Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2.3 - Tomorrow And Tomorrow And Tomorrow
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2023
- Last week courtroom, this week time travel.
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That last scene with La'an calling Kirk and then breaking down was so heartbreaking. Christina's performance was superb!
Damn Star Trek for making me feel feelings. It's absolutely fucking heartbreaking what happened this week to La'an. She found someone who had no baggage with her name, someone who didn't (internally, or externally) discriminate, who saw her for her, and... yeah. Just absolutely fucking soul crushing. I leaked a few tears with her, ngl.
You're absolutely right.
I'm not crying you're crying
I wonder if she was told to ugly cry or if she came up with it herself.
We already knew Christina is a good actress, but to give La'an a soul, the writign of her character was on top in this episode!
Going back to the chess stuff... I found it interesting that Kirk talked about 3 dimensional chess and then at the end in Kahn's room you see another 2 dimensional chess board in reference to Kahn not thinking 3 dimensionally in Wrath of Kahn and ultimately how Kirk beats him.
I also loved how Kirk dismissed 2D chess as 'Idiots Chess'
Good catch!
Fantastic catch!
Excellent observation!
Nice!
The way Pelia looked at Le'an on the bridge like she recognized that outfit and hair combo. Then the temporal agent said to La'an you can not talk about this with anyone from this time. Pelia isn't really from that time and she was involved with the stuff anyway. There was so much set up for a scene with Pelia comming to her quarters to talk, it's like they filmed it and cut it out in post.
@dominichamer8929 I thought of that too. She recognised La'an as soon as she came aboard and knew how she knew who she was during the time travel. She would also have known that La'an was a damn good officer and that she should let them steal the Enterprise if both La'an and a Vulcan (Spock) were both on board with that cos there had to be a good reason for it like she said. Funny how it was La'an that inspired her to become an engineer which facilitated that to happen in the first place (or was it?) lol.
I think they're deliberately saving the revelation that Pelier remembers for a future episode. Maybe this amazing Episode 9 that Mount and Romijn are so keen for everyone to see!
@dominichamer8929 yes good catch before it made less sense but now its 100% believable. like she said maybe its time to get a real job haha
I was thinking the same thing, waiting for the door chime and have it be Pelia, ready to talk about coming "full circle" like Guinan & Picard in "Time's Arrow" on TNG. But it didn't happen (yet?). But, funnily enough, the camera took an extra beat to showcase the watch... Pelia's watch (which is now an antique). And, you would think the Temporal agent would have also asked for La'an to hand over the watch, evidence.
Also, how the agent specifically said "...with Pike, or anyone from this Time" (and didn't explicitly mention any other by name); but Pelia's species lives for thousands of years (at least 2000) so her "Time" is both from "this Time" and from another "Time."
You would think a Temporal agent would _know_ things: like leaving a loaded gun in a kid's room, the watch, and Pelia's presence on Enterprise and 2022. Well, like O'Brien always says .... "I hate temporal mechanics!"
I'm surprised you missed that when Kirk and la'an were in the car and Kirk was figuring out how to drive, he put it in reverse first, then drove "badly" after that which was the same thing that happened the first time Kirk drove a car in the TOS episode "A Piece of the Action", reverse first the forward badly "you are an excellent starship captain, but your skills at driving leave much to be desired."
La'An has gone from "oh god, poinltess reference to Khan character" to "wow! shes amazing", all on the back of the spectrum of emotions we see her going through today.
Gosh, no mention of the "Sam's alive!?" moment in the hotel room? Easily the most touching and memorable moment in the episode, which is saying something...
Co-signed. And there's an extra-credit "aw" because we know in our timeline Jim's still going to tragically outlive his big brother.
@@CRanapia so glad I'm not the only one who remembers poor Sam
Ya! I think it says so much about the kirk brothers that it seems like that is what convinced Jim to undo the timeline!
That was what sent Kirk over to the 'let's save you timeline' attitude. He doesn't even hesitate after he hears it.
Right?
I really liked this episode. It was understated but Kirk made up his mind to “fix” the timeline when he found out his brother was alive.
Sacrificing yourself so the both of them could live a better life in a better universe. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few; or the one."
Yes, that was heartwarming. And also heartbreaking, considering Sam's final fate. :(
That was the clincher.
@@Nergalsama01 The physical death of all of us is inevitable at some point in the future but in La'an's timeline Sam lives long enough to get married and have at least one son whom we know to have outlived Sam and may even have descendants in the TNG era.
@@Texasjim2007 Yeah...still, that would give Sam only a few years to live from this point forward.
A friend of mine mentioned that Kirk’s reversing the car (and hitting the car behind him) is a direct callback to the TOS episode “A Piece of the Action.” I missed that, and apparently so did 99% of the other ST fans out there. A shout out to Marc in Austin for this wonderful observation; apparently the dolphins need some closer observations.
Oh, I got that one. Especially when I saw it was a stick shift, I knew what was coming.
I got it.
I was on the 1% out of sheer luck, I re-watched Piece of the Action days before this aired, haha. So much fun!
I got it, too. That is one of my favorite original series episodes. Great if he won the money, as well, playing Fizz-bin! 😁
Compare and contrast Jim's expertise on a modern muscle car (? Mustang) in this episode with the TOS episode "A Piece of the Action"
Spock:Captain... you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver, you leave much to be desired.
CANON WATCH WAKE UP YOU DOZY BEGGAR!!!
I think Sarah mentioning the ripples in time constantly, subtly changing things is a genius stroke freeing the writers (and hopefully some fans) from canon.
I agree. I maybe, wrong but I recall the Temporal Agent that met with Archer on Enterprise saying due to temporal manipulation certain events get delayed or pushed forward but so long as they still occur reality holds itself together and eventually corrects itself. However, It's when said major events are tampered with major diversions occur.
