New Alternator, Starter installed... Plus an E-Mag
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2021
- New Alternator, Starter installed... Plus aSure Fly E-Mag #FAIL Cessna 172B Glen's Hangar Episode #6
Explainer film on the magneto: archive.org/details/48244-the...
#CanucksUnlimited #GlensHanger #CFMVU
⚠️ NOTE: These videos are edited for time and entertainment. Editing removes context and can remove safety checklists in the interest of time. Do not use these videos for, or in lieu of flight training.⚠️ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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I like this mechanic, willing to teach, patient but also efficient.
My thoughts exactly. Every mechanic I've talked to wouldn't come close to doing this!
Right? Usually asking questions results in an angry mechanic and a bigger bill....but he clearly enjoys teaching!
He remind me a lot of the mechanic that services my truck fleet. Then my boss wonders why the labor charges are so high! He bills out half as much, but takes twice as long because he's TEACHING!
also a good sense of humor; another essential characteristic.
The father I never had. Oh well, at least I have my uncle. Computers are more of his thing though.
Chris should have his own channel! He's a great old school mechanic.
There's a short list of people you need to know and have in your "contact list". A reliable, honest mechanic is certainly one of the important ones. Interesting video. Thanks
I’d argue that ya don’t need a happy ending like an engine run up at the end of the video. Fixing an aircraft (with an excellent AME) is slow methodical work. Much like life there’s a zen to it.
Keep up the series! It’s great!
Very sorry to hear the factory let you down. Also, just now seeing this one. Thanks for the video. :)
Good food, cocktails, and now an airplane!? You guys are living the good life up there :-)
the dual spark plug explanation was great
That's going to be one beautiful aircraft by the time you're done with it. Thanks for taking us along on the adventure!
🚧🚧Outstanding Informative video 👍👍🧐Cheers 🍻🍻🚧🚧
I'm loving this series so far! Really looking forward to see the panel episodes :)
You forgot Top Fuel dragsters use Magnetos. Two mags with two plugs per cylinder also.
Great video Glen ,thank. You
Glenn I love these videos !
looking great friend!
awesome
I hope you keep this going, Glen. These videos are super interesting.
Great videos, thanks for sharing.
Sorry to hear about the Surefly. I just installed one on my Cherokee. If it makes you feel better I don’t see any performance improvements besides knowing that I have an electronic ignition for half the spark plugs.
That's too bad that there wasn't any improvement -
Glen, really enjoying this journey so far. Looking forward to future videos. Thanks for bringing us along!
I'm enjoying this series; I look forward to these videos. 🙂
I love listening to this mechanic.
Another enjoyable episode in the continuing drama of your B! Informative and educational.
Thanks for sharing your journey with us all Glenn. For those of us that are cooks and pilots this is amazing
Great mechanic
Wow! I love this mechanic it so amazing ,it also educating
I'm loving this series, I'm doing a similar overhaul/light resto/repaint with my o300 powered 175. Can't wait to see the finished article!
Nice video
I know nothing about planes but I'm watching this and loving it!
Top fuel drag racers also use magnetos.
(apologies if anyone else said this already)
I put a Sure fire on my 182.. It failed in flight... I put two new mags on my 1999S 182..Happy...
Fantastic video! love seeing the part compatibility troubles, really tells a better story when there are bumps in the road and not just smooth sailing.
Great series. I am really enjoying this. I’ve done a ton of work on my own Cessna and have more coming and I like seeing how you guys are going about this. I’ve learned valuable info in this episode such as an E-mag can’t go on my C-145 (older O-300) and I knew about having to cut off the shaft for the starter, but had never seen it done. Glad to see they give you that plastic piece. Keep the videos coming.
Glen, sorry for the frustrations you are experiencing, but it will be a stellar day when you go for your first flight in your beautifully restored Cessna... Love your channel.. Thanks for sharing!!!!
No interest in planes but finding this fascinating, thanks for sharing :)
Well, with any luck you have a fun spring coming up.
SureFly got some splainin to do!!!
Voice of the underworld on technical support.
I'll say it again... I know nothing about planes, but I am really enjoying this!
Great video. Compatibility issues when your working on older vehicles will always slow you down.
Man at $90-$100 dollarydoos an hour, that SureFlop is a real piss off! Imagine if that was the only repair on the plane and Chris went to all that trouble... yikes. I'm glad you didn't flush that magneto down the toilet as per the disposal instructions... you'd be digging up the septic tank the rest of the day!
