The Changeling Immortal Empires Campaign Review
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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I wish oxyotl was able to see the changling and the trickster cults. They could have this neat shadow war against each other.
Who wins?
@@OrionTheta1 Whoever isn't in the blast radius.
@@mguy5923 oh! So Ikit is involved as well :D
it'd be rad if they were rivals, yeah
@@AbominationalFailureikit will kill both of them trickster in his campaign steals doom rockets and skaven hate lizardmen
millions must build the useless nightwatch building
The empire has fallen
Except for the Dark Elves, it helps with their public order way better than their own public order building and doesn't cost slaves per a turn.
Saw the Changeling with Ghal Maraz earlier. It's over. The Empire has fallen.
@@redtsun67 say the line karl-jak!
@@jimgong1034 Summon the Elector Counts. The Empire has fallen.
I think one way to make the faceless horror mechanic work better is to have it function on the campaign map and affect the diplomacy of that faction. So you could transform into Franz and attack Boris and now Reikland and Middenland are at war (Like what we saw him doing in the trailer).
That sounds increadibly abusive but also increadibly funny.
I think either this or perhaps native benefits based on the LL or even just the race. Example, if you pop over to an Empire character you might get unique bonuses against other Chaos style factions. If you pop over to a HE lord then you'd get unique bonuses versus DE's, stuff like that. OR themed bonuses based on the race, HE's would get more magical and ranged based stuff, popping over to a Greenskin would buff your army's melee and such tactics, that sort of stuff.
@@khankhomrad8855to be fair lore friendly changeling is stupid op he just likes to meme tho. changeling is of those chars that if he wanted to take over the world he would do so effortlessly lol
sum1 make a mod of this pls
That just sounds like how The Changing of The Ways works already.
All of the changeling's mechanics outside of the formless horror really do make me wonder what if they were the Skaven's mechanics, so the not-so-obvious ruin with a grey seer recruiting outside it isn't so obvious
Considering the lore behind Skaven being that the majority of races debate on whether they even exist in the first place means that this makes complete and total sense.
Thats why CA wont do it.
I actually had an idea recently for a redesign for the Skaven, where basically every settlement they have becomes more like an undercity and its possible for their armies to stay fully underground as long as they own the undercity slot in a region. Possibly with other factions being able to accidently colonise the space on top without knowing.
I sure hope not. This is manageable if it is just one faction. An entire race playing like this? Nope. No thank you.
Skaven suck. CA gave them all these cool mechanics and they are still the least played faction. People only like them for the stupid meme's LMAO
@@exavierobocanegra8092Since when are Skaven the least popular faction? Legend often stated that the reason for why he uploads Skaven disaster battles so often is because thats the majority of the savefiles he gets. Did you mistake them for Norsca by any chance?
The Changlings form changing ability should be available on the campaign map to allow you to move around the map as that character, so with their military access or trespass penalties applying to their own faction
Doesn’t make any sense considering that your character moving is an entire ARMY. Not literally the 1 character represented on the screen. Pretty sure the elector counts would attack if karl franz came marching through with an army of Daemons and chaos warriors
@@chadgoose7886 they don’t care what’s in the army, and it could simply remain hidden, as a gameplay mechanic. For example, if you’re playing as Gelt and you see two Karl Franz on the map, one you can see the roster of their army, and the others roster is hidden you’d then be able to determine who it is, but the AI wouldn’t care, giving you interesting complexities to both being the Changling and playing against. Because right now it’s just be invisible, appear out of nowhere and ruin peoples day.
@@tuppytheducky for pure gameplay yes, but I’m taking more on the role play and verisimilitude side of things. In that it, the army is not hidden to all the villages you March through. Word would spread fast of a daemon army marching through stirland
@@chadgoose7886 yes, but this is a game, and not one that does an incredibly stellar job of representing the world that was, and on the scale of things the game does/doesn’t do that make sense in the lore, this would be a fairly minor thing
Good idea, but I would change one thing about it. Instead of being hidden, the player could see completely different units than in reality.
For example, instead of a unit of doom knights, we would see demigryph knights, and only when the army would attack and during the battle would we see real units. It could be an alternative mode of movement, such as an ambush or fast march.
