Exploring 's-Hertogenbosch w/ Mark Wagenbuur - Part One
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2023
- Next up on our Dutch adventures ride-along series, Jordan Clark and I meet up with Mark Wagenbuur aka BicycleDutch, for a personal tour around 's-Hertogenbosch and the surrounding area. This video represents part one of our explorations with Mark. In the second half of the video, we'll provide the complete map of the ride, which Mark was gracious enough to create for us.
Helpful Links (note that some may include affiliate links to help me support the channel):
- Subscribe to BicycleDutch: / @bicycledutch
- Here's my first interview with Mark: • A chronicle of Mark Wa...
- BicycleDutch blog post on 's-Hertogenbosch Mark mentioned: bit.ly/42DJQRz
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Credits: Video and audio production by John Simmerman
Music via Epidemic Sound: bit.ly/3rFLErD
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Background:
Hi Everyone! My name is John Simmerman, and I’m a health promotion and public health professional with over 30 years of experience. Over the years, my area of concentration has evolved into a specialization in how the built environment influences human behavior related to active living and especially active mobility.
Since 2010, I've been exploring, documenting, and profiling established, emerging, and aspiring Active Towns wherever they might be while striving to produce high-quality multimedia content to help inspire the creation of more safe and inviting, environments that promote a "Culture of Activity" for "All Ages & Abilities."
The Active Towns Channel features my original video content and reflections, including a selection of podcast episodes and short films profiling the positive and inspiring efforts happening around the world as I am able to experience and document them.
Thanks once again for tuning in! I hope you find this content helpful and insightful.
Creative Commons License: Attributions, Non-Commercial, No Derivatives, 2023
I love "the Dutch way" of seeing what people want to do and making it safer! Today's trip was cycling heaven. Thank you for sharing!
I had a feeling you’d like this one. 😀
One of the most buetifull Cities in the Netherlands. I am happy to study urban planning in the city.
Yay! That's awesome. Glad you found your way to the video, and I hope you enjoy the Channel. Cheers! John
Very on point remarks from Mark around 27:00. As a Dutchie I've never seen much of a problem with these red stripes which urbanist youtubers would call 'cycle gutters'. 99% of drivers ride their bikes regularly (some only to and from the bar - drunk cycling culture deserves a video of it's own ) and are inherently sympathetic towards cyclists. Which in turn makes a cyclist feel safe amongst cars.
Thanks so much for watching and for contributing to the conversation. I know when referring to a "gutter bike lane," I am referencing the fact that a 1/4 to 1/2 of the "bike lane" is the actual gutter pan, with the associated dangerous edge. Hehe 🤣 Yeah, it's pretty ugly and nothing like we are witnessing here in this clip, nor anything I saw anywhere in The Netherlands for nearly 3 weeks. Thanks again... I hope you are enjoying the Active Towns Channel. Cheers! John
It's the context that makes the difference. In other places these lanes are very narrow, we are talking about barely the width of a single bicycle, then also they are often located next to very busy and fast traffic, which has the added effect of making the lane feel even smaller because you as a cyclist feel unsafe being next to so many fast cars so you end up riding on the edge of the lane, which then introduces another problem of having to deal with actual gutters and other road infrastructure like traffic signs, advertisement signs, fire hydrants and so on.
In the Netherlands in some of the places you might find some of these roads where you are riding next to fast cars (like in this scenario), but the width of the path is still good enough to give you enough room to not feel so uncomfortable or you might find a narrow lane, but with lower speed or low traffic amounts. In the Netherlands you usually only have to deal with one of the issues if you are unlucky, but in other places you often have to deal with multiple of them, which makes them very unpleasant and dangerous.