@@shinkyto Hmmm...surely Khan has to be in the correct spot in space/time to be found by TOS Enterprise crew to set in motion the events leading up to Wrath of Khan....if Spock doesn't die, it's most likely they are not conveniently placed to save Earth from a humpback whale seeking probe... that's some pretty big events to massage back into shape. Also sure the timing of WWIII and first contact with the Vulcans to get everything kicked off also needs to be precise as well.
Guess they had enough of it by the end of the millennia. ;)
Trek = potentially going the infinite multiverse route? Popular at the moment, so that's good isn't it🤔
You want this? You're welcome to it. I find it tedious and lazy writing.
Pass
@@jeremylister89 That's always been implied in star trek. It's just a nuance of time travel, I guess.
The final close up on the watch while La'an in sobbing in the background killed me.
Beautiful cinematography! Simply chef’s kiss!
Damn Star Trek for making me feel feelings. It's absolutely fucking heartbreaking what happened this week to La'an. She found someone who had no baggage with her name, someone who didn't (internally, or externally) discriminate, who saw her for her, and... yeah. Just absolutely fucking soul crushing. I leaked a few tears with her, ngl.
But why the close up of the watch? What's that supposed to signify?
@@jeffs6090
I was wondering that too. Maybe a last bit of power left for her to time travel once again. That or it's nothing but a last memory of her and Kirk having a moment. I think , it will allow her to time travel.
@mikewaters6339 why would the watch let her time travel? It's just a watch with a radium or phosphor paint on the hands
I felt that the scene with Kirk figuring out the car(and going in reverse by accident) is a homage to the TOS episode "A Piece of the Action"
Great minds think alike.
Agreed
The car nerd in me was freaking out because that “car” was a 700+HP muscle car and he was using the “full power” red key!
Defo. I caught that too
It's all homage - there's nothing new.
Another up that is heavily overlooked is the reason for La'an not existing in the Kirk timeline. Most time travel stuff has all the same players even though events are different. This episode did a good job changing that. The reason no one knew La'an is because she was never born. If Khan was killed in the timeline then he has no descendants...meaning La'an was never born. That was a really nice touch.
In the alternate timeline where she meets Kirk, he says the cold fusion reactor blows up, (but not in La`an's timeline), so that is where the two timelines diverge. If Sarah [had] successfully killed Kahn, then there would have been a third timeline created.
Granted, since the reactor was housed in the same building, when it [would have has had] blown up, Kahn would have also perished, and thus, no one would have known about the augmented humans and its creator.
One of the subtle things in this episode is how Kirk is so interested in the food. In Star Trek II, after being trapped on the asteroid, he also asks about food. Whether deliberate or not, it's a nice bit of character continuity. Being trapped by a Noonien-Singh makes Kirk think about food.
Toronto being mistaken for New York is such a good goof. Also we get to see that no matter what, no matter what universe, Kirk is extraordinarily charming.
Look, we don't ever get to see Canada in any tv or movies. Being able to see just straight up Toronto winter on tv, with Toronto winter clothing and food and roads being filled with slush and being hard to drive on. It's nice! Friggin poutine was in the show!
It was a brilliant meta joke. A huge amount of American media is shot in the Toronto area, with Toronto standing in for nearly every large American city ever.
better: we often see Toronto, but with different nametags.
As an American, I'm actually glad this show didn't fall into the usual trap of "It all has to be about America."
Mostly Vancouver, actually.
@@CaritasGothKaraoke That's the old trope. Current trope is Toronto. (All the Stargates, Continuum, Caprica, BSG and a bunch of others were Vancouver. The Expanse, Various new Treks are all Toronto.)
When La'An and Kirk appeared in Toronto my first thought was: Kirk has now time travelled to earth in 1968, 1986 (funny that 68 & 86) and now 2022. Then I hoped for a Bill Shatner cameo as in Shatner, as himself, being asked for directions by La'An or Kirk and Shatner says something like, "'Sorry, I'm from Montreal, this is my first time in Toronto too..." Yeah, I know, it's a bit much but it would have been amusing.
I can understand the apprehension at the overall idea of "Do you kill Hitler?" but I think it's supposed to be the thesis of the episode itself and the message, to me at least, is pretty clear: Weither in terms of an individual or an entire society, we are all defined by the hardships we endure. It is through our darkest days we find the light within ourselves and if you pluck that darkness from your own timeline there is no telling who or what you will become. It's a message I connect with a lot and it's one that makes me look at this episode as one that is very poignant and very beautiful.
I have my favorite episodes from every series. This will be one of mine for SNW. The storytelling, character development. The touching moment with Khan as a child where they make him so innocent was touching. The final scene if you don’t cry and feel for her I have to say WOW.
Khan Noonian-Singh will go on to commit a hundred times the atrocities of Adolph Hitler and that scene of her treating him with such empathy and gentility.
I loved this episode as well. It was such a great showcase for the character of La'an. It had a brilliant moral dilemma and alternate Kirk was just a fabulous character, so losing him had great impact not just for La'an but the audience.
Toronto, as a Canadian, was represented well here. I loved seeing a city I know playing itself!
Kirk eating Poutine made my day. And the New York joke killed me 🥲
I'm a Quebecer and I never thought I'd hear about some poutine in ST. Even less see Kirk eat one! 😁
Salutations!
I have a question. Was it really Toronto? I recognized cityscapes when they showed distance shots of the city, but was it actually Toronto on the street level shots? When the X-Files movie came out, they claimed to be in Dallas, Texas. Having been to Dallas many times, those street shots they used weren't Dallas. If they are going to claim to be in a particular city in North America, I'm sure that they could squeeze the budget a bit and actually film there.
@@randyallison3757Yes, it was absolutely Toronto. The Royal Ontario Museum is also used... in interesting ways.
Strange New Worlds, and previously Discovery, are both filmed in the Greater Toronto Area.
@@randyallison3757 they also had behind the scenes shots where people in the city were noticing them filming in Yonge and Dundas Square (which is where they ended up when Kirk made the New York joke.) Because it's such a popular area to locals.
