Tesla Motor Coolant Seal: DIY Failure "Investigation" and Replacement
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- In this episode, I replace the Tesla Coolant seal in the motor. Learn and do better 😀
Updates
1) Heat the aluminum manifold in the oven to 250°C before seal insert! Thanks to @TSINED1. Edit: around 125°C (~250F) may be better due to the lower chance of damaging possible adhesives /sealants (between the manifold and the pipe and/or in the seal). Or use a hydraulic press with a helper pipe.
2) way less sealant should be used (just a thin film) compared to what I did. Thanks to @Al Savage
3) Maybe it is acceptable to have a bit of damage on the excluder lip, so maybe I spent too much attention to that?
4) Why sanding with such a narrow strip of sandpaper: I wanted to keep the "unpolished" shaft parts in their "original" state for in case my sanding made things worse.
5) My assumption of a worn-out seal may be incorrect: The measured smaller seal lip tickness may also be caused by the "forming" step (heating and pushing over a mandrel) in the seal manufacturing process.
Timestamps
0:00 triple lip Chenming seal
0:13 SKF rubber seal alternative
0:50 preforming the seal
2:30 analysis to see if seal fits
3:07 virtual seal analysis in 3D CAD
4:03 surface roughness
4:51 sanding jig
5:16 sanding the shaft
6:19 seal failure analysis
8:47 seal tighness demonstration
9:12 sealing the seal with silicone
9:46 hammering the seal in
See also
sites.google.com/view/teslald...
Coolant seal (30x55x8mm CTLBDYW) @ AliExpress: www.aliexpress.com/item/22518...
www.myrav4ev.com
Disclaimer
This video is for entertainment purposes only. All work you do on your car is at your own risk.
Keywords:
Toyota RAV4 2012 2013 2014 Mercedes B-class Electric Drive Tesla Model S large drive unit LDU motor BEV glycol coolant fluid Zerex G48 automatic transmission fluid ATF Dexron VI leak battery aegis ring bearing bearings grinding noise CAD model PTFE teflon rotary lip seal failure drain housing rotor shaft repair common mode grounding runout eccentricity fluting wear axial radial play speed sensor check rebuild assemble disassemble vent reluctor ring expensive cheap repair DIY out of warranty - Auta a dopravní prostředky
![[DIY] Tesla LDU coolant leak fix story](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mBY_yp68CQw/mqdefault.jpg)
I was not expecting to see this depth of technical presentation when I clicked on this video!! Thank you for posting this!!!
You're welcome!
This is above n beyond, never considered any of these steps, just slap a new seal when i replace things... Hope this holds up well.
Awesome job! Thank you ❤
Your analysis may be more thorough than by Tesla Engineering and QA, indeed most auto manufacturers. If they were so thorough, perhaps there would be less endemic problems with vehicle designs.
SKF makes a bearing driver kit with cones to cover most common bearing sizes. You can use it to drive in seals as well. It’s the best but only worth it if you’re doing this type of work all the time. Otherwise some PVC pipe would work too
Great video, I'm glad I found your channel. Would a long throw arbor press make installing the seal any easier? Thanks!
Yes that would be better but I did not have one...
On Aliexpress this seal comes in different versions but it does not say what this means and which one to choose.
I've been wrenching on my own cars for 30+ years and I've found that the best way to drive a seal like this is to just use the flat face of a ball peen hammer and gently tap the seal in walking around the seal to keep it as even as possible. Seal drivers always seem to want to apply too much pressure to one side or the other and I've bent a couple trying to do it that way. I've never had one fail using the gentle tap with a hammer face method.