A fun way of getting more use of the different forms is maybe having campaign effects. Like if you're Karl, you get diplomatic relationships with the empire. Or if you're someone like a vampire faction you can raise dead
That seems like such an obvious thing to have. Also would be good if some inquisition would always try to take out your cults so you always have to be cautious.
nahh, I wish when you use a form of a magican that you get a random number of their spells in the battle and the rest are your own spells. Right now you can transform into someone who uses magic but you can't use any magic
@ thedanklordger5094
That’s one of the changlings line unlock skills. Iirc the mid tier upgrade gets you abilities and the end tier gets you spells.
Tbh formless horror is kind of ultimately pointless as Hellbrass is honestly the superior form to swap back and forth from. Barrier and regen on a melee lord form complements the changlings default caster form too well especially if you take the sword of khaine.
@@shmekelfreckles8157 i hope for that when they rework all cults
Thinking about the catch 'em all stuff gave me a simple idea.
Either baseline or as part of the formless horror skill tree add +1% to a most stats while transformed per known form.
That way you have a reason to go collect more and could eventually be better that some lords.
CA: “look look! New campaign! Fun fun!”
Legend: “how have the mighty fallen”
I lost a trickster cult by building an ally outpost in the same city xD
Fun fact; Tzeentch originally won the Great Game of Chaos. He got so bored he reset everything but put greater limits on magic. Sort of like this campaign. If there's no challenge there's no fun. And the gods fear boredom more than anything else
@@NM-lz8xcprety sure the tzench thing is cannon. Carlo draigo could also potentily be cannon. I heard some were that 40k is a world held in a christal ball located in some tower at the college of magic.
@@paulseed1065The references to the 40k universe got made non cannon I'm afraid
@@NM-lz8xc The version I read was that Tzeentch was so powerful the other three Gods had to team up to equal him, until they succeeded in breaking his Staff. He then lost his control of Magic, and every shard of the Staff became a spell. The Scribes were then sent forth on an impossible task to catalogue every spell in the Universe, which if they ever succeeded would make Tzeentch pre-eminent amongst all the Chaos Gods again. Which they can never do, because now mortals have the ability to invent new spells, and so there will always be new Magic to be discovered. But the lore has developed a lot since I read this, so it might no longer be true.
@@paulseed1065 Both Warhammer Fantasy and 40K used to make little references to one another, but none of them are canon. It used to drive the fanbase nuts when a book in Fantasy showed a little illustration of a Bolter or similar, but GW decided long ago to keep the two universes separate. Whatever references we find are just a wizard's weird dreams after eating something dodgy.
The changeling I found is more fun if you make up some schemes. stuff like making the high elves rule Cathay or make a minor faction a major power. (so just be an agent of chaos and troll the ai)
Or making Thorgrim write a grudge book about Elves. Make up a culture of hating elves and trees and stuff. Maybe invent a chad dwarf picture to be posted around to that effect. Also we can help Grombrindal with his problem of being friends with one of them too. Just a random thought.
Yea thats what I did in my Changeling campaign, my major side objective was to help N'Kari claim all of Ulthuan lol
I've tried doing stuff like that with Snikch, basically being buddies with someone, hiding behind them and just being their private assassin corp. Kinda hard to make any useful friends though...
I had the same experience. Got about 70 turns in and realized that I basically couldn't lose. I did the schemes just to see how it ended, but it turns into a fairly boring campaign. This seems like a good learning opportunity for CA. They have so many races that use the hidden base mechanic, but the AI still regards settlements largely the way they did in TWW:1. If the AI was more active in hunting down hidden settlements, and building detection buildings/heroes, this and the Skaven campaigns would be so much more challenging and fun. Not that I hold out much hope that this will ever be addressed.
I feel if they made the AI do that, they'd be too good at it and it'd be impossible to manage your under empire anymore.
@@OMoanaigh It would be challenging to implement, no doubt. But, you have to go so far out of your way to get the AI’s attention to hidden settlements now that it’s laughable. Just having them favor detection buildings slightly more might be enough.
