Karlov Manor Precons: Worst to Best
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2024
- It's the complete precon review for Karlov Manor: EVERYTHING you need to know about these four Commander precons is in this video!
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absolutely crazy reprints in some of these, especially in the dimir one. thanks for justifying my preorder gamers
im about to pre order and i wanted to watch a couple more videos lol
It's so funny to me that winning the game through combat is just not a reasonable strategy according to Beezy 😂
Craterhoof is his favorite card.
Too deep into cedh at this point 😂
Triumph of the Horde gives him nightmares
As much as I love NN, they do usually write off combat based strategies way too easily. In most playgroups, especially at your LGS, combat is one of the most common ways to win imo
To be fair, power creep through price point accessibility has pushed many combat strategies off the table. It doesn't help that combat focused commanders are often hated off the table immediately (Kaalia and Winota come to mind)
Despite its initial power level, Deadly Disguise has some solid reprints and gives a great base to start building around Yarus, who seems like a much more interesting face-down focused commander to me. Only ~15 cards from the precon have white in them (excluding lands) so it's easy enough to make the switch by adding in sac outlets/payoffs and some additional haste synergies.
Que big bad Morphy boys
Im definitely buying it for $40 it's worth.
The stand out deck for morph/face down creatures style commanders. I love it. I plan to break it apart instead of play it as it is
Another thing you could use Redemption Arc for is give your own creature indestructible with it, which can be great in a voltron deck for more durability.
I can see Take the Bait being used to help someone finish off another player, since they don't have to swing anything in your direction to trigger it. You could also use it to force an opponent to attack with all their creatures, leaving them wise open for you or another player to attack them. If one opponent is left, it's basically an expensive fog in boros. I think the card has a lot of hidden versatility, even when you're winning the game.
Something you guys completely missed in the blame game precon is the card Hot Pursuit, while it doesn’t do much with its first part, it’s the second part that makes it worth it, especially in the late game when players start getting knocked out of the game, being able to mob rule/ alpha brawl your opponents cards is awesome and helps cover goads main weakness: it’s useless after a couple players are gone.
Got a deep clue sea today. Very cool deck, can’t wait to play it!
I got a Deep clue sea locked in at $45, I'm so excited for it
A little hot take from me: Taunt from the Rampart is the best Boros Spell. It does everything and hits all the time in a combat based meta and even if not. You can cast it if you have creatures and run into your opponents stuff. Your opponents are goint to hit each other for a whole turn cycle which easily deals 20+ damage total because they cant block. And after that all of their good creatures are tapped. Also a reason why The One Ring is so good you basically phase out for a turn combat damage wise. Its okay in the early game but only gets better the later you cast it.
23:20 I want that dog commander. That is why the bant commander is so popular
CAN I PET DAT DAWG
Scooby Doo in the command zone? Say less
I kinda wanna slot The Old One into Revenant Recon since it's gonna be super easy to trip tue Descend 8 on it
Keep in mind with all the reprints and general new card pace…most of the financial „value“ will be lost in the next 1-2 years…
with unexplained absence you forget the option to get rid of some token for a random card of your own. probably wanna play sensei's divining top or other ways to know your top deck anyway.
That Naya deck might be annoying but you know it comes with the tokens that helps you tell what's what
I'm going to pick up the Dimir deck to try it out. I imagine the Brainstorm and Marvo are decent ways to cheat the big cards you draw so you aren't committed to only paying full price for them. FoF definitely finding a spot in there though. Great breakdown!
preordered all of them yesterday for 150 bucks plus shipping 😁
How did you get them down to $ 150 ? everywhere I see that has them as preorder is $180?
Just grabbed at my lgs for 140 tax included today. Definitely worth it for that price.
@@zeddestroyer I’m not going step on thier toes but you can
I got them all 4 for 140 euro (150 bucks) in belgium
I think it's great that WotC started adding expensive reprints to new commander decks. The issue is however that there are still too many commander products released which sucks.
You don't have to buy anything from the new set, so all it does is drive down prices because of reprints. That's just good.
No inspiring statuary for clue deck? I swear that card is so slept on
Amazed they didn't mention it here. Adrix and Nev even comes packaged with Deep Clue Sea, which is why they only mentioned Mondrak and Annointed Procession. I really like it and I'm excited to pick up my box, though if it's as much as this video says then that is not at all in my budget. $45 was already pushing my initial $40 budget before seeing what was in it, so hopefully my LGS doesn't charge more than that.
