I always look forward to your videos, I can watch the manufacturers propaganda from any brand and hear their opinion. But your videos are an honest real world depiction of the entire story. Thanks for that! However... I think you may have drank too much of the Deere Kool-Aid this time. The New Holland 340 baler will do everything that the JD baler will do. Flakes too big on the NH? That is easy to adjust with the lever on the left hand side of the baler. this will also give you control of the flakes per bale. As far as baling speed... the new Holland is in fact 3 plunger strokes per minute faster than the Deere, which means 3 more flakes in the chamber per minute as well as a faster ground speed (if the field is smooth enough!). I was honestly impressed with the Deere baler that was on demo around here in Wyoming, but there is no way that I would go away from either the NH or a Massey Ferguson for a LSB in North America!
I have used the massy 2170 for 5 years with a total count of 5357 started having major problems with stuffer clutch, holding fingers, and knotter. AGCOs response to the problem was throw the book out. We decided to bye the krone 1270 high speed. It has amazed me with the speed n density of the bail. They averaged 300 pounds heavier 3x4x8
+Fredrick Mechanical Do some real thorough research there's no way on Gods earth they changed 82% of the Kuhn LSB 1290 more like 5 or so items. Under the Kuhn agreement, John Deere sells rebadged Kuhn balers in Europe, CIS, northern Africa and the Middle East, and it bought the patent to the 2011 Kuhn design to develop its own version for the US and Asian markets, including Australia ! "John Deere redesigns Kuhn model to launch its new large square baler"www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/machine/john-deere-redesigns-kuhn-model-to-launch-its-new-large-square-baler/story-fnkerd2w-1227189660925
Good workaround on the sprocket. If you keep the new Holland for awhile,there are a number of things you can do to improve the chain situation....not perfection but might make it more of a predicted maintenance item. First thing: Instead of a tap job,thru drill completely thru and use a grade 8 thru bolt with a shoulder....more of a stud than a bolt. On the back side use a LARGE washer custom shaped to spread the footprint a little wider AND to correct any bend in the backing plate by welding the washer it to the back plate .IF you use weld pre-heat techniques you can actually have the weld correct the existing shaft angle when it cools off. Another thing to consider and evaluate is to consider adding a second aftermarket sprocket tensioner closer to where its needed (while lessoning the tension at the existing adjustment point). Your chain being so long has a LOT of stretch (you know that already) The simple act of running it for 30 minutes causes a thermal stretch that by itself, without wear ,would make it likely to fall off.Thermal stretch was common on the old motorcycles and can be easily seen on chainsaws. If you really stop and think about it....you can have a chain be 50 feet long and it work correctly IF you have enough tensioners at the right places (the side of the sprocket that is NOT under tension during operation)
how many knives were in those balers? Do you have the opp to weigh them? i guess the JD baler is the same as KUHN. they are good balers!! but i think that the feederfork is more solid on the NH.
in appearance, they both look the same. nice and square. looking closer as you said, it has thinner slices. I would have to agree with you Wes the JD baler is tighter. I am not an expert on this but I did stay at my house last night!
I don't have a big baler, but I know this. Hesston makes an outstanding small square inline baler. I have a 4570 that makes perfect bales all day long. You might go ahead and check out the big Hesston baler. That being said, John Deere makes quality equipment. My grandad and my father in law ran JD balers for years with no complaints, just check the Hesston out before making your decision.
I know nothing about baling hay but I studied the NH bale pretty close before you walked over to the other field. You said that it's typical for a bale to look furrier the second day. But what stood out to me the minute you scanned down the length of the JD bale was not only was the JD bale more square than the NH one, but if anything it was far LESS furry the second day than the freshly made NH one. Not only that, but while the NH bale seemed pretty decently packed, the JD bale was OBVIOUSLY far more dense even the thud of it when you kicked it made that plain to me at least.
Over here on the Western Slope we refer to "slices" of hay as flakes, leafs or biscuits of hay. Just say'n. The Grand Harvest Wine Festival is scheduled for this weekend in Morristown, New Jersey. I'm thinking that Wes ought to throw a leg over his motorcycle and take us all on a tour.
I use a Krone big square baler with great success. My neighbor uses a BB960. It seems like he's always working on it especially the pick up. The 3x4bale is definitely straight compared to my 4x4 though. The ends get a little round due to the height. 8% moisture 2050#s
Just a money saving thought, if Wes took the new stiffer header in the crate, put it on the NH and do the bolt and washer trick from the start, and always go to the field with a spare chain for in case, he might just have much less problems because it seems if that jockey sprocket is the culprit, acceptable maintenance activities like replacing the chain at intervals as he decide, he can save 1000's of dollars to spend on other equipment, tractors, trucks, hiring land or what ever. I do like the JD baler, but let's face it the NH is further more a great machine and to spend that money to get a little nicer looking bale.... is it really worth it. I would consider this plan, but yes, every farmer can do what he want, it's his full right.
after sales is more important than sale. I learned this from working for a company based out of Canada. Bottom line u sell it you should stock it. I kept the top 100 service parts on the shelf.
The real question is, how do the mushrooms like it? Wrapped in bacon or with out bacon? mmm bacon. Thanks for the fantastic videos Wes. I would pick the deere as it did a field without busting its self, or tossing a chain.
You might consider replacing the chain and sprockets with a double roller chain if you have the room behind the cover. You'll have to replace the top stud to accommate a wider bearing. 2x the chain = 1/2 the stress. Just a thought!
Ive run a NH bb960a crop cutter and you can adjust the chamber pressure from the monitor to give you looser or tighter bales, and also adjust the trip system to change your flake sizes. I would think you can make your NH baler bale like the JD but i dont know
Will be interesting to see if NH uprate the baler and pickup for the 2016 model. would imagine if they have had much trouble with other owners they will improve them.
