How Wizards Control Muggles from the Shadows - DARK Harry Potter Theory
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- The introduction of the International Statute of Secrecy in 1692 marked a pivotal moment in Wizarding history. It put a stop to the witch hunts and unjust persecution of witches and wizards.
It ushered in an era of harmonious co-existence.
And most importantly, it separated the two worlds: muggle and magical.
But what IF there was a darker element to the statute that has never been properly explored?- an element that concerned the muggles beyond the primary separation of the two worlds? What if the statute, and the subsequent formation of the Ministry of Magic- marked the dawn of an era wherein wizardkind stealthily wielded control over the non-magical world, deftly manipulating it from the concealed depths of the shadows?
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The British prime minister being controlled by dark forces would explain a lot tbh
Maybe it's why Brexit was so stuffed up by the British Parliament lol.
oh man that made me laugh!
For your exit question, I feel we need to remember that our history of wizards and witches and their history are both far sides of the spectrum, so while we can say “the wizarding world has always taken the moral high road and never did anything bad, and it was all muggles”, we need to remember a lot of people sided with Voldemort and Grindy, so we shouldn’t pretend every story of evil witches and wizards was just propaganda. I feel it’s naive to believe that the wizarding world has always been the morally correct ones. Especially since in the Harry Potter books, you see corruption in the ministry, it’s highly likely there has been a couple things wizards have done that they did their best to cover up. Like the ministry lets there be a Dark Magic street in the UKs biggest shopping district where evil wizards can do their business in broad daylight, if they were as squeaky clean and morally straight as people pretend, that would of been shut down.
Grindy and Voldemort were freedom fighters...they fought to protect innocents. Don't believe all the propaganda against them, they were loving individuals that cared about muggles
They're basically human. It's a given they are lying about the past to some extent.
Amen. It was basically the same thing George Lucas was trying to do by way of his creation of the Jedi, which were directly based on the Tibetan monks. Basically recognizing that the idealism itself is completely based in light but that there were individuals in the organization who, for one reason or another whether it be fear or anything else that no one is perfectly good and completely immune from the temptation of any kind of corruption, including, but certainly not limited to moral corruption. J. K. Rowling herself has always specified that wizards and witches are human beings. That magic is a gene. And therefore have the same exact dualistic nature as Muggles. We all need to learn to better manager nature.
Boris Johnson trusted not to reveal magical world lol
Never mind that in theory the other wizarding governments would likely also interact with the local most supreme head of state. If Johnson would reveal the truth, Trump would be blabbing about it during every other public appearance and blaming them for covid, his election loss, and every one of his trials.
I mean Boris is a wizard, and there's video proof of him casting spels
Yes, I can confirm Boris speaks in tongues but that just means he’s possessed, not that he’s a wizard 🧙♂️ 🤷♀️
😂😂😂
I think JKR covered this in The Order of the Phoenix without involving the Imperius spell:
“But,” said the Prime Minister breathlessly, watching his teacup chewing on the corner of his next speech, “but why - why has nobody told me - ?” “The Minister of Magic only reveals him- or herself to the Muggle Prime Minister of the day,” said Fudge, poking his wand back inside his jacket. “We find it the best way to maintain secrecy.” “But then,” bleated the Prime Minister, “why hasn’t a former Prime Minister warned me - ?” At this, Fudge had actually laughed. “My dear Prime Minister, are you ever going to tell anybody?” Still chortling, Fudge had thrown some powder into the fireplace, stepped into the emerald flames, and vanished with a whooshing sound. The Prime Minister had stood there, quite motionless, and realized that he would never, as long as he lived, dare mention this encounter to a living soul, for who in the wide world would believe him?
Rowling, J.K.. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Harry Potter, Book 5) (Kindle Locations 12864-12871). Pottermore Limited. Kindle Edition.
This can't be from The Order of the Phoenix. It should be the Half Blood Prince
The Imperious curse over the Muggle PM would answer a lot of questions. However, I think Boris Johnson was hit with a bit of Obliviate a few times. Especially when younger.