@@boppertron4929 Hate to be a dick but it's in the precon...and the guy literally in the same comment chain said it's in the precon as well.
@@gothix114 I see now I phrased very vaguely, I meant I was amazed the video didn't mention it was in the precon, trying to reply to the earlier comment, but I forgot to indicate my reply
My favorite card to reanimated is sepechlurial primordial you get a card with intimidate, as well as the best card in each opponent’s graveyard.
I wish it was mentioned that the "Deadly Disguise" deck only has 4 disguise cards; its a morph deck, not disguise
Can't wait to use boltbender to redirect 10 copies of comet storm on the stack back at my opponents.
On The Trail seems pretty decent in an Omnath Locus of Creation deck. Getting a free landfall trigger off of the Omnath etb seems pretty good.
I looked at and did some gold fishing of the decks on Moxfield.
The disguise deck is definitely the odd one out. Despite being different colors, it felt extremely similar to my Kadena deck. That said, while Kadena saves you mana and gives you cards up front this commander requires you to flip while attacking(and unblocked) for that value, and I'd rather cheat mana costs via flash than untap effects. I'd go for it if you missed the 2019 morph deck and want it, but tbh the bear looks more fun.
Next, while listed at the top I found the dimir deck to be fairly clunky. You really need surveil and reanimation targets together, not always a given, and apart from feeling sneaky with evoke creatures I kinda felt like I'd rather play Meren. Finality counters are also a bummer, and while it helps balance the commander it makes recursive pieces less interesting.
The Boros goad deck is my personal favorite, mostly because I like goad. It seemed easy to trigger, and not hard to just ride a game out with. I feel like you'd have an easy time getting to second place, but then I'm concerned how well you could make first.
Initially the least interesting but probably most powerful, the clue deck plays super well. It seems humble, but you quickly get a beefy commander, significant board presence, and stocked hand before you know it. It also seemed the most consistent, as any synergy pieces allow you to pop off.
I agree the clue deck is the best despite the commander being boring
The dimir deck is way less clunky and a lot more optimized by removing/replacing some of the big creatures that don’t belong there, and upgrading the mana base/adding in some extra/better counter spells and removal. It also needs lifelink because it has none.
Also make sure to add some tutors like entomb and buried alive etc to instantly get shit you want into the grave. The finality counters are easily removed with blinking so cards like conjurers closet etc. There’s also plenty of cards that remove or move finality counters off you and put them on your opponents like soul diviner, fain the broker etc.
When built properly and with a solid upgrade, the dimir deck is a beast. Surveil and reanimation go together perfectly and the synergy is great without being clunky at all. There’s a lot of really cheap and fast ways to surveil/get shit until the graveyard.
So just upgrade the mana base, add more/cheaper counter spells and better removal, some tutors, ways to get life back with cards like whip of erebos and blood artist, a few ways to remove finality counters, and swap some of the clunky creatures with better ones and the deck is perfect.
It’s the strongest out of all 4 of the decks when upgraded and highly consistent. By turn 3-4 you can have your commander be at 6/6 or higher easily and already be reanimating bigass creatures for free. Surveiling multiple times each turn makes him huge very fast.
Also the good thing about the flip commander is he can literally cheat out huge creatures super easy. A lot of the big flip creatures have a normal flip cost of 4-7. He can flip any card for free just by tapping. That alone makes him amazing for a flip deck. Just pay the small cost to put them face down, then you don’t even have to worry about paying the flip cost.
@@hatchell18 it definitely is , I was skeptical but it’s strong and good . I probably won’t upgrade it (mostly just because I have other interests at the moment), but really all it needs is better reamiantion targets …the current ones are kinda mid but outclass other precons .., some blink stuff would be good too
@@hatchell18 I think if customizing the Dimir has the most potential, but that's mainly because reanimation has the most support. Disguise can dip into morph but there's not a lot else not already in the precon, Suspect is exclusive to the new set so you're limited to just more goading, and I feel that while the clue deck may be the best out of the box it doesn't have much else to go except for adding more value pieces.
blue black vamps are my fav flavor rn. super smart spell casting immortal blood suckers? yes pls
I appreciate the both of you sharing which Commander decks you think are the best. I am not a fan of some of the mechanics though. I use Seedborn Muse in my Elf deck as well. I don't like the morph mechanic and solved and unsolved ones. There are just too many now. I also do not like the Clue theme which has nothing to do with the Magic lore. Wow..... the Revenant Recon is a really good deck and there are some great reprints in it too. My Toxrill deck will stop my friend's Edgar Markov deck. I pre-ordered all 4 of these decks. Thank you Mia and Beezy for the video.
