I'm Sick of Evil Superman
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Opening
0:37 - Intro
1:22 - What's Wrong with Evil Superman?
3:44 - The Good Ones
7:44 - Why?
9:26 - Conclusion
10:48 - Sponsor
12:31 - Outro
Music Used:
"Superman: Krypton's Theme | EPIC VERSION" by AreZ
• Superman: Krypton's Th...
Custom background track by troyoboyo17
This video is a review/critique protected under fair use. All clips used are transformative as they accompany my commentary and are therefore within my legal rights to use.
This video is NOT INTENDED FOR CHILDREN. Though it is possible that the topics and characters I discuss may appeal to some children, the language and visuals that I use are, at times, not appropriate for young children.
Today I drink a Baja Blast and talk about the overuse of the "Evil Superman" trope and why I think it can be harmful to the legacy of the character, but also discuss the good depictions of the archetype like the Injustice comics, Invincible, and The Boys, and why they work.
#Superman #DC #FanboyReviews #6YearsOfCap - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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The return of the king!
Hello again
Great video as always!!! he is my favorite superhero and its good to see ppl finally understand him
Evil Superman or the "evil Superman" archetype has been so overexposed that the character's reputation seem to have devolved to that as the default form, and that is incredibly sad. Amazing analysis as always .
This ad made me cackle. No judge, get that bag brother. It was just hilarious to me
I am the only non evil Super Man left on this planet lol
Wait till they make MegaMind 2 lol. I'm sure they'll find some way to make you evil.
So you're the punk I've heard about
Metro Man- I'm the last good Superman on this planet.
All Might from Boku No Hero Academia- Am I joke to you all?
'Cough'.... All Might....
@@dylansmith5206 Ah you beat me to it ✊✊
"Sheen, that's the 7th week in a row you've shown Evil Superman in class."
But Ms fowl this one has a mustache!
@@galactic85 Ew! Sheen, that mustache looks *weird!*
@@galactic85 Ms. Fowl- Sheen, you showed off evil Superman last year.
Sheen- But It's Seedless.
Ms. Fowl- Disqualified.
Literally this.
"But Ms. Fowl, you don't understand. _this_ superman is from a totally different planet."
If nothing else, I’ll give Flashpoint this. They resisted the need to make an evil Superman in an alternate universe where some of the biggest DC heroes were now villains or violent vigilantes.
Well said.
We are getting a Flashpoint movie next year.
They did so good denying it
To bad he was tortured and it wouldn't have been fair
@@bighand1530 There's already an animated Flashpoint movie.
The guy who created Injustice has even gone out to say that he doesn't believe Superman is corruptible. They just needed a premise for a video game. He didn't think people would actually become attached to the idea of Evil Superman.
This is the exact reason people need to stop labeling Omni-Man or Homelander as "Evil Superman". Homelander is not Superman, and neither is Omni Man, simple as that.
@@midoriyaweed5508 There maybe elements, but that's about it. Thor has certain similarities with Superman, but i don't see him being called Marvel's Superman.
I think the guy who made Injustice should have picked Batman instead.
@@bighand1530 thats because marvel already has superman knockoffs. Gladiator, sentry, superior, sun god, hyperion.
@@usgatlas2085 finally someone said it besides me!!! I know that they did it to make him the underdog but Batman at the end of the day would be a bigger villain than Superman
Superman: *stubs his toe* sigh...I’m think I’m gonna do a genocide. Is that okay Lois?
Lois: *just listening to a podcast on her headphones* uh huh.
Clark: alright then.
More like
Superman: *stubs his toe* sigh... I think Im gonna do a genocide. Is that okay Lois?
Lois: *wind blowing by, crickets chirping, flies buzzing*
Superman: Alright then
@@midoriyaweed5508
More like
Superman: *stubs his toe* sigh... I think I'm gonna do a genocide. Is that okay Lois?
Lois: *smoking weed and getting high*
Superman: Alright then
Why do I read all of these like family guy sketches
@@michaelhuit : It's the level everyone's been reduced to. Real life half the time feels like a Family Guy sketch. Which is why that show went from somewhat funny to downright insufferable.
@@DozerfleetProd That's very deep, but I'mma be real, I think it's because they all keep saying Lois.
Superman is without a doubt the most disrespected character in all of fiction.
He was disrespected a lot to make Batman a better hero, just so that Batman will be disrespected to push Batwoman to the pedestal.
@@nont18411 the cycle never ends.
@@warlord8106 I’m sick of 3 things - Evil Superman, Incompetent Batman and Overused Sympathetic Joker.
Spider-Man has become second
Batshitters ruined DC
It’s makes me sad to hear people say Superman is “irrelevant” or “boring”.
Must be a sad day for you then buddy
These things go on cycles. The superhero franchise needs to lay fallow for a while. We've entered the bankruptcy era that was predicted in The Strangerhood.
These things go in cycles. The superhero franchise needs to lay fallow for a while. We've entered the bankruptcy era that was predicted in The Strangerhood.
Same also show them superman and lois they might chance they're minds
I use to think of Superman like that. But that was years ago.
It feels like DC fucking _hates_ Superman more than anybody else. They got so sick of fanboys whining about how Superman is overpowered all the time so they were like "FINE. HE'S EVIL NOW."
Yeah. There was a lot of hate towards Superman during the 90s and early 2000s, because of the same reason. Also, Superman Returns flopped, and money talks. Its ultimately a cycle, if anything
DC made Superman the center of their entire universe without Superman the DC universe cannot exist as stated in Doomsday Clock so I wouldn't say they hate him
@@SuperSteph5 they don't hate Superman. DC despises the whiny fans and whiny non-fans, telling them how Superman should be.
Doomsday Clock was awesome!
@@SuperSteph5 Doomsday Clock was delayed too all hell. Came out when the DC rebirth initiative was dying out cause Dan Didio left and Scott Snyder steered the ship.
By the time it finished people were more interested in Dark Knights Metal. It’s debatable of Doomsday Clock is even canon. It was made and quickly forgotten.
Not DC, the 4th wave feminist overlords who are running the entertainment industry. When their sights are turned in some other franchise and comics and sci fic go back to being about story telling you’ll see the change.
The whole argument that “Superman is boring” needs to be dropped. Superman IMO, is one of those characters that’s only boring, if YOU make him boring. If you chose to not look deeper into his mythos and learn about him on a personal level, you’re just dismissing what makes the character great.
