This mare was trained in the old California vaquero style. I have ridden her only in the hackamore, two rein and now straight up and this was her first time straight up in the bridle.
Awesome discussion within these posts. I sure appreciate the respect expressed and the willingness to receive and engage in the discussions. For me, this was valuable learning all around. Thanks
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel With a refined touch, the bit may no longer be a pain compliance device. I still prefer the traditional hackamore or rope halter. A horse knows how to hold his head.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel I can't argue with that. There are a lot of those type of riders. And other riders that have years of experience but the wrong kind of experience. They don't understand a horse, so to correct a perceived horse problem they are told to put on a tie down, or get a more aggressive bit, or etc......And they will claim that they have soft hands. The horse 'says' (through his body language) otherwise.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel That is not the end point. I have seen skilled horsemen working roping and doctoring cattle without any head gear all day long.
The bit is a "polishing" tool. All the training I did on this horse was in the hackamore. Using the bit refines the communication. It is like a painter. As the painting progresses the painter begins using a finer and finer brush. The bit is that final, very fine line brush that brings all the final detail to the work of art. In the vide this horse was not quite how I wanted her. Shortly after this video we went back to the 2 rein to do a little more work. But the bit does allow a level of refined communication that is incredibly difficult to reach in the hackamore. And why not move to the bit? ;-)
@@modernvaquero It's true. Watch how horses carry themselves in the wild. Then watch how horses carry themselves when ridden in a rope halter. Then watch how they carry themselves when ridden in a spade bit.
@@gerrycoleman7290 I have spent hundreds of hours watching horses in the wild. Yes, they carry themselves MUCH better both in the wild and in a spade bit than they do in a rope halter. In the wild when being athletic and while being athletic in a spade bit they carry in a very similar way. For this horse, my father raised her. I watched her when she was still on he mothers side. Her carriage here and all the time in-between in natural for her.
in my opinion the best bridle horses made in bosal are in mexico . i hear alot of people in the U.S say the tradition is dying but thats baloni . it might be dying here because vaquero riding style got anglicized after the mexican american war & white migration west.
I think a big reason why it is dying is because there are so few people who really take the time required to make a really good hackamore horse. In most places we have also lost the old Spanish tradition and mindset of horsemanship being an art form and the idea that fine art takes time. I see this problem all over the world, not just in the US.
@@modernvaquero my point is almost every Mexican vaquero still makes their horse with a bosal , and amongst them are some greats that dont get any credit whatsoever. Americans should look to find them(to learn the art of the bosal) and learn from them as well because they are the direct decendants of who started all this "western" "vaquero style"etc. horsemanship
There is no such thing as a restrictive bit. Only restrictive hands. From my limited knowledge this horse hasn't been trained correctly. Head set too low, doesn't set correctly (bounces on forehand) Doesn't spin properly (forehand should be off the ground and straight nose to tail), lacks collection etc etc. Why would you video the first time straight up in the bridle? I mean no offence by my comments and well done but is it fair on the old timers to say this horse was trained old CVS ?
I totally agree with your first statement. 100% on the money. From your comment about the spin (forehand should be off the ground and straight nose to tail) it is pretty clear that you and I are looking for something different though. I do NOT want my horse strait from nose to tail. If the horse is straight like that it is very difficult for them to leave the spin in a balanced lope with no brake in stride or impulsion. If the horse can not leave the spin in a lope at any step, then the spin looses all practical value when roping waspy cattle. As for the "head set to low" again I think we are looking for something totally different. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if her head set was raised any more than it is, she would begin to hollow in her back due to her individual conformation. What I would like to see is he lowering her hind quarter more but that is a work in progress. And that is why I videoed the first time straight up, to show a work in progress. It is not perfect nor would I expect it to be. Far to many people expect horses to be some kind of perfect machines and that does not do justice to the horse.
the horse is supporting most of its weight on its front legs, the hind legs do not carry any weight and serve only to provide a bit of pushing power, in other words the first aim of dressage, engagement of the rear hand was not achieved at all. Also therefore the "lead changes" are more of a stumbling into the other lead than anything else, if travelling faster, the horse would probably fall on its nose. the western riding style originated in the riding practised by the Spanish conquistadors..... Why the hell do not these people who claim to be sooooo interested in riding take a few moths of classes in Spain or Portugal and learn to ride for real?????? Its where your riding comes from ... compare to a video on youtube with Alvaro Domesq, Lea Vincens, Pedro Hermoso de Mendosa and many others, these people can actually ride and you will also discover why...
