Do you really need suspension tuning or upgrades?︱Cross Training Adventure
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2023
- crosstrainingenduro.com Do you really need suspension tuning or upgrades for your dual sport or adventure bike? Possibly not... This was an interesting ride! I am trying to wrestle the DR650 through these axle-deep woops. And I'm barely keeping the dual sport motorbike bushpig under control. If we do this sort of riding regularly it might be time for a complete suspension upgrade. Welcome to Cross Training Adventure, we are into all things dual sport and adventure on the east coast of Australia. So lets talk about adventure bike suspension. ou sold your children for tests in scientific experiments so you could afford your brand new adventure motorbike. Now you need to spend at least another thousand dollars on fin-+e-tuning that dual sport motorbike suspension. Keen on adventure riding in Australia? Check out our vids. But do you need really need to get your suspension revalved and tuned? For some of us... sure. But many of us, probably not. Our local suspension tuners sometimes refuse to do suspension tuning. If you like dual sport riding in Australia then you might like our adventure riding vids. A guy will come in with brand new motorbike and insist on having his suspensionrevalved. And the adventure bike suspension guys say no. We know this motorbike already has great suspension that will suit your weight. You are wasting your money on dual sport motorbike forks and rear shock. And in some cases the guy just goes to another suspension tuner that will take his money and wastes it there instead. If you have bucket loads of money, why not? But many of us are on a budget. And if our local suspension shop is honest and tells us we don't really need to waste money on a good adventure bike suspension setup, it might pay to take notice. There are also other options to investigate first. Have you adjusted the suspension sag, preload and damping settings yet? Check out our reviews of various adventure bikes and dual sport bikes. Have you looked at budget modifications first? If you just need a bit more damping, try a heavier fork oil. Some motorbikes like the KLR650, DR650 and V-strom still used old-fashioned rod forks and a couple of hundred dollars for Plex Valves, Intiminators, or DDC cartridges can transform the forks. Admittedly some motorbikes come with terrible suspension, but if you aren't too heavy and just ride sedately on easy smooth dirt roads then those soft springs and bouncy damping might be okay for adventure bikes. Also, keep in mind your riding skills will usually be far more important. If your suspension works reasonably well, you may find an investment in rider coaching will dramatically improve your safety and abilities. As we like to say, it's usually 80% rider and only 20% motorbike. Usually the biggest improvements come from developing your technique, with small potential improvements from your motorbike setup, tyre choice and suspension. Become comfortable standing on the footpegs, and you automatically gain a lot more suspension. If you sit on the seat in rough conditions you are just a dead lump of meat slowing the motorbike down. Adventure and dual sport riding don't have to be expensive sports. Other ways to save money? If your existing suspension is okay, defer suspension tuning until you get the forks and shock serviced. It will be much cheaper as they are pulling the components apart anyway. Remove the suspension yourself, and install it again. Of course, there are times you should get that suspension tuned the moment you buy the motorbike. If you are overweight, it could be quite dangerous if the springs and damping don't match your weight. Aggressive rider? The same again. I don't usually push the DR650 hard, but trying to ride fast on enduro tracks had me on the verge of soiling my pants frequently. Do you reguarly carry a passenger or lots of luggage? Your rear shock may need a stiffer spring and firmer damping to cope. So what's my situation? I kept my brand new DR650 completely stock for four months just to see if I really needed any modifications. I fitted Plex valves to the front forks which made a huge difference for comparatively little money. I will get a stiffer spring and revalve for the rear shock but I have deferred this until the suspension is due for a service to save some money. But sure, if I had loads of money I would get all this work done before my first ride. What has been your experience with suspension? Throw the cash around? Or just live with mediocre suspension? Keen to hear your stories. So the Cross Training Adventure focus is just get out there and have fun on two wheels. So subscribe. Or don't subscribe to our Cross Training Adventure riding channel. The main thing is get out and ride while you can with dual sport riding or Adventure riding in Australia, Canada, Vietnam, Romania and beyond! So check out Cross Training Adventure.
#crosstrainingadventure #adventureriding #adventurebikes #dualsportriding
#dualsportbikes - Sport
We published a similar vid ages ago on our enduro channel, it generated a lot of debate! We aren't saying always leave your suspension stock. But we do think it's worth trying budget mods first, and puting more emphasis on improving your riding abilities...
Welcome to our dodgy channel! In this age of social media influencers making money out of promoting crap, we are more critical of the manfufacturers than most. Check out our vids below...
Adventure bike & product reviews bit.ly/3DpEKxk
Motorbike safety & protective gear bit.ly/3Dpb438
Motorbike setup bit.ly/3Dpb6rM
DR650 project series bit.ly/3XOsPRK
And finally our most popular videos...
Best lightweight adventure bikes? czcams.com/video/lsorI76PBYc/video.html
Best midweight adventure bikes? czcams.com/video/LmhL_u8s8HA/video.html
The midlife crisis solution! czcams.com/video/LRQyEBY5YjQ/video.html
Almost every time I hear people talking about suspension upgrades like that's a "regular" mod they're always Australians...
