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Flow Hive Comparison and Update, FlowSupers on Two Honey Bee Hives
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2016
- The FlowHive frames compared between two competing colonies, some progress very fast, while others are slow to visit the flowframes and work on them. In the end, all of the bees do work the flowframes, but not at the same rate.
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Update on our FlowHive units. Honey Bees are not all the same, one colony is more accepting of the FlowFrames than the other. Both colonies have the choice of using Langstroth supers or FlowSupers with FlowFrames in them. Seven Frame flowsupers placed on 10 frame Langstroth style hive bodies.
Progress with the flow frames has been very slow. Often the bees store tiny amounts of honey and then simply use it up or relocate it within the hive during colder nights.
Our weather this spring continues to be colder than normal, along with sporadic rains. The clover came in late as did the alfalfa, but the bees are definitely bringing in nectar.
Looks like they will not fill the flowframes this spring/summer, but continue to prepare the cells by finishing them up with wax and propolis. They will be ready for the late summer nectar flow.
Sorry I don't have more to report. But something is better than nothing I suppose. The colonies are 2 years old and well established, so these are not new colonies of honey bees.
I selected my most active colonies for this experiment.
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Thanks for the video. Bought my first flow hive 6 weeks ago. Installed a 5 frame Nuc of Italian bees with a hand reared cordovan redhead queen into a 10 frame brood box without the super. Took 4 weeks for the bees to draw out 4 frames to give 9 solid frames of comb. While they were drawing the comb, I scrapped any cross comb and propolis, melted it with some bought bees wax and painted the flow super frames with it. Just added the super 4 days ago. The bees have sealed a lot of the cells and are filling them with nectar throughout the last two days but by night have been eating it, each time leaving a little more left over than the night before. I’m a newbie but I think mixing some of their own wax with the refined wax helped them adapt to the frames. I live in Brisbane, Australia.
I hope they continue to make progress for you, thanks for sharing what you're doing.
As ever, a thank you to Mr. Dunn for taking the time to make this video and document your experiment.
You're very welcome Dean!
I agree. This Vlog gives us more information regarding in how the life of these bees suit the condition within the Flow Hive.
Van JoshElanium Thank you!
thank you
Great video thanks for posting Mr. Dunn. I live in Orlando, filled 3/4 of my second 8 frame deep box 7-10 days ago and put the Flow HIve on at that time.
My bees are sealing and cleaning - so according to your video they are right on track.
Have a great summer
Thanks and I'm so glad, I hope it is a great summer for you and your honey bees! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for another wonderful and informative video.
We'd also like to thank you for you service!!! Saw in the comments of one of your videos you were in the Navy. Thank you sir!
Hi Maverickmomma, thanks for that nice comment. I was only on active duty for twenty years three months and zero days.. but who was counting (';')( ';')... now, I live in the countryside so I can connect with nature.
Sounds like a wonderful life!
We're extremely grateful for the service of all military! You and your fellow soldiers are the reason we enjoy such freedoms. Thank you! I admire your tenacity and dedication. I love visiting the beach, diving the depths of the ocean, and boating; however, I do not think I could spend even a year without my trees. I love trees! That is where God speaks to my soul! I'm glad you're finally getting some well deserved time enjoying the country side! ^_^
Nothing in the world, beats leaving the surface for the briny depths, the world over. So, TREES, have you read the new book by Peter Wohlleben titled The Hidden Life of Trees? "What they feel, How They Communicate"... you will be inspired all the more.
I also have a FlowBox this season, and I can confirm that they seem to do better when a shallow super is placed above the FlowBox (for aesthetic purposes actually, so a copper top lid would fit more nicely). I* have been harvesting tons of honey so far this season, starting around 7/4. When I inspect, the shallow above the FlowBox is always nearly empty, but the Flow Frames are packed. I also have to say: location location LOCATION. I'm currently sited in northern VT with many fallow fields nearby. Thus, there has been a pretty consistent honeyflow on. Great Video!
Hi Grunty... my family originates in Vermont! My Mother taught Home Economics at the Craftsbury Academy and we had a family farm down by Little Hosmer :)
That was pleasant to watch and listen to
i love how the bees closed off al of the gaps so now when you open it they dont come pouring out
They are excellent at modifying their home and a marvel to watch!