It's interesting to me that these seals fail so readily. Standard water pump seals on ICE cars can run for 100k+ miles without leaking, so based on that I wouldn't expect to see these coolant seals failing any sooner. I'm also thinking of like a rear main seal on an engine because it's much larger diameter than even these LDU motor seals so sfpm on the sealing surface should be equally high, and again they'll run a very long time before failure, and those seals can see 60+ psi of pressure. My truck when I bought it had 190k miles on it and it wasn't even leaking yet. I changed it because the transmission was out of it, but there was no leak yet. I'd be interested to hear from an engineer with expertise in this area with ideas on why this happens in this application.
Thanks for the input. We have done a ton of research about Teflon seals. See also the website in the description for more info.
Great video! Hi there! Saw your great video! Very informative.
Just had to tow away my Tesla to Amsterdam ZO. The display showed PNRD in red, couldn’t move anymore.
I received an estimate from Tesla for my model S 2014 today. Way too much for me! They say: there is a coolant leakage, hence the drive train needs to be replaced and lined again.
I live in the Netherlands. Can I go to your place? Where would that be?
Many thanks!
Ik woon in California...
My 2013 model s had the large drive unit (performance model) replaced at 47k miles. I now have 62k miles and am concerned it will go again at any time. I work on my own cars and this would be invaluable to know how to repair this, I have done engine/trans swaps on honda's in the past. Thank you so much. I am in Chico just 1 hr and 45 minutes away from you.
62k in total or only on the new DU?
@@diyEVguy 62k in total on the car. I talked to someone yesterday at a supercharger who has had his DU replaced 4 times now with 115k miles =(
@@eastmanresearch3143 Oh, you are just getting started. This guy replaced his DU 13 times in a million mile: czcams.com/video/53E2vAF5DtA/video.html
@@diyEVguy I wonder what the permanent fix would be. It's ridiculous that Tesla can't make these last 100k. I wonder what the root cause is in most of these situations - main bearings or coolant seals - I would think the fluid change interval of the coolant and/or differential fluid would get some contaminants out that might wear out the seals. I'd be up for doing coolant and differential fluid changes every 10k miles if it doubled the life expectancy of the drive unit. Whoever can come up with a fix for this outside of Tesla will make a fortune.
@@eastmanresearch3143 Judging by the posts of QC Charge, the coolant leak may be a large fraction of the DU-related problems. But common mode voltages, combined with agressive driving, causing fluting, may also be a common root cause. Personally I would try to avoid frequent large accellerations.
First of all thank you for step by step videos of your repair process. I am also in process of repair my Rav4EV and currently trying to find all the seals(primary rotor seal, rotor seal on manifold and 2 shaft seals) In your videos I did not see you replace the primary rotor seal. Did you reuse this seal? Much appreciated if you can reply. Thanks
I did. See my other video on that.
@@diyEVguy Your right. You did cover on another video. Thank you.
You can pre-heat manifold in owen and seal will be drop easy
That's a good idea! Thanks!
@@diyEVguy I really enjoy your videos on this topic, and I do not want in any way to be discouraging of your work and presentation. I, too, am not an expert, and I've learned that there's always somebody smarter than I. Below is mostly opinion based on my experience and education, and is offered not specifically for you personally, but for others who may be watching/reading.
This sealing assembly is an interference fit, meaning that the seal's OD is slightly larger than the housing's ID, and the seal's OD is designed to deform and crush slightly upon insertion to the housing.
Preheating a seal's housing (the manifold, in this case) can be an effective installation technique, especially when the housing is aluminum, due to the greater expansion rate compared to the seal's steel -- if both were the same material, heat would not reduce the interference, although it would make both materials more "fluid" in a relative way -- but the note you've applied at the top of this page mentions "250C", which is quite high IMO. There is both a safety issue -- this is quite hot to be handling -- and there's a possibility of seal damage from heat transfer. Sure, PTFE itself is quite heat tolerant, but the seal assembly may be composed of non-PTFE materials (for example: bonding agents) that cannot tolerate that extreme. Off the top of my head, I can imagine that the hollow rotor tube that looks to be steel, pressed into the aluminum manifold/cover/seal housing, may be installed using its own sealant (such as Loc-Tite) which is rendered useless at 250°C. Put another way, using heat at that level may introduce a problem while solving another.
