Katanas Aren’t ✨MAGIC✨(And Longswords Aren’t Bats)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2021
- Die Another Day has a really interesting epee/infantry sword/longsword fight, so let’s break it down.
Special thanks to Jack and to Tsunami Seeker ( / @tsunamiseeker2004 ) who, when I said “I need people competently using longswords please” were happy to oblige.
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And so much of it could have been avoided if Bond had used Bonetti's Defense, I guess it really is best when considering rocky terrain.
But Graves studied his Agrippa.
Why does this feel like it should be about a game of chess
@@persiswynter6357 But he doesn't seem a descent fellow. Did anyone check to see if he had six fingers on his right hand?
Inconthievable!
@@AHGrayLensman You keep on using that word- I do not think it means what you think it means...
As a foil fencer, I will say it. Epee is foil fencing for people who don't like rules.
Apparently these guys weren't playing with rules at all though, as the Ref should have carded someone for the Corps-a-corps and Bond kept starting infront of the En Guard line.
I just like stabbing people without getting in trouble, is that too much to ask?
As en Epee fencer, I agree :)
As a saber fencer, I find both too restricting. Let me use my edge!
As a billhook defencer I find having just one point and two edges too restrictive
Die Another Day was a carefully disguised fantasy movie/RPG that the DM swiftly lost control of. It makes so much more sense if you picture the characters from Critical Role.
Die Another Day is awesome
I will definitely do that next time Im watching it: keyleth uses solar beam, scanlan uses surf... No wait I'm thinking of pokemon XD
Dice Another Day
I use that same logic for the movie Bright. It’s fine if you think of it as a variant Shadowrun campaign where the DM was proud of his worldbuilding and his friends were too nice to tell him how much of a mess it was.
"Did you know Invisibility works on objects? I make our carriage invisible!"
Followed by the sounds of the GM pulling their hair out. Yeah it tracks.
I think the sloppy long sword fighting in the end was simply the choreographer doing his job by showing the general audience that these characters have become ridiculously tired and spent and should stop fighting. It brings that feeling of relief when Miranda breaks it up. He did a good job.
I really enjoy your perspective. There is a difference between actual combat and telling stories through combat, and I didn't really appreciate this difference until you pointed it out.
Really, though. I've been practicing various martial arts for years, and never thought about a fight scene being an expression of self like that.
This is one of the last good James Bond though. Also movies are not about reality; they are about telling a story, which is far more complicated then you think coz reality doesn't always lend itself for a good story. I can, but it's quite rare. Further about fighting and Hollywood.... yeah not realistic in the slightest. I yet have to see a movie where some actor isn't sliced to death with a sword while wearing chainmail..... yeah and we shoot confetti out of a crossbow.... 😂
This makes perfect sense to a fan of professional wrestling.
@@stijnvdv2 Authenticity *does* lend itself to a good story, though. It enhances immersion, and good storytellers will find a way to adhere to rules and internal logic within their universe, and actually use it to enhance their story. It can still be fantastical, whilst being authentic and competent in what it portrays
What was a shame in this fight, is the first scene Graves was actually introduced in a scene of him using taekwondo. The audience doesn't know they are the same character at this point but we don't see the fighting style carry over from one actor to the other.
This makes it seem like they are two separate people because it's hard to believe that the same character uses precise agility and Korean influence in one part and then after changing his appearance he is using brute force and mostly western weapons.
They even had the perfect opportunity to mirror the scene where he explains the grenade launcher to Bond before firing on the helicopter, he could explain a sword before attacking Bond without warning to make it seem like we have already met the character.
I would go as far as to say that ruined the entire movie, because if the audience doesn't actually believe the twist then it's just noise. A random English guy is building a space laser to help North Korea break through the DMZ, which is similar but unrelated to the intro sequence.
Yes Jill, you're certifiable.
Certifiably awesome.
I like ur pfp, words to live by.
AMEN
When I first saw the Katana cut the sword, my thoughts weren't "Oh that's dumb." it was "Oh, I guess they were using cheap replica sword wall hangars and that one's proper steel", with the assumption that, they're literally wall hangars, while the other swords (I believe?) were either in display cases implying antiques, or in a functional looking rack, not a display piece.
Using a real katana, you cut rolled tatami mats. And those things are thick and difficult, BUT still not nearly as impossible as shearing a metal blade in two. If you don't have a perfectly lined up cut, it's hard to get a good cut through bamboo without damaging your sword and that guy swung it like a baseball bat.
@@Laneous14 To be clear, I don't believe it "cut" the other sword, I just use that term for the sake of the video. It likely made a small initial cut a few mms deep from the impact but because Bond was pushing against it, it simply snapped the flimsy blade. Which I have even done by accident when I swung a fake half-sword (So even more resistant to break due to the smaller length) accidently collided with a wall and snapped it like a ruler.
It's worth noting that Mythbusters did an episode on this, and even with cheap cast-made swords and a properly forged katana, it took nearly inhuman levels of strength to break them.
That makes sense but the infantry swords are sharp enough to cut people (idk if replicas can do that, I’ve had some before and I never tried tried it, obviously) right off the rack, and katanas being magically sharp and durable is a very early/mid 2000s thing. Idk it just has that energy
9:05 When I saw this movie originally, I thought Graves' katana broke Bond's sword because Bond had a sword that was, to some extent, decorative or ceremonial. Graves pulled them off the wall after all.
Many proper combat swords could do that to decorative or ceremonial blade if the blade was brittle. A brittle blade would be the result of uncontrolled carbon content and/or quenching without subsequent tempering or annealing (i.e. cheaply made and/or made to look nice rather than to be practical).
Though such a blade probably wouldn't have survived the prior fight.
Nah, this is 2002, basically the late 90s, peak Katanas Are Magic time. If I had a dime for every weeaboo sincerely trying to argue that katanas can actually do stuff like *cut through tank armor*, I'd... have a hell of a lot of dimes.
Ceremonial blades are stainless steel a lot of the time. I've got a ceremonial officer's sabre, and it's stainless steel. Also isn't sharpened at all.
@@cassandra2860 I agree, décorative swords or cheap modern made ones (like mine) are brittle and can break easily if hit on the flat sides.
she really likes too hear her own voice.
don't forget these swords are live lol.
@@nikoteardrop4904 I saw it in the cinema when it came out.
"I don't want to say epee is foil for people who don't like rules... " shh don't say it! You'll give away the reason it's so much more fun.
Unless you DO like rules
- says a foilist
as a former epee fencer... can confirm this is why I enjoyed epee so much
As someone who has tried both - can confirm. Although fencing masters who really like it when you score point on underside of wrist or the big toe clearly know nothing about film drama requirements. :-) . But yeah, as Arya Stark might say - with epee we just like to stick them with the pointy end.
We all know sabres are utterly underestimated yet dramatically superiour to both yes? And no this has most definetly nothing to do with it being my weapon of choice or anything ...
@@MupfinSmiley sabre is awesome and I sucked at it when I was active in fencing. The guy who taught me (we had an awesome club in college, I was never a seriously competitive fencer, but I got to try a lot of different disciplines) was a whiz at it, and was exactly the small, lightning-fast kind of person who did really well at it. I, on the other hand, am tall and bulky and liked being able to fully abuse my long reach and ability to beat my opponents blade into next Tuesday.