Helene Chambert actually I live in Spain now, but nice try 😂 This is a typical down hill built modern quarter horse. While I would LOVE to have seen her transfer even more weight to the hind quarter, she has already transferred a significant amount in comparison to her natural conformation and way of traveling. Trying to compare this horse to any of the doma vaquera horses or PREs or Lusatanos I have ridden is like comparing apples and oranges. And we have done quite a lot of lead changes at full speed, on bad ground and with a cow on the end of a rope and it has never seemed to be a problem. 😀 As for studying basic dressage principals I have taken lessons at both the Royal School in Cordoba and in Buckeburg Germany. I have also taught 2 clinics at the Royal School in Germany. Now if you would like to continue this discussion feel free to first post video links of you on your horse doing these things in the way you believe this horse should be doing them.
Magnificent example of gentle communication between rider and his horse ❤
Ich hab Jeff in Deutschland erlebt und ich habe nie einen besseren Coach erlebt. Es gibt keine bessere Arbeitsreitweise als diese. Thanks coach
So stellt man sich das vor, wenn man an altkalifornische Reitweise und Vaqueros denkt. sehr schön!!
Much respect for a nice horse and keeping tradition alive.
Beautiful example of soft willing expression, grate song!❤
Beautiful, especially considering it's her first time straight up.
Awesome discussion within these posts. I sure appreciate the respect expressed and the willingness to receive and engage in the discussions. For me, this was valuable learning all around. Thanks
wow!
If we were not separated by an ocean, I would ask you to teach me your art... that beautiful style!
Goals! Oh wow, that was lovely to watch!
Always love this clip !!
great video love watching your stuff lots of respect for what you do keep em comin
soft and easy, wonderful. Thanks for sharing
That was amazing!
Very impressive reverse gear. Good control of the back wheels on that four wheel drive!
Please do a video on how you cue your horse or the canter depart or lope. It looks very nice!
Lovely! thank you!
Love that song.
Do you know the name ?
+Homero Fernández Villanueva Fillinic (by Juni Fisher)
Awesome !
Horses are like politics... No-one can agree on anything. Thats his horse, he can train and ride as he sees fit.
Tolles Video, sehr harmonisch!!!
Kevin gates
Wunderschön....
You should share your horses on Horsepip! Good channel!
That's cool!
Why go beyond the hackamore to the spade bit when the horse already is light and confident with the hackamore?
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel With a refined touch, the bit may no longer be a pain compliance device. I still prefer the traditional hackamore or rope halter. A horse knows how to hold his head.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel Only if the person is very skilled with his hands.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel Many horse people do not have the skill to manage a bit without causing pain to the horse.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel I can't argue with that. There are a lot of those type of riders. And other riders that have years of experience but the wrong kind of experience. They don't understand a horse, so to correct a perceived horse problem they are told to put on a tie down, or get a more aggressive bit, or etc......And they will claim that they have soft hands. The horse 'says' (through his body language) otherwise.
@Ye Olde Horsemanship Channel That is not the end point. I have seen skilled horsemen working roping and doctoring cattle without any head gear all day long.
I found the riders hands to be very light- BUT why move to a bit if the "hackamore" was working for you??
Because the hackamore is for training and the bit is for a finished horse...
The bit is a "polishing" tool. All the training I did on this horse was in the hackamore. Using the bit refines the communication. It is like a painter. As the painting progresses the painter begins using a finer and finer brush. The bit is that final, very fine line brush that brings all the final detail to the work of art. In the vide this horse was not quite how I wanted her. Shortly after this video we went back to the 2 rein to do a little more work. But the bit does allow a level of refined communication that is incredibly difficult to reach in the hackamore. And why not move to the bit? ;-)
modernvaquero well said
I just feel that "Less is More" sometimes.
+jett888
If this horse is truly a bridle horse in the Vaquero style, then I have no doubt she can be ridden bridleless. The bit is for precision.
WOW 👀❗❗❗
3:28 That's what does it.
toll!!
what is this song?
