Blade Vortex of the Scythe - What happened here? | Path of Exile: Affliction
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- The initial reveal of the Blade Vortex of the Scythe transfigured gem had me interested - the duration and cast speed made it seem like scaling these stats would allow multiple active blades. However, with the new gem being bugged at launch, many who decided to start by trying it out were forced to move onto something else before too long. Three weeks into Affliction, a large patch including many bug fixes was released, and in this patch, Blade Vortex of the Scythe received two bug fixes, one of which specified the maximum blade limit of 1. Is this a miscommunication on GGG's end? Or is the gem just very weak?
Reddit thread with testing: / blade_vortex_of_scythe...
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#pathofexile #poe #affliction
0:00 Introduction
1:47 Bugged at league launch
2:41 Bug fixes
3:25 Gem comparison
5:55 BV Scythe scaling vs other options
6:44 Mana cost & uptime
7:15 Closing thoughts - Hry
![[PoE 3.19] #1 532M DPS Blade Vortex Occultist - How to Scale BV Damage](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KjVbMnQAmWA/mqdefault.jpg)
I hope GGG reconsiders the blade limit on this gem - it would be a fun way to approach scaling with the inherently low duration and high cast time if it had no blade limit!
You just double CoC it with ngamahu axe and skill is gigabusted.
In ijjmj(j99
@@HaPKoMaTo3 The skill is 'gigabusted' hitting 1.67 times per second?
@@dreamcore_gg if GGG remove blade limit*
100% this is the only way the numbers make sense on it imo, it's certainly how I initially understood it - making it more inline with how og blade vortex felt (each blade having its own hit rate)
i tried to league start with it, and initial wording of the skill - create SWARM of blades and panned for BB of unloading - imagine my reaction when i discovered that "SWARM" means 1 and has only 1 blade limit
Yeah I can imagine, that sucks
We need a sandbag hit calculator in POE.
I hate relying on POB for calculating my DPS.
Surely they will add a target dummy in an upcoming supporter pack or mystery box
@@dreamcore_gg do you think they will release true numbers?
There was a WoW mod (parrot?) which showed damage numbers but there were some who doubted them- compared to their spreadsheets. The numbers on their spreadsheet showed what damage should be. They predicted how combat would go and what round the monster would die.
The spreadsheet predicted the final round correctly, but looking at the film, the actual damages were an array. This suggested that the s in dps had to be one of many that gets averaged.
I don't think the target dummy will work because players won't see those numbers in game and demand more transparency. GGG would have to make a language pass and reveal a lot of behind the curtain shenanigans.
And anyways, find a build that works great and enjoy it for half a league before they nerf it (and ret-con your items/trees/gems)!
@@lenandov I don't think they'll officially release numbers, we have to rely on poe.db for a lot of stuff, and we know from testing that even some of that is incorrect
especially when it's wrong for like three years, i.e. scourge arrow
I was thinking about vulnerability being "nerfed" (i.e. it actually never had an effect it said it had, and they just removed the line when doing a sweep accross curses) @@ntma
I guess you could trigger it in a COC setup if you do the lower duration than cast speed shenanigans... It should just not have a duration though if they wanted it to work this way. It would kinda be a phys Nova skill
I'd recommend giving ball lightning of orbiting a try for anyone who was interested in blade vortex of the scythe. If you stack enough area all the balls hit a target at the center. Feels like somewhere between discharge and blade vortex. Don't need to worry about scaling duration or number of projectiles. I used slower projectiles initially, but once you get enough area, you can replace with a better damage gem.
Both of the ball lightning transfigures are awesome! They both appeal to different builds/scaling 👍
What's the scaling target?
hey mate did you play bloo? any pobbin?
this with no blade cap in a CoC setup would have been insane. No idea what the current skill is meant for though
I really thought the idea of this gem was maximizing spins. It starts with 1, and every time you add a new rotation, you get more damage. If you cast fast enough to get up more than 1, it stacks, but with 0.8 duration you probably expect like 3 max stacks. 3 hits at a time because you cast fast enough and it lasts like 2 seconds, that sounds like it should be okay. Unfortunately, it doesn't work anyone near that well.
