Bel'Veth: Why She Will Always Be Overpowered | League of Legends
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
- Bel'Veth is one of League's newest champions, and like other modern day releases, is one of the most frustrating champions to deal with as an opponent. Interestingly she continues to receive nerf after nerf, yet despite that she maintains a solid 51%+ winrate without fail. Today we'll be discussing her design and gameplay to find out why she stays strong no matter how many times she gets nerfed.
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#LeagueOfLegends #LoL #Belveth - Hry
Turns out overloading a champion with 20 passives and 3 actives on a single ability isn't a very good idea.
I love Bel and I agree. She simply has too much going onto be healthy and should probably have only a little over half of what she actually has access to
What about k’sante? A tank that can one shot you, has multiple dashes, a cc immune, a knock up on a 3 seconds cooldown that pulls you back into his team, a dash ability that goes over wall that can catch you and also serve as an escape tool. Talk about overloaded kit
@@mond2440man i feel like if i see that on the enemy team on wild rift eventually id just start crying
@@mond2440 one overloaded kit, does not excuse another one, basically 80% of the champions after Ornn are loaded with stuff they don't need.
@@mond2440 how does ksante take away from the original comment?
its like they looked at master yi and said "yeah that looks like it needs 3 more dashes and hard cc"
also make the defensive ability un-interruptable, and she can attack people while in defensive form. nothing will go wrong right
Too bad master yi beats belveth in a 1v1 lol. Alpha strike is op.
nah master yi loses if bel have enough stacks
@@d1odream not that impactful tho because at the end of a day you'll do team fights more than 1v1s
It's almost like having so many properties while also being a late-game duelist with ways to both deal and deny damage makes a champ too versatile in execution.
Edit: yeah duelist describes her gameplay better.
ironically thats exactly what several late game skirmisher have: riven, yone, fiora etc
She is not a lategame carry, she is a snowballer, her teamfight is terrible and her winrate drops significantly at 30+ minutes while having infinite scaling and a better baron buff so imagine if she didn't. She is a lategame duelist, similar to fiora, where almost no one can beat her in a 1v1 late
@@doglopmaz she beats fiorta late because fiora ults and she just runs away stunning her
@@felipecavalcante3266 i mean only belveth has that many, the other champs you said do have a few properties they really shouldnt, but they are nothing in comparison to belveth
like im not denying that riven has tons of dashes, hard cc, long range execute damage, improved melee damage, extended range, increased ad
but at the same time, its not tons of dashes, hard cc, resets, stacking true damage, execute true damage, damage reduction, life steal, infinite attack speed scaling, splitpush potential, heal after kills, increased every stat, like damn, even fiora seems fair when described in comparison
@@SM-ys8lwit depends on what fiora parries from belveth, if it’s her w, then fiora will instantly win late game (assuming 5 items/possibly 6). It is possible to get 100% max health % true dmg on fiora’s ulti late game.
Apart from all the other issues, I think that by far the biggest problem is how she has an incredible early game AND is a late game god. Not a single champion should ever have both, it basically means that there is no way to counter her. There's no waiting for her to fall off, and there's no winning early before she gets strong.
As a bel player i agree. not very balanced than the only ones that can shot me down in the early are only champs equally broken (SKARNER, lee, wukong etc) not actually champs that have a better early game. Maybe removing the aditional AS in the passive would be a good nerf for early because in the late game it serves no purpose once you have 100 stacks anyways
I actually did vs her today in solo and I found one of her counter picks is a rammus
@@sytherwusky not really, she can just gank more than rammus thus snowballing then avoid him in team fights using her dashes and her knock up, waiting for him to use his W then just murder him
I am convinced Bel'Veth is half the reason Riot is cracking down on tenacity. They want more options for dealing with overloaded kits than airborne.
i've always said that she should play into her fantasy of being a hive controlling swarm queen more than whatever the hell she has now
The biggest mistake was not making her related to Nami's lore, like, Bel'veth is so sea themed and Nami is a sea themed character that fights the void, they just forgot about Nami and made the story Kai'sa centered because of course it must be about Kai'sa
This this this. Bel'Veth is the perfect candidate for a modern summoner type character but in the end she became a slapping manta ray
hot take but I would have prefered her to be a marksman
kinda similar to how Bard works but more offensive
who wouldn't like being followed by cute voidlings and throw them on ennemies ?
I was expecting a hyper intelligent chess master like Swain, what I got was the hyperactive cleaning shrimp from Finding Nemo.
Right? The only time we see ANY aspect of that is the rare occasion she takes a large objective and instantly starts taking minions. So less than 2 minutes of every game.