Exactly!, Superman is only boring when you apply surface level thinking to the character and have puss poor creative skills.
When people say superman is boring they mean being all powerful is lame
@@poober8826 Then why did Thor is such a fun character to watch? Because he has the same power scale as Superman but he is far from boring.
@@nont18411 I don't mean super man is lame I mean all powerful powers are lame
I though he was a bad character for a long time cause I didn’t understand him and then I read all star Superman and I completely get what he is now. The problem is people focus too much on the op side when in reality he is strong yes but his stories focus more on him dealing with life and being humble while dealing with the fact he is like no one else. Superman stories are more about him trying to save people than beat up some big strong monster while that happens it’s not every story like the first 2 Christopher reeves movies did it best where it’s him saving people the wonder of it and but at the same time as Clark he is trying to live his best life like getting with Lois but not as Superman as Clark instead. Maybe someone has money troubles and he has to help them out but people want him to be like Batman when he is the literal opposite of Batman he doesn’t need to punch things for the movie to be good. Plus they make him way too op where it’s like yeah he is strong but not that strong.
Making “Superman” evil at this point is just lazy writing. Too many tropes out there and it’s over done in today’s media
I think if you can execute well, then show me it!
I wanna a scenery where Batman becomes evil and Superman need to stop him
@@tariqbs4680
well usually when batman goes evil he is much more subtle about it
and would have enough prep time to make superman a non issue
and unlike all other of super-man smart villain he faces
batman is extremely humble in the sense of he knows a surefire plan could fail so he will set up dozens of backup plans
super-man (evil or not) vs batman (evil or not) basically comes to a battle of the clock
if batman gets enough time to plan he wins no doubt
and if batman dosent get enough time to plan he will have a half baked plan with few back-ups...
No, making Superman evil for no reason other than to just be evil is lazy, but if done well like with homelander then it's more interesting to see than a good superman imo
Homelander and omni man were one of the first evil supermen. Back then it was fresh can't blame them
I think the reason why there are so many evil Superman stories, or just evil heroes in general, is because Superman is essentially the product of how we view humanity. Under the right people he can be written as a hopeful and inspiring character. But because people are increasingly cynical and jaded, people try to reflect those characteristics to him as if to say: "look, even Superman acts and deal with things like the rest of us".
Maybe if more writers and companies are more willing to potray Superman in media as a positive and inspiring hero, it might shape our own perception of humanity and the culture of superheroes.
Huh. And now I’m understanding more of Doomsday Clock
This…fucking this….
What I got from that as we should be posting hires for more optimistic writers for Superman. Until then, I believe we'll be getting more 'Evil Supermen'.
@@SpideyfanX That leap is worthy of Supes himself.
My argument is that doesnt our cynical and jaded age NEED superman more than ever?
Right here with you, man. People’s obsession with Superman being evil just shows they only think about how strong he is, not what he chooses to do with it. They only see him as a pair of fists and it’s pretty sad. Chris Reeve said above all else that Supes is “a friend” and I worry constantly about losing sight of that.
Agreed
Exactly!
Agreed i hate that lot of postmodern author see him just as a set of powers(much like they see many superheroes actually)
I mean... what he chooses to do with that power is pretty much the same thing every time thou, if enemy is doing bad stuff, use fists to stop enemy within morality, issue solved, right?
Inherently I think what is more interesting is when he cannot solve an issue in the same way he is usually depicted doing... which is insanely unlikely and rare from what I’ve seen... but then again, never been that big of a superman fan
My problems with injustice is that it ruined Wonder Woman and let Harley get away with mass genoicide
That's another thing I can't stand...character is a mass-murdering psychopath but they're also quirky so we should love and admire them. :P
Exactly they want people to hate superman and wonder woman for getting fed up with murderous killers? But its cool for batman to constantly let joker barely pay for his heinous crimes and gives joker way too many chances to the point were joker literally doesnt fear batman and instead joker straight up feels comfortable around him, which only makes him want to do more crime cus he knows batman wont kill him.
@@kimmed6853 Buts you can apply that same logic to superman. If luthor is gonna keep making schemes and paying his way out of prison why doesn’t superman just kill him? If Mongol is gonna keep invading earth why doesn’t superman end him?
It’s ultimately about sticking to their beliefs despite the nature of comics book where the villain doesn’t learn a lesson and breaks out of jail.
Also villains stay dead just as long as heroes so I don’t think that’ll work. No use catching a murder charge and have them come back to life a week later.
@@johntumahab323 I think it just comes from the marketability of said character. Not necessarily because their quirky but their is a part of their character that’s endearing to the public. Sure it could speak to our society today. The 90’s anti hero phase was a precursor to this.
It might just be and I hate saying this is that all the villains kill nameless people. It’s easier to forgive someone if you don’t full grasp what they did. And even then they are “punished”, they’re sentenced and put into jail.
Given the nature of comics they either break out or Waller pulls them out. And given DCs timescale their probably in prison for a week max. At this point you might as well do something different with them as opposed to decades of the same stories.
Also not gonna lie some of these villains are kinda badass and more entertaining then the heroes at points.
@@youfirst6611 Oh yes killing them works all the time every verse Flash you see this.
As hes coming back to life all the time because hes a living paradox and the flashes sometimes kill him. This dude can bend reality time and space. Ah yes killing living paradox yeah that is going to do something or imprisoning him when there is always a version of him running in the timestream or something. He would laugh at your statement if he was real
We’ve had more versions of evil superman recently than good Superman.
In the last year we’ve got Homelander, Omni-Man, the Snydercut Superman, Suicide Squad game Superman and the upcoming Injustice animated movie
@Tanner Hutchings As in the dream that would have been the future? Still counts.
I don’t count the suicide squad game because that’s mind control or whatever and you’re trying to beat a greater enemy and despite the title, probably won’t be killing Superman. I also don’t count homelander and Omni-man because despite similarities, they’re their own characters in their own story. Nontheless I basically agree, too many people try to deconstruct Superman without actually constructing him
Omni Man has been around since the early 2000s
@@alienklein how can you not count Homelander and Omni-Man, they pretty obviously Superman inspired characters for their respective universes
@@hylianhero1921 And Superman came out in 1938, Your point is? I was talking about the animated version
Now to be FAIR Omniman was made in 2003 when the evil Superman thing was not so done to death hell at that time it had only happened a few times, nowadays YES its overused but Omniman is not just a part of the problem he preceded it.