Thanks for the video. Knowing you had Flow Supers, I came to ask a question, but this video seems to have basically answered it. I started beekeeping this year, as a result of the Flow Hive. Like many, the allure of seemingly getting honey without the normal "hassles" of beekeeping was appealing. I quickly learned it wasn't as simple as that, but I love it, and love working with the bees. I received my Nuc on May 4th, and the bees quickly went to work and had the first brood box full in a couple weeks. I added a second brood box, and the result was the same. I'm seeing Brood, pollen and honey in both boxes. About mid June I placed a queen excluder (at someone else's recommendation) and the Flow Super on top, and also ended up placing a medium super on top of that, as the handles on the top door of the Flow were not allowing the cover to seat properly. Anyway, Up until about three weeks ago I wasn't seeing much activity in the Flow Super, so after watching some other videos, I decided to take the queen excluder out, hoping for easier access for the bees to the Flow. Activity has certainly picked up, but they're still just in the filling cracks stage. I wasn't sure if taking this long was normal or abnormal, so I came to ask. I see that it all depends on the hive.
At this point I'm not planning on pulling any honey this year, unless they sudden;y get really busy and fill both the Flow and medium supers. Don't want them going hungry over the winter.
Hi Martain, you're right to put off taking honey the first year around. Your FlowSuper will have to come off for winter and the extra super can remain for their needs. Some of my colonies filled the flowframes nicely two times in the same season, while other never managed to quite fill them completely. Honey productivity definitely depends on resources, weather, and line of bees kept. I did notice that after they did all the preparation and sealing up, subsequent nectar flows were translated immediately to honey stores. I wish you well with your bees and thanks for watching.
I am so looking forward to mounting a flow frame this spring, I got it in the fall and have had it outside "weathering" -
All of mine are inside for winter storage and in the spring, whichever colonies come through strongest will get the flow-supers ON... :)
Thanks Frederick. Much appreciated.
You're welcome!
we harvested 17 KG's over the autumn from our hive- and just a few weeks before that the frames looked just like yours. Once the honey started appearing things progressed very rapidly. I guess it all depends on the nectar flow. So I would say there is a very good chance that you will get to harvest some honey this year still. Good luck!
Oh, I have no doubt that they will fill this year, we just had a rough spring. When golden rod comes into bloom, all of my colonies always top off as we go into autumn. Glad your bees are so productive and thanks for sharing.
i own 45 acres some wooded some not, have plenty of golden rod , but my bees go to a bush called poverty plant, they seem not to like the gold stuff. lol
@@mdseelbach5894 you're in WA?
nice followup. cool to see the progression and comparison. i do prefer the narration tho. thanks for sharing
I will be sure to narrate the next video... lots to share, so making titles is tedious for sure.
When you harvest the honey what happens to the wax that was used to cap the comb? I've seen several videos where the honey is being harvested and on Lynn the honey flows out
The workers chew off the cap wax of the empty cells and discard them, workers then pick up the discarded wax caps and fly them out of the hive to be dropped in nearby fields. They make new caps after refilling the cells.
Interesting to see into the future... I'm at least a month away from trying my flow frames. My bees are still working on their second brood box. I'm hoping they fill it up in July and then I was hoping to put on the flow frames in August. That might be too late based on what I see in this video. Where are you located? I'm up in Massachusetts.
This is PA... I have friends in Vermont who already have full supers, so zone by zone, things are definitely different. I hope your bees meet your hopes!
+Frederick Dunn Were your friends in VT starting with empty hives and new packages? I was at ground zero with a new package on May 16. My bees are about 1/3 into their second brood box.
Vino Farm No, they are long time keepers with well established colonies of bees that handle their climate very well. New packages will generally take some time to build up numbers and resources as they queen will begin laying and you'll have 21 days on average for new bees that will increase hive/colony numbers and then those newbees become field workers eventually and that will increase your intake. I personally never take any honey off of a new colony until the second year.
Do you keep the super on the brood box during the winter?
you got some fine bees man!
Thanks Angelo, I'll pass that on to them :)
Frederick Dunn : 1st, THANKS for the Vids & being a Flow Tester. We set our 1st 2 hives about a month ago. Looking strongly into using Flow Supers next year & very nice to see the experiences of those that have gone before. I've read Most questions/comments BUT I Can not tell, HOW IS THE FLOW doing respective to your regular supers ?? Are any of your standard hives Further ahead in the honey production ?? Thanks in advance.
Hi Harley, yes, my standard supers are ahead of the flow supers and that's a little deceiving in that the normal supers are pretty shallow as compared to the flow supers, so they cap off earlier. I'm counting on the late summer golden rod to fill them up. We'll see.
Is it just me or is the "comb" not set up correctly in the first hive? They don't seem to make a proper hexagon shape and seem to be in the extraction shape (from what I understand of the the flow hive mechanics). This could possibly be the reason it is taking that hive longer to start storing honey since they have to fix every single opened flow gap.
And the nectar seems to be collecting at the drain plugs. Were the frames properly closed prior to insertion? I think the Flow frames were open.
The frames look opened to me too.
This isn't set up properly.
