Ask Ian: Tractors to Typewriters, Non-Gun Companies Making Guns?
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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From Brian on Patreon:
"Would you give your thoughts and comments on non-gun companies making guns? For example Baldwin Locomotive/Eddystone 1917s, IH Garands, GM M-16s, most M-1 carbines, maybe even TRW M-14s. How did the experiment work out?"
I would say that the experiment worked very well. Springfield Armory was tasked with developing production tooling for various US military production items, with the express purpose of aiding private industry in tolling up for mass production. This was an essential element in the US being able to exploit its industrial dominance during World War Two, with dozens of non-gun companies able to come online making munitions quickly and with relatively few problems. Nothing is going to go perfectly, but the track record of American non-gun companies during the war was no worse than the firms like Winchester, Colt, and H&R.
By the way, if you ARE interested in modern defense production logistics, I would highly recommend the channel Perun:
/ @perunau
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In his memoir, David Brinkley, wrote when WW2 started and in the rush for typewriter companies to convert to manufacturing guns, the US government discovered that as the military bureaucracy expanded it needed lots and lots of typewriters. Until companies made up for the shortage, people were assigned in shifts to typewriters 24/7. A poster of the time said: "An idle typewriter serves Adolf Hitler."
When my paternal grandfather joined up in 1914, anyone would could use a typewriter was creamed off from the basic recruits. As a teenager, grandad had learnt to use a typewriter while helping with accounts at a relatives rubber tyre company. Thus, already having the key IT skills of the day, he ended up as a Staff Sergeant at General Allenby's headquarters in Palestine.
that's actually kind of funny as well because navy ships and army headquarters needed tons of very complex teletypes that were made by the same companies
Propaganda never sleeps...
Not propaganda, all communications.
@@MarvinCZ na the US is right behind germany with our love of paperwork, the scale of the war time government is like on par with the size of the government today. The Pentagon back then didn't have enough office space
The two places you'll find a Steyr in Ireland is A. The AUG in the hands of the Irish Defence Force or B. A Steyr Tractor trundling down the road 😁
@@mattrobson3603 Yes, they made Pizgauer, though I belive that ended up witha UK company, at least for British Military use, and they also made the Haflinger. That got turned around (The orignal was a rear engine) and became the Fiat Panda 4x4. they have the Steyer -Puch badge on them as well as Fiat.
Same with Husqvarna. Take your Husq ATV with your Husq rifle to the woods.
Also Zetor tractors can be seen in Ireland, those were made (and infact still are) by Brno Armory in what is now Czech Republic.
I loved being in Austria and seeing all the Steyr bicycles. And yes, Steyr makes offroad vehicles including the G Class for Mercedes as well as other 4wd cars.
Well, as someone who lives very near to the Austrian city called Steyr... I can tell you, it's different companies: Steyr-Mannlicher (and/or Steyr-Arms), Steyr-Daimler-Puch, Steyr-Spezialfahrzeugebau and some more. The share the name "Steyr" because they are named after the city and still to this date, that city is a very fertile ground for any sort of technical metal working (even SKF came to Steyr to build there first production facility outside of Sweden).
I was once issued an M-16A1 manufactured by "The Hydramatic Division of GM." This was the early '90s and it clearly had been around the world several times. It was probably the most intrinsically accurate 16 I ever fired. You could low crawl through the gap between the upper and lower, but it ran flawlessly and printed tiny groups.
Always wanted a GM Carbine.
"What kind of rifle is that?"
"Buick"
I'm still waiting for Ferrari to start making rifles so I can say "it's the Ferrari of the ak world" and have it be true literally
Worked in IT before I retired. By the time I thought of looking for an IBM carbine the other nerds had driven the price out of reach.
wouldn't it be Dodge-y?
dude u funny, looool
@@grahamlopez3742 I think the closest you could get is Abercrombie and Fitch guns.
In Sweden, the reverse happened with Husqvarna. They started out as a gun company (the logo is still a rifle sight) that later made just about everything else and is now pretty much known for small engine items.
And next door in Finland you have Valmet (Neles)…(cars, ships, valves, paper machines and industrial control equipment).
South Korea its Daewoo (who do cars etc).
@@allangibson2408 I was surprised when I learned that Valmet made Saabs in RCR's big video on Saab.
@@MilsurpMikeChannel They also built Porsche Cayenne’s… (it was a running joke on a project I worked on about if they could chuck one in a box (the boxes paper machines come in are rather big)).
Orbea in Spain now make bikes.