I faced my friend in a multiplayer campaign where they played the Changling, and I Ostankya. It is still a nightmare removing trickster cults, even when you do know how to do it. The thing is, The Trickster Cult can go into negative discoverability, but the discoverability of heros and buildings can never go past negative. So as long as they only build the symbiotic buildings, you can have as many heroes moving through your territories as you please. As long as they're discoverability is in the negative, they can never be found, and the Changling can never die.
But in a normal campaign you would have to try to lose by turn 70 anyways right?
The Skaven campaigns are 10x the campaign this is. Undercities are cool just not how it's implemented with this faction.
Informative as ever. Thanks Legend!
It's a shame you can't choose to masquerade as a faction when you take on a lord's appearance. I feel like that would be really fun, but also pretty flavourful to the lore.
i.e. if you appear as Karl Franz, you could attack Louen Leoncoeur to drag Reikland and Couronne to war. Or you could stand in the Altdorf region and recruit from it. Perhaps even be able to conduct limited diplomacy if you're using their faction leader, perhaps breaking one agreement per turn.
Perhaps masquerading could be limited to a certain number of turns after you defeat a character, so that you have to keep changing forms rather than settling into one.
Yeah some limit to it, maybe if they find a way to implant the ai learning your not who you are shaped into all the buildings owned by the faction have a higher chance of discovering your trickster cults, so their is some risk but great reward, it’d give the trickster cults some way of being taken down
Speaking of stealthy tactics, would you fancy to make a stealth units and/or stealth tactics tier list ? Why Snikch overcomes Oxyotl, do shadow walkers beat shades, are dwarfs rangers likely to survive against elven waywatchers, are nasty skulkers the best level 1 stealth unit, or is that ungor raiders, that kind of things... That seems to lack in your otherwise very impressive videos arsenal...
I love your overviews/reviews and tier lists.
Wurrzag is also a nice niche lord to transform into. The buffs you get from the spells AND the foot of gork are really hefty...
I personally struggle at difficulties higher than easy, and it takes a lot of effort to play a normal campaign. I'm more into the epic looking fights, the thematic armies, the empire building, and the lore gathering than I am about giving myself a challenge, I'm perfectly content simply auto-resolving and only manually fighting battles as I see fit. I'm one of the only people who enjoys the Vortex/Realms of Chaos campaigns. With a few bug tweaks, the Changeling would be my favorite faction to play. As it stands right now, though, some of the schemes get canceled for no reason which is infuriating, and I'm worried that I won't be able to collect all the forms.
An interesting use of the formless horror would be to either give a significant debuff to the enemy's leadership when fighting that faction, or a mechanic similar to Slaanesh seducing units, where you could just remove units from the fight.
Or it could provide an active ability available when you fight that faction on the battlefield, where you target a unit that joins your army, either for a limited time or until it routs, which would feel pretty Tzeentchian
I found Belakor and Nkari to be the best choices for lords to change into - fast, high mass with (no mount options so no disadvantage) high physcial resist with spells and armor piercing. Also have passive healing abilities that dont need magic. Also the changeling gets access to buffs and very strong items like the chainsword or Sword of Khaine with no real downsides. So campaign wise can end up with high resistances and plenty of armor piercing. With the blue scribes hero and aekhold hellbrass you have additional healing options. With just the three of those in your army you really dont need anything else.
Thanks for the review legend
about the tranformation: i think you could make it much more interesting to collect lords if you could level up your different forms. say you like karl franz, if you fight a lot as him, you can actually level him up and get access to his skill tree.
would add a lot of depth and long term enjoyment
It would also add a level of "do I want to obliterate this faction yet or not?" And potentially "welp, gotta kill those dwarf armies or my vampires gonna get clapped before I can level them all the way". I like that idea, definitely leans into the scheming side of things, playing the literal long game.
I eagerly await for Yuan's overview with his half a dozen mechanics over his siblings while being a better caster and duelist.
I can't believe High Elf trade vision died for a dlc perk....
Yes was hoping you did another set of these. 🎉
Loved it for the Tzeenchian prank playing, and for setting up a worldwide conspiracy, also the green knight with sword of khaine and all that jazz having 80% phys and 72% ward resist, on top of 150ish speed was quite strong!
'Playing chess against no-one' is a very apt description from what I've gathered about this campaign (obviously I haven't purchased the DLC lol). Like a lot of things in WH3, it pre-supposes an AI which is much smarter than it actually is - or CA simply couldn't be bothered not making the Changeling completely busted for the player.