When I first see it, I already thaught it's gonna work this way with only 1 bv that hit hard and quite like nova spell. It's quite interesting to play with but I don't like the cast time and damage seem not enough.
since it already has a base cast time higher than duration, I could see some caster build where you only focus on flat and % damage added and forgo any cast speed and ailments. maybe even go crit. not sure how good that would be
It reminds me of the old alternate quality BV that does more damage when under a certain number of stacks.
I can see a use for it in high budget builds when you have more than enough damage and would instead like to take the pressure off sustaining stacks and get more AOE.
I'd be interested in seeing the DPS comparison when the effectiveness of added damage was considered. How quickly before the more modifier on BV overtakes BVotS then
It would be approximately the same - added damage effectiveness on skills are based around base damage/mechanics of a skill, to provide a somewhat similar contribution of damage across all skills. BVoS has high effectiveness because it has higher base damage and lost the scaling per blade.
Fe. with 100 added damage, normal BV will gain 30 damage, BVoS will gain 160 damage.
Normal BV 4 blades without added damage = 1685 dps, with added damage = 1972 dps
BVoS at 0.6 hit rate = 1504 dps, with added damage = 1770 dps
Normal BV 1685 > 1972 = 17% increase
BVoS 1504 > 1770 = 17.6% increase
Damage effectiveness is a horrible metric and I hate that it is prominent in discussions. What actually matters would be something like "added damage needed to double base" or some value that's base damage divided by damage effectiveness. Which is incredibly close for those two skills.
in theory its can be "fine" in some cwdt build may be? or something like double arcanist brand with bv instead on unfleash,so we have more then 1 source of bv .
Thanks for validating my thoughts on the whole 2.5 hits with the cast speed scaling, thought thats how it felt. I have been trying it with totems as thats the only way i thought it would be viable, and sadly its as disappointing as it looks.
That's unfortuante to hear, the totem setup was the only thing I considered as a decent use case for it but the numbers still looked poor
@@dreamcore_gg for a spell that has a cast time of 0.8, even if you get two hits per cast by carefully calibrating cast speed, the damage effectiveness is only 320%. Spell totems have such a poor damage multiplier, a skill must have some truly spectacular synergies to be useable.
I think it would be better if the blade unit could hit a single enemy multiple times so long as the enemy was touching it. So instead of each fast moving blade hitting once like in BV, there's a big and slow blade capable of continuously hitting for its short duration.
You didn't talk about the Added damage effectiveness though. (would that make a huge difference, probably not though)
The added damage effectiveness is usually somewhat comparable with base damage of a skill and its mechanics. If the skill could have more than 1 blade, it might be too much, but as it is right now, the base damage and damage effectiveness would need to be at least 50% higher to be competitive with other options. For comparison with normal BV, the added damage effectiveness of 30% is scaled from the base damage, and the mechanics of the skill having multiple possible blades which also scale into more damage and a higher hit rate.
Added damage effectiveness can *basically* be thought of the same way as base damage. The ratio of the two things is pretty consistent across spells.
This means that adding ~500 flat damage to spells from your gear roughly doubles the damage of a level 20 gem, no matter which spell gem.
Idk how u thought its multiple blades. From reading it as u introduced it to me in the video I thought its a 1 blade version. Ur dps comparison makes it similar to 3-4 blades of regular bv which makes sense cuz ur not spamming it to get the stacks as a trade off
I`m still loking the way to scale as much duration as pissible and trigger it every few seconds on automaticaly to have some kind of physical rf. Realistically I can stack 2 sec at most.
All this math without factoring in a 35-40% more damage from replacing unleash (which is still worse because it has a blade limit of 1, but at a blade limit of 2 it's arguably a little bit better and at 3 it outclasses normal bv by quite a bit)
I figured it would be something good with CoC/CwC since it's an instant full stack swing, I ironically have no currency to make many more test beds for characters.. and I burned out on the first month, tried to gather the will to make and test more to prep for the gauntlet and lost the will to play anymore again, before it ends I will try my "frost flicker strike" idea though, intuitive link with dancing dervishes and the new frostblink...