I’m surprised, they never used the real name of the prime minister
And to my knowledge in 1996 and for the majority of the Harry Potter series, it was John Major
Here's an idea for a future video. Is their a lore reason as to why wandless magic isn't taught at Hogwarts? It just seems like a useful ability to have.
It’s extremely difficult to master and it’s just generally not a necessary skill to have for most careers unless you’re going into being an auror or something. Would make sense to have it be an elective DADA course though.
@@Evoker23-lx8mb I'm sure that it's difficult to master, but in a wizard school like Uagadou, it's an elective. Heck, Natsai Onai seemed to have a pretty good handle of it, and she's a fifth year at Hogwarts (though I guess this depends if you consider HL canon). I'm not saying they should teach it to first or second years, but maybe ease into it as the years go on.
Wouldn't it be better for Wizards who grew up in the Muggle world and learned the culture to have run for high positions in the Muggle World like in the US, England, Russia and etc..
So after watching this I re-read Chapter 1 of Half-Blood Prince. Some thoughts:
Throughout the whole chapter, which is written from the PM's perspective, the PM seems quite lucid (if often confused, which is natural), which is not what you would expect from someone under the Imperius curse. In fact, Scrimgeour actually states that the Ministry of Magic is undertaking operations to prevent the PM from being placed under the Imperius curse, which includes placing Kingsley Shacklebolt in the PM's private office.
As someone who has been a member of a British political party for almost a decade, and who follows British politics very closely, I would also say that just controlling the PM would not be enough to effectively control the Muggle state. The PM is generally held accountable by his party's MPs, and as we have seen in recent years, the governing party is prepared to drop a PM if they are seen to be a liability. There is also the case of the civil service - if the PM started acting inexplicably on certain issues due to magical coercion, it would probably be picked up on by many different civil servants who expect the PM to follow certain procedures. If the Ministry of Magic wanted to have effective control over the Muggle government, they would not just have to put the PM under the Imperius curse, but also the Cabinet Secretary, many Cabinet Offfice officials, at least some of the departmental Permanent Secretaries (thinking Home Office in particular), key officials at MI5, the Speaker of the House of Commons, and officials within the governing party. Given the scale of the Muggle government, the size of the Ministry of Magic and the limits of what the Imperius curse is capable of, I just don't think it's possible.
Finally: It has been suggested that the Muggle PM in the books is John Major. However, Chapter 1 of HBP makes it clear that the PM of the early to late 90s won by defeating an opposing party in an election, rather than succeeding a PM of the same party. Indeed it explicitly refers to the PM's predecessor as "he", so the PM can't be Major, whose predecessor was Thatcher. Presumably in the HP universe the Muggle PMs follow a completely different timeline. Although I suppose it could work if in the HP universe, Neil Kinnock defeated John Major in the 1992 general election.
And yet I am reminded of the saying "power corrupts." Concerning human nature and wizards taking the moral high ground, it leaves me to wonder with so much power at their finger tips did they truly take a moral high ground, or simply the became satisfied that the ends justified the means.
its a ticking time bomb, if the ministry is the only true safeguard for muggles against dark magic. Voldemort was able to overthrow them, and many wizards sought to subjugate muggles.
"What if a new Prime Minister was of dubious morality?" I don't know; I think we're kind of used to that by now.
i dont agree with your reasoning.
people change as time moves on whether we like it or not. both muggles and witches/wizards. i think that the muggles of modern day would simply think its farfetched that magic is real and so are witches/wizards, giants, dragons, sphinxes, etc.
if the muggles till have the same mindset as those in medieval times i would agree that the imperius curse could be justified. however, in modern day, like i said i think the muggles would find it farfetched. i dont believe the imperius curse would be necessary to place on the prime minister to influence the government.
after all as fudge said in the prisoner of azkaban when answer questions for the daily prophet “…i have the prime minister’s assurance that he will not breath a word of Black’s true identity to anyone. And let’s face it - who’d believe him if he did?”
there is also at the end of chapter 1 in the half blood prince that the prime minister basically knew he couldnt say anything. for if he did no one would believe him that magic exists.
