Frank Zappa - The Dawn Of The Mothers - Special Feature
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2012
- Extended interview about Frank Zappa and The Mothers Of Invention at the beginning of their careers. From the documentary film "Frank Zappa And The Mothers Of Invention In The 1960s". Buy the DVD at
www.amazon.com/Frank-Zappa-Mot...
www.amazon.co.uk/Frank-Zappa-M...
www.chromedreams.co.uk/frank-z... - Hudba
Jimmy Carl Black was always one of my favorite MOI bandmembers. Wish there were more of the Alumni doing these interviews. Would be great to heard Ian Underwood's stories.
Yeah, the indian of the group.
i know i'm 10 months too late, but just this morning I thought of your comment while watching Frank Zappa Alumni - The Band From Utopia - Unfinished Documentary. search that > on CZcams. it's an awesome watch.
I agree. I love hearing these stories. Wish we had more.
~ Bunk Gardner looks younger now than he did in 1967.
Funny, but yes, he is amazing. I saw him two years ago at Zappanale and he is just as gentlemanly too.
"it was more than a jazz job!"❄️🌎❄️
Happy Mother's Day 2021
It started smelling pretty fucking rank man!
lol!!!!!!!!!
Ya gotta remember, Frank was the composer, this was his thing, and the musician's are part of his tool box. It was the same thing with Ellington.
That doesn't discount the fact that he acted like a cunt...
Whatever and however it went down, Jimmy Carl Black's comments were very gracious, and obviously reflected his love for Frank.
We miss them both!
Agreed.
Frank may have demanded excellence from his musicians, but he also wanted humor.
well, he was the Indian of the group
Jimmy Carl Black = Awesome band member, man
David Sloan He was the indian of the group !
read his book
I talked to Jim Black after a Grandmothers show and he was just the kindest, funniest guy. Loved a smoke, too and wore my friends dumb cowboy hat to perform "Lonesome Cowboy Bert". What a night, what a show.
Met Jimmy once he turned up out of the blue to a group who were doing some zappa tunes, he was a really mellow guy, big treat to see him.
"The indian of the group"
Hi I’m jimmy Carl Black and I’m the Indian of the group
Zappa was and will be the Master in what he did. It is a pity that he is not among us.
Andrzej Yacinto but he is w us. ya need to keep passing the music torch of zappa or it goes out...
@@scottconnors8419 guess what thank You for the response but I'm not frankly speaking familiar enough with that what You wrote in the very message but I think in my "second mind" :-D it must be what it is what means that on jest w nas i powinienem utrzymywać pochodnię muzyki You must be a Poet it's not a joke Zappy lub ona zgaśnie... You're right! That's it! By the way, what do You think about learning Polish. I know, it's probably not easy but perhaps it really Is. What do You think about it?
@Jr Reyes Well You're right but better late than never don't You?
I saw the Giraffe at the Fillmore east, and it was everything JCB said it was. I had heard about it, and all of a sudden they brought it out. Amazing...
Didja get any whipped cream onya?
A facial lol
That is one funny story! And he tells it very well. Love Jimmy Carl Black.
*JCB
I remember seeing frank zappa in concert with the chambers brothers on the same bill. What a show
Zappa's best Mothers, whatever he later said. You don't miss yr water till yr well runs dry.
I have learned over the past ten years that Zappa fans imprint on the first Zappa album they hear and thereafter compare others with it. I presume from your comment that you are a fan from the 1960s.
Bunk looks younger here than he did in the 60's , how is that possible ?
~ I just saw your comment, but posted the same thing without looking first; he does seem to age in reverse.
Bunk Sweetpants Gardner.
"Not quite my tempo" - Frank Zappa
Jimmie is a gem. They were all good. Frank outgrew them, maybe not all of them, but look what he accomplished. None of the rest can say the same and despite how great they were, FZ would not have been able to do what he did without change and he had a lot of it. We might not have Belew, Vai, Adrian, Bozzio, and many others if not for him. He was the brilliance and they all know it.