It might work if you could invest into scaling the duration low enough so that you just keep proccing the initial hit damage over and over, otherwise each trigger would just refresh the duration and it would only deal a hit of damage every 0.6 seconds
@@dreamcore_gg not even considering lowering the CD, just a constant easy to keep up attack, a cyclone in a cyclone sort of thing, not every ability needs to be the meta king... I wonder if you can use it with the other BV's...
Why not totems? If the skill hits everytime you cast it, then everytime the totem cast it, should hit, right? (sorry if I misunderstood that part) and if we used totems, then would be more scythes at the same time, overlapping in bosses
Bv dont work like that. When casted, it gives YOU buff "blade vortex", so any interaction with totems or arcanist brand is dead. Even more, less modifier on arcanist brand superior hard(no "more" when attached). And for brand recall there is insane armageddon brand of recalling.
@@Kardeelldoes it work as a buff? Can I manipulate expiration rate to make bv longer?
I find that this would be good if it was instant cast with a cd equal to duration so we can just put it on left click and move around.
Honestly, when you first presented the gem i immediately thought that you could only have one blade, "creates a swarm of blades" + 4x dmg + reduced duration gave that away. if it had longer duration it could be good but its just too short and clunky
have you ever played last epoch? your videos are always so in depth in POE but LE has a refreshing new canvas to cover certain mechanics and while it doesn't seem that great or deep now it's only 1.0 poe in 1.0 was probably really bad compared to LE 1.0 idk just a thought to maybe compare some of the differences between some choices like LE has no accuracy rating or no real differences in DOT ailments meaning all of them are pretty much good and everything tries to be viable skill tree path if you are stacking things together. anyways I just love the amount of information accuracy and effort you add into these videos.
Hello, I am currently running this in my Scion. So far my build has consisted of the following:
20% Quality Gem - .8 second duratoin
2x Timeclasp Rings - 40% inc duration - 1.12 second duration
Duration Passives on tree - 95% duration - 1.86 duration
Inc Duration Gem - 60% duration (this is just an average, it can go afew % higher) - 2.34 duration
10% more duration from tree ~ 2.5 second duration
The gem states it hits every .6 seconds, so any duratino over increments of .6 gives another hit. At this point you are hitting 5 times per cast>
This is nice because I cast one blade vortex and then have another gem setup to cast another spell of choice, I am using EK because I am using stuff like hatred and herald of ash to scale phys as elemental.
That is why I like this gem, because I am doing a lot of damage with BVotS while also hitting with another skill. I am thinking of how to work RF in, so I am now hitting with 3 different portions of damage at a time
I wonder if you could just invest in way less duration modifiers and just go with a normal BV unleash setup in this case, all that duration could be invested into damage/aoe, then you still have your ring slots too
@@dreamcore_gg no idea, I just tried this version out, it's the idea I had 😃
What bugs me about Blade Vortex of the Scythe is, that you can't link it to Mine or Trap Supports. This being bad on regular BV because Mines can't cast more than once per Mine so no stack potential was something that made me never even try it. But for BVoS it seemed like a good idea since the single Blade Limit would not matter due to them being cast from different entities (mines/traps). But it refuses to support it. Despite it not being stated anywhere.
Hopefully this is just a leftover 'bug' from normal BV and if they keep 1 max blade, it will be useable with traps/mines next league
it probably wasnt intended as main skill, rather as "cast when taken" skill and alike.. the duration is rough, one way or the other..
no idea, maybe its simply a stepchild skill 🤷♂
Would it be worth using if it had like a 15sec duration? Still a limit of 1 or 2?