Omni-Man in recent times has gained more popularity thanks to the Invincible show that came out earlier this year.
@@bighand1530 well of course, my point was he shouldn't be considered another evil superman rip off because he predated the trend.
not to mention his evil superman act is only temporary
Nah mate hero deconstructions were already pretty tired by then
plsu homelander was made in a comic that ran in like 2006 or somewhere around that time
Homelander for me is the only evil Superman done right, and he’s not even Superman. Homelander represents the opposite of what Clark Kent had growing up. He was raised by two loving parents in a farm who taught him to be a kind hearted man. Homelander was raised as a guinea pig in a cold lab surrounded by doctors. You can even somewhat feel sorry for Homelander at times, even though he can’t be forgiven for every horrible thing he’s done.
Homelander: Superman if he was raised by Lexcorp instead of the Kents
Omni-Man: Superman if he was raised by Zod instead of the Kents.
@@TheDONing1 that’s actually a pretty good terminology.
@@TheDONing1 Wrong! Omni Man isn't Superman. Invincible is Superman since Mark was grew up on Earth. Omni Man is more like Zod.
@@Free_Palestine_419I would argue Thragg is more like Zod and Omni-Man is just a darker SuperMan.
Evil Supermen are like Killer Clowns:
Once it was a new exciting spin on the formula, but now it's just a tired cliche that needs to rest.
The only Killer Clown I'll never get tired though is Tricky ngl.
Lets be Honest Evil Superman exists so writers can Jerk off Batman more than they already do. Because its not like uber rich people can ever be evil, right? No it has to be the guy from Kansan who just happens to be different.
I hate this trope where they give Clark those red sonic.exe eyes when he's using his laser vision. I much prefer it when he just kind of frowns and the laser comes out.
And the fact that every single piece of marketing or merchandise for the character has him using laser eyes to look scary omg I hate it
Give me a fucking smiling Superman statue please
There is a comic called "lex luthor man of steel" all told from lex's perspective and to illustrate why lex fears superman they show him with GLOWING RED EYES in every panel. And yet angry laser eyed superman has become the go to image in every modern adaptation. But apparently the red eyed look is "bad ass" so people don't care because they want superman to be more like batman or the punisher.
I just think they use it to point out that one of the abilities he's known for using for a while to stop petty criminals and build broken buildings are now being used as a real weapon to threaten people. Much like how superman is changing himself
I remember seeing a tweet that also complained about this. They pointed out that Superman should just roll his sleeves up if you want to show him getting serious, and I agree wholeheartedly.
@@troyoboyo17 There is something I want to ask you.
I thoroughly dislike it when people say that Superman is "boring" and "overpowered", when in reality he's pretty fucking cool, and even though he's an alien, his greatest superpower is his humanity, something that all of us have. Now I like Man of Steel, but why the ever loving fuck would you try and make Superman dark and gritty? Honestly, the whole "DC is Dark Comics" is such a massive misconception. If you take one look at the Justice League, you'd realize that the only dark character is Batman. That's why The Dark Knight Trilogy worked as a gritty and realistic portrayal of Batman. Just cuz it worked for one superhero doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. I just wish we got a modern Superman movie where we get the real Superman, and not a shallow metaphor for Jesus Christ.
People that say he’s overpowered think every hero story is about becoming more powerful instead of growing as a character.
And worst part is Superman is not even a Christian metaphor for Jesus he is a Jewish metaphor for Moses.
I really don't think the atmosphere reflected Superman's character in MoS. It's just an asthetic.
@shut up It was Superman just starting out. 🤦
in short ,superman's humanity holds a higher standard for most humans to follow, his perception for a better and principle life is deep something which Lex luthor has failed to grasp(which he finally gets in all star superman movie at the last and late second ).
Personally I think the reason why some people, including creators, use this trope of making Superman evil is the samre reason why some people think he is boring: They look at the powers but not at the man behind them.
Despite being one the most powerfull heroes in the comics, what makes Superman so interesting is the human drama, his relationships with Lois, his friendship with Jimmy, his job as reporter and the way he deals with these situations. He can easly save the day, but his biggest challenges are the ones he cannot solve just by puching someone. The best exemple is Tomasi's run, where Clark is now a father, raising his son and dealing with the difficults and responsabilities that come with role. He couldn't solve this problems with his powers, he deals with them by being a responsible father and good friendly person. This is what makes Superman so relatable and inspiring. Just like Peter Parker makes Spider man such a great character, is clark kent who makes Superman special.
Honestly, at this point, it's more refreshing to see a guy with so much power, but he's humble about it and wants to help others simply because it's right.
@@parkerboy795 Yeah. Not every hero needs to be a Batman wannabe. Sometimes it's good to have a hero who saves people because it's the right thing to do, like Superman, Captain America, Spider Man or, my personal favorite, Nightcrawler from the X-men
@@parkerboy795 Not to mention how good storylines with Superman tend to focus not on whether or not he's able to beat the bad guy, but whether beating up the bad guy is the right thing to do in the first place.
@@alexandrefrauches132 Steve Rogers is possibly my favorite MCU character. Him or Thor.
@@bighand1530 Same. He is in my top 5 favorite MCU heroes
5 Bucky
4 Thor
3 Scott Lang
2 Vision
1 Captain America (steve rogers)
The biggest criticism I hear about Zach Snyder's Superman is how his Randian objectivist philosophy made Superman come off as more selfish and borderline unrecognizable. This is why I think Zach Snyder should've directed a Supergirl movie. She's the objective superhero, and her reasons are fairly justifiable. Unlike Superman, Supergirl wasn't raised on Earth. She didn't grow up with humans and didn't learn Earth's social skills, so she comes off as more alien and has trouble making friends. She was forced to learn pretty quickly how to control her powers and speak English rather than learn as she grew because she was already an adult when she arrived on Earth. The only person in the whole world who she can relate to and sympathize with is Superman. She didn't choose to become a superhero because she cared about humanity; she did it because Superman (and Wonder Woman kinda) told her to. She cared more about Krypton and mourns for it more than Superman because it was all she knew for the majority of her life. In multiple comics, she leaves Earth to find somewhere else to live because she's tired of having to constantly save humans despite not understanding why they're deserving of salvation. She's not a monster. She just didn't have a Ma and Pa Kent to teach her how to be humble and love Earth. It's only natural that she'd be selfish. Snyder would've done a way better job with Supergirl than whatever it is the CW is doing.