Is the caseIH baler the same as the NH ?? Advert in the profi mag says they're designed for high volume USA hay producers ?? Great videos keep them coming
The John Deere bale looks like a nicer bale than what you're new holland is making but that's just my opinion, I'm a John Deere die hard!!! But like previously stated I doubt the mushroom barns care haha Have a good day Wes.
With the NH you know parts are accessible how accessible are the parts for the JD/Kuhn hybrid? I was looking at buying a Claas Xerion tractor absolutely loved it but parts if needed would be a question. Big difference going down to the local jd dealer and buying filters than waiting 3 days for one filter.
+sean john or like the ten he mentioned he had been using the NH. Those things are made sturdy but nothing last forever and sometimes new stuff has the advantage of better technology. Seems to me that he is just hyping himself up to spending the $$$ on the JD.
From the cameras point of view I couldn't see much difference in bale quality other than the strokes per bail. Like you said they are both good bales. Having ran NH and JD equipment built in late 60s and 70s I have s JD preference built in. It could be interesting to talk to another farmer in the same locale who has the Deere baler to ask about his (or her) experience with the baler. Is it as durable as it needs to be?
they look identical bales. people buying it would probable look for the quality of hay at the end of the day, it's the material they want. you just want a more reliable baler. the contractors that bale our hay used a john deere 7530 and MF heston and they baled all of our hay without any problems. nice videos
Hey Wes I was curious as to leasing versus owning a baler? It seems like you will be trading up every two years anyway was wondering if that would make more sense business wise?
Hi Wesley yes i agree you have a tighter squarer bale with jd . One thought i had do you get paid per bale or on weight? as once we were buying per bale out of field and selling marked up to bale in shed i wanted lighter bales to get more however the desision was made to have heavier tighter thus not costing the company so much to buy.... Doesnt really make sence to me!
the screen you had in the demo tractor was john deeres flagship gps screen. 5 grand or more. the new holland screen just looks like a screen made for just the baler
+onelonelyfarmer , you said that the new holland bale was flexing slightly as it dropped off the end of the baler but the john deere bale didn't. Is there any chance that that is because the new holland is a crop cutter model and the JD is a standard rotor so the hay strands are longer and hold together better than the NH bale?
The new holland has allready pressed a lot of bales the john deer did not. Is the bale from the jd stil as firm and tight after pressing the same bales as the nh?
NH dealer says, "just tighten it and adjust the settings" JD Dealer says, "Yeah, we get that a lot, we also get a lot less moldy bales"...JD flakes easier after setting half the winter too.
I gotta say when I first started in the hay business I ran nothing but newholland balers mind you I bale hay for feed but anyhow i was having problems with my baker and my buddy had a John Deere small square baler by the way and I fell in love with the john deere the next season I got rid of my new Holland and got a Deere and I have never looked back I am not a john Deere fan by any means but when it comes to balers they got their shit together I also have a 569 jd round baler I can tell you now I will never buy anything but john Deere balers again
+mason phillips Saying that you will never buy anything but Deere balers again is color blindness and kind of foolish. The Deere baler that Wes demoed looked like one hell of a baler. The JD 100 big square balers were piles of junk. Companies do change designs over the years and you cant just be stuck on one color. I have a 660 and 664 NH round balers. The 660 has about 70,000 bales on it. It has been rebuilt a couple times but just keeps going. Last night between the 2 balers we averaged a bale every 68 seconds per baler in corn stalks making 5x6 bales. Deere does make a good baler, they also had bad ones. Same with NH and Vermeer. The new NH roll belt baler (from what I hear) will put others to shame. I bleed green, but when it comes to balers you have to do like Wes is doing and consider all options, not just what was a good brand for a while.
+Jeff Petersen I ran Massey Ferguson, new Holland, and case ih balers the last few years I just haven't found anything that can compare to my john deeres I'm not saying no one else make a good baler but for my needs and the amount of hay I put up john Deere works the best for me. I run Massey ferguson and international tractors so I run different colors I just haven't had real good luck with the other brand balers
+mason phillips Yea, I understand that. NH had a few series the last 5 years that were not much good. My point was don't just get stuck on Deere forever when other brands may come with an as good or better baler in the future. I wouldn't want to own a BR series NH but really like what I've seen on the new roll belt series.
Yeah the biggest thing I don't like on the new Holland round balers is the nerve wrap load its a pain in the ass compared to the Deere and the one I used before I bought the Deere didn't make as good of a bale but a lot could have changed in the last 3 4 years to
+mason phillips Yea, it is a little more work to load the wrap but I think the NH wrap system is simpler. That and I like that it's in front so you can see what is going on.
I say the John Deere as the thinner slices makes much tighter bales over the New Holland. On top of that the John Deere is a btter built baler with more strokes better pick ups in the long run and easier to access some of the internals for the baler than the New Holland.
slice? I always called them waffers lol but I think they are both nice bales but ultimately is it gona be worth the upgrade and when's the difference gona pay for it self?
It looks like they both make nice looking bales. If I were buying them and could pick I would take the Deere bale...I noticed the deere bale also has nice square ends and the NH bales looked a little more rounded. I bet the Deere bale stacks better.