@@Arjay404 Yes. Precisely. Well stated. 🙂
Woo Hoo and Yippie! I'm finally seeing you John ride with Mr. 'Bicycle Dutch' Mark Wagonbuur..., in his hood none-the-less..., those first bridges @ ~ 6 minutes in..., at the now turbo-roundabout were features of Bicycle Dutch over the last couple years. First a vid on the roundabout reconstruction and the first bridge..., then another vid as the second bridge popped up with the fully built-out bicycle pathway network feeding the bridges/ intersection. What is great with Mark = his extremely easy-to-understand non-wonky explanations and descriptions of what you are seeing or riding. Mark's 'seeing' and 'riding' approach goes on to his youtube offerings, where any subject matter typically has both the descriptive video what you are seeing and hy it was built or upgraded; but then there's the 'riding' video where you typically "ride the bridge in both directions" or follow the entire route or loop with zero narration just ambient sound. I enjoy both, but sometime folk like you and me and Mark j'just want to ride' with the tunage propeling your forward movement or serenading you through the twists and turns, curves n corners. THX!!! as always. :) bikeeric
I knew you'd get a kick out of this one.😀
@@ActiveTowns Double Thumbs Up!, would be more if I had them..., :) bikeeric
I like how there are many examples in this video on how to turn stroads into a bicycle friendly environment. Great learning experience for our American friends!
Yes! Exactly what I am hoping for... for STROAD busting worldwide. Thanks for watching... I hope you are enjoying the content. Cheers! John
I love what Marc says at 19:00.
Changing roads not people
Yep! And yet the irony is that when we transform our public realm it then transforms us for the better or worse.
Glad to see Mark is feeling better now
Yes, me too! He has indeed successfully recovered from his surgery last year. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
Recommendations are better than regulations, because they're easier to change when the designs improve.
Much of North America suffers from outdated regulations that didn't work out well in the long term, but we're so used to it that we sometimes don't even know that they need to change.
Having our cities zoned 80% "R-1" comes to mind.
Good point!
This is the highlight of your European trip for me, John. I love Mark’s narration, and the two of you work really well in conversation. I’m back in Den Bosch in a couple of weeks after many years, so I’ll make an effort to go and see the Turbo roundabout. Dank U wel.
Thank you so much! Yeah, for us too. It was truly an honor and pleasure to connect with and spend the day with Mark. That's great to hear you'll be heading there soon. Stay tuned... Part Two of the ride will Premiere on Wednesday. Cheers! John
What an enjoyable video!! I loved seeing the ride and hearing Mark's thoughts. It feels like we got to tag along with you all. Bedankt Mark en John!
Glad you enjoyed it! That was definitely our intent. Thanks so much for watching. I really appreciate it, and I hope you are enjoying the Channel in general. Cheers! John
A very pleasant video. And Mark is a such a good narrator !
Thanks so much! Yes, I completely agree... not to mention so incredibly kind and generous as well. Thanks so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Active Towns Channel. Cheers! John
At 44:08, If Mark had turned left he could have shown a big open air car park (not expensive) with buses (free of charge) going to the city center constantly. If one bus leaves, the next one is already waiting behind it. I use that parking area a lot if I need to be in Den Bosch on busy saturdays. A great way to keep cars out of the city center.
Wow! That's brilliant. Thanks so much for watching and for this essential addition to the conversation. I really appreciate it. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
Yes I normally show the so-called transferium but I forgot. I meant to show the one near the hospital later but that didn’t work out either.
Great ride-along with Mark.
Looking forward to part two!
Thanks for tuning in. Cheers! John
So glad this collab was able to happen! Mark seems like such a cool guy to be around. The leather jacket helps and of course the whole "had heart surgery then went right back to riding asap" thing helps too :P
I love hearing about the nuances surrounding the choices made around the infrastructure there, like why that a cycle route is red or grey and when they use each treatment for the roads. And i love the idea of less signs and more intuitive street design. I get so overwhelmed in Seattle with signs all over. Thanks for another great video!
You are quite welcome! I've known Mark for several years now, and I can honestly say he is one of the nicest and most thoughtful professionals in the biz of bicycle advocacy worldwide.