@@hakimcameldriver Husqvarna started out making rifles and expanded in the late 1800s to all the other stuff. I go over the company history in my Husqvarna M38 video. Also, only Carl Gustafs made Ljungman rifles if I remember correctly.
A friend used to have an M1 carabine stamped Rock'Ola.
Nothing wrong with it,but it gave you the feeling it should play records if you loaded it with nickels.
I saw a Rock'Ola carbine for sale at a gun show years ago, and I've always regretted not getting it.
IBM, Standard, and Underwood, all better known for typewriters, also made M1 Carbines.
I have a National Postal Meter M1 Carbine
My dad has a Rockola M1 Carbine.
Actually, the Rock’Ola M1 carbines are considered collectible.
On the other hand, Remington started out making firearms and later diversified into typewriters, office equipment and even electric razors. And here in the UK, BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) became a major manufacturer of bicycles and motorbikes.
I would rather have a BSA Gold Star than any gun the company ever made.
@@eloiseharbeson2483 Well, fine, if you like motorbikes - which I don't. But if you like .22 Martini action target rifles - which I do - I can't think of a better brand than BSA.
@@eloiseharbeson2483 why not both?
@@eloiseharbeson2483 ....well..my BSA .308 Alpine would disagree....
Any word on when we'll see Remington reincarnated guns? I miss a 700...
Ian's answer should come as no surprises since this is essentially what the Soviet Union did with setting up production of AK-47's in their client states by providing the technical data package and aiding in the setup of the production line very much like the old Springfield Armory for US companies in WW2. And to some extent, this was how the British was able to build so many Sten guns; the manufacturers included Britain's largest toy company, Tri-ang Toys (a.k.a. Lines Brothers), who actually made the Sten even simpler to produce. It seems that in some cases, these none-gun companies did a better job than the traditional gun companies in part because the none-gun makers had a clean slate and approached the manufacturing with fresh eyes.
A former coworker of mine grew up in Poland when it was on the other side of the iron curtain. He worked at a sewing machine factory and was telling me that every so often some military officials would show up and the entire factory would change over and build AK parts for a few weeks. Then one day he'd come in, the military guys would be gone and they'd go back to making sewing machines.
I'm surprised that Ian hasn't recorded an april fools video in Finland going over a classic Valmet tractor yet.
I'm honestly waiting for Ian to review classic Daisy airguns for April Fool's.
@@ianfinrir8724 Daisy did make actual firearms, too!
It's also interesting to note that during the Great Depression, gun companies like Colt's and Winchester branched out to manufacture other items because guns were expensive and most people could only afford necessities. I have a number of Winchester screwdrivers and a set of adjustable pliers made by Winchester in my collection. Colt's Plastics Division, Colt-Rock Plastics, manufactured everything from buttons to beauty creme jars to electrical products to supplement cash flow during those trying times.
I have a Winchester branded ball peen hammer.
As a big International Harvester fan for their light trucks and scouts, an IH made M1 is definitely on my list!
I rather have an IBM made M1 carbine. Would fit well with my Thinkpads 😛
Have you contacted CMP in Anniston, AL? They just got a bunch in from the Philippines.
Better get on that soon. IH examples are exceedingly rare compared to Winchester / Springfield
Hell yeah, an International M1 would look great in my old Scout.
Had a chance to buy two of them consecutive serial no.
Still Kicking myself for not buying them
I really like these one question at a Time videos rather than the hour or longer multi-question videos. I just find it more focused and interesting
The educational order of 1911 pistols made by Singer (sewing machines) were of such high quality the war department removed them from the list of possible vendors. Somebody was bright enough to realize that if Singer was diverted to arms production there was nobody with the skills needed make up the loss of sewing machines. Personally, I'll take a usable weapon into battle over a superlative weapon and going into the conflict with no pants.
Parachutes?
@@alwayscensored6871 mostly uniforms I’d imagine seeing as only a fraction of the fighting force is airborne
How about wearing a kilt? Unless you don't have the legs for it.
you making a lot of sense bro, tbh if you ask me, let Singer make sewing machines, leave gun making to Colt, so we can shoot for fun, and instead of ww1, the germans and french should have had a dick measuring contest to decide wars! and guess what, no one will be needing pants for that contest!
Also in 1938 the US economy was not exactly rolling along. The manufacturers were likely eager for the business
Eager for business, but averse to the risk of investing in a dead end...