Chrysler developed and introduced the alternator on their Valiant "compact" sedan back in 1960, the first year of the Valiant. It was their real-world test bed. The benefit was, it always generated electrical current when the engine was at idle whereas the generator did not. The success led to installing it on all Chrysler vehicles.
I enjoyed the episode immensely. Thank you, very educational. I own a C172G with an O300D and am an AME. It would have taken a lot of courage to cut off that shaft; I know it had to be done, but YIKES!
I know this is a year ago but maybe you'll see it. When i was in my teens i worked on a potato farm in the Fraser flood plains of Surrey B.C.
We had an old Case tractor that wasnt used for much more than running the irrigation pumps. It was great for this as it had a magneto ignition. The reason this was good is because if the tractor ran out of gas it stalled out and because of the mag it wouldn't kill the battery or burn the points. Another goid thing was we would get exactly 1 hour per gallon of gas. So if you needed the pump to run 3 hours you put in 3 gallons of gas. 5 hours, 5 gallons.
Occasionally the mag would go bad so we had 5 or 6 big boxes of them and you simply change it.
Those mags looked identical to the ones on you plane. I guess Case had a good thing so they were used on many different things.
Frustrating delay I'm sure, but it'll be worth it! These are fun to watch.
G'day from Australia. Loved this realistic episode. Warts and all. This is simply real life, whether its cars, houses or computers - some things don't work first time.
Just a suggestion, If in the future you have a remote FM mike for Chris to wear so we can hear him better, it would really make you both ("The Flying Fantastic Duo") even more captivating. But thanks for the summary you give so we can catch up. Its great. Love the Channel!
Really liking these Airplane restoration videos Glenn it's a real shame that Surefly dropped the ball on that E mag though hopefully you can get a new updated one that actually works in the future
With any big endeavour in life there will always be setbacks. That's life. It's how we work through those setbacks, those clouds, that rewards us with blue skies beyond.
That nose piece looks sleek! And if it's any consolation to your parts trouble, I'm sure these videos are really interesting to lots of us out here on the internet.
Another wonderful episode! About magnetos, they are still used in vitage bikes, too. Their charm is: the spark gains more power with revs going up. I'm a fan of lightweight. My idea is a BMW R75/5 café racer. (Original dry weight: 195kg. I wanna get down to a 160kg.) Also had some fun with electrics. My voltage regulator is DIY electronic. But that one comes with an 0,7V loss 'cause of the transistor (the original from 1972 has almost none), so I changed the little diodes in the rectifier with shottky ones. To compensate for at least 0,5V of that loss. Technic is fun!
Greetings from the far north of Germany!
And Snowmachines... or snowmobiles depending on your location... Some brands anyway, Up to/into the 90s, at least, still used/use a magneto.
Better to get it right. As an A&P. There are always 2 ways to do something. The right way and the wrong way. Can’t wait to watch the progress.
I'm glad I watched this. I'm working with an A&P to overhaul my C85 and was going to use a Surefly in place of one of the old Slicks. They have the same gear as the O-300C. Guess I need to use two Slicks.
The latest Evinrude outboard motors also use Magnetos
There are 2 magnetos on a top fuel (nitromethane) engine as well.....they have 2 plugs per cylinder.
On the starter. The small round housing is the starter motor. Under the 3 screw crescent moon cover is the solenoid that does several things. When the start circuit is engaged. The coil of wire creates a magnetic field and pulls the plunger rod in extending the drive gear into the ring gear. So it's not engaged all the time. As the plunger bottoms out the contact disc at the top of the plunger bridges the contacts. The battery power goes to the coil windings to spin the drive pinion that is now extended into the ring gear.
What is really interesting is the solenoid coil circuit. The ground side of the solenoid winding is connected to the solenoid output stud that connects to the starter motor. So as the solenoid has been sent power before the contact disc makes contact . The solenoid winding is grounded thru the brushes and armature. This creates a strong magnetic field known as the pull in circuit.
As soon as the solenoid contact disc bridges the contacts and sends battery voltage to the motor winding the solenoid winding has positive current on both sides but there is enough voltage drop across the disc. There is enough difference in voltage to keep the plunger held in. At a much reduced amp draw thru the solenoid winding. So the solenoid winding pulls 40 or 50 amps for a split second then drops to 15 or 20 amps to keep the starter engaged as long as you hold the start button in.