Why were they hiding the streetcarsm again? In Dundas Square and across from Eaton Centre, they could have had them in the background. Did see streetcar tracks.
One easter egg you missed was the prominent "Taxi" that pulled up to Pellia's Vermont shop, a reference to Carol Kane's first major tv role.
Simka!
RIGHT! :)
@michaelstern Outstanding!! 🚕
Brilliant!
I know Strange New Worlds is supposed to be a "WHAT IF" UNIVERSE" where Pike commanded the Enterprise rather than Kirk. But I'm curious as to what other events will be significantly altered in this new timeline.
We've seen the possible results from the Romuluan incident. Will Pike ultimately replace Kirk as Star Fleet's Greatest Starship Captain? In this timeline?
Akin to the alternative destiny shown to Picard?
Time Will Tell.
Or possibly Q?
Yes. The gun and La’an “disappearing and leaving the bedroom door open” were all issues for me. Also why did that security door stay unlocked for SO long? They put such a high level of security (hand print access,) but then leave it unlocked for way too long.
Also when it WAS unlocked and they were confronted by Sera, Kirk should have put his hand on it. It would either lock or inform security or both.
So the gun and door issue might be what caused the Eugenics War - Khan escapes that day, kills a few people as he escapes and slowly rises to power over 40% of the world in the next 10 years.
The security door staying unlocked annoyed me as well. I have enough trouble with the 5-15 seconds a lot of security systems use.
My thoughts too (the episode had a number of flaws like this I felt which all were jarring but still a good episode)
These 3 episodes have all been pretty fantastic so far. All been really well written, sensitive, funny and intelligent, Its just a great series, no complaints.
I love SNW. I cannot say it enough. I get the same emotional boost I used to get when I first saw the original series. Three winning episodes in a row. New Kirk is growing on me. Anson Mount as Chris Pike was an inspired decision. La'an has won me over. While Spock seems to be almost comic relief in this series, La'an is the stranger in a strange land. She is the one, the loner, I can relate to. She might be the first Star Trek character to actually drag a tear out of me.
“…new Kirk growing on me” - yes, me too - was not keen at all on him at first…
The way little Kahn says “Have you come to kill me?” This had me asking how many times has this kid survived assassination attempts? How many of those were time travelers?!
Not only is this the best episode of the season so far it's probably one of the best episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen.
You and I are very different Star Trek fans.
@@robertbeste ok...well I've been a fan since the early 70s so probably true.
I love Sarcasm.
I am actually also surprisingly impressed by this episode.
I wasn't sure I was liking this episode until the end, when the impact of what just happened fully lands on La'an, and on us. Christina's performance was devastating.
And now we have a deeper relationship with her character than even her crewmates do. Great episode, must watch again.
My favorite bit not mentioned in the Ups & Downs, after Kirk hustled half of Toronto chess players, he dismissed traditional 2D chess as 'Idiots Chess' 😂
that remark was completely unnecessary, if you think it is - do you go around calling children idiots because you're (maybe) slightly more educated?
This might have been an Easter egg pointing to Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick, in his youth, made money by playing chess in outside parks.
@@dsfs17987 way to be equally condescending towards someone who found a line in a show funny, thanks for being the moral gatekeeper what jokes in the show we are allowed to laugh at. 👏🏼
Congratulations should be given to the town of Riverside, IA. I believe this is the first time it's been explicitly stated as James Kirk's birthplace. It's a claim to fame they've celebrated for some time, and they've been good stewards of the honor. It's nice to see them canonized officially.
Just like Linlithgow being the birthplace of Scotty!
They just had their Trek Fest last week!
In fact one of quibbles I had with the Revolving Door scene was "Aren't you from Riverside? Did the Casino not have Revolving Doors?!"
And now... we Torontonians can basically go and say that we got Khan... :|
With the picture of the Bird of Prey in the sky, it is pretty much exactly the same position of the Enterprise in the atmosphere, just like in TOS Tomorrow is Yesterday.
Did Birds of Prey of that era have cloaks, because….
many of the filming locations were dear to my heart... Kirk cuffed at CIBC Commerce Court, hot dogs on Queens Quay Harbourfront Centre, racing the van on York Street, Kirk is shot in the Bahen Centre UofT, Royal Ontario Museum for the kiss... startling to see all my old haunts in one Star Trek episode omg
I thought the USS Iowa joke was great, whether or not one finds it "obvious". And the timeline has been totally changed, so who even knows if there was a USS Kelvin anymore? Maybe a missed opportunity, but I don't think that deserved a down.
Personally, I would have found a Kelvin reference to be more obvious and less fun.
Yeah, I disagree wholeheartedly with Sean saying it should have been the Kelvin. That would have been stupid in my opinion. Since USS Kelvin is from another timeline, the original name before JJ changed it was USS Iowa. Considering this Kirk is from a transient race of humans who live in starships, it would stand to reason that most ships would be named after locations on the destroyed Earth. Not JJ Abrams's relatives. At the end, we also get the reaffirmation that Prime Kirk was born in Iowa on Earth, which has become a bit of a debate in recent years.
I was fine with the USS Iowa joke. I personally felt it would have worked better if during the call to Prime Kirk at the end that La'An told Kirk she was trying to clear up Sam's record because he claims he was born on the USS Kevin. Kirk laughs and mentions how he picked a real ship this time as at his last command he said he was born on the USS Iowa
Me too. Also, if you said Kelvin that would mean the universe had radically changed based on the events of the episode in 2022 which would have radically changed the destiny of the Romulan empire (which was the entire point of the episode after all) but then somehow still the Romulan star would have been destroyed with the exact same crippling loss to the Romulans who wouldn't have spread further afield when there was no Federation etc etc... It would have been a massive contrivance that would have been far more worthy of a down than the USS Iowa reference.
Came here to say this, agree completely!