JD baler with computer you will never own it! only own the right to use it .I always used to like owning what I thought I'd finished paying for ......all the best from UK
In my experience I always thought john Deere made a better baler , whether small square or round balers , they make nicer bales and run smoother . they are worth the extra cost. I agree with your dad , buy it
Am not a dear fan but I must admit its a tighter looking bale I am impressed by the dear but the new Holland is still good excluding that pic up and sprockets since u sorted that broken shaft the bales have been looking more uniformed and tighter looking so am still on the fence what's a better machine for u sir . thanks again for the good videos and the new learning process on farm machines
Another item, do you ever check your hay dogs to see if the springs are broken? Dealing with grass the way you do I would think that those springs need attention after every 5000 bales
Deere bale looked tighter and ends were flatter and squarer... the NH bale the ends are rounder and softer looking. The tighter and squarer the bale, the better it should hold up in storage and transport. I'd say Deere for the win. The only negative I see is, the more strokes per bale, the more wear on the baler per bale... BUT if the thing is built heavier or stronger or better designed, that can more than compensate for the additional strokes/wear. Also, thinner flakes means less hay is being compressed for each stroke, and it's getting compressed MORE and more evenly because there's less hay for the same amount of compression force per stroke, so I'd expect the thinner flakes/more strokes baler (Deere) to put out a tighter, squarer bale that will hold up better than the fewer flake/less stroke bales (NH). Later! OL J R :)
Wes I have always liked the John Deere bales over New Holland even in the small squares New Holland always seamed to bow the bale at any tension. I will say that I have run both the New Holland I felt that they will eat a lot more hay but not with the quality bale from a John Deere
Not a farmer here, so my opinion isn't worth anything. But I am an engineer. It seems to me that with a shorter slice, with the same compression, you should get a tighter bail. You have less material compressing at the same pressure. The material acts as a cushion. So, a piece of material at the trailing edge of a slice should be compressed less on a larger slice than a narrower slice. As for strokes, does the metric for how many per minute matter really? If they are compressing the material approximately the same amount for the same sized bale (the weights are comparable), then the measurable metric would be how many bales per hour does each machine produce in comparable field conditions? I would assume that "more bales = more better". If there is a measurable difference in bale weights, then you'd have to do the comparison of tons of material per hour baled.
From my experience making tens of thousands of sale squares and my fresh outa college engineering background, my mind tells me that more strikes should mean more capacity because you are moving material away from the header faster. Now I've never run a big square baler, but in heavy material with a small square baler, that stroke of the plunger makes a wider slice, therefore a more loosely packed bale. Now I'm not familiar with the precharge chamber on a big baler either, I assume that is what is what controls the size of the slice. If that's the case, strokes per minutes shouldn't make much difference. Otherwise, I would think more strokes would be better. Keep up the preventive maintainence on the machine and it will be fine. Those JD engineered aren't dumb, they know how to build things, just some ain't farmers (farmers by far make the best engineers, that's how I got my job in engineering).
+ih1206 Your correct. it is the same as a small square baler. The more slices/ bale the tighter you can pack a bale. NH has a 48 spm baler and recommends 2.5-3 inch slices in a packed bale (I own one) JD is 45 spm and he said they want to run 1.5" slices.......if you ran them both at the same slice width I would *assume* the bales would be very similar in every which way. If you do the math the NH would technically have more capacity if the bales were made with the same size slice. It is basically an indifferent amount doing only 3 or 4 more bales per hour which you wouldn't even really notice. I will say the rotor setup JD came up with appears to be a good deal. But then again he seemed to think the NH design was a good deal till he got a couple 5-6000 bales through it.
+DeviousWashere2 Can't ya tell? Every time I see someone using a left handed-swedish nut f&^ker, I just wanna scream. That's not a skookum way to do things....
Im curious whos design did deere borrow for that baler or did they actually design this one themselves from scratch? I noticed the new deere looks a lot like a vermeer.
Maybe a good option would be to Wes proof the new Holland header and run it for a few more years, and spend the money you would spend on the baler on upgrading the 7410
I'm for the JD. Denser bales are more stable for handling, less material sticks out to lose and less twine used. With the acreage you run, ounces to pounds to tons to money lost.
I could defiantly see the difference in the tightness of the bales. The JD packs a much more solid bale. For what your doing it does not really matter much beyond your preferance, mushroom barn would probably rather have a looser bale so they can shred it or spread it easier. But what they dont know wont hurt them and a tighter bale would benefit you a lot with loading and overall handling of the bale. I think the JD has a much better header on it, much simpler design. Cant see how you could mess it up. I think we know JD's header is better so what really is left is how well does the knotter system function, from the look of those bales it seems to be outperforming NH. But that may just be due to the way the JD dealer had that baler and tractor set up.
People should realize the issues that you show are the day to day issues a farmer has. Stay the hell away from krone, there own videos say there parts come from Germany and nothing stocked at a DC center in the USA. Nothing l like waiting for a week for simple part. I don't know how many dealers will nda a part and eat the freight cost. I hate to say it but going green might be the best choice to date. Keep the vids coming, love the real shot from the hip talk.
+William Westphal ^ Krone is not the equipment an independent wants to own for this reason. It's not bad equipment it's just parts are all imported on order.
Krone NA has a very limited parts supply of only the most common parts on hand. Anything else is shipped in. My neighbor this year had to wait two weeks for a nearly 200 dollars cylinder seal kit for a Krone EasyCut disc mower because it was N/A in the dealer inventory and they where uncommon metric sized so nothing at a tractor supply would fit. It's great equipment but if it is a uncommon failure you are going to be down for a while waiting on parts. Big harvester fleets? No big deal just one piece of equipment down. Independent with just one piece of equipment then there goes your whole month.
Not a big difference in bale shape. But which bale do you prefer: the one from a baler which has a lot of break downs or a bale from a baler which always is running without problems? More flakes is more strokes from the plunger and/or stuffer which causes more wear and tear. And on top of that: I don't trust the stuffer system from Kuhn.(aka Greenland, aka PZ) I would strongly recommend the Hesston (MF) baler! The XD is built like a tank. NOBODY knows hay like Hesston! This Kuhn baler is build for the ordinary livestock farmer, baling grasshay (In Europe, Holland) or alfalfa in N.America. The Hesston XD is special designed for biomass,crop residue etc. At least look into it Wes!
+Jan Kotze After what he's went threw with that pick up on the NH, regular maintenance and it won't be an issue. The more strokes a minute with a little less hay per stroke, results in a tighter bale and smoother, and quieter operation (no banging).
+Can't B you It's true, just wondering as a no big baler experienced guy if the problem would only shift from header to the baler itself, but I must admit, i think i am wrong
+Jan Kotze Odds are, no. There should be "wear" pads on the plunger which should be the only wear Wes will have. That and the knotters but, that's with every square baler.