My great great grandfather was Rand of the Remington-Rand typewriter company. We manufactured 1911’s for the war effort. I heard many stories from my grandpa of what it was like working there as a young man.
I appreciate his efforts. We all should have listened more.
James H. Rand? He was a very patriotic American and was very proud of the effort his company made during WW2. Early in the production of 1911s they were having quality issues, and Mr. Rand shut down the entire company for a couple months while he hired/fired key personnel and had the entire factory floor re-arranged for improved workflow. When production resumed in mid-1943 Remington Rand ended up making more 1911s than Colt and at a better price per unit to the government.
@@DK-gy7ll Yes sir. We had some bad issues with our pistols early on. I actually have a couple of the very early production ones from trouble shooting when we started noticing the flaws. There was a story, anecdotal, given to me my by great grandmother, that when she was a receptionist there during the war, my great great uncle, who was too young to serve, worked on the assembly line, not sure what stage of production, but from what I can gather closer to the end. He was about 14-15 at the time, but like most young boys, loved firearms. He grabbed one of the pistols from production and brought it home as a new pistol for himself. Well, his father of course noticed the brand new 1911 on the table and asked about it. He didn’t get mad, he understood the temptation as we all would, but ordered him to return the pistol to the factory to be sent off to war, saying that pistol would save some young man’s life one day. I wish I knew the serial number on it. But yeah. No idea if it’s true or not, some of it likely is, but either way, I’m proud of my family’s contribution to the war effort, and the many Remington-Rand 1911’s I own are testimony to that.
@@ILikeToLaughAtYou Grateful for his service to our country, especially acknowledging and doing something about failures with the 1911. A family story about that... my father's oldest cousin was serving with the U.S. Army in Karachi when his small convoy was attacked by local brigands. His 1911 jammed, but fortunately he survived and my grandfather mailed him a U.S. Navy-issue revolver. I was able to hold it decades later.
Thought it was Joseph White.
"It seems unlikely that we're going to get into another war on the scale of ww1 or ww2"
Oh God he's done it again
Never say never...
And that's why I drink, people!
ww3 is gonna make ww1 & ww2 look like child's play unfortunately. Then the aftermath will be even worse as I believe much industrial capacity will be lost worldwide. The winners, if any exist, will have something left to work with. The losers, well, it's gonna be bad.
Oh god. Gun Jesus Nostradamus at it again 🙃
I know, right?!?!
Another good example is Glock, they made tools for the military, but when Austria needed a new pistol, they were quick to deliver
That was the first one that came to my mind, Glock 1-16 were not firearms. Then the RFP came out for a military hand gun, and Gaston asked, "How hard could it be?".
@@tyrannosaurusimperator I mean, those guns aren't exactly what you'd call unergonomic, either. They're just fine for the job.
Besides, you could always fix that problem yourself, or find other people's solutions to it.
Yep, Gaston Glock started with car radiators, then made curtain rods, before branching out into manufacturing entrenching tools and knifes for the Austrian army and ended up making pistols for the Austrian army - which then became a world wide hit.
Interestingly the commonly known/told story of how well his pistol was received has recently been disputed by the officer in charge of the selection process for the then new Austrian army's service pistol. He claims that they originally wanted a Beretta 92 variant but Steyr intervened with the government to get their Steyr GB pistol selected and orders came down that an Austrian pistol had to be selected (aka the Steyr pistol). However the GB was considered too ambitious with the built-in technology and too unreliable due to them. So they approached Glock to design a pistol to be trialed. The Glock was considered acceptable and was thus selected to satisfy the requirement that an Austrian pistol was to be selected.
Which story is true? Who knows.
And now they branched out to breeding horses too
When I went in the Army in 1973, my M16A1 (at least the lower) was manufactured by GM's TurboHydramatic division. I guess casting and machining a M16 lower isn't really that different than an automatic transmission.
Mine too. At MCRD San Diego in January '77. I used to say "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and M-16s" making fun of an old Chevy ad jingle.
@@Mishn0 ROTC summer camp at Ft. Lewis, 1970. I had a Hydramatic as well.
Substantially easier than manufacturing automatic transmissions
The more I find out about the role, history, and projects of Springfield Armory, the sadder I get about its shuttering.
It makes me sad when any gun manufacturer shuts down operations, no matter who it's for.
Try to snag a copy of "Hatcher's Notebooks" if you can find one. Julian Hatcher was involved with Springfield Armory for years and retired as its director. Lots of cool stories and good info.
I agree, I think that was a very bad idea for innovation and manufacturing of guns, as most of McNamara's cost cutting ideas were bad were bad.