I still remember when she was revealed and thinking:
"So she deals true damage on hit, has no attack speed cap, and has multiple dashes and a stun... yeah, she's never gonna be balanced"
An aoe stun, to add insult to injury.
How is it so easy for us to see but so difficult for riot champ designers
@@BoneWalkerlol when I think about it the duration is about as long as malphite ult
i mean, at least that stuff kinda makes sense what the fuck is akshan revive
I find it lowkey hilarious that the queen of the void summons fewer void creatures than malzahar, some random dude who lived in the desert.
Like when I heard they added the queen of the void I was incredibly surprised to find her kit was at all the way it currently is.
But Malzahar doesn't sell skins, you see
@@TehNoobiness oh he absolutely does, he has 11 skins, one of which being three honors so its not sellable, but it "encouraged" you to play the game to get it
The inherent problem with minion-master characters is that they are always feast or famine. Either the minions are able to survive to do whatever thing they are meant to do, or they get instantly vaporized and the master's entire kit is worthless. Look no further than Shaco for examples. His clone has, historically, been a massive problem with his kit and balance. And that's not even counting all the headaches Riot had to endure related to controlling the thing (at first you couldn't -- it was AI controlled and didn't even copy your Shiv throw).
@@PhailRaptor lowkey, I wish League was ballsy enough to do what dota does with Meepo.
(TLDR: Meepo gets another Meepo for every rank he takes in his ult. However, the Meepos only benefit from the true Meepo's boots, and if one Meepo dies, all of them die.)
League couldn't do meepo even if they wanted to because of spaghetti... you don't even get to control 1 illusion let alone 5 independent heroes.
5:50 and he will still be vulnerable to hard engage
Tank veigar: allow me to introduce myself
yeah but then you need to press w, TWICE to kill anything, massive difference
I like the way Hashinshin described her W. You don't miss it, either you fumbled your aim or the enemy used a dash. If you aimed properly, the ability itself is pretty much point and click. A faster and wider Rhaast's W.
True damage and infinite scaling? Nooooooo
Wait, is it %hp true damage? Say no more.
Riot could benefit from character limit when writting down champion kits.
It's flat true damage, not %hp thankfully.
It's flat on hit true damage. And trust me, they are not stupid enough to give her %true damage
The Ult explosion is % missing HP true dmg lol.
Get riot to start typing out character abilities on a 250 character limit xD
@@ignacioperez5479 they did, her ult active literally does %missing hp true damage, imagine an ability so unfair, it lets you infinitely stack flat true damage, get increased stats from killing people, do %missing hp true damage in an aoe, heal, acquire splitpush potential, with the only downside being that you have to stand still for a second to get it all, and some of it is just passively gained by not using it
40 meters in 3 seconds, I fell off a cliff
What kind of low ass gravity do you live in
I hate how chronically online this comment is and I understand it
Grav acceleration is ~9.8m/s^2, do you perhaps live on the moon?
Guys please, hes an exchange student from the Mars colonies. Be kind.
@@goatnoodles9162 too lazy to calculate shit
The more I think about her the more she looks like a mutation of master yi with more mechanical requirements but less ways to shut her down. Her dashes allow her to dodge skill shots and hunt down enemies similar to alpha strike while she also has a stance that allows her to heal and mitigate damage similar to meditation. But then she also has insane tower pressure thanks to her voidlings and hard cc. And infinite scaling attack speed because that's balanced. The thing about master yis mobility is that it is limited by his attack speed, kills for resets and the ability to reach the enemy as well as highlander, which makes him exceptionally dependent on his items, while belveth has this in her fricking base kit.
I think the only real way to balance her is to limit her mobility in the early game in some way. She is not ment to be an early game champ anyway, so why does she have that ganking pressure she currently has???
You know I never thought about it but yea Belveth is like a modern “200 year” version of Master Yi that can do much more with less.
At least with Yi you got to be more prepared for fights
True they re both hypercarries/ skirmishers. Yi is more teamfight oriented while bel veth is more about splitpushing . I would even say bel is more snowballing than master yi cause of your voidlings and turret pressure. 6 voidgribs plus herald and u can end in 20 mins . I m not even talking about 6 grubs plus baron its insane. Though in the yi vs bel veth matchup yi comes up on top because yi can dodge her e dmg.
I think things like making the knockup into a slow on above and below and limiting dashes she gets early on (maybe she gets more directions as she levels up or something?) could help.
@@Blu_Moon_Owlit shows too when belveth is a terror even in Challenger meanwhile yi is completely useless there. (watch broxah play these two to see what I mean)
@@atsukana1704 yea because Yi has no gank potential besides Q which means he won’t have it in the actual fight and just gets gunned down, while Bel has plenty on movement options and a good CC move to ensure she can get a kill if played right. On top of being a hyper carry means she’ll definitely snowball
Every word of what you said in the video, I completely agree with. Bel'Veth is my second most played champion next to Teemo (catching up and almost passing), and I have zero regrets to picking up on her. I literally ended Season 13 with a near 70% winrate and won the first 7 matches in a row of season 14 with her.