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I noticed that too. Looks like it's not shut all the way. If so it would take a lot more time to fill that big a gap.
I made the same mistake our first year. You have to go through and force alignment of all the comb. They can't get in there right if it isn't aligned right.
So I seen another vid.. the guy rolled the frames with melted beeswax before putting in the box. When brand new, bees accepted it better/faster and seals it, so bees dont gave to work at sealing them???
Not necessary at all.
Been waiting on this!!
I only wish it were a flow harvest video :) that will eventually come...
Lol Bee puns
Nice follow-up! However, you pointed out honey in the cells, which is more than likely just nectar.
You are correct Bill.. even though the nectar has mixed with enzymes from at least two bee crops before arriving there in the cell, it's "technically" not honey yet... they will cap it and then it can be officially named "honey" I will try to make that distinction in any future videos. Thanks for keeping me in line :)
As an experiment this spring, I put equal numbers of original Flow supers and Chinese flow supers on my hives. After swarming, I had 4 colonies fill supers - 2 with original Flow supers and 2 with Chinese supers. I found no difference between the two models on bee acceptance and ease of use. The Chinese supers worked great and, of course, are only a fraction of the price.
If you are comfortable buying from patent thieves, there are no limits. I personally don't trust Chinese companies that don't vouch for or remain accountable for materials used which is another matter.
Actually, I respect Cedar and applaud and celebrate his breakthrough for us. However, he has priced the Flow hive so high that most cannot afford to buy more than one or two. Many can't afford even a couple. The price of $500 per super is just too high to have enough to cover a larger apiary. By seeking such an extremely large profit on the Flow, they opened a window that has proved much too tempting for the competition.
The Chinese are offering an equally functional alternative at 1/5 the cost and are making profit. I would love to only buy from Cedar, but his prohibitive pricing is forcing me and the market to look elsewhere to meet our needs. Many have tried to get Flow to be more reasonable with their pricing, but without success. I would pay more for an original Flow, but I find that 5 times the price of an alternative is just too much.
@@psyched1231 I agree with mr dunn wholeheartedly becuase something is cheaper doesn't mean it justifiies theft and you are a partner in theft by your own admission you can buy a brand new dvd in nyc for $2.00 on the street i also don't trust china when they sell knockoffs STINKS myflowhives pay for themselves in two seasons
Hi, was wondering what breed of bees do you use from the website listed
I use the Weaver Survivor LIne of bees...
6:20 are they preparing the cells for honey? Can they both fix cells and fill them with honey at the same time?
I have not observed them filling the cells until well after the joints have been filled. So, no, not simultaneously.
I have a question I wish to ask. Normally, in a hive, it is totally dark, right? Thats why the bees respond when u open the Super Flow. If it is totally dark, how do the bees navigate inside a hive?
In the darkness of the hive, honey bees navigate with their antennae and feet, they greet one another in darkness by scent and often extend their tongues and taste test what's being stored or received into the hive. Even waggle dances are performed in darkness and the information is gathered/learned by others through antennae that touch the dancer. Good Question! They "feel, taste, and smell" their way...
is there possibly a time lapse of the cells getting filled from empty?
Hi David, because that would take days, It's not something I'm personally interested in doing, but it would be fun to watch for sure.
I just saw another video with two guys vacuuming hive beetles in a flow hive. Is that normal that you vacuum a hive for beetle?
I'm sorry Rosa, I don't have the hive beetle problems that some of the southern beekeepers do, but if there were beetles in the flow-frames, I would pull the frames completely out and then power wash them. AND only replace them when the bee population is strong enough to keep the beetles out. Power wash and then dip the frames in a 10% bleach solution. Dry and store for future use.
I wonder if anyone has ever considered getting a syringe full of last seasons honey and at the beginning of spring putting a little honey in a few cells sporadically to give the bees some direction?
It's a great idea, but doesn't have any impact on their decision to use or not use the cells for honey storage. And if they have not yet sealed the cells, the honey will just run down.
great info to share, but i'm curious how if i buy and have flowhive at home will bee's like to stay, while i'm not a bee keeper ?
If you are not a beekeeper and don't intend to be a beekeeper, please don't set up a flowhive, it's not like putting up a bird box that birds eventually occupy. A standard FlowHive will not just take care of itself and the bees (in general) would not just move into it. I hope that makes sense?
i see, okay thanks for your respon sir.
You're welcome.
Is there an online bee keeper group? That's interesting that different zones are receiving honey at different times.
Yes, there are beekeeper organizations in every State and even regional beekeeper associations. They have FaceBook pages and Google Groups... even if you can't physically make it to the meetings, you can share online and learn from one another. I highly recommend joining one! :) Weather patterns have a huge effect on honey stores as the bees don't like and are impeded by cloudy days, rainy days, windy days... the flowers that provide nectar have to be blooming in sufficient quantities. Lots of variables...
