DO WE NEED BLOODY CATCH CANS? The facts you need to understand BEFORE YOU MAKE A DECISION
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Toyota Land Cruiser diesel does it need a catch can
Fourby4diesel
Does it need to catch can
Nissan
Ford ranger or whatever
The best catch can is no catch can. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
EGR and PC soot are entirely different, agree.
What did you not explain is that the soot from EGR gas is dry hot air from combustion.
While the soot from the crankcase/valves has high moisture content from splashing oil inside the engine.
Mix them together, the particles from soot will become heavier and that forms the build-ups on the turbo intake down to the intercooler.
So my catch can help my turbo and intercooler cleaner for long life and better efficiency.
I did not buy expensive catch can. Bought cheaper and customised.
Cheers.
I follow you, your the man and love your work, butter Bean!!!!!!
For years we ran egr cummins in trucks in the Pilbara. 195 tonnes gcm working 24/7 not to mention the ones doing regular work. No such thing as a catch can. Last night i watched a CZcams video of a guy in Perth. He bought a 200 series Cruiser. Number 3 was dusted (no surprises there). The dealer had it rebuilt. A year later it was rooted. Oil pissing out everywhere. Rebuilder for Toyota wouldn't touch it because a catch can was fitted. He took it to his local mechanic. Long story short the Ryco catch can had a blocked check valve. Threw the catch can in the bin. Replaced associated gaskets and seals and now she's spot on. As a fitter I've put a lot of thought in to Catch Cans and this is why i won't ever fit one for the exact reasons on this video. Don't ever forget how much good for your Diesel it is to get it hot and give it a decent long run. They love to work. It'll do the world of good. Short constant trips will do more damage than anything.
Ryco supplied that guy with another catch can and he has that one fitted to his vdj
Dave, you have good points there. My 2013 X Trail was driven primarily in Perth by a lady driver. When I changed the oil & filter I changed the air filter too, I was shocked to see the amount of oil on the turbo side of the air filter. I’m country driving it now plus give it a lot more revs through the gears, oil on filter is down 70%, newly fitted catch can, I hope, will reduce it even more.
you shouldn't put oil filters in either, they require maintenance, nore any other filter, because if it isn't serviced it can get blocked! I've heard of dumb takes befor but this is an impressive one! Screw the enviro laws, I like clean intake systems, mist blow by is a fact of an engines operation, by removing as much oil mist as possible vastly improves intake system cleanliness, and due to the reduced build up on turbos they stay better balanced longer, thus a good deal is accomplished with a minimal effort.
So an idiot never bothered to service their engine and then shocked it doesn't work so X part is bad? Ya I'ma call a non sequitur on that
I’ll stick with my catch can thanks…but I’ll continue to watch your videos for your opinions….cheers
Great video thanks mate.👍
Great video, very informative 👍👍
Love your vids watching it at 54.5k Subscribers
I do agree with you that egr is most the issue. If you have a good catch can and well mantain it i think it will be even better. There is alot of oil that they catch . That is going imto the intercooler sitting there still guming up intake. Will still turn sticky over time . I recon do both but if you want to do one egr deletev
I was keen to give a can a go on my Freelander 2 but having looked at lots of YT clips both for and against what I see is that most of what comes out (80-90%) is water. One clip showed a lab analysis and the other stuff in the can was is such small volumes it was pretty irrelevant. Water and oil always looks bad, so people get the panic button pushed.
Best thing seems to be keep maintaining it well and give it a good hot run regularly (the Italian tune-up).
Exactly 👏🏻
Some people can be really cruel.
hi many many trucks have catch cans . Some are even disposable . Reason why automotive does not have them is cost . When a good catch works well its great idea.
Many many injectors carbon up/wear in part due to debris . The tip fouling and or wear has been happening to injectors since they were invented . Any thing u do to reduce injector failure is also a good idea .
I always doubted catch cans. I always thought if they were as necessary as I've seen. It would come with them from the factory.
They changed it from entering the atmosphere
Yes. And all newer vehicles have an oil separator to catch oil as it comes out of the crank case.
The factory doesn’t care what happens to your car after the warranty period. That’s when a catch can pays for itself
And you really think manufacturers want vehicles to last forever?