Pro fencer and choreographer here! A great way to know if you are getting "authentic" sport fencing or in general very high quality swordplay is by counting if there are any **consecutive attacks** an attacker makes. At the end of each attack, a swordsperson is at their most vulnerable. Their arm and body are likely out of position to either minor, or major degrees. This means that an experienced opponent has every reason to counter attack (they have the advantage, why shouldn't they) and will do so unless you committed to the defense (retreated too far, parried sloppily). Now for choreography you see this all the time, since only making one rapid attack and then defending isn't very exciting/can be difficult for the audience to understand. But if you are fighting for your life, you are a capital I idiot for pressing your attack immediately after you screwed up, unless as above you know your opponent cannot counter. What is cool about this is it applies for almost every type of sword out there. No secret technology has been invented that allows a sword to negate the disadvantage of being vulnerable immediately after the attack, and every experienced swordsperson knows how to make the most of that window.
I love that you made such an authoritative sounding comment everyone is just 'upvote'
@@tamlandipper29 Is their something in their comment that is entirely erroneous that should dissuade upvotes? Do enlighten us.
I upvoted because the explanation they gave made sense, and I enjoy hearing from people who are familiar with the topic giving some insight into the art. If they had said, "I am a pro fencer and choreographer, and this fight was cool," I'd have probably moved on.
@@Prizzlesticks The comment is only true when two people of equal skill are fighting with the same level of commitment. Graves is clearly established as the far better fencer, but he loses because he's an emotional psychopath with no self control. When fighting against a less skilled opponent, especially someone who does not recognize openings or know how to counter attack, aggressive consecutive attacks can quickly overwhelm them, especially if the attacker is the better athlete with more endurance. Similarly, someone who is not committed to the fight or who doesn't want to kill you, like Bond in this scene, may not want to counter attack or may hesitate, and an angry aggressive opponent like Graves can take advantage with consecutive attacks. Moving to defense after an attack automatically only makes sense if your opponent knows how to counter attack and you're worried about them attacking you.
@@Prizzlesticks They were just saying the person's comment brooked no argument, which is rare on CZcams. Even you agreed with the original comment, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to question that someone else loved the comment.
@@ovni2295 Because frankly, their comment sounded insincere and snarky, so.
Years ago, when I was learning to fence, I had the luck to spar with an Olympic fencer who was mostly just toying with me. A few times he closed too close, and then raised his arm straight up (almost like an exaggerated prime parry) and managed to hit me with the tip. The second time I thought to myself "self, if our bodies touch then its a fault and we rest", only to discover that he could maintain the spacing so well that I just couldn't bump him before he hit me again. It's an interesting tactic and worth trying, for choreographing fights in tight spaces (or in crowds).
I love the way you balance these analyses between pointing out the technical flaws and appreciating the 'poetic license' required for drama.
Bond always carries a 'license to be poetic'
I’m an iaido practitioner and I can 100% confirm that the Katana is definitely not magic!
Wait, you’re telling me it can’t trap the souls of its victims?
Likewise - two-handed heavy sabre very good at chopping bits off other people ... and snapping feeble Western blades/guns/tanks in twain! How dare you speak otherwise, heretic!!!! :D
@@jacobd1984 unfortunately not!
As a wargamer a kantana gets +2 to a D6 roll to damage....devastating.
are you tho
Wow, Jill's blow by blow actually made the fight more tense and exciting than just watching it in the movie!
I mean Bond can operate a fighter-plane while garrotted by his co-pilot, fight on a fast moving hovercraft and still hit landmines laying around with deadly precission, Outpace a motorboat with another motorboat - WHILE SHORTCUTTING OVER LAND! - so we should give him a bit of leeway, when it comes to fencing with three or four different weapons in one go...
Many, many years ago, when taking a fencing class in college, the professor let us have a free for all
Everyone was allowed to pick whichever weapon we preferred (foil, saber, epee). I won with a saber, beating out the fencing team and everyone else with the same technique. When they thrust at me, I slapped them in the forearm. I'm always amused watching fencing in movies that focus on the torso when arms and head are ignored.
Katanas are beautifully made, definitely works of art... But definitely not magic.
But, but, it's a KATANA! You know. A KATANA!
I take a pokey bit taped to a broomstick. Or 2 pokey bits
The only magic Katanas have is the ability to convince everyone that they are able to cut through anything.
@@InsufficientGravitas It isn't "magic" but they will cut through any arm that is offered to them, JUST like the opening poster alluded to "Slap in forearm" and step through and seek another target.
When I was in training, I could "cut" an opponent on the wrist quicker than my OWN thought process, literally it was an afterthought, as I would be setting up some other attack, I would simply find myself completing a wrist cut that had offered itself.
And I wasn't actually quick, my Sensai could and frequently DID cut "Koto, do, men" and AFTER he had done it I would react.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 that is more that it's a reasonably light two-handed sword, optimised for cutting.
It is very good, but it's not materially any better than a European sword (as long as it is made and maintained at a similar level), although it may be a bit harder and therefore hold an edge a bit better, there are swords with roughly equal cutting power, for example the 1796 patter light cavalry saber (which is perfectly fine cutting through stuff, and is designed for use from horseback, e.g. with one hand)
I once nearly broke my thumb on a shield rim, despite a half gauntlet, and a full basket hilt with an extended thumbguard. once I could hold a hammer again, I added a thumb plate to the half gauntlet.
"They're sharp pieces of metal, their not.... Magic!"
Wait, what? But.... It's Katana!
Katana: "Shhh... don't listen to her."
Can confirm I've personally watched a katana slice through three tanks in a single blow
@@CarpeGuitarrem Oh, were you there? I was sore for three months after doing that.
She's got your back. I would advise not being killed by her.
I explain it thusly: some of the swords in that place were solely decorative. The British officers' swords happened to be replicas made of mild steel. This didn't matter while they were fighting with identical poor weapons, but when Graves picked up a _real_ sword, it was sharp and tough enough to break the blade. (Break it, not cut through it.) However, it's not a katana thing; any large and heavy sword made of proper steel would have done it.
Having done épée (years ago now, sadly), your assessment of it versus foil is dead on. It's basically fencing for people who believe that stabbing the other guy is the entire point rather than just being a happy by-product of correct movement.
Tangent by way of illustration: after practice, we'd organise games outside the gym where people could run around in teams and go for it. Which is a great way to learn that group fighting is completely different to individual duels. Another highlight was that one of the senior fencers used to be a gymnast (back when trampolines were briefly considered worthy of the Olympics). He managed on one occasion to forward-flip over another fencer, land on his feet and stab him in the back. He also had a nasty habit of finding a high spot to lurk in before jumping into our midst and having at it. Which means that the nearest I've ever seen to a real-life Errol Flynn was a compact, stocky guy with ginger hair and ADHD.
Edit: I can also confirm that épée tips (which are shaped a bit like a small rifle cartridge stuck onto the end of the sword backwards, and contain a button for scoring) have a nasty habit of getting under gear. This can be especially embarrassing, for instance, when you fence against a female opponent and manage to score a hit that somehow gets under the breast protector. Or shortly thereafter where said opponent lands a retaliatory hit which sneaks under the cup that you'd thought to wear...
Group epee fights sounds pretty badass. How did it work practically? Did you get "out" if you got hit?
@@DanielWilliams-oi4ss That was the usual rule - start with two groups and whoever gets hit is out. Carry on until one team has nobody left. Another variation was to have a 'home base' to run to and touch when you got hit, so battles just carried on (swinging to and fro) until everyone got bored.
I once heard a quote: "The katana is just a bastard sword with a good PR campaign." Thought you might appreciate it.