Huh, a comment criticising Snyder while acknowledging what he was going for, and giving constructive suggestions. Nice.
Or direct the new gods movie since i feel like thats more his style
Technically Supergirl was a teenager when she landed, but I get what you’re saying.
Not even a minute in and this is already a huge W! Superman should be a character that nurtures and makes you feel like like you can be so much better but he gets assassinated by the very people who own him, it’s awful! And the trope is only cool like 3 times, it’s lame 90 percent of the time
Agreed, the idea of evil Superman has been so overexposed that the character's reputation seem to have devolved to that as the default which is has been incredibly sad to see. I hope both the JJ Abrams film and the rumored Superman game embrace the characters roots not shy away from them.
Superman is supposed to be a hero that makes his teammates feel safe.
Modern adaptations turned Superman into a hero that makes the villains smile while making his teammates shit their pants.
Indeed
It's been done to death.
@@nont18411 That isn't the case with Henry Cavill's Superman. But then again, not every Superman in recent times turned out like Henry Cavill's Superman.
Weird thing is that Superman would be the last DC hero to turn evil. The core idea of him is a man who does good because he can. Nowadays it's like a subversion of the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" idea.
(Also I think the first one to turn evil would be Wonder Woman)
Why do so many people think Wonder Woman is just this mindless, bloodthirsty warrior queen? That's Injustice's OOC writing, not the real wonder woman. She's an ambassador, she's a diplomat. Her whole deal is mercy, patience, kindness, only using strength when absolutely necessary or if you have no other options. Batman would more likely turn evil before Wonder Woman.
@@Ted_Curtis Agreed on Batman but really WW has been retconned so many times we might both be right.
@@Ted_Curtis read or watch Flashpoint
@@brandonfj5811 That's a dark alternate universe.
@@Ted_Curtis still has evil versions of superheroes like wonder woman
Double Standards Nowadays
Superman: tries his best to make the world better and Bring peace, and He Brings hope
Idiots: "UnReAliStIc"
Thor: does the exact same thing but with a Little less restrain
Also Idiots:"hErO"
It’s depressing that our most common form of Superman nowadays is evil superman
No but honestly! Not even just Superman but like the stories that are like “superhero’s in real life are nothing like the one you know and love. They have real human problems but are dangerous and bad because they also have powers coupled with those problems.” It was fun once, but like I’m so tired of superhero’s being villians lmfao.
Ehh I do like it when you can make a story that blurs the line with good and evil and just so happens to involve superheroes
@@brandonfj5811 I can see that, but I'm also not that much of a fan of super heroes being assholes just cause. Not only because it sometimes gives the idea that any nice guy can suddenly become basically Satan just because of the fact that they have powers, bit also because even when they do have something to say, the general audience don't get the point and just butcher and milked the idea until it barely resembles what it used to be.
Just look at the Killing Joke. It was a story that showed that the Joker's view of the world is a mess and also completely wrong. Yet everyone in their mother wants to use it as an argument of evil everything (mainly Superman, because of course).
Or Kraven's Last Hunt, which was attacked for apparently glorifying suicide despite the fact that Kraven's death was depicted as a tragic and sad
Same. And superhero's "in real life" has already been done. It's not a new idea, edgy writers just think it is. Hellooo? Ever heard of SPIDER-MAN?
@@nonuvurbeeznus795 Or just about any Marvel character considering they are mostly normal people who get pulled in insane circumstances.
Also it's just boringly cynical at this point. It's less about exploring what would happen "in real life" and more about angsty teenagers listening to Evanescence for the first time.
He could have used his powers for whatever he wanted, but he uses them to save the world...
That's a hero.
Fun fact: if you look up the term “superhero” you see a picture of Superman.
I'm so glad Superman and Lois exist, because with all these 'Evil Superman's out there, we need this type of shows to remind people of how amazing this character is
But doesn’t that show also have an evil superman in it? The black suit one from the other universe and now our universe superman also was turned in the recent episode
@@sal4731 Yes, but i don't think he'll stay that way, and the black suit evil Superman is i it's just a commentary on this topic
It’s been overdone to death, honestly that’s why I’m sort of glad there’s no JL 2
I have to laugh at the fact that JL was all about needing to bring him back because the world needed him... and then they tease at the end he's going to be an evil asshole anyway. Nice. 😒
@@DinoDave150 Really, a big problem with the how the DCEU handled Superman is that they keep saying he's a symbol for hope, but they show that people are afraid of him or that they should be.
@@parkerboy795 This is also the same universe that sells toys of Batman as shown in Shazam despite him being a murderous psychopath.
Really the whole DCEU is just completely fucked in terms of continuity and consistency.
@@DinoDave150 Yeah, that was weird. That felt like them admitting they were wrong for making him that way.
@@parkerboy795 They were admitting that hiring Snyder was a mistake and that continuity is up in the air just like the Fox X-Men movies.
Why is it that when people write superhero deconstruction stories its first is always "Superman but he's an asshole"? There are so many ways to deconstruct superheroes but nope! Portray Superman the way Lex Luthor imagines him to be in his head.
I’m sick of evil Clark Kent but not guys like omni man or himelander
However it they balanced it with more hopefully supermen then it would be fine
The only good superman we have now a days is Tyler hecklin (spelt wrong)from the cw,THE CW
Also I saw a meme where some guy said ye didn’t like the evil superman and was excited for superman and Lois but then one guy used a picture of superman and Lois fir the meme but it was completely out of context, as you said it was addressing the trope
Absolutely, and I do like Henry Cavill as Superman, but not completely the way he's written, and I do think CW's Superman is excellent and so is the show Superman and Lois. And I do think since Homelander and Omni-Man are relatively new characters who are given more time add further exploration, so having them as sadistic and evil figures gives them identities that may resemble Superman physicality but are not Superman to his core.
@@milkiassamuel780 same except fir b v s
@@National7575I don't understand? What do you mean?
@@milkiassamuel780 I like Henry cavill except b v s
And THAT Superman is the one who gets undervalued and undermined to prop up their version of Supergirl.
