Lores of Magic Tier List | Total War Warhammer 3
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when you kept mentioning the video going on too long (12 whole minutes).. i hope that wasn't for our sake, because i would have appreciated more detail, examples and general nerding out.
Yeah that was annoying and cringe.
Thank you for mentioning this ! Like who asked for it to go faster ?
Yeah, why rush?
For youtube, 10 minutes is the sweet spot for maximized attention and profits.
Nah. When I see a 20+ minute video, I just keep scrolling. Haven’t got time for that shit.
Don't know what's your rush mate. Take your time, I'd have appreciated you going over each lore a little more methodically and in detail seeing as most of us haven't played the other lores.
Take your time.
Funny because in Multiplayer Battles, the Tomb Kings's unique lore is what makes their army so cracked. Army-wide healing from the passive drives it up so much tiers for MP Battles.
There's a bug that let's the passive replenish ammo meaning TK basically have unlimited ammo making them absolutely busted.
um...
Yeah sure that's why Arkhan is the most competitive lord.
I'd personally pit Lore of the Great Maw in B tier for one simple reason:
The passive heal for the lore only affects the caster, as opposed to healing the army like Curse of Undeath, Life Bloom, Children of Nurgle and The Restless Dead.
And whilst the heal and giant explosion are both powerful, they're also extremely expensive when compared to other spells of a similar calibre
I guess one special mention for the rune magic is that, while the cooldowns disallow spamming spells, they also aren't bound to a resource and thus can be cast slowly, but indefinitely. This of course also fit in the slow dwarven playstyle.
I think it's nutty to put High Magic in D! Hand of Glory gives insane returns on a strong missile unit in the right spot, crazy dps increase. Apostheosis is a spammable single target heal with conditional morale debuff which is amazing on high impact units such as heavy infantry or cav. Soul quench is pretty decent too IMO! High is versatile and pretty much always useful, easy A for me!
High magic is ok, does a bit of everything. First two spells feel indeed really good : good single target healing, good long range single target damage, but your not gonna carry your campaign on the back of this kind of spells. The big AoE damage spell is kinda lacking when comparing damage/cost ratio. And soul quench should be a AoE spell to not fall late game. Its strong since magic in and of itself is OP. But it cant compare to most other lores of magic.
Yeah, I wouldn't call it a great lore but I think it's at least a B. And ironically he likes Fiery Convocation, but I've always found it basically unusable. The animation takes forever so you can't hit enemies on the move, and it veers so much that if you wait till the lines meet you're as liable to melt your own troops.
@@Deris87 if the ennemy is pinned down its usable. But its definitely b max since you have to play accordingly, like making a long tin frontline to burn all your ennemies. But I dont like it. I like my checkerboard formation, My T, my inversed V etc. With high elves. Not long tin frontline. This aint norsca!
The best part about this is the sound effects for C and D tier. Idk why but they crack me up.
Vangheist's Revenge is the new Wind of Death, overcast it does 108 damage, all armor piercing. That's enough to one shot pretty much any infantry model. It also has great range and shoots perfectly straight, so at the start of the battle when the AI is nicely lined up and waiting for you to attack you can completely wipe out three elite infantry units. That alone puts lore of the deep in S tier for me. Also lore of life not being S tier is a travesty. Dweller's below melts infantry blobs in a single cast, the heals were already super strong in WH2, and the change to make heals percentage based is a big buff when trageting high HP untis.
Nurgle lore should be S, it's an hard carry and there is absoluty no nurgle army that could do without. Eshin is probably on par with nehekara in term of bein underwellming and way too thematic so I would put them on D tier.
Also Dark magic is as bad/good as high, cause Fiery convocation may be hard to aim but will do way more damage than chill wind who will hit maybe 40 model max with half the damage.
Eshin spells are very good if overcasted. Especialy now with @*#@$ towers in minor sieges.
Holy shit, I've been looking for a basic tier list or breakdown for 10mins, and it turns out you put one up yesterday. Serendipitous timing my man.
Personally I'd put rune magic below D tier, Eshin magic into C tier, and Nurgle in S tier.
I just picked up the game a few weeks ago and I’ve been watching a few tutorial videos online and I find myself usually looking for your content and I have to say but these videos have been very useful and your very underrated for your dedication to your videos! Keep it up!
