Harley Cylinders Bore and Hone HOW BIG?? - The Archives - Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Performance
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- čas přidán 15. 01. 2022
- Watch how to Bore and Hone Harley Cylinders. How Big can you bore harley cylinder? Twin Cam 107 Harley Big Bore kit.
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/ @kevinbaxter
Pro Twin Performance and Baxter's Garage
723 W Winder Industrial Pkwy
Winder, GA 30680
(678) 226-9651 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This is exactly why skilled labor should pay and pay well. Very few folks with advanced degrees could do that work. People also always piss and moan about shop labor rates. Look at the cost of the tooling in your shop and it should tell everyone why shop labor rates are so high. Folks, if you find a shop that is top notch then support it or it will be gone. The tooling in Kevin’s shop is just one part of his overhead. There are fixed costs to a business that state the owner in the face every day. You have to turn out do much work each day/week/month/quarter etc before you are in the black. Each day is a new day and when you unlock the doors you are immediately in the red on that day. Great video Kevin as always. 👍🇺🇸
100% on target sir. Thanks for a great comment. It only starts at the cost of a machine. Often tooling can exceed that cost...some bought, some had to be made. Then there's setting fixtures for the tooling and standards to calibrate the fixtures. All required for precision...and all stupid expensive.
My deepest respects Mr. Baxter. That is not only very skilled work, but its a whole lot of it. LOL. thanks for taking us with you to work again. BRAVO!!!
You are very welcome thank you sir!!
I am no machinest by any means. I do understand that you use gauges ind micrometers but after everyy pass do you check the stones for wear. That has always been my thought around machining!
Honing has evolved since that 389 Pontiac that I was taught how to remove the glazing from, engine in, metal case drill, rock hone, after hand ridge reaming, in the driveway...
Really cool to see professional work done meticulously. I'm glad to know old school values still prevail!
Watching you work is like watching Allen Millyard work.
Love it. Admire it. And feel totally amazed and confused.
Respect!
Thank you sir. I have watched Allen's videos too. Very skilled craftsman for sure.
Refreshing to see the great relationship you have with your employees, Kevin. Thanks for everything!
Thanks for watching! I have the best employees, customers, and online family in the world bud.
yes it sure is, the video was relaxing to see, but the interaction with his employee gave me the warm fuzzy feeling that happens in the presence of greatness !
Ultimate Professional. Period. Definitely Different from 45 years ago boring & sleeving automotive engine blocks at your Mom & Pop's parts house/shop... Love your work. Love your videos. Thank You!
thank you sir!
Really enjoying your videos! Just something I learned in life, great employers, most often surround themselves with great people, and great people want to produce for great employers. Much respect to you and your organization!
Thank you so much Eddie...i really appreciate that. I always say I work for them....they dont work for me.
Very true Indeed ! having worked for larger companys , where I was just a number, to working for smaller company's where I saw how vital it was to produce great work always, and appreciated better, it was at smaller company yrs ago I learned how to talk to employees better and also customers, really felt great knowing I well earned my pay and was a asset to the company or later on to the employees and customers when I owned a trucking company
Very interesting to me! being a machinist of 30 years I’ve used many manual and cnc machines over the years and worked at a dozen or so different shops. I’ve not been around automotive specific machinery so it’s interesting when I see the videos showing them in use. I admire the precision holding tolerance to the tenth on the machines your using. We do it on todays cnc machines but it’s easy to adjust comp or offsets a tenth. It’s definitely a process being able measure in tenths making sure everything is clean and set properly and temperature stabilized. I have a Hammer 1275 kit in an 03. I picked it due to the fact they use a high grade material for the liner to avoid cracking. I plan do more big bore kits and will likely go same route of buying cylinders with materials designed to function at a specific bore and thickness. I appreciate your knowledge and skill, and your ability to entertain all in one.
I like the fact that you are showing us what it takes to get the professional results that we want making it easier to justify the expense of doing it right vs. having it done by someone without the tools and/or the knowledge.
