Bird Mouth Joinery: A unique tool box
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2014
- This unique tool box is easily constructed via bird mouth joinery. Construction details about routing joints, shaping the eight-sided top and bottom, and the glue-up sequence are provided. This tool box exemplifies the underused versatility of bird mouth joinery in box construction.
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For further information on bird mouth joinery projects: www.davidhenrywoodarts.com/ - Jak na to + styl
Another wonderful video. I remember a bit about bird mouth joinery from years ago when I was just dreaming of woodworking. Now, I am truly pleased by what I see. As I said before, your attention to explanation of what you do is a true help for those of us who need to understand why before seeing the how. Please continue. Hope you enjoy the weather in San Diego. I retired from Long Beach to NW Indiana, and hope that soon I will be doing lots more work in wood in the basement in the winter when my garden is covered with snow!
A thing of beauty.
Your presentation is a pleasure to watch.
Kind words indeed! Thanks!
Love this box and thanks for the education on bird lip joints.
tubbs094 Thank you!
I swear; he looks just like my dad. Makes me wonder what things would be like if I still talked to him.
also, the lessons and instructions are very well done.
Probably one of the best woodworking videos on CZcams. Great narration to the point photography and an awesome project. Thanks for sharing this Dave.
Thanks for your very kind words, mcneile3! A great Christmas present!.
Fantastic Dave I have only recently started watching your videos I was not aware of this form of woodwork thank you for taking the time to show your skill and technique enabling others to be able to create and build beautiful products like you have done Thank you again and I hope you continue to make more videos that we can learn from
Really enjoy your videos. Just picked up the 8 sided bit, and I'm working on getting my router table insert plate installed so I can work with it. You have some great project ideas for birds mouth joinery, please keep them coming!
Very glad you like them! And let me know how the work with the 8-side bit goes. I consider that bit the most versatile of all of them.
davidhenry32 I'm going to make some bowls, and some flower pots, and some boxes. Just bought a bunch of wood. If all goes well, I'll take some pictures. I'm glad to hear that you think the 8 sided bit is the most versatile. It was the first one I bought, and I was hoping I hadn't chosen badly. :-)
Very nice Mr. David, had never seen this before.
+Jack Derouen Thanks, Jack!
Hi David thank you for your quick response You are a true gentleman I love your videos please keep them coming I am a semi retired Carpenter so i am looking for new ways of making a income as it very hard when you are over sixty but you have showed me some things that people will buy. And i can make them in my workshop So once again a big thank you!! And god bless Yours faithfully Charlie Campbell Oh yes happy st patricks day to you for the 17 of march i will have a drink in your honor *****
I have been waiting for another one of your videos. This is great. I recently built a table for my router, and the birdmouth bit is on the top of my list. Really appreciate the time you took to make this. Hope to see more in the future.
Thanks for looking at the video, and glad you liked it! I have a list of future topics; let's see if my energy holds up. They are really fun to make!
I've got to admit that it's a very attractive joint. Especially when used with contrasting corner pieces. I guess it's similar in some respects to a "locking mitre joint". Thanks.
+David Handley Thanks for your interesting insights! I agree that there is a similarity to locking miter joints. Both joints hold the work pieces tightly where you want them, very useful for assembly. Using bird mouth joints requires more parts and therefore a bit more (but easy!) work, but has the advantage of allowing multiple sides in a box and more decorative potential.
Well executed! I'm very happy to see this joint being used and hopefully appreciated once again by woodworkers.
+Old Man from Scene Twenty Four Thanks for your kind comment! Sorry I missed it earlier. It is strange that such a useful and venerable joint is so little recognized in recent times, despite the ready availability of easy-to-use router bits.
I have no experience with Bird Mouth bits so this video was right up my alley. You did a great job of explaining how to use them. I would be helpful if you would list what henges and latches you used.
Thanks for sharing a Great looking toolbox.
That came out very nice! I just got my router table and I can’t wait to try my bird mouth bits.