Loving your content mate, really great detailed guides ♥️
There needs to be SOME consideration for context on casters and factions.
For instance, the Greenskins only generic caster Lord is the Goblin Great Shaman, who can ride SpiderShrines. which makes them really solid in campaign, when you need magic to win but can't get more hero-shamans. Within the context of helping lower-tier goblins punch WAY up into better troops with Sneaky Stabbing and Itchy Nuisance. I'm not saying C rank isn't warranted for the lore at face value on the Encyclopedia, but it does deserve a better accounting of itself.
Tzeentch, is sitting here like look at what they have to do to mimic a fraction of our power
I would say nurlge is an easy S. I just played their IE campaign for the third time because of the patch and a save breaking bug. The passive is good and rancid overcasted twice and near kill tanky characters. I feel that a lot player have not taken the time with the faction as it is so different. Plus the spray is cheap and 100% AP.
Spray alone makes it S tier IMHO.
My brother and i have baned that spell for our matches since our caster would easily deal 35k dmg per match with just spaming that bullshit.
@@Smitywerban Agreed and that is awesome that you all had to setup a house rule.😁
Nurgle is SS+ tier. It can heal cap your whole army with just 2 blob casts (Life is capped to 4 targets/cast) and also has the equivalence of Foot of Gork; only cheaper but slower
@@Kraykz 100% My only issues with the fleshy abundance and blight boil is that I feel like I need to overcast them. Fleshy abundance for the aoe and blight boil because it is only 15 winds. Rancid is costly at the overcast but the amount of damage increase is 100% worth it. The two other amazing things is you can get the lore as bound spells on great unclean ones and there is a rare item with two charge bound spell of blight boil.
Lore of Stealth being S-Teir? Is your discord trolling the fuck out of you or am i missing something here?
It's f bud. Worst in the game, vortex that does no damage
it definently s tier puts in A
I really like High Magic, Soul Quench is actually pretty good for a magic missile spell after it got buffed and can do a lot of dmg to both single targets and infantry. Apotheosis is a good single target heal thats cheap and on a low cd. But the rest do kinda fall apart except for fiery invocation, tho not because of the cost but the delay on it is pretty high
Plus, apotheosis has the advantage of allowing the unit healed by it to cause fear. And whilst that won't be super strong on the lizardmen's monsters or the HElves dragons, or even the tree huggers big forest spirits, the fear is exceptionally good for units like waywatchers, sisters of averlorn and temple guard
I'd argue that hand of glory upgraded is worth the hassle it makes the soa reload so fast amazing ways to sniper sem charging at you (I do use a mod to turn it aoe tbf but still good without it)
I would buff that Lore of magic up a Tier with Yeversse(?) Eltharion, the reload reduction with Mistwalkers is insane
@@sev1120 yeah, causing fear for infantry units is every USEFUL, you can break elite infantry on 25 entities instead of 20.
I dont know why Fiery Convo is said to have a drawback of long cast time. HE have a lot of spells to keep enemy units still for it to absolutely obliterate anything in it's path. And Hand of Glory is amazing for SOA, with SOH being buffed with fear from Apotheosis is also nothing to scoff at.
I like how you called Da Big Wa an S tier lore and then proceeded to put it in A
Lore of life and nurgle can easilly compete with lore of vampires in top spots of S tier, apart form it Soul stealer on big hp dragon alone puts it in at least B tier, possibly low A
edit: also skaven lores are decent, summons are good, but rout fast (dreaded 13th is awesome tho and its only reason that it can climb to A)
while the other skaven lore is strong B, Good dmg spells and AoE control but with castitime long enougth that you can react. overall its worse than summons
lore of vampirates is either hight a or low S, it also has invokation and has better summons.
But really Nurgle, Life and Vampire are TOP 3, then tzeench mostly due to mobile casters that can cast blue fire over and over on your higth priority target and both cheap pink fire to clear chaff and elitekiller portal to chaos.
Agreed
I do wish you'd slow down even a little and explain a bit more. I broadly agree with your choices, though I find the Skaven stealth spells almost useless considering the other two are so much better.
