Why the WWII B-29 Bomber's Gun System was so Combat Effective
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- The intent of this video is to discuss the effectiveness of the B-29 bomber’s Integrated, computerized gun system. The B-29s ended WWII with a gunner air-to-air kill ratio higher than the P-51 mustangs. Topics include: Gun/turret, type of ammo carried, sighting stations, air-to-air kill ratio and Japanese pilot experience influence.
- Věda a technologie
B-29 Bomber Bombardier/Gunner Video:
czcams.com/video/ltPYQfF2Oac/video.html
B-29 5 Fascinating facts Video:
czcams.com/video/ZuroPXzrUDg/video.html
B-29 Bomber’s Tail Gunner Station Video:
czcams.com/video/ltPYQfF2Oac/video.html
B-17 vs. B-29 WWII Gunner Kill Ratios Video:
czcams.com/video/jSwB1Mxaung/video.html
B-29 Tail Gunner’s Radar Video:
czcams.com/video/l-39wbSe_0k/video.html
I did not know that one gunner on a B29 could remote control three turrets, that is incredible. That they had this technology in WW2 is amazing.
the gun system was effective in WW2 but by the time Korea happened, the computer wasnt able to deal with the Mig-15 jets, about 120 mph ahead of the fastest prop-driven fighters, and the 29 was pulled from daylight missions.. i read this on wikipedia.
But was the gun computer system installed in WW2 upgraded 5 years later when the KW broke out?\
Got to love the 'Government Font' of the drawings, in and in many field manuals 7:32
That was news to me as well.
The machining that went into that analog computer. I'm a machinist and we're some of the most annoying, arrogant, finicky people. Obsession and perfectionism built that computer. Those engineers and machinists were amazingly intelligent.
Right! I just love analog computers. They're endlessly fascinating, with all their gears and levers, knobs and dials. Some very deep thinking and understanding of math went into them.
This WW2 tech can’t be duplicated today.
I'm a machinist too... guilty as charged.
It's closer to a mechanised series of log tables, not a computer.
I'm not a machinist, but I dabble in it as a hobby, as well as some other allied occupations. I think people used to be a lot smarter than they are now, based in part on the subject of this video.
I bet these guys felt like they were flying a spaceship.
Imagine a side gunner from a B-17 getting reassigned to this, with heating and fire-control and everything.
Robert Morgan the pilot of the Memphis Belle flew B29s against Japan after completing his time in Europe.
Oh, no doubt! That was work of art was the closest thing to a spaceship as you could get back then. (Other than actual spaceships)
I feel like I’m flying a spaceship 🚀 when I drive my Jeep®! 😃
@Graf von Losinj - I Post Info you
@@alitlweird ddrsdxxcccccccccfffffdddddddddde
And after a long day of shooting down the bad guys, he could rest in one of four bunks.
Outstanding presentation. My father was a waist gunner in a B-24 in the 8th AF. After his thirty missions, one Me410 and a DFC, he rotated home and taught gunnery at Wendover. His orders came through to a new B-29 group then working up in early summer '45. You can imagine his dismay. Because of his seniority and rank (Staff Sergeant), he was to be assigned as a Fire Control Officer. Thankfully for my folks and me, the Little Boy and Fat Man finally convinced Japan to surrender. I was born almost exactly nine months after the end of the war.
So you were the very first "Baby Boomer"!
Your parents smashed to celebrate the end of the war
@@ct8764 Yup. June '46. A bit of math and it's easy to see my folks waited until VJ day to party hard. 😉
@@lwilde SMART no Widows ..ALOHA
My dad trained in B-17 and was switched to B-29, but the Bombs happened before going over. I don't complain as I got to be here.
This is absolutely fascinating. I knew the B-29 had a computerized gun system, but I had no idea it was so sophisticated. In fact, it's a quantum leap from anything of it's day if I'm not much mistaken. In fact, it may be one of the very first integrated weapons "systems" as we know them today.
well, I did not and this video has given me one of those lovely, 'holy crap .. I did not know this!' moments..
@@johnhuston3082 Those exact words echoed in my head as I watched as well lol.