I ADORED this episode. Firstly, Christina Chong's performance at the end in her quarters BROKE ME. also, the inclusion by the writers to explain why theres a difference between the TOS eugenics war timeline and the new series - *chef's kiss*
as always keep up the good work, trekculture. 🖖🏻
It just makes sense to retcon Khan and the Eugenics Wars at this point. Unless they're willing to say ST branched off from an entirely alternate "modern" history, certain events need to be pushed farther out.
@user-do2ev2hr7h Well this fits with Gene as well, retconning this stuff from TOS to fit better is fine, he wouldn't care. And particularly the exact dates don't really change all that much so long as there is time before 2063 (of which there are 40 years).
I definitely agree. It feels like something that Gene would have done himself had he lived long enough because it just makes sense. I never mind changes to canon when they're handled like this. I remember a quote by Nimoy that says "canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minute. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and say 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now?'."
As a casual fan, I loved the in-series reason for a sliding timeline. I thought it was a fun solution.
Sean, I know this is a random time, but I just wanted to say thank you for these reviews. I don't feel like I've watched a whole episode of these new Treks until I've watched your reviews. I am a life-long Trek fan, growing up in the 1970s when I used to watchem with my dad. He just passed away this year and I don't feel like I have anyone to talk about them to. Watching your ups and downs fills that hole for me, at least a little. Thank you again!!
I work in Toronto, I know all the spots where they shot on location for this episode. Just proud to see my home & native land represented in Star Trek. Much like City on the Edge of Forever from the original series, this time travel tale ends in necessary heartbreak to preserve the future.
Yeah, that hit me too. 🖖🏼🙏🏼
As far as La’an’s fight with the Romulan, she’s confirmed as of last episode to be an augmented person, at least by heritage if not directly. She has outdrank a Klingon with blood wine which by the way gave Spock, a half-Vulcan, a hangover, has good enough eyesight to match the zoom lens of a camera, and is tough enough and strong enough to take hits from a Romulan and hit the Romulan hard enough to at least be a viable threat, so I don’t see the problem with their fight.
Also she said she had augmented strength when she fought Number One so was surprised when One was stronger.
But... given her last name, I believe Starfleet would have double checked if she was augmented or not even before entering Starfleet's academy. And if she was, she would have definitely been rejected.
@@mike.t.angelo The rule is that YOU are not allowed in Starfleet if you've undergone genetic manipulation. It says nothing about your offspring. I honestly can't imagine the Federation adopting a "one-drop rule."
@@mike.t.angeloas demonstrated in the last episode. Starfleet rules regarding descendants of people who were genetically enhanced are murky. I wouldn't be surprised tbh if the rule does not apply to natural born offspring of genetically enhanced people
Also she works for star fleet I’m sure she has been trained with how to fight stronger opponents like Klingons
Will have to say the USS Iowa joke actually is a plus because it set it up for a huge reveal that confirms that the Kirks are from Riverside, Iowa. I’m from Iowa, and Riverside celebrates that they are the future birthplace of Captain Kirk. But it’s only been speculated because of the Riverside Shipyard in Star Trek 2009. But 100% validated in this episode. The town in real life is amazing. They celebrate Trek every year with a parade. The crosswalk paint on the streets have the Starfleet delta symbol on them. It was definitely a win for us Iowans to hear on screen!
I'm so glad they cast Christina in this role. I became a fan of hers after Line of Duty. This is probably my 2nd favorite episode, so far. Also, M'Benga is quickly becoming my favorite Dr.
The musical accompaniment in the kissing scene was a riff on the music from the scene with Edith Keeler from TOS. This episode is a homage to “City on the Edge of Forever.” Thus tragedy was appropriately foreshadowed.
As soon as I saw them walking the way they were with him in that brown coat I started getting Vity on the Edge of Forever vibes. Brilliant homage!
La'an being basically shattered emotionally after her call to Kirk? I bet Kirk would have a VERY receptive ear after "City On the Edge of Forever" about feeling absolutely destroyed by the experiences of needing to let great tragedy happen to ensure a better future...and the sacrifice of an innocent you had developed feelings for.
Well, you know, Kirk always gets the girl! 😘
@@PeachLee858 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@generalilbis Well, yes but COTEOFE hasn't happened yet. When it does happen, La'an and Kirk will have no idea that the other will have had similar experiences.
I’d like to point out that in A Quality of Mercy, the alternate future La’an is warm and open with Pike going as far as to hug him. She’s serving aboard Kirk’s Farragut as well. This shows how much she’s opened up possibly due to Kirk. Just something to ponder based on their chemistry from this episode.
It says a lot that I like La'an's character as much as I do in spite of the fact that it is obvious she only exists in this form because the producers clearly loved Drummer from the Expanse (as do I) and wanted their own version for this show. The tough, no nonsense attitude, the black eyeliner and the actress' mixed ethnicity (Chong is half Chinese while Cara Gee is half indigenous Canadian ) are dead giveaways. The acting chops Chong displays this episode are truly impressive. I look forward to more episodes focusing on her character.
To me this is the first real Star Trek episode since Enterprise. It had a start, a plot, a resolution, a moral story, ... basically everything you'd expect from a typical Star Trek episode. Frankly, I did not see that coming. Miracles do happen, thanks to everyone who made that happen.
Princess Bride reference: Pelia “We’re closed!” Miracle Man: “We’re closed!”
To be clear, the Romulan agent said she, "had to wait", and, "got stuck". This seems to me to imply that however she ended up in the past it was a one way trip, so there was no incursion in 2022 to be detected, if this is the case.
Nice catch!
Damn, that fits, we never did hear when Tallinn arrived on Earth plus the events of Picard season 2 take place in 2024.
Le'an and Kirk's arrival should have been detected, though.
Yep, came here to say that. Sara has been there at least since 1994, it would seem unlikely Tallinn was around then too.
She did age very well, wating for 30 yrs an still Looking mid 20s.