SA lost the government contract between the wars. Rolls Royce saw an opportunity. RR aficionados still refer to the ones made there as Springfield Rolls Royces.
If I understand the story correctly the Armory, as well as the Pentagon weapon development bureaucracy in general, had become pretty arrogant after World War 2. They were good designers but rear echelon types who thought they had a better understanding of tactics than the combat arms did (basically the keyboard commandos of their day). They'd dictated that the 7.62 X 51 would be the NATO standard rifle round and that the main battle rifle rather than assault rifles was the way forward and then insisted on their own M 14 rather than accepting the FN FAL for no other discernable reason than "it's not our American design".
When the development of the AR15 into the M16 proved that private companies could produce effective designs the senior brass at the Pentagon decided they didn't need to put up with the BS from their internal design bureaucracy anymore and just shut it down completely.
Really liking the new bite sized QnAs. Thanks for the videos!
i also hear about gun companies making non-guns like ZB (Zbrojovka Brno) made Tracktors Zetor or Daewoo making almost everything ( there was a point in my life when i owned a Daewoo car, microwave and an K2)
There was a Czechoslavakian company called "Skoda" that made guns and a lot of other things. I don't know who they are now, but I think they are still in business some reorganized way.
@@eloiseharbeson2483 Iirc, they make cars now
@@eloiseharbeson2483 they just make cars, didnt know they used to make guns
Part of the VW group. They also made tanks, railway locomotives, heavy engineering etc
Korean and Japanese industrial firms tend to be very diverse in what they build.
I was stationed on a Medium endurance cutter while in the Coast Guard. We had a 3in- 50 caliber gun on the main deck. The block had "Fischer Price" on the side of it.
In England, the Enfield No 2 revolver was made by "Auto Harvester". These contracts probably happened in most industrialized countries.
Albion Motors as well.
Most likely seeing as most countries won't have the weapon factories to produce all the weapons they need during a large scale war.
Wasn't Singer a big arms producer?
Lines Brothers made sten guns too
I've always wanted an International Business Machines M1 Carbine to keep in the home office.
You know, for accounting.
When I was in the Marine Corps Reserves in the late seventies we had a 45 in our Armory made during the war by the Singer sewing machine company. I would love to have been able to buy that gun just for the historic value. It's performance was equal to any other handgun in our Armory.
Was it singer 1911s that were the rarest?
@@itsconnorstime Singer only made 500, so yeah. Some have auctioned for over $80,000
Orbea made Spanish small arms from 1840 to 1936, they now make bicycles
I have one in my garage!
That's some interesting history! The shop I work in is an Orbea dealer, this will be an interesting tidbit for many of our customers
Not just Orbea. BH, the other all life long Spanish bicycle maker also start as a gun manufacturer. The first full auto broomhandle Mauser-like pistol was made by BH
Steyr was prohibited from manufacturing arms after WW1. they ended up making automobiles and bicycles during the Interwar. Come WW2 they retooled and made guns again.
And it's still a brand of shotgun shells, 22 LR ammo, etc. in Argentina
I believe singer, the sewing machine company, dabbled in gun making at one point. As someone who sews frequently (tactical gear typically) I've been interested in what firearms were made by sewing machine companies at various points in history, but I think they do it under different company names so it's not easy to look up.
Sewing machines and small arms (like SMGs and Pistols) are mechanically similar with small moving parts reciprocating at fast rates are of the same manufacturing tolerances.
In fact, sewing machine oil can often be used instead of gun oil on your firearms.
There's very little difference between sewing machine oil and gun oil when it comes down to brass tacks. I'd sooner use sewing machine oil than motor oil for the job but when in a pinch, it's just fine. =]
The most known sewing machine factory that makes guns is in my country, you probably heard of it: Cugir! I find it fascinating that so many factories like it transitioned to guns in the commie block, and apparently in the usa too.
I have one of the Remington UMC 1911 handguns made around 1917. It was rearsenaled, then stored until the Korean conflict, at which time a digit was added to the serial number and issued to a soldier -- my father, in this case. He was a psychiatric social worker stationed in Texas for the entire conflict, then mustered out with my father. He left it to me in his will and I still have it
Zebco use to make bombs during WW2. Now they make fishing reels.
Not just any, either, but Walmart tier reels.
@@AJadedLizard" K" Mart too. G.E made the first Mini Gun's also.
Zebco at one point was much better than it is today. Their new reels/equipment are chinese garbage.