Now I need a video explaining whether or not the bomb targeting systems on wartime bombers were actually effective or not. There seems to be some controversy on that.
@@denniseldridge2936 Short answer - the US Norden bomb sights would have been fairly effective on a level bombing run at high altitude in clear weather with low winds and no flak. In actual combat over Europe it fell to ~30% of bombs falling within 1000 feet of a target. Japan was even worse due to cloud cover and the jet stream (which was practically unknown prior to WW2). The futility of these early B-29 missions made Curtis LeMay develop the tactic of low altitude incendiary night bombing.
I think Submarines would be the first. They didn't have the same weight limitations as an airplane. So it was easier installing a computer on them.
@@jackgee3200 Outstanding analysis and very informative. Thanks!
My dad was a CFC gunner on 35 missions to Japan. He never talked about his experiences before he passed away. He died at a rather young age, and I was, after his death, able to talk to two of his crew, one was the flight engineer that told my son and I about the one confirmed kill my dad had of a George, and the other one was the tail gunner who is still alive and 96 years old. I had a phone conversation with him and his son and I'm making arrangements to visit them soon!
son and me
@@cheapgeek62 Thanks for correcting my poor English. I guess it made you happy. I don't recognize your name as any of my English teachers over the years.🙃
@@codecage9333 Son and I is correct according to my college writing classes. Not sure what the other guy is talking about?
@@Roybwatchin definitely son and I. The other dude is a clown
@@LSchronic89 Incorrect. Would you say "John told I" or "John told me"? The latter is correct.
My late father was a "command gunner" on B-29s, transitioning from B-24s. He tried to explain the B-29 weapons control system, but I had a hard time visualizing it. Thanks to this excellent video, I know understand what my dad had to become skilled at doing, as well as the challenge of training new gunners in his squadron. I appreciate your approach to explaining this system!
Dad arrived late in the war and flew 8 combat missions. He said that by that time the Japanese fighters would not enter a B-29 formation under any circumstances. They would zoom around out of range hunting for any stragglers. On mission days the crew, less the AC and co-pilot, spent their time linking up .50 caliber ammunition all of which was removed by the armorers after the mission.
Well done! The bit about the deletion of tracer was interesting. P-51 pilots that took the trouble to master the K-14 lead computing gunsight also would tend to delete their tracer, which provided a huge tactical advantage when an enemy fighter couldn't tell it was being shot at until hits were being scored. That's why you sometimes see tracer in gun camera footage, and sometimes not. The circle of dots in the sight reticle is made from two plates with curving radial slots, creating a circle of diamond shaped holes where the slots intersect. When you move the range setting, it rotates the plates relative to each other, moving the intersection holes toward or away from the center.
Thanks for the explanation of the circle of dots. I wondered why it was made of dots instead of a solid circle, but now it makes perfect sense. Actually, it's a pretty elegant solution.
Tracers also had different ballistics, resulting in different trajectories, which in many cases diminished their effectiveness in helping direct accurate fire of the guns firing them.
OTOH, without tracers you lose the psychological intimidation that could cause fighters to break off early.
OMG, those things were pretty hi-tech. I had no idea that the B29 was anything more than a bigger version of a B17. Watch some training films on B17s---They were a complicated piece of machinery, but compare them to B29s.
Pilot accounts of intercepting B-29s said they still saw all the guns blasting away at them so can tell if they are being engaged.
All these soldiers are hero’s to me. Facing an overwhelming and faster aircraft from the start speaks volumes on their courage. I’m a Marine combat vet and I respect these army guys all day long. BZ gentleman. Semper Fi
Impressive - I had no idea the B29 was so sophisticated in terms of fire control officers, computers calculating firing solutions etc. Neccesity is truly the mother of invention.
My uncle was a gunner in a B-24 . After doing a tour in Europe he trained on B-29. He mastered it so well he was made instructor
I was not aware that one sighting station could control three guns at the same time. Very informative video as a lot of people are curious as to how mechanisms were integrated in these aircraft.
Yes, but of course there is the issue of what to do when the aircraft is being attacked from multiple directions. Aerial combat isn't a martial arts film and enemies don't necessarily politely engage you one at a time.