Holy smokes, this was an incredible episode. Written and acted well. People watch this one!
might be the best modern Star Trek episode. Felt very classic TREK
I found it hilarious that alternate Kirk thought Toronto was New York. Perhaps it was lampshading other shows/movies that shoot in Canada and pretend its New York or some other city in USA?
And Tenaya 7/Mary Stuart/Adelaide Kane still looks like a teenager to me. She has got to share her skincare routine!
add to the irony, in the scene with all the emergency vehicles with close-but-not-quite Toronto emergency services liveries, there is a stunt double ambulance from the Fire Department of New York. You can see the FDNY retroreflective paint on the roof in the wide shot
Definitely what they were doing, and it wasn't exactly subtle. :)
THAT'S WHO THAT WAS!! My God, I loved her in _Reign_
That's definitely shade how movies and shows use Toronto as a stand-in for NYC (almost always NYC).
Yes, as a Torontonian myself, I took that as a subtle reference to how often films and shows that take place in New York or Chicago are actually filmed in Toronto. It's so rare to see something filmed in Toronto that's actually set there, and that made this episode really delightful for me!
This episode was gold. And gut wrenching for li’an at the end. Bless her. She started out alone and possibly finished even more alone. 10/10
I reckon Pelia's real reason for boarding the enterprise was to ensure the events of this episode happened. She would have remembered meeting Kirk And la'an in 2022 and had to wait for the point from which they travelled from in the future to arrive.
She planted the idea in La'an's mind about Vermont and her living there in the past early in the episode. The fact that the watch in La'an's quarters at the end of the episode tells me that this storyline may not be finished and we may get an answer to your question about Tallinn not knowing about what Sera was up to.
I think you paused the wrong moment of Pelia at the end. Her initial look when she saw La'an was one of realization, as she couldn't had known when La'an would go back in time. I thought she played it really well and that it was a cool moment. Hoping she will talk to La'an about it at some point.
I completely agree, these episodes are getting better as the season continues. Christina showing her range as a tremendous actor, making absolutely amazing choices with a very good script was so much fun to watch. I'm excited to get Anson Mount back full time to join this wild ride.
Glad I wasn't the only one that caught her leaving the gun in child Khan's room. Seems like quite the oversight. How did they not catch that?
That would be ... Chekhov's Gun.
Where was she going to take it? Back with her? I'm sure Khan is smart enough not to shoot himself as security took their sweet time getting there and they'll take it.
That gun would have been confiscated by the security guards coming down the hallway pretty quick especially since it was just used to kill a number of people. It wouldn't be with the kid for long.
I thought it would have been great to show those guards that were coming down the hall running into the room, the sound of gunfire and bodies hitting the floor, and then the kid leaving the room with a security card to free the other kids.
I wouldn't presume it was an oversight. I actually thought it was very intentional. Maybe the young Khan immediately hides the gun and waits for the right moment to use it and free himself from captivity, all because La'an forgot about it. Cause/Effect and her actions integrate into the timeline.
This episode was so good - it gave me such City on the Edge of Forever vibes to an extent - only with Kirk as the guy who might need to die to save the timeline and La'an in the Kirk role of deciding whether or not to stay in an altered timeline - only in this case both of them *know* the potential ramifications- so they both have more agency. And it's just... so well done. Christina Chong absolutely killed this episode. Seeing her break down at the end- it hurt. It hurt a lot. And Paul Wesley was *phenomenal*. There were laughs, there were tears, there were beautifully done philosophical arguments. It was beautiful. (And apropos of nothing, I laughed so hard at Spock in a bathrobe with his lute getting a noise complaint! I died laughing!) So good!
And while I definitely agree with you that what they were able to pay for was ridiculous - I did appreciate that they had Kirk hustle *chess*. The fact that Kirk is a nerd is so frequently ignored and so I do appreciate them showing him being not just tactical but also book smart and somewhat nerdy! The book with legs! Like they could have gone pool or poker- they went chess. I love it!
I think you are missing a couple of points Sean: 1. Kirk NOT being born in the USS Kelvin, could mean the Kelvin Timeline is different from the Strange New Worlds Timeline. 2. The whole Episode centered on La'an is to raise something you missed: The beginning is to show how lonely she feels, and how Kirk finds her, and she finally feels connected to someone, only for that someone to die, and when she goes back to the future (see what I did there?) she tries to grasp at that "ghost" of a connection by calling Kirk, and she finds out that the only person she connected to, has dissapeared and "this" Kirk is nothing like the man she kissed, THAT was the whole point, her loneliness from being "augment" returned hit her on the face, that's the tragedy of this episode!!! and it seems to have flown in the face of the breakdown.
You forgot the scene where Kirk gets into the red Charger and can’t figure out the gears, then backs into a car like he did in ‘A Piece of the Action’. Saw it coming!
Came here to say that. It seemed like the most obvious nod to that episode and I'm stunned he didn't even mention it.
That wasn’t a charger, that was a HELLCAT Challenger, and he had the RED KEY which meant he had FULL ACCESS to ALL 717HP that the 6.2L Supercharged Hemi V8 engine makes!
As a redeye owner I’m glad that SRT is now canonical
Bold move of Star Trek to film Toronto for Toronto, rarely seen.
Being from Toronto and being a Trekkie, this is literally a dream come true. It is so awesome!
I really like that the overriding theme to this season has been the "doing what is right" and as a Canadian it was nice to see us in the spotlight.
Same. Canada is rarely, if ever, given centre stage in these kinds of stories. As if the only nation that has any impact on the world and history, is just a few kilometres to the south.
Though, that is why I wish they just said Pelia lived somewhere in Canada instead of Vermont. If it's supposed to be an isolated community, then just say Northern Ontario, nowhere more isolated than that. I know, I used to live there.
@@theblackwidower However, one BIG advantage to Vermont is it's size. Vermont is much smaller and more compact than Northern Ontario. Meaning that it would be much easier for them to find Pelia there, than if she lived in Canada. But I do take your point.