When you release the start button the circuit opens, the magnetic field created in the solenoid coil collapses. The spring allows the drive gear to retract as the contact disc on the plunger moves away from the fixed contacts so the starter stops spinning.
There is a major issue with these starters. You cannot control power to the starter big stud and the S terminal at the same time using a relay. If that happens . As the remote solenoid releases. Both circuits open. The armature spinning inside the permanent magnets becomes a generator and creates just enough current to keep the solenoid engaged and the drive gear extended into the flywheel. Causing the starter to stay engaged with the engine running for a few to 10 seconds. I have been a professional auto mechanic for 43 years. It's just to help you understand.
Oh. If the armature brushes wear out and dont touch the commutator. The solenoid won't have a ground for the pull in event. So it wont even click. You can tap lightly on the end of the round motor section. To get the brushes to make some kinda contact. Not really a great idea with that big fan blade wanting to spin a few feet away. But on cars and trucks it will get you going once or twice more.
Great videos, I enjoy watching the mechanical work and bringing the life back to a 1960 aircraft. Was wondering if you are keeping a running total of cost involved and can you share that from time to time as the build goes on? Thanks... Great project!
Use purple with a buffing wheel it works wonders on polishing a plane. Used it on leading edges on a beachjet
I believe they use mags on top fuel dragsters too.
Been watching since the beginning, such a great series so far. Send you re and re the old mag bill to SureFly, that's such a bad mistake on them and they should answer for it. Sadly there answer is you cant use it.
What i did with my rc model airplane alu polished parts was give the a good coat of clear lauqer. that saves you a lot of time polishing. give it a try on an old part as a test.
That sucks Glenn, but at least it seems like you have an awesome AME to work through it with. Funny, people talk about experimental and home built as though they are slung together with old garbage parts, and maybe some are, but experimental now have the most cutting edge in technology. As you mentioned the exact same parts are available for experimental at 1/3 the cost, and most new technology start in experimental aircraft. All of the awesome avionics you see were in experimental for years, you can get electronic ignition, and fuel injection for experimental now. Hopefully an RV 10 will be in my near future!
I know a couple of the Dynon guys (I live 20 minutes from their HQ) - good people and good products. Can't wait to see it all come together!
It's a little scary designing a clean sheet panel for a 60 year old plane - and then trying to implement it. Exciting at the same time.
The crew at Dynon has been super to work with, and I'll have an announcement video coming up with all the details of the project involvement.
@@GlensHangar - Very cool! Can't wait to see what you guys come up with. Once the bird's all together maybe you two can make a pilgrimage out here to Dynon HQ. :-)
Replacing that prehistoric regulator and generator was a great idea. Starter looked like a great upgrade. Too bad about the mag replacement.
I love the wee tractor
Kubota all the way!
That airport needs some Best Tugs!
On the next episode, Glen says, "While the cowling was off and we were in there, and the engine won't be running anytime soon, I kept looking at the valve covers and thought they didn't look very nice, so..........I've sent them off to be powder coated."
Older motorcycles still use magnetos also, didn't read comments to see if anyone mentioned this
Magnetos are still used on dragster engines. They make more spark energy as the RPMs increase. For aircraft, they provide spark independent of all other systems and each other so they increase overall reliability.
There was no Heat or Meat in this whole video. But I still Loved it!!
give props to chris for all of us
Thanks for sharing this adventure. I know you shared the purchase price, but do you have any plans to give ballpark pricing on the upgrades? It would just be interesting to know.
How did I not know Glen’s Hangar existed!!!
Hi Glen...enjoy watching your 172 videos, as a 172M owner, our projects have a lot in common. If I may make a suggestion, please place the episode number at the beginning of your title, it makes it much easier to figure the episode number while scanning the suggestions list, rather than having to click and open to see what episode it is. Looking forward to watching your progress. Last thing, with such a low time engine you have now, it doesn't seem to make a lot of financial sense to the swap to an 036 180hp engine. I looked into it a bit, and as far as I can tell your looking at 40k plus for the complete swap for my 172M , Good luck and keep at it !!!
Well gee whiz, if you’re gunna spend a couple more months on it, grab the STC and do the tail dragger conversion! Totally worth it 👍
Modern small engines don't use mags anymore either. They switched to CDI in the 90's.
this project's really taking off 😂
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say "I know a guy in Barrie"
Around here we all know a guy in either Calmar or Tofield.