I would think milder heating, in the neighborhood of 150°C (~300°F) would be more appropriate.
As I have access to a hydraulic press, I would be using a steel pipe adapter and press for installation, rather than the much higher shock load of impact installation. That manifold casting doesn't look robust. I liked your paper-tube-and-epoxy initial attempt, though. I've certainly beat enough seals into place over the years, but this isn't a wheel bearing seal here, where the stakes and tolerances are low.
Lastly, as the volume of "air" -- a leakage path -- between the manlfold's counterbore and the seal's OD will be extremely low, it's not necessary to use even 5% of the RTV that you used in the counterbore; a mere "smear" of RTV would be adequate, and even then almost all of that will be pushed to the back of the counterbore and do nothing. The purpose of using a semi-liquid seal compound is to fill in any machining imperfections of the counterbore or surface irregularities in the seal's OD (or fill any grooves created during installation), so very little sealant is needed. Overuse of sealants is a common cause of surplus sealant eventually breaking free and ending up somewhere where chunks of sealant should not go -- such as smaller coolant passages or jammed in the water pumps' impeller and/or inlet ports.
Again, Thanks for this and your other excellent videos. I especially like your phrase, "Do better", as that sets the proper expectations :)
@@alsavage1 Thank you so much! I will update the descriptions accordingly. You have very good points.
@@alsavage1 Thank you for the added insights. I modified my description accordingly.
@@alsavage1 What do you think about using anaerobic sealant in place of the RTV?
How long ist the metal coolant pipe? I like to make a tool to press the seal in with a hydraulic press (instead of a cardboard tube and a hammer).
250mm in my case total length
@@diyEVguyGreat, Thank you!
Where can I find this kit?
See link below video - I just added it.
сальники теперь в прошлом, этот узел модифицируется чтобы охлаждающая жидкость на заходила в ротор , так теперь делает Тесла , и есть в продаже не оригинальный коллектор , и больше ничто никогда не протечёт
Correct, thank you, I should make a new video about that.
Yes it's a rotor coolant delete manifold. QC Charge used to offer them and rumor says that Tesla is now using no rotor cooling on RMN LDUs. However rotor temperature and the grease melting out of the bearings might be an issue.
How about heating the manifold to say 120°C prior inserting the seal? Why is there not a proper ceramic disk water pump type of seal? People have to pay big $ for replacement DUs because of that seal.....i was lucky, happened at 240.000km and 2 months warranty left.
Good points, parts of those are discussed in the link in the description.
if they gave you a classic Tesla RMN motor, it will happen again. They last max 150-200.000km.
@@peterhandke3936 It did after 120.000km. Caught it early. Found red shaft seal. Installed drains and 3 lipped chinese seal.
Is milling sound related to this?
Dutch man in the states? Groeten!
@@jonitan3584 ja. Not sure if milling is related to a leak. Could be that you have a leak and bearings have been flushed dry and are worn out so that the gears start to grind, but that's all quick speculation.
@@diyEVguy Dank je! ik denk inderdaad dat dat gebeurt is.
Mine looks way more terrible. I'm using 220 grit 😐
Oof! Good luck.
what if you replace the coolant with a mineral oil, its not conductive
Oils have higher viscosity than coolant so it will run much hotter probably which is not good.
The coolant now used in Teslas (and other EVs) is G48 which is non conductive.
good content. Like and subscribe👍
Thanks!
Why tesla with Chinese seal , Why not use National or CR SKF
Because of the reasons outlined in this lengthy thread: openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2242 So if you know a better commercial off-the-shelf alternative, the community is open for recommendations 🙂
See also here for more replacement parts info: sites.google.com/view/teslaldu/parts
Corteco is also Giant in sealing industry provide OEM for lot of car manufacture@@diyEVguy