Not a normal, natural head carriage position.
LMAO! Nice try, total fail but nice try. :D
@@modernvaquero It's true. Watch how horses carry themselves in the wild. Then watch how horses carry themselves when ridden in a rope halter. Then watch how they carry themselves when ridden in a spade bit.
@@gerrycoleman7290 I have spent hundreds of hours watching horses in the wild. Yes, they carry themselves MUCH better both in the wild and in a spade bit than they do in a rope halter. In the wild when being athletic and while being athletic in a spade bit they carry in a very similar way. For this horse, my father raised her. I watched her when she was still on he mothers side. Her carriage here and all the time in-between in natural for her.
in my opinion the best bridle horses made in bosal are in mexico . i hear alot of people in the U.S say the tradition is dying but thats baloni . it might be dying here because vaquero riding style got anglicized after the mexican american war & white migration west.
I think a big reason why it is dying is because there are so few people who really take the time required to make a really good hackamore horse. In most places we have also lost the old Spanish tradition and mindset of horsemanship being an art form and the idea that fine art takes time. I see this problem all over the world, not just in the US.
16 seconds in , you can almost see into the past when you see Don Ricardo Zermeño ride czcams.com/video/JyoxVTP8pZs/video.html
@@modernvaquero my point is almost every Mexican vaquero still makes their horse with a bosal , and amongst them are some greats that dont get any credit whatsoever. Americans should look to find them(to learn the art of the bosal) and learn from them as well because they are the direct decendants of who started all this "western" "vaquero style"etc. horsemanship
There is no such thing as a restrictive bit. Only restrictive hands.
From my limited knowledge this horse hasn't been trained correctly. Head set too low, doesn't set correctly (bounces on forehand) Doesn't spin properly (forehand should be off the ground and straight nose to tail), lacks collection etc etc.
Why would you video the first time straight up in the bridle?
I mean no offence by my comments and well done but is it fair on the old timers to say this horse was trained old CVS ?
I totally agree with your first statement. 100% on the money. From your comment about the spin (forehand should be off the ground and straight nose to tail) it is pretty clear that you and I are looking for something different though. I do NOT want my horse strait from nose to tail. If the horse is straight like that it is very difficult for them to leave the spin in a balanced lope with no brake in stride or impulsion. If the horse can not leave the spin in a lope at any step, then the spin looses all practical value when roping waspy cattle. As for the "head set to low" again I think we are looking for something totally different. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if her head set was raised any more than it is, she would begin to hollow in her back due to her individual conformation. What I would like to see is he lowering her hind quarter more but that is a work in progress. And that is why I videoed the first time straight up, to show a work in progress. It is not perfect nor would I expect it to be. Far to many people expect horses to be some kind of perfect machines and that does not do justice to the horse.
the horse is supporting most of its weight on its front legs, the hind legs do not carry any weight and serve only to provide a bit of pushing power, in other words the first aim of dressage, engagement of the rear hand was not achieved at all. Also therefore the "lead changes" are more of a stumbling into the other lead than anything else, if travelling faster, the horse would probably fall on its nose.
the western riding style originated in the riding practised by the Spanish conquistadors.....
Why the hell do not these people who claim to be sooooo interested in riding take a few moths of classes in Spain or Portugal and learn to ride for real?????? Its where your riding comes from ...
compare to a video on youtube with Alvaro Domesq, Lea Vincens, Pedro Hermoso de Mendosa and many others, these people can actually ride and you will also discover why...
Helene Chambert actually I live in Spain now, but nice try 😂
This is a typical down hill built modern quarter horse. While I would LOVE to have seen her transfer even more weight to the hind quarter, she has already transferred a significant amount in comparison to her natural conformation and way of traveling.
Trying to compare this horse to any of the doma vaquera horses or PREs or Lusatanos I have ridden is like comparing apples and oranges.
And we have done quite a lot of lead changes at full speed, on bad ground and with a cow on the end of a rope and it has never seemed to be a problem. 😀
As for studying basic dressage principals I have taken lessons at both the Royal School in Cordoba and in Buckeburg Germany. I have also taught 2 clinics at the Royal School in Germany.
Now if you would like to continue this discussion feel free to first post video links of you on your horse doing these things in the way you believe this horse should be doing them.