History of WWI Primer 137: Russian Berdan II Documentary
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2021
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
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German Military Rifles:
From the Werder Rifle to the M/71.84
Dr. Dieter Storz
Allied Rifle Contracts in America
Luke Mercaldo
Serbian Army Weapons of Victory 1914-1918 Vol 1
Branislav V. Stankovic & John P. Sheehan
3 - л н ВИНТОВКА МОСИНА
Р. Н. Чумак
Sharpshooter
Wiley Sword
Guns for the Tsar
Joseph Bradley
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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"We are going *waaayyy* back..."
**Excitement intensifies**
and I don't have to speak Russian to understand it
Ah, so THIS is a Berdan primer!
Bravo sir
It is far to early in the morning to read something this good
I hate and love this sentence unfathomably
My friend, I came here specifically to say this. I am delighted and horrified to find someone else has the same mind as myself. Bravo sir! I wish you luck in all of your endeavors and hope you find the best psychiatric care available!
My guy, mad respect.
we really do need a bayonet show. Just call it Pokey Bits.
I would love to learn about the M1903 flame bayonet
@@joeowensby3997 thanks for that google tangent
I used to have a job that included helping a man bath.
He had a chest problem he picked up in a Japanese POW camp.
He was covered in scars from bayonet wounds.
He said he was one of the lucky ones.
I couldn't speak, in case I cried.
Men didn't cry in public in the 70s.
You briefly mentioned the Russian preference for close combat, and it is worth noting that this preference was long lived and did indeed outlive the Russian Empire itself. Soviet tactical doctrines outlined in the regulations and manuals dictate this clearly, the close combat manual listing three important points on the first page "Move swiftly and stealthily! Throw your grenade far and accurately! Strike with your bayonet and stock surely!" This preference to close combat is once again outlined even more clearly in the infantry combat regulations "at 40 to 50 meters distance from the enemy the squad breaks into determined Battle cry and storms the enemy position and destroys the enemy with hand grenades, with fire at point blank range, and with the bayonet and rifle butts. the light machine gun attacks together with the squad and fires on the move." An interesting side-note I suppose
The Russians have always had a thing for machine guns. Even before machine guns were machine guns, the Russians were all about it.
@@lilmookie6688 Russian machine gunners in the Imperial Army were some of the best educated and trained men in the whole army
@@thomastheawesome4822 makes sense as they were given to command the most complicated war machines made up until that point.
@@lilmookie6688 I assume you've seen othias's video on the Russian maxim?
It should be noted that the Russians are note the only ones to keep these kind of doctrines in place. What you described is more or less found in pretty much every single infantry manual of the time under "assault". It just tends to be worded a bit differently and without the battle cry
Even modern Finnish infantryman's manuals have a somewhat similar passage. This sort of a tactic is still used when ambushed by an enemy or when surrounded. These modern manuals also promote the utilisation of any means necessary to destroy the enemy in close combat at the end of this kind of an assault. The methods mentioned include: knives, bayonets, billhooks, axes and spades. A fighter must also be prepared to destroy his enemy with his bare hands if need be.
can't believe the Berdan was so good they decided to make a Berdan II
26:20 What manner of methamphetamine did they give to the man who managed to fire 28 rounds in a minute with a single shot bolt action?
clean, smooth gun, practice, and ammo laid very close to hand? doable. it's a but over 2s per round, which I think is about the limits of the cyle time on a bolt action bole. have to do more research to check.
56:56 New Fact: Imperial Army of Korean Empire also used the seven thousands Berdan Type 2 rifle since they allied with the Russian Empire in 1897. They used it very well until 1902 that they are going to used the Arisaka Type 30 rifle.
@Mek142 40 years later:
Japan: Chilling in Port Arther and Manchuria
Russia: Knock X2
It’s the Russian with a flood of tanks
with a flood of army
T34 & Human waves
@Mek142 But Imperial Russia had bigger guns waiting for them at Port Arthur...