I'm trying to build a Boros Angel and Goad focused deck... Is the Blame Game a good deck to start building on top of?
Seems like the whole point of the deck is exactly what you’re looking for. It has a lot of good goad cards already in it, you’d probably just need to add some protection especially from board wipes so someone doesn’t just reset the board
Impression was awesome Beezy
deadly disguise actually won the 1v1v1v1 against the other precons
I’m super excited for Deep Clue Sea. A couple of cards that weren’t mentioned in the upgrades:
Rise and Shine - turn all your clues into 4/4’s
Cyberdrive Awakener - Turn all your clues into flying 4/4’s
I kinda want to go to my LGS just to play a Nelly Borca deck.
I want to start making random accusations of opponent’s creatures and acting like a crazy conspiracy theorist. Maybe show up with a tinfoil hat and “suspect” everyone.
“Hey man…. Your colossal dread maw man… it knows what I’m talking about! People! With their eyes open! THEY know man! Ohhhhh,… that dread maw…. Man, if you knew the truth about what it did… but that’s why they don’t tell you about it… the dreadmaw is in cahoots with the krenko over there now too man!…. And I pass the turn…”
You've gotta show up with your among us merch and call everyone sus. That is the gamer way.
29:32 counter point I added free from the reel and smothering tite for a combo 🤔
I want to get the Dimir deck and throw in Isochron Scepter and Fate Transfer to repeatedly move the finality counters onto enemy creatures
Leech Bonder + Paradise Mantle also works
Land called Nesting Grounds I think can move counters. Then you have Goldberry from LoTR
@@taylorjohnson5148 Goldberry can only move them to your own creatures tho
yeah still a good way to get them off creatures you dont want getting exiled@@FightinTheGorlax
Doom Whisperer in the Dimir deck would be so good
im putting "On the Trail" in my Aesi deck where the value goes crazy
I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect in these precons between the fantastic spell reprints and the utterly garbage land bases, especially compared to what Universes Beyond decks have been getting. Aside from the ubiquitous Temple of the False God, I'd also yell at Wizards to stop reprinting the reveal lands from Shadows over Innistrad/Strixhaven, as well as the two-basics-typed lands from Battle for Zendikar and the bi-cycling lands from Amonkhet (or at least finally print the enemy-color versions of those). I don't expect to see shocks or fetches in here, but come on, you could have done Midnight Hunt/Crimson Vow slow lands or the OG pain lands.
That said, I ordered both Revenant Recon and Deep Clue Sea - the former because it's a fantastic starting point for a reanimator deck (an archetype I haven't really got among my decks yet) and the latter because by sheer coincidence I just rewired the Blast from the Past precon from Doctor Who into a Clues deck and it'll give me a few new things to try out with that one. Side note: that deck as I play it now is the only one of my green decks where I do play signets and talismans rather than land-based ramp because it synergizes better with the historic theme of the deck. You're completely correct that outside of niche cases like that, signets/talismans don't go in green decks (yet another thing to yell at Wizards to stop reprinting into precons, I guess).
Went with naya for myself and the bant one for my girl look like decent precons
I'm not sold on deadly disguise being the worst, of all the games I've seen so far it's always done incredibly well.
Most of the morph cards aren't great but they're going to cost you 3 mana at most and there's so many cards in there that put them only the battlefield face down completely free, that just ends up flooding the battlefield with 2/2s with the possibility to be huge when flipped.
Of course morph is an awful ability, but that's because it usually ends up with you paying way too much for a creature but when you're paying 3 for an akroma face down and only have to tap your commander to flip it it's insane, not only that but once you do flip it you're getting card draw on a commander that costs 2 mana.
You keep mentioning how expensive morph costs are but the whole point of the commander is to get around it completely free.
I'm not sure how ugin helps either, you have to get to 6 mana to cast him and then he's reducing morphs by 2, which means you'd have to cast three morph spells from your hand face down to even make up your investment, but still just means you've slowed yourself down, I doubt you'll be playing that many considering how many cards just put other cards onto the battlefield face down.