@@AJadedLizard ah hell a zebco is the best catfish reel money can buy
"Z"ero hour "B"omb "CO"
An interesting tangent to this topic: Pylon and the L96.
TLDR: Pylon did not make L96s well. Accuracy International almost killed in process.
Yup: czcams.com/video/Z-j3Isreqbg/video.html
Excellent example, Ian said that the L96 debacle did kill Pylon. As he said in that video, we make missiles, how hard can it be to make a rifle, famous last words.
@@Jimtheneals Their mistakes were most definitely semi-intentional.
@@petrucercel9855 Agree, I think most of it was their arrogance, as Ian stated in that video, they thought they knew better than 3 guys in a garage. Well THAT didn't work out the way they thought.
To be fair, something like an L96 is kind of a worst-case for a nonspecialist manufacturer: not only is it a precision weapon, IIRC it was also a more-or-less new kind of precision weapon at the time (so even hiring a guy with experience in traditional bedded-stock target rifles might not solve the problem). Sort of like saying "bicycles aren't all that hard to make" and then taking an order for those carbon-fiber Olympic types.
Before WW2 Tri-ang Toys had one of the most modern factories in Britain for making sheet toy trucks , they ended up tweaking the Sten gun design and made about 800,000 mark 3 Stens .
@@zoiders I'd hope a cutting edge facility could make a gun that I'd could make in my shed lol
@@chancedavis6216 Yes but could you make hundred of thousands of them because that's the real trick .
@@iroscoe How much time ya got? You can make 800,000 of anything, the question is how long it takes.
Ian: "Guns are really difficult to make"
Alexey Sudayev: "Hold My Beer"
Hmm you mean Vodka
@@jalpat2272 He means Zhigulevskoye beer.
Khyber Pass Be like "Hold my Haleem"
@@shifty198885 Large quantities of _good_ guns are difficult to make.
@@ostiariusalpha pps is good enough for what it was, but you indeed right as the most complicated guns part to mass produced obviously were the barrell and receiver. Some countries were/are bypassing the problems by using polymer with various degree of success, like the Austria with the Aug to Germany that returning to complex alloy receiver (g36 to 416)
Expanding the potential sources of military production makes complete sense, as long as they're working from an already designed weapon and data package. The problems arise when incompetent, perhaps non-firearm engineers DESIGN the firearm. Yes, L85, I'm giving you side-eye.
If you are interested in the history of the L85 and you do not already own a copy of 'Thorneycroft to SA80: British Bullpup Firearms, 1901 - 2020' by Jonathan Ferguson' (as produced by Headstamp Publishing) then you may want to treat yourself to a copy.
It gives a very comprehensive account of how the L85A1 came to be and how design and manufacturing faults were later remedied by the A2 and A3 upgrades.
I went to the Husqvarna factory museum this summer.
This company has been around for a few hundred years, they literally started out making matchlock muskets but have branched out since. They have thousands and thousands of items in the museum, most of wich can be categorized in a few distinct, but equally significant product lines:
Firearms,
cast iron stoves,
motorcycles,
chain saws,
sewing machines and
miscellaneous kitchen appliances.
They are a household name here in Sweden, stick to what they're good at. It may seem a bit random but all products seem to fit comfortably in their place.
The museum sits by the (sadly dry) waterfall that powered the hammers in the old forge. The company's head office is a five minute walk down the street.
Huskvarna is the name of the city, the mill and the brand. They are all inseparable.
You have answered this question before but was great to hear more derails in this expanded version. I am loving this deep dive series. Thanks
This was a great video, Ian. It answered some questions I didn't know I had, and some I still have, but forget to research... As a professional writer, former soldier, and gun enthusiast, I have been seriously interested in weapons made by companies like Remington Rand, L.C. Smith & Corona, and others. Thanks so much! Really enjoy your channel and watching someone talk about the wealth of info he has rambling around in his head... Lol!
You can probably roll with this in the future and allow each company to add their own unique flair to each gun. Imagine a BIC G36 with its signature clear plastic replacing the polymer body.
and the orange plastic firing smaller calibre for a finer line.
That sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.
Some examples from Australia:
"Diecasters" went from making precision, die-cast fittings and components for general industry to the not-quite-right "Austen" SMG.
Lysaghts" were and still are in the sheet-metal fabrication caper. "Normal" products included roofing materials, rolled and folded structural steel, etc,; They turned out a fair stash of the eccentric, distinctive but utterly functional "Owen" SMG.