Love it :D
Spoken like someone who has never owned any kind of sword. Take a longsword verses a katana. The katana is made of harder steel and can hold a sharper edge which means there's more force being applied to cutting power. Truth hurts.
@@classicslover Wow. That is so wrong. And is spoken as someone who owns many swords, and is friends with several sword smiths.
Remember a Katana is made as is due to the quality of the starting metal being shit, and the process it goes through is to bring it up to the quality level of steel available outside Japan. You end up with a Hard edge, which means it is better at cutting (not by an extreme amount though) though it as worse at thrusting, edges chip more and has a habit of bending sideways (due to incorrect heat treat).
A longsword is a generalist sword, it thrusts well, Cuts well, can use to pommel and hilt as a bashing weapon. It is kept not as hard as steel armour is more of an issue and you don't want your sword snapping when it hits something hard.
Katana is still just a sword, it's not a lightsaber.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 Right off the top, you spread the internet myth of poor quality metal. Top quality iron sand in japan has 58% iron content. Also, iron sand was high in manganese and vanadium, which increases the strength of the steel. AND even the lower quality raw iron sand was purified to pretty good quality. None of my Katana bend sideways. (rolls eyes) They have an exceptionally hard and sharp edge. (There is a WHOLE art devoted to drawing a katana without cutting yourself. No other sword needs it.) And they are fast. Best at fighting multiple attackers, something strictly thrusting swords suck at. (And...pssst! Lightsabers are not real!)
@@classicslover Oh god, here I go, into the madness....
Note: I am talking about these tools in historical context, not in the age of modern homogeneous steels.
You are correct, the steel, once you have spent the large amounts of time to get a good bloom of it compares well to European steels of the same time, but in far smaller amounts than could be made in the same time in Either India, Europe or the Middle East.
Yes, your most likely modern reproduction probably won't bend side ways, but there are alot of cases of getting the heat treat incorrect, due to incorrectly evenly applied clay, so the swords had an imbalance in the structure of the steel to either side or to the rear, causing them to bend sideways or too much backwards at quench, or even later.
Yes, it has a hard and sharp edge. Not a point I am arguing, though you seem to think that is an important feature. A sword needs a balance between rigidity and flexibility along its length, otherwise it may shatter, snap, or bend. That hardness means a Katana is more prone to Shatter or snap, rather than flex like a less hard blade would do.
And the reason Iado exists is as most Martial arts exist, it fills a roll, and quickly drawing your sword is a useful skill when about to get mugged walking down the street, it's not about needing it to not cut yourself, otherwise all would have practiced it.
It's no faster than any other sword, and has the issue of having a very specific edge alignment, you bugger that up and you may as well have a butter knife, as you probably won't get through cloth. A thrusting sword, comparatively, is generally longer, so greater range (combined with being one handed normally so greater reach still), and getting three inches of steel of the body core generally stops most people (according the Tacitus and British Drill manuals at least...). Against multiple opponents, out of Armour, I'd take a Rapier any day over a Katana, or a Longsword.
And yes, I know lightsabers aren't real, but neither are the Katanas their groupies espouse, you treat it as some magical supper cutting sword that slices though 16 people with one swing and can then be used to shave with without a mark on it.
I don't dispute that what they are is a sword, that has been optimised for cutting, and they do it well, but have some major deficiencies in other areas, like all swords. It's a balance creating a sword. Make it cut well, it can't thrust as well, and may chip or snap more easily. Make it thrust well, it can't cut as well, and may bend more easily.
The main reason I did only epée for 12 years is because I hate right of way rules.
This was told to me by a friend. He took fencing at university. A pair of classmates were fighting, when the tip broke off one of the foils, leaving a very sharp point. Nobody noticed it until the tip went through the pants and into the leg of one of the fighters. Blood was drawn, but the wound was so small, it was thought to be minor, but in fact became life threatening a few hours later.
This is just my experience, the interesting thing about Epee is that Dunning Kruger effect hit me hard. After making me start out with Foil, my teacher, after some time allowed me to pick whether or not I'd like to continue foil, try Epee, or Sabre and I thought I'd take a stab (Ha) at Epee. I started off so confident, like "I CAN HIT ANYTHING?" and was able to win a few a rounds at first because my opponent was at first taken aback by how fucking fearless I was and how I just went right in there, then as I learned much better technique, Epee suddenly became hard and turned into this waiting game of looking for the perfect moment and perfect spot to strike. I still liked it better than Foil, but it wasn't long after that, that I took up Sabre and that was just a swashbucking good time.
Looking through Jill's videos as she is recuperating, saw this, your comment, and I had to stop by and just say: Color me impressed!!!!
Epee to me looks kind of like a chess match, but slightly less of one than Kendo, simply because epee is so much faster. There are the same named attacks and named known counters to the attacks as exists in chess. I guess, there may be the same with sabre, but I just feel that with the increased freedom, you can't do the same level of forward planning and reaction as exists in kendo or epee.
I recently got back into fencing after a few years and everybody seems to want to do epée only. It's a struggle to find people willing or able to do sabre which is a shame because I adore sabre, to me it's way more fun than epée, better to watch and a lot faster.
I don't agree with sentiments that one sword type is any more tactical than any other, they all have their own strategies and techniques within the confines of their respective game. That being said, sabre forces me to think far faster than epée or foil.
@@squashiejoshie200000 Kendo and epee are a fascinating comparision -- I think a lot about how the scoring is so complex and subjective in kendo. The hit has to have a certain amount of /style/ to be counted; you really couldn't use electronic scoring.
@@theKobus It is subjective . . . but collectively subjective. If you are experienced enough to follow what is happening, you do "know" when the cut was good, and when it wasn't.
It is like poetry, yes, there are rules and forms to follow in a poem, but there is no FAKING a good poem. Anyone who has the proper soul, knows when a poem is "good". And people who don't have the proper soul, it is not just that they *ought not* be judges at poetry contests, it is that they can NEVER be a judge.
"Unfencing-like conduct like... using the pommel of the sword" I, as a HEMA practitioner I take offence to that comment. ;) Pommel use is part of proper fencing-like conduct in ye olde medieval manuscripts. Wonderful video overall.
Yep, as a HEMA military sabre and smallsword practitioner, if your not using the pommel and taking the fight to a grapple, you're not having enough fun.
throw the pommel and end them rightly
In order to end one's opponent rightly....
there is nothing so disconcerting to a pirate as realizing his swash is unbuckled and his booty is showing.
Here's thing, I'm a longsword fencer.
What I enjoy about this fight and still enjoy about this fight is the energy it has. It's not static, it moves, it has its own rhythm.
It might some of the worst long sword I've seen, fantasy and historical, but it's only one small part of a very long and complex fight. It's got flash, even if it throws out style half way through.
Technically the long sword is awful and I know I'm looking at prop aluminium, but I'm entertained. Well entertained.
Could it have been better? It's not what I would have shot, put into the story. It's just not. I don't think people on a whole would like what I'd do. In fact, I'd probably have laid into the characters harder, deliberately made Graves choose a weapon that he knows Bond can't, won't handle well. Even more obviously show up the arrogance, the disrespect for his opponent. Played up the psychology of the two of them studying each other. Trying out weapons, give Bond a moment to see who Graves really is, how he studies eastern swords.
As for longsword duels, I can't honestly think of any. I think some of the work in the Lord of the Rings movie is pretty good. I think some of the stuff in the Witcher is.... more fantastical, but grounded. I think it works very well for the universe, world it takes place in.