Oh and the nelly borca precon has always been the best/second best alongside kaust whenever I've seen them played too...
I feel like im getting overwhelmed with sets and precons. I bought these 4 but just for the reprint value. I feel like im still finding stuff from the dr. who and lord of the rings sets to upgrade decks with.
I would never recommend paying more than $45 for any of these decks. There are definitely tons of stores who won't hike their prices.
Yeah, in the UK I paid £40 and was confused when they mentioned the price considering it's usually the same price in dollars (which makes magic a whole lot cheaper in the US but that's a separate point), who's paying £180 for all of these?
@35:34 search for azcanta was just in your commander underperformers video, now it’s a budget add? Doesn’t seem consistent to me. Either it’s a good budget card to add, or it’s an underperformer that you should take out from your deck
Building on a budget changes the context for what cards you include. Search has played worse than I expected generally, but if you’re gonna be surveilling constantly, and you don’t want to shell out more than like $5 for a card, it could be perfectly fine
Tesak reads like Teh'sack
On Russian (Ravnica was based on Slavic culture) it means "knife for cutting fascines". Like machetes but they were created for soldiers needs at first.
No Ugins mastery upgrade for deadly disguise?
I'll have to disagree. Deadly disguise is the bestest. ONLY because of big bear mama. Really hope there will be more bear tribal support in the future
i dislike that they made disguise the way they did. as now you can't bluff between old or new face down cards. cloak is fine, as it could be a morph disguise or nonmorph anyway. i just think they could have made it more retroactive for manifest
Yeah they should have just done a rules update for morph with the ward 2. They really are overcomplicating things.
Especially since they do actually change how Suspend works in this set. Where you will now be able to not cast it instead of having to cast it when youbremove the last counter.
If they can change that which was printed as recently as the doctor who decks with the old ruling. They could have absolutely done this for morps.
How is a new player supposed to play with these😂
Someone help me Should I get deep clue sea or explorers of the deep
I noticed that you are tossing consider from corner to corner on the screen every time any of you say consider , nice little pun 😉 😉😉
I’m not sure if this is the case for all of the precons, but for the bant one, some of the prices you gave for reprint value seemed too low (based on what I’m seeing now). You said $9 for Bennie (TCGplayer low is ~$16), $10 for Koma ($14 TCGplayer low), $13 for Adrix and Nev ($17 TCGplayer low), $6 for Farewell ($8+ TCGplayer low). I might be missing something.
We're using the price they're pre-ordering for on CardKingdom!
@@akira-qr4qm what's wrong?
@@akira-qr4qmhow can they be wrong when you can literally order them on cardkingdom for that price?
Gonna get Deep Clue Sea, take out a handful of cards for other decks, then swap Sophia to the commander
The bear commander from the Naya pre-con is infinitely more fun and exciting than the face commander, imo.
I'm not going to say what someone can find fun, but I do have to say I'm genuinely confused as to how something that just buffs creatures is fun.
What about 500 year diary for deep clue sea?
Idk if it’s just me, but these precons are kinda boring lol
That’s exactly what I thought.
They are lame overall
Ransom note says, “Money me now.”
CK is selling these for $189.99 now
who?
@@RETROducto3 Card Kingdom. The said Card Kingdom was selling the precons as a bundle for $180. They are listed for $189.99 on Card Kingdom as of them posting it. I was just letting people know CK they increased the price again.
Take the Bait's usage is Niche? My friends in Urza, 75% of the game is not on your turn and every one of those turns is gonna have a combat.
I just liked they reprinted Alandra, it was printed only once and was expensive only cause of it.
I'm getting the deep clue sea deck and slotting in the stranger things cast except for the mind flayer
I hate to tell you this, but you can't.
@joewhite4456 why not?
@@litkingbee7476 because most of them are the wrong colours
@joewhite4456 oh, sorry i am using will and eleven as partners forever for the commander's
@@litkingbee7476 then you'd have to take a lot of the deck out as there's a lot of green cards it here.
OMG
i can buy the 4 for 150 euros !
:O
is it good ???