"Slazenger"; famous for sporting equipment; tennis racquets, etc, made an enormous amount of woodwork for Oz SMLEs, Brens, L1A1s, Owens, etc.
The New South Wales Railway workshops went from purely rail-related forgings, castings, etc to artillery components.
The GM-owned "Holden" company produced parts for 40mm Bofors guns and a tiny run of .38 revolvers.
The only thing that kept Lithgow ticking over for much of the interwar period was their ability to produce "civilian" goods like sewing-machine parts, sheep-shearing hand-pieces and precision spares for aircraft. Post-war, they also went back briefly to making "civilian" small-bore sporting rifles
Most of the manufacturing techniques are fairly common across a range of products. Drop-forging a wrench vs. Bren body is mostly a matter of "scale". "Heat-treating' gun parts or engine / gear-box" parts ?Same equipment, same basic procedures; adjust for metallurgy and away you go. .
The other thing that happened, globally, was the changes of thinking.
There is a classic story about when GM went to look at Colts factory, with a view to getting into the game "for the duration. At the end of the tour, the Colt bigwig apparently asked for feedback.
Allegedly, the GM reply was something like:
"You people don't make guns; you make metal shavings; guns are your by-product".
Not unlike the thinking that drove the MG-34 / MG-42 business.
The way you spoke on this topic really exemplifies your expertise in this topic. It was an incredibly impressive summation of the topic and I hope this video gets the appreciation it deserves beyond the historic firearm community
When I was active duty I was an Aircraft Armorer. I worked on weapons and weapons sustems for the Kiowa Warrior, we still have several.50cals in the sustem made by GM, and AC Delco among others.
This is fantastic. I absolutely love these dives into the procurement process. A series devoted to procurement would tickle me to no end.
Could listen to you ramble all day, truthfully. Great Q&A
It is so interesting to hear about government actually being useful.
The government has _always_ been useful, it's just 4 decades of baseless anti-government rhetoric has convinced gullible people otherwise. It's very disheartening, the government is not a bunch of aliens from another planet, they are our fellow citizens doing their best to support our country. Suggesting anything else is unpatriotic and un-American and frankly, disgusting.
Thanks Ian for another Q&A!
What a huge difference in mentality! Here (Argentina) we had an excellent example of a company that went from tractors and trucks to weapons (HAFDASA, the manufacturer of the Ballester Molina pistol). And changes in the weapons legislation ended up bankrupting that one. Sad greetings from Patagonia. PS: One question, is there a collector's market for weapon gauges and other tooling?
A small but enthusiastic one.
I collect tools, gauges and documents, including drawings for components and jigs. I need to go and find another "used" vertical plan cabinet as I just "inherited another batch of drawings.
It actually helps make sense out of many manufacturing questions.
@@bruceinoz8002 Inherit? That excuse no longer works for me with my wife. In addition, I have also used "I won it in a raffle", "I bought it from a friend's widow who sold it almost as a gift" and some others. Thank you very much for your answer.
Some Sten Guns were manufactured by UK toy company, Triang, probably due to their experience in producing toys made from steel pressings.
A friend of mine has an M1 Carbine made by IBM.
FYI, the DH Mosquito had assemblies built by many non-aircraft manufacturers. Those that spring to mind were the Co-op, RNLI, Decca Records, Gillows, and Parker-Knoll (both furniture makers).
Interesting video, thanks Ian.
Lines Brothers (Triang Toys) designed improvements to Sten and manufactured them as Sten MkIII
"Someone in a totally different blast radius" - that's my new favorite phrase!
Thanks Brian, for paying for the question! It’s one I’ve often thought about in the past.
Poland: 9mm service pistol WIST-94 is made by PREXER, known of making fishing reels, and some cinematography equipment including 8mm tapes and projectors.
Great question, great topic…
I’ve always been fascinated with the Evansville/ Chrysler/ Sunbeam story of WWII .45acp production. Chrysler made millions of rounds of .45acp in one of their factories that was sitting idle at the time. They also took on the task of making steel cases from scratch, and I believe they also invented the vacuum sealed spam cans for the war in the Pacific. They repackaged millions of rounds in wooden crates to the new spam cans to protect the ammo from the tropical moisture. That level of government / private industry cooperation will never be seen again. There’s a small book I read that’s called “Bullets by the Billions” which is still available on line for a modest price and it’s a fascinating story.
Thanks for the video Ian, I’m enjoying these single question shorts, I guess my attention span can’t handle the hour plus videos.