Belew Adrian put the names together and ya got adrian belew
Thanks!
Even though it's now 2019 & this video is from 2012,the guys in the group still look great! Special shout out to Jimmy Carl Black,Indian of the group!!!
It's long before 2012, Jimmy Carl Black died back in 2008
Some of these guys are deceased, man. Do your research.
These pieces to camera are excellent. I'd like to buy the doc film.
Lonesome cowboy burt is quite possibly my favorite Zappa song.
I can not listen to Jimmy Carl Black talk about Zappa without starting to laugh. :D
Legend
He would’ve made the coolest neighbor.
"I never gave him any shit" LOL!
he painted houses in Austin tx w further brown,from crazy world of Arthur brown.
lung cancer got alot of em..
I recognized Jimmy Carl Black but why are the musicians not identified? Poorly done video.
In the order of appearance: Don Preston, Bunk Gardner, Jimmy Carl Black, Art Tripp.
Loved a lot of Zappa, but you could tell he'd be a Royal "Know it All" Pain in the Ass to work for !!!!
I worked for Frank Zappa while living at his house. I write about it in my memoir 1968 - 1972 although it is mis-titled 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa' (my publisher's idea). I met Frank by chance in London in 1967 and ended up in his house, the log cabin in Hollywood. The book is not about Frank's music, nor about other rock stars, but follows my own journey through that strange experience.
Hi,I'm Jimmy Carl Black,and I'm the Indian of the group.
Jimmy rules
mothermania!
JCB = What a party!
Love JCB
I'm as big a Zappa fan as any, my username can attest to that. However, one aspect of Frank's handling of the band seemed really shitty.
Zappa joined The Soul Giants after a falling out with their original guitarist. From there, he took control of the band, insisting they play original music. He was a great musician and songwriter (for the niche scene they had) and without him nobody would've ever heard of The Soul Giants. He then changed the band name to The Mothers of Invention and started rolling with recording, touring, etc. etc. He put the band, and himself, on the map. All good. Zappa was the main attraction in the band and the band knew it. It was OK because the band was moving forward - although not becoming wildly successful as The Turtles... - but they were making records, making a name for themselves and making a living.
In 1969, Zappa decided he wanted to do other projects not including The Mothers of Invention. There is audio of a conversation between he and JCB (included in the Meat Light boxed set) suggesting The Mothers going out on tour without Frank to continue earning a living. Frank said the audiences would show up because the band was great and had a name. Jimmy insisted that he was the main draw, and I agree with him.
Anyway, the shitty deal was that Zappa joined an existing band, took it over and then disbanded them just about five years later.
I saw The Grandmothers in a club performance a good while back. When the show was over, I spoke with Bunk Gardner. I asked if he missed Frank. Bunk was cordial. He said there were some things he did miss about Frank, but many reasons not to. He was very diplomatic in not wanting to completely shatter the image of my (or any real Zappa fan's) hero, so he kept it polite. I could sense the reason that any of the original Mothers would be angry with Zappa. It really never donned on me until then.
It also made me ponder that, as much as the members of The Grandmothers may have held a grudge against Zappa, they also knew that they could really only draw enough audience to mount a tour by playing HIS music. And they played it well, by the way.
Roy Estrada was part of the line-up and I got him to sing a tiny little bit of Oh, In The Sky. I try to show my real fandom by bringing arcane stuff up. Who the fuck cares about Dancin' Fool? Although that was long after the Mothers, you know what I mean...
Billy Mundi was the drummer. I honestly thought his drumming was very rudimentary. Nothing special about it, but to have an authentic Mother up there was worth seeing.
Rest in Peace, Jimmy Carl Black, Ray Collins, George Duke, Frank, any others who have passed, and thank you to everybody who was ever in The Mothers. You all changed the music world.
Saw Jimmy Black a few years ago in concert. Was good. After a few drinks me and a couple of folks started givin him a thumbs up. He shit himself. Wouldnt come out to "sign stuff". All those gigs at the Fillmore and he got freekt at a thumbs up! Still. Love JCB.