+Jan Kotze Odds are, no. There should be "wear" pads on the plunger which should be the only wear Wes will have. That and the knotters but, that's with every square baler.
Don't much about bailing but seems to me that in the long run the John Deere would make you more money since the bail it tighter the question is enough to justify a new bailer
If I were you, i would fix the nh baler, and make it more reliable wintertime, and use is it as long it can be. The difference between the two balers (quality, bale quality)couldn't be so much to invest in a terribly expensive new one.
The bales look roughly the same to me. The issue isn't the bale shape or density, the issue is reliability. You know the issues with the NH, the unknown is how reliable the JD would be. I'm sure you check the forage chat rooms for reviews. I've run NH and JD round balers and the JD is vastly superior there.
+Fredrick Mechanical Over priced & Complex? You just proved you don't know much if anything about big balers you notice that this baler listed below even tho it's a 2014 it's still BRAND NEW!! Krone Big Pack: The product line that secures success. With a KRONE large square baler you purchase experience and competence in baler design. From experience KRONE knows the widely differing field requirements and offers a complete baler range with standard bale chamber dimensions. Internationally recognized innovations, such as the Variable Fill System (VFS), the unique MultiBale model and the camless EasyFlow pick-up are some reasons for the success of the KRONE BiG Pack. It is a fact: KRONE makes what customers want. HDP (High Density Press) is the all-new, innovative solution from Krone for high-density bales. The Krone BiG Pack 1290 HDP with the chamber dimensions of 3 ft. 11 in. x 2 ft. 11 in. (120 x 90 cm) and an extended bale chamber opens up new bale packaging possibilities with its baling density. In comparison to conventional large square balers, the large bales of the HDP achieve an increased bale weight up to 25%. Equipment Specifications Year2014ManufacturerKRONEModelBP1290LocationSunnyside, WashingtonSerial Number12886288ConditionNewwww.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9719341
I honestly hate square bales. We normally bale round bales but one year had to do square bales and I hated moving them compared to moving round bales from the field cause there a lot harder to work with the round ones imo
Well Wes you maybe right but you have to put into consideration that is baker is new and your nh has done how many bales again now if that id had just as many bales on it that would be impressive to have that tight of a bale but everyone know things do wear out over time
JD bale seems to have more density to it , which relocates to more may per square foot,,, equals more profit per bale cause you get more weight and less bales ,, so maybe 35 bales to get that same 25 ton,,, well thats my thoughts anyway ,, i could be completely wrong..
jd looks nice, nh looks ok, nice video. jd get a price for new machine? this neck of the woods jd leaves the machine if a farmer is serious about it like you were. i was surprised they took it back. have you looked at the case ih. neighbor has one, made nice bales. there is someone always around when you want to pee.
JD bale looks to be square after 24hrs, NH bale straight out the machine looks to be pulling on the outside edges......maybe showing the JD to pack more evenly into the chamber?
JD has been making really good small, square balers for years. In the Western US, you see JD and Hesston small balers - with the majority being JD. In large round balers, you see JD and Vermeer. It's no surprise to me that the JD Big Baler works - all their other balers work well and last for years. In this comparison, the JD bale is far better than the NH bale. It's tighter, tied better, and doesn't bulge at one end.
I think I would have to agree with You now keep in mind I'm just going on looks here and sound but I'm not saying John Deere not because I'm a fan of green just that I think you can see a clear difference between the two When you banged on it sound tells a story i'm saying the John Deere
lol never fails when you got to pee someone pops up. And just my two cents the Jd bail looks a bit better but untill you get them side by side and weigh them you really cant say one way or the other.
I don't think you'll like that narrow header in the long run...like you said the nh is baling as dense of a bale you need weight wise for your load weight...I'd shy away from the jd simply because it's basically a first generation baler, there's bound to be issues pop up they have to improve on...
We all know that mother Deere makes no mistakes and is a God for farmers/non farmers alike.
I always look forward to your videos, I can watch the manufacturers propaganda from any brand and hear their opinion. But your videos are an honest real world depiction of the entire story. Thanks for that! However... I think you may have drank too much of the Deere Kool-Aid this time. The New Holland 340 baler will do everything that the JD baler will do. Flakes too big on the NH? That is easy to adjust with the lever on the left hand side of the baler. this will also give you control of the flakes per bale. As far as baling speed... the new Holland is in fact 3 plunger strokes per minute faster than the Deere, which means 3 more flakes in the chamber per minute as well as a faster ground speed (if the field is smooth enough!). I was honestly impressed with the Deere baler that was on demo around here in Wyoming, but there is no way that I would go away from either the NH or a Massey Ferguson for a LSB in North America!
the jd bale does look nicer but to me a bale is a bale... i don't think the mushroom barn cares what it looks like... great video thanks wes....
+Kevin Willis it really only makes a difference for loading and stacking
+JCB411abuser And the weight...
+David Harris sorry i did not notice thanks..
+David Harris "Bail"
+David Harris that is spelled correctly dipshit
Hey! A great video. Here in West Virginia they only make round or small bales where I live.
Same here in ireland
I have used the massy 2170 for 5 years with a total count of 5357 started having major problems with stuffer clutch, holding fingers, and knotter. AGCOs response to the problem was throw the book out. We decided to bye the krone 1270 high speed. It has amazed me with the speed n density of the bail. They averaged 300 pounds heavier 3x4x8
+Jus b ok i will be looking at one of those krone balers soon
+onelonleyfarmer Krone baler is a monster!
+onelonleyfarmer you should go John deer
Super anxious see see if the JD baler shits the bed. I have some serious doubts.