Maybe its a culture thing?
@@arnandegans huh , could be ? or is it that they actually ride off road alot ? i thought is was usually Americans who ride off road ? those coming to dual sport and Adv bikes from an off road background
@@arnandegans seems Europeans dont have as much off road riding accessible to them as Americans or Australians ?
@@justsomedude445 Dunno, never rode a bike in Europe or the USA.
@@arnandegans Australia then ?
These are SOME OF THE BEST videos out there about trail/dual/enduro/cross motorcycles.
Congrats.
Glad you like them!
I think almost everyone is overweight for stock honda crf300l suspension..
Yes ride it, do it on your budget . Experience is worth most of your money.
At 127kg, I'm a long-time member if the "big dude club." Suspension work is just a part of buying a bike for me...
Probably won't shock anyone that my suspension shop didn't try to talk me out of the upgrade to my CRF300. Apparently I was the 12th one that month. Made a huge difference. But even for that relatively notorious bike I'd agree that if you're lighter, don't carry luggage, and don't ride gnarly trails (three strikes for me), the stock suspension is perfectly livable and even more comfortable around town.
It's a real shame that Honda doesn't at least up the spring rate and put some heavier oil in the shocks and forks. I know it's a bargain priced bike but those mods would cost nothing!
Where I live in Alberta there is no "professional" suspension people that you can hire to get your bike done right. It's more just a bunch of clowns, with unbelievably big and unwarranted egos, that throw parts at your bike with almost no knowledge of how the upgrades in suspension is going change things for you. They talk a big game but they know very little. So it's hard to spend the money on suspension upgrades when you could end up worse than where you started. And guess what! They don't care if the changes worked for you or not. They have their money and they are happy. In my opinion the PROFESSIONAL part of suspension tuning doesn't exist in Alberta. On another note I have seen a lot of riders in my time and can say that the vast majority of them don't overuse the stock suspension. Lot's of people like to get upgraded suspension work done as an additional point of posing. Trying to make other riders around them think "Oh he must be good if he needs to get his suspension done!" Rubbish. Also it seems almost with 100% accuracy that the people with the most expensive, and probably the most capable, bikes are almost always the ones that are suffering from hero syndrome. They think they are amazing but in reality they are very basic riders. It must be some sort of brain malfunction to see professional riders on a manufacturers ad campaign for an Africa Twin or KTM lineups or any high end adventure bike spec and think that if they buy one of these bikes that they will be just like that. However after they purchase these behemoths they realize they can barely turn them around let alone be of super star status. But oddly they want to project that they are an adventure bike god. But you know what? It works! Because I have seen more people impressed with fancy bikes and KLIM gear than I can count. So I guess they get the ego strokes through their posery and that's just fine for them instead of actually being talented riders. Fake it till you make it doesn't apply here. It's simply fake it.
So true in many cases! A classic case? Years ago there was a guy always chiming in with indepth comments about the best suspension setup and correct tyres for various terrains. Then one day I got to ride with him and he was barely better than a beginner lol. But he just collected the opinions of others and then parrotted these as his own... which is fine if the info is accurate I guess.
Haven't been riding much recently. But, when I was, there was a rider in our group of about 10, that was about the 10th fastest.
If we're in a group, we're racing, regardless if people admit it, or not.
One weekend, I get behind him, and can't pass him.
When he stopped, I asked what he was on. He'd had his suspension tuned. I booked my bike in as soon as I got home.
Brad Snell, Mirboo North, Victoria. Mono shock is his business name. He does a great job.
Actual professional tuning is kind of the last step, unless you are really asking a lot more out of the suspension than the manufacturer intended. My limited experience here is with my most recent bike. A few years ago, a riding buddy let me take his ktm for a rip, when I was all used to my ttr, and the extra power was nice, but the biggest wow to me was modern suspension. Fast forward a few months I bought a wr250r, the previous owner had the suspension completely worked over, but he was about 25k heavier than me, and a more aggressive rider. I rode the first summer in that bike the way it was, and while it was good, I had one hell of a time reliably getting the front wheel up, it was really hard to preload the suspension for certain things, believed I was the problem. Over the winter, picked up a set of stock shock and fork springs ( stock take offs on ebay are like 20$) got em on the bike, changed my fork oil, and all of a sudden it's a whole new bike. Front wheel comes up, my balancing is easier, log crossings are no sweat now, wold of difference in what the bike will do. So, sometimes it pays to try the cheap stuff, I'm not even worried about re-valving now.
Really interesting... going back to stock!
Stock spring rate anyways, it's still valved differently, a lot of folk on that bike go stiffer than stock on the springs because they are heavier than the 160 ish pounds yamaha planned for, but I'm not.