Amazing stuff. I sure miss the shop atmosphere.
Checking the chips. Yes sir! Adding that to the education arsenal! You can always tell a mechanic from a machinist. I didn’t like to say for a long time, however, it’s the truth. There are exceptions, but they are few. I am not a mechanic. Why? Cause I’m way to slow and “worried” about tolerances. Thank you again for this channel. Never stop. When that day comes, you will be missed.
I like the lines of the Pan in the background.
That is a very rare Motorshop single loop frame from the late 60s. Less than 100 were made. I did a video on it quite a while back called Stiffy the Bobber. Thanks!
Great informative video Kevin. I was never "bored" with it.
Awesome, thank you! LOL
Thanks Kevin, This helps us cycle guys learn more about the internal nity grity that it takes and such precision that we often take for granted, and help us understand why shop time costs what it does with it being labor time and machine time something we can't rush thru, and thanks for pointing out any weak points , I love very much watching motorcycle engine building lately, I think I missed my calling career wise, this would have suited me perfectly, especially working for a family run shop, where employees tend to get better treatment n respect for going out of their way to help make clients happy and the business a success !
Thanks AGAIN for another very informative video, well done sir.
That's really intense work.
these guys are the best in the business,very nice people also,cant wait to hear my EVO after the mad doctor[kevin] casts his spell upon it ,great video brother
It would be a privilege to have you work on my motor. Worth every cent.👍👌🍻🇦🇺
Thanks Mick. Cheers to my mates in OZ. Hope you are enjoying your summer.
Great machine shop. I had never thought about compressing cylinders whilst boring and honing, makes sense though.
Thank you. This is critical anytime a cylinder has thru studs...like VW engines. Elite auto shops will use them too when boring V8s. Not many do and necessity is debated...but it doesn't hurt.
Love the attention to detail. respect
Thanks for the video.
Awesome work Mr. Baxter!
Sure would like to have a conversation with you on plans for my upgrade.
Thanks for all of your informative videos and precision work!
Just love the precision.
Superb information as usual - thank you, sir! What is your take on the brand-new S&S 129/132 cylinders (for 107/114 M8's) with 4.32" bores? It seems as though S&S has taken the thin spigot thing even further than Harley did on their own 128/131. Unless there is funny math involved, which I doubt, these new (S&S) offerings take things even further as far as challenging fate, so to speak, in regards to longevity, notwithstanding the supposed super-duper-mondo-beyondo metallurgy involved that will save the day. Very interested in you views on that subject.
From southern California ~ Ride Forever!
Thanks Kevin great to see more content
Thank you Rod!
Great workmanship!
Thanks for sharing Kelven
youre welcome. thanks darrell.
Your videos are the best. Thank you
So nice of you thank you Sandy.
Have to say another great video, you and Pacific Mike are only video s I watch.great work.
Thanks Hank! Pacific Mike has some great stuff. I like watching him too...his voice relaxes me. Lol.
Very informative
Glad it was helpful! thank you
great job sir
Thank you Eddie. Hope you are well sir.
I got a CV-616 myself - love that machine!
Oh nice! Did you hear that Sunnen got out of the cutting biz completely? all they do now is honing equipment. NO more valve seat machines, etc. Crazy. That 616 is a nice unit sir.
@@KevinBaxter I got a VGS 20 too! Any parts on these machines has to be sourced from old equipment traders. When I call Sunnen for parts, I cross my fingers that they still have something in stock - just so you know, last year I bought one of three oil pumps they had left on the shelve. After the other two are gone, that's it.
could you make a video of just a tour of your shop and all the amazing tools and machines?
Awesome stuff KEVIN i did the 20,000 mile service on my street glide m 8 107 stock motor. and noticed at the oil filler cap the bottom of the threads there is a rough casting. and i wiped around that area and picked up some aluminum flakes. have you seen this iam sure you have alot of motors apart to check that out.i know you are super busy maybe you can get back to me Thanks.
i have but i cant really associate that directly with an issue. all the best.