Yeah maybe you should talk to WW2 vets about the reality of combat and war😂👌
B29 is probably my favorite airplane. I saw an
episode of Nova about the effort to restore the Kee Bird when I was a kid and it started my love of aviation. Two decades later I’m an Air Force munitions specialist. Just discovered this channel. I love it. Was showing my coworkers some of the shots of the ground crews loading the guns and we all got a good laugh. We’d have our asses on a platter if we had rounds just laying out like that or hanging down the side of an aircraft. So interesting to see how things have changed. Maybe you can do a video on the support crews.
I learned more from this video than any other videos covering the B-29, despite having a fraction of budget and time spent toward overall video production, thank you. Keep applying yourself to your passions, and contributing to your channel. Your efforts are appreciated and admired!
Glad it helped!
My father was born in 1927. He graduated from High School at 17 - and Enlisted in The Army Air Corps. Since he was 17 - his mother had to approve his enlistment.
He trained to be a radio operator/aerial gunner on B-17’s. Sometimes the radio operator - in addition his other duties - manned a single M2 Browning.
Dad completed his training in March of 1945. But instead of being sent to The ETO (European Theatre of Operations) - he received orders to Everett Field, WA. There to cross train on B-29’s. He was still training with orders to report overseas when Little Boy and Fat Man were dropped.
My dad was a B-29 gunnery instructor, from late '44 to early '45. He didn't really say all that much about the B-29's gunnery system, just that one gunner could operate more than one turret at a time. This video fills in all the vast holes in info I could glean on the system, most of which I only have gotten from reading books on the B-29 missions.
Thanks for the vid, especially showing how the different mechanisms of the system worked. Now I have a better idea what my dad had to know so he could teach the gunnery crews -- many of them probably sent to the Pacific Theater.
I've done hundreds of hours of research on my grandfather's service as a B25 bombardier in China during WW2. The amount of effort (and talent) that was put into this video blows my mind. This is truly an exceptional piece of work. And only one of many videos this channel has created. Thank you!
My dad was a stateside mechanic as the B29 was going through initial problems. Years ago, I still had his tech manuals from war years. This aircraft was truly cutting edge, and despite many issues, developed into a truly excellent platform for many missions. Amazing what Boeing created, and what our flight crews and other engineers accomplished.
......a platform that was successfully integrated into the subsequent airliners.
I've seen some old war footage with these turret computers and fire controllers. It really is amazing how far and effective the upgrades are compared to a b-17. Really night and day.
It really is amazing how advanced the Super Forts were.
The B-17 looks like a plane from the 1930s. The B-29 looks like a plane from the early Cold War.
Too advanced for the time... [Edit: Apparently I was wrong about the turrets, given the effectiveness stats in the video... Even if you cut back these figures as overestimation or bad Japanese tactics, they are surprising. But almost the only effective missions were the night raids, which all had the guns removed, leaving the turrets entirely as massive dead weight]. By the time the engine bugs were ironed out, the War was long over (only 1654 built in WWII out of the 3970 total). Only the weakness of Japanese defenses gave the illusion of superior performance, and due to magnesium engines burning at 5000 degrees through the wings in seconds (a material never used again) around 150 of 493 losses were engine fires (possibly as much as 250), The engine reliability was bad, and only through massive logistical overkill from engine replacements was this alleviated. By the time they were reliable, the whole aircraft was outclassed by jets. It then did get slaughtered by Migs in Korea... To minimise overheating during WWII, it flew with cowl flaps open all the time, so far, far below spec speed, this all the way to the end of WWII. Only Nuclear bombers and B models had better engines during WWII. Pressurisation also made it blind from condensation if damaged, so over Europe against stronger defenses (even if only from flak) it might not have fared that well. The expense of the turrets did make sense with strong fighter defenses in mind...
@@wrathofatlantis2316 Sounds like you know a lot about American aircraft. Thanks for the explanation.
10:18 - Interesting about the "six bombing phases", and the last was by the 509th Composite Group flying two missions. In perhaps the understatement of the war wrap-up, the results were noted as "VE" for "Very Effective". I should say so!