0:50 That meme is a gold as the shocks 🤣
😎
When Telelever first came out I remember an interview with a BMW engineer talking about the decision for such a long overlap. They had considered oval tubes at one point to prevent binding, but BMW has a long history of building telescopic forks. The nice thing about those forks is that I was easily able to swap out the type of suspension system front and rear in a campground.
anodized clickers are a great start to suspension performance!
At least 7 extra HP too!
it depends on which bike which rider and probably several other things but yes i do , if you are like me = a 230Lb multi-cyl adv biker crazed enough to want to pound it around like your playing hard enduro a 500lb touring bike then yes !! i told the suspension shop i wanted to load up with a few days worth of gear and ride USFS roads at Freeway speeds without shaking up the beers......... but yes truth be told buy a bike with good boingers to begin with and just a simple re-spring is all thats needed
Great topic and video!!
here in the states it runs around $1000 to get resprung and valved from a good shop.
I agree, First thing is what you'll be doing, 2nd is size, and stock setup would be the main variables.
I''ve had mine done on the 350 and 890, but not my 701...yet.
But I am 6'4" 220lbs so stock is a pretty noticeable difference.
As usual a great mix of pure entertaining rant and words of wisdom! Cheers!
😎👍
Over the years I've spent a bucket of money on suspension upgrades always on road bikes. The only time I was underwhelmed was when after years on tinkering the front fork on my old Softail I added another 100 mill of oil and bingo it was like a new bike that had decent suspension and not an old Harley. Still handles like a bag of shit but doesn't bang like a stump jump plough
I dont know....I spent 1500 on each of my last two bikes to have the suspension done by two really big name tuners. The only difference I could tell when I got the suspension back was that the seat seemed to sit higher from not having any money left in my wallet! This time around, I put the correct srpings for my weight in the forks and shock, on my 22 500exc. I set the sag and adjusted the clickers and its been by far the best setup I've ridden to date. Now...that being said... I mostly trail and dual sport ride so im not setting any land speed records.
Interesting how often it makes very little difference. But of course in some cases it can be huge. That's the only point of this vid... just getting riders to think about it first because I've met a lot of guys who assumed you HAD to spend $1000 on personal tuning and only realised later it made no difference at all.
Excellent video
Glad you liked it
Hey Barry. I'm 100kg+, so I always get springs to suit my weight. On my Beta 300 I was advised by another heavy Beta rider to only get a shock spring and it has proved to be the correct choice. My 300 is perfect for me. I've just bought a Beta 480 which I expect to be picking up any day now. I am going the same strategy with that so we'll see how that goes. With all of the other bikes i've owned over the years I have always done shock and fork springs. I've only ever once had valve work done which was on a 2012 WR450F. That bike had awful suspension from my perspective. Even after getting valve work done to make it more plush, which did help a bit, I never really gelled with the bike or it's suspension. I run up nearly 10000km's on that bike, and when I sold it and bought an already setup TE 510 in it's place, I was able to push that TE into corners harder in 5 minutes than I did after nearly 5 years on the WR. As a very average enduro/trail/dual sport rider of around 40 years I think that weight rated springs aside, most stock suspension is more than adequate.
Bummer about the 2012 WR450F not working well. The KYB SSS are generally seen as the best forks around. I wonder if a previous owner had made changes?
@@crosstrainingadventure Not that I'm aware of. The bike had only done 900km's when I got it and it looked as stock as a rock. Maybe it's my plodder riding style which is not suited to the best forks around? This is not such a bad thing as the best generally costs more.
I take a v-strom 650 to Glasshouse mountains .The suspension is ok I think the previous owner upgraded .
I ride a 1994 cr250 for trail riding in Moab and the Rocky Mountains. Had stock suspension for years which is known to be terrible. I didn’t really notice for many years. My fork seals blew out recently and instead of rebuilding them again I swapped the whole front end of a 2006 crf250 with some applied triples that I ended up with. These forms are noticeably better and nicer to ride on, but honestly it didn’t improve what I could do. I could do all the same obstacles with the old one, these were just a little easier and smoother. I think the people who blame their suspension for not being able to do stuff are either blind to their own poor technique or their setup is so far off from their riding style that they should probably get it retuned. I know a guy that is 220lbs that bought a bike that was setup for a short 115lbs fellow. He definitely needed suspension work. I rode with another guy who had a brand new husqvarna 300 who wouldn’t stop complaining about his suspension and got it redone. Let me tell you, it didn’t help what he could do (trust me, I was riding behind him) and actually felt a little worse to me after but to each their own. It did stop his complaining though which was nice.
Really interesting, Steven! I suspect there's often a psychological part to suspension tuning. I've spent so much it MUST make a difference! Or it feels a bit smoother so there's an assumption it's making you ride much better... but timed laps might show there's no difference at all. Of course some bikes have truly terrible suspension. But even so, a good rider will whip most of us on a crap setup because riding technique trumps all.