I question the claim the books make that muggles persecuted wizards. The average witch or wizard is FULL of spells that muggles have no defense against. Doubly so before firearms.
I would have assumed that in practice, it would be those who opposed the magic users who will be the ones persecuted, if not reduced to a mere footnote in history.
Perhaps in such a scenario, magic-hostile religions might not have taken root at all, or at least be a minority sect, or even attracting a large following from the downtrodden under the yoke of sorcerers.
Controlling others by government is never moral
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few." - Leonard Nimoy / Sentinel Prime
Why not the unbreakable vow so if the PM told, they would die? If Imperious, wouldn't this be a punishable crime? Did they have an exception for the unforgivable curse?
And after the prime minister's term is over they could use obliviate to wipe all the knowledge of the magical world they would have.
its it possible to put that mind of secret under the fiderlous (dont know how its spelled). so they cant tell a soul cause their not the secret keeper?
Since one needs malicious intent when performing the unforgivable curses could one perform them one oneself or would that not work. Would be interested to see that being discussed in a video
I can't believe I've been dragged into this, but here goes: what makes more sense is for a memory charm to be used. The PM is only 'consciously' aware of magic when the charm is lifted, but they maintain an unconscious awareness and their activities are guided by this internal voice. It's easy enough to 'persuade' them of the need for it through the subtle threat of people with lots of power talking about the previous history of their interactions, and likely results if the balance was upset.
I have another theory, what if aliens control humans from the shadows in our real world?🤔
That closing quote is just what the doctor ordered.
Well, that could explain Blair, Brown, and Cameron. 😷However, I don't see it with Churchill.
I do not think that the PM is the only one who knows, since the monarch, who is the defacto head of state and the sovereign in the UK, would have to know, just as the US President does. The monarch would be over both the Parliament and the Ministry of Magic. Royal assent would come from them. In the US, the President would have to be over the Congress and MACUSA. If not, there would be a hidden nation, and sovereign, in a nation state, with no head of state. That could lead to a great civil war.
Brilliant and well-supported theory. However the use of "Imperio!" seems a bit extreme. That "messenger" portrait in the corner of the PM's office might also be observing all that goes on, and reporting back to the Minister of Magic who can then visit the PM and intervene, perhaps with an "Obliviate" if needed. Still ethically cloudy, but at least not an Unforgiveable. I fully agree that it's quite risky to trust a brand new PM with such an enormous secret. Perhaps there are wizards in the PM's office/cabinet, like Kingsley Shacklebolt, also keeping an eye on things and steering away from trouble?
Why am I researching history of British Prime Minsters and their peculiarities? 😂
Another amazing video from my favourite CZcamsr! to answer your question, I think you’re onto something here because JK didn’t really go into how the PM was expected to keep his mouth shut, and Fudge’s comment doesn’t cut it. A series please!!!! One for the last 100 years, each PM… how they could have been influenced by the WW! 🙏
Tbh wizards do know whats best, theyre paragons of virtue and honesty. They should just take over and be given command of us all. It just makes sense for muggles to be ruled by their superiors
This would make a lot of sense...
Interesting theory
I've always felt the "real world" parts of HP lore were easily the weakest (Harry presumably attended a mundane school from 5 to 11 - did he never mention his uncle kept him in the cupboard under the stairs? And after he stopped attending Muggle schools, did they think he was now home schooled, in which case, he should receive home visits from the local council to check he is in fact getting a suitable education?), but the incident with the Muggle PM makes it even worse. Not only is the Wizarding World profoundly undemocratic (nobody ever mentions elections and we hear that Dumbledore was apparently offered the post of Minister of Magic - the closest we have to a Wizard PM - apparently multiple times without any talk of them voting him into office. Though I've not seen it, apparently Fantastic Beasts takes this one step further and posits that you can become Minister by being bowed to by a magic goat! To have this self selected group running not just wizard kind but potentially the Muggle PM is rather disturbing.