The only thing I want to add on is that for some ungodly reason, they allowed a hypercarry to have splitpush potential. Master Yi, Kayle, and Vayne can't remotely hope to splitpush if they fall behind, at least not efficiently. If Bel'Veth gets her wings on the Rift Harold and/or Baron and summons a horde of Void Remora, she will get rid of your towers like a Yorick. I can't tell you how many games I should have lost, but didn't because I took the baron while the enemy team was distracted, and then pushed top or bottom lane, and ended the game.
Funny manta ray lady.
Senna and Bel'Veth are the perfect example of when you ask 'what if' too many times.
She gets nerfs but whenever she gets stronger is due to system changes, she was ok by the end of last season but voidgruds and kraken buffs made her much stronger, that happens to many champs
yeah true , without these system changes she would be in a "non too problematic spot"
This. Kraken made her spike hard as fuck and Voidgrubs made her early gimmick even more oppressive cause she already melted towers, so giving her MORE little things to help push towers AND true damage was just absurdity
Remember, assassins need to be squishy and vulnerable if they can't burst the target down quickly, which is why they usually have a mixture of sustain and tankbusting in their kit
I wish Riot understood what words mean
What? Assassins dont/shouldn’t have sustain or tank busting
@@pearse2944
Then there's rengar that heals for half his lifebar and denies CC while oneshotting squishies with a 700 range point and click dash. And I'm not even mentioning zed and qiyana with their % max health damage tools
@@V1nnF0gg Qiyana has a single % max hp damage ability and it's her ult, which is pretty fair.
@@V1nnF0gg The only assasins who could actually damage tanks would be Rengar with a bruiser build and Evelynn with her W and Magic Pen. Qiyana does have %max health dmg on ult but try doing a full combo on a tank and you'll deal less than 25% damage to their full bar. And although Rengar can one shot you, he's more of a diver, since the only way for him to get out is, actually, his W heal, which is something every assasin needs to have (Eve R, Qiyana's mobility, Kat's resets, Zed R and W, Fizz E, LB's W and R). As an assasin player, asssasin do NOT deal any damage to tanks lol, and unless they're really fed, they would even have trouble taking out tanky/hp heavy champs like Ryze, Darius or Illaoi.
I want to add to her defence that the high winrate is mostly due to smurfs picking her(indicated by her rather low pick rate) because when played correctly (and thus being ahead) she has a lot of impact in games
basically that, if you play her in low elo, she snowballs quickly with her ult mechanics and her split pushing is obscene, she easily crushes games
Wait… Zeri has been out for three years?!
I… I feel so old.
Want to feel really, REALLY old? Nidalee was not a champion on release. She was the first one added to the roster after launch.
@@PhailRaptor You were around to see her release?
You’re league bedrock then. Wow.
3 years??? i thought she came out like last year. stop the cap
I absolutely love Bel'Veth. I love her hyper-attack fantasy. I also can admit she is wildly insane. Stacking TD, TD AoE execute, 4 dash on 1 ability.
The REAL thing that pushed her over the line was introducing Void Grubs early, when she is one of the best early duelists and her contesting it, taking it, and using the empowered R to full rush a lane at 8 minutes is insanity.
"best early duelist" is the issue when she is also a late game monster
eh i dont see how she is one of the best early duelist, she gets demolished 1v1 by a lot of melee jnglers
@labirintocomplesso1273 against TRUE early games like Xin, yeah she can struggle but having 4 Q's to mist champs 1, that damage alone can skew most skirmishes. Plus, E powerspike in 1v1s is disgusting.
I like how for the infinite scalers section when vars was naming all their weaknesses but didn't say senna since she could blast yo ass from fountain
I mean, if we take off her true damage, and nerf her damage numbers... She'd AT LEAST need her first or second item before she can destroy someone, and kinda everyone can destroy everyone on second item, so... It would be somewhat close to sensible, death to a thousand cuts instead of ignoring tanks.
Honestly riot missed out on making a champ lil abathur from heroes of the storm with bel veth
No offense, but can you pleeeease higher your voice. It's difficult to understand you sometimes cuz of the sound level. Or maybe it's a microphone issue, idk, but you're the only one channel i struggling to understand while watching(tho I love your content, you're doing a good job.) So please do smth about it.
same
vars i love your videos!