Have to be real careful if using one, they can cause high pressure blow by the seals. The only filter i will use is a pre filter.
I'm with you on the EGR and catch cans being two separate issues, however you even mentioned it yourself that the crankcase ventilation gas contains soot, a bit of oil etc, so the point of a catch can is actually to capture that soot etc and prevent it being sent back through the intake (via the turbo) thus preventing those from caking up.
The minute amount of soot in the oil is not the problem
@@Fourby4Diesel, I believe you need to take into account the piston blow by is not straight out oil, it’s oily/ sooty vapour ( yes some eventuates in the sump oil) but mostly due to crankcase pressure goes back up to air intake/ turbo and in my case gives an oil stain on the air filter. Provent is on now, no oil on filter or in the air intake to turbo, so the air is cleaner. As to the ERG valve, it returns exhaust gases (soot particles). If the vehicle is driven right, build up should be minimal as in the exhaust system. Just my 2 cents worth.
@@Fourby4Diesel , Antony, you should play this back and listen to yourself speaking gobbledegook about blowby being oil, like in the sump. It is not, it’s been combusted and contaminated, soot yes, Co2, H2o(water), and other nasties, not what you want circulating back into your engine, catch it and drain it off! Letting this stuff back through the intake gives you that lovely black treacle you talk about finding in the inlet manifold. Just my 2 cents.
The blowby gas is combustion products, but the crankcase is invariably filled with oil mist when the engine is running. That oil mist gets carried out through the breather with the blowby gas.
Hmmm ,my blow by feeds into inlet pipe to turbo after air cleaner mitz 3.2 ,so no oil stain on filter at all
I know it's illegal (but so is a blocked/disconnected egr) but I ran my pcv hose down into the chassis. Was a bit worried about crankcase pressure getting high due to no vacuum on the pcv, but after a year or more of towing a small van my D22 hasn't blown any seals, and I've rust-proofed that section of chassis.
Hi Sir I've got a PT Cruiser & I will be installing a 3 Port Oil Catch Can as I have blow by problem & this oil catch can will solve my problem & having the 3 Port Oil Catch Can with Filter will definitely will solve my problem as the hose from the PCV Valve going to the intake manifold I'm getting oil into the intake manifold & there is another hose on the other rocker cover that goes to the big air box I'm getting oil into the big air box & clogging up the air filter with oil & yet the 2 liter engine runs well & installing the 3 port oil catch can with filter & on the bottom of the oil catch can it has a tap so I can drain the oil out of the catch can into a container & that way I'm going get clean air into the manifold & blow by from the other rocker cover into the other intake of the Oil Catch Can as I have 2 intakes & 1 outlet on this Oil Catch Can & the outlet of the oil catch can the hose goes from there to the intake manifold & the hose that came from the other rocker cover to the big airbox I block that fitting off that Big Airbox & Solve that problem Kind Regards Peter
How about if ya vent to atmosphere? Dose the soot from the egr then become an abrasive or not a issue?
All the experts on 4wd action know better than the Toyota engineers. Ya have to have one.
I can tell you dont work in engineering.
Engineering is the science of compromise and one of the biggest pressures on automotive engineers is the bean counters and maintenance.
Why do you think service intervals on cars have been stretched out to 20,000kms in some cases? you think the engineers decided that? no, it was the bean counters and the environmental push to reduce servicing costs and enviro impact and the engineers are forced to basically accept this trade off as an acceptable compromise.
The biggest problem with catch cans are they are another USER SERVICE item, like checking tyres and washer bottle fluid. If a catch can is installed it would need to be checked and drained periodically BETWEEN service intervals by the user. The consequences for not doing so are not good - increasing liability.
The bean counters want to reduce liability and servicing requirements while engineers want to increase reliability.
COMPANY MEETING ROOM
Engineers: there is a problem with blow by
beans: can you solve it?
Engineers: yes, it will cost an additional X amount and require additional user servicing.
Beans: What is the consequence if the user does not service it properly?
engineers: it can make a horrible looking mess of the engine bay and cause running issues.
Beans: Will it run acceptably without significant issue for the warranty period?
engineers: well technically most likely yes but will cause long term problems
Beans: we cannot trust the user to service this item as required. REJECTED!
Thats how engineering in a company works.