It would be a great skill if it had a long duration like that, probably a bit too powerful then tbh because you'd just make use of it even as a secondary passive damage link on phys spell builds
Fair enough.@@dreamcore_gg
It's rather baffling but I don't think a large amount of thought and experimentation has necessarily gone into a lot of these transfigured gems. I have an old bane occultus build and I was curious to see if the transfigured version of that Gem Might breathe new life into it. As far as I can tell it's singular purpose is to potentially make it stronger for bosses, But it's truly tiny aoe makes it feel so bad to use that I just didn't bother. I almost feel like they need to combine both gems into one such that if you hit a rare or unique then it's aoe shrinks but it's damage increases. As it stands it almost feels like you would have to do a gem swap which is an immediate turn off for me.
You might be right, it just seemed to me that the gem design was based on scaling duration/cast speed and I was quite surprised when the limit of 1 was noted in the patch
@@dreamcore_gg I mean it can work the other way as well For example penance brand of dissipation. I just think due to time constraints that they don't necessarily properly run the numbers on these things.. I agree that in your particular example the limit of one seems to contradict the original design concept which is very odd.
@@bendybruce Yeah penance brand is completely ridiculous at the other end of the scale though, and was similarly broken at launch(but at least very playable) and when they cleaned it up it actually ended up dealing even more damage with the keystone. Enjoy it though, it's probably gone next league
Blade Blast of Dagger Detonation is also suffering from the same issue. It is straight up worse than the normal and the transfigured version of the gem and it does not even modify the skill's behaviour.
With 25% duration reduction and 10% less duration mastery on passive near scion, a lv21 20% quality less duration support, and perhaps a swift affliction support, the duration can be as short as 0.132 seconds, i.e., 4 server ticks. So it's definitely possible to trigger it with CoC/CwC/brand, or even in the popular CwS setup for MF chieftain. However, the opportunity cost is huge, considering there are other skills to use without worrying about the duration. On the other hand, if we self-cast, given its awful base cast time, it can be easier to ignore the cast speed and just scale its ignite damage. However, in this case, it is still far worse than meta like EK ignite. The only way I can think of bypassing all the difficulty is to use spell totems and make them hit-based, dealing damage every 0.6 seconds per totem, and let them stack impale with spell crit with the help of Entropic Devastation. The 6% base crit may not be high enough to be worth the investment, but it is the only thing I can think of that could be decent.
Why do you think reducing duration will help?
Coc and reduced skill effect duration...?
This is one of those things where ggg wants to present an alternative way to scale something and the short of it is "nah dude that just doesnt scale"
Kind of disappointing considering how good some of the other new gems are, like the new slams that scale with endurance charges or the new arc that scales with chain.
It would be a lot of fun to build around if it had no maximum blade limit and you can just go all in on skill effect duration/cast speed
@@dreamcore_gg For sure, although if they do buff it I don't see them letting it have more blades than base BV, that doesn't seem what they're trying to do with it. We can dream I guess, uncapped BV with the corpse pact tech would be absolutely bonkers
I tried it with cold, was horrid. Indeed they fixed it to thr ground. Many new gems are in this state
Single big hits deal larger ailments (other than poison). That's the only upside I can see. You will get a much larger ignite with Scythe(902 base dmg) compared to normal (790 @ 10 blades). That's 14% more ignite damage, and possibly even allowing you to get 50% shocks with a certain build setup. If you assume 1/10th of the ailment, then a shock on normal BV would only be around 5%. With both ailments, that would equate to 63% more damage with the Scythe version. This also means that a Secret's of Suffering version will be able to reach max alternate ailments much easier.
I think this is it. It hits slower and harder, and it does not have a ramp-up time to get non-pitiful DPS. It also has 160% added damage effectiveness vs 30%, so if you have multiple sources of flat added damage, those will stack MUCH better than on baseline BV. Convert the damage to an element and inflict decent ailments with it (or pick bleed/poison ailment and it works without conversion).
Terrible idea at all, just use old good(abit nerfed) wave of conviction...
Ignite can be a good option if you can fit it`s duration in 0.6 sec.