I own a CRF250L dual sport. The only adjustment on the stock suspension was 3/8" of thread for preload adjustment on the rear. Max preload I was blowing through half of the travel in sag alone and I weigh 170lbs. Non-rebuildable shock. I spent $1500 for new fork valving, a 2nd fork spring, and a new rear shock with full adjustments. The bike went from being slow, heavy, numb to being slow, feeling 40lbs lighter, and having good feedback in the woods. It made more of a difference than EVERY other mod I've done to the thing (and that is all of them, if I want to tinker any more I'm breaking into the engine). It depends on the bike, but in my case I wish I woulda just done the suspension first off.
Like the DR650, the little Hondas are seriously improved with suspension mods. A shame Honda doesn't at least fit heavier springs and oil from the factory.
I ran my DR650 with stock front suspension and a slightly stiffer rear spring. The rear spring was from the previous owner but works for me as I am a Large Land Mammal. I got some drop in dampener cartridges and slightly stiffer springs and a bit thicker fork oil for my front suspension. It's all been sitting in my storage unit with my DR waiting for me to have time to do the work. It hasn't felt to urgent since I have been riding my new Tiger. Well I'm feeling the itch and am taking my DR out to my buddies shop on Monday so we can finish up the suspension change. I am feeling the urge for back country fire roads, and low down dirty and mean single track this summer.
Hope the changes work well. The suspension on the DR650 is generally so bad for most riders that any change makes a big difference lol.
Great video. Great suggestions on playing with settings first. I did that for the first few rides so I knew I had the best set up possible with what I had. I then had my forks upgraded to heavier springs to suit my weight and also had cone valves fitted (It was a second hand bike and forks had never been serviced) The stock forks would dive under braking and would feel hard and unforgiving when hitting small bumps. Now the small bumps are absorbed with ease and the bike doesn’t dive under braking. That’s what you want. My initial impressions were that the front end felt 50kg lighter. The transformation was incredible. Handling was vastly improved. I would recommend everyone have their suspension tuned in one way or another. It will change your life!
Keep up the good work. Great to have objective content on here.
Glad it made a big difference in your case.
I've had my 2014 klx450r from new. Put motoard wheels on it, has since had its time trail riding now its geared and kitted out for long distance adv. I'm generally 90- 100kgs. The kawasaki still has the factory forks and rear shock with only general servicing - has always performed effortlessly.
-Will trail/ adv riders be looking at 10yr old bikes over the new ones in coming years...?
Bring back the old thumpers 😎✊
I reckon your spot on myself. Tight budget meant "the build" on my Dr650 was eight years in the making.
Spending money is no substitute for gaining and developing skills.
That said, the FFRC valving and heavier rear spring transformed my pig from a wallowing, fork flexing, nose diving ride to a more comfy and safer ride. Work done myself.
Tuning was heavier fork oil, static and riding sag set with the new rear spring and the stock shock was adjusted to give me a floating ride.
To be noted that the stock rear spring had sagged and pretty crook.
Bike is everyday transport but still get away on outback trips and weekend getaways that normally involve camping and good times.
Oh yeah. I'm still short for my weight and nearly 63 years young.
The previous guys at FFRC were suspension wizards! Fingers crossed the new mob are too. Was yours done by the new guys, Sam and Jesse? Or the previous owners with Wyatt?
Wyatt supplied the gear and I followed his advise, which was quite knowledgeable and extensive.
I did the front first, and a few paydays later, the rear spring.
Wyatt was/is one of those rare people in aftermarket industry who won't up sell a customer.
When the dollars are there, I'll give the rear shock to the new guys, but it does the job pretty well ATM Barry.
Great to hear! The previous tuner at FFRC, James, was exactly the same. There were times he refused to do suspension work, saying you already have a great setup! E.g. Anyone with Yamaha KYB SSS setups who were within the correct weight range. Funny thing is some riders just took their money elsewhere and wasted it with tuners who didn't care. I don't know what the new guys at FFRC are like... Sam and Jesse. Hopefully the same though!
"Investment Bias" so true. Have a bud that no matter what he rides, its the best available on the market....High horsepower. high top speed, super light weight (as reported by KTM/Husky)... Reality is we all put along at 30 mph max on the trails....
It's all good for a laugh! The funny thing is it's seems to be the less experienced riders who have the strongest bias. In my experience the more skilled riders lean toward all the bikes being great and the main difference is the level of skill you bring to the equation!
I got a new model 690 in 21 , had them fit springs to suit my enormous ass from new , after around 6 months and trying to keep up with the faster guys and had a few very scary bottom outs and nasty hits , many thousands later its now got a lift kit , cone valves and takes hits like red headed step child ! Best money iv spent , but im well outside the normal weight range
I had my DR650 rear shock upgraded before delivery. Spring/valving/piston kit set me back around $500. It works well (for a DR) but still lacks adjustable rebound damping. I would probably have been better off replacing the shock for better tuning as there are some good alternatives.
I'm getting my rear shock done now after two years. I put Plex valves in the forks way back then though, I find it's really the forks that let the bike down. The rear shock is adequate if you max out the preload and damping...