I’m convinced that the game is now, not even trying to balance the champs, but instead adapt a a lore accurate representation of each champ, which is why someone like taliyah will never beat bel’veth
Before even watching the vid -
1) She has one of the best jungle objective synergies in the game, like Shyvanna but less boring and few of the drawbacks.
2) Has dashes and a CC knockup in her kit which allow for great gank setup.
3) Has an ability that gives her damage reduction while doing DOT within her range which makes dueling against her a pain in the ass.
4) Scales really well into late game despite everything mentioned and can 1v9.
She's almost like Hecarim in that her kit allows her to do almost everything a carry jungler wants, but at least Hecarim has more clear windows of counterplay by comparison.
She feels more like a feast or famine champ like in GM iv sean alot of bel who while yes win the early game manage to lose the mid and far to far behind in the late game out of the 10 bel games i can remember only 3 won cuz they somewhat lost the mid game.
@@cosmicsans3997 Yone, Zeri, Yasuo, and Fiora are all feast-or-famine as well, but doesn’t really stop their disproportionate pick rates nor does it suggest they have balanced kits. Like imo that’s not really a good measure to determine whether a champion is healthy for the game. Belveth is clearly picked quite a lot for a reason.
I think what pushes her over the edge is voigrub/herald impact, if she gets an early void coral and dives you, you can completely lose your turret (even 2 with herald), handicapping you much more reliably than other champions. She's also really good at getting voidgrubs due to stalling with 4 dashes and e dmg reductions or straight up killing you if you're not careful. Even if the match is only slightly going in her favor, her getting access to herald or baron means that if you also lose the next teamfight you can say goodbye to 2 turrets. This "snowball reliability" is what I think makes her so strong.
Her Ult execute damage is also kinda insane, 25% missing hp true dmg means you get oneshot if you're 20% hp or less, but at least it requires a bit of skill and setup.
Both Bel'Veth and Akshan have novels for abilities, but said abilities are incredibly easy to understand, though Akshan is the harder of the two to play due to being less durable and reliable.
the background music brings memories back
Each late game monster had their own threat range. Adc are late game monster's because of their range is their natural protection. Their pressure is their auto range. Nasus is his auto range, He can 2 shot adc with 2 q but can be still kited by adc with peel. Master Yi got untagetability and 90% damage reduction and true damage. Kassadin's threat range is very much like bel'veth's but larger. It is shorter cd which means you can cross maps easily and higher damage The only way he doesn;t oneshot is if he misses his ult. He is capped by his mana. He can't spam it infinitly or in extreame succession. You can say that bel'veth's threat range is the range of her 2 dashes, she can spam it all she wants but its not the part of her kit that scales. You can get it to a 5 second cd but the enemy can move. Bel'veth's problem is that even if she deals infinite damage, she still needs to get to the enemy. The difference between her and nasus is that nasus can tank damage becasue all his items are busier cus his damage comes from his q. Bel'veth's damage comes from on hit. The ult passive isn't the reason she does damage. Its like 7% of her damage. She can win every bruiser tank duel in the late game unlike kass becaue she has more dps and tankyness than kass, kass might lose against a tank that built mr in a straght up 1v1. But she has the nasus problem. ADC kite if you go through front to back. This is the reason she prefer 1v1 or 3v3. In a full blown teamfight. She won't have enough to get through the frontline with out getting melted by adc. In a 3v3 tho, she can weave in and out of the walls to assasinate imobile backline or reduce damage.