Love from DeKalb Mississippi USA 🇺🇸
Home of the bloody 43rd
I like to see he’s videos , and my respects too to him , I wish find some like him for engines bmw boxer because it’s what I owns any way I enjoy see his videos
Kevin, have you checked where the cylinder is bolted to the case that the case is 90 degrees to the conecting rod. I have seen some cases that are cut on an angle, which puts the piston in a bind, excessive wear and heat. Keep up the good info.
yes. this is wise to do. we check on every one we build and have seen not just cases, but cylinders too are not always square. great comment sir thanks.
great video Kevin on these s&s 4.250 cylinders for m8's wonder how far
they are taking them out.luv them ck10's you got
Some are taking them further than I am and care to. I dont really wanna go past 4.25. As you can probably see, i've rebuild all my equipment. That sucker will hold a .0001 if patient and flooding with honing oil. i also have dual electric fans on the cooling unit in the back and a dual filtration system with particulate trays under the cylinders as well. its a great unit.
I like to do my final hone without stabilizers and using 820 stones - can't beat that finish for molies.
mine will vary depending on ring pack and required RA/RMS finish. most i'll do with a 280. may also finish with a 600 or finer for plateau finish
@@KevinBaxter I only do automotive stuff, and I have plateau honing brushes with my machine that I've never used. We haven't built a hypereutectic aluminum engine block in my shop since the Vega days.
Was wondering how you check surface finish parameters such as Ra, Rp, Rv, Rq, Rv, etc.? I was a Manufacturing Engineer at 3 major engine producing plants including Harley Davidson. As piston rings became more sophisticated so did honing requirements. Often these days plateau honing is required which is a 2 step process.
Great question sir! With a profilometer. As im sure you know, different ring alloys, coatings, etc may require different finishes. I also use it anytime a specific finish is recommended as with MLS head gaskets, etc.
Love your videos. But you need to invest in a HQ cam.. ;)
👌
You used the term "Plateau honing" is that the same as cross latching on the old iron cylinders that I'm familiar with?
The goal with honing is to size proper while maintaining a cross hatch as determined by the piston ring manufacturer. The plateau process uses very fine brushes, 600 to 800 grit to flatten the microfine peaks of the cross hatch and clean the valleys. This helps the engine break in far quicker.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks for clearing up my confusion. I was always told that cast pistons were a good choice if you didn't plan on running the motor higher than 5500 rpm for any sustained time and never did use cast pistons even though I always shifted before getting to 6000 when I was using up my excess testosterone and screwing around with friends. I was wondering what your feelings are on these newer bikes you work on as far as pistons, and if there is a need for a larger bore with cast pistons over forged considering the cylinders use liners?
Kevin I have a question, are you able to get thicker spigots and bore the cases instead of the cylinder! I'm asking if I had a square crank and timkin bearings in the bottom from my 96 ci. What would be the end results, 103, 107 or something different? I'm hard pressed to figure those things out bore and stroke stuff combination? I also have a CVO 110 an it's all the stuffing I require. It's a 2011 an the 96 is a 2008 both touring models.
I just came across this video today. Hope you see it. Mitch.
kev on a 103 borded out to a 107 running cp corrillo bullet pistons what piston to wall clearance do you recomend mate
Great video. Just wondering what temperature it is to need those fans?
being im going thru my archives of unreleased videos, this being last summer. It was 96 deg in the shop and 90% humidity. hot day. LOL
👍🏻
At what point would you say it’s best to plug and weld the crank pin? Obviously many factors involved. My bike is an 02 dyna low rider. Not a stunt bike or a race bike. It doesn’t live at high rpm or on the limiter. Just a street bike. But I don’t baby it. “Stage 1” at the moment but I plan on building a stout 95” with some head work (nothing crazy) and a set of fueling 525 or andrews 21 cams. Compression ideally in the 9.6-9.8:1 range. No more than 10. And if I had to guess with a thunder header and big sucker probably 95-105 hp/tq. Just wondering it would be worth it to have the pin plugged and welded or if it that’s no where near the kind of stress that plugging and welding protects against. Thanks for any info. Love the content.