It raises a strange philosophical question - is there any point to a scheme if it has a 100% chance of success? Maybe this is a kind of hell for the Changeling and they truly are cursed.
It's fun to cause havock in the Empire. Out of that, the fact that you must raze everything to end factions makes it feel like you're never progressing much. Most grand schemes have little to no effect on the scenarios because they spawn rebels that the AI can easily whipe. Only one I found interesting was the Empire one as you can see all elector counts fighting each other and Vlad cackling through. As Legend said, might be fun for some turns but then you realise you're actually doing nothing.
I picked up skarbrand's form and that felt pretty sweet having the ability to demolish single entities.
Would have been cool to have debuffs in the formless horror skill line based on the faction you are fighting. Stuff like -10 leadership enemy armies in region, if same faction as transformation. Going up against men? Might be worth taking an objectively weaker Karl just to stack debuffs on the opposing army. Makes sense that it would be scary or disruptive if you see the opposition lead by your own "team" but seeing a giant red demon or a random lizard leading a bunch or blue demons probably does not cause the same feeling.
I've found this one to be a lot more fun on the smaller realm of chaos map. That way it goes by fairly quickly and you don't burn out trying to finish the campaign.
Super nice to play with friend. You don't need setlements and ready to help anywhere on the map. Force peace or war and just have fun together =D
Not so much chellendge. But finally your armies will march together in one way.
Yes it's too easy but at least it's different and thematic for the Changeling. I think they could make the cult disappear if the settlement is razed or a skaven undercity is created (it makes sense that skaven would purge the hidden cult members). It would be a little more challenging but there is also the need to gift settlements to an AI faction then or you will be too dependant of the AI to colonize ruins.
Meanwhile the AI in battle they almost always finds your troops hiding in trees
I feel like what they need to do is make Skaven Undercities, Pirate Covens, and Chaos cults mutually exclusive or at least stack their detectability against each other, and make it so those factions all can see each other even if the regular factions can’t.
This way all these secretive underground factions can be fighting each other in a sort of underground campaign layered *beneath* the main campaign, and it’s only when they make too much racket that the order factions come down to smack the fools for making a mess of their cities.
This isn’t to say the secret factions should never be allowed to conquer cities as well, but if undercities/cults were their primary settlements instead of secondary settlements, and if those factions had to fight each other for real-estate, it’d be that much cooler and allow for fewer direct fire threats to order factions that are otherwise overwhelmed by enemies (looking at you, empire).
I really like this style of campaign is quite cool. I hope we get something similar for other demonic factions. The cult style. I also have the feeling that this is what the skaven should be really. I wouldn't mind an update or mod porting this to them.
I had a lot of fun. It's a great "chill and screw around" campaign
I had a good time with it, really liked it. But as you said i play on lower difficulties and more of a roleplayer than min/max etc. What i most of all like with it is that it is an extreme variation to other campaigns. LOVELY that :-) Hopefully more DLC will have different stuff like this on Immortal empire campaign.
I think it would be a cool feature if the changeling gains the ability to steal legendary items after defeating the same legendary lord multiple times in the campaign. Imagine what shenanigans you could get up to. Like putting the sword of unholy power on Teclis by stealing it from Manfred and then changing into Teclis. Or maybe the warpsword of khaine on grimgor.
I think the formless horror mechanic should allow you to take up to three forms into battle but you aren't able to stay in one form indefinitely. Maybe a two minute countdown before you "tire out" holding a specific form and then that form goes on a cool down. It'd incentivize you to collect more forms and not allow you to just stay in one form the entire time.
I really really want to love this, I love the idea, but you are right thayblack of challenge makes it fall flat. If only the quest battles were more interesting, but they are so jokingly easy too. I think it could be way better if there was some build in challenge to e.g. keep certain but changing factions alive. I had some fun saving Karl Franz from Greenskin endgame crisis while being at war with him, but this would need to be build in somehow.
This could be an interesting coop campaign with some challenge, as you lose if your ally lose.
The changling is the best coop campaign support piece. He could help any faction
The Changeling speedrun isn't to paint the map, but to intentionally lose as fast as possible.