Although I HAVE heard that Superman and Lois has portrayed him MUCH better.
Kingdom Come is by far and way the best evil Superman story imo in that it keeps Clark’s character consistent with his mainline characterization while simultaneously repositioning him as an antagonist and villainous figure without him even realizing it at first. And honestly it’s in that realization that Superman stands down and turns away from his path to destruction.
Is Superman even a villain in Kingdom Come? He spares the Joker despite his crimes, breaks Shazam from his mind control and only ever thinks of killing once he think the UN killed all of the metahumans and he is talked out of it pretty quickly too. Sure, his plans are flawed but not really evil
@@vanjagalovic3621 that’s kind of the point: he isn’t a villain per se, but he does serve as an unintentional one to an extent. Superman acts with good intentions yes, but he doesn’t see how his actions are very severely and negatively impacting the world around him and specifically the unpowered civilian population. The whole point that Kingdom Come is attempting to make imo is to call out the way both the 90s dark and gritty heroes and traditional classic older generation disregard the civilians who often face the brunt of their massive destructive squabbling. The dark age heroes are constantly causing endless amounts of property damage and death with their pointless battles, while the classic heroes try and “help” the world by kinda sorta enacting a authoritarian state of absolute control because “they know best”.
Kingdom Come Superman is an Evil Superman not because he turns “evil”, but in how he started thinking he knew what was best for everyone at the cost of relating to humanity.
Superman is already cool he’s a boy scout who doesn’t love Superman guy has a heart.
@Tanner Hutchings facts
I don't, He's overpowered
@@OK-69420 He's not. There are beings in the DC universe with more power than him.
@@parkerboy795 But they never appear that much does they? But that wasn't the point. He's a member of the justice league, and he is basically Invincible to his teammates. I want to see equality amongst them and want to wonder what would happen if they went into a fight,But it's pretty clear (unless u r batman). Hell flash should easily able to beat him yet he can't. Not to mention his design isn't great (it's meh) and super strength is a boring power. As for positive,He did have great writing and I like his other powers (especially laser eye)
@@OK-69420 Yeah they do. There are tons of comics with them. Even then, his power isn't always an answer to the problem he's confronting. Yes and as member, he's supposed to be helping fight the villains, not fight them. They are equal. He doesn't act like he's above them. They're his friends and partners. And no, if he was serious, Batman wouldn't stand a chance. What do you mean? Flash is faster than him. His design is a classic. You say that like he's the only superhero with super strength. It's heat vision.
I always wished injustice was a Evil Batman story, he could have been tricked to destroy Gotham, kills joker, and descends into madness, teams up with lex to pretty much buy enough to take over the world, they find a way to kill superman, and it's up to everyone else to try and stop batman, and they can skip the universe hopping.
I think literally the only reason they chose Superman was because they wanted to main character to be the underdog. Having Superman as the good guy and Batman as the bad guy would never make it an underdog story.
Well, luck is on your side. Go read the Batman Who Laughs. His origin and all the stories he shows up.
@@enotsnavdier6867 You could easily have the relationship between Clark and Bruce carry the narrative, showing parts where Clark is visibly holding back against his best friend…his brother even. Supes would be an underdog in this case because Batman would be willing to go to places Clark usually wouldn’t consider, which isn’t too out of character considering their “fight” in Hush (and Bruce’s general willingness to take advantage of his rival’s weaknesses). All this while Lex basically keeps goading him.
@@normansmith9009 I mean, Batman who laughs seems to be an entirely different character at this point, so I don’t think that can really count
@@raycom201 it’s literally an evil batman, it counts, along with the other dozen versions that dc created the past few years
I'm with you. I'm SICK of this crap. The problem is that people either don't understand Superman and why he is who he is, or they simply HATE Superman and want to denigrate him. Superman is my favorite character, and the first thing I ever read on my own when I learned to read was a Superman comic. Having "creators" wipe their rear ends with my favorite character pisses me off.
Superman is not lame. He's also my favorite superhero, but everyone is like "that's so boring he's the most mainstream superhero" who cares he's still cool to me.
Edit: I prefer when superman is acting Human. That's why I really like Smallville. If he's acts like an alien despite being raised on earth than it's really hard to be able to relate to him
I feel “what’s so funny about truth, justice and the American way” is a story everyone should read to understand what makes Superman Superman. It also addresses the idea that having superheroes who are more dark/edgy doesn’t automatically mean better
@@christopherauzenne5023 At the end of the day the "American Way" part of that saying should be replaced, it doesn't give an optimistic outlook on what Superman is all about.
@@enotsnavdier6867 wait are you being serious or ironic?
@@christopherauzenne5023 I'm being completely serious. If you want Superman to be viewed as a good and noble figure, attaching him to the American way does the opposite. Homelander from the Boys is a far better representation of what the American way is. Outside of the US, people generally don't have a positive outlook on the country. The "American Way" to many, including myself, is about narcissism, classism, awful social systems, surveillance, crime, gun violence, slavery, genocide of natives, unprovoked wars killing millions, and meddling in or overthrowing 3rd world nations. It's best to completely remove any connections Superman has to the childish and unrealistic idea of the "American Way".
When the world has become so dark and cynical that somebody using their powers for good is considered unrealistic
Tbh it could also make people more good too
I also hate people who don't like the actual superman because he's "too good"
A bunch of sociopaths
I don't hate him, it's just that "perfect" characters are of limited interest to me. I find flawed underdog types to be more interesting.
@@LastBastian What I hate are people who use that against him. He has to be perfect because he is one of the first superheros ever made. He's supposed to represent what a hero is supposed to be in every way.
@@spunkybug3507 and even then, you could argue that Superman isnt 100% perfect
There are times where his powers arent enough to solve a problem, he might get the wrong answer to a problem from time to time
I personally, despite enjoying the good superman(sometimes), understand why people don't really like him. It's unrealistic to be as morally good as that. Real people aren't capable of being as good as they portray superman. Someone can hide behind a smiling, caring face, while doing the absolute worst we can imagine. And that's not even factoring in the insanity that would come from superpowers being added into the mix.
Tbf, the boys whole thing isn’t JUST superman being evil, it’s the community of superheros as a whole being corrupt. Invincible also had a unique story
I feel like WB have no faith on their most popular dc characters shows they just don’t get this character when any people on the internet explain it a thousand time better, hell CW’s Superman and Lois surprisingly did much better than the recent movies
Just to add to this, the very idea of making Superman, a symbol of hope and optimism, is turned evil or incompetent in order to make a one percenter look good (Batman) just doesn't sit right with me.