Having recently tried Azhag, I have to argue against C tier Death lore, seeing as you can choose to absolutely shotgun blast the enemy's underwear with -16 leadership + fear/terror at a relatively low price too. Sure, it might not help you turn around a losing fight, but it'll "punch down" pretty good wherever your units already have an advantage. Very cost efficient if you can keep track of enemy morale and cast exactly before terror range. Particularly valuable in rosters that don't inherently have any sources of fear or terror, and account for the fact that it simultanously makes the unit immune to said effects. Not to mention that life leech spam is super reliable at chunking down lords and other single entities. I'd say no higher than B tier due to the lack of direct nuking potential although your units can do that for you when the enemy isn't fighting back. Personally didn't bother with it's more expensive spells, unless I'm absolutely desperate for damage I'd never cast purple sun because new moving vortex spells suck hairy wrinkly nut sacks. Wth even is fate of Bjurna.
tl;dr: What's up guys it's quandale dingle here, I've been arrested for multiple crimes, including; assassinating the local witch hunter, raiding reikland, declaring war on estalia and downloading big tiddy mods. I will be escaping Altdorf on 21st night of september, after that I will be taking over the Empi-
Like he said, its quite good early, but falls off later. It can also be quite good if you play around it. Great lore magic dont need you to build your army around it. They just perform in more situations.
Yeah its brutal esp if they are near the maps edge
I'm new to this franchise and would've really appreciated the rapid fire portions being a little less rapid. At least naming the good the spells and why briefly. Instead of just saying yeah this lore has 3 decent ones and 3 mediocre ones and moving on. This still helped me alot ty for the video.
Colonel did a video on several lores individually
Where is the Lore of Khorne??
Oh, right. My bad.
Now that I've seen a comparison on how Lore of Nehekara needs an update compared to the other lores, I'm wondering what ways they could change it to make it viable? I always thought one of the benefits of the lore was that it was cheap to cast, and its passive made sure that all your forces stayed upright, meaning that you can spam cast to do a number of effects plus healing.
They need 1 or 2 actually damaging spells. Their Vortex spell desperately needs armor piercing, unless you are fighting demons...
I personally would love an explosion or Winds spell
But with the current Ammunition refill bug, their passive is broken OP
@@darthnihilus6211
What's this bug you mentioned?
@@NicolasFister originally the passive of that lore heals and resurrects entities. However, some weird math or code makes the game thinks that it should replenish your ammunition
@@NicolasFister Any magic(Vampire Coast too), that can resurrect an entity in a unit, resurrects it with full Ammunition. That may not do much for a Unit of 120 Archers, but for artillery? Or single entities?
Yes resurrection magic tries to resurrect an additional entity in a Single entity Unit, but since it can't, it still adds the ammunition. Said Entity needs to be at full health for this to work.
This should work for any Race, that can ally with the Lizardmen, since the : "Bastiladon (Revivification Crystal)" can do the same, and you can recruit them with the ally system.
i love little waagh, goblin lord on a catchweb spidershrine is gonna heavily debuff their entire army's melee attack for the entire battle
I’m down for another in depth vid like this
Dude lore of nurgle is easy S tier.
The spray spell is 100% armor piercing with a potent debuff.
nurgle not s? stream of corruption is probably the best damage spell at the minute, and it's low cost with nurgl's survivability means you get a lot of passives of with it. Also it's an early unlock.
Probably because bias, no reason why Nurgle shouldnt be S
Listen, I know there are statistics on best video length, but that's the average CZcamsr, not gamers looking for info. Please, as folks have stated in several videos, stop worrying about rushing to meet a pre-set video length, it makes me feel like we're all in a rush when what most of us really want is good helpful info. A video like this can and should hit 20-30 minutes.
Some seem weak but you can cast them constantly. Also the massive cloaking spell the goblins get can be pretty powerful. Just cloak your entire army vs a shooting army and advance around them
In the case of the lore of death you may want to take the life leeching passive into account it can make you gain a lot more value for your spells meaning while some of there spells may be more expensive but you are getting reserves back
Plus it makes aspect of the dread knight practically free and can be a lifesaver in longer battles
Lore of tempest is definitely better than lore or ice. You need to consider the magic cost as well: ice magic is way too expensive. B tier at best.
Ice would be broken if the magic was like in wh2. So that you can cast more than 3 spells that melt units. But as of now I agree it's not A tier. Only 2 good spells
I feel like this needs a bit more gradation. Either an A+ tier or an F tier to actually tell these apart more.