Last reason why she sucks in teamfight. Her w cast time feels too long for late game and her powerbudget mostly comes from her trueform. Without it, she is a squisher version of nasus
The augest proplem
Makes a great and fun champion
Then make a HATE-CRIME type champion 6 mounths later
I think a particularly elegant way to fix belveth would be to integrate her stacking with her summons (void remora). that part of her kit always felt tacked on but with the rift changes this season (the void corruption), now's the perfect opportunity to pull something like this off. my take is: where she would normally gain lavender from minion/camp/champ takedowns (or be in the vicinity of their deaths), she gains a stack that corresponds to a summon. epic monsters, dragons, herald, baron give increased stacks and the eventual corruption of camps also increases that amount. champions and minions levelling up also do. so in a sense, her scaling is still there as the game progresses. And based on the amount of summons she has stored, she gains attack speed. but alternatively, she can release her summons all at once, at the expense of her bonuses. there would be a cap of some sort increasing with her level and an extra bonus when its full, along with her attack speed buff being retained (possibly with even better ratios) while in proximity of the horde she summoned, but after it's all been cleared, she's properly and substantially weaker. this kind of back and forth would give a lot more dimensionality of her play and also works wonderfully into the aesthetic of "growing the presence of the void". so now she's a proper monster champ you either confront (counterjungle) to make sure she doesn't stack too much or run from for the same reason, and there's better tension since her uptime isn't 100%. it rewards the belveth player for being smart about her pathing and encourages smart objective play. having an upper limit to her stacking would also balance her out and tying it to her summons would create an interesting minigame for the enemy team where clearing out the void remora will weaken her in a fight but they need to balance it with fighting the actual champion
6:46 Cast ranges are centre to centre, auto attacks are edge to edge, her w is closer to 550 cast range
13:13 I noticed the doesn't get affected by slow form zilean, If they were to change that that would be really helpfull in terms of the mobility problem, obviously you can't slow it down to same percantage of the actual slow but maybe %50 to 60 percent of the slow to apply to the dash would be big
I think the main issues that stem from the champ are fundamental. She plays like no one in the skirmisher class and is more like a typical bruiser, so the way you shut her down changes to shut down a bruiser, but even then you cant cause her nature as a skirmisher makes her also have high damage. Then, her e gives her bonuse stats, but unlike Fiddle W, the only ability compareable to it, she can't be stunned out if it only knocked up, so most of the champs are already out of the picture. Then, the ones that do have a knock up are tanks who she wants to play into cause of their low damage. Her kit is antithetical to her class and counters common tactics cause the only way to counter her is to match her tempo or be better, which is hard cause she gets more free stats and damage out of Q alone than most kits in the game. The only champ that comes close to this level is Kayn, and he gets countered hard by her cause he can only play red and loses the early game cause he has no access to that form. In high elo, especially where teams will help to colapse on the enemy jungle, and in low elo, she can still do it herself cause of how toxic the base kit design is. I love some of the champs Riot August has done, but of the most recent ones hes done, none of them have been stable for the game, and Bel'veth is the worst cause shes a statstick hypercarry that gets more stats. The only solutions are to remove Q resets and make her geavily reliant on getting an ult stack to be playable, like lock out the bonuse stats behind the ultimate so if she doesn't play the fight well she looses the effective stats to play. This also makes it more skill expressive as the suicidal stat players and those that play the champ as a main ate seperated. It's not a good solution, but these are the only changes I can think of that don't change the fundamenrals of the champ.
Huge Bel'veth enthusiast, I think one of the best champions in the game for gameplay FEEL. That being said, she's totally off kilter in terms of balance. I have an idea for bringing her in-line with other jungle champions. Namely, she's in a class of her own; a predator jungler that can hyper-carry through farming if she so choosed. These two things should be mutually exclusive. The trait that needs to be toned down out of the two would be her early game power. During a level 1 skirmish, Q->AA->Q is just over 300% base AD damage worst case, and of course as anyone would tell you, if she can get a full Q rotation on you it's almost always a losing fight. Riot tries to balance that by having her have one of the lowest base AD values in the game, but 300% of the lowest AD value is still over any damage output of other champions at level 1. Some champs like Warwick or Trundle can outheal your damage and Rammus is still tanky enough at this point in the game with W start to fight a 1v1 level 1 invade. Graves and Kindred might be able to do it, but you get my point. Here's my solution:
base form Bel'veth Q only damages Monsters and Minions.
I also think base form Bel'veth Q could do reduced damage to champions and with some tweeking, you could bring that 300% AD baseline rotation down to like 175-200% AD. She'd still have some 1v1 potential if she can extend the fight to have a full Q rotation + AAs, but as it stands, the damage could be toned down. In this hypothetical, almost everything about her playstyle would be preserved, but there would be an obvious counterplay; invade her. Her ganks would still be good with W cc and Q gap closing, Mid game would be fine because Ult form Bel'veth would have her Q damage preserved, and lategame you should feel powerful split pushing. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk, make her base form Q deal reduced/no damage to champions and I think we're cooking.
I really wish Riot would just admit defeat with Belveth and other champs like her. If its not good for the game remove it and try again. Its like they dont want to rework these newer champions just because it would look embarrassing so we have to deal with poorly designed champions covered in band-aid fixes.
Honestly I think they should focus her more heavily on an opportunist playstyle. Make her weaker in teamfights, and encourage her to go for picks and emphasize the voidlings for teamplay
I still find a bit annoying that, years ago, they literally removed certain jungle items (hello devourer) to avoid this power-farming since they said that they didn't like a champion to just afk-farm for 30 mins and still manage to come out of the jungle and insta-kill the whole enemy team, and then they basically brought this passive back to life in the form of this champion.
LIke Vars said, the scaling itself may not be the problem, but it still baffles me about why they somehow decided to do this again thinking it was a good idea.
Let me guess: Infinite AS scaling, more dashes than akali, hard cc, and a stance that attacks a massive area, while also being a defensive tool?