I think Hogwarts would use a pseudonym but would essentially act like a private school like Eton and report to the education authority that the child is in education. But yeh the other things you point out are less easy to explain
What you say could be but then- What is the point of banning the curse if that is the case? I think more in the direction of bribery, doesn't have to be money but anything beneficial for the Muggle PM so that he will keep quiet.
They should’ve use this as a defence where in court for for that party
It might depend on which Prime Minister. There is a good chance it is set so that the👑 CROWN King/Queen ALWAYS have the✨ knowledge and that the PM will NOT be informed (or be memory wiped) if the Monarch informs the magical community of his distrust of the *current PM
If this was the case the why would they need to notify the muggle PM about certain things. Like Sirius escaping makes sense so he an warm muggles but what about he other stuff
that dreams comment at the end is only relevant in specific situations. its not as wise as you seem to imply. Telling people not to dream is same as telling them to be drones
You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the quote.
There is not reading of this quote that tells people not to dream.
It's literally saying the opposite, we cannont DWELL on dreams, while forgetting to act on them, or LIVE.
I always thought that a war between wizards and modern armies would be disastrous for us, yeah muggles are numerous but magic is a hell of a weapon. putting aside the killing curse and other combat spells, the ability to turn into an animal, apparition, the invisibility spells, etc, they could easily infiltrate government facilities/nuclear silos and there would not be much we could do to stop them aside from putting an entire army to guard them, once inside they only have to charm the muggles to fire them at each other.
we could have a harry potter x fallout crossover xD
also remember that this control would wax and wayne from minister to minister ; depending on their personal beliefs.
John or Bruce?
I think it be weird. if the Wizards did that on the PM. because they seem to want to take the "high moral ground" and if they did that. They be pretty much same as the muggles. even if the muddles did not know. the wizards in there hearts would know what they are doing is wrong. to use one of the unforgivable curses. I think your theory is valid. But, I feel like the wizard world has just as many problems as the muggle one. even if they did go after witches etc. I think a few people already made good comments below showing maybe not all the "Evil witch and wizard" stories were false... we know some are very evil. though it dose seem like a majority try to do the right thing. But, Muggles do that too. Great video man! Thank you. Made me have fun thinking about this!
Interesting and frankly logical hypothesis.
Does anyone else in the grovment no about the wizards
Maybe it could be a very limited or limiting spell with only pre proscribed reasons to communicate or act.
2:21 Devin castle in Slovakia
That's what the obliviators are for! Keeping it all under control. Lots of lip service is paid about protecting muggles from magical abuse. Or even significant harm.
This is rather hard to believe. Far more likely is avoid incidents of public exposure to magical events. It's likely that the most common occurrence of imperious charms, is against muggles. As long as a death, has a solid muggle explanation,
Given the way Arthur Wesley is treated. One does get the idea that dark wizardry has a relatively free hand. So long as they don't cause noticeable mayhem. Like the death of Tom Riddle's muggle father. Quietly murdered by the son he rejected.
I don't doubt the option has been on the table from time to time, maybe even deemed to be necessary. Particularly in the beginning, when the witch-hunts were still in living memory.
But I don't really buy them doing it continuously as a precautionary measure all the way up to today. It seems too brutish and un-subtle, despite the secrecy of it. Its like you say, Wizarding-Britain consider themselves the "superior" society. They are also famously uninterested in muggles, if you are interested in muggle-stuff you might even be considered weird (among the older generations, at least)
As for why the muggle prime minister wouldn't just reveal the existence of the magical world, Cornelius Fudge explains that pretty well in the Half Blood Prince-prologue, I think. Even the prime minister does tell, who will believe him? Even if he does try to prove it, the wizarding world has plenty of ways to stay hidden. Basically "tigthen up" their adherence to the Stature of secrecy while the muggle-PM tries to reveal them.