Even the Timmverse is guilty of this.
Given what's been discussed on Twitter today, this video couldn't have come at a better time.
Also, hell yes, Superman *is* cool
What's happening on twitter?
@@Spiderstan2000 Grant Morrison (famous comic writer) recently stated in an interview that they didn't like how Superman is often portrayed as being evil because of losing Lois Lane, saying, "I lost my mom and dad, and I'm not a tyrant! If I can handle it, so can Superman!" Or something to that effect.
@@DinoDave150 well I mean, that is kinda ridicules. I think some comics from like the early 2000s depicted that even if she died, he still wouldn't become evil.
@@RayloTheGamer Namely Kingdom Come. Which was also the basis for Brandon Routh's Superman in the CW Crisis in Infinite Earth's event, right down to the costume.
They should instead make a good pacifist punisher after his family is killed he learns violence doesn't solve anything and gives speeches about gun control.
Pfft he could have a no harm rule that’d make batman blush. Leaping in the way of cops about to shoot criminals and only using weird non agressive fighting styles that don’t harm your opponent.
that would be a hilarious robot chicken skit
@@zanerobbins3794 could be a comic run you could even have violence, flash backs. Would be a good twist on the hero turing edgy trope.
It's called Vinland Saga.
I speak for everyone or at least a certain minority in this community in saying we need more dorky momma's boy Superman in media. Like a literal golden retriever of a hero.
I don’t think a lot of people realize how dated this trope itself is either. Superman TAS did Evil/Villain Superman twice.
Couldn't have said it better myself, I just recently began to admire Superman and his incredible stories and realise why he is one of the best superheroes and if not the important superhero, and the ongoing problem of giving Superman an edgy, sadistic, dark side to his character is really beginning to become tediously repetitive, uninteresting and a complete dishonor to what the character has always stood for.
Thank goodness for Superman media like Superman and Lois, Smallville or the early DCAU Superman show and the various comics like All Star Superman or Superman Manof Tomorrow which understand the character so well and dont need to overdue the idea of Superman becoming evil too much, at least to the extent that it becomes tiresome.
This awful cliche is the symptom of putting writers that hate characters in charge of those characters. Superman has been the most common victim of this
Yeah what recent Superman Media has Superman NOT turned evil in? Besides expys like the Boys and Invincible, the Snyder Cut, Injustice, Suicide Squad game, seemingly the Sups and Lois show, all do it.
Only thing I can think of that didn't do it recently was the Superman Man of Tomorrow animated movie
superman man of tomorrow was really such a good superman movie, its a shame not many people saw it
Snyder cut is an alternate future.
Yeah... but Omni-man feels more like Prince Vegeta "masquerading" as Superman to be honest...
I kind of see it the same way. Viltrumites are kind of a fusion between Kryptonians and Saiyans rather than a direct knockoff of Kryptonians.
Can’t wait until Conquest(Nappa) comes to earth and swaps hands with Invincible(Gohan)
The issue is, the original Superman was an uplifting, ultimately optimistic story.
And we don't know how to write those in 2021.
Pandemic can do a number on society
I am also tired of evil Superman. In the same vane, I’m also tired of Batman and Superman fighting. Lex Luthor is pretty much an evil Batman. We don’t need Bats and Supes to fight ever.
Of all the evil batmen, Lex and Bane are by far the best
Even Grant Morrison say that crap is so annoying and toxic cliche.
I completely agree with everything that you're saying. DC has iconic characters like Batman and Superman but just because people want something that feels nothing like a marvel movie Warner Bros keeps making these edgy movies and iterations of characters that I just can't stand. I think the closest to a good DC shared universe is Bruce Timm and Paul Dini's DCAU.
It is.
Too bad they killed it with apokalips war.
@@Orbis618 You’re thinking of the DCAMU universe I think, but that’s awesome too
Yeah the DCAU was a blessing. They really nailed every character
I disagree. The DCAU also had quite a significant amount of Batman bias, to say nothing of writing both Superman and Wonder Woman out of character.
Personally in my opinion I am more of a fan of superman with his wife Lois lane and his son Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self hanging out and being a great family. ;)
Corporations choose to have the billionaire lunatic be the ultimate hero over the man who just wants to do the right thing. Tells you a lot.
🤯🤯🤯🤯
Dude, Batman wants to do the right thing
Finally, someone speaks out against this evil shit that's been happening to superman
To me it’s a case of diminishing returns. It was cool the first time, then still cool the next time, and then it happened again.
And again.
And again.
I just got so sick of the idea.
That’s how a lot of good ideas are ruined. Just look at the Batman who laughs.
The image of Superman holding the broken Daily Plane structure in one hand wile giving back the boy's balloon is the greatest showing of both his strength and his compassion
I give Omniman and Homelander a pass because while technically being evil superman trop they do actually have something to say beyond their evil superman aesthetic. It's like how while Joker is a killer clown trope, there's also a lot going on with everything else, so he isn't stale in spite of that. Omniman is less an Evil Superman and more what if Zod came to earth and pretended to be a superman type figure; and Homelander is if superman was raised by an evil corporation that abused him, gave him an inferiority complex, and also severely twisted his morals basically from birth. Both of these "evil supermen" do something with their concept to make them actually interesting. With that being said, I hate it when DC makes superman evil, because then it's not just some character who's inspired by superman, you just forced superman to be out of character.
So many other great stories that you didn’t mention that have an “evil Superman-like character” such as Mark Waid’s Irredeemable, Marvel’s Hyperion in Supreme Power and Squadron Supreme ‘85, and even Alan Moore’s Miracleman even tho it’s a take on Shazam-like characters.
More specifically to Supes tho, stories that challenge Superman’s morals like ‘Kingdom Come’ and Superman: Red Son also make you realize how pure and great the character can be when Clark is pushed to his limits. But you hit the nail on the head, the mainstream Superman can’t be a character that would easily turn his back on heroism, it’s his most defining characteristic and taking that away makes Superman into just another super powered character.
Someone NEEDED to say this.
Superman & Lois features a faithful depiction of the character that is navigating through parenthood and it’s really interesting.