It the spot yeah, but it’s the spot combining with the oil and vapour to make a stick goop that gets stuck in the intake. Soot on its own wouldn’t be a massive issue.
Wearing your valve seats down maybe isn’t an a massive issue if you’ve got hydraulic lifters
I reckon they need to look inside the cool air to intake hose. Is it dry? Why fit a catch can. Is it wet? You need more than a catch can. Is it using oil? Why fit a catch can, what are you catching?
Well, if a catch can was that important, wouldn't the manufacturers just install them at the factory?
I agree with you. Catch can do not solve the problem it just retard the effect. One should investigate Why do we have blowby gas. A bad valve stem seal or a bad injector seal will suck oil into pistons. Piston rings may be word but the compression test will show that. Catch can are not the solutions. I opened a cdftv D4D engine and the issue came from seals on injectors and intake valves.
Blowby gas is usually caused by driving an engine cold or worn rings mostly.
Towing 3 tonnes up a steep hill under near full throttle DRAMATICALLY increases blowby pressure and the amount of oil particles dumped into the whole intake system. That is just a simple mechanical fact.
Yes your advice is sound, yet,
in my diesel experience , it has led me to install quality catch cans similar to the Hummel & the Ryco of which i firmly believe is the best associated catch can product on the market at this moment ,and was developed right here in Australia , Melbourne.
in all my 70’s series I install catch cans for intercooler longevity and preventative maintenance further down the track ,
Typically for the removal of intercooler residue and associated condensation.
I believe it is important to not discredit the importance of oil and moisture residue removal prior to intercooler inductions,
As this pre egr filtering process will allow the intercooler to operate at an increased level of efficiency for an extended period of time ,
The high quality catch can is an insurance package for the intercooler that has pre egr inductions.
Also I run a pre water / fuel filter as another insurance policy.
Thank you for all your vids and time given I very much like your info
I have 4 vehicles with catch cans, since fitting them the carbon build up in the intake has been dramatically reduced.
it goes directly to the engine combustion chamber
But is there dry soot being recirculated into your engine and acting like an abrasive? A compression test compared with the an engine of similar kms but without a can’t help can would be interesting. ✌️
@@GarthThomsonbut exhaust valves have soot exiting every exhaust stroke ?
Exactly if u install a catch can then you don't have to clean ur intake as often, because my 94 toyota corolla tend to have carbon build in the intake quite often so this will definitely help my situation..
I had a provent on my 2012 prado from 40,000 to70 000 took it off as my own experiment and found intake wasn't to bad compared to my mates prado same year he had 60 000 which never had a catch can and had more build up. My intake had dry build up and his has more and was moist build up. I've had catch can off for the past 20 000ks took off intake last week and I now have moisture built up. I always drop my engine oil at 7000ks and notice the oil is definitely dirtier when it hasn't had catch can. Not sure whether to put catch can back on
Dont use it...maybe your friend engine has no leaks from gaskets and your engine may have it.
If I ask a Ford Technician to install a damn catch can in my engine bay , he or she would look at me as if I came from another planet . So I'd rather keep my dollars warm in my pockets and go fishing !!
You need a well designed catch can preferably the one that doesn't come with blood.
Hay the oil Viscosity is that a big thing because toyota use a 5w30 in a 2014 prardo ??
I have been a diesel mechanic for forty years and I say as quickly as possible take the catch can off and throw it in the bin.
Intakes getting clogged up wasn’t much of an issue 40 years ago…… combination of oil mist + egr gases= an intake full of crap, I’ve had a few manifolds off and they are 80-90% blocked up, the solution catch can…..
I have been a diesel mechanic for
forty one years and I say dont listen to this kid
My diesel is intermittently smoking greyish smoke , feels like leaking turbo . Can’t pin point is it crankcase pressure or the turbo
Thanks for the video. Wouldn't it make sense to fit a filter on the cold side of the egr to filter the particulates out of the Exhaust Gases being fed back to the inlet. The oil in the manifold wont hurt the engine or performance and may even slow valve seat recession( valve clearance ajustments). Not sure if you could fitt a paper filter after the EGR heat exhanger? or would it still be too hot?
What would be good if they took the Egr after the DPF’s on all the later vehicles problem solved keep watching videos. Thanks for the ideas with already discussed many times ha ha all the best.