If it comes to that, I'd say the ministry of magic is in their full right to use Imperius-curse on the muggle-PM in self-defence though.
All the dialogue between fudge and the PM would be redundant if this were true. The whole first chapter of DH is in the perspective of the PM which is not narratively cohesive with this theory.
How do they then prevent owls and people on broomsticks from being spotted by muggles?
If Muggle PM was under the imperius curse then why was this not brought up in HBP. I mean Fudge even says after the Muggle PM asks "Why was I never told?" Fudge says" are you gonna tell anyone?!" And the Muggle PM pretty much shrugs like "Yeah you're right. I won't"
Idk if you read any of the comments but I recently had a thought about the shrunken heads in Harry Potter and I think it would make a really cool video :)
czcams.com/video/aw-PSlIlK5Y/video.htmlsi=Q-7ESCVKqP6v4MDY
The video talks about how Victorians wanted the shrunken heads, because they were just so odd and cool to have. But there’s only so many genuine heads. So of course the demand exceeded the supply. And people started murdering folks from tribes and turning them into shrunken heads, “fake” shrunken heads. And it talked about one shrunken head in the museum that was discovered to be a woman. And it talked about how it was proof it was a “fake” shrunken head, victim of murder, because women are NEVER warriors.
There’s a shrunken head in the Harry Potter movies, with a Jamaican accent.
Jamaicans didn’t shrink heads
1. Shrunken heads are still alive after being murdered in the Harry Potter universe. They have been alive for decades.
2. All of the shrunken heads in Europe in Harry Potter are wizards or witches (or muggles???) taken from African.
3. The shrunken head on the night bus in Harry Potter is a victim of murder. He was a Jamaican muggle or wizard who was kidnapped and murdered and turned into a shrunken head and sold to the Victorian European people and has been alive since then
4. How did magical blood get to such secluded African tribes? Or did wizard colonizers come to Africa and learn to shrink heads to sell them in Europe? And that’s why some are able to live and move after death?
How interesting if magical ability could be explained using muggle and the effects replicated such that muggles could be artificially granted some form of magical ability; likewise using the same "technology", the magical ability of undesirable could be stripped or suppressed.
Something like the Sands of Nisanti from Doctor Strange which has the ability to nullify, negate or suppress any and all forms of magic.
Despite the separation of magical and mundane, I have always seen the minister for magic as being below the prime minister. Just as the PM is below the Monarch. The reason I say this is because the leader of the magical government is not referred to as prime minister or president. And thus the citizens of magical Britain are still subjects of British Monarch. At least in the USA the head of MACUSA is addressed as president. Therefore magical and mundane USA can be considered properly separated into 2 countries.
Not great wizards if the get caught by muggles
Ethically questionable but ultimately a compromise, think about it, informing the PM at all is an act of confidence and a display of faith, however from there they might feel the urge to exert control over the ministry of magic for muggle concerns, particularly doubts over their ability to control dark wizards and magical beasts, its natural that a powerful muggle would take issue with the ministry considering historical failure so I wouldn't blame them for feeling like greater safety measures (IE muggle control) are necessary, however they would simply be too naive on the situation it's best the ministry simply deny the PM any influence.
It would be like "Hi PM, congrats on your election, just letting you know there's all this magic stuff around which we manage, I know you may be tempted to worry about these things but you will have to trust us, yes we have to power to control you completely, but there's nothing we can allow you to do about that so let's just make the best of it."
❤ Awesome as always thanks
"Because of this I think that wizard kind have demonstrated that they are the better society from an ethical stand point, and have therefore earned the right to exert a small degree of power over muggles." My brother in christ, they condone slavery to this day. ABSOLUTELY they do not have the right to violate someones bodily autonomy.
I think that what you theorize about in this video is extremely probable. As you said after centuries of being persecuted by Muggles how could they simply trust the most powerful politician in the British Government? Who most likely didn’t get there without a degree of cunning, resourcefulness and ruthlessness.