Classic Trek story at it's best. Reminded me so much of City on the Edge of Forever
The USS Iowa thing feels like a deep cut to the early drafts of Star Trek '09, where the Kelvin was called the USS Iowa.
kirk (on some timelines) is also from Iowa.. is he not?
Or like how this Kirk dying by gunshot is also a callback to how Kirk originally died on Veridian 3 in Generations
I forgot about that
@@sceneinvegas He is, but early in the writing of '09 they had the idea to make that timeline's Kirk "born in Iowa" in a different way i.e. born on a starship called Iowa instead of in the state. I think they eventually realized that would just be kind of a silly coincidence.
@@JayStrang1kirk’s birth on the Kelvin roughly coincides with the divergence of the Kelvin timeline and the prime timeline, so Kirk not being born on the Kelvin is a retcon. That is to say that Star Trek 2009 starts in the prime universe up until the point where the Nerada emerges, and Kirk’s mom was in labour on the Kelvin before that.
Every episode this season has been better than the last. Loved this episode and Peli is quickly becoming my favorite character this season.
A pity that you didn't mention that Kirk changed his opinion about erasing his altered timelime once La'an mention that Kirk's brother is still alive in her timeline 😊
I just finished watching the episode. I was hoping for a low key cameo from Brent Spiner, but for the most part this episode didn't disappoint. I enjoyed that the are running with the Temporal Cold War from Enterprise. While that arch is a bit shaky, the fact that humanity place is such an important part in the prime timeline that other forces are willing to fudge around with time says a lot.
Missed opportunity?
Not playing Kirks voice monologue during the opening credits.
It happens right after the timeline switch reveal.
Because of the CHANGES you probably couldn't replay Shatners old voice monologue but the differences would have been cool to hear anyway.
Would have been a great opportunity, similar to the way the ST: ENT titles were changed up for the two-parter in the mirror universe. Paul Wesley saying the words, and changing up some of the shots I’m the sequence.
That point about Talon is completely valid. What's worse is the two shows are being made at around the same time, so while they have different premises, you would think that in an area where they have overlap, they would communicate with one another to make sure that it stays consistent.
Talim would never have heard about Sera since Sera was there 30 years by then.
Awesome Episode! A new spin on City on the Edge of forever.
Would’ve loved to have the Lady from the future in a Relativity Uniform
As a resident of Toronto I was over the moon with this episdoe, I've been to almost every location seen in this episode
USS Kelvin might not have existed because Starfleet doesn't exist. I liked the USS Iowa substitution, as humans seem very isolated in this Kirk's timeline.
This honestly may be one of my favorite episodes of all Star Trek now. It was done SO WELL
For me I thought the ending was as heartbreaking as the end of "Inner Light" and she ends up with a talisman just like Picard did. How can Lian ever look at Kirk or that watch again and not be taken right back into her experience in that alternate timeline? The only thing that makes this episode one step behind "Inner Light", "Yesterday's Enterprise" or "City on the Edge of Forever" are two of the downs that were given in this video, 1) That hotel room is wayyyyy too posh. My thought when that scene was playing was How are they affording this room? They should have been at some flea-bag motel on the outskirts of Toronto. Maybe I'm wrong and Toronto has extremely affordable hotel rooms in their downtown area. 2) When they show them making their way into Vermont my thought was How the hell did they cross the border? I don't care how much you bribe a border guard you can't cross without some form of ID. You have to have a passport to cross back and forth into Canada/USA at this point. There are plenty of unprotected crossing points on the Canadian/US border and it may have worked better if they were seen walking through the woods of Vermont bickering about how long it was taking or some such thing. Even with those two major plot points taking me out of the episode for a moment I still think this is one of the best Star Trek shows I've ever seen, Top 20 at least.
Top twenty Trek show ? 🤓🇺🇦🤣
I couldn't agree more.... esp. with #2. My first thought too was how the hell did they get across without passports? Let alone the cash (which grew far too quickly for playing chess, maybe poker at a casino or pool hustling but not chess) but they could have hitch hiked most of the way too.... And yes, the hotel room. Too posh. but my real question here is, how did they get the room without a credit card? except for flea bag motels, most hotels require a CC for incidentals (ahem: mini bar anyone?).... just sayin'....
Oh, I thought it was an apartment they rented and made a remark about even Frasier Crane would think it pricey. Still WAY too extravagant for Kirk to pay for from chump change hustling 2D chess in the park.
I thought Kirk's trouble with the car was not a throwback to the Kelvinverse, but a much deeper throwback to TOS: A Piece of the Action, where Kirk and Spock commandeer a "Flivver" (old timey gangster car), and Kirk has heckuva time getting (and keeping) the thing moving!
Yass 🙌🏼💪🏼🙏🏼🖖🏼
Exactly 👊🏼🖖
Honestly it's amazing that we're getting episodes dedicated to individual members of the crew. You know, so we can actually be introduced to them personally and dive into their character. Looking at you Star Trek: Discovery. I can barely name anyone from the bridge crew from that show now looking back at it.
For me, that was the WORST part of Discovery. The bridge crew came across as glorified extras.
It's been four seasons and I couldn't tell you anything about Rhys. In fact, I thought his name was spelled "Reece" until a looked it up yesterday.
That was a concious choice I think for the first two seasons, then when they tried to rectify it, it was bit too little to late.
@@posindustries Wait is he the first Welsh character then?
I absolutely stan _DSC_ but even I acknowledge that this is their biggest weakness.
Part of that Macbeth scene was also quoted by everyone's favorite Shakespeare quoting Klingon General Chang in the old PC game Klingon Academy. I know it's probably not considered part of canon, but I thought it was a fun game that had a lot of great cameos plus the fact that they got Christopher Plummer to reprise his role.
You missed a HUGE Easter Egg when Kirk and La’an take a taxi to find Pelia. Carol Kane’s breakout role was on the ‘70s sitcom Taxi.