Lol dwellers of the deep is insanely strong and that alone would make life magic S tier. Disagree with that.
It’s insanely powerful against blobs a good cast will win almost every battle
Hi Colonel, are you planning on doing an updated all factions tier list?
Lore of Yang has a Nuke that is nearly the same as Ikit’s nuke mechanic… except you can cast a bunch of them… I’ve honestly never had to over cast it. It’s S tier. I agree with almost every ranking you had, but you got Lore of Yang wrong. I just hate the faction that gets it. Cathay is just so boring.
idk why but i Always neglect having magic users in my Armies, sometimes I think I just get a bit too overwhelmed but having another thing to pay attention to lol! It's like either an Army gets Magic or Cavalry as my brain can only do so much lolz X3
Which has wind blast? I hate when I get that lore
Offset the impact of shared cooldowns by using more than one Runesmith. This has the least opportunity cost if you couple Runelord with Runesmith. If you want basically no shared cooldown without mods you can use double Runesmith and a Runelord. Rune magic is one of the best lores in the game for melee and it's essential for any melee focused Dwarf composition, but most players don't have faith in Dwarf melee power and rely on missile play. In the unlikely event you can steal a Runesmith in campaign it's OP for some races.
Couple overcast with regular cast to double the effects of a spell. Eg +90% speed and +48 melee attack (Master Rune of Speed+Rune of Speed) on a couple of units of Hammerers is going to give the enemy huge problems and will do a lot to mitigate the problems of being slow and a good target for missiles for that unit. I believe if players widely knew and remembered the ability to stack overcast and regular cast buffs and debuffs, melee focused armies would be much more popular.
For Dwarfs, Thorek Ironbrow and Grombrindal are brilliant for melee builds in campaign because of their special legendary lord skills. Thorek gives the whole army +10 armour +3 AP weapon damage, +7 charge and Frenzy which all benefit melee contact, and Grombrindal gives the whole army +35% speed which when used wisely can make his army extremely fast, thereby largely circumventing the problem of being pelted with missiles and artillery. He also has the Ancestor Gods events which can make his army pretty crazy in melee. If you can confederate these into Kadrin they are even better because Kadrin gives you 10% more speed factionwide for infantry, although you miss out on the Ancester Gods events for Grombrindal.
High Magic is S tier in multiplayer when u expect what you're playing against. Tempest is amazing, huge damage when used properly with flying units&also stops your enemy giving you an easy lord snipe.
When the missing races come, more lores of magic will too, so then it'll be time for another tier list heheheh
I dont really get why u sped everything up in the end i was enjoying how you were going a little in depth about the lores of magic....
Lore of Nehekara is broken strong at the moment because of it's passive and a current bug, which replenishes ammunition
I play a lot TK a lot and stopped one IE campaign because of that bug. I did not want to get accustomed to my casket having unlimited ammo. But an ammo generating bug is one way to fix that lore. 😁
@@matthewpena3932 Vampire Coast and Lizardmen can use the same Bug
@@darthnihilus6211 Good to know and thanks for the info.
@@matthewpena3932 it's about the resurrection mechanic, that's broken, Vampire Counts could technically use this bug, but they don't have missile units, which they could resurrect.
I feel high magic can really do a lot of work i would even say the wind spell is one if the best in the game. i also like the cheep heal and the reloadskill reduction for focus fire. so it would be at least b tier for me. Teclis is with it a one man army.
i feel like debuff spells need to last a bit longer as i always feel it isnt worth the wom especially if i can deal direct damage that essentially works as a debuff on its own
I think that shadow magic on S and life magic on A should be other way around. Healing is just super valuable and most races have access to it only by that lore. Also dwellers bellow is a great blob killer. Shadows on the other hand doesn't give anything that I value as high as healing. It is good damage, but not so much that it would deserve S.
My personal favourite is lore of the deep, theming is awesome as you said and I just love casting vangheist's revenge at every opportunity! Free rotting prometheans also cool
Honestly the biggest problem with deep is that it is competing with lore of vampires so you basically have to take it for the theme rather than because it's the best option
@@peopleschampion305 deep has a better wind spell, summon and a vortex. It lacks heals/resurrect and WoD is usually good enough even though it can't one shot 3 units of Chosen with a single cast like vargheist's revenge. So yeah, vampire players usually ignore deep
@@peopleschampion305 Just play Cylostra, you get Deep + cavalry charges on command, and you can embed a hero if you want Vamp lore in the same army.