@@user-kt8yp5ho2y With american gas and rations... 😉
Russia going bonkers trying to modernize their military arms to the point of adopting 5 rifles over three years and jumping through hoops to get a metallic cartridge industry going, only to have France shortly afterwards go "hey world, guess what?"
They were still metallic cartridges and rifled barrels, and sliding bolt still won in the end. Nothing wasted.
Am I the only one who saw Berdan II and though, "How did I miss an episode?!"
A friend of mine who is an Aussie Greek Cypriot has a photo of his great grandfather with a Russian Berdan rifle. He asked me a long while back to identify the rifle he was carrying which took a while but I was amazed that he had a Russian Berdan rifle. I assumed that the rifle was captured by the Turks during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78 & then captured in the Greco-Turkish War of 1897.
Excellent video which clears up a lot of information for me.
In the clearing stands a Berdan
And a fighter by his trade
And he carries the reminders
Of every Slav that laid him down
Or cut him till he cried out
In his anger and his shame
"I am leaving, I am leaving"
But the fighter still remains.
лай лалай, лай лала ла ла лалай,
лай лалай, лай лалай ла ла ла ла
лалалалай лай.
Ah, a song by Simonv and Garfunkski. :)
Comment for the algorithm gods. This channel deserves it.
for the algos, and FYT
Commenta for the comment god Skulls forbthe skull throne
For the greater good.
love to comment on the internet with my friends
Yes! for algorithm's... Semper Fidelis
“Took a lot of time to construct through various tangents that manage to hit just around the topic”
You’ve managed to accidentally describe the mathematical concept behind calculus. Bravo
More like ... the process of writing a dissertation in History.
I feel like Bruno's animations don't often get the attention they deserve but the ammo in this animation looks stellar! Good job man!
In this episode, Othais and Mae completely forget the Gras exists.
I remember being in Junior Year two years ago now and watching this episode at lunch, enthralled in the history, mystified by the sound blast of the shot, and I still feel like it was yesterday.
also fascinating to learn that The Berdan Rifle, Berdan Primer, and Berdan Sharpshooters were all named for the same man.
Well as I do suspect that people would love some historical context, Berdan II is often associated with the Finnish Guards Rifle Battalion (or just Suomen Kaarti, Finnish Guard).
Of course, its official designation during Russo-Turkish War would had been Henkikaartin 3. Suomen Tarkk'ampuja Pataljoona (in Russian: Лейб-гвардии 3-й стрелковый Финский батальон, Leib-gvardii 3-j strelkovyi Finski batalon) and in English it would be roughly: Guards 3rd Marksman Battalion.
If name doesn't give away, Finns were considered to be natural shooters. Hardy folk that could shoot smallest bird from mid-flight from ridiculous distances away.
As it was actually the only official Finnish army unit in Imperial army, it got very famous in Russo-Turkish war and not just in home but also abroad. First time a Finnish army unit (not Swedish or Russian unit with Finns in it) took part in actual war with common language being finnish. Some war correspondents even claimed (and it was probaply bit exaggerated) that Finns were immune to winter, Turkish officers lived in fear of them would rather surrender then fight them and Russians will always win if they heard that "Finski" were with them.
So what did Finnish Guard do during the Russo-Turkish War? In short, not actually much. It never did took part in famous Battle of Plevna (or siege) but it is remembered for its part in capture of fortress in Gornyi Dubnjakin which lead to fall of Plevna. And from there it marched all the way to Constantinople all the while carrying Berdan rifles.
Always wanted to see a Berdan in action.
It looks like a Mosin, but with fewer bullets (not that that increases the rate of fire much).
Babe wake up C&Rsenal just uploaded.
I love being a patron so that I can see the hard work that goes into each episode slightly earlier. Also comment for the YT overlords.
So long story short, the Berdans were worth more than gold.
And the Russians were low on gold.
Few people have saved their life with a gold weapon. I suppose you could make bullets out of it.