One word, Versatility. I love Bel'veth for what it can do in so many situations, gives me a lot of agency in a soloque environment and way above average carry potential even for Diamond 2+ lobbies. Even though i love it, I don't think it is balanced or fair compared to most other champions. One downside of her is that the skill ceiling is quite high therefore not everyone can reap all the benefits she gives to the player.
ok buddy
She is a duelist with short distance dashes. Some people don't know to avoid duelist and suck at spacing. Lee Sin, Vi and Jarvan are high mobility champions, short and conditional dashes is not "high mobility". She punishes bad players and champion with low mobility. I play true high mobility champions and somtimes the enemy Belveth doesn't land a single hit on me until min 20. I aknowledge the champion's strenght but she doesn't have to tool to catch slippery players and she goes down pretty quick if you cc her at the right time. I main jungle since s2 and has never considered Belveth in my top 5-10 threats. Short conditional dashes can't catch you if you have half brain.
the eclipse black cleaver cobo is the worst example u couldve chosen since black cleaver gives armor penetration which scales the pasive and stats from eclipse XD
The easiest fix would be to make her dash only move in the directions it is meant to move. Diagonally in exactly the angle as shown on her icon. So it would be the following angles:
-Northeast: 45'
-Northwest: 135'
-Southwest: 225'
-Southeast: 315'
That way it would at least be a bit easier to predict how she will move, while she still get's to have her multiple dashes.
Hey vars, what if they took off the q reset on w? It would add a fair weakness. She either needs to wait until your dash is down, or have a teammate there to jump on the enemy.
Ironically enough, I find it more impressive to make big outplays with relatively less tools than the opponent, than making an outplay because you can press more buttons that do more things
It depends on the champion though. Outplays from Aphelios, Poppy, Neeko, etc, are fun to watch and execute. But if your outplay concept is Olaf pressing R and right-clicking the enemy, or Jax winning a fight because he pressed E against an auto-attacker, it's not that impressive.
Give her 1 dash that gains a shortened CD if it hits. Keep the refresh on her knock up
just a thought but could they on hard cc make her q's go on cooldown kinda like yummi w
that way if you play perfectly you still feel strong but if not you show your weakness
Honestly, the on-hit items are a big part of the issue here. Noonquiver is a huge powerspike for her clearspeed. Every AS item for some reason does not just give attack speed but also a pretty substantial chunk of damage per auto. If you get 70 AD from Eclipse, your autos deal 70 on-hit damage, which is a large chunk of the items power budget and is accounted for in the items cost. If you buy Kraken or Botrk, you get a huge attackspeed boost, which allows you to apply your damage more often. The AS stat seems to be accounted for in the items cost, but the actual dps increase is just so much higher compared to "damage" items because you get speed AND damage. Belveth is just the most potent abuser of the stat, since her E applies those effects tons of times. If you think about it, any other AS champion is completely busted and feels like Exodia, once you have no lock down and they get a couple of items. What keeps the other champions in line is merely the fact that their designs are ancient. Yi, Kog, Kayle, maybe Sivir to an extent all suffer from the "we have no tools" syndrome. They provide nothing but damage, and are rather immobile stat checkers with barely any outplay potential. Belveth is a more interesting champion because she can actually react to situations and interact with opponents beyond just stat checking them. Yet, she will eventually stat check them ON TOP of being a skill expressive champion. She has too many passives for her own good. There would be no need for extra damage reduction on E and the fact that she spawns voidlings is just unnecessary.
Personally, I would raise the cooldown of her Q dashes and lock away the the cooldown reset only until she enters her temporary“true form” when she kills Rift/Baron. To make up for this, I would increase the damage of her Q dashes to monsters so she can still wave clear earlygame.
i think increasing the q cd and removing the q refresh on w would be a good start
I would delete her dash, it's new active places a coral from her ult, though they add 3 or 4 seconds of evolution state.
The corals placed by her Q can stay in a spot for (2 min + attack speed% x 2 seg) before disappearing.
Her ult is now on the range of Yas ult.(Slightly less)
Ult is now unlocked lvl 1 and progression works like karma, however the buff from her ult only applies if the hability is tier 2 or higher (no special form until lvl 6). Her ult now makes her invulnerable during animation to damage only on tier 4 (lvl 16) intead of the beginning of the game
She now feels more tactical, more fair on the early game, feels more beatlike, instead of buglike. She now needs to set up to travel 4 screens, witch enemies can predict and play arround. She now has to figure out a way to condition enemy position to make use of her ult is usefull.
Kassadin and Recksai mixed, witch is what the character should have been since the beginning.
Her strategy now feels like an emperor.