+Fredrick Mechanical Do some real thorough research there's no way on Gods earth they changed 82% of the Kuhn LSB 1290 more like 5 or so items. Under the Kuhn agreement, John Deere sells rebadged Kuhn balers in Europe, CIS, northern Africa and the Middle East, and it bought the patent to the 2011 Kuhn design to develop its own version for the US and Asian markets, including Australia ! "John Deere redesigns Kuhn model to launch its new large square baler"www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/machine/john-deere-redesigns-kuhn-model-to-launch-its-new-large-square-baler/story-fnkerd2w-1227189660925
@@heyhey1956 hey youre that weirdo arent you?
Good workaround on the sprocket. If you keep the new Holland for awhile,there are a number of things you can do to improve the chain situation....not perfection but might make it more of a predicted maintenance item. First thing: Instead of a tap job,thru drill completely thru and use a grade 8 thru bolt with a shoulder....more of a stud than a bolt. On the back side use a LARGE washer custom shaped to spread the footprint a little wider AND to correct any bend in the backing plate by welding the washer it to the back plate .IF you use weld pre-heat techniques you can actually have the weld correct the existing shaft angle when it cools off. Another thing to consider and evaluate is to consider adding a second aftermarket sprocket tensioner closer to where its needed (while lessoning the tension at the existing adjustment point). Your chain being so long has a LOT of stretch (you know that already) The simple act of running it for 30 minutes causes a thermal stretch that by itself, without wear ,would make it likely to fall off.Thermal stretch was common on the old motorcycles and can be easily seen on chainsaws. If you really stop and think about it....you can have a chain be 50 feet long and it work correctly IF you have enough tensioners at the right places (the side of the sprocket that is NOT under tension during operation)
how many knives were in those balers? Do you have the opp to weigh them? i guess the JD baler is the same as KUHN. they are good balers!! but i think that the feederfork is more solid on the NH.
in appearance, they both look the same. nice and square. looking closer as you said, it has thinner slices. I would have to agree with you Wes the JD baler is tighter. I am not an expert on this but I did stay at my house last night!
I don't have a big baler, but I know this. Hesston makes an outstanding small square inline baler. I have a 4570 that makes perfect bales all day long. You might go ahead and check out the big Hesston baler. That being said, John Deere makes quality equipment. My grandad and my father in law ran JD balers for years with no complaints, just check the Hesston out before making your decision.
I know nothing about baling hay but I studied the NH bale pretty close before you walked over to the other field. You said that it's typical for a bale to look furrier the second day. But what stood out to me the minute you scanned down the length of the JD bale was not only was the JD bale more square than the NH one, but if anything it was far LESS furry the second day than the freshly made NH one. Not only that, but while the NH bale seemed pretty decently packed, the JD bale was OBVIOUSLY far more dense even the thud of it when you kicked it made that plain to me at least.
Over here on the Western Slope we refer to "slices" of hay as flakes, leafs or biscuits of hay. Just say'n. The Grand Harvest Wine Festival is scheduled for this weekend in Morristown, New Jersey. I'm thinking that Wes ought to throw a leg over his motorcycle and take us all on a tour.
Hey good job on the video
Wouldn't the more strokes be less stress on the equipment and make it tighter?
I use a Krone big square baler with great success. My neighbor uses a BB960. It seems like he's always working on it especially the pick up. The 3x4bale is definitely straight compared to my 4x4 though. The ends get a little round due to the height. 8% moisture 2050#s
Just a money saving thought, if Wes took the new stiffer header in the crate, put it on the NH and do the bolt and washer trick from the start, and always go to the field with a spare chain for in case, he might just have much less problems because it seems if that jockey sprocket is the culprit, acceptable maintenance activities like replacing the chain at intervals as he decide, he can save 1000's of dollars to spend on other equipment, tractors, trucks, hiring land or what ever. I do like the JD baler, but let's face it the NH is further more a great machine and to spend that money to get a little nicer looking bale.... is it really worth it. I would consider this plan, but yes, every farmer can do what he want, it's his full right.
after sales is more important than sale. I learned this from working for a company based out of Canada. Bottom line u sell it you should stock it. I kept the top 100 service parts on the shelf.
I don't know nothin about balin hay. But I hate it when somebody walks up while I'm peeing.
The real question is, how do the mushrooms like it? Wrapped in bacon or with out bacon? mmm bacon. Thanks for the fantastic videos Wes. I would pick the deere as it did a field without busting its self, or tossing a chain.
Hesston up next? Or the much-vaunted Krone?
You might consider replacing the chain and sprockets with a double roller chain if you have the room behind the cover. You'll have to replace the top stud to accommate a wider bearing. 2x the chain = 1/2 the stress. Just a thought!
Ive run a NH bb960a crop cutter and you can adjust the chamber pressure from the monitor to give you looser or tighter bales, and also adjust the trip system to change your flake sizes. I would think you can make your NH baler bale like the JD but i dont know
Will be interesting to see if NH uprate the baler and pickup for the 2016 model. would imagine if they have had much trouble with other owners they will improve them.
Is the caseIH baler the same as the NH ??
Advert in the profi mag says they're designed for high volume USA hay producers ??
Great videos keep them coming
I would say the John Deere bale is definitely tighter, it seemed really solid.
The John Deere bale looks like a nicer bale than what you're new holland is making but that's just my opinion, I'm a John Deere die hard!!! But like previously stated I doubt the mushroom barns care haha Have a good day Wes.
With the NH you know parts are accessible how accessible are the parts for the JD/Kuhn hybrid? I was looking at buying a Claas Xerion tractor absolutely loved it but parts if needed would be a question. Big difference going down to the local jd dealer and buying filters than waiting 3 days for one filter.
I am definitely no farmer, but have been running equipment my whole life, put a year on that JD bailer and THEN compare bails
+sean john or like the ten he mentioned he had been using the NH. Those things are made sturdy but nothing last forever and sometimes new stuff has the advantage of better technology. Seems to me that he is just hyping himself up to spending the $$$ on the JD.