My only issue is that they’ve introduced two evil Supermen so far: an evil Clark from an alternate Earth and a biological half-brother to our Clark that was shunned by humanity.
The only reason why they want him turn to the dark side is only because modern media is so obsessed with subverting expectations or the more modernized trend of edginess in superheroes and it’s getting very annoying
"subverting expectations" is the worst thing to have ever happend to storytelling, subverting expectations does not automatic make a story good or well told.
There’s no OP boring characters just bad writing
Exactly. An OP good guy protagonist can be interesting.
I don't think Superman should be in public domain. Imagine the anount of writers who would just slap Superman in their story and make him evil.
Like you said for every beautiful tale of man doing the right thing you'd have 3 more of Superman using his heat vision on the cat in the tree.
I get so sick of these plots. Especially when it serves just to glorify Batman or his adjacent characters. It’s so lazy and usually smacks of mindless edginess.
I also get annoyed when people claim Batman is somehow more realistic when his writers can’t get enough of making him near-omniscient and giving him unlimited time and resources. It does such a disservice to both characters by making Supes shallow and Batman an absurd Marty Stu.
If they’re going to do a deconstruction of superheroes, why don’t they make an evil version of anybody other than fucking Superman?
Like how about an evil Batman? Why don’t we crap on the idea that letting some crazy rich guy play God and beat up poor people is good for society?
We got the batman who laughs so you can read that.
I would prefer a deconstruction of lovecraft
@@abstraction6212 oh, everybody knows the man was racist.
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 ye.. plus lovecrafts great old ones from what ive researched about they are irredeemably evil characters from start to finish. Especially Cthulhu who likes destroying universe after universe and causing destruction misery and insanity just cuz he can. Plus Nyarlathotep manipulates another god to be insane and then laugh when he dies and then theirs Azathoth that wants to wake up and erase all of existence just cuz he wanted to.
Technically speaking, the only differences between Lex Luthor and an evil Batman are the combat-suits (mech-suit vs armor w/ gadget-covered belt), the locations of the underground laboratories of operations (company headquarters vs home), and the stances on combat in general (a last resort that’s beneath you vs what you live for).
I think most of my fatigue of the superhero genre isn't due to its saturation, but due to it losing sight of, well... Superheroes. You want to know what my favourite scenes out of every superhero film is, old and new, DC, Marvel or otherwise? It's Superman saving the day. It's him safely landing a plane, preventing debris from hitting someone. It's just the simple, raw act of saving a life, saving the day. I'm really kind of sick of dark and gritty assholes fighting darker and grittier assholes. I kinda just want to watch heroes be heroes.
Better than turning Superman evil is turning Zod good. Vegeta went seeking immortality and trying to kill Goku to marrying Bulma and having two kids with her. He is Zod turned good.
The fact that so many people think of Nolan as the 'Superman' of the Invincible universe shows how little people actually know about Superman. They think that Superman's defining personality trait is his strength, when it's actually the fact that he cares. Mark had much more in common with Superman than Omni Man did.
So long as people continue to think of Superman as nothing more than a 'powerful dude' they will always think he's boring, because they're essentially ignoring most of Superman's personality and what makes him great.
You are so right brother. Superman is supposed to be a beacon of hope. His image should not be destroyed by his own parodies.
I’m just really glad that in Superman and Lois we finally get to see good old fashioned smiling,happy,joking Superman back
Glad to see people who loves Superman as much as I do. I have always seen him as my moral compass. Can't remember from which story he quoted this lines "I can't save everyone because I'm not God, but I can try because I'm Superman". So awesome. Best super hero ever".
Superman is special because despite his godlike powers, he chooses to be humble, kind hearted, and gentle, that’s what makes him my favorite super hero, he grew up here on earth and went through the tribulations any child does growing up, he’s had his heart broken, he went to church, he made friends, he worked a job, but his parents brought him up with great moral values and Clark is naturally kind and honorable, that’s why I love him, he can never be evil in my eyes, making him evil completely destroys everything that makes Superman who he is, and it gets me upset that people think he’s boring when in reality he’s super charismatic and deep in his comic books.
Okay, so like I’ve been using the game for a year now and when I did my Smallville rewatch last year, it was definitely something to during the long character exposition scenes between Chloe and anyone else in the show
My mother, my father, my brother, even my dentist think superman is cool and don't get the whole evil thing.
I can't tell you how sick I am of evil superman. Don't get me wrong, I love Omniman and Homelander but I just want some Classic/All Star Superman!
I think even with the evil superman trope being used (as Clark never becomes evil at heart), Superman and Lois really felt the most like Superman has ever felt like Superman on the big screen
@@mattoreo5854 I still have to watch this show, but from what I've seen I totally agree
The only times I’ve ever genuinely liked evil Superman was in Red Son, and that’s only because I think that comic genuinely understood Superman on a level that other takes on this trope dont. Superman is a genuinely good person, his morals are entirely based on the reality that he has the ability to protect people, so he will protect people. You see many scenes in the comic where Supes will go out of his way to help even random farmers with fires or kids trapped in wells. They never let go of that genuine kindness that Superman has, and it makes the story less a ‘hurdy durr look how edgy we made Superman’ and more ‘are Superman’s values truly good or are they perceived as good because they reflect our own? If Superman acted under a different political system but held the same value for human life and helping people, would he still be seen as a hero’
My biggest problem with these “ I can’t believe Superman is Evil” stories is not just that there is too many of them (although that is a big reason). My main problem is how there’s no value in turning this hero murderous anymore, originally with this narrative of an evil Superman was a way to shock an audience and subvert there expectations and perception of the big blue Boy Scout, the man that could do no wrong, although it was a bit of a cheap shock it could have been executed extremely well since there was an element of betrayal as characters in the story contemplated how something like this could happen to a man. But now with all of the stories using the same premise and the exact same excuse of Lois dying there is no emotional weight and it comes off as even more cheap than it originally did, instead of changing with the audience’s perception of a character like Superman and using different means of telling the narrative of Superman starts killing people these writers decide to stick with the same thing over and over and over again. Not to mention it gets even worse when other people try to tell this story with their own characters, the reason why Evil Superman initially worked was because we all started of believing that Superman was the very best that humanity could ever reach meaning that there was a some sort of background that enhances the story but once people began making things like Watchmen or even a horror movie like Brightburn instead of taking the elements of Superman that made everything worthwhile like him being the symbol of hope and justice they decided to take only the artificial aspects like the flying and the super-strength and the laser eyes etc. now these stories can’t have that moment when the characters truly think and ask the question why something like this would happen and why a person like him would change, taking away all of the emotional weight and since they usually start these “Superman OCs” off evil out the gate and do no actual work in building up that betrayal or subversion. At this point this premise is now chalked up to be *A bIG StrONg mAn (or kid) ShOwED uP And n0w We hAvE tO BEAT HIM UP*
imo Superman and Lois, and Invincible (Not the show but the comic's full run) are the only recent Evil Supermen that work. With Omni-Man, he's evil because he's told he should be, but because of Earth he changes, so it's like the reverse of the evil superman trope. And in Superman and Lois, he never actually turns evil, but temporarily gives in to Morgan Edge (his brother) once he's depowered and Edge threatens his family. I only feel like the Superman and Lois version or ones like it can truly work for a Clark Kent superman character, as I don't think Superman would ever really become evil
Tbh, I blame the *Beware The Superman" trope becoming so widespread, because of all the cynical, pessimistic or edgy people out there constantly trying to make Evil Supermen or are just don't enjoy the concept of Heroes.