However the other side of the question concerning morality whether this is the proper choice is more murky. I’m sure Grindelwald thought he was doing the right thing for both Wizards and Muggles both in his mind, for the greater good. When you use Muggles previous actions, and their history to rationalize exerting power over them, you are on a very slippery slope. I’m not sure what the proper decision is. But power and control over others isn’t the answer in my opinion
I generally do understand the wizarding world was persecuted by the Muggle world for centuries so of course their would be distrust especially on the wizards side of things look at the witch hangings,witch hunts throughout out history they were brutal!
Side note I do love how the Harry Potter franchise incorporated that history into their lore but that aside.
I know this is a dark theory but it seems like a subtle form over revenge to me especially on the wizarding world side of things to be controlling and puppeteering the Prime Minister of the Muggle world. I’m sure if the British ministry of magic was doing it the rest of the wizard world ministers would be as well in this scenario.
I do realize there’s no ill will in controlling the Muggle leaders it isn’t to hurt but to protect the wizarding world and its people from persecution but still one the 3 unforgivable curses is being used keep in mind in my opinion the least threatening of the 3 but still taking away somebody’s free will but it is for the right reasons so they don’t out the wizards to the muggles.
I’m sure one of the many reasonings for the wizarding world leaders to do this would be (History tends to repeat itself) so I don’t quite blame the wizarding world but morally it feels wrong to me even though it’s for the right reasons.
Plus let’s not forget the wizarding world governments and officials and leaders are honestly being hypocrites if they’re using a unforgivable to do all this and yet they’re banned for everybody else to use but we already know parts of the ministry is corrupt!🤣
I do hope I’m making sense here. Tell me what you think below. 😂
governing bodies always reserve horrifying powers for themselves that are illegal for the citizenry to utilize.
I think putting the British prime minister under imperio is gross, I think there's a reason it's an unforgivable. I also think that if a magical community were aware of world war two, as you're implying, also implies that they either were responsible for, aware of, or didn't care about world war two. Especially if there was axis of evil components doing the same thing in the German, Italian and Japanese ministry equivalent.
Or the statute is also muggle international law
I don't like change
Or they use the unbreakable vow.
Explains Brexit
To think how much peace the imperius curse could bring to create real peace and no more dictators all over the world but only true leadership and love❤. It has always been my favorite of the three forbidden curses❤.
video idea what if mcu and harry potter same world how would they react to dr strange revealing themselves to world along with helping to saving the world from thanos (after end game)
The Muggles seem to have been proven correct about the potential for immorality amongst the ruling class of the wizarding world. Humans cannot guarantee their successors will be as moral as they are, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely. The modern wizarding world was all to eager to serve Voldimort during both of his reigns as the strongest dark wizard, there are many dark wizards pretending to be moral and upstanding... just waiting for their time to revolt
Personal I don't see a problem with them being cursed if it's just to keep their kind safe and not force them to make the political they want.
Well said on ethics!! It's a good dilemma. It is fascist but its responsible and I'd say ethical given how passive it is with no repercussions as the wizards did police and such. As always its a good video
cooooooooooooolllllllll
👍👍👍
I think your theory makes sense because of the ignorant misguided theocracy’s of muggles. After all, it is what was responsible for the persecution of witches and wizards, and it’s still a huge problem to this day
I agree with an earlier commenter. We know history from the point of view of the Witches and Wizards, not from humanity, and we only know of the Western world's views of what happened, and a skewed, mostly BRITISH view. The writing has always had British imperialist tones to it (look at how the multiple schools are described and how they act.) They are as morally high grounded as most humans. So I disagree with your entire premise here, because it HAS to have moral supremacy to even partially work.
😊🎉🦁
Just like the billionaires
The division of the Muggle and Wizarding worlds is nothing to be celebrated.
Imagine, for example, if Democrats had no idea that Republicans even existed.
(Or vice versa.)
This puts Muggles at an immesurable disadvantage.