Those final 509th missions definitely were effective. There are a lot of trade-offs but for sure, it took far less logistically in allied equipment and man power than the firebombing raids and typical HE bombing, but that was SOME equipment the 509th carried!
900+ fighters shot down by B29s! That's BIG STUFF never heard of! Ditto the coordination of three guns by one gunner. I was told by a 29 pilot who watched a 29 circling down to crash AND shooting down three fighters on the way. Your site is very rich and could be spread out and embellished with more. Impressive as is.
I had the pleasure of seeing a B29 fly at an air show a few years ago. It was like watching a graceful metal bird glide through the air.
My dad was a tail gunner in Korea on the b-29. He was proud of that. He later became a helicopter, and fighter pilot. He said how advanced the B-29 was I'm glad I saw this.
My Dad was a gunnery instructor on those in WW2 - he LOVED it. So much better than the 17's and 24's.
Thank you! I have the B-29 training manual but did not understand all the details of how the guns were controlled remotely. It was an incredible machine, way ahead of its time.
My dad was a B-29 gunner after the war, and I remember him telling me about when jets starting coming online. He said the speed difference was so drastic between jets and piston engine fighters, it was nearly impossible to track them through the sights. He said they were trained to just open the reticle all the way and squeeze the trigger.
Wow. Thank you for sharing. Can’t imagine how nerve wracking it must have been going up against jets. Your father is an American hero. God bless you and your family.
I could run the defensive system on one IC. But I stand in awe of the amount of intelligence that went into designing this system. It was built with engineers using slide rules and mock-ups.
Using tubes amazes me. Building tubes that worked in the rugged conditions this bomber faced is another amazing achievement.
Touring The Iowa - I was able to see Mk 1 Fire Control System used to develop solutions for The Mk 7 16”50 caliber guns. I was truly amazed at the skill of those who machined the gears and cams for such a system.
Great video ,as usual.
That was so complicated.
I am amazed the gunners had the time to react as the planes dove past at close to four hundred miles per hour.
Much respect to the American gunners who went from an open side or rear mechanical firing solution to a completely bizarre ....tube electronic..... computer operated...... closed cockpit aiming and firing system that required a massive amount of learning in a extremely short amount of time.
Just wow.
Remember....there was'nt even regular television at this time.
Radio was still king.
Just incredible.
So much information ! Awesome ! 2 things that surprised me, 1/ the payload penalty when using a quad 50 turret. I would have guessed much less maybe 500ish ? 2/ The pretty poor arc of fire of the tail turret. Seems common to most bomber tho so I'm wondering why. I'm guessing it technically difficult to have a full blown turret all the way at the end of the plane. Definately not a place where you'd want extra weight.
@@jackgee3200 Only the B-29 had armament removed due to the Japanese holding back for the invasion... And it was only the GUNS... They still dragged those 4 X 2000 pound turrets with no guns on those low altitude raids... And angled guns allowed the Ki-45 belly attacks without fear, save a few "misguided" crews keeping one lower rear turret armed with minimal ammo... They could not claim the kill afterwards, having disobeyed the disarming orders...
Thank you for this clear and comprehensive overview. The advantages in what the B-29 fielded compared with the B-17 are jaw-dropping.
What fantastic machine. Great outline. With all that sophisticated defence system it’s no wonder that it took so long to develop and produce the B29.. So few being shot down is an impressive statistic.
A very comprehensive explanation. Amazing to see that the B-29 kill radio was better than the P-51.
This is so totally fascinating. I had no Earthly idea that ANY gun sighting system during WW2 was so complex.....and effective.
Truly superb overview. That plane was a technological powerhouse. Some fascinating stats in there too. Well done!
Many thanks!
One of my uncles was a tail gunner on a B-29 which went MIA. I have always been fascinated by the B-29 and hope to see "Fiji" IRL at some point. This video was very well done: thank you.
Thoroughly enjoyed this. So much data. The B-29: by far the most impactful aircraft ever produced.