He may not have seen the series and / or be too young to have casually watch it when it aired.
Him not being born on the Kelvin was an up for me. Beyond the fact that it's a totally different timeline from either of these, I'm glad that the JJ verse seems to be existing now in it's own little bubble and I think the ship being named Iowa was totally the way to go. I think also confusing Sing with Soong with Singh was more of a callback to the story behind Roddenberry first naming Khan and then Dr. Soong those names to try and find a war buddy of his, or something along those lines. Seems like honestly Trek going forward is doing its best to ignore things like season 2 of Picard and I'm all for it. Plus the fact that Talon didn't interfere in this could be the fact that she already knew this would resolve itself without her intervention or her being a totally different group from the temporal agents. This episode deals with a lot more paradoxes than I think were really brought up in this video. For one, I think the fact that they address why Khan is just a child in 2022 is huge. It accounts for a lot more than just that. I think that also accounts for things like the Enterprise being totally different. In TNG etc they always showed the 1960's enterprise but by Picard it was this new one. I think that's because of a timeline change. And I also think that La'an telling Pelia about engineering was a bit of a causality loop. If she never goes back in time, already knowing she's an engineer, does she ever become an engineer? Overall great episode and from this I honestly think Christina could land a lead role in a show after SNW is over. She's always been good in this, but this episode gave her a chance to show just how good she can be.
Agreed - If he's born on the Kelvin then the timeline is closed because of this episode it would close the Kelvin timeline off anyway (bad) plus the premise of multiple timelines and different changes making new ones would be lost.
Absolutely agree - this is not the Kelvin-Timeline Kirk. Also being born on the USS Iowa matches to with what the romulan agent says: time pushing back, trying to repair itself. If Kirk can't be born in Iowa, then he is born on the Iowa.
I just hope that divers' watch doesn't end up going back in time to 'become' the one in the archæological, like with Kirk's glasses. We'd have to find some reason why the watch doesn't decay to nothing, to say nothing of the radioactive material running out of half life
@@quantisedspace7047 Can't - they took the glass off remember
Wasn't the Kelvin's original name the Iowa?
Thank you to all involved with Ups & Downs. I have no real trek friends. And I enjoy having this show to watch after I watch an episode. Sometime I enjoy your show more than the episode itself. And my compliments to who ever made the choice to use that wonderful sunrise timelapse while Sean was reading at the end. That was probably the most pleasing timelapse I have ever seen. Great Job
So glad you spotted La'an leaving the gun in the child Khan's bedroom - eventually!
It jumped out at me straight away - such a good Security Officer!
I'm so glad you mentioned the gin being left in the room, I was sat there screaming at the screen sayin "you've left the flipping gun!"
As a Canadian Ioved this episode plus I have been to Toronto too so extra cool, yes I know the show is filmed in Toronto but still nice to see our selfs represented.
Well, go drink a jug of maple syrup and STFU.
I completely forgot that DS9 had a character from Canada (Eddington). But Canada has never really featured. It's about damn time!!!
@tiacho2893 yeah I remember he talked about missing his Toonie that one episode.
Also the helms men on that Star trek lower decks episode was Canadian.
I've been a Star Trek fan since the Original Series was on the air in the 1960's. I think Strange New Worlds is the best ST series so far.
It’s absolutely walking in the footsteps of greatness.
This show could very easily usher in a new era of Trek, akin to TNG taking the reigns in the 90s.
I started watching Trek in the 80s, starting with TOS reruns and TNG in 1988. TOS is still the best, but SNW is great.
I mean respectfully it's not.
It's just not.
Tos, ds9, TNG, ent, voy, Picard season 3, ld, snw, prodigy............ discovery, Picard s 1 and 2.
In that order.
TNG is the best Star Trek series, followed by TOS. SNW is okay. But, it looks like a superstar compared to the other new Trek shows. I would place it between 3rd place DS9 and 5th place Voyager. It's just that SNW is much more Star Trek than whatever the heck those other shows being made now are supposed to be.
@@scottyncc wrong, DS9, TNG, SNW, TOS, VOY, Lower decks, enterprise, PIC s123, prodigy, discovery.
Can't say enough good about this new series! Great writers, great actors, great special efects,
A masterpiece! Right up there with City on the Edge of Forever" and among the top ten Trek episodes of all time! Strange New Worlds is turning out to be the best Trek since TOS, capturing perfectly the inspirational vibe of TOS!!!! This goes to show that single episodes stories are better than tiresome story arcs!
Though, amazed that you didn’t give a Latium up to the Vulcan admiral having a slight smirk in last weeks episode when then defence was summing up. Loved that he was cock-a-hoop with the sheer logic on display as she won the case. Brilliant that he was unable to contain the slight smile
Definitely - it also showed that he wasn't a comic-book moustachio-twirling supervillain, he just held a certain opinion based on the evidence he had, until he was presented with new evidence which altered that opinion, exactly as a good Vulcan should. The ability to disagree respectfully, and make arguments logically, is something we sorely lack in this day and age and something which the Federation would have to possess in order to be the organisation it is.
@@Mcsqwagreed 🙌🏼👊🏼🖖🏼
The bitter end sort of reminds me of the ending of City on the Edge of Forever, with La'an having an empty feeling like Kirk did... 😏
As I watched the episode, I noticed her leaving the gun in the boy's room, and thought, "Sean's gonna give that a down for sure." Really surprised he let it slide.
Graduated in 1993. Senior English we had to recite that line. Senior English was my lowest grade when I graduated Highschool but I remember that line vividly.
Interesting that Seán saw the Iowa as a joke. I took it more as time doing what it could to stay on track.
The money thing bothered me as well. Doing a quick count of the money, there only seems to be around $100 - which if it is exactly that, it's a funny Easter Egg as that's how much Kirk's glasses were worth in the Voyage Home.