I'm sorry that the SureFly didn't install for you. I see that they have changed the paperwork on their website to reflect your difficulty. I have one on my Mooney and It always started well with the old mags, but now it starts like a car. I originally installed it with the advance (it's legal down here in the states), but had to move to the traditional timing because I was running too hot. I also have the permanent magnet starter and that certainly helps with the starts.
With all that polish, it is going to remind me of the Farside Comic, of the trucker being ticketed for too much chrome. It may have actually been a Hermann comic strip.
Sorry for your misfortune, Glen. This thing will be awesome when it's done. Like everything else you do, you don't take shortcuts or the easy way out. Hope to see you here in WI at EAA someday.
Probably not until 2023 - Next year we'll be in Mexico City leading a tour with our cooking channel when EAA is on. But we're working on how to get to as many meet-ups as possible once C-FMVU is in the air.
Lawn mowers don’t use magnetos. Self contained diode based, no points. Use the magnets on the flywheel as a trigger for the diodes. This is a great project on this old 172. Finding it great fun. Learned to fly many years ago in Hamilton. Heart issues keeps me out of the cockpit.
Looks like Surefly has updated their installation guide. It now shows O-300 series and E series pending.
Get the Electroair system and you can use the manifold pressure advance.
Get the Big Hammer !
Evey heard of sprint cars, they use mags. Supermodifieds use them also, probably some have newer but probably anything that gets pushed off to start uses a mag
Yes there are probably dozens of combustion engines that use magnetos - and I will forever be grilled by the internet armchair critics because in the heat of the moment off the cuff comment I failed to list the possibly 100s of niche places that still use them.
If replacing mags, i would change the mag switch as well. Come across a few non starters due to worn mag switch contacts.
Lot to be said for the old individual mag switches and separate starter button.
As my father would say, why ruin a ship for a peneth of tar.
Honestly this series is moving far quicker than I anticipated, so I don’t mind at all if it takes a few more videos to get to the end. Take your time, I’m sure it’ll pay off
Please produce a channel for Chris. His work would be interesting to watch.
I think it’s called a sure fire it’s a modern electronic ignition with auto timing to move it to make more power and you can keep old mag for a back and they are the same price. They start way easier and runs smother setting on ramp and you go full power the timing is auto advanced. It’s the best money you will spend and if you shut you motor down for bath room break you won’t have to wait for it to cool off , this baby fires right when hot or cold hot , mproves fuel burn a 1/2 to one gallon less fueled and depending on plane and it my stay the same or use little less fuel. So please try this sure fly mag and you only have to buy one and other will be your back up .
man i was looking forward to swapping to an emag... not even going to think about that now...
Nice to see some progress. Did you try "Mothers Mag and Aluminum polish" yet? If you use it on the primer it might actually be effective for rubbing that off too.
I'm sticking to polishes that are certified for the alloys / cladded aluminum used on aircraft. Luckily the primer is gone at this point; it was a job but it's done.
Something tells me Chris is part of a Guess Who cover band, he has a very familiar voice
The only advantage the electronic ignition has is dynamic timing. You aren't allowed to use that feature so basically at the end of the day no advantage but more failure points. Just keep the mags.
Curious about the engine cowl when it comes to Post Polish. Are you concerned that you'll end up with excessive glare off of the cowl once it's polished? Have you thought about how to remediate that? Perhaps a Matt Black vinyl for the upper portion? (Which I think would look really kind of fantastic).
Painting an anti reflective area is on the list of jobs. Though it may not happen until next Spring.
I went to 3 local auto parts stores, I need a new new Dwell meter, none of the kids knew what it was for
That is an epic fail with Surefly! I was looking forward to seeing the install. Saw them at Sun N Fun a few years ago and was wondering when we'd see them for certified use.
Coming along nicely other than that though. The polished aluminum is going to look wicked.
What are your plans for the old starter? I might be interested, was it in working condition? Looks nicer than the one we have on our o-300
Magnetos are still used on antique gas engines I believe
Woah, who's bike at 14:12? Its just as pretty as the planes!
DANG!! I cut that rod off an 1/8 th to short. Now we’re going to have to tear the engine apart and replace it.
Never ask a question with a best guess answer.