Her voidlings
When she gets a kill on the void monsters and their team gets buff she'd take rift top, kill the top laner and hard push and its ridiculous how she can get 2 turrets so wasily off that
Her problem is that shes a combination of two very VERY opposite classes, both hyper carry and split pusher
Belveth has the potential of pentakill your whole team at late game, like Yi, but unlike him, if she has a kill now her lane is the priority because shes pushing at mark 5 with thousands of minions from her R, like Yorick
So making a master Yi with the split potential of an Yorick is probably the main reason of why shes so unbalanced, those classes should NEVER combine in one, the flexibility of being capable to scale late as a DPS monster while always having a powerful push potential is beyond what every other single champion offers
Love that manta
Do a vid about Bard ... its crazy that you havent do it yet 😅
Gotta love how Bel'Veth's kit is already omega overloaded and Riot still had to let her ult spawn minions for absolutely no reason.
If they made her dashes targeted rather than how they are right now I think she would have a similar feel to Fiora, trying to find the fastest way to proc all 4 directions for max dps while being able to apply her scaling pressure, but unable to use it to get away or dodge attacks. Her identity as a sticky scaler is a missing niche in the game, but her Qs, W slow, and E damage reduction make her way too versatile and slippery.
As someone why main Bel'Veth she is totally not OP and not one of the strongest champions.
But on a real note, 2 reasonable ways to nerf the champion without ruining the feeling of the champion would be:
1. Remove bonus attack speed for 2 attacks after using a ability (yes, that actually is a passive of Bel'Veth) or at least do not make it stack to 6 attacks, so that you have to play around using the auto attacks more carefully (that would increase the skill sealing, and make the champion weaker early when she more relies on this AS)
2. Make her lose some bonus AS the less dashes she has up, lets say for every cardinal direction dash she has on cooldown she has 5% less bonus AS. That would make her scaling not as strong late and using up dashes to chase would be more risky.
BONUS: Rotate the dash directions by 45 degrees. Right now the dash directions are aligned with the map, so making the dashes rotated would make most chasing scenarios harder, because they would be in a odd angle. You would not be able to use 1 dash to cower max distance, instead you would be using up 2 dashes
"She is the only on hit melee champion with hard cc"
Nocturne hiding in the shadows..."darkneesssss"
They should basically limit her endless attack speed passive to when she's on ult and only when she kills epic monsters, I don't see normal a bel'veth with 5.00 attack speed by the face without any punishment
Even if they can't nerf her Q, they can remove the hard CC on her E. Just make it a strong, decaying slow or something.
Bel'veth doesn't really need to kill camp or minion to gain stack as well, just deal damage in 3 sec before camp die, this is why Bel'veth is actually a perfect support.
Well it fits her lore. Continue to thrive despite all riots nerfs. Learn , adapt, EVOLVE.
So what you're saying is she needs to be reworked? They need to nerf her q, but they can't nerf her q without breaking the champion. It means the only option is to rework her entirely, right?
Who could've forseen that making a champion with 5 dashes would make them broken. Truly something that could only be understood with 200 years of collective game design experience.
I think that the best way to nerf her will be to make the side in which you can dash smaller(like the angle so you dont have 4 90° zones but insted have like 4 60° zones so she cant basically dash 3 times in the same direction)
I feel like they should narrow the angle in which she can dash per direction. Now she can basically dash 3 times in the same direction. By nerfing the angle you would decrease her follow and catch potential without nerfing her duelling aspect.
Ya I am truly astounded that she gets as wide of an angle as she does. Its not intuitive either because every time I play against her I have to remind myself that she can still dash in the same direction again despite just using it.
belveth also has a infinite scaling drawback, her attacks deal 75% of total ad and 75% onhit dmg
Lol I almost forgot about Irelias 5 movement speed nerf 💀 Irelia mains defended that with their lives and said it was a huge nerf
The champion's design is just too toxic for me to feel bad about them removing her identity through rapid Q dashes.
I would give her a CGU that shifts her into a late game scaling vanguard/juggernaut and focuses on her ability to form a swarm of remora from monsters and enemy and ally minions (increase gold values of remora to ensure enemy champions can generate the same amount of average gold that they would against normal minions).
Her passive could be gaining the ability to add an additional remora to her swarm every ___ stacks, up to a limit. I think her Q could be preserved with slower dashes that allow her to direct her swarm, and her E as a "feeding frenzy" of her remora protecting their queen, but the W never really made sense thematically and her R should be a distinguished ability rather than a form change. I think the form change would work better as part of her scaling passive, kind of like Kayle's evolutions, but through stacks rather than level.
her q should be like master yi's where its a realllllyyy long cd but lowers with aa's and if she's still strong theres more numbres they can tweak
so you mean master yi with more range, perma W, can auto during E and deal aoe true dmg when R reset is overpower?