The forms would be so much better if they had an impact in the campaign map, like the trailer advertised. So for example if you were shifted as Karl Franz, whenever you fight a battle as him, that faction would get diplomacy negatives towards Karl Franz (because they think he attacked them.) That minor change would add so much to the playstyle, so you could truly be a manipulator.
There's a lot of missed potential here. I was looking for something more akin to what some factions can do with spending a resource to increase/decrease relationships between factions. Maybe transform into a lord and infiltrate a different faction, fight an army with their units and then watch the chaos unfold, or some ability to get into a 2-way fight between two other factions as a third party (I.E. not as a support for one of the factions, but as a neutral reinforcement) with consistency. Something that makes you feel like a tricky menace that's just out to ruin everyone's day instead of a bunch of oversized rats in a trenchcoat.
In multiplayer, something tells me that changling is a huge pushover when you play as him, cause as him, you'd need to spam cultists to try and remove other players' heroes. Unless it works differently, somehow, when a player is fighting another player in the campaign map. Cause realistically, if the opposing player ends up getting enough hero's, they can literally just march them all throughout the entirety of the land cleaning up one cult after another, with the changling being able to do little to nothing about it really outside delay the inevitable by attempting wounds and assassinations on said hero's.
I feel like once the DLC is on a deep sale, it will be really fun to play The Changeling in a VS campaign with friends.
I've waited for this :)
Best Transformation imho was Belakor - access to a good lore of magic, tzeentch level of winds, Flying, later down the road even a Sword of Khaine and with all the Character buffs the changeling gets he makes Belakor even more of a beast.
That with the Legendary difficulty is actually a thing for me as I'm not playing on Legendary because I'm old and can't play the manual battles on larger scales without pausing the game now and then to issue orders and read up on the myriad of Spell and Skill effects of my characters ^^'
They need to give easier access to the shapeshifts. Like being able to transform into any LLs of a faction once you defeat their faction or complete their scheme
this is basically the antithesis to Nakais campaign whilst still being a horde faction
I enjoy the power feel from this campain, I feel like the greatest trickster. It has no replayerbility but play it fist time I feel like I am playing Tzeench.
i wish the changling could also do generic lords as well
It would be kind of redundant, given that the majority of generic lords are just downgraded legendary versions
@@RogersRoger I guess tho if they got their mounts it could work as the warered down version of a legendary lord until you kill them it's just a thought
Ide have liked it a bit more maybe if he could take the form of the enemy lord at the level you defeat them at, but he can only uphold that form for a limited time on the battlefield.
U just cant lose. Legend uploads again!!
"Let's jump to the wall here" - CZcams subtitles.
I can aporiciate with Legend, in my first try I got the long victory for "beat" the undead crisis.
A way to make the changeling better would be to have him come with summonable troops, and also maybe have some campaign map presence such as racial faction wide augmentations such as the green skin trophy mechanic
"Im you, just better" Ironic
Yea I mainly agree with all you stated here, he does just seem very powerful, it seems more like a gimmick campaign that wears off quickly
Seems like it could be a lot of fun in a multiplayer campaign, since people will actually try to find you
Can you turn into the sisters of twilight then? seems odd being able to be 2/3 characters at once as they have no unmounted option...
From what I've seen on streams, characters who have no unmounted option do come with their mounts.
I got N'Kari as my random character reward. Very strong.
Would make head to head more interesting for sure.
I just go into kugath vs low ranged and into the dragon lady vs high ranged the healing is really good.
I played and finished a campaign as the Changeling on Legendary/VH but did not even get the achievement for finishing the campaign on Legendary or finishing the campaign as Tzeench at all nor did I get the "unlock all changing of the ways actions" achievement
I feel like you should be able to select 3 mimic forms per battle they time out quicker the stronger the lord is to give you a reason to use the more fragile ones.
I found kugath and Ghoritch to be really good for changeling.
So a changling is effectively ditto the pokemon.
think ya nailed it. its a fun and neat campaign but early on i sacked a city counting on my camo to keep me safe and i got attacked somehow and lost and thats when i realized the campaign is impossible to lose. you just wage your secret war. i used the sack building to sack altdorf and even though my cult was discovered probably 8 times , even then noone destroyed it
I'd buy that for a fiver
I think the ability to take on the form of lords and heroes could be better if they made it so you took on the abilities and mounts if the lord when you defeat them.