Yeah, the intuitive street design concept really builds upon the foundational work completed years ago by Hans Monderman www.pps.org/article/hans-monderman
He often said, if you treat drivers like idiots, they will learn to behave like idiots.
Obviously, there are lots of subtleties that need to be taken into consideration, and human behavior can have cultural nuances, which is why it is always important not to blindly copy and paste infrastructure (the hardware); there needs to also be thoughtful policies, procedures, and programming (the software) to help support and promote what gets put on the ground.
The good news is that humans adapt surprisingly fast.
Cheers!
John
What a lovely day! Gotta love the Netherlands in autumn.
Yes. It really was! I was so incredibly lucky with good weather during this three-week stay. Thank you so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
Great video....beautiful cities to visit.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Rosmalen, not Rosemalen! Loved the video, I have been on literally every inch of this journey a thousand times. Mark’s technical explanation on average is excellent, as expected. I hope you have enjoyed your well-deserved vegetarian lunch and am really looking forward to the next episode.
Yeah, that’s my bad. An unfortunate typo that cannot be fixed. I’ll make up for in Part Two, since it will start right there in the Rosmalen’s historic square. Thanks for watching 😀
@@ActiveTowns Too bad the unfortunate typo can no longer be fixed - that's why I mentioned it in the first place. There was a good reason why Mark knew where this road in Rosmalen was going to - it's called Raadhuisstraat - Town Hall Street! By the way - surprised to hear Mark was somewhat unfamiliar with the street map of Rosmalen 😄😄
@@reneolthof6811 Yeah, it's an unfortunate quirk of YT. The only thing I can do is cut that section of the video out completely; no corrections or other edits are allowed... So it's probably best to leave the typo as an unintentional engagement opportunity with Dutchies-in-the-know. Yeah, I'm always happy when my rides with my Dutch colleagues result in them discovering something new. It happened on my recent ride with Jason Slaughter of Not Just Bikes in Amsterdam too. Hehe 🤣
@@ActiveTowns Absolutely, leave the typo in. As a dedicated fietser (not cyclist!) I follow your channel closely. What we (almost) take for granted here in the Netherlands is more often than not news for foreigners. That always fascinates me. Funnily enough I have been on a bike all over the US: Boulder (even in nearby Nederland), Chicago, San Francisco (Golden Gate Bridge!). Despite my vast experience it was usually pretty dangerous. Any improvement on 'your' part is more than welcome!
@@reneolthof6811 Oh, wow, cool! I really appreciate you following along. Fun that you've been to Boulder and the little mountain town of Nederland. You may have already seen this one already, but I shot this video on the efforts in Boulder just before I made the trip to The Netherlands this past November: czcams.com/video/X8tKg0Vraho/video.html
Good to see one of these videos about one of the lesser well known cities of the Netherlands, away from the busy Randstad. It's usually quite ironic to see international CZcamsrs gushing over the amazing bicycle network of Amsterdam, and how safe it is, whereas most dutch people would consider Amsterdam one of the worst and most dangerous places to cycle in the whole country. Sure, they've got all the hot new infrastructure, but that's because a) their council has been Green for the past fifteen years so most of their cycling developments are brand new, and b) just very recently the situation was getting unmanageable for everybody: cyclists, pedestrians and drivers, everybody was in each other's way and it caused a lot of congestion and a lot of accidents. So something needed to be done.
Meanwhile the rest of the country has been quietly outperforming Amsterdam on traffic safety for decades.
Thanks so much for watching and for highlighting these important points... I have part two of our ride in 's-Hertogenbosch w/ Mark Wagenbuur Premiering on Wednesday and stay tuned as I have our visit to Nijmegen yet to profile as well. Cheers! John
That's a fair point as well. When we rode with Jason Slaughter of the Not Just BIkes Channel, that's what he wanted to show us: czcams.com/video/-V2U6OzMIUU/video.html
@@ActiveTowns Nijmegen, that sounds good. Very nice city, I spent a holiday there a few years back. Be sure to visit Café Moenen, nice little old dutch pub, with a bar that used to be the altar of an old roman catholic cathedral. Couple of nice little hills in that area too, fun for the more sporty-minded cyclists.