I generally agree with the wait and see theory but there are some cases that make sense for a quick swap.
I went from a ktm 450exc down to a crf300L for a bunch of reasons but quality of suspension was not one of them! At 180lbs without gear, water, camping gear it was definitely under sprung for me. I relatively quickly swapped out the suspension on my bike. I did however work with my local suspension guru to get the best value in suspension for me and not just oick the most popular/expensive suspension that the internet told me to buy. Huge improvement!
There are definitely some bikes that simply need mods... unless you are a featherweight who'll never push the bike hard. The CRF300L and DR650 spring to mind!
I had my 2017 Beta RR 250 revalved by MPE years ago and thought it was great. When I replaced it with a 2022 Beta RR 300 I decided to just stick with the stock suspension thinking that my thoughts on the revalve may have had some investment bias.I recently had an opportunity to take my old bike on a serious ride after riding the newer bike for about a year and the suspension behaviour was so much better. I've now booked a slot at MPE to "do whatever they did to my last bike"
It seems important with MPE to be very clear about what you want done to the bike, and you won't accept any deviation from your request and especially any highly inflated bill way beyond their quote. This has been an issue in the past for various customers.
Great video. Investment bias. Yes its true. When i get new sneakers, i can run faster and jump higher!
And my bikes are so much more powerful and handle better after I clean them!
I'm "one of those guys", I bought a stock dr with low km and got a stage one teknic suspension upgrade. I immediately went out on some moderste tracks and dropped it twice and bogged it. Now I do mostly mild trails and concentrate on learning how to stand properly, get my hand position mostly correct, and most importantly picking lines. I don't regret my decision about the suspension as I'm over 90kg in gear and carry about 5-10 kg of stuff on my day rides.
I must admit the DR650 is one of those bikes where it's almost always a good idea to get some suspension mods lol. Possibly if you are under 75kg and a beginner rider on roads and smooth dirt roads the stock suspenders are okay. But almost everyone else will benefit from some basic cheap mods at least.
@@crosstrainingadventure oh I also put a 25l tank on it
Leave it stock . I haven’t the ability to out wit it 😂
you need it only when you become advanced rider and something is holding you back from entering Erzberg Rodeo ;)
I paid for a suspension upgrade immediately after buying a second hand xr650r , however I am 214cm and 148kg bone dry first thing in the morning after a big dump, the previous owner was probably about 70kg sopping wet and had also used a shorter linkage to suit his height. After having my suspension done (which cost a pretty penny mind and I am very tight on budget but also loose on purse strings unfortunately) it went from a bike I'd be scared of taking a turn at the traffic lights too quickly for fear of bottoming out to a bike I'm scared of how capable it is with me on it compared to my skills!
Dude, your huge!! No wonder you need your suspension tuned. My bikes previous owner was huge also, good thing I'm short and fat, all I had to do was lower the seat and learn to like falling over at stop signs.
shorter links will raise the rear?
It's one those weird things with linkages... longer drops the rear, shorter raises the rear. It also affects the stiffness and damping for the early part of the stroke too. E.g. Shorter links will effectively increase damping and spring stiffness in the early part of the stroke.
@@crosstrainingadventurewoops, shows how much I know, I compared the one taken out with the original put back in and the one that was taken out was longer. Was worried for a second I'd been lead down the garden path as you describe in this video 😂
I ride a bike to see how it handles and adjust what I can before upgrading.
Not all my bikes have upgraded suspension nor do they all get the same amount of money spent on suspension, only what it needs to match my riding style, speed, and preferences. The only bike I keep stock is the TW 200 and I keep it soft and wimpy to remind me o go slow on it I rarely stand up on it and just ride the trail slowly letting the suspension handle the terrain. Other dual sport and dirt bikes have excellent suspension upgrades for fast riding over gnarly terrain.
Yep, I've had four DR650s now but I've always ridden them stock for a while just to make sure I don't over-emphasise the need for a suspension upgrade. And if any bike needs it, it's the DR lol!
Finally got a nice shock for my old KLR last year, it's had Gold Valves and springs for a while. Now it's not running so well
Man, what I'd do for a suspension shop.
What sucks is when you're a big boy, and you've never ridden a bike with a properly set up suspension so you don't know what you don't know. How can you adjust your suspension without knowing what it should feel like?
A lot of suspension shops will do the work remotely. E.g. ship your forks and shock to them, they'll ship them back. You just want to make sure they have a good reputation so they get it right first time.... or at least close!
@@crosstrainingadventure maybe? That's a pretty substantial extra cost, though, and a lot of risk. Suspension shops aren't really a thing here, and while you can bring your components into a regular shop to have springs swapped or what have you, this gets you right back to the problem I was touching on: if you don't know what your suspension should feel like, you don't know what to ask for, if there's something wrong, etc. It's a very frustrating place to find yourself in.