War of attrition does that to weapons
@@julianshepherd2038 As the Japanese proverb goes "Gold is more powerful than steel, for steel obeys gold."
At least Ian will be baffled by the Othiaska...
Especially as at 29:04 - Othais has just invented the triggergarden
But would it be issued by the Elbonians?
Because of last podcast I am required by law to say this before every comment. "nOw, Im A PaTrOn" and I enjoy your show
Just signed up with subscribestar. I've been watching religiously since the first French rifle video when I was an undergrad baby and always wanted to support you guys. Take my dirty dirty pizza delivery money you magnificent bastard.
Thank you for staying with us.
Who eats dirty dirty pizza?
@@Candrsenal Please enable Persian subtitles for all your work.
@@Candrsenal Please enable Persian subtitles for all your work.
You know that meme of the guy with the cork board filled with papers, pins, and yarn going everywhere? 2:20
Just for the record, that's Charlie from "it's always sunny in Philadelphia" lol
This episode came at the perfect time. I recently got an early berdan II without the volley sights. It was a bring back from Afghanistan and lets just say the bolt has seen better days. I haven't been able to find any info about it at all so this episode is a literal life saver in helping me get it firing again.
I always liked single shots and double barrels, they have a kind of charm, specially double barrel shotguns, I love em all
Honestly, they are the purest form of what a gun should and can be. A rugged, simple, and beautiful piece of art
@@colonialf7047 i gotta agree, i feel that the simpler the better
I love that chonk noise you get on close of a double B. Idk why it just sounds so good.
For me it’s the pacing and meaning of each round. With a semi-auto and several rounds each one doesn’t seem to mean much since you can just put a lot of bullets down range. Which is fun, but with a single shot you generally want to make each one really count.
@@fatmandoobius It really is
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE. BLESS YOU OTHIAS! HAIL THE MIGHTY BEARD!!!
All Hail!
Amazing history to go along with an elegant old rifle....
Huzzah! Been waiting for this one since the siege of Plevna!
Honestly, this is one of those guns I had no flipping idea was a thing. Love these tid bits of knowledge!
General Alexander Suvorov was a brilliant strategist and tactician who never lost a single battle beating the French, Austrians, Prussians, Turks in every encounter... his phrase respecting bayonets is frequently misused and misunderstood, at the time when opposing troops were often engaged in lengthy and fruitless gunfire exchanges from the distance he promoted bayonet charges but never as frontal attacks at the entrenched and prepared enemy, his idea and practice were to attack the enemy troops at night, or on a march, preferably in bad weather catching them off guard and overrunning them with intense and concerted effort of his highly trained shock troops, yes, relying on close-quarters combat, most opponents feared and were ill prepared for. His track record proved him right. His another better known phrase was: "win by skills not numbers!"
Plus, imagine you're a small unit patrolling the fringes of the empire; you can't rely on regular resupply, you're vulnerable to ambush by bandits, local independence movement, or some hybrid of the two; you have a single shot rifle - damn right you want the bayonet at the ready.
People forget that the weapons didn't only serve in conventional clashes between state armies.
I suspect the man himself would not have continued to use failing tactics. But institutional momentum...
So, so, SO glad I bought one the other day.
I love you guys.
Whoa. Nice karma.
It's not a C&Rsenal episode without the siege of Plevna
I was skeptical of your comments regarding Berdan in the Q&A, thinking it was probably recency bias. Fifteen minutes, I was wrong.
It's always fascinating how quickly we went from muzzleloaders that had been used for centuries, to cased ammunition, breach loaders to bolt actions, and finally to semi- and full auto firearms.
The sheer technological jump starting in the 1870s to 1900s; from sail and coal to dreadnaughts, horse and carriage to cars, airships and planes, etc
When I was a kid nobody had computers at home and people had to argue about who would answer the one phone. I agree that period would have been incredible, but the one we're going through is no less rapid in technology growth!
"The Lee Enfield opens it's self" hahaha yeah that's a good one.
