But now I'm glad I clicked on it after all :-) The turns must be difficult for snowboard beginners.
WOW. I had no idea how little I knew about ski lifts.
This is a great example why engineers should rule the world 🤣. Finding elegant simple solutions to seemingly imposible problems. Great video!
Love it! I always feel like the Swiss love to put trains and lifts in the most difficult places, as if they enjoy the challenge. Having built a few lifts, inuding a 500' rope tow in my forest, I have tons of appreciation for this work.
Unfortunately, these really ingenious engineering solutions will slowly but surely be replaced with chairlifts. Usually, the reason for such awkward T-bar lift routings is the need to circumnavigate some terrain obstacles. Chairlifts obviously have less or no such constraints as the skiers are lifted above ground. Cool video. Being central Switzerland based, I have never been to Belalp. I should go there before that lift gets replaced.
Oh great, now I want to ride an opposite turn chairlift!
There are a few place in Spain (boi taull) and France (Puigmal) where at the top there can only be ground lifts because of the wind. At boi taull they even replaced a chair lift with a T-bar last summer because of it. So there is still some hope for these.
On glaciers it can be really hard to build lifts because the ice moves (though, very slowly). You can still build a ground lift and move the masts as the ice moves but chairlifts need more stable masts that are build into stone.
czcams.com/video/lVdUHu4KFN4/video.html
From the title I thought this was clickbait but it's actually a cool vid. Well done!
One skilift I know solved the turn problem by completely separating the uphill and downhill "legs" of the cable loop. The uphill leg (the one carrying skiers) would turn left halfway up with a large horizontal wheel, while the downhill leg would go straight from the top to the bottom. Essentially it was the hypotenuse of a triangular loop. It probably meant they had to cut down a few more trees but it is certainly an interesting lift.
Very informative video. Makes me almost want to go skiing again..except for I hate any temps under 32f..:)
Clever! I wish more of these double-rope T-bars were built.
Very cool video!
It is very interesting, there is another different solution in Poland. Find video "laskowa, wyciag orczykowy". They used instead of horizontal or vertical wheels, just a wheel at 45 degree angle.
If you use horizontal upper wheel and tilt it a little bit, you can make a small turn (even in the opposite side than rope handle is projected). When you tilt the wheel even more, and use narrow rope handle you can make steeper turn in the opposite side.
Amazing video!
Very cool. I have been to wildhaus and at the restaurant on chaeserrugg but never noticed the t bar. GREAT VIDEO!
There's a T-bar at Perisher in Australia that turns a corner but they do it by making the descending cable go down the mountain in a straight line between the top and bottom stations cutting across a face that is out of resort boundaries and is also too steep and rocky to navigate via the surface. When viewed from above the path of the lift is a big triangle.
For the first 6 minutes the only reason I was watching was becuase I love these accents and explaining technical things. At 6:08 though I gave it some actual thought, and when I saw the solution I got REALLY REALLY EXCITED. way more than I expected even. My solution was the cable is woven out of multiple smaller wires, so it should be possible to inserts it straight through the bottom to the top and weave the cable around that.
I didn't get the solution, maybe because he said that it doesn't use "novel shapes". The t-shape of the clamp is definitely novel compared to the usual t-bar lifts.
Thanks for sharing this knowledge. I will never look at a skilift the same again 😁