I actually can't think of a time of a long sword duel. At least one where I recognised manuals, techniques being used.
The scene you describe is not only better than what we got, it feels more like James Bond. Compare it to the time he played golf with Goldfinger.
It’s not the final showdown, it’s Bond sizing up the bad guy while also indulging in a little showing off because that’s just who he is.
I'd like to say the 2015 Macbeth has a good one, but I feel that owes more to the powerful framing, lighting, music, and Michael Fassbender and Sean Harris giving it everything, than it does to the choreography.
I seem to remember the 1990 Hamlet had somewhat passable long sword work but it has been a *long* time since I watched it.
@@ThePa1riot Except in the modern age of flash, panache and in your face over subtle, words, looks and two blokes picking up and swinging swords....
As honest as it might be to the character, I think it's also boring. For most at least.
For a minority it would have been a lot more interesting.
@@blokey8 Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out.
"If you have a really good example of a longsword fight in media, let me know and maybe we can look at that."
There aren't a lot of great one-on-one longsword fights in film. Most of them fall into the "longswords are incredibly heavy and unwieldy" trope (e.g. the last fight in Robin Hood: Prince of Bad Accents). Probably the best one I can think of is the Aragorn/Lurtz fight from Fellowship of the Ring (and it's worth noting that Bob Anderson said Viggo Mortensen was the best swordsman he ever trained). Another OK one is the last fight from Ladyhawke.
OOOOOOHHHHH I would LOVE it if she covered Ladyhawk!!!
Aragorn and Lurtz lose the swords quickly, mind. Actually, isn't Lurtz broadsword-and-board, like most Uruk-Hai? There's obviously the beat with his shield. I suppose we could count Aragorn against the Nazgul, but that's not a duel.
Ned vs Jaime in the first season of GoT is decent, albeit ending in duelem interruptus. Macbth (2015) has a really gripping final fight but I think other factors do the real heavy lifting, and it too devolves into a brawl.
I seem to remember the brief scenes of longsword fighting the "A Knight's Tale" being reasonably accurate representations.
I wonder if the fights in RotS could be counted as longsword fights, and good ones at that (since the lightsabers obviously did not have accurate weight to what they're supposed to from the lore, and they could be (and were) wielded with one hand, and there was a lot of pointless flailing too)? 🤔
@@georgeoldsterd8994 personally I'd say the weightlessness and acrobatics take them out of that zone. Plus at several points, I feel like they get overwhelmed by "stuff happening".
I suppose for me, Last Duel-esque displays of weighty brutality are more my thing and what I think of proper longsword fights as being.
Beginner longsword student here. I actually kind of ENJOY that their longsword technique is basically all improv. As you said, the weapons are unfamiliar to them. That's the type of thing someone would do with an unfamiliar weapon.
If I had a pound for every time Toby Stephens played a villain who got into a swordfight with a hero played by a 00 agent and lost in a slightly humiliating fashion, I’d have £2. Which isn’t a lot, but a bit odd it happened twice.
(This movie and Sharpe with Sean Bean)
He’s also really excellent as Capt. Flint in Black Sails!
@@alisaurus4224 Yup - was just gonna say, he is fantastic in Black Sails.
Toby also plays 007 on the radio.
I only recognise him from this and Twelth Night (Duke Orsino).
I remember watching this when it was in cinemas back in the day.
I went with 2 fencing friends, so especially the epee scene was interesting for us.
Yeah, we had to stifle some laughs. We were definitely entertained, so ... well done movie?
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The mythbusters actually tested a katana breaking another katana , and found that a katana could in fact break another sword (they later tested it against other swords they had on hand, the katana was a real forged, folded weapon, the others were replicas likely stamped. They did bring in a expert who confirmed that thin wide blades are able to be broken by a strike to the side, blades like a saber or katana have all of the strength behind the cutting edge, and are typically not built to parry, but if you had to, you do so on the edge of the blade, not its side or spine. This type of blade is very weak against a strike to its side and would either bend or break. A long sword on the other hand, is not a thin sword, and when one was tested, it held up 100% due to the extra metal in its thickness. So the movie could have been accurate. But with that said, the mythbusters did note, that when they had the test rig set to human power levels of strike and grip, that the result was, the defending weapon was deflected or knocked out of the hand. it took superhuman grip to maintain control of the weapon. And they did get 1 bend but no breaks using that, when they made the striking rig also go to superhuman power, it was able to break a sword. They also noted that the replica swords they used, did either bend or break at normal human striking power, with super human grip, against a real forged blade, but when they stepped that up to 2 real forged blades, the result even at super human levels of 5 times max strength, was that the striking blade was 100% stopped by the defending blade, even when hit on its side. The bladesmith they had make the swords mentioned that if you got one to break, it likely had a poor heat treatment and was hit just right, he said he had seen blades break many times from getting them to hot and quenching them in water instead of oil. That makes a very brittle blade and it will break very easily. So for the sake of the movie, we should assume that the blades are replicas, it is unlikely that they would for instance hang real antiques around the club after all.
Are you saying one cannot or should not parry with the flat?
@@shinobi-no-bueno I think he’s mostly saying it would take two super-humanly strong individuals to break a sword in the way shown in this movie, or a very poorly made sword.
First off, i don't think they're saying either of those things. It's physically possible under labratory conditions with bad blades. But in the kind of scenario where one would actually be in danger of it happening, it's for all intents and purposes not going to happen.
As for parrying in general, I am reasonably certain that parrying with the edge *will* notch your blade, and ought to be avoided of possible. From a materials standpoint notching your blade could actually lead to compromising the integrity of the blade.
@@shinobi-no-bueno Depends what direction the attack is coming in. You can parry with the flat against the flat of the incoming blade to move it out of line so it won't strike you.
As for the more risky parry, you would step away if possible. Otherwise you would risk your blade as it's better than to take the hit.
The danger of parrying with the blade edge is you will damage it, too much of that and your cutting edge will be less effective.
From what I know, most katanas actually have a pretty chunky cross section, don't they? they're not particularily thin
Jill: "Let's all agree to forget that and move on"
also Jill: Names the video after it...
I tried epee for a while myself, and I had a similar experience re: breaking blades. In my case, I scored a touch on my opponent’s collarbone and the blade just gave out - metal fatigue caused it to just keep bending until it was 90 degrees. I came away with the letter L.
I'd say thats an appropriate expression in the thumbnail when referring to this MASTERPIECE of a scene🤣👏👏👏
I mean…I think it’s probably my favourite scene in the film but THERE WE ARE 😂
I also love the wrapup after the fight - when those buttlers carry out the damaged painting and broken furniture - just as a little reminder... That was a neat touch.
So, when you asked for suggestions of a longsword duel to analyze, the film Ladyhawke sprang to mind. It's from the 80's and my siblings and I watched it until the tape wore out. It's very medieval and now I'm wondering how plausible the fight scenes are. Especially the big duel in the cathedral during an eclipse. I love your snark and your insight!
The only problem with Ladyhawke is that, as much as I love the movie, the weapons and armor are largely nonsense.
@@ohauss But so is people being turned into animals, so... yeah.
I seem to recall the throwing of a greatsword like a spear in the last fight.
Oh another great two handed sword fight Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon when the girls go at it. Jade Destiny is a two hander going against st a variety of weapons. Pretty enjoyable.
Jade Destiny is a jian, generally held one handed, Jen uses it that way in that scene.