902 base damage is EXTREMELY low for an ignite, like fireball is 2000 base damage and that's on the low end of ignite skill gems. As for non damaging ailments, it's not difficult to hit the ailment cap if you are trying to scale it, and you typically use those ailments for dps (shock brittle scorched etc) so if a skill has bad dps to begin with, adding in a 50% shock isn't going to fix that. That's still less dps than a fireball.
@@MyNameIsSalo Physical damage is always lower because of non-chaos as extra chaos. Scythe BV Ignite Elementalist would be extremely strong and fast.
i feel like this gem was supposed to be for bv totems. 40% less cast speed is overcome by scaling duration instead, blade limit 1 overcome by having 3-6 totems... but a few seconds on a calculator and it's clear that even if you wanted to play bv totems, original bv is better
I hope they remove the limit, I really want to play this
It would be nice if you at least showed what the skill looked like to be honest. The numbers breakdown is good but seeing the difference between the transfigured version versus the original is always good
Will do that next time! Thanks
I keep thinking about how it could be used in its present state, but then I always go back to ethereal knives of the massacre, and think why would anyone ever use this new BV variant. Very strange. Arcanist brand setup perhaps?
The best use I thought of really is to keep duration at 0.6(no quality), and get cast speed down to 0.61 or close enough(possible trigger setup like arc brand yes), this way you'd get near enough 2 hits every 0.61 seconds. However, I don't think it would ever be worth it over just using a different ability
idk why but it seems that everyone ignores that we got the good old discharge back.. pls remind the community so i can copy paste a coc build and have fun, thanks
BV of the scythe isn't limited in how you can use it though.
Your traps aren't you, so I suppose a test might be interesting linking it to traps or spell totems, or perhaps mines (for single huge detonation) which should each create a blade.
Aaaand that's a fail and a half, apparently, while it doesn't say that anywhere, blade vortex of the scythe can't be supported by traps.
Guess a lot of stuff slipped through the cracks with that gem and its description.
Yeah, it seems like it SHOULD work with traps/mines but doesn't right now unfortunately
Great vid but it would be alot better if you actually included some footage of the skills you're talking about ;-)
True! Next time..
I mean just look at the base level penance brand change. It’s got insane #’s but that’s about it. Everything else was stripped
as lab runner now I understand why no one buy my 24x blade vortex scythe,oh well I guess I just reroll it on next batch run
They should Rename it to "Blade Vortex of the Trolling"
Great analysis. Does the 5x damage effectiveness help at all?
Just running the numbers, barely.
Although if youre looking to play a physical spell with aoe bladefall with spell cascade actually gets the most benefit out of damage effectiveness/added damage.
I would've assumed its just 1 blade, didn't see it as unlimited blades.
Still kinda useful via coc/cwc i guess if you scale the duration down to the proccrate... but even then there are other options
TL:DR not all transfigured gems are in a good state.
I thought maybe a cast on crit or a poet's wand
It's like they condensed all the bad parts of Bladevortex into a new gem...
Just gonna say specters are still bugged in hideout I’ve lost a few of the more rare specters.
I lost one this league too, in SSF, was very unfortunate
Pay almost twice more in mana to be able to do a third of the damage and have to cast all the time... Serious fuck up
the effectiveness of added damage is more than five times higher on the transfigured version. that's probably the most significant reason that I can see.
It actually works out as less because it doesn't have the more damage per blade more multiplier
You can't compare 160% with 35%. In reality all that added damage gets amplified by the number of blades aswell as bv hitrate. Take having 100 physical damage added to the spell:
Bv of the scythe has 160/0.6=270 total dps added
Normal bv has 35*3.5/(0.6/5)=1020 total dps added at 10 stacks
Or 35*2.8/(0.6/4.2)=686 added dps at 8 stacks(which i'd argue is more than fair)
Aoe is irrelevant unless it can replace phys explo, which is possible if you don't mind running maps with negative clearspeed
For the record I agree that it's not worth using, I was just pointing out something that wasn't mentioned in the video.
Hmm would it work with mines?