When I was quite a bit younger, I worked in a factory in Connecticut. before WW2 they made tools and hardware, During the war they made M1 Garand gun barrels. I assume they went from our town up the road to Springfield, Mass. or to a Colt facility in Hartford.
Love the indepth answers, but still miss the longer q&a videos.
Really enjoy these short Q&As vs the long ones. Rarely have time to listen to hour long vids.
Very interesting topic. I'd like to see an entire video on the subject.
Isn't this an entire video on the subject?
I love this Q/A format!
Zastava is a good example, cars & guns for the lads
Steyr used to make a bicycle called the „Waffenrad“ (lit.: „weapons bike“). Despite the name, it was not armed, the name was just intended to evoke an image of ruggedness and quality craftmanship.
It was made from 1896 until 1987, and a few years ago the brand was revived as an electric bike.
That was a great question and you gave a comprehensive, detailed informative answer. I really enjoyed this one. I am also fascinated by the fact that the WWII German MG 42, was designed and some manufactured by, a small sheet metal working company, that had up until that time, been only manufacturing light weight home whears, such as lanterns. Keep up the great work Ian.👍
Thanks, that was really interesting and a question I had had, but never articulated. I like the new format of shorter Ask Ian videos, answering one question.
Zbrojovka Brno in Czechoslovakia went in the opposite direction. They started making rifles, a diversified into tractors (Zetor), bicycles, typewriters, computers, and ball and roller bearings (ZKL).
The armory is long since closed, but Zetor and ZKL still carry on.
"Education orders." All my decades of reading about WW2, I'd never heard of this. But it's really quite genius. Thanks for teaching me something I didn't know!
also, Springfield Armory, yet ANOTHER thing McNamara destroyed.
Most of this wasn't news to me, but that fact about why International Harvester got its M1 contract was! Fascinating.
Way back in '89 I got to my first duty station in Germany. I was assigned as an assistant gunner in a 4.2 inch mortar squad. Our cannon was made by Whirlpool in 1952.
so lucky to have gotten my dream gun from the CMP, an IH with an LMR barrel. Good addition to my collection of IH stuff, have a cub lawn mower, Pickup and scout, and a few larger tractors
Good subject, something that's fascinated me for quite a while
Basspro/ Cabelas has multiple M1 carbines made by IH and tons of other cool old guns on their website, even a Civil War Henry Rifle that was bought by a Union Army unit.
In Wales, Uk, The Lion Cycle company made Stens, but they did'nt know how to do Bluing so instead they electroplated their guns with chrome, before painting.
I can remember being told growing up in Winston Salem, NC, that the RJR plants down town cigarette machinery could be converted to make ammunition for the government. All of that is long gone from the 1980's buy out in any event.
I took a picture of an immaculate International Harvester tractor today on a walk in Yeadon (UK) less than 3 miles from where it was built, at Five Lane Ends, Bradford. It was on a lorry with an equally shiny David Brown tractor, almost certainly from Meltham (UK).
The site that used to be the eddystone rifle plant making the Enfield 1917 rifles and P-1914 is a Walmart outside of Chester PA.
In the Philippines, a company called Floro International now only deals in Document Management (think copiers and micographics). But once upon a time they manufactured M14 mag conversions for Garands, SMGs, and even Claymores among other defense products.
A steel company in my hometown that specializes in doors and frames made tank armor during ww2. I worked there shortly and got to use some of the machines used to do so almost 70 years later.
Hughes Tool made Howitzer shells during WWII. They typically made oil field drilling bits.
As an aside; Our local National Guard armories still have M1s, M1919s, M3s, and M1911s still in their inventory. A friend of mine is a Sgt. in the guard and he says that this stuff never gets sent out. Nobody from the Guard or the Army has ever decided what to do with them so they sit in the arms rooms, meticulously accounted for mind you, but never issued or used. They also still retain stockpiles of ammunition for them. Camp Perry sits about twenty miles from where I sit. While we don't have the capacity for manufacturing we have tons and tons of small arms sitting in warehouses to fight for the next twenty years.
An example of an opposite case is Schneider, formerly manufacturing primarily arms (as far as I am aware, they specialised in artillery) and now they make stuff from pens to industrial equipment, electrical infrastructure and data centers.
My grandfather, Mom's dad, was a rifle barrel inspector at US Switch and Signal during WW II.
Really cool topic I thought a lot about it because of Armstrade Tycoon: Tanks which got me into looking up where Tank companys came from. There I noticed it was almost always some big machinery plant before which really shows in early tank designs.