From the cameras point of view I couldn't see much difference in bale quality other than the strokes per bail. Like you said they are both good bales. Having ran NH and JD equipment built in late 60s and 70s I have s JD preference built in. It could be interesting to talk to another farmer in the same locale who has the Deere baler to ask about his (or her) experience with the baler. Is it as durable as it needs to be?
they look identical bales. people buying it would probable look for the quality of hay at the end of the day, it's the material they want. you just want a more reliable baler. the contractors that bale our hay used a john deere 7530 and MF heston and they baled all of our hay without any problems. nice videos
Hey Wes I was curious as to leasing versus owning a baler? It seems like you will be trading up every two years anyway was wondering if that would make more sense business wise?
Hi Wesley yes i agree you have a tighter squarer bale with jd .
One thought i had do you get paid per bale or on weight? as once we were buying per bale out of field and selling marked up to bale in shed i wanted lighter bales to get more however the desision was made to have heavier tighter thus not costing the company so much to buy.... Doesnt really make sence to me!
the screen you had in the demo tractor was john deeres flagship gps screen. 5 grand or more. the new holland screen just looks like a screen made for just the baler
I don't blame you for pissed at the NW, you have had to repair the pick up header a lot this year.
+onelonelyfarmer , you said that the new holland bale was flexing slightly as it dropped off the end of the baler but the john deere bale didn't. Is there any chance that that is because the new holland is a crop cutter model and the JD is a standard rotor so the hay strands are longer and hold together better than the NH bale?
+Aweigh@Sea The reason the JD bale wasn't flexing is the JD bale is packed a whole lot tighter than the NH bale nothing to do with the crop cutter!
The new holland has allready pressed a lot of bales the john deer did not. Is the bale from the jd stil as firm and tight after pressing the same bales as the nh?
NH dealer says, "just tighten it and adjust the settings" JD Dealer says, "Yeah, we get that a lot, we also get a lot less moldy bales"...JD flakes easier after setting half the winter too.
I gotta say when I first started in the hay business I ran nothing but newholland balers mind you I bale hay for feed but anyhow i was having problems with my baker and my buddy had a John Deere small square baler by the way and I fell in love with the john deere the next season I got rid of my new Holland and got a Deere and I have never looked back I am not a john Deere fan by any means but when it comes to balers they got their shit together I also have a 569 jd round baler I can tell you now I will never buy anything but john Deere balers again
+mason phillips Saying that you will never buy anything but Deere balers again is color blindness and kind of foolish. The Deere baler that Wes demoed looked like one hell of a baler. The JD 100 big square balers were piles of junk. Companies do change designs over the years and you cant just be stuck on one color. I have a 660 and 664 NH round balers. The 660 has about 70,000 bales on it. It has been rebuilt a couple times but just keeps going. Last night between the 2 balers we averaged a bale every 68 seconds per baler in corn stalks making 5x6 bales. Deere does make a good baler, they also had bad ones. Same with NH and Vermeer. The new NH roll belt baler (from what I hear) will put others to shame. I bleed green, but when it comes to balers you have to do like Wes is doing and consider all options, not just what was a good brand for a while.
+Jeff Petersen I ran Massey Ferguson, new Holland, and case ih balers the last few years I just haven't found anything that can compare to my john deeres I'm not saying no one else make a good baler but for my needs and the amount of hay I put up john Deere works the best for me. I run Massey ferguson and international tractors so I run different colors I just haven't had real good luck with the other brand balers
+mason phillips Yea, I understand that. NH had a few series the last 5 years that were not much good. My point was don't just get stuck on Deere forever when other brands may come with an as good or better baler in the future. I wouldn't want to own a BR series NH but really like what I've seen on the new roll belt series.
Yeah the biggest thing I don't like on the new Holland round balers is the nerve wrap load its a pain in the ass compared to the Deere and the one I used before I bought the Deere didn't make as good of a bale but a lot could have changed in the last 3 4 years to
+mason phillips Yea, it is a little more work to load the wrap but I think the NH wrap system is simpler. That and I like that it's in front so you can see what is going on.
I say the John Deere as the thinner slices makes much tighter bales over the New Holland. On top of that the John Deere is a btter built baler with more strokes better pick ups in the long run and easier to access some of the internals for the baler than the New Holland.
slice? I always called them waffers lol but I think they are both nice bales but ultimately is it gona be worth the upgrade and when's the difference gona pay for it self?
It looks like they both make nice looking bales. If I were buying them and could pick I would take the Deere bale...I noticed the deere bale also has nice square ends and the NH bales looked a little more rounded. I bet the Deere bale stacks better.
Both bales look pretty damn good. I don't think I would buy one baler over the other based on the size of the bale.
JD baler with computer you will never own it! only own the right to use it .I always used to like owning what I thought I'd finished paying for ......all the best from UK
The bales looked pretty comparable to me. Although, I not there in person but the Deere bales did sound heavier when you hit on' em.
In my experience I always thought john Deere made a better baler , whether small square or round balers , they make nicer bales and run smoother . they are worth the extra cost. I agree with your dad , buy it
Am not a dear fan but I must admit its a tighter looking bale I am impressed by the dear but the new Holland is still good excluding that pic up and sprockets since u sorted that broken shaft the bales have been looking more uniformed and tighter looking so am still on the fence what's a better machine for u sir .
thanks again for the good videos and the new learning process on farm machines
Another item, do you ever check your hay dogs to see if the springs are broken? Dealing with grass the way you do I would think that those springs need attention after every 5000 bales
Deere bale looked tighter and ends were flatter and squarer... the NH bale the ends are rounder and softer looking.
The tighter and squarer the bale, the better it should hold up in storage and transport.
I'd say Deere for the win.
The only negative I see is, the more strokes per bale, the more wear on the baler per bale... BUT if the thing is built heavier or stronger or better designed, that can more than compensate for the additional strokes/wear. Also, thinner flakes means less hay is being compressed for each stroke, and it's getting compressed MORE and more evenly because there's less hay for the same amount of compression force per stroke, so I'd expect the thinner flakes/more strokes baler (Deere) to put out a tighter, squarer bale that will hold up better than the fewer flake/less stroke bales (NH).