Last time I checked it didn't work with mines or traps
@@dreamcore_gg thanks
@@dreamcore_ggSorry for tagging😅
Do you know by chance how it interacts with triggerbots from saboteur?
Since the casts happens twice, does the first trigger deal damage or does it instantly disappear before it even has a chance to do damage?
@@theinfernity1799 I haven't tested it with triggerbots but the assumption for me would be that one of the casts will proc the initial hit and the other will just refresh duration. Subsquent triggers while duration is still active would just keep refreshing it
I've really enjoyed some of the new gems but overall it's felt pretty bad. A few skills still have bugs that make them just not work, there's a few direct downgrades, and losing alt quality/enchants really hurt with some skills. Biggest L for me was losing alt quality minion speed which means there's no source for non-golem minion cooldown in the game at all anymore.
the single spike earthshatter would be great if the spike did not spawn 100m away from you, almost outside of warcries to pop it. The skill would be infinitely more usable if the spike spawned right in front of you.
I think this is one of the things that's a bit of a shame with a few of the transfigured gems just feeling like either purely upside/stronger versions of the original, or purely weaker to the point you would either always use them, or not even consider them. I really enjoy the transfigured gems that shake things up completely, stuff like falling zombies etc.
for using this better just use Reap and cast it on top of yourself tbh
Not wrong 🤣
It's an utility skill. CWDT most likely. I had no misunderstanding from initial description.
What build uses this for utility(to proc on hit effects) that wouldn't use normal BV?
If only they give it "Instant" cast, if only...
That would actually made it semi useable at least for speed clear - but this way, its just trash.....
Just give it 2 sec duration, 0.5 cast time and let people cook.
Remove blade limit and make it work with spell Cascade.
That gem + awakened spell Cascade could then clear screen😅
But but you don't need unleash so you can have 1 more supp like 35% more dmg. Still bad though :P
The unleash socket probably needs to be some duration, or you're investing way more into duratin on the tree to solve it
much higher effectiveness of added damage tho, which might be what its based around
There's another comment thread about this, but the short answer is no. The ratio of damage effectiveness to base damage is what matters and that is very consistent across pretty much all spell gems.
Adding ~500 flat damage to spells on your gear etc will roughly double the DPS of a level 20 skill gem, no matter which spell you're talking about.
The added damage effectiveness is just scaled from base damage and skill mechanics though, since the skill has lost the more dmg/inc hit rate per blade and has higher base damage, it's had its added damage effectiveness scaled to that
Oh i didnt know thats how that worked, thanks
afaik is this transfigured gem thing is for using it in a niche way, so i would think about what this is all about! my initial thoughts on this are: this is meant to be played as a CWC or COC with Cyclone and reduced CD + red. skill effect duration (and the str support gem that works well with all lightning dmg to push the max dmg of the skill and reduces the min dmg in%, if im correct. forgot the gem name) scince the minimal dmg is really low! maybe use it with Cospri's and Hrimsorrow (not socketed inside Cospri's). maybe ill give this build a try one day
These sorts of issues have made me soft quit the game unfortunately. As someone who really appreciates good balance (as good balance = genuine options = player expression and freedom). So many numbers jsut don't add up. For example EA does over 10x the base ignite of fireball, by default, as base numbers. Thats just too high a magnitude of discrepancy. Then being gaslit by GGG/etc saying - ah the numbers are good, players just need to solve them? Its a shame the skill design is so bold and innovative, and I love it otherwise. Its really just a numbers thing. And the playerbase has been trained playing DD/TR/seismic/TS to appreciate those outliers as skillful choices and normal numbers, whereas its more a question of picknig the right skill in the right patch.
What it does is shift the balance responsibilities to the player... You want to have a good time? Pick one of the strong skills. You want to play something else? You messed up, youre an idiot, of course we don't balance that skill/archetype, why would you think that? When playing one of these builds, you don't think - how can I improve my character? You think why is this skill tuned this way, how is it still like this? why should I keep trying when they gutted it in expedition needlessly, and now its 2024 and still garbage
Then things like 0.8s cast time, on top of the other issues. It feels absolutely awful to play like that. And they double down on limitting stun mitigation options, and making it more mandatory. And i do a fraction of the damage, can't offscreen and a host of other issues - while being more vulnerable to freeze/stun and selfcast issues. And mana cost! fun
F
effect of additive damage 160% instead of 30 is a joke?