Comfort, control and reduced tire wear are benefits if you have fairly correct suspension settings. I used to just ride my bikes the way they came, usually with worn out suspension that wasn't great even new. But as my experience grew, and I learned more about suspension, I have gained a lot with moderate money. A 300 dollar YSS shock does not quite match a 1000 dollar Ohlins, but it is quite close, and you can ride a lot of miles for the 700 difference. I stopped buying stiffer fork springs after I learned to cut the too soft originals, of course heating, bending and grinding the cut end flat. YSS PD-valves or similar will give a bit more control without loss in comfort, but I find I can live without if I find a good compromise between compression and rebound damping. Using good fork oil with a high V.I. is vital for consistent damping. Set the preload to suit your weight, but do not forget to measure sag without a rider as well to ensure the springs are not too soft or too stiff - you can always wind up preload on a too soft spring for the correct sag with you on, but the spring will still be too soft. Fork oil should, in my experience, be replaced every 2000 km if you ride off-road and have no adjusters for altering damping, whereas normal road riding can deliver 10k km of decent performance. YMMV.
However, so far I have retained my Guzzi V9 Roamer street bike stock. It does not have great suspension, but tire wear show damping and spring rates to be fine, although lacking in comfort over sharp bumps. Good enough, though, not to waste money on until the shocks are worn out.
"I learned to cut the too soft originals, of course heating, bending and grinding the cut end flat...." I haven't heard of this before. So after cutting you heat the spring then bend it in various directions until it is the same length as before - but stiffer?
@@crosstrainingadventure Thank you for asking. A linear spring cut in two equal parts will give you two springs twice as stiff as the original. Or stacking two equal springs on top of each other will cut the spring-rate in half.
Once I have cut off the amount I want to remove, I heat the end of the spring near the cut, about 3/4 to one turn back from the end. Once the spot is glowing red hot, I use a set of pliers to lift and bend the spring to be as flat as possible, before I grind it flat on a bench grinder, making it look as the stock end of the spring.
If you search "Airsoft Tutorials - Cutting a spring" on CZcams you can see the principle, albeit with a much smaller spring.
Interesting, thanks for that! Here's the link if anyone else is interested. czcams.com/video/Z8nYDo8gXeU/video.html
Some spend for bragging rights but should jump in lake for better damping.
I did get my KTM690 suspension lowered by a professional it probably cost me money in resale value but I am a lot more confident riding it now
Great to hear, Jack. Very confidence inspiring when you can touch the ground easily. I'm very tall so it's rarely a problem. But occasionally I've stopped but my foot goes into a hole and it's a horrible feeling as the bike goes over lol.
I owned a DR for about 6 months and found it the perfect bike except: Suspension felt rough or saggy (compared to my DRZ) depending on stiffness setting. If I could put the Dizzer suspension on a DR I reckon they’d be the perfect bike
Other gripe: on long slab sections at 110ish fuel economy was the worst of any bike I’ve owned (KLR,WRR,Swm,TA650,AT,DRZ,701,GS1200)
DRZ suspension is a lot better, many actually adapt it to the DR650 and put in heavier springs and shims. Yeah the DR650 is thirsty compared to any modern fuel injected bikes. I've usually averaged 20km/l while friends who twist the throttle a lot more are getting 28km/l on their KTM 690s lol.
I would argue it’s 80% rider once you’re experienced. It’s hard to gain confidence and skills if the bike is complete crap from the start. However once the experience is there, it’s easier to use any bike even if it’s not as good.
If it makes you feel better, go ahead and keep telling yourself that. However, no matter how much of a piece of crap you're riding, there are riders who can ride it 80% better than you. Especially if you're a new rider. When riding becomes something you can't live without, you quickly learn, on any given day, the best bike is the one you're riding. You'll be surprised how quickly your skills will improve while learning to deal with that crappy bike.
@@bmotomo421 well that wasn’t my experience. If it was yours then great!
This has the makings of a really interesting debate. I can see both sides... possibly it would come down to the rider's style? E.g. a noob who is trying to learn fast and ride aggressively could actually end up getting hurt if crap suspension bounces the bike out of control. But possibly the more thoughtful noobs will ride within limits - and perhaps the crap suspension will make them work on things like body positioning more. And then they'll really reap the benefits when the suspension is upgraded? Definitely needs a longitudinal double blind study conducted by the University of Endurology.
@@LCARSADV Well, I may have underestimated the level of piece of crap you were speaking of. I was referring to two bikes that were in good riding condition, but one being clearly technologically inferior. Say maybe a 10 year old Honda CRF230F and a two year old KTM 300 XCW. Now, we're talking about a newer rider, tackling moderate level terrain. Compared to the KTM, that CRF230 is a piece of crap. On every level but one. There's one area the CRF will outshine that KTM, though. It is simply easier to ride, in spite of its inferior technology. Especially for a beginner. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. But generally, a new rider will learn quicker on less of a bike.
@@crosstrainingadventure Hahaha! The joke around here is, there's a five year old 450 motocross bike with two hours on it, in the back of every other garage, in Southern California. All belonging to new riders who were trying to protect their ego instead of their health.