A two-handed sword is used at one point, but it's not the Jade Destiny.
Genuinely the best swordfight put to film for my money, the variety of weapons and complexity of the choreography are unmatched
I watched this movie a couple days ago. Jade Destiny is a hand-and-a-half jian for a man the size of Li Mu Bai. It looks like a two-handed sword when held by Jen because she's a short, slender girl
One point I will give them is that, while they are awkward as hell with the arming swords, at least they aren't acting like they weigh 15 pounds.
"pinged my suspension of disbelief by the bra strap" is the best thing I've heard all day. Pure gold
I’ve said before I like that fight overall ;for his energy really, as someone else said). The thing that does tear at my suspension of disbelief (katana light sabering asides) is the fact that those 2 would have killed each other 78 times before the final cut is delivered. They’re often wide open, overextended and err a pommel strike to a naked face breaks teeth…
My favorite part of the fight was after trying to kill each other threating innocent bystanders lives and doing thousands of dollars in property damage. The bad guys just laughs it all off as good sport.
I would love to see your analysis of the fights in Scott Pilgrim v. the World. the ridiculousness of the movie, would just make me lol.
Also, the best explanation of Right of Way I've heard of was from Heinlein, and boiled down to 'you have to deal with threats to your life before you try killing them', since foil was based on trying to kill each other. Epee was to first blood, so that's why anything goes :) (Glory Road by Heinlein is highly recommended, btw!) Edit to fix typo :)
I think the title you're referring to is "Glory Road."
You speak the truth. Except for the fact that it is "Glory Road"
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 Yeah, think I got typo'd, ty!
I do enjoy your videos so much. When i started Longsword fencing i became that asshole who could enjoy no fights, but your videos helped me regain a better perspective on fights in media. This fight would have curled my toes...now I get it. Thanks^^
You say that fencing is a relatively safe sport, and I would tend to agree as I was on the high school fencing team for 4 years (wasn't very good), but I will always remember an incident where a student from another school was sent to the hospital from a competition where a broken blade punctured his lung because he neglected to wear his underarm gear. I'm glad I was in another room getting changed for that one (and I'm really glad I always remembered my underarm protection).
I know absolutely nothing about fencing and protecting gear but a lung got damaged because the underarm wasn’t protected? Does the underarm gear extend to part of the chest as well, and missing that extra protective layer over the chest was crucial?
@@sweetsandcharades8383 The underarm protection is basically a thick piece of canvas-like fabric (maybe kevlar in some instances?) that fits around the shoulder, also covering the armpit, chest, and ribs. Then a jacket of similar material is worn over that, covering the rest of your upper body up to your neck and out to your wrists. But it's been 27 years since I had to wear the gear. So I might be missing some of the finer details, and advancements in technology.
@@sweetsandcharades8383 Yup. In fencing, basic form is to present your side to the opponent so that there's a smaller surface area for them to target, and it gives maximum extension for your swordarm and sword. That means that entire surface from armpit to waist is the most vulnerable, so there's an added layer of protection on that entire section of the body, in addition to everything being covered by the jacket. (Because you'll inevitably lose form eventually.)
@@Duiker36 @TheeGoatPig Interesting! Thanks for telling me!
My fencing instructor liked to say, “If done correctly fencing is one of the safest sports out there. If done incorrectly fencing is one of the most dangerous.”
But WHY does Madonna have no sleeves? Anyway. Hooray for another use for Mannequin Skywalker! Secret extended edition here: czcams.com/video/UBk-PexnhhA/video.html
Because she was 43 and had guns like that. If I'd had guns like that when I was 43, I'd want to show them off too.
Because she's so good she doesn't have to fear being ... disarmed.
Madonna doesn't have sleeves because biceps.
You cut off "ooh, right in the engineering degree" half a second too early.
"But WHY does Madonna" could be applied to her entire acting career.
This video gave some tlc to my lockdown-neglected fencer soul, thank you so much. On fencing injuries (speaking from experience): One of the fencers on my team once broke her little finger when the opponent somehow stuck her blade between her fingers and the guard of a sabre and pressed it. It also only happened once that someone hit bare skin underneath the glove through the hole for the cable. But you are very correct, fencing is a very safe sport, the gear serves its purpose well and the one thing that would be most likley to get busted are the ankles because of a misstep. Or bruised legs in general in epee.
You could break the sword if it's a deco/play type of thing, or if it's *really* bad quality, but it wouldn't be like that. It would break apart or fall as uneven pieces or anything close to that. There's no way it will be a clean cut, like the blade has been made of cheese.
Unless, of course, it's made of cheese. Or soft wood.
Also if you're trying to cut something you usually brace it up against something to get a clean cut, a sword in someone's hands is going to have some give to it making it unrealistic to cut unless there was an impurity there.
Just imagine trying to cut a baguette with a knife while someone holds the baguette like a sword.
Or a movie prop designed to break when struck. Oh wait... ;)
In a James Bond movie, excessive cheese is to be expected. Yes, even in the sword blades.
I like the concept of a sword fight where they change swords throughout. Good concept and well executed.
I only ever have trained (at least trained seriously and not only for a few hours for fun) with weapons that you generally use two handed, and I have the exact opposite problem. I get confused when using one handed weapons 😂
So, I need to say this to SOMEONE, so, congratulations, Jill, its you and the ether.
James Bond's latest movies have been epic fails. Not monetarily, but from a story telling perspective. Why? Because they try to tell a story.
James Bond is fundamentally episodic. Until the recent 2 (3,apparently, because No Time To Die comes out in October, according to the ad before this very video), and with rare exception:
- James is a 00 given a target, or in the middle of finishing off a mission
- James causes trouble, returns, and gets a new mission and a stern warning to not cause trouble again (lol)
- James pulls off the mission, gets the girl, and uses some unorthodox methods of evasion and attack
That's it. That's the story. Even when there IS an unfinished thread, like in Never Say Never Again (aka the Bond that isn't), Bond is already back to normal the next movie. The only exception to that, that I can think of, is the one he gets married in, but his wife dies. There, there's a 'James gets revenge' at the start of the next movie. But, that's literally the start of mission from the above formula!
There's no character growth, there's no big reveals, there's no 1 uping the last episode, just Bond. James Bond.
The last 3 have literally had taglines like 'Every mission has lead to this.' Like, no it hasn't! Nothing lead to that, you tjops! This is totally new, and you know it!
Anyway, that's my rant. Thanks for hearing it.
P. S. That drill scene is so infuriatingly dumb that I noticed it every single time.
I liked the first Daniel Craig Bond film, here we have this rough unsophisticated brute force agent who you point at the target and stand back. I liked the basic idea Quantum of Solace, he's hurting, he's out for revenge and he's going to murder anything that gets in his way but he's learned, he's more sophisticated. However they didn't seem to know what to do with him during the film.
I know there was one involving an abandoned island, a terrible server room, a baddy with a stupid plan and something about a tube train. I saw it in the cinema but it was too awful for words.
@Chenoa, well said
Wow. I knew there was a reason I didn't like the new ones (besides Daniel "Deadface" Craig) and you summed it up perfectly. You can grab any of the original Bond movies (even the Timothy Dalton ones) and not feel like you missed something because you didn't watch the one before it. They had a formula that worked: James got the mission, got fancy gadgets from Q ("A nose, Q, not a banana." "Oh, pay attention, 007."), defeated the bad guy and got the girl, with plenty of quips along the way ("Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mister Bond. I expect you to die."). I own the first two Daniel Craig movies and...I can't remember anything about them.