Could you explain please? Why did he react that wat to a thumbs up?
Why did you write “sign stuff” in quotes?
Yeah, pretty cryptic post. Needs elaboration.
he what??
Frank Zappa Rules
I thought the thumbnail image was Carol Kaye.
I'd like to know why John Leon Guarnera chose the name Bunk Gardner
Actually, Jimmy Carl Black's last comment is not totally true. When Frank wanted the Mothers to appear in his film, Uncle Meat, which began filming on March 30 1970, he called them together to explain, but when they were told they would not be paid for their week's work, Jim, Bunk Gardner, Roy Estrada and Art Tripp stormed out. Similarly, when Frank needed the Mothers again to play at the Pauley Pavilion, they again refused to appear. They were still smarting over the sudden and cruel break-up of the Mothers, not mentioned in this segment of the film.
Hi, Pauline!......I'm about a third into your book so far and learning quite a bit i didn't know. Great work! You must have had some great but also really tough times. Frank seemed like a tough guy to figure out. I've been a huge Frank fan since the Overnight Sensation days. Then first saw him in NYC in 1976. A GREAT performer! NY loved Frank and i think he loved us. I look forward to the rest of the book. I just wanted to say thank you for your intimate perspective from being there from the early days. All the best...........Jim
Don't blame the.This was Zappa's biggest mistake - he never had such a great band again, whatever technical prowess later band members may have had.
rose tinted glasses, man
Why should anyone work a week for free? We're they guaranteed royalties from the film? Tell us more. Frank was going to make money on the film. Why not the band?
Frank definitely wouldn't work for free. Not sure why he would expect everyone else to, lol.
What is the source for The Return Of The Son Of Monster Magnet at the very beginning??
czcams.com/video/jJ-JSHm5Sgs/video.html
Thanks!
That doesn't surprise me about Frank at all, I had him down as a exceptionally good guitar player who would tackle notes that even the best will get wrong, guitarist make mistakes all the time,they hide it well live, I miss Frank Zappa I'd love to know what he thinks of his country and leader now 😳
He knew a lot about the deep state.
Frank Zappa was & is unquestionably the greatest pop, rock, alternative, unconventional & original composer, arranger, lyricist and most esoteric, creative, experimental electric guitarist of all The music is powerful, gripping, stunning & inescapably ethereal & hypnotic. I saw him perform his original piece called “Willy the Mountain” with Flo & Eddie from “The Turtles “at the Fillmore East in the 60’s. I was dazzled and spellbound by the incredible range & the breathtaking scope of the performance. And he was never recognized for his musical artistry and the deep groove and cool things he accomplished.
@@WilsonP49 That is some praise! I presume you judge all subsequent albums in comparison with that band?
Zappa era especial desde el principio, cuando "the mothers..." no estuvo a la altura de su talento, y creatividad, debió quedar en el camino, lamento el resentimiento de alguno de ellos.
They were actually there, so they would know better it's just that, I never remember Frank ripping anyone by name. If he got any dig in it was anonymous and if he named someone it was in humor but, maybe that's just the nature of things when you have that powerful a presence at the top and the others don't want it to end.
I think what you say is correct.
i'll have a hard time to be with frank zappa and his band musically.yeah sure i don't do booze and dope his one of his policies,check however to jam with him i don't know if i could make it or not.always will admire zappa and his music.
@7:11 are you shure that it wasn't a Telefunken U47 ? ? :)
You'll love it...
With leather?
With leather?
Pedro 147 Aber die klekke nicht das sofa sofa. (don't get no gissum etc.) It's a way of life.
Are you aware that you misspelled sure but that it works in context with mentioning Telefunken U47?
Shure is a microphone manufacturer.
OK I might buy it, but is the whole thing without legends to tell who is speaking? I don’t recognize some of these guys. Ian? Bunk? Buzz? My thought is what would Frank have done with social media.