Hi the tooll box is beautiful thanks again .Julien Lamarche
I love your design! This toolbox is really nice! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, Stefan!
Just wanted to say I've enjoyed your videos, thanks for taking the time to share this!
Hi Jamie - Comments like yours make it all worthwhile!
That piece turned out great. And the joinery was fantastically done! Thanks firs haring.
Thanks, MRrwmac! It was fun to do.
Love your videos. Just bought a 6 and 8 sided pair of bird mouth bits. Can't wait to go at it. Thanks.
+Robert Ungar Comments much appreciated, Robert! Good luck with your BMJ projects. Questions? Contact me via my website!
That was a real pleasure to watch. Not only was the woodwork 'top notch' but the way the video was put together is very professional. It have given me ideas to try the birdmouth joints in the near future. Thank you so much David and I hope I can find more of your videos. Malcolm
Thank you for your generous comments, Malcolm! I have a CZcams channel (davidhenry32) where all 10 of my videos can be found.
That is a beautiful box! Thanks for sharing, this bird mouth join is new to me, great technique
bert kraan Thanks, Bert! As I have explored bird mouth joinery over the past several years, It has been amazing to discover how versatile it is.
Awesome work! Thanks for sharing! You're a great teacher!
Glad you enjoyed it. Many thanks!
I've seen some of your videos now, and I'm impressed. So many beautiful and practical objects. Fantastic!
Thanks, Erik! I hope that you give bird mouth joinery a try!
Nice work Dave. I like the handle formed into the top.
Lou Adzima Thanks, Lou! Glad you liked it.
Excellent presentation, clear, concise and inspirational. Thank you for taking the trouble.
Thanks, Pete!
Very nice, thank you for the video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm very intrigued by this type of joinery. I just went on Amazon and bought an eight-sided bit for my router. I can't wait to try this out. Thank you for posting such excellent videos.
Thanks for your kind comments, ponkkaa! I think you'll have a lot of fun with your BMJ bits!
Many thanks for the video, being a novice woodworker its always nice to see informative well made videos. And what a great tool box , gave me food for thought. Thank you .
Kind words, much appreciated!
Very nice!
Don Fillenworth Thanks, Don!
A really great video. The standard on how they should be made. Thank you for the content AND the editing. Well done!
Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it.
AMAZING!!!
Beautiful work, outstanding presentation...
Thanks, Simon!
Nice to learn from some one how knows. Nice clear and informative video and of cause nice result.
Thanks
Thanks, Yonatan!
Lovely work Dave greeting from Ireland And a happy chrismas to you and your family
Thanks Dublin47! I hope that your Irish Christmas was as fine as ours in San Diego!
Gran trabajo. Gracias por compartirlo
Gracias, gra643!
Very beautiful and different design, my congratulations.
How kind of you! Thanks, Leopoldo!
this should rather be used as a jewelry box than a tool box. I would hate to spoil this beauty with rugged tools and scratches during a normal workshop / onsite repair scenario. :)
+Atif Hasan Hi Atif! Thanks for the kind words and for looking at my video. I've been using the toolbox for over a year now and it does have a scratch or two. The polyurethane finish seems to help minimize the biffs and scrapes. I've since built one out of 1/2" plywood (with a simpler handle) that is just as strong and significantly lighter in weight.
nice job thanks
+lewis irvine Thanks, Lewis!
PARABENS David que belo trabalho,tambem sou marceneiro e artesao aqui no Brasil, mais infelismente nao conseguimos fresas iguais as suas e nem outras ferramentas,parabens ja vi outros videos seu e um dia farei obras de arte iguais a suas um abraço e poste mais videos ok.
Hi, Carlos! Thanks for your kind words. Hopefully, more videos are coming.
Thank you for an informative and inspirenende video.
I must buy "Bird Mouth" router bit and explore the possibilities it provides.
I look forward to more videos from you.
Thanks, Terje! If you buy those bits, I think you will have a lot of fun exploring with them.
Very nice !