I myself grew up in Limburg, which is the Netherlands' most southern province. Also pretty hilly by dutch standards, we've even got an annual cycling race there, famous among professional cyclists and fans for its many little climbs.
If you want to check out that area, it's actually a very beautiful part of the Netherlands. The most interesting city from an infrastructure perspective would probably be Maastricht. For added context, you could hop into Belgium and visit Liège, which is only about 50km away from Maastricht. Both cities straddling the river Meuse, quite similar in size, both provincial capitals, one with dutch infrastructure, one with Walloon-Belgian infrastructure. It's a very different picture, not just for cyclists, but also for pedestrians and drivers. Could be an interesting angle for a video about the differences between the dutch approach to infrastructure vs the rest of Europe.
Anyway, I really like the videos, and I do hope these will support the efforts to change the way America does infrastructure. I really think it could change a lot more than just the way people get from a to b. It could actually change America in so many positive ways by bringing communities back together. Keep it up, you really are fighting the good fight here.
@@gladtobeangry Thank you so much for the kind words... yeah, I'll put Limburg region on the schedule for a future visit. The Nijmegen visit already happened (Nov 7th last year, I believe), so I'll have to put Café Moenen as an additional future stop. 😁
Great video.
20:06 I imagined how different that street would feel to a cyclist when the normal cars were to be replaced with giant SUV’s and pickup trucks. Quite a scary thought.
Oh, I know! It's one of the reasons why Dutch cycle network design professionals caution other cities from around the world of just blindly copying what they see in The Netherlands; so much additional context must be taken into consideration, including the proliferation of these monster-sized SUVs and trucks as well as a culture of aggressive, dangerous driving. Thanks for watching, Bart, and for this insightful addition to the conversation. Cheers! John
Wow, the first neighbourhood you passed is where I grew up - housing from the 1930s.
Ah, cool! A trip down memory lane. 😀 Thanks so much for tuning in - I hope you enjoy the Channel. Cheers! John
This is the first time i see mark in front of the camera 😆😆
Ah, does that mean you haven't seen my first interview with him about how he got into this work? czcams.com/video/3zrwO3EQM40/video.html
It was really fun hearing the origin story of BicycleDutch as a blog and channel. Cheers! John 😀
@@ActiveTowns Thanks John🙂🙃😉
If I had my choice between and app to give me a green light and a beg button that makes me wait, I would choose the app. So glad to hear Mark say edge lanes are not their favorite method. We were less comfortable when we road edge lane infrastructure.
Yep, very good insights.
That was awesome!!!!!!
Yay! So glad you liked it. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
Lovely video again, enjoyed it s lot! See you in part 2😉👋🌷
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks so much for tuning in. Cheers! John
ahhh! pfinnaly the verbiage that 'says it', @ ~ 23:00 mins in, = "suggestion-bicycle-lanes" Thank you Mark! the former american 'advisory-bike-lane' descriptor was just to wonky to mean anything..., I also like the variation John mentions = the fairly new to USA iteration = 'Yield-Street". Again, THX!
Mark again so deftly explains = ~ the 'suggestion-bicycle-lane' is really about "simply optically narrowing the width of the roadway." Why?, why?, why?, can't traffic and transportation engineers vocalize such straight-forward 8 words as mark did here ^ at the conclusion of this convo. THX! John or doing this! and you --- must cut and paste this exact convo --- as this 'application' for the reason of sheer simplicity and affordability will as you suggest soon be all over america..., so let's do it right, in the right locations, for the right reasons.
You are quite welcome!