There's no way they afforded that hotel room and the roughly 16 hours it takes to get to Vermont and back is a HUGE detour.
It helps to have _Friends_ . (There's no way the characters in _Friends_ could have afforded where they lived in that series.)
I don’t know why they picked Vermont, they could have just said in the earlier scene that she used to live in Toronto, or even a city relatively close, like Windsor or Niagara or Kingston or something. And they could have also solved the pricing issues (and that also stuck out to me, in the “how did they afford to stay in a place that would cost thousands of dollars a night”) by just putting them in a motel or something.
Was the cab a Vermont cab... perhaps they flew and took a cab from the air port and back.
@@therizinosaurus214 Flying would still cost big bucks. Plus they'd need I.D. and passports. Plus the airport searches. Plus getting to and from the airports. Yadda yadda.
Headcanon: one of the people Kirk defeats in chess is a “data thief” who gives Kirk two forged credit cards in place of legal tender.
During the kissing scene the music quotes heavily (altho rephrases it a bit) the first motif of Strangers in the Night by Bert Kaempfert, it was so à propos and well done
That episode from Next Generation, Tapestry, talks about the butterfly effect very well and it displays it very well. 🙂
Dude, Capt Kirk in a Hellcat had me absolutely rolling!!😂 I love Trek and tech and I also love cars so that just made my day!
Kirk confusing Toronto for NYC, had me proper snorting coffee out my nose...especially as a Torontonian and as someone whose lived and worked downtown where all the filming goes on. Here's the inside joke for all those not in the know. Toronto has always been the "step in" for major US cities like Chicago and especially NYC, and is very rarely ever given the chance to represent as itself on screen. Movies like Tuxedo (I saw the car chase seen going across Adelaide st), My Big Fat Greek Wedding (totally saw the Danforth there, a street famous for their Greek restauraunts), XXX State of the Union, Pacific Rim, the live action Resident Evil movies, Short Circut, I think most of the Police Acadamy movies, and so many more. Only recently it seems that Toronto is finally being allowed to portray itself like in Turning Red, A Man From Toronto, and The F Word.
Vancouver has the same inside joke. I love seeing the north shore mountains in movies where the city that's supposedly on screen is totally flat.
@@koohikoo The first movie that brought Jackie Chan to fame in the west was Rumble in the Bronx (1995), where Jackie's character comes to New York City on family business. You can tell it's New York because you can clearly see the NORTH SHORE MOUNTAINS of VANCOUVER in many of the wider shots.
I haven't been a big fan of La'an. But, this episode greatly started to change my feelings for her. She was great in this episode!
This show has a maturity beyond it's age. The actors feel like they are comfortable around each other like they have been working together for years. The writers and directors seem to have a well-thought-out and complete view of the characters. Their motivations and what they would and wouldn't do in any given situation. That's the kind of well-roundedness you usually see in season 4 of Star Trek series.
"This show has a maturity beyond it's age" . . . True, except for the mindless and idiotic casting of Kirk of this guy who has absolutely no embodiment of any kind to the character we all love. He is the complete antithesis of everyhting we've ever seen from anyone else who played that character.
PLEASE REPLACE HIM......
As someone who had zero knowledge of this episode prior to watching it and being from Toronto. I absolutely squealed when I saw Nathan Philips Squares. I quite literally recreated that one DiCaprio meme pointing to the TV
I thought Kirk confusing Toronto for New York might be a Hollywood in-joke given how often productions have filmed in Toronto to save money on a film allegedly set in New York.
@@timothyhennon1510 oooooooh great point!!
Fellow Canadian and I was visiting Toronto most recently just 2 weeks ago. Literally squealing at all the things I recognized!
@@timothyhennon1510The in-joke is that they film in Toronto but Kirk had never been to Earth so of course he could confuse T.O. for NYC.
The only issue I have basing the episode in Toronto means that Khan Noonian-Singh is technically Canadian, and I don't know how to feel about that.
Kirk’s family may not have onboard the Kelvin in this timeline, as there was no Starfleet. In this timeline, Spock wasn’t in the Starfleet that never was, and so no Romulans would be there to chase after him - they already wiped out the Earth anyway. No problem with a U.S.S. Iowa! Also, no Kelvin timeline…
With the war with the Romulans ongoing, too, that explains (possibly) Sam’s death, and Kirk already being promoted to Captain.
What confused me was the changes to the Khan timeline, as you stated. Does this change “Space Seed”?
Space Seed never happened, Khan never existed, the Eugenics War never occured.
You know the rude expression...opinions are like.... everyone's got one. Here's mine. My opinion, that is. This is THE BEST ST since TOS. Period. No arguments. It's fast and fun. The episodes are tied together but the the storylines don't go on and on, forever. This was tremendous fun and thus far, as much as I enjoyed the first few episodes of the first season, Im enjoying these more. It doesn't hurt that some of this episode was filmed just down the street from where we live. We watched it the day it was shot. The antique store is actually an antique store in Clarkson Ontario, about 5 km's from Toronto and its as crappy in real life as it looked on screen. LOVE IT!
I loved this episode! The Kirk-La'an stuff was all brilliant! Kirk's chess hustle and the car chase were great! And who doesn't love a nice hot plate of Poutine? I know the title of this one gets everybody's acknowledgement of the Shakespearean reference, but for me, what came to my head was I thought the final shot of La'an crying would have been well punctuated by the end of the song "Epitaph" by King Crimson--more specifically, the ending but, entitled "Tomorrow and Tomorrow", where Greg Lake endlessly sings "Yes, I fear Tomorrow I'll be crying...", as the song fades out.
This whole episode caught me in the feels. I don't want to spoil it for anyone but this was the best one yet. I had to watch it twice.
It's also great that Kirk got the same dubbing voice here in Germany as Chris Pine in the reboot movies.
It brings my heart so much joy that Carol Kane is now a party of the Star Trek family.
*part
That’s a very comprehensive ups and downs. Attaboy 🔥