Steve
Thanks, Steve!
will you be doing any more projects?
Thanks for asking, Steve. Yes, I have a list of hope-to-do videos and am about 25% done with a new one. It details napkin holder construction, a topic that I mentioned briefly in my 8-side BMJ video.
great, will be watching for sure.
Steve
Great job, love your videos, I have the router bits and just made a router table so hoping to make this box sometime soon. Love the catch you have on the box, do you have a link for that? Thanks. Andy
Very nice lid, and very nice box , but I liked the lid better.I wish you have showed us the handle construction.
Thanks for the kind words, Juan! Sorry about omitting any details on making the handle; I was worried about the length of the video and was trying to emphasize the bird mouth joinery aspect of the box construction. The handle started with a 1x3x20" piece of lytchee. After laying out the desired shape, the hand hole was roughly bored out with multiple passes with two sizes of Forstner bit, and the outside curve cut by band saw. The final handle shape was completed by use of a rasp, and a lot of sanding. The handle piece was then glued between the two pieces of canary wood that form the other parts of the lid.
davidhenry32 Thank you very much for the description of how you made the handle, your work it is certainly first class, I enjoyed you video a great deal and I am looking forward for the next one. good work.
Very nice and clean! Could you have beveled the top and bottom where the lid meets to help seal the box better when closed so as to avoid dust etc from entry and provide a tighter closure?
Thanks, Joe! I don't see why it couldn't be beveled as you suggest, with the benefit of a better seal. I've thought about putting interlocking lips on the top and bottom to ensure a rigid alignment and tight seal, but never tried it. Any thoughts on how to go about it?
That's really nice, I've never seen an 8-sided bit like that, I see you have another video on it that I'll have to watch. Your videos are well done, good job. Wondering about "gluing" the panels, shouldn't they float to allow for movement? I subbed. Mike
Thanks for the nice comments! I appreciate your looking at it. Re the glued-in panels; I was wondering if someone would call me on it. My intent was to rigidify the box, as it will be hauled around and no doubt get banged up with rough handling. As I see it, the width of the panel is borderline for requiring allowance for movement, so I took the chance. Time will tell; I'll fess up if I start to get popped joints. There is one other violation of construction conventional wisdom that may catch up with me!
I really enjoyed this video. It has a nice teacher in a classroom feel. As a newer woodworker I appreciate the clear step by step explanation. Do you think this joint would work well with thinner stock for the same project?
Thanks, Brent! Re thinner stock for the project, you're reading my mind. If I do this box again, I'll use 5/8" or possibly 1/2" stock. As is, it is rather heavy and probably unnecessarily so. I could have chosen less dense woods, too!
Thanks David, for the nice video. The box is beautiful. I was surprised that you glued the bottom all the way around and didn't allow it to "float" at all. For a drawer bottom, usually one would just fasten it in the "middle" so that the wood can expand and contract without damaging the joints. I'm curious if it has held up well since you made it? Thanks.
+Jeff Pritchard Thanks for the kind words and insightful comments. I did think about wood expansion but in the end, because I wanted the box to be maximally strong, decided to risk it. The box is not all that wide and the woods in the bottom are relatively low in movement. Also, there is some compensating expansion of the box body from the cross grain corner pieces. And I have a habit of challenging the common wisdom where it doesn't seem to make sense. On a solid wood 36" wide tabletop, for example, I would definitely make allowances for wood movement. So far, and the box has been getting some serious use, it seems to be completely intact.
Hello-- Liked all of your videos. Where did you get the band or web clamps? Lee Valley has one on their website that looks to be a lot larger than one of yours at bottom one in frame at 13:06? Most I have seen online are bigger and more bulky.
I've watched several of your videos now, and I greatly appreciate how articulate and concise you are. It's so nice not having to put up with filler words and silly catchphrases.