Honestly Deep is just a great choice in general, it may not be as blatantly op as some but the fact that it's exclusive to vampirates means it's really perfectly designed for their playstyle alone. Knocking down a column of enemies with a wave and then having your handgunners shred them feels incredible.
I like lore of deep too, but I usually end up using much more invocation of neheks haha
Personally I feel that the Lore of Death was a bit hard done by. Combining the Death Knight buff and Doom and Darkness can set entire armies routing, and causes absolute mayhem if you've got decent units to follow up with and turn the terror rout into a hunt.
Agreed. The supreme art of war lies in subduing the enemy without fighting.
Thats 19/28 lores in either A or S tier. Some lores may need to as you put it "have the cobwebs blown off" but as far as balance goes in regards to the developers... .👏
I was promised a banana for helping. But he never gave me one.... :(
Ice definitely doesnt deserve a tier and tempest is only marginally better. D and c tier respectively and while i love it, the lore of tides doesnt deserve a tier either.
Here's the deal with lore of death.
Most people forget how insanely OP soulblight is in any cav engagement.
Sure most people don't build cavalry armies, because they were underpowered in WH II, but they are better now and are worth a try.
And in MP cav armies are actually somewhat high tier, so bringing death with a good lord sniping option and an amazing cruch for cav is my strategy 90% of the time with DE and TK in multiplayer. And it works. Only wish I have is give Bretonnia a death caster and I would dominate the battlefield.
did you miss lore of shadows? i disagree with healing/dwellers below not being s tier. lore of yin was s tier before the nerf, but i still enjoy non moving vortex spells the most so it is still great. overcasting searing doom is amazong right now, makes lore of metal a top tier choice. Slaneesh and skaven stealth would have been d tier in my list.
I don't disagree at all with giving Lore of Nehekara a lower rating, but man do I enjoy using it. Sure it doesn't have any good pure damage spells, but the buffs it gives can be pretty powerful.
I also think Lore of Yang has my favorite niche application spell in Stone Ground Stance. It can turn normal horse cavalry into wrecking balls or stop a full charge dead in its tracks, and I've lost count of how many times it's proved clutch for me
S tier magics
1. lores of shadow
2. lores of life
3. lores of nurgle
4. lores of vampire
5. lores of tzeentch
6. lores of kroak
A tire magics
1. lores of metal
2. lores of plague
3. lores of ruin
4. big waaagh
5. lores of the ice(kislev)
6. lores of yin(cathay)
trash tier
all the other magics ..... except those A or S tire magics other magics are useless or unstable as fuk
I would've found it funny if you put deliverance of itza in its own tier, just called broken above S tier for shits and giggles
Nurgle is S tier and is basically a requirement if you are playing as a Nurgle faction.
I would put Lore of Slaanesh in A tier. It's usually a coin flip for me when choosing between Shadows and Slaanesh in campaign. Shadows is easier to use but Slaanesh can get very similar results at a much faster pace. For Slaanesh, haste is everything.
Hey wait a minute! You put Lore of the Great Maw in B Tier at 11:19
Then all of a sudden when you grade the Ice Court at 11:33 now it’s A tier!
They really need to review Magic its in shambles atm, shame on CA...
You able to do most fun lords?
lol, the next time he showed the tier list after ranking the great maw the lore moved up from B to A ( 11:10 )
Now do collab with Legend of Warhammer and settle this once and for all
Lore of Nurgle clearly S tier idgi
If you say 2 summons is auto S why not yin?
I think there's a lot of these that 1-2 members of the discord who use them fervently convinced you to put in A tier when they really don't belong there
Fire should be S tier, it falls off sure but you can get 500-1k kills easily with some good casts
you give A to missile mirror??