The added damage effectiveness is usually somewhat comparable with base damage of a skill and its mechanics. If the skill could have more than 1 blade, it might be too much, but as it is right now, the base damage and damage effectiveness would need to be at least 50% higher to be competitive with other options. For comparison with normal BV, the added damage effectiveness of 30% is scaled from the base damage, and the mechanics of the skill having multiple possible blades which also scale into more damage and a higher hit rate.
1) Bad skills need to exist for others to be good.
2) GGG sometimes put stuff in the game with no idea how it might be useful. That stuff forms an ever-expanding toolbox of things that might become useful in very specific circumstances. Circumstances that might not even be able to occur right now.
You really just going to skip of "effectiveness of added damage".. it is dramatically different..
That's not how added damage effectiveness works - it's scaled with base damage of an ability and the mechanics of that ability, to provide a somewhat even contribution to skill damage across all skills. This skill has higher base damage and lost the damage multiplier/hit rate per blade, so damage effectiveness was scaled accordingly.
@@dreamcore_gg hmmm ok I’ll totally own it if I’m wrong about this, but I though effectiveness of added damage had something to do with how much additional damage you’ll get from let’s say “added flat damage” or increased damage supports or points in the tree, ect
@@Mink0twink It does yes, that's correct, but the percentage of added damage effectiveness on an ability is not a random number, it is scaled and balanced based on the ability damage and mechanics.
Fe. with 100 added damage, normal BV will gain 30 damage, BVoS will gain 160 damage.
Normal BV 4 blades without added damage = 1685 dps, with added damage = 1972 dps
BVoS at 0.6 hit rate = 1504 dps, with added damage = 1770 dps
Normal BV 1685 > 1972 = 17% increase
BVoS 1504 > 1770 = 17.6% increase
@@dreamcore_gghmmm I’m getting the impression there is probably a use case if you don’t need to how many blades you have up. I’m not as familiar with BV but perhaps this allows you to run an additional “more damage” gem on BVoS in place of a functional support gem needed for standard BV.. I’m fishing, but that’s where my mind goes.. or maybe it has better function with brands, totems, ect
They should include the name of the designer of the skill. That should make someone responsible. The lack of accountability shows a lack of commitment.
I am almost sure the poe1 balance team has 0 members in it. They just asign "balance task" for 5 mandays to 1 dev each season. This is not the only example of an ability with so bad scaling, that it might as well not be in the game. Other examples - tectonic slam, glacial cascade, volcanic fissure and most likely many more absolutely dead gems.
They said out loud where people could hear that only two devs worked on Ancestor league. so I do not doubt you.
they basically murdered this game for POE 2. It makes me really bitter. We (players) increased numbers league after league making them more and more money, only to be abandoned.
it is super sad to see literally 0 balance changes for the core gems/archetypes. The only "balance changes" we see are through new and new busted unique items, which feels lame, because many people play just their league start characters. League starters seem to hardly change at all. Slams playstyle have been ruined for years. Strikes have just boneshatter/molten strike/lightning strike, where boneshatter is the only one I would league start. I cant speak much about spells/mines/minions, because I do not like the playstyles, but I expect it is almost the same case.
before ppl say - but we got trans penance brand, storm brand, arc. Those have absolutely overblown scaling, compared to the other stuff, that was meta prior this patch. I will be mad, if nerf hammer does not fall on these gems alongside with DD.
@@Scroapythere's 0 chance to they don't nerf penance brand of dissipation, same as chain dd they are just too broken than any other skill.
all transfigured gem suck, a lot of them are just counterpart of element, but somehow transfigured version has worse attack/cast speed as well as lower effectiveness.