I want to get my feet wet by making a few of your planter boxes, but my wife would like a trunk for her horse tack -- probably 2' by 3', I'd imagine. I think a birdmouth design would be neat, but I'm worried about the weight, as you mentioned this toolbox was heavy. What do you think about this: instead of making the front, back, and sides out of solid wood, make a frame that would hold some thinner wood panels.
I also wonder how that would look with the angled corners of the birdmouth style. I worry that it would clash.
Thanks for the kind comments, Petrushka1611.
I think that your idea of using fabricated panels as staves, instead solid wood, for a larger box is terrific! As long as the frames for the panels are strong enough overall, and have enough solid wood at the edges for the bird mouth joints, it should work just fine. And I don't see why there should be a stylistic clash at the corners; that would depend on how you design the panels. I can see both an inexpensive outer shell of veneered ply or something fancier like solid door panels built with thinner stock.
I'd be delighted to hear how it turns out!
If I end up making something instead of just talking big, I'll definitely let you know. My wife decided to go with a plastic trunk, since it will be occasionally thrown in the back of a truck and knocked around, but I'm now thinking about making a hope chest for my niece.
how do i comment i really like your videos Julien
Can you use two different thickness to make this tool box?
I want to have longer ends & corners parts to make a stool with a tool box built into it.
So I want the top, ends & corners to be 1.5 inches thick, but the bottom & sides to be 3/4 thick, so as to lighten the over all weight of the stool-toolbox. If I have to, I will make all the thickness the same, but I wondered if you had already tried this.
I am not sure how to open the box, may use a sliding dovetail lid or a side drawer, or a flip down side panel.
I may be able to use a sliding dovetail side panel, this will be worked out in the cheap prototype.
David, I really appreciate your teaching style. I hate when others show routing or cutting every single piece. I think one or two is more than enough. I have to say I would have liked to see a little more info on the handle shaping. I have alot of trouble making free form items and would love any tips about this aspect. I'm wondering couldn't a dado stack blade be used to create the same joint?? I have a bookmark for this joint being used to make a flagpole and masts for sailing ships.
Thanks for taking the time to share and can't wait for future projects. Subscribed and will be checking out your other videos.
I greatly appreciate your generous comments! Sorry about ignoring the handle shaping; it seemed like too much for a single video. It was done by approximate Forstner boring of the hand hole, bandsawing the outside curve, rounding off the hole and outside curve with a rasp, and a lot of sanding. Re using a dado stack for the joinery: why not? Typically, mast makers using BMJ use angle cuts with their table saw for the same purpose (two cuts are required.) For masts, stock thicker than 3/4" is often needed and the commercially available bird mouth router bits aren't big enough to handle it. Getting perfect joint angles with a table saw might take a lot of fussy adjustments, however.
David, thanks for the additional info much appreciated. I really liked the formula you added to the original info on these bits. Might want to add that as a link under your info about section.
Great video enjoyed very much, the "tool box" looks so good you wouldn't want to use it for tools, did you put a top tray inside the box???? Tim.
Hi Tim! Glad you enjoyed the video. No tray inside but it would be easy to make one as a drop-in. It could be built essentially the same way as the lid, but slightly smaller so that it would slip inside the box. I am using the box for hauling tools around but it doesn't get a lot of action; so far not much gouging or scratching, etc.
Thanks for the video--it's a great looking project and a good reason to buy a new router bit. I was wondering whether you considered doing the box and lid as a single assembly and then cutting them apart?
Many thanks for the comment and question, James! Re cutting apart a single assembly: good eye! This is a very practical idea and I use it often for smaller boxes. In this case my canary stock was not quite wide enough to get the box height where I wanted it. I have a video on building napkin holders coming soon (hah!) that relies on this idea.
That makes sense. After I commented I think I noticed you used that technique on another box. I only asked because I thought there might have been a reason other than stock width. I'm definitely looking forward to trying this AND to seeing your next video.
after watching this glue up several times, I have one question. I noticed you do cross grain glue ups on the parts. does this not cause long term failure at the joints with seasonal wood movement?