I’m just not about this set at all, I feel like it’s so convoluted 😭 I will be saving all of my dollars for the Western set, love me a good western 😂 some good cards in MKM though
same not huge on the flavor and not really huge on any of the mechanics either
Same. I will probably buy a single or two from this set, but I have yet to actually look at it. It just feels like a boring theme
I was about to skip these decks until I saw that the Bant deck had some pricey blue cards I wanted anyway. Figured I'd get a ScoobyDoo deck out of it (sophia) 😂
@@thesamuraiman hey I totally get that, some of these decks have awesome reprints! Wizards seems to be doing something right 😂
What happens when a werewolf gets put into play face down? Is it transformed or somehow a magical 3 sided card?
Well, all cards need to be sleeved in tournament play, so that's taken into consideration when card mechanics are thought up. So a "transform" card that gets put into play face down will not be transformed. It'll literally be placed into play face down... physically... transforming or flipping a card are a different mechanic involving showing the backside of the card as its new front (aka active) side.
Also, Double-Faced cards can’t be turned face down. They can enter the battlefield face-down via Cloak or Manifest, but they’re immune to Ixidron. If that makes sense.
I'm so glad I asked, this is actually fascinating!
I see face down decks more focused on small creatures with sweet effects, most of the strong creatures doesn't do anything useful anyway.
I never found any of these interesting personally. I've a bit of a reanimator addiction, but Dimir?? idk.
No way dude said 'Toe-ski'
21:37
I miss Cherries :(
Id watch an entire video of amber getting attention
It seems kinda stupid for the opponent to send even one creature at you if you tell them you have "take the bait" because that's just wasted damage. Nowhere in the card does it say you actually have to be attacked.
Literally came here to post exactly this lol. While i agree that this definitely is not the most powerful card you could be running, i do think it's a super fun card.
I will however admit, i do really love these type of "uno reverse" and love slotting them into decks over cards that are objectively more powerful. I really do think take the bait is better than other similar cards. The problem with this type of card usually is that if the right opportunity never presents itself, it feels bad holding up 4 mana turn after turn. However i feel like take the bait is way more versatile than it first appears... obviously the best case scenario is fogging an alpha strike and sending it elsewhere. But i can think a a few more ways it may be useful... an opponent is swinging at you because another opponent would kill too many of their creatures due to having good blocks... it's down to 1v1 and a bunch of small tokens are coming your way (block and kill as many as possible and then block and kill the rest on the second swing)... or even what beezy said about revealing that you have it and making a deal.
@@mikej8694 Just remember that creatures will still take damage. It's only fog for the controller and his/her Planeswalkers.
I’m guessing the moxfield ad is at 21:30
So close
@@NitpickingNerds there’s always next time.
If i wanted to play facedown cards id play yugioh... so i got the Dimir surveil deck
I don't think simic signet is that bad because the deck has cards that care about artifact count
The problem with Revant Recon is that reanimation targets aren’t that great , I get that Toxrill and Void Winower aren’t going to be a Precon .. I think the deck is dog shit (good reprint vaule though)
Why so much hate against deadly disguise?
I was the 1,000th like, happy birthday
Why on earth is Morska not a Merfolk?
Bro you forgot Marvo with Clash it's too broken, that's the only reason I bought the deck
What makes the deadly disguise deck good is the Mother of All Bears - which any cloaked cards count for as bears with Ward 2
Reprints be hitting good with these
TRUTH
Mana base?
Amber les go!
00:44 - 00:46 ...?
In WHATNOT stream giveaway ... can they SEND TO EUROPE ???
(if i ever win, 99% i wont :C i can pay for the mail) haha
Morph happens off the stack and cant be responded to, obviously you gave never played against a morph lock deck.
The dimir deck is the only one I bought, seemed like the best deck over all not just a bad deck with good cards in it, but something that has a game plan and a way to close out the same.
Morph is my least favourite mechanic.. by a long shot! Does anyone actually enjoy this style of play?
I was very excited for more Morph support. Not a lot of good cards to pick from. Though I’m sort of used to it at this point
Unfortunately it's far and few between in terms of heavy hitting carrying type cards so it is interesting to see more support.
Man, that new Feather is really 💩… Zada seems better than that.
These precons are all kinda wack but the reprints are nice.
This set mostly sucks pretty bad.
I must be bad at magic , another list that has Mirko ranked 1. He looks total dog shit to me .
First, let’s go
Nope
Almost!
R.i.p
Sleeping on Whispering snitch
Writing “purr” as a pronoun for your cat is insulting to us who have real trouble finding appropriate pronoun representation