Have a ktm, and it wass born withe the "great" 4cs fork, it was traded in for a old twin chamber wp fork, best thing that ever hapend to that bike. I shimed the new old fork a bit softer after a while, and now it is more me. And the clickers acturily do something, apose to the 4cs. Not that the xplore is that much better. Yes i proberly is an old fart.
The dreaded 4CS forks! Our local suspension shop pulled their first set apart and said the idea was great but they never finished the design correctly. They worked out an easy mod to make them work well, but wondered why WP didn't do this in the first place.
Now that's a good point. Buying parts giving confidence in the ride for the rider... that means a 5% improvement on the bike is a 25% increase of that 20% its the bike, and 16% increase of that it's the rider.
41% increase is huge!
Even the massive 0.04% is substantial?!?
0.2 it's the bike
0.05% rider
That's really 0.25%!!!
LoL
Reminds me of a hot tub guy that said and I quote...
"There's no heating element in our tubs, the pump itself puts out 200 degrees F, and there's two pumps so that's 400 degrees F!"
I then asked him if I had two glasses of water, each at 50 deg C and poured one into the other... would it boil? LoL
Gotta love some good maths! I figure USA math can't be as good because it's only singular, not plural? Food for thought. 🤣
@@crosstrainingadventure we grew up calling it mathematics or math for short. Only started hearing "maths" from 8 out of 10 cats does countdown" ooooOoOoOo that Rachel...
Ha! I was just wondering last night if I'd keep watching the show every night if Ms Reilly wasn't on it...
@@crosstrainingadventure favorite Sean & Rachel moment.
czcams.com/video/ZswWnbQl_P4/video.html
Compared to my ktm 500 '22, my Honda CRF300L is downright dangerous with stock suspension on repeating water dams or big bumpy sections on sketchy single track in high exposure areas. The Honda bounces around with it's crap suspension like a pogo stick and is hard to put the bike where you want it at 'fun' speeds. Clever marketing bastards hired some pros to make it look like it's easy to take those bikes out alongside true dirt bikes. Wah waaaaaah....
The KTM holds on and hooks up as needed because it's not constantly bouncing off of the trail like the Honda. I'm planning on upgrading the stock '22 ktm 500 suspension for hard adventure riding to accomodate all the extra weight for camping gear etc. while allowing me to bust off into OHV off the easy BDR routes; but, I would have to say the stock suspension, @180lbs of my weight, on the KTM is fine for me on my unloaded bike to handle most of what I can throw at it off road. I'm not take huge air or doing hard enduro, just black diamonds right now across the west in the US.
My buddies KTM 350 with upgraded suspension tracks in the gnar gnar a lot better and with more confidence than my stock 500 suspension. I'm saying all of this because I think for many who face fast approaching obstacles off road but no obstacles to their budget, consider upgrading that suspension, it can make you really planted when you need it the most.
I wonder if some manufacturers will get sued over their promotions showing pro riders going hard on cheap dual sports that were never meant to be ridden like that lol.... at least not with the stock suspenders!
I would love to try a bike with no suspension.
My bike damping is horribly adjusted, but I usually don't care and I just absorb the bump more with my legs
I am pretty sure that I would not be a lot slower through tight trail, since the limiting factor is usually my reaction time and the size of my gonads. I would be more exhausted, but no a lot slower
A really good point. I can't help feeling a lot of guys who complain about their suspension never stand on the footpegs lol. Learning to stand most of the time makes a huge difference!
ye olde timey damping-rod forks are terrible, there’s nothing you can do with most of them. upgrading to bending-shim internals is the best money you can spend on an adventure bike.
The weird thing is aftermarket guys are making a killing with Plex Valves and DDC to make rod forks almost as good as cartridge forks. I don't know why the manufacturers don't just create their own versions... manufacturered in bulk they would probably only cost about $5 to $10.
I had a dr650 that had pretty much every mod I ever wanted, unfortunately it got stolen so now I’m in the position of replacing it on a much tighter budget. As much as I loved the pumper carb, it’s way far down on the list of mods compared to suspension.
Bummer to hear that! You are probably familiar with the cheap DR650 suspension mods? We've got a video about that if it's any help. Then do the full upgrades when you can afford it? The 'BST magic' mods are a pretty good substitute for a pumper carb too....
do plex valves change the steering angle on a dr 650
Only if you somehow managed to bend your forks when fitting them!
Sounds like a good suspension pro to know - anyone in Sydney by chance?!? 😊
I reckon there'd have to be a bunch of them in Sydney! Maybe ask on the Australian adventure rider pages on Facebook?
The suspension in my 92 xt 600 is shot and needs servicing, no telling how long it went without service, but it is bad. Got a new budget shock (YSS) for the rear and I'm trying to decide right now if it is worth it to get a full cartridge for the front (600€ materials, Adreani brand) or just springs and oil (150€, Wilbers brand). The trails im riding are gnarly with large rocks everywhere, so im unsure if progressive springs will be enough. What would you say?