Russ Veinot Hi Russ Thanks for your comment! You're not the first to question me on my cross-grain glue joints and I realize that this contradicts a common wisdom of the woodworking world. However, I have been doing this for several years on somewhat smaller boxes (check my website), and have had no problems so far. This toolbox is the largest example that I've tried it on, and I'm sure there is an upper limit, depending on the species of wood and range of humidity changes the box will experience. Almost a year of substantially varying temperature and humidity here (San Diego area) haven't yet caused problems.
I kind of enjoy challenging the common wisdom and, in this case, feel that employing crossgrain joints in a thoughtful way substantially increases my range of design opportunities.
David: Thank You for an excellent video. I was surprised that you glued the top and bottom all around. I thought you would leave them "floating" to avoid expansion/shrinking issues. You method is obviously much stronger; but have you had any issues from expansion?
David - Thanks for your comments! Glad you liked the video. You are not the first to notice some of my glue-up practices. In this case I may be near the size limit for getting away with neglecting wood expansion. I decided to do it because I wanted maximum strength in the box; I expect it to get banged around quite a bit. I'll fess up if I have joint separation in the future. I'm also at risk with the cross-grain corner glue joints. I've been making smaller containers using this construction methods for years without problems.
I was thinking the exact same thing. On the top I see the need for strength (after all thats where the handle is) but I have some reservations about the bottom half, with the crossgrain corners and the fully glued bottom. I would guess the type of finish, or lack thereof, may be the determining factor of how much expansion and contracting will affect it.
great video mr henry where can I get the bits you used? I have tried every where and cannot find them. again very good video sir.
Hi Raymond! Glad you enjoyed the video! I mostly use bits from Lee Valley where they are called bird's-mouth joinery bits in the online catalog. For a variety of other suppliers, search Amazon for birds mouth router bits. Good luck with the bits; I'm sure that you will have a lot of fun with them!
You mentioned it was a bit heavy, and at the beginning of the vid I thought that it might be-- would the same project work with half-inch baltic birch plywood? I figure the void free ply will offer some additional strength, and it seems your construction method would highlight the edge-bands of the birch only around the octagon edges of the tops/bottoms.
Hi Nick! I'm sure that 1/2" baltic birch would work. I used it for a similar but smaller box without problems. Thanks for your interest!
davidhenry32 thanks for the reply. You earned a subscriber because your toolbox video went so far in effort to avoid showing standard work while still displaying it clearly and focusing on the subject at hand: joinery with birds mouth bits. Thanks for your work.
mr henry is it ok to glue two pieces of wood together after they have been stained or will the glue joint be to weak thank you
Hi Bill! I'm a long way from an expert on glue but I would be careful about using wood glues on stained or otherwise finished wood. The chemistry of wood glues is aimed at sticking to raw wood fibers and any prior finishing raises questions in my mind. I'm sure that in some cases, with some stains and some glues, the glue bond would be OK but I wouldn't risk it if you are counting on a full strength bond. If sanding off the stain is not possible, I suggest trying epoxy glue; that seems to bond to almost anything.
Good luck!
what happened too your wood hinges and hasp ?
I tried the 8 sided bit..got a bit of tearout and chatter. Feed speed too fast or depth of cut? Have some experimenting to do.
The problem was almost certainly taking a cut that was too big. For 3/4" stock I always take at least two passes to reach the final depth of cut. The 6- and 8-side bits take a pretty big bite. The kind of wood also makes a big difference. A few preliminary experiments, as you point out, are a good idea.
Hi David i have just bought a bird mouth bit so i am trying to set it up Just a little Question!! if you don't mind does one bit fit all i bought my from the USA the bit number 3508 from whiteside machine company Because i am having trouble getting the height right? Thank you so much. Love you videos Lots of Irish Luck from over here in Ireland
Hi Charlie! It's great to get a message from Ireland! The Whiteside 3508 bit appears to be exactly the same as the 8-side bit from Lee Valley that I use in my videos; I just checked it out. The bit height settings should be similar; for 3/4" stock, 3/16". For 1/2" stock, 1/8". The generalization for the 8-side bit is to set the bit height at one fourth the thickness of the stock, then do tests and make any small adjustments as necessary. Good luck!