Yeah but dispite belveth being "infinite scaling" champion she doesnt scale that much into the late game because she is a melee squishy champion, also you should take into account that she is feast or famine champion, playing belveth from behind is the worst experience. Her real strength is early and midgame.
"playing assassins from behind is the worst" mfers when assassins get a 5 mile headstart:
this is the result of "let's make the final boss of our upcoming event a playable character in the multiplayer online battle arena game!" and didn't think twice about the consequences.
Can you do a video on Briars SEVEN STRAIGHT nerfs?
should have parts of her kit locked away, but gained through stacks like syndra
Bel veth support” double q in. Knock up then q out. Help out at void pit and siege top.
I'll never understand why they went "yea, 70% damage reduction while gaining lifesteal and rapidly attacking seems fine."
If you compare Belveth with Shyvana it's really hilarious to consider they are even the champions from the same game
I think that the best way to nerf her would be to massively increase her Q's cooldown and get rid of the reset for hitting her W. This would allow them to weaken her target access without completely killing the champion.
That would literally just kill her jgl clear?
@@felix4124 champ should be removed in general so atleast remove her clear
They could increase her Q cooldown but make it refund a % of it when dashing through an enemy. Does not hurt her clear, brings down unconditional mobility to chase or run away yet keeps skill expression in teamfights or in lane when there are possible targets present
@@Wavintoas someone who plays belveth a lot a % cooldown reduction when dashing through an enemy would make her completely broken, i dont like this video’s theme of “belveth is an infinite scaler with no weaknesses” belveth is broken bc she can snowball unbelievably fast w lethal tempo and a kill lead she do whatever she wants, the infinite scaling isnt even that big of a deal
@@Wavinto If more nerfs are needed they could also remove the cd refund when hitting the same champion twice
I'm gonna be honest. She would have been a much better AP Mid laner. Can you imagine controlling a bunch of little void fish? That would be so cool!
They should just change her ult entirely, it limits a lot what they can do with the champion when her ultimate is just a passive steroid that can only be used when she gets any kind of lead. Most of the time it isnt even used for the damage since you make yourself vulnerable whenever you used it in the middle of a teamfight unless the enemy team is cc'd, so they dont nerf her early game in any way since she needs a good early to even get her ult and do something, but then she destroys late because she has enough pressure to keep getting kills and herald/baron.
To me the worst of belveth isn't he damage, or her tankyness, or even her dashes. It's her evasion midfight granter her regen and her stupidly OP minions. ZZrot and banner of command were destroyed because OP, Yorick's minions either die in 2 shot (and don't really push) or is the ult defining him, same for heimer, etc.. Belveth ? it's an afterthough in her kit, but is totally unpushable if you are not a sivir (in which case goodluck because she WILL get to your guts)
Atk speed scaling combined with a kit that allows her to have a descent early game while being a scaling champion meaning her late game is disgustingly powerful. I don't see the problem here 😅
Her infinite scaling is the best imo. Veigar with 1500 AP still needs to hit skillshots and is balanced by cooldown. Nasus is also balanced around downtime, and the fact is, it's just one ability. Senna is a little more problematic, but her early game is weak, and she may hit hard but has to constantly kite around the fight. Belveth on the other hand, has infinite AS. She wants to be in your face, thus not needing to kite around, and her main form of damage is Autoattacks, which doesn't really have any downtime.
Low elo lifer here. I LOVE Bel'veth so much. No matter what stage of the game you're in, she's useful and can build ANYTHING. Even if im 2/13/26 down here, a single w is all the rest of my team needs.
I will not forget what they did to my boy… patch 9.13… 😢 they did pyke so dirty
So what Im hearing is they gave her all the strengths of two groups of champions without accounting for the weaknesses of those groups?
Hell yeah, bel’veth rules
One of the champions of the past 200 years.
Can anyone tell me what happens when kalista link to you and you as yuumi jump on her is link vasted?? Just a question i dont need to say that video is good,because it Always is
her E is the main issue, she outheals your dmg and does a shit ton dmg back with 1 button
Player base: please Nerf Bel veth
Riot: -5 ms, take it or leave it
Honestly i dont het how being a balance designer isnt a role at riot yet, they make cool champs but there has been so many game-breaking straight up broken champions the past 3-4 years now, its unprecedented and feels like its getting worse and worse, they need someone to have this as a focus instead of an afterthought
Can you make a video on bilgewater?
Damage reduction, true damage + stats boosts are a nightmare to deal with if uncoordinated. She's way too tanky for the absurd dmg she puts out
Still waiting for that clip of why no one plays elise
can you do qiyana pls?
E doesn't attack the nearest, but the enemy with least amount of healt! (Error in 1:50min)
Also E does more dmg the less health the enemy has...