@@Fourby4Diesel I tune Petrol Race cars, so new to diesels. It may have been discussed many times but has it been done and what were the results? Ta heaps
Spot on mate. Somehow people will argue with this, no evidence whatsoever just Bro-science
Technically he didnt show any evidence here at all. He just explained the systems were separate. Yeah, thanks Einstein, we all know that.
If you want actual data and evidence you will have to look elsewhere at the loads of video's that people have done that actually empirically measured the effectiveness of a quality, properly designed catch can system with filters.
The other thing he doesnt really talk about here is the fact that a good catch can might not totally solve the EGR problem, but it DOES massively reduce other issues, such as filling the intercoolers with oil, and a known problem with engines pulling timing due to oil ingress. So, while he rubbishes other legitimate businesses, he didnt provide any data, no examples, no photographic evidence of testing and trials and it sounded like a poorly worded ramble overall.
Fiat do it. It's called low pressure egr and is picked up from after the dpf.
Love watching your videos even if I own V6 150. Learned a lot thru your videos.
Get some V6 videos going. Do it for your V6 watches. :).
John Cadogans CZcams channel auto expert did a really comprehensive report on catch cans a couple of years back which agrees with everything you say, and he’s an auto engineer. It amazes me that so many off-road CZcams channels promote these unnecessary devices.
I like Cadogen, he is rational and uses a scientific approach.
Well I got a Triton yesterday, it's only 16 months old and 21k on the clock so under warranty.
It was a click and collect job and it looks in showroom condition.
I discovered today it has a process west catch can, they cost $425, I don't know if I should bypass I and put it back to OEM condition
@@Steven_Rowe what did you decide on doing?
He's the biggest clown on CZcams.
@@AP-ow5vu cannot agree more,Cadogen is a total bs
When Toyota, Land Rover and Ford dont have them fitted from factory, on their top of the range models you have to wonder. The money they would make by having catch cans as an option at purchase would be a marketing wet dream.
While you're at it explain the pain staking process that went into acquiring the optimum air-fuel ratio to give a vehicle the cleanest, most HP, and MPG. from the fuel before introducing the internal engine sewage into the air intake and down into the combustion chamber. Then talk about what happens to the air intake system over time, as well as the combustion with this internal sewage from the crankcase ventilation, as well as what happens to the HP and MPG and the defrences to the emissions as a result of this contamination in the system. Rather than collecting it in a separate can and being disposed of at the same time as regular oil filter changes or sooner. But not reintroduced back into the cold air intake system.
Great explanation, Thanks Anthony
I have a HPD catch can installed from 0km on a hilux, its has a mixture of water and oil each time I clean it out. I dont have an egr plate......yet, but it will be interesting to see what my system looks like when I do install and do a clean due to the catch can. that'll be the test of it - did it do f.all or did it reduce it
This is the issue. There is endless catch can videos yet no comparison between say what the intake looks like after 100,000kms with a can and no can.
Perfectly explained 👍
Have you contacted any manufacturers in regards to having the EGR after the DPF?
Love your videos by the way, very informative and easy to follow.
Hey legend, I've got an 09 kun26 with the egr blocked off. Is this still something to worry about?
no
The guy from Berrima Diesel should be sailing cars on Parramatta road .
Ok so I'm confused are they worth it or not?
I dont think plumbing EGR after DPF would work, wouldn't you loose all boost pressure as soon as the EGR valve opened if it was connected after the turbo/dpf?
On a separate note, iv just finished my 2nd intake manifold removal and clean and it was ~60% blocked and a prick of a job to do, so iv just installed an EGR restrictor plate with 8mm hole but not convinced that it will completely stop the EGR soot building up. Has anyone verified that the EGR plate with a holes still prevents build up? Like noted klms when fitted and checked after 100k klms for e.g.?
Why would you loose boost?
what car are you driving?
Thank you for putting so much reason into this subject. I’ve been an advocate for keeping things stock and spending money on maintenance rather than mods forever. Glad to see other people think alike.
🙋Agreee
Great video. Very informative. Can you please explain the best way to look after a new Diesel engine? How to run in and keep it clean. Thanks.