I just like Lord Kroak
Really wish you would make hour+ long videos
Lore of life is S tier definitely
I think youre overestimating ice by a huge amount. the spells are strong for sure, but the cost of them for what you get is ridiculous. you can only cast a couple a battle because of it. when im playing katarin i usually just spam her lvl 1 spell over and over
That Black Whirlwind change in 2.0 "AP damage 10 -> 4" really shot Eshin into A tier because now it's only-pro-player-friendly
Seriously though putting Metal, Life, Nurgle and Eshin into A tier means you/your discord community probably didn't use these lores a lot
edit: if you put Metal there just for Gelt or the Metal devoted WoC lord that get 0 WM cost on their metal spells, which is definitely going to be fixed as it should be -10% and not -10 flat is not a valid point imo. Or you should've mentioned it.
I literally said going off their basic stats and not taking skills into account
@@ColonelDamneders yeah and you also said that you don't pick some lores because others overshine them. So when do you pick Metal? In wh2 it was only good for Gelt. Here it was bugged for HE wizard on dragon (fixed) and also for WoC Lord (free spells, to be fixed). There's no reason to go for metal when you have other lores available so it should be somewhere in the bottom of the list
As for Life - amazing damage and heals. Easy S tier. Nurgle has the equivalence of Foot of Gork and a heal that is not capped to 4 units (unlike Life's) and can heal cap your whole army with just 2 casts; SS+ tier.
PS I really love your content, please don't take the criticism personally; maybe I should've joined your discord for the discussion. Keep up the good work.
I would love to see the spell you are talking about at the same time that's showing on the screen, and maybe a bit slower.
Anyway, thanks for this vids !
This is really nice, but you mention many times that a lore has "3 average spells, 3 great ones", or something to that effect. I don't see anything onscreen that tells me which spells are average and which are great, a visual would be nice here, like great ones marked in green or something.
you said big waaagh goes in s yet put it in a tier.
Is that cunningly brutal, or is is brutally cunning?
Tier lists like this are super frustrating. I want to see your finished list and THEN dive into why you placed some of them where they are. I can't do that if I jump to the end and your list uses esoteric symbols that tell me next to nothing about what each represents. And I have like a 1000 hours across all 3 warhammer games so I can't imagine the majority of people know what those symbols mean. And even if you solved that issue, you added chapters but not useful chapters. Partition them by school please.
Hmm lore of shadows is definitely c tier for me.
For me, ice, metal, deep are b tier. Deep would shine a bit more if it wasnt only vampire cost (i know it wouldnt be thematic, but I just use more vampire lore). Metal, ice and great maw feels like beast magic to me : I need to adjust my army composition around it to be effective, wich is ok but not great. Unlike lore of nurgle wich is simply breaindeadly effective and feels S tier.
Skaven lore of Stealth is absolutely terrible. It wrecks me that anyone would argue that it's S tier...
You speeding yourself up seemed unnecessary, I enjoyed the video, but would have liked just a bit more reasons as to why you think certain things.
I’m surprised at the end rankings. How did the results compare to what you expected before? I thought there would be more than just one D tier lore!
you - 8:02 "warp lightning is overpower, S tier"
also you - 2:40 "weeeell, bad aoe - B tier"
What wrong with you? Urannon now have same aoe for 4 mana with x4 damage (overdamage, so naturally x2) from warp lighning. Very strong at targeting elite infantry - half bar for 4 mana in blob. 10 of 10 urannon (4 winds) deal more damage, than warp lightning (6 winds hero, 5 winds lord).
This is not even to mention the fact that this school has a good vortex and a stronger comet (yea, not best). Lore of heavens is not inferior to fire (same flexibility to do damage) and definitely better than metal. With similar spells beetween this lores of magic with same tasks.
P.s. Lore of heaven have only 1 weakness - all factions that have it also have lore of life, except lizards. Haha.
You put lore of Ice and Eshin in A? This tierlist is a joke.
A bit strange to see both High and Dark Magic rated so low, considering the lore.
You talk too fast. Take it down 10-15% and it would be much more pleasant to follow your videos, especially since non-native English speakers might have a harder time with your accent to begin with.
Just a polite observation if you want to open up your videos to more viewers.
Lores of shadow, life, nurgle, vampire are best lores of magic.... Lores of fire is not an A tire magic and it's actually B tire magic....Lores of fire has only one good spell which is burning head.... Except burning head other spells are complete garbage.......
Way too rushed my friend 😅
I'm number 666
dude chill pls, why u are rushing like that, I finished the video breathless. the video is good but if you could take more time and more detail
First!
Dwarf are better than high elves in magic !🫡 I think we need high magic overhaul ! 😂