I can't stand how the Craig films have tried to make this overarching plot. You can't do "THIS TIME, IT'S PERSONAL" five straight movies in a row. Can't Bond just go on a mission again, please?
I appreciated what they were trying to do with Skyfall and Spectre, but I agree that it ended up not really working all that well. Then again, I saw them out of order and didn't really feel like I'd missed anything.
There's a rather old film called The Court Jester that has a hilarious sword fight where one of the fighters is hypnotised to be a master with a blade, but everytime someone snaps their fingers he goes back to normal
Love that film
The chalice from the palace… what a film! Do this one next!
I love your film fight breakdowns so much, it’s absolutely fascinating
And “ping my suspense of disbelief like a bra strap” is an amazing sentence
Maybe Bond's sword was hanging on the wall as a bit of decoration because it had been bent and straightened a couple of times, and so was likely to break the next time it took a solid hit. That the hit was from a katana is just a coincidence.
Yeah, an old, well used sword can just break, and the attack seemed to be a full strength blow intended to destroy the sword rather than anything else. Given it's a gentlemen's club, the foils were probably fairly old (at least Bond's one probably was).
You have legitimately changed my mind about this fight scene. When I watched it in the cinema, the whole fight just stuck me as stupid and absurd (I was possibly jaundiced by just how generally crap the entire film was) but at the time I was a lot more interested in the technique on display which completely blinded me to to the actual narrative of the fight. In retrospect it's not a fight bad scene at all because it tells a good story and builds the tension nicely. I'm just going to join you in the better reality where the moment with the Katana didn't happen...
Just went to see Shang-Chi and can tell you that at one point I was watching the fights and thinking... "Wonder what Jill would think of these?"
I just saw it on Saturday and I was thinking the same thing. The late Brad Allen fight choreography combined with him also as the second unit director...THAT is how to create and film fights! I'm going to see it again asap.
Epee is fencing for people who study western martial arts!
More to the point - no pun intended, sorry! - having studied 18th century British Army sword training manuals (from both a WMA practitioner veiwpoint and from a Bachelor's Degree in History viewpoint), Epee fencing seems to me to be the version closest to what was being taught when the goal was to a) make the other person dead, and b) not accidently step in front of the literal rank-and-file who are either shooting their muskets or using them as pikes, both of which are bad things to get in the way of. Other versions of fencing feel like they've added arbitrary rules, presumably intended to make it safer for the fencers, or make it more of an athletic challenge, or just to make it easer to see what's going on. (I've been a judge at a free-form rapier tournament. It's almost impossible to see what's actually happening when the fighters can move off-line.)
Also, I find it hilarious that "epee" has such a specific meaning in English, because in French it just means "sword."
Question for you Joll: Have you covered the final sword duel in Rob Roy? It's been a while but I think that used claymore. Though at this point most Scottish period pieces have congealed into a Highlander/Outlander/How to Train Your Dragon casserole.
The final fight in Rob Roy is basket-hilt claymore vs. rapier, and the difference in speed, power, and technique between the two is an important part of how it plays out. It's up there with the Westley/Inigo fight from Princess Bride as far as great movie sword fights.
Loved the part about how Bob uses the first phrases to establish the characters. That is like almost every Highlander fight in the tv show.
Jill Bearup: best Bond girl ever.
Lillie: “Incase your disarm you punch and kick your opponent. Throw your sword make sure you have extra one or maybe a few dagger.”
At least they wore sensible shoes ..😅🤣🤣
We love our British HEMA CZcamsrs, although many of them seem to have a chip on their shoulders regarding katanas. Having said that, it makes sense that two dragon shaped isles off the coast of their respective continents, each with a rich medieval tradition of honour bound armored swordsman would have a healthy supply of niche rivalry.
@Atropus Kargoth
For sure.
It's just that Jill Bearup and another CZcamsr called Lindeybeige have a tendency to roll their eyes pretty hard at the mention of the word "katana".
@@jacobwright5542 well, people always hated overrated things, I guess? But you're right, katana is a fine sword. It's not a magical sword, it's not the best sword in the world, it's not the best cutting sword, but it would get your job done.
Being people who absolutely love katana, saying it the best sword in the world while the rest is crap is bad. But to the opposite of spectrum where you literally enraged just by someone mentioning "katana" Is equally bad too.
Maybe people think that katana is superior sword because a lot of it were displayed in the museum with excellent quality, whereas other sword were displayed in the museum as a lump of rusting metal. Survivorship bias played a role here I guess.
@@muhamadsayyidabidin3906
I think there's something to your idea about the preservation of the swords factoring into their reputation. Of course there are revered swords in the European tradition, but the samurai in particular had a very personal relationship with their individual katanas that, as far as I know, was unique among ancient warriors and perhaps has led to an unusual level of preservation compared to other ancient weapons. So yeah, good call.
@@jacobwright5542 I don't think it's unique to samurai tradition only, because in my country similar tradition is also exist. People in Asia generally believe that sword contain it's own "souls", and to stop this souls from wreaking havoc you must regularly and delicately maintained it in a particular time, in particular fashion, and in particular manner.
But yes, it certainly played a role. Inferior sword might be resold, or reforged for different item. Some might be buried with it's owner, rusting into nothing or if it survive into present day, it would not be the same sword as it's used to. Beautiful sword of European, African or Asian origin is abundant, but the battlefield broken, heavily corroded one is also plentiful. Whereas in Japanese blade chase, only sword from Meiji restoration era up to ww2 is the one with bad, battlefield condition. Blade prior to that have always been in pristine conditions. Maybe Japanese people reused a lot of it's metal, making the one survive today is only the blade that become a family heirloom.
I haven’t really seen that. HEMA CZcamsrs take offence when Weebs claim that Katana’s are more advanced, sophisticated, that they can cut anything and that European swords are blunt, crude instruments more like clubs then anything else. This idea largely comes from anime, video games and fetishisation of the east.
Also wtf are you talking about with dragon-shaped islands??? Europe is not an island! Did you think that Historical European Martial Arts were all about Britain?!
Just found your videos. Gotta say that so far I am loving them. I have been studying various sword arts for many years now and the thing that usually bothers me about other commentators is that usually they just laugh and say that’s ridiculous and not realistic and make the same complaints over and over again. I like that you break things down from a story telling perspective and show how sword fights give us a better look at the characters and their motivations etc. I think most of us realize Hollywood “duels” are always going to be somewhat far fetched and overly flashy but the little nuances to each move and choice can build upon character development.
Hey Jill! I love your work! I was wondering if you would ever consider doing a stage combat 101 series here or on Nebula? It would be really cool to learn from you!
I know it's martial arts, not swordplay, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on Shang Chi! There's tons of combat to analyze and every fight is full of character.
I would too
But... swordsplay *are* martial arts.
@@Wavemaninawe
you know what they meant
I would LOVE to see your analysis of some anime (or just animated in general) fight scenes. your respect for story/coolness-over-realism and suspension of disbelief are always a delight
Die Another Day was actually the first Bond film I saw (for the simple reason that it was the only one I could find in the charity shop I was in) and it was pretty good from my point of view. Although I admit it certainly isn’t the best now I’ve seen others, but it just have been good enough to get me interested in the series!
When I took fencing, our instructor (who had been on Australia's Olympic fencing team back in the day) mentioned during a casual conversation, when one of the other students made a statement that assumed a heavy long sword would easily beat a foil, that if you follow the evolution of the swords, it moved from long sword to epee to foil. His contention was that the weapons evolved in that direction and that, correspondingly, each step was an improvement. Thus, foil would beat long sword.