Frank obviously kept the $$, and Jimmy Carl Black ended up working in a donut shop
of course he did, it was his music that he wrote and produced it, they played it and was paid for that.
andy green yeah, that’s debatable
@@opaljk4835 What's debatable?
pauline butcher bird them being properly paid for their contributions
@@opaljk4835 $250 in 1968 is equivalent to $1800+ today. I don't think that's to be shrugged off. Most musicians couldn't get work in 1968.
He says the band never made a mistake because they were so well rehearsed and Frank made ALL the mistakes….? Yeah right. Very objective dispassionate recollection. Yeah there are live recordings of the period that say different. It was hard music to play so mistakes were made….
I recognize Jimmy, but WHO are the other guys?? Is one of them Ian underwood?
Artie Tripp and Bunk Gardner.
I heard FZ name before but never knew him. Never heard his music and only recently interest took hold after finding PMRC testimony. so he is all new info for me. I heard the name of Moon Unit and at 1 point forgot the middle name. Oh well. I understand his feelings of his name and how it's regarded in the community. I decided to not naming my kids with common names and I used to have one. I didn't want my kids going through what I did as a result so we have different experience as a result of people not listening well or not spelling well or computers not programed well to understand human speech. Most have not figured out what my new name even means yet. Most, not all. So I can still have to explain 2 of my daughters names. It's simple... when they are born just list them as baby boy or baby girl and change it later. The hospital clerk freaked out and erased my kids names on the paper they sent to the State office.
🤣🤣
I myself have to make sure its correct a couple of artists whom worked in my stidio left about 7 aga people left because perfection youlll be surprised drives people up walls why work alone lol
I recognized Jimmy Carl Black ...but can someone tell me who the other two members were
Don Preston Bunk Gardner and Artie Tripp after JCB
@@johndonohoe3778 thanks man
MOI KICK ASS
I’d be nice if I knew who each person speaking was.
0:21 is keyboard player Don Preston
1:01 is woodwinds player Bunk Gardner
1:21 is drummer Jimmy Carl Black
1:52 is drummer Art Tripp
PappyWappy43 ty
Zappa proves that musical mistakes can work
Names of these guys?
Jimmy Carl Black after Frank died was BITTER for years.... Jimmy Carl Black died in 2008... These interviews are probably close to when Jimmy and Motorhead passed away and even Ray Collins passed away... Frank died too long ago which wow did that suck in 1993 I'm still not over it 30 years later ... Ian Bunk Art Don Roy is in prison there's those members like Elliott Ingber like who gives a shit ...
Look, any band needs a megalomaniac leader to do great things. FZ, George Clinton, Jon Anderson. They pushed their musicians to the breaking point, getting things out of them that they didn’t even know they had. No control freak at the helm, then enjoy being mediocre.
No mention of FZ paying them a salary whether the Mothers made a profit or not. In 1971 Frank was pushed off the stage by a fan and breaking his leg and back. He couldn't afford to pay the guys, that's the main reason the band broke up. Ray Collins however quit before this. JCB spent most of his life playing the old Zappa tunes. Motorhead was much the same. Their lives froze ca 1972-3. Don Preston seems to be the only one with any real originality. And even he still plays the old Zappa stuff. FZ by contrast was consistently and insistently original.
BTW Roy Estrada is in prison, again, for child sex offences.
wow, didn't know about Roy, Fortunately for me, when Frank broke his leg he had some free time on his hand which led to the formation of Ruben and the Jets. I remember auditioning for the band and being scared out of my mind because I didn't read music and I wasn't really a good musician. However, I could sing and dance both important in our live acts. Although Motorhead performed on the album he refused to go on the road and thus left the group. We started with 3 horn players but only one of them joined us on the road and on the 2nd album. That saxophone player was Bill "Buffalo" Roberts, world renowned tattoo artists now working in Hollywood. I was sitting next to Frank on the bus in the Northwest when Frank got the inspiration to write his song "Don't Eat The Yellow Snow".
@@johnmartinez4129 what was you're experience with Frank like? He's my hero dude!
liam shope I only knew him for a few years but he still as supportive, caring & a total good guy to me & the guys in the band
@@johnmartinez4129 Thank you so much for the quick reply, Im extremely envious of you mr. martinez.