Hi Dave. Pardon me if this question has already been asked, but have you experienced any problems at the joints due to expansion? I noticed the corners are vertical grain while the sides are horizontal. Does it work because the box is relatively small, or perhaps the species of wood makes the difference? Also, if I wanted to reinforce the joints, what would you recommend? Thank you.
Hi James. Thanks for your comment! I was waiting for someone to question me on my cross-grain glue joints! I have been doing this for several years on somewhat smaller boxes, and have had no problems so far. This toolbox is the biggest example that I've tried it on, and it may be pushing the limits; if I have trouble in the future I'll comment on it. Three months of substantially varying temperature and humidity here since it was assembled haven't caused problems (yet!)
Re reinforcing bird mouth joints, I hadn't given it much thought until now. My first thought is that it's ordinarily not necessary. If special circumstances require it, splines might work, wouldn't be difficult, and could add a nice decorative touch. It's possible that some type of biscuit or floating tenon could be inserted, but the fabrication set-up might be complicated. I'd be interested in any thoughts that you have on the subject. Do you have a specific application in mind?
davidhenry32 Thanks Dave. I have made some desks in the past, all with traditional joinery; mortise and tenon, dovetailed drawers, etc., but in the past few years I have only been doing small projects, like jewelry boxes and bandsaw boxes. (A big factor is the cost of good wood.) I found your video on bird mouth joints to be very interesting. I'm sure I had seen the joint before in one of my woodworking books, but never thought of using it, mainly because I always make four-sided boxes. Now that you have demonstrated it though, I will probably give it a try.
I don't think I will buy the router bit though. I think for me it would be better to use a dado stack on my table saw. I think it would work just fine. In my mind I envision making a sled sloping at 22-1/2* rather than tilting the dado. I would have to do some experiments though to test out the idea.
About reinforcing the joints - I was mostly just thinking out loud, wondering if you had ever needed to do so. I guess on your vases with vertical grain joints any reinforcement would be superfluous, but I can see on horizontal grain joints the possible need for a spline of some sort.
Thanks for making the video. It was very instructive, and enlightening.
James Carr
James - thanks for the useful and informative reply! I really like your dado stack idea; it has the potential to overcome one of the significant limitations of the commercially available router bits. They are good only for stock thickness up to about 3/4". If you try it, I would very much like to hear how it turns out. I've never seen the idea suggested before.
Was that a custom bit or is there a manufacturer for it?
+gary24752 Hi Gary! Thanks for checking out my video. The 8-side bird mouth router bit used for the project was purchased from Lee Valley, but similar bits are available from several sources, e.g. search Amazon for bird mouth router bits.
i have watched all your videos and i just cant get it,,,close but not good enough,,,lol,,everytime i make a cut it changes,,no set way of doing it i can find,,,
The joint is end grain glued to long grain. I wonder, how reliable is it?
Thanks for the comment and question. It is an entirely valid concern and quite a few other woodworkers have asked about my use of cross-grain glue joints. Unequal wood expansion between the two parts of the joint is the concern here, and must be taken into account for larger projects such as cabinets or tables.
As the size of a glue joint decreases, however, joint stress also decreases. This tool box is the largest piece where I have used cross-grain glue joints and, more than two years after assembly, with frequent handling, there is no sign of joint separation. On smaller, earlier pieces cross-grain joints are still good after at least 8 years. So far, I have never seen a failure. I use these joints because, combined with bird mouth joinery, they offer easy access to a wide range of decorative and design options.
It's a valid point. After some thinking I've figured that longer sides are fixed to a bottom frame, and that they constrain angle pieces mechanically. Even minimal adhesion should keep the joint strong.
how do i comment i really like your videos Julien
Thanks, Julien! Glad you like them!