So, when watching this sequence of events when the movie first came out, I was immediately struck by the fact that their weapons of choice devolved as they went, much as their fighting style did. I think that this, too, said a lot about the characters, and it foreshadowed how their battle against each other would spin out of control during the course of the movie.
Eh, context is key (as Matt Easton would say). Longswords were medieval battle weapons designed on the assumption that your opponent was in AT LEAST chain armor, if not full plate. Thus, it had to be heavy enough to not be casually pushed aside when parrying against a variety of other weapons, and generalist enough that you could use it against multiple types of opponents - but that you would likely have to hand-and-a-half it (like a quarterstaff) to get its point (and enough momentum) to shove it into a slightly-less armored area of another knight. peasant
Rapiers were a bit thinner but could still be taken out on the (Rennaissance-era) battlefield, where they would have to content against pikes and bayonetted muskets, and whose armor would likely be something like a plate cuirass and some sort of helmet.
In contrast, the smallsword was specifically designed as a thrusting weapon to be used against (mainly) unarmored duelists - aside from heavy cloaks and wool jackets and whatnot, of course.
So, in the context of an 18th century duel? Yeah, the smallsword would probably be better, because it was designed for that context. But put both of your duelists in full harness, and the context changes significantly.
You also need to consider the other weapons developed at the same time. Firearms made most heavy armor obsolete. If heavy armor is not used, why carry a weapon made combat such armor.
Context is certainly key and a good thrust from a rapier will end a fight as surely will a good slash from a longsword, provided both combatants are not armored. The rapier is faster as well. That started, while I believe a rapier could parry a longsword I doubt it could block a longsword very well. Also a glancing blow or a light cut from a rapier is far less likely to cripple an opponent whereas with a longsword such a blow may be disabling. Condensed version, rapier is quicker and can be used in a more confined environment, but has to strike more precisely to put down an opponent and is probably less effective on the defense from a longsword. Longsword, comparatively, is slower and needs a bigger area, but it can more effectively counter the rapier and any hit it lands is more likely to do damage.
A variation of the myth is the Katana’s cutting through a machine gun barrel. While this is utter tripe, there were some machine guns that were water cooled. Part of the design was a sheet metal jacket that surrounded the actual gun barrel that contained water for cooling during sustained firing. I suspect it is quite possible that this could happen and the repeating of the story may have been short on fine details. So yeah, cutting through a machine gun barrel, but with an asterisk.
Mythbusters tried this. There is no way Katana can cut new machine gun barrel. If gun is overheated and cooled in emenergy situations with water several times.. then maybe. Barrel gets brittle after several fast heating and cooling cycles. Then there is no difference if you break barrel vith club or Katana. Same result.
I never thought I'd enjoy the content of an actor combatant that much, but here I am :)
*Big fan of your channel & your commentary
"I may or may not be certifiable." Said while wearing straight jacket.
There is a very similar sword fight in Moonraker, where Bond uses a glass handled sword against a evil kendo goon.
I had until this moment forgotten that movie was a thing.
@@JillBearup it is very interesting to have this 'pointed' out. The plot of DIE ANOTHER DAY was loosely based on the novel Moonraker (which the movie Moonraker had little if nothing to do with)
I've only had about a year of longsword training and haven't ever done any actual sparring, but here's my take: longsword exchanges always start with tons of power and momentum, which means "parrying" like Bond's doing isn't a thing. If you want to actually stop the other guy's swing, you need to be swinging with your own full force into it or they're just going to knock your blade aside and cut you anyway. So you're always trying to swing for a killing blow that you're hoping will counter the other guy's killing blow. Once swords have made contact and you're in close, it's all winding your sword around the opponent's sword to get it into a position where you can slice or stab the other guy, hand/footwork to throw them to the ground, or finding a way to disengage so you can start back at maximum range again. If you just pull your sword back to swing again (which these guys keep doing), you won't be able to get the momentum to actually do anything and, more importantly, your opponent is just going to cut you since they might still have momentum or are at least still pushing on your blade to try to wind/slice/etc. The longsword is *long* so once you're up close you're missing out on what makes your sword awesome.
But of course, it's a movie. Real longsword exchanges end in grievous injury unless you're in tons of padding. They take like 10 seconds or less, which isn't exciting in a movie. Prop swords will not stand up to full force swinging (I'm remembering how Giancarlo Esposito kept breaking his prop swords for *one fight* on Mandalorian 'cause he was going ham). How to make a good looking swordfight is a different and not necessarily easier skill than how dudes killed each other centuries ago. So unless you were doing something like a kung-fu movie where the protagonist mows down a bunch of dudes one-by-one, there's no point in doing an "authentic" longsword fight for a movie.
Edit: I did a quick search and found this video, which looks like a nice middle ground between authentic longsword fighting and cinematic fighting. Lots of nice, messy binds that make you go "ok, I'm just gonna shove you out of the way and we can try this again" to make the scene long enough to be entertaining. Also note how they're not pulling their arms back to swing again, they're either swooping around to another angle or stepping all the way back so they can try another forceful swing. And yes, moving one hand off the hilt to grab onto the lower part of the blade is totally a thing; you're essentially making your sword shorter so that you can do more in close quarters, and that part isn't as sharp anyway. czcams.com/video/Cn36Pb8z3yI/video.html
That's a pity about the props, because I'd like of like to see that kind of brutal exchange. There's a fight from A Dance With Dragons I like because it emphasises that plate armour is actually pretty damn good at fending off blades.
Would you say, then, that longswords are best for a battle scene rather than a duel? I'm thinking of LotR and GoT's best, where you can, as you mentioned, showcase that one-blow brutality.
So I watched it, and what bothers me is how often both of them fall and then somehow manage to get back on their feet without the other stabing them while they're down.
lol this scene has been living rent-free inside my head since I first saw it as a kid. Mostly in a good way, but it was still good fun watching you pick it apart and analyze it.
0:35 "with NO SLEEVES" had me rolling
Lillie: “My sword mentors Misturu, Ezra, and Weiss even Ryuko had worn more bizarre clothing option, No sleeve corset isn’t strange.”
Can we get your thoughts on the sucide squad?
I instantly thought of you when Harly did the combat boot + dress combo
The fight at the end of the 50s classic Knights of the Round Table is very good and worth discussing.
So in my college fencing class, the swords had rubber tips over the flat sword tip. Since they were older, the rubber had a tendency to fly off. When that happened, you were supposed to stop and retrieve it BEFORE continuing.
Getting stabbed by a bare blade, even though it was flat and dull, could definitely cause injuries, even through the padding. I got stabbed on my inner elbow (fencing arm) and the force and friction caused a massive bruise and a nasty cut/torn skin. It was like the mother of all rug burns.
The other injury was, if I'm remembering right, in the space between shoulder and rib cage. Not as bad, but there was still broken skin.
Also, it's hard to hear with the helmets on, and they mess with close range depth perception, so my friend and i REPEATEDLY head-butted each other while talking. It was hilarious every time.
Takeaway: use proper safety precautions, and always remember that the front of your helmet is farther away that it appears.
I loved that class, but it's been years and i don't remember terminology that well. Hopefully i didn't make any egregious mistakes 😅
I'm currently wearing a shirt that says:
Epeeists take simple rules and see how far they can stretch them
Foilists take complex rules and see how far they can justify them
Sabreurs say: "There are rules?"