Later! OL J R :)
Wes I have always liked the John Deere bales over New Holland even in the small squares New Holland always seamed to bow the bale at any tension. I will say that I have run both the New Holland I felt that they will eat a lot more hay but not with the quality bale from a John Deere
Not a farmer here, so my opinion isn't worth anything. But I am an engineer. It seems to me that with a shorter slice, with the same compression, you should get a tighter bail. You have less material compressing at the same pressure. The material acts as a cushion. So, a piece of material at the trailing edge of a slice should be compressed less on a larger slice than a narrower slice. As for strokes, does the metric for how many per minute matter really? If they are compressing the material approximately the same amount for the same sized bale (the weights are comparable), then the measurable metric would be how many bales per hour does each machine produce in comparable field conditions? I would assume that "more bales = more better". If there is a measurable difference in bale weights, then you'd have to do the comparison of tons of material per hour baled.
From my experience making tens of thousands of sale squares and my fresh outa college engineering background, my mind tells me that more strikes should mean more capacity because you are moving material away from the header faster. Now I've never run a big square baler, but in heavy material with a small square baler, that stroke of the plunger makes a wider slice, therefore a more loosely packed bale. Now I'm not familiar with the precharge chamber on a big baler either, I assume that is what is what controls the size of the slice. If that's the case, strokes per minutes shouldn't make much difference. Otherwise, I would think more strokes would be better. Keep up the preventive maintainence on the machine and it will be fine. Those JD engineered aren't dumb, they know how to build things, just some ain't farmers (farmers by far make the best engineers, that's how I got my job in engineering).
are you an AVE watcher?
+ih1206 Your correct. it is the same as a small square baler. The more slices/ bale the tighter you can pack a bale. NH has a 48 spm baler and recommends 2.5-3 inch slices in a packed bale (I own one) JD is 45 spm and he said they want to run 1.5" slices.......if you ran them both at the same slice width I would *assume* the bales would be very similar in every which way. If you do the math the NH would technically have more capacity if the bales were made with the same size slice. It is basically an indifferent amount doing only 3 or 4 more bales per hour which you wouldn't even really notice. I will say the rotor setup JD came up with appears to be a good deal. But then again he seemed to think the NH design was a good deal till he got a couple 5-6000 bales through it.
+DeviousWashere2 Can't ya tell? Every time I see someone using a left handed-swedish nut f&^ker, I just wanna scream. That's not a skookum way to do things....
+icondonnied not the skookum way at all. I find his viewers comments on other vijeos funny as frig
Im curious whos design did deere borrow for that baler or did they actually design this one themselves from scratch? I noticed the new deere looks a lot like a vermeer.
Both bales look very similar but I would say the JD bale appears to be the more square bale. Not a huge difference but still a difference.
you should try a claas baler 👌
Maybe a good option would be to Wes proof the new Holland header and run it for a few more years, and spend the money you would spend on the baler on upgrading the 7410
Seemed to me that the JD bale looked better and was tighter packed, I don't know where we got it but we used to call a section of a bale a Sheve.
I'm for the JD. Denser bales are more stable for handling, less material sticks out to lose and less twine used. With the acreage you run, ounces to pounds to tons to money lost.
I could defiantly see the difference in the tightness of the bales. The JD packs a much more solid bale. For what your doing it does not really matter much beyond your preferance, mushroom barn would probably rather have a looser bale so they can shred it or spread it easier. But what they dont know wont hurt them and a tighter bale would benefit you a lot with loading and overall handling of the bale. I think the JD has a much better header on it, much simpler design. Cant see how you could mess it up. I think we know JD's header is better so what really is left is how well does the knotter system function, from the look of those bales it seems to be outperforming NH. But that may just be due to the way the JD dealer had that baler and tractor set up.
Heavier bale with lighter twine!! How did deere do that whats the difference. It cant be the longer bale chamber. Good video.
Geez Wes that John Deere bale sounds like concrete!
New Holland is the best baler . Most economical to run . I have experience with them since 1978 . Yes , I'm that old 👍
People should realize the issues that you show are the day to day issues a farmer has. Stay the hell away from krone, there own videos say there parts come from Germany and nothing stocked at a DC center in the USA. Nothing l like waiting for a week for simple part. I don't know how many dealers will nda a part and eat the freight cost. I hate to say it but going green might be the best choice to date.
Keep the vids coming, love the real shot from the hip talk.
+William Westphal ^ Krone is not the equipment an independent wants to own for this reason. It's not bad equipment it's just parts are all imported on order.
+Cragified You said "it's just parts are all imported on order" read my reply to William Westphal below about the Krone part situation HUH!
Krone NA has a very limited parts supply of only the most common parts on hand. Anything else is shipped in. My neighbor this year had to wait two weeks for a nearly 200 dollars cylinder seal kit for a Krone EasyCut disc mower because it was N/A in the dealer inventory and they where uncommon metric sized so nothing at a tractor supply would fit.
It's great equipment but if it is a uncommon failure you are going to be down for a while waiting on parts. Big harvester fleets? No big deal just one piece of equipment down. Independent with just one piece of equipment then there goes your whole month.
I will get the John Deere but I am partial to John Deere's but it does look like it makes it better bale.
They are both fine balers. Buy the one that has the best dealer support.
Have you compared a massey baler. A 2170 or something like that
looked relly nice it sounds much harder than the nh bale when hitting it
Not a big difference in bale shape. But which bale do you prefer: the one from a baler which has a lot of break downs or a bale from a baler which always is running without problems? More flakes is more strokes from the plunger and/or stuffer which causes more wear and tear. And on top of that: I don't trust the stuffer system from Kuhn.(aka Greenland, aka PZ)
I would strongly recommend the Hesston (MF) baler! The XD is built like a tank. NOBODY knows hay like Hesston! This Kuhn baler is build for the ordinary livestock farmer, baling grasshay (In Europe, Holland) or alfalfa in N.America. The Hesston XD is special designed for biomass,crop residue etc. At least look into it Wes!