My review: it’s fine.
I'm loving this campaign. First one on WH3 that I have played over 200 turns and had fun the whole time. Just running around messing with everyone. Once you get the formless horror skill line completed, two man doomstack; tranform into Archeron and have Aekold Helbrass along with the Sword of Khaine. Aekold has a constant healing aura so you just keep them within 35 meters of each other and burn down the armies. Also, you don't have to defeat a legendary lord to get their form, a defensive alliance will also get it.
I’ve used Isabella quite a lot in my campaign. Can just tank and just spam heal
For me it felt like playing Minecraft on creative mode…
Indestructible settlements (that allow you all open slots on creation btw), undetectable armies, all LL/LH forms… it’s just meh.
Should have just been a LH with the transformation mechanic.
i really liked the fact that i could play the entire campaign just with 1 Army.
They should add a skill that enables a high level Changeling to transform into TWO legendary lords/heroes in a battle. We’re supposed to be a shapeshifter, but instead it feels like you’re just recruiting a ghost of some other character for a turn. Being able to have TWO forms at all times would feel much better and would enable really good form combinations, and it would make transforming more useful than only having one watered down form. This campaign is already OP why not just give us this
I love the faction as a whole but trying to get enemy lords to leave their settlements in order to achieve the land battle scheme is practically impossible. I've resulted to spawning a rebellion but even then I have to wait another 10 turns to enact it again.
Raiding also makes you hidden in provinces where there are no cults... I think if certain stances made you visible it would help make the campaign more tactical.
What if you besiege them and wait till they attack you? Doesn't that count as land battle?
@@TheBod76 not sure though the added reinforcements from the garrison normally makes me not want to seige....plus the danger of being attacked by another greater army.
I think ultimately this is the most "Sandbox" campaign where it's not about the challenge but about tooling around as much as possible, if you want Allarielle and Tyrion to kill each other or something this is the campaign for you.
it would be awsome if the changeling could pick 3 characters to switch in while fighting allowing for a very powerful character and not just something that transforms into nurgle thing for heal
This should be the recommended first campaign lol
Just give the Changeling super weak stats at the beginning and much more potent defeat traits, so you can catch'm all and become the strongest.
They should make it where he can only turn into the enemy lord directly, no collecting at all
I get the feeling that shadows of change was a dlc that looked really good in the planning the stage but just didn’t come together in development. Hopefully they learn from this.
It would have been interesting if they made the transformations affect the original character's faction suffer diplomatic penalties for any actions you take while posing as them (both positive and negative).
The changeling as the fay enchantress was very fun and OP in my campaign. 110 armor, mortier engine effect, 30% phys resist, 20% wardsave, lore of life.
Super fun!
I feel like the changeling is better than lord kroak or the green knight by themself (as in transformed into them)
This campaign is mainly for those who want to gather one all-victorious army and go beat faces and collect artifacts without worrying about their settlements.
I've lost three trickster cults over the course of several Trickster games. Tor Yvresse, Belegar and Talsyn really didn't like them when I built nothing but parasitic buildings. If the cult has at least two symbiotic buildings in it, the AI has no interest in removing it is my guess. Bel'akor is probably the best transformation for Changeling.
It's so easy, as well, to cheese siege battles with this as well.
I got super lucky in my first game, and got Azazel as my first transformation. Siege battles become a definite win, no matter what I'm up against. XD
Changeling as Ku'Gath with the sword of Khaine is silly heh.
Does the green knight stay on foot? What about the sisters, do they just fly on birb?
I do feel you should get the mounts, would have been funnier. I chose to use Be'lakor, since he gives you flight.
So much for the DLC team saving the game, I guess. Here's to hoping my favorite games start turning it around!
So basically a campaign either for learning/playing the new character or one enjoys being invincible 🤔
I would say that this campaign is good for people who try to have every achievement but don't feel confident enough to play on legendary level difficulty to get "Legendary Strategist" achievment
How does turning into a guy and his dragon make any less sense than turning into 2 people? Because the Sisters of Twilight and the Blue Scribes, are both available as transformation options.
Agreed