I assume it has rod forks, not cartridge forks? If you need stiffer springs anyway, maybe try the budget option first, although if you're riding rough terrain it could well be worth jumping straight into better options.
Also if they are rod forks remember there could be valves you just drop in that mimic cartridge forks. Much cheaper than Adreani. Examples are Cogent's DCC valves, emulators, intiminators, Plex valves. These can be pretty amazing when set up correctly.
@@crosstrainingadventure nice, thanks for the help! Your videos are awesome by the way! And yes, just simple rod forks. The problem is that production of the bike stopped quite long ago, so I couldn't find emulators, valves and so on anymore for it, probably someone would have to custom make them. I'll try springs and oil, it's what most people seem to do.
You might find a fit. I'd work out the diameter of your fork legs then see if the valves for any existing models fit the same diameter. E.g. Cogent make their valves for the old Yamaha TW200, it might just have the same diameter forks.
organ-donor.org/motorcycle-data/fork-tube-diameter-list/
If you remove your fork yourself, use a torque wrench on the triple clamp bolt when installing them back on.
An overtorqued triple clamp can pinch your fork, creating harshness and extra wear
I was under the impression that you never used front suspension since you're always on the rear, you slacking now?
I'm not much good at wheelies around corners so I drop the front usually... the forks do soften the landing lol.
Can you tell us who your local tuner is? Wouldn't mind visiting someone like them, hard to find these days
Full Force Racing Components. But they have completely new management and staff now so I'm waiting to hear reports on the work they are doing. I haven't come across any complaints yet.
Do you still recomend FFRC (without bias) ??????
They have changed hands three times now. I was well acquainted with the first mob - outstanding service. Judging by Facebook feedback the second mob were pretty good too. I haven't seen any feedback on the new management and suspension tuner yet. I have heard he only rides road bikes so I'd assume he'll need to learn quite a bit about off-road needs?
@@crosstrainingadventure mmmm. They seem to be the only one who took into account spring rates and rider weights. Was looking at DFX that Vince Strang raves about, but couldn't understand it was one size fits all.
If you are just looking at Plex Valves I don't think you can go wrong, little has changed since the original FFRC guys invented them. Using the dyno machine seems to have got them right from the start. I guess 'one size fits all' will probably work to some extent given the DR forks are so bad almost anything will be a major improvement lol.
@@crosstrainingadventure So who is this mystery suspension guru who will not take peoples money for the sake of it????? (I shall stop pestering you soon). 🙄😁
James Vemeer somehwere on the Sunshine Coast. Works from home now so cheap rates, fast turnaround, massively experienced. I've lost contact but you should be able to get his number through Goldentyre Australia or Brisbane Dirt Bike Rentals.
It seems manufacturers are providing suspension for actual muppets 😅, usually for 75 kilos with gear ! so for crf300 /250, as well as T7, suspension upgrade is a must !
It's a real shame so many manufacturers think the average rider is 75kg. To me it would make more sense to go for at least 85kg but possibly offer the option of lighter springs upon sale?
@@crosstrainingadventure yes indeed, how much would it cost to offer a 60-90 and 90-120 springs? Even if you're not fat, with some gear, a 100 kilo's isn't weird.
Do you and Adam Reimann ever ride together?
No, I think he lives at least a 12 hour drive away....
Based on these comments, the thing people should spend money on is a gym membership and a nutrition class. Unless you're 99.99th percentile for height, you should not weigh 250+ lbs.
if you newer tried anything good u think i got the goods and you can ride for cheep ... so just don't try good shit and u can ride for cheep ... that is how i do it :D
Your body and riding technique can go a long way before you can start blaming suspension inadequacies.
100%! I kept my current DR650 completely stock for six months and still did some aggressive riding on it. Sure, there was some more compensation with body positioning as it bucked around... but riding technique will trump shit suspension every day. Having said that, I've got FFRC Plex valves in the forks now which is a big improvement. And I'm getting them to the rear shock soon.
@@crosstrainingadventure Age... that'll be age catching up!
I recently restored (ground up, nut and bolt) 1981 CT125 for the fun of it. The suspension was never built to achieve anything, beyond basic movements. Anyway, I bought a multi-adjustable rear shock off Aliexpress which works really good. I also changed the front fork oil for 15wt (I think they originally had power steering fluid, so 10wt) and added a couple 11/16 sockets inside the tubes for pre-tension.
It's a different bike!
What have become?? Whatever happened to swapping out fork oil for tranny fluid (*Disclaimer*... comment not recommended for younger people using hair gel, and should immediately seek counselling)
🤔🤣
Best suspension upgrade, eat a salad and go for a run
Ha, so true! I keep pretty fit but was a bit annoyed when I developed a gut last year. Eating more salad, exercising daily, dropped 6kg and it's almost disappeared. My bikes are breathing a sigh of relief lol.