(although ironically Garth Ennis respects Superman which is kind of a mind boggler).
DC wants to make a Evil Superman story? Sure, go ahead, use Super Boy Prime.
Or lord superman or ultraman or maybe even overman
"Nolan isn't superman, Mark is"
Bro. You just blew my mind. Subscribing.
Superman is basically a member of Batman’s Rogue’s Gallery as of now.
One of the many reasons I have lost every ounce of respect towards batman
I honeslty feel like people today view superman as boring because of how under/poorly used he has been in recent media. For all my life characters like Batman and Spiderman have been getting tons of interesting and varied stories that explore the character in different ways. Most Average people who aren't even avid comic book fans can name multiple Batman villains and stories. Superman just hasn't received the same treatment.
The evil Superman concept is an overused bad idea that persists to this very day because people just don't seem to appreciate Superman being a good man trying to help people and do the right thing. I am honestly tired of the concept of evil Superman. It does nothing to improve upon Superman's character and it just makes you fearful of a man who had good ideals and values. I believe good Superman is best Superman.
I think the problem with evil Superman is been more about the super powers instead of the man.
I actually like Boy Scout Superman.
He has the power to destroy the entire earth yet he rather spend his time telling kids to eat their veggies and stay in school.
Agreed it misses the point of Superman and people saying he's irrelevant and boring because he's OP clearly only cares about characters fighting if your character is OP you focus on them mentally and emotionally also Superman turning evil after losing Lois untencaoly demonises men have emotions
Let's not forget that Superman's an immigrant. Making him a monster implies a xenophobic message.
Ah yes cause not a single immigrant can understand what its like to feel different in a new world after moving from your old one......
No.
I personally love being reminded every single, freaking time that Superman isn't just a chill dude who does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, but a ticking time bomb who wears pumped up kicks. Every. Single. Time. It's so rEaL.
Sarcasm duly noted.
Not even Tyler Hoechlin (the best live-action Superman TV actor since Tom Welling) avoided the “Evil Superman” trope.
Superman vs the elite is easily one of the best moral challenges Kal has ever gone through.
It also perfectly conveys the absurdity of "Superman going bad" and how it would affect the public almost instantly and negatively.
SVTE is what made me a Superman, I love love LOVE that movie.
There is an evil Superman in literally every medium, and it has been done by third parties and DC themselves... For decades. It has gotten to the point in which a genuinely good Superman is something rare and surprising, which is lame.
Superman is THE best and coolest superhero of all time and he doesn't need sexy armors or weapons to be that.
He wears blue tights so ya know that shit may not show you the goods but you can sure as hell get the outline
@@wwalton I said armor and weapon BTW, dude's physique is insane.
@@monitor-mindtheover-void6712 I know I'm referring to his classic blue superman fit shit doesn't hide much I think armoured superman is cool but not really necessary and does superman really need weapons no
@@wwalton oh ok
I actually would like to see a story where Superman becomes a politician who tries to gather influence and make the world better from there. I am sure that WayneCorps would be interested in aiding the campaign. In fact, make an entire story about a Super X Lex Luthor presidental Campaign.
He can't legally run, he's technically an illegal immigrant
@@andrews4717 I am not an American, so I do not know, what about having a criminal record like Luthor?
You when the Twitter hate comes: "Why are you booing me? I'm right!"
Personally I think the best and most natural version of "Evil" Superman is in Superman Red Son, Superman is raised in a facist state and it makes sense for his views of morality to get gradually twisted in an enviroment where that has been the normality of life. His power leads him to believe he is the only one who can create peace, when in actual fact he creates fear and control. Absolute power corrupts absolutley.
I do agree that there has been too many evil supermen iterations lately, it's almost as if the modern world has disowned the concept of a good Super person. Is that because society has changed its perspective on power and how that power would be used? Maybe we have seen too many powerful people abuse that power so no longer believe a Super person like Superman would actually remain morally good. It's an interesting topic when really thinkin about it.
Yeah mark Miller, despite sometimes going edgy in a few comics, knows what makes Superman tick and can write stories about him. Additionally his work on Jupiter’s legacy also does a great job at answering why don’t superheroes intervene in politics basically going “hey you can destroy a meteor but that doesn’t mean you can balance a check book”
Well, I would hope it would be that and not an alternative perspective...that people no longer like the idea of someone challenging them to be the better person or be able to make the right choice no matter how difficult it is, because it's too hard to try and live up to that ideal. Therefore, instead make the person who represents the ideal for humanity as flawed, biased, judgmental, and selfish as the rest of us or even more so...so now we don't feel bad about our own weaknesses or failings anymore. (Kind of like why I think Jerry Springer was so popular. Everyone loved watching the people who appeared on that show because we all knew, at our worst, we'd never be as bad as them, so we'd be able to safely judge them from a point of moral superiority.)
@@johntumahab323 my least favorite part is when people use the "nobody is perfect" as an excuse to justify there bad behavior.
I hate the idea of Superman with Wonder Woman. The romance between Superman and Diana sounds boring to me because there is no dynamic than just because they are both equal in power dynamics. His relationship with Lois always challenges humanity. It grounds him to his caring of people.