So new ggg's system create some broken gems like pb, fragmentation, all others meh at best. And absolutely destroyed alt quality support gems, weakened normal active qualities, atk spd trauma, smite etc. Oh, like any ggg,s "reworks", "reintroductions"and "syatems".
Most of the new gems are complete trash. Other few are extremely OP. That's what was expected from announce - GGG just took balance that was fine-tuned in last couple of years and threw it out of the window. Only thing I'm wanna say about it - "Told ya!"
No you are wrong. The damage isn't the issue here. You are comparing 10 blades from normal blade vortex to the skills but you forget to mention that to get consistent 10 blades you have to use unleash as a link which has 40% less damage multiplier on it and you lose the opportunity cost of using another damage buffing support instead. Assuming the gem you sacrifice would give you a 40% more damage you end up with normal blade vortex dealing 0.6 of the damage you showed and the new one dealing 1.4 of the damage you showed. Which means that the damage of the new skills is slightly better than a normal blade vortex setup. The duration is the bigger issue for me here that certainly needs a buff. The cast speed is also fine since with normal blade vortex you will need 2 casts to reach 10 stacks which means you take longer , again assuming you get the scythe one to a decent duration. The big AoE is really nice if only it lasted longer though.
Now we come to comparing it to other skills. Blade vortex in any form is not a very high damaging skill compared to other skills even the normal one . The damage is nerfed to compensate for the passive damage you can deal while moving instead of sitting in one place casting. That is the reason people like this skill. They invest a lot in it to get it to a good damage number then go around killing enemies while walking which is very nice for mapping. The damage was never the point of this skill. This video really left me wondering if you have played blade vortex before or understand the skill at all.
The less damage multiplier on unleash doesn't apply to blade vortex. The gem slot using unleash would be substitued for something providing improved cast speed or skill effect duration on BV of the scythe(faster casting or inc duration) to allow you to keep damage uptime while moving, and if you use this support socket for damage, you'd be investing points on the tree or modifiers on gear to solve the problem instead(which could have also just improved damage on a normal BV setup).
I question if you understand the skill actually, considering that you believe that unleash imposes 40% less damage on blade vortex.
@@dreamcore_gg Ok i checked and it turns out that unleash doesn't affect it . but you are still representing the skill in a bad light. i already addressed the cast speed issue. you need to cast the normal one twice to get 10 blades . that means more cast time on the normal one. and you wouldn't use the support for cast time lol. So yes the gem needs a duration buff mainly and it can use a bit more damage. if they do this. the skill becomes better than the normal one which is probably why they are not doing it so maybe just the duration buff
@@quantumdot7393 5 blades on normal blade vortex already deals more damage than bv scythe. For those 0.5s spent casting, you have uptime of 4s. For the 0.8s casting bv scythe, you have uptime of 0.8s(of which the final 0.2s are wasted). How is this video representing the skill in a bad light if you're literally suggesting a duration buff and now a damage buff as well?
@@dreamcore_gg i looked more into it. The new one is quarter of the damage of 10 blades on the old one like you showed . i already said it needs a duration buff and i also said it needs a damage buff but you still manage to make it look worse by overlooking the support gem wasted on unleash. it is worse than the normal one but not by as much as you show . I don't disagree with the conclusion. I disagree with calculating a skill that needs a support gem against a gem that doesn't that is flawed. It ends up being worse still but that doesn't mean your video is the correct way of looking at it. Unleash is the only reason the normal one is better you can't compare base damage to base damage only.
@@quantumdot7393 sir, put down the crack pipe. You seem to not grasp anything about the skill or the video.
lul grinding gear is a rimworld colony running the 'blindsight' meme. anything requiring skill is botched, they can't see what they're typing, invisibility is casted two weeks after every league launch, and they'll airdrop simps to back them up if you're trying to attack them
Most of the skills are "meh" at best in PoE. So why not make another meh skill.
But this one is awful... Non-transfigured not only stronger, but better in utility, requires less casting, and deals quadruple damage.