JD definitely looks tighter. NH bale looks comparable in size and shape though. But I just like the JD bale more. dunno why. Maybe it's those slices.
Nice bale from the Deere, but more strokes per bale, more wear and tear over time ???????
+Jan Kotze After what he's went threw with that pick up on the NH, regular maintenance and it won't be an issue. The more strokes a minute with a little less hay per stroke, results in a tighter bale and smoother, and quieter operation (no banging).
+Can't B you It's true, just wondering as a no big baler experienced guy if the problem would only shift from header to the baler itself, but I must admit, i think i am wrong
+Jan Kotze Odds are, no. There should be "wear" pads on the plunger which should be the only wear Wes will have. That and the knotters but, that's with every square baler.
+Jan Kotze Odds are, no. There should be "wear" pads on the plunger which should be the only wear Wes will have. That and the knotters but, that's with every square baler.
John deres super Nice
I think John Deere is your best choice, hopefully less problems down the road.
the ends are squarer on the john deerr
I love the jd bale it looks a lot nicer then that NH bale
Don't much about bailing but seems to me that in the long run the John Deere would make you more money since the bail it tighter the question is enough to justify a new bailer
Both bales look similar, but, I'll bet you'd pay way more for that John Deere bailer or any other equipment from them.
If I were you, i would fix the nh baler, and make it more reliable wintertime, and use is it as long it can be. The difference between the two balers (quality, bale quality)couldn't be so much to invest in a terribly expensive new one.
The bales look roughly the same to me. The issue isn't the bale shape or density, the issue is reliability. You know the issues with the NH, the unknown is how reliable the JD would be. I'm sure you check the forage chat rooms for reviews. I've run NH and JD round balers and the JD is vastly superior there.
I'm placing my bet and saying your going to get the JD baler. The JD bale looks better to me.
+Idaman71044 Pity Wes is not trying out the Krone baler their bales are brilliant!
+heyhey1956 If I heard correctly he wanted a demo but hey wouldn't give him one, their loss
+Fredrick Mechanical Over priced & Complex? You just proved you don't know much if anything about big balers you notice that this baler listed below even tho it's a 2014 it's still BRAND NEW!!
Krone Big Pack: The product line that secures success. With a KRONE large square baler you purchase experience and competence in baler design. From experience KRONE knows the widely differing field requirements and offers a complete baler range with standard bale chamber dimensions. Internationally recognized innovations, such as the Variable Fill System (VFS), the unique MultiBale model and the camless EasyFlow pick-up are some reasons for the success of the KRONE BiG Pack. It is a fact: KRONE makes what customers want. HDP (High Density Press) is the all-new, innovative solution from Krone for high-density bales. The Krone BiG Pack 1290 HDP with the chamber dimensions of 3 ft. 11 in. x 2 ft. 11 in. (120 x 90 cm) and an extended bale chamber opens up new bale packaging possibilities with its baling density. In comparison to conventional large square balers, the large bales of the HDP achieve an increased bale weight up to 25%.
Equipment Specifications
Year2014ManufacturerKRONEModelBP1290LocationSunnyside, WashingtonSerial Number12886288ConditionNewwww.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9719341
I honestly hate square bales. We normally bale round bales but one year had to do square bales and I hated moving them compared to moving round bales from the field cause there a lot harder to work with the round ones imo
Well Wes you maybe right but you have to put into consideration that is baker is new and your nh has done how many bales again now if that id had just as many bales on it that would be impressive to have that tight of a bale but everyone know things do wear out over time
Baler not baker
good morning wes
JD bale seems to have more density to it , which relocates to more may per square foot,,, equals more profit per bale cause you get more weight and less bales ,, so maybe 35 bales to get that same 25 ton,,, well thats my thoughts anyway ,, i could be completely wrong..
nice fix
Just looks better.
How much does one of those 1400lb bail go for?
those segments in the bail are called flakes and I like the JD bail better
That JD bale looked quite a bit tighter.
definitely the john deer Wes
jd looks nice, nh looks ok, nice video. jd get a price for new machine? this neck of the woods jd leaves the machine if a farmer is serious about it like you were. i was surprised they took it back. have you looked at the case ih. neighbor has one, made nice bales. there is someone always around when you want to pee.
+IH826 Farmall if i am correct, the CaseIH is the same bailer that NH makes.
Your right. Think Wes mentioned that before. I forgot
The JD bails that is.
JD bale looks to be square after 24hrs, NH bale straight out the machine looks to be pulling on the outside edges......maybe showing the JD to pack more evenly into the chamber?
The Deere strokes more ;)
JD has been making really good small, square balers for years. In the Western US, you see JD and Hesston small balers - with the majority being JD. In large round balers, you see JD and Vermeer. It's no surprise to me that the JD Big Baler works - all their other balers work well and last for years. In this comparison, the JD bale is far better than the NH bale. It's tighter, tied better, and doesn't bulge at one end.
Buckhorn Cortez
JD is definitely a squarer, tighter bale.
Jd is a better baler it's more squarer
I think I would have to agree with You now keep in mind I'm just going on looks here and sound but I'm not saying John Deere not because I'm a fan of green just that I think you can see a clear difference between the two When you banged on it sound tells a story i'm saying the John Deere
i think the JD bale looks tighter and cleaner than the NH. The JD bale looks better.
I have been with JD for 20+years I would not give the jd baler for anything else if it ant green it does not need to be in the field
lol never fails when you got to pee someone pops up. And just my two cents the Jd bail looks a bit better but untill you get them side by side and weigh them you really cant say one way or the other.
Your new publicity agent is making quite the impression.
I don't think you'll like that narrow header in the long run...like you said the nh is baling as dense of a bale you need weight wise for your load weight...I'd shy away from the jd simply because it's basically a first generation baler, there's bound to be issues pop up they have to improve on...