Stick a quality catch on and dump your oil every 5k then every 10k change oil and filter and you will forever motor without a single issue
I think you are wrong here, look at Audi, and some of the german cars. They have oil building up on the valves that can eventually cause a check engine light, a catch can can help to prevent that.
So what would be you advice to running a catch can on a 200 series VDJ. Have Egr electronically disabled. Catch can is only there to stop oil vapour entering the air intake and hitting the left hand side turbo wheel as where it enters in the factory location on the 200 series. 🤔
It is amazing how many people think they are a good thing ??????
I’ll just keep it stock and look after it very well.
Thanks for all your good advice. 👍
Can u expand on "look after it very well" to prevent the inlet getting clagged up with re circulated oil fumes, I want to do the same
@@rolandgauci1153 Diesel combustion residues are greater than in...catch oil
Removed and Sold my catch can kit few months ago after following fourbyfourdiesel.
No it’s the mixture of the egr gases and and oil from blow by that clog the inlet, so reducing the oil reduces the clogging of the inlet manifold !🤷♂️ They are seperate systems BUT they both combine in the inlet manifold which is where the problem is. I do enjoy your very informative videos but totally disagree on this subject and wonder why you can’t see the value in what the catch can does??🤙
so what your saying is berrima diesel, Roothy, Allan gray among many others dont know what there talking about PLEASE pull the other one
They just want to sell your crap you don’t need wake up
catch can is only halvf of the problem.
the engine still doesent get cold clean air.
40 prosent of the problem....
When you shut the egr off no problem anymore
High pressure and low pressure EGRs...
This is terrible advice, I’m sorry, but having cleaned hundreds of manifolds, I’ve never seen any flow restrictions before the EGR valves! Oil on the other hand causes rubber intercooler hoses to go soft and blow, rubber seals in inter coolers to fail, sensor issues etc etc. full synthetic oils are…..wait for it…….extremely thin!!! They get through an un restricted breather hose from the rocker cover to the inlet of and turbo! Turbos suck right? Abrasive EGR lol, how many pre common rail with crapy mechanical injection block manifolds? Wow, really bad advice buddy.
😂🙏🤞✌️😉
I Would have thought the restrictor plate would want to go directly behind the EGR valve and before the EGR sensor.
👏👏👏
Short driving with diesel will clog up long distances is the best
I only use my newish Diesel Ute for long road trips. I change oil and all filters every 10 k . I use my Corolla for running around locally. Hopefully my Ute will last a long time.
What the difference between a Catch Can and an Oil Separation System? I have a Provent 200 system fitted to me 2018 Pajero Sport and it's collecting around 60 - 80mls of black watery oil each 5000klms. It's done 49,000klms and the oil is changed as per factory specs by the dealer. If I remove the cap the engine fumes are pretty bad. I removed the intercooler and hoses to check for any oil and they were all dry.
If as you say, these systems are not required, then why are they now being fitted by vehicle makers?
I have done the same kms as you with the same 200provent on my 2012 V8, 78series. Had a full soot clean, added the oil and water seperator kit and had it dyno tuned at 60,000kms.
It is now, 101,000kms, 12mnths later... took the intercooler off and checked all the pipes and they were clean with not a drop of blackness on anything... I was a bit concerned and called UDT because i aint no mechanic but they said that its fine. I was thinking there still would be some sort of residue but theres zero.
Although, I have removed the provent 200 pressure valve thing and have not placed it back on and its missing so no loss there... it just looks like my bonnet is smoking sometimes. Will replace it when i change the oil pre filter.
because he is confusing opinion with demonstrated fact and assuming makers aren't designing based on minimal cost vs max reliability. I design based on max reliability, thus a quality CCV system is part of that, challenge here is we all so get to -50c the odd time.
The problem with new cars is that the engine feeds hot air from egr and then a emulsion of oily water into the intake and this hits the inlet valves and cakes the valve seats.
I have a catch van and it works great.
It is not water the engine produces, it is an emulsion of a horrible greasy mess.
The EGR is the problem exhaust gas recirculation
@@Fourby4Diesel Yes, the egr is a big problem, but if you try and block it, the car will throw dash light. You can fit a restrictor plate, but you must have a 6-7mm hole drilled in it.