What you said at the start about the lack or books on this subject....it's very surprising because of how long this rifle was used. Thanks again for doing what you do.
At the beginning it wasn't really the main weapon of the troops, after it was already in the shadow of mosinka very soon
It has finally arrived!!!
Well, at this point in the series, it may be that carrying Mae into battle may be the best bet. She has more experience with more different arms that she would be an asset in any unit.
Thank you for your efforts on our behalf.
After watching this I feel like i would love a brief biographical series about some of the people mentioned over the course of Primer.
Like a little half an hour episode from time to time like the Colt and trap series, featuring breif chats about some of the most vibrant characters we have covered.
This channel continues to be excellent. Thanks Othais and Mae!
I think the story came together very well considering the lack of clear documented information or a book on the rifle. Good work!
Wait wait wait what, Othais pronounced Suomussalmi correctly.
How? Is he broken? Thats not supposed to happen.
Your regular Othais was secretly replaced with new Folgers Decaffeinated Othais doppelganger, let's see if anyone notices!
In Finland in 1939!? How did that work out?
He's levelling up. In a few episodes' time, he'll have added German and French pronunciations to his repertoire.
The good folks at Varusteleka used The Force to tell him exactly how to pronounce it correctly right as he was about to say it.
Cheers Othias & Mae
Thank you for telling us the origin of the Russian idiom "The bullet is a fool."
It's not just "a fool", a more direct translation would be "a stupid girl", so there is also a meaning that bullets are girly and thus unsuitable for combat.
@@mikhailryzhov9419 Very interesting.
Berdan 2: Russian Boogaloo
This made me laugh more than it should have. Thank you
Thats awesome
Awesome
Berdan and dinner!
Engagement comment: Berdan's gold-extractor used a furnace and a 7-foot wide iron crucible which both moved, the crucible was full of hot mercury [Express (London) 26/10/1853]. That thing must have been the bad news bears from a health and safety point of view.
Three minutes in, I'm saying "I love you Othias!" Uncontrollably repeatingly, over and over again. Thanks for your dedication 😊
Sounds like the real answer for best single shot is the original Italian Vetterli 1870 TS. The bolt handle comes down near the trigger, strong enough for smokeless(ish) cartridge, AND short rifle length.
Double down in that it goes Vitali 1887 magazine with charger loading!
The vetterli is a pretty decent rifle overall for it's time I think it gets a bit to much hate for the later conversations to 6.5 carcano which were a very bad idea
Sufferin' through the ads for some sweet sweet C&Rsensal content.
Totally worth it.
Use Brave Browser and no more adds ever again.
@@b.griffin317 No ads= No ad money to buy Othias some ramen
thank you kind peeps
“Forget the fools, fix the fine lads and charge!”
Nice touch with Mae before the intro
Thanks for the video. Even me, Ukrainian born in 1990, remembers the word "berdanka" from my childhood. It meant "very old rifle", of any kind. Cultural significance of this thing was huge.
>Looks at wall of guns.
>Sees all the shotguns stacked in front of it.
Спасибо за рассказ о этой замечательной винтовке! Надо только добавить что много списанных из армии винтовок Бердана №2 было переделано в охотничьи ружья 32 калибра. ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Фроловка_(ружьё)
BSA production costs 63 Shillings is £3 3s, at 20 shillings to the £. Average wage of the factory worker, around 15s (3/4 of a £ ) per week.
For comparison if a worker made 15$ an hour today this would cost 2520 dollars.
@@fasdaVT I wonder ,just how long did it take to produce the rifle?
@@51WCDodge we have to put this as a question for some future Q&A
@@fasdaVT Good idea.
Just like to say I'd be super keen for a spin-off series showing how some of the ammo you use is made. I hope that's something you do end up doing.
In the Mannerheim museum there is a 2 Berdan rifles from his time in the Russian Imperial army. He was a General in the Imperial Cavalry and very good friend with the Tsar.
Excuse me, what.