@@ActiveTowns Okay, John, respectfully, I got ur assignment = "Suggestion-bike-lanes, a conversation with Bicycle Dutch's Mark Wagonbuur and Active Town's' John Zimmerman" = begin @ 19:00 even with Mark saying : "..., so that's also a Dutch trait...," through = 29:09 with Mark's extremely to the point conclusion = "..., has nothing to do with cycling". Done, Fine', post..., this is your mission if you wish to accept it..., :) bikeeric
25:00 As discussed, sometimes those street can work, but the one in my neighborhood really doesn't. Car volume is too high, there's parking on both sides next to the cycling lane, and the grey asphalt in the middle is too wide. So even though it does have a speed limit of 30, all the cars go faster, including me when I drive tbh. It even has speedbumps, which do help at the intersections, but it feels like it just causes some people to do a drag-race between them.
Anyway, rant over, I hope it get's reworked in the near future, it's wide enough that I bet they can make something nice out of it.
Yeah, the overall design is so important - in my mind, motor vehicle target speed should be in the 30 km range (15-17 mph), and the volume of motor vehicles should be minimized. And with parking next to the bike lane typically results in nothing more than one of the worst-case scenarios a door zone lane. Thanks so much for watching and for this contribution to the conversation. Cheers! John
@@ActiveTowns that's actually a lot more tricky. In a 30-zone with it's very little regulation, you don't need any cycling infra, because there are more than enough other reasons not to drive faster. But if a road feels like it's "only 30 due to the damn cyclists", then you get a lot of very aggressive drivers. So this design may even work better at 50 than at 30.
Mr. Mark Bicycle Dutch, do you have a favorite brand and type of bicycle you like to ride best? I would love to know which is best!
I ride a Gazelle myself. Both my bikes are that brand. Dutch brands make bicycles you can use everyday. So any Dutch brand is okay really.
Thanks for watching and for the question, Kat. Cheers! John
You came very close to my home town Oisterwijk... which has 3 of the worst roundabouts for bikes....
Oh wow! So close... I suppose we could have documented those challenging roundabouts... I'll ask Mark if he knows about them. Thanks so much for watching and for your note. I really appreciate it, and I hope you are enjoying the Active Towns Channel. Cheers! John
I see a few with "German design" (where the cycle lane doesn't make a circle, but goes slalom…), those ones?
"there is no car to confuse it with a road, so it doesn't need to be red"… never underestimate the stupidity of drivers! A village 10 km north of here has something similar and yep, they regularly catch people trying to drive there - and not even very slow.
Hehe, yeah. I think I know those drivers. Cheers! 😀
What’s the name of the app that turns traffic light green?
Here's a link to Mark's article about the app: bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/get-a-green-light-quicker-with-schwung/
Did you find a decent vegetarian lunch? :) Most places should at least have vegetarian options but in the smaller towns (which Rosmalen still is despite being incorporated) you might not have so much choice 😬
Oh yeah, they had something good... I can't for the life of me remember what I had, but it hit the spot. Hehe😂
@@ActiveTowns Haha that's the main thing ^^
Vegatarians are bees murderers, they kill more animals than meat eaters its the shame of the century, scumbags
last coment for now = "When are you John going to ride with Margaret Glazer?", or did I iss that vid as well.
I think you probably mean Dr. Meredith Glaser from the University of Amsterdam and director of the Urban Cycling Institute... yes, here's my interview with her: czcams.com/video/f4mGZ-6RHEo/video.html in it are a few clips from my ride with her in 2019. She was not available for a ride last year, but we did meet for lunch. Cheers! John
@@ActiveTowns my oops, crap, if I were not 62 years old, I think I would be there this fall getting my Masters, r U?
It's not Den Bosch, but 's-Hertogenbosch 🤪
Yep, look at the video title.
@@ActiveTowns You are the man!
Yes, but 's Hertogenbosch is unpronounceable for English speakers. So Den Bosch is fine. Perhaps it would be better to call it permanent Oeteldonk? :-)
Den Bosch is one of the two normal ways to call the town, so yes, it is right. The long version while nice is not needed.
Well, it is both, Mr. Just like Den Haag is also 's-Gravenhage. Ok, doei.