The earliest tank builder was Fosters of Lincoln, in the UK. They were tractor and agricultural machinery makers.
As I recall Singer Sewing Machine Company wartime 1911s are hands down the most valuable as they made the fewest of them. Also, the question could also be answered with Glock. The Glock 17 was Gaston Glock's 17th patent, his previous 16 had nothing to do with guns. Most of them were camera equipment.
Singer was awarded one of the Educational Orders Ian mentioned. They tooled up and made 500 pistols right before the US entered the war. The government offered to extend Singer's contract to make 1911s, but instead they elected to accept a different contract for artillery fire control directors. The tooling Singer made was then transferred to Remington Rand.
Not a “Forgotten Weapon” but Zenith used to make television and radio equipment now they make a perfected MP5 clone that I would love to get my hands on.
...I'm 72 and remember well Zenith TVs.. and radios..
Wait is it the same Zenith??
I'm 28 and we had a Zenith TV when I was a kid. Didn't make the connection until now.
Pretty sure those are different companies.
@@hakimcameldriver There is still a Zenith making electronics, but they're not the original company that was based in Benton Harbor, MI. My first IBM compatible computer was a Heath-Zenith, I actually still have the monitor... They sold that business to the French company System Bull back in the 90's. Apparently, a new company has bought the name and is making 'smart' doorbells and other household electronics.
Had a opportunity to
Buy another 1903A3 a year ago at CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park. Was only browsing but then they had 4 bolt rifles (rest were M1 Garands). When I found the 03A3 manufactured by “Smith Corona” 8/43 , snapped that baby up. 🤗
I work for the Automotive part of TRW (or the company that bought TRW), that is really cool!
And Winchester was a shirt manufacturer, Singer sewing machines Co. made the finest 1911 pistols; and International Harvester making the most sought-after M-1 Garands!
Very good question Brian. Thanks
BSA, Norton, Sunbeam, Massy Ferguson, Wiltshire knives, etc were very diversified companies in both World Wars based in Britain.
We had AC Spark Plug M2HB .50 machine guns when i was in the seabees. They were in the process of phasing them out to the FN M2A1
@5:20 i have to think (idk) that moving some production to middle usa also helps a lot with shipping, storage of item. Both with costs and time to get item to middle, western depots & service members
Interesting... something else I didn't know. I hadnt understood the full scope of the original Springfield armory's work. Thanks Ian.
God bless all here.
Great question.
Phenomenal reply.
This is one of my favorite videos of fw. This is cool.
Regarding TRW:
An aerospace company, started from scratch.
They designed and built their own tooling in house. Winchester and Harrington & Richardson rehashed old M-1 plant.
TRW M-14s are NICE, out of the box. Bear in mind, however, that over the decades, pretty much all of the 'dodgy" components were weeded out, so, examples of all makers that survive today are probably more than adequate, be they "all matching" (bizarre concept for mass-produced, sub-contractor-supplied manufacturers) or total "Mix-Masters. M-1 Carbine buffs note: This especially applies to your favourite toys. An "all-matching" Carbine is probably totally bogus. Parts were parts and they were shuffled about between manufacturers so that the flow of finished product would not be impeded.
This is a really interesting episode! I really enjoyed it!👍👌
That was a great explanation of something I thought I understood better than I did. Thanks Ian!
With modern defense production efforts, there are commercial companies that likely have most or all the tools required to fill any needs for a massive war. Every company making an AR-10 variant could tool up the moment the patent opened up and contracts were signed.
On the Liberty ship SS Jeremiah O'Brien, the forward 3" gun was made by General Motors Fisher Body division.
The British toymaking company Lines Brothers (Tri-Ang toys) not only made a ton of Sten guns in ww2, the ultra simple mk iii was largely their design, so these things can work out very well
Ian, that’s a GIANT leap of foreshadowing to think IHC needed to be brought on board for nuclear bomb avoidance!
TRW = Thompson Ramo Woodridge. The last names of the three guys that originally founded the company. They went by that name for quite a few years until they retired and the new management shortened the name to TRW.
TRW started out in electronics, but pretty quickly got into military contracts, and that is the major source of their current income.
A piano factory in my home town made the stocks for IH Garands and many of the GM Inland M1 Carbines.
I've always wanted an example of each with an Overton made stock.
Another example of this is the fact that Wurlitzer (the juke box company) was in the business of manufacturing VT radar fuzes for ordnance during and after WWII.