Such a wonderful breakdown of this scene. I would love to hear her thoughts on the the final sword fight in Rob Roy. Fencer verses Scottish Swordsman, yes please.
I always enjoy your channel. Thanks for sharing!
You'll pry my magic katana from my cold dead hands!
I'd recommend the Longsword Duel from Andorea Olomouc.
It's a standalone fightscene, but it really perfectly balances fast-paced choreographed moves with real Longsword techniques.
Also: please review the second duel from The Duelist (1977). I know you would do a brilliant job analysing the drama in addition to the actual moves!
I perused the channel quickly, and was surprised no Duellists, no Rob Roy....
*Lillie holds a katana and slice her opponent blade*
Lillie: “What can I say? I workout a lot.”
*She show off her skills and flexes her muscles too*
Lillie: “Practice makes perfect now.”
Recently found your channel. Loving your honest opinion of things.
I adore these videos. Thank you so much.
"Sabre looks slashy and impressive" - not when it's done competitively... within a fraction of a second the two fencers advance at each other, hit each other at the same time, and then both celebrate as if they got the point, then wait to see who actually got the point because somehow the judge has to decide which fencer moved their arm a fraction of a second before the other. :D
There were two memes in our fencing club; One was that saber fencers are basically barbarians (rush your opponent and yell when you hit), and the other was that referees sometimes seem to give the point to the one who celebrates the hardest after each hit, presumably because they're scared to call a simultaneous hit (no video replay at low level competitions) because it makes them look like they weren't paying enough attention or don't know the right of way rules well enough.
As for the arm, it often comes down to how someone moves. I always told newbies at the club I was in to extend their arm and then lunge (obviously in one smooth movement), because if their arm lags behind a bit too much, even if they extended earlier than their opponent, it may look like you they it back to the referee, and they'd loose the right of way. I've seen many people lose points that way.
This is more an issue with electric. In dry, you have to be clean or no one can call a score.
Does Highlander count for longsword fighting?
Well considering one of the combatants is using a katana, and said actor is half blind and they needed to choreograph around that, I’d say no.
i always get a chuckle watching your videos.
I love Jill's very apt comments about the fencing, as well as the excellent points about the difficulties of using an unfamiliar weapon. Her comments about the grappling and pommel strikes being un-fencerly reminded me of George Silver's complaint c. 1599 that the fine old English techniques of grappling, gripping, and the "boot to the codde" were no longer practiced by young gentlemen adopting the new Italian style of fencing with the rapier.However, as someone who uses swords professionally in a museum setting, and who has been practicing swordplay since the late 70's, I feel her assumption that a katana could not break a sword blade as shown may be a little off base. I have had a sword sheared in half by a cheap replica longsword that was certainly not as strongly built as a katana. It's simply the physics of what can happen when two thin edges collide at speed at a particular angle.
Hi, nice analysis as always, keep up the good work! The injury on the wrist is indeed very plausible. When I fenced it actually happened to me. My opponent was moving his wrist towards me when I thrusted forward with my weapon (an epee) at full force. His glove was a bit worn-out and the weapon wrenched off the wrist-cover and scratched his wrist. It was not bloody or serious in any way, as the glove had absorbed most of the impact, but it was very painful and he had to stop for a few minutes. It is very difficult to do it on purpose though, as the wrist usually moves around a lot and has the opponent's full attention (unlike, let's say, a knee, or a foot). In my case I was aiming for the chest and his wrist was just caught. About the sabre-disarming maneuvre: can you actually do it? I mean, as someone who held a weapon like that in the past, I find it very difficult to disarm your opponent in this manner. I know it looks cool, but it is realistic or even doable? Can't you just block the circular motion by turning your wrist and blocking the opponent's blade-motion with the hilt?
Disarming him that way might work if he'd switched from a sabre grip to Hammer grip on the parry, as then you can over rotate the wrist to the outside, but otherwise yeah, you just keep circling the blade.
And I've also cut someone with a foil blade while they were wearing a plastron and jacket, so I also find it plausible.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 Thank you. As I thought, you need some kind of action from the opponent at that exact moment in order for them to drop their weapon.
Not magical, no. In fact, they used to be made with mediocre steel due to the amount of impurities left in the iron after their smelting process. Rather than "adding strength," the folding process served to homogenize the impurities uniformly through the steel so there wouldn't be a concentration that would create a weak point. Like all things, though, the quality varied greatly and it wasn't terribly uncommon for them to break.
All that said, they do, however feel really nice to wield.
I feel like resources should have been part of geography. Got the vague impression Japan drew the short stick on those
The folding process does "add strength". Homogenized steel is stronger, no? Saying that it adds strength is simple and concise, and plenty enough information for most instances.
Maybe they thought it was a *Cut*ana? Okay, I'll stop with the sharp puns.
"And who doesn't like to waffle on about swords?" My point exactly!
Regarding interesting longsword fights: could you take a look at the final duel in Richard Lester‘s „Robin and Marion“? (starring another Bond, Sean Connery.) Lester did the „Musketeer“ movies before, so he knows his stuff. We think of Robin Hood as an elegant fencer, but this „realistic“ version (choreographed by another legend, Willian Hobbs) puts an old Robin and the old Sheriff of Nottingham in heavy armor and unwieldy swords, much more of a battle of attrition, lots of jostling and panting and stumbling… what do you think?
Indeed, my old fencing instructor did the fight choreography for 'Robin & Marion'.
Japanese swordsmithing: How to turn low quality raw materials into something that's absolutely excellent for cutting down unarmoured peasant soldiers.
(Make no mistake, I have all the respect in the world for the skill and craftsmanship that goes into it. But as soon as you have the technology to make good steel, there's no longer a need for it.)
Assuming it's in the hands of a warrior who is more capable than the likely spear wielding peasants, cause if you die before you reach the enemy it doesn't matter how good your sword is
@@andrewgreeb916 The samurai's answer to spear wielding peasants was a bow (later a gun) and a spear or glaive of their own. And of course, they were trained in martial arts since childhood, just like European knights
@@taylor_green_9 well, this trope about "trained from childhood" really must to die. Also samurai was peasants, lol. Just a rich ones. After we admit this fact, problem of "how noble samurai protect his honor against unwashed peasants with spears" is stop exist.
We have rich peasant - samurai, who have his servants - not so rich peasants (but rich enough to have weapons).
That it. Other peasants have meat on their table once per year in a good year. And one hoe on entire vilage. No zerg of unwashed peasants = no stubid hipotesis.
Gun costs LOT of money. If you buy it to shoot at half dead from starving, unarmored, unarmed peoples with zero reasons to fight you - something really wrong with you.
@@adriaan4808 well, it seems that Moskow Tsardom often fights not on real battlefield then.
@@adriaan4808 No, the sword or a similar hand weapon was your primary weapon. Bows run out of ammo, and a spear is useless once you throw it or use it against a horse. You may START the battle with those weapons, but your sword, mace or axe was your primary weapon for the battle. Make no mistake, any soldier outfitted with only a bow or only a spear was considered entirely expendable cannon fodder, at best.
I actually LOVE this movie, and this fight is a highlight!
Happy to see a person who knows stuff about fighting appreciating it.
worst "injury" i inflicted on anyone fencing was one time when my foil tip got caught on my friends jacket sleeve while i made a thrust, and the foil whipped up his chest after being bent back almost to the guard. thank you for reminding me of this memory, and that i really really need to apologize to my friend...again