***** Sure, no problem :) www.californiastatebeekeepers.com/links-affiliated-clubs.html
I'd love to get one or two but the only experience with bees that have had is being stung
Would you still recommend the flow hive frames?
I absolutely do and all but two of my hives have flow-supers on them. They have worked out very well and I no longer remove honey frames the way I used to.
@@FrederickDunn I would think these to be superlative to common supers/frames, have you found that different races do or like these better?
@@LadyElk1 I haven't found that one bee line prefers them over another. Italians filled them at a rapid rate! I've since changed to BeeWeaver bees exclusively.
How long it takes for single harvest?
Impossible to answer, they are living organisms and not machinery. Forage quality, season, size of the colony etc, all play when predicting honey that will be produced. When draining a flow-frame, even that is highly variable depending on the outside temperature.
Why don’t the octagons fit together? They’re off center. That looks like a design flaw. There could still be a crack to fill up but why not make it to where the sides line up into a perfect octagon like the bees actually make? Just curious about that particular thing. Other than that I think this is a genius idea for a hive
They do line up perfectly. The cell edges are uneven, which can give the illusion of being misaligned. :)
Frederick Dunn thanks for clearing that up 👍
I've yet to get my bees to put any honey in the flow frames.
Hi Gene, I only put the flow-supers on my most productive hives. As you're already experiencing, if the productivity is low, they may never fill the flow-super. I have colonies that I know would just not produce enough to make this work and that's probably something I need to address in future videos. We have a short honey producing season where I live, so you really need some hard-charging bees, I have some slacker colonies for sure.
You’ve come along way comment for the alg
How the bees enter in these frames
They walk up from the bottom just as they do with all hive frames. Normal landing board, normal entrances, the only difference is what the frames are made out of. They have the Langstroth arrangement of frames.
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Ini terbuat dari plastik food grade
what is a super??
A super is the term applied to an extra box of frames where honey will be stored. It's considered "extra" and can be taken off after a honey/nectar flow is complete and the bees have capped the comb.
+Frederick Dunn much obliged
hoplite46 No problem
👍🌺👍🌺👍🌺
At 4:04 I heard a chicken
The second unit didn't look like it was modified as much to seal everything. It was probably made better than the first one! The bees in the first one had more work to do lol
I have three now and actually can't see any differences. At any rate, the bees have sealed them all up. Thanks for commenting.
Maybe the first colony were just slow the first time for another reason then hehe!
Cheryl Dahl That's true :)
That flow have doesn't look like the original flow hive from australia.it looks fake counterfeit ones.
I guess you may have missed the embossing on the side view window. Trust me, it's the real thing, I'd never ever purchase a knockoff version. Ever.
POOR BEES that have to fix the cone for two weeks before they can store another lot of nectar!
? how so ?
The cells in the first images were misaligned causing the sealing process to be more work and resulting in misshaped cells, it's no wonder the bees didn't use them.
That's an interesting observation Dale, but they were aligned fine. When you view them from the sides, the surface ends of the cells are intentionally irregular and when looking straight on, they are in line. It's an optical illusion. In the end, all were used and filled just fine. This was just an "in-progress" look. But keep watching and commenting on your observations, you never know when something just may have been missed. Thanks.
Looks like the flow hives are really inefficient for the bees
The results are wide and varied from one apiary to another. My honey bees are definitely behind some others this year, so it may not be the best example of what happens with flowframes. Still observing and learning about how they work the frames.
does not look like the frames were set right kind of off in comb shape...
HI Tim, the face of flow frames are all irregular intentionally so the bees have to finish them off. Are your FlowFrames looking different than these? Did you get comb from Flow that is perfectly even at the face? Please tell me more about that.. thanks.
mine were offset just like yours. The bees did great with them and evened up the wax so they were level by the time they capped them. I put my frames on around March 9th (probably a little on the early side since my 2nd brood box wasn't full enough). I've harvested 3 frames since July 5th.
Einat Clarke Where I live, I don't take any honey off during July or August, those are summer dearth months here and the bees need those resources. I do take honey off during the golden rod late summer nectar flow. I'm glad your bees are doing so well!
well that was a bit of a deception : (
How do you feel deceived?
+Frederick Dunn not that much,but I was expecting better results : )
aerin fay Just 20 miles south of me, honey bees are bringing in much more, I live in an area that gets colder nights, so honey production isn't what it "could" be.
+Frederick Dunn yes might be the reason why their isn't that much production still thank you for your hard work we always appreciate it !!
Thanks!