Amazing how uninformed some of these comments are.
The genius who makes reference to Zappa being pushed off the stage in London in ‘71 should have known that the only holdover Mothers from the late’60s group by then were Don Preston and Ian Underwood.
And if you want to spout off then check your spelling (other comments).
Frank would expect you all to do so.
~ Wasn't Ian Underwood still in the band too?
Strange. I've read all the comments and I see nothing about Frank being pushed off the stage.
pauline butcher bird
I wouldn’t be surprised if he deleted his comment. It was pretty embarrassing.
I quite enjoyed your book, by the way.
@@charleswinokoor6023 How nice of you to say. I'm pleased that I detail Gail Zappa in my book as no one else seems to have given her the time of day.
Too bad the producer of this vid did not put names up under each musician featured
Yeah agreed. The guy with the cap was Ray Collins? And there was Bunk and JCB and who was the other guy?
Lonesome Cowboy Burt...
Why Why did he pose for PR as every Character under The Sun? Including freaking Fonzie ???
Why ???
Love his Music since 1969.
Thanks WWW I see Frank as Ballerina......WTF!
For publicity. Frank Zappa was a brilliant publicist.
Why Fonzie though........
@@guidolandolt5949 Where did he pose as Fonzie?
pauline butcher bird Hi there, Sorry can’t find that photo again. But I still wonder why did a musical genius like FZ pose in so many lame costumes?
FZ as Ballerina , St. Clause etc.
Of course I never seen any of these images 10 years ago.
.... it just all fits in a big tuna sandwich with a rapper too....
I wonder if Jimmy Carl Black is the Indian of the group
yep
"I'm not black - but there sure are a whole lotta times I wish I could say, 'I'm not white'".
Music should be full of soulmate twin flame not so toxci negative just the purpose of creating different sounds different beats different temples different music different types it just doesn't make sense of toxic angry and negative support
Music expresses every emotion. Anger is valid.
Hey, at least he never beat folk up...only possessed their creative minds.
The fact is that none of the first Mothers did anything of significance after FZ moved on. That tells you all you need to know about their creative minds.
@@jayarava I disagree. Jimmy Carl Black started Geronimo Black and brought the Gardners. Art Tripp, Jim Black, Roy Estrada, and Eliot Ingber all joined Captain Beefheart's band. Roy Estrada and Lowell George were in Little Feat, and Eliot cowrote "Don't Bogard That Joint". Motorhead joined the real Ruben and the Jets. Don Preston has done some film scores. Apperently Ian Underwood has worked on the synthesizers of huge movies like Avatar and Titanic, but thay might not be true.
I have noticed that a lot of the people that worked with Frank though never got good enough footing after him. Jeff Simmons, Wild Man Fischer, Art Tripp, Billi Mundi, Ray Collins, Jim Pons, Bob Harris, etc.
Fear not, as some of them like Roy Estrada and Jim Gordon have found other ways to be famous.
It was ALWAYS Frank’s band from the very beginning. What’s this about Frank wanting to control the band. Could be a perceived betrayal of the hippie, communal idea, which it never was
Bill Keon that’s totally false. He joined the band and slowly took over. Thus it wasn’t always franks band.
Frank was always the visionary, the artistic leader and arranger. On Uncle Meat you hear a snippet of Black asking him how come they can’t get more gigs and make more money because he isn’t living very extravagantly for sure. So it also sounds like Frank was designated to get gigs and get paid. They may have started out as equals on day one, but in a short time Frank was the de facto leader, and rightly so. His genius for all aspects of the rock business and composition was light years ahead of the rest of the band, as well as most other bands. One of the few people in rock history where you can legitimately use the word genius
Who is the man in the maroon shirt, trim white beard?
Bunk Gardner
At 1:29 "(Frank's) the ONLY ONE who made any misteaks" 🤡
the real truth revealed...