Another ultra-superb presentation! Your source docs are fantastic. My great-uncle was a B-29 gunner, with victories to his credit. My mother has wonderful memories of her Uncle Hank's humor and sing-alongs when she was young, so I must thank that defensive system for getting him through such an awful war.
This gun system seems as revolutionary as any other aspect of the B29. I would like to see comparable data on the ETO.
Great info! Thanks. So complex versus earlier bombers. The technology leaps during this war were incredible.
Fascinating video - start to finish; extremely well done! I found the charts capturing diminished pilot experience as the war went on most interesting. As a former Navy pilot with just over 4K hours, most of us felt that, at 800-1200 hours we were really on top of all aspects of our aircraft: tactical flying, systems knowledge, emergency procedures, night shipboard landings, etc. Since we're pretty Sierra Hotel, historically, that's the window where we have the most Pilot Error mishaps... Was not uncommon to have 0-4s in the squadron with 2K flight hours (not to mention hundreds of simulator hours) in model if they had done an instructor tour in their fleet aircraft. Again, nice job!
This was a great video. Never realized the b29 was so much more advanced than the b17. Subbed!
Great video, our father was a B-29 pilot and flew from Saipan in 45’.
This is the first video I've watched from your channel, and I was impressed. Very "data-rich", with a lot of information I'd not come across before. I'd not realized how automated the defensive systems were on the B-29, nor how effective they were - highly impressive for mid-40's technology!
It's really great to finally see how this fire control system integrates and functions together. Thank you for such a thorough and approachable breakdown!
Well done video. I toured "FIFI" this summer when she was in town. The crew explained the basics of the sighting system- I had no idea it was that advanced! He pointed out the range advantage of the good ol' .50-cal, and that many B-29 crews were awarded as ACES for the number of enemy fighters they shot down.
Thanks a lot for the video and in particular for the listed library of additional related content and the provided pdf with all the charts. Top notch!
WW2 technology was fascinatingly more advance than most people would think.
It would be most interesting if you could do a similar analysis of the capabilities of the 20mm gun turrets of the B36 bomber. I always wondered how they would fair against jets and if they were designed with that capability. And if the ballistic computers as advanced as those in the B29. I thoroughly enjoyed this video.
YES!!! very pleased you are doing the B-29 doc.
I’m used to learning a few new things from every documentary, but this whole video was new to me. Nice work.
Thanks for producing this video. This gunnery system was so much more sophisticated than I ever imagined.
Thanks for another great episode. Your research and visual sources are outstanding. Your narration is clear and explains so much. One of the best channels I've seen
Another great video. Thanks for all your work on this channel. It's excellent material!
Extremely informative! I love the abundance of period sources!
Thank you for producing the best WW2 bomber channel, actually the best air combat on WW2
These videos are pure gold. Thank you so much.
This is an outstanding channel. I always watch your content the moment I see the notification. Thank you for all your hard work. I am 100 percent certain the time n my life I have spent reading books, listening to books while driving, gaming, watching videos and going to air shows to learn about warbirds and their operations exceeds the time most of the real airmen spent in the actual war. You could call me a fanatic about warbirds but I don’t think I’m alone.
No
Your not alone
I have 55 years of experience studying this subject!
Excellent review. Appreciate how you introduce and explain the graphs to orient the viewer on the important details. When people are familiar with graphs or tables they often forget that the audience needs the framework to quickly appreciate the specific details. Well done. Overall this was a very informative and smooth presentation.
I LOVED this video. I learned so much. I had no ideas about the computers. Thanks for putting this together.
An exceptional video. Your knowledge and passion for the topic are evident. Thank you.
Wow, I didn't know that such technology existed at that time! Thanks for an informative episode!
Hi Channel owner
Thanks for making this video about such a rare topic.
I consider myself one of many WWII aviation amature historian. I have dug into a lot of the B-29 stuff, but you reveled a lot about the gunsystem I did not know.
Thanks 🙂
Exemplary video! All hard facts and diagrams but with very clear and understandable narration.
They should all be like this!👍🏼
Enlightening! I never knew how integrated all these turret systems were, nor the presence of the vacuum tubed analog computers! Excellent presentation here!