I LIVE in Plymouth, Michigan and I didn't know this. Thats awesome!
wow what fabulous video, THANK you C&R!
Thanks for the extra research and work you had to put in for this episode. The brief history lesson of post Crimean War Russian military conclusions was *chef's kiss*
I’ve actually been waiting a long time for this one. Harambae ❤️
Berdan II, coming to a battlefield near you.
In 2021 I hope not.
Another great episode. The Berdan II seems like a good rifle for it's time, really. This episode looked great too, the colour balance seemed really good. Might just be me.
Thank you for the dedication to research Othais.
Yeah, on hellava episode.
Yes! I've been waiting for this since the first time it was mentioned
Yay!! Primer!!!
We need to petition Keltec to name a gun after Othias.
Knowing Keltec it should be a helical magazine fed .30 carbine or 45-govt polymer framed roller delayed pistol.
With a volley sight
I would buy an Othias in 5.7 spitfire.
Where do I sign the petition?
It's not necessarily a gun I would want to own - and definitely not what I would want on the Eastern Front - but damn Berdans are pretty.
Ayep.
Bring forth the black powder single shot episodes. My body is ready.
Hey Othais! I have a Krnka at home albeit not in the most excellent of conditions but Bulgarian museums are full of them anyway. What I do have which is not so common are some actual Krnka cartridges. I can take some pictures for you if you even do a Krnka episode (which would be absolutely amazing because it's the first rifle of modern Bulgaria and we also did use them as reserve rifles in WWI)
Sure, you can always send us these things to CandRsenal@gmail.com
I’ve been waiting for this for so long! I can’t wait to watch!
Ohhhhh good timing! I just bought an Ethiopian Berdan, excited to see what arrives, and this video helps contextualize it.
I am very thankful for you guys. You've been a really big part of my life for the past few years and I hope that you all are doing well. I really appreciate everything that you guys do
Great episode, thanks! I really appreciate how you tied all the threads together on this.
always exited when i see a new episode up.
This video is exactly what I needed today. Thanks!
I bought a Berdan II about 6 months ago, and have been slowly obtaining the knowledge and tools to reload for it. Excited to see a full length video on one!
Thanks for another nugget of firearms history goodness.
I have nothing smart to say, great episode. Commenting for engagement.
Perhaps I missed it in the video, but in case anyone else has and is wondering what a Russian unit of measure "arshin" is, it is 28 inches, compared to US yard which is 36 inches. It is derived from an old Tukish unit "arşın", derived from a length of a step, I believe. People may have been shorter then, so a step was a little shorter.
Othias, you legend, I've been trying to find information on the Carle Rifle, as I have a huge interest in Needle-fire rifles. It's been quite difficult to find anything in English on their rifles pre-mosin.
Hi, спасибо for another great episode!
Just upgraded my subscription tier! I’ve watched you guys from the very beginning but didn’t become a patron till summer 2019 after realizing how much your videos increased my collecting knowledge and helped me get through my deployment. After listening to the latest unloaded and watching this episode’s end credits, I couldn’t help but increase my support. Thanks guys!
Kel-Tec should go ahead and work with you guys on a developing a gun of some sort so you can get immortalized.
Lucky for me, I caught the upload right before I went to bed.
Commenting to help the show grow
This is going to long Walked to get here, Well done Othas
the holes in the stocks were used to put swivels by the Austrians when they were captured
Well done with the research. You all do a great job weaving a story that is engaging from material that is both scarce and dry. Seriously impressive.
Excellent research on this particular rifle Othias, thanks a lot for this.
I loved seeing the slo-mo extraction. Very substantial and satisfying. Well done!
Another excellent, informative video.
Thanks for sharing!
Might be the first time I've heard "microbiome" on YT. Definitely the first time I've heard it used as a metaphor. Nice!
Man, now that actually looks like a crazy fun old smokepole! Excellent, crazy history, too. Great presentation, thanks!
Thank you so much for the hard work y’all put in.