Can you bore tc 4.060 barrels out to 4.125 any info would be greatly appreciated.
Somehow I would rather go to smaller bore than bigger, to increase the stroke vs bore ratio. As a Shoverhead guy, the modern Harleys are too high revving for me...
in many instances i agree.
Should ring gap be determined with torque plates installed on cylinders?
That is an extra step to ensure best precision although not entirely necessary. Gap is checked typically about 1 inch from top of cyl. At that depth, cylinder shape really doesn't change when in or out of plates...mainly below, center and bottom.
KEVIN, I HAVE TURNED SEVERAL OF MY BUDDIES ON TO YOUR CHANNEL, GREAT VIDEOS! QUESTION: IS IT OK TO SLIDE A CAM IN A 2017 ROAD GLIDE SPECIAL WITH 88K MILES?
sure...but check to make sure the rest of the engine is healthy. leakdown, cyl pressure, etc. and upgrade the inner cam bearing, check lifter bores, etc.
Always bore off the base as your reference. The cylinder's deck is not always parallel to the base.
It’s not worth the chance to assume that it’s the same.
Boring a cylinder crooked will lead to ring seal and wear problems.
This applies to virtually every cylinder that you’d bolt to a crankcase.
Also, I’ll add that your cylinders will bore much better with the spigot close to the boring head, not extended to the bottom of the stroke.
Flip those cylinders when you bore em.
agreed completely. and rarely are they square. we always check for square and machine top and bottom square to bore before we bore/hone if needed. if new cylinders, from some manufacturers, they have to get baked and squared up as well.
thanks for the suggestion.
What’s your opinion on 95” vs 98” cylinders?
I have successfully bored stock cylinders to 3.937 for 15 years. I can't recall a single issue. They just have to be perfect. 95 is a bit more rugged...spigots are thicker. 3.875 bore to 3.938. That's .0315 per side. 3 cubic inches only provides a very small power increase. Just my .02.
Sooo… what’s the answer? How big? I have 4.125 that I want to redo this winter
I've got a 08 softail 96" twin cam.. I've already got my cams bought but am thinking about putting bigger jugs , having heads done etc. Is it better for me to buy new cylinders rather than having mine bored??
boring, done well, is perfectly fine.
@@KevinBaxter appreciate your response
🤔Would you bore out a 114 cylinders if so, 🧐 how much bigger would you go..?
im hesitant to do so. there was a design change on M8 cylinders. i wouldn't an early set...17 to early 18.
I surely hope that you have a few young apprentices
Dry boring? No oiler?
No...not necessary.
KEVIN, have to ask better to buy new cylinders ( S+S ,STD,etc) or bore originals.... My Evo 80 "is in need and I want to get more out of my TC 96 " always heard spigot dangers....
no issues with boring your stock cyls provided its done proper. VERY VERY rare i have had issues with boring stock TC cyls.
I prefer my chips with dip. 🍟
Very skilled work but it would be easier using the metric system. Just saying...
i wont argue there. 3.937 is 100mm bore ;)
Can I ship my cylinders to you to get bored if so I need your address thank you Brian Lester from Johnstown pa.
Clearly you have read the manual on this machine
I lost count of how many cylinders ive bored on that machine and the hone LOL.
Torque plates are a waste. I've seen junk HD cylinders that were professionally bored and honed and STILL wore goofy. You can’t simulate the heat and expansion of the cylinders so why bother...
Wondering why you bore cylinders straight ,on aircraft cylinders the combustion chamber end of the cylinder is smaller to compensate for the expansion caused by the higher temperature .
That is not cheap to have done.that equipment is expensive wow.!!!!.