Mistakes? There's no life without mistakes. I wouldn't work in a group that wasn't congenial. We "play" music; it's not brain surgery.
These guys talk about a side of Zappa that I don't like at all.
Russ Gallagher yeah but Santana does suck, just saying
Piggy from Florida?
“We in the band never made any mistakes and Frank made all the mistakes”. Really......? Doubt it. Sounds like a biased comment with bitter intent. The truth was probably mixed as it usually is. Bitterness at his perfectionism (fair) and maybe that they missed out on the later gravy train. Be honest
Well, where Zappa improvised most of his guitar solos right then and there on stage, I'm sure mistakes were made in the way of hitting a bum note. But for the written parts of some of Zappa's intricate music, mistakes had to happen here and there. Zappa himself said that nobody ever played Drowning Witch all the way through without error, so the intricate part on the album came from masterful edits from 13 or 16 different concerts. That's a master editor!
Sigh
@Geronimo Black - you must be JCB's son. I was a big fan of the band named after you and the promo items (that were given to me by Denny Walley at the time) are still pristine in my collection. Both Denny and Andy Cahan personally invited me to the memorial in Palmdale but I just couldn't get there. I would have loved to be in that audience remembering Jimmy.
Great Interviews.
See czcams.com/video/yiR1D5yc47U/video.html
for the Grandmothers Farewell Tour, Manchester, 2018.
These guys are rock legends.
DON PRESTON - with the Mothers of Invention, 1966- 1974
(piano, keyboard synthesizers)
BUNK GARDNER - with the Mothers of Invention, 1966-1969
(tenor sax, soprano sax, flute)
ED MANN - with FRANK ZAPPA, 1978 to 1988
( mallet percussion), played on 30+ Zappa albums)
This gig was 3 dates in to a 21 date/11 country European Farewell tour.
Don and Bunk were both 85 years old, so that is one hell of an itinerary!. Ed Mann was a junior at 64.
Amazing!
I have met Jimmy a few times at gigs with the Muffinmen, including possibly his last gig at Leeds,
He always said that Frank promised to make him rich and famous but he only ended up being famous.
A great guy, I also met him in the chippy before a Stockport gig, well you have to eat!!
Ruben
those who've had their careers handed to them and maintained for them are intolerant of the pros they're lucky enough to have working for them. kinda makes you sick. glad its getting told tho most of these posthumous intervs are redundant puff pieces.
Bitch, bitch, bitch. Yes, I can understand if it's not fun getting shit for playing bum notes. And I can understand the anger when
you're not allowed to make mistakes and the boss is. But that's just it: he was the boss. He wrote the music and paid The Mothers
to perform it, so he had every right to expect the quality of performance that he was paying for.
If I was the boss, I'd fire anyone who didn't do their job properly, wouldn't you? Friendship needs to take a sidestep sometimes when
you have a business to run.
hello from Massachusetts/taxachusetts- I'm Elizabeth Warren- and I'm the real Indian of the group- very high cheek-bones 1/1028 - you do the math- I am too busy forgiving student loans- ($70,000$ per year to study Philosophy etc) Frank Z. would agree- You's get what you deserve in life!
Zappa fans saw your Trumpbot posting . Give it a break. Fantisy About Bald headed JOHN!
shameful way frank treated them
kinda like the way captain treated his band, greed turns you an asshole
It wasn't nice the way Frank closed down the band, ie without any notice and payoff but he was ready to move on and his musical legacy shows that it was a correct move.
It isn’t greed. He was a perfectionist.
@@gwfhegel5045 Agreed.
@@paulinebutcherbird I saw your post in the facebook group Frank Zappa...glad to find you here again ...
@@BoomBoom-cn4km And you.
His music got less interesting as time went on !
Frank said he didnt want to be remembered after he was gone....I think he will get his way.....I've forgotten him already!
Improv Master asshole
No you haven't...
As with all bands - when Zappa fired the original musicians the music went downhill.
I have never forgiven Zappa for his obnoxious ego.
Apostrophe and those that followed were idiotic records for children.