🤣
Your🤣telling me🤣 i invented 7mm 10 years ago
No more catch can $400
Just $10 7mm it works
Watch the videos 😮😉🙏✌️
@@Fourby4Diesel Well done, it was probably your video l watched when l done mine, thanks.
Ryco are calling them “crankcase filter assembly kits”. Around $600.
Excellent product ,best I’ve ever used after 2500km I drained 22ml from the ryco catch can drain hose
The actual voice is provided by Kevin Bloody Wilson 😳🤷♂️
This guy says we only need one filter because the manufactures spent millions in R&D but forgets that they also want the cars to secretly go kaput to we can keep buying them !
You don’t need a catch can. You need to dump the pcv to atmosphere like diesels used to
Will fail RWC. And if you have a stack, insurance assessor sees it, they will void your insurance. I used to work in insurance.
@@steveedmond9362 I’m aware and I don’t care. It takes 30 seconds with a screwdriver to put it back in. I’ll take my chances
Have to disagree with the videos conclusions. In simple terms, if your not pulling a van or heavy load, a catch can is probably not warranted. If you towing a heavy load, a catch can is likely a very worthwhile investment.
It's all about crank case pressure. When towing a heavy load up hills and the engine working hard there is going to be increased crank case pressure, which vents straight into the intake, generally the turbo. That increase crank case gases hold oil. Not only does all this oil clog up the intercooler, it hits the incoming exhaust gas right at the throttle body. The result oily dirty sludge build-up.
When not towing my catch can filter (provent 200) stays like new. When towing the van over say 5,000 kilometers, the filter will be heavily oiled and quite a few tablespoons worth of oil will drain from the drain pipe. This is from a well maintained engine with quite recent reconditioned injectors.
Yesterday 6th September 2021 I bought an Mr My20 Triton only 21k on the clock and almost 6 years warranty
Today I find there is a process west catch can on it.
These things like very well made and cost $400.
It's not what I would go out and buy and of course I ask the question, if these huge are solving a problem then WHY aren't they standard OEM on the vehicle.
Are engine designers stupid, do they know less than after market accessory makers or do they just want to sell you something.i don't claim to know engines
I don't whether I should leave it or get the original hose back on.
Most people advocating for catch cans are the ones selling them…
And the people who use them.😉
Yes!
After reading all this I'm ordering a Cybertruck.
If catch cans were good manufacturers would make it standard equipement.
And yet the infallible auto industry you envisage gave us metal dash boards, no safety belts and the Edsel.
some industrial enjines did come with them fitted [ isuzu] also some hino trucks
They do. They are built into the rocker covers of all engines.
No they wouldn't.. its a trade off with price and being good enough to just get out of warranty.. All vehicles a built to a price, do a quality or durability..
Plenty of industrial engines come with them as standard equipement. The problems they solve usually only arise when the vehicle is out of warranty and no longer their problem.
A high quality catch can, like a pro-vent, that is emptied and maintained, is a great addition to any modern diesel engine.
so your saying - only follow you (and no one else) for diesel engine advice - yeah no thanks
Are you a tec because you don't sound overly confident about what you are talking about
berrima diesel Australia ain’t got shit on fourby4Diesel 🤙🏼
Guys run a catch can, stop listening to CZcams mechanics trying to make money from every sucker who believes them.
Guys don’t run a catch can stop listening to all these people that want to sell catch cans because they’re the one that’s making money somehow somebody thinks CZcams mechanics make money if you believe me ha ha ha ha how funny are these people you’ve got to be kidding me ha ha Ha ha ha Yep that’s me laughing it’s real Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha ha Burymydiesel
Ha! Bury my Diesel. Might as well bury it if you taking your car to Berrima Diesel. The clowns think a the ram head safari snorkel pulls in rain, sending it into your intake. I mean, say no more 🤣
Your knowledge sharing based on facts and data is second to none Anthony 👍🏼
They do take in rain. Soaks your air filter. They’re spot on!
Guess I’ll be doing a catch can delete...
another clueless youtuber loll
This might be a dumb question but why do ford have their services at 15000ks if there is a build up of soot problem maybe Ford wants to sell more replacement engines and parts!!!!????!!!_____===?
They don’t care about how long the vehicle lasts 15,000 will do the job for five years or so probably 10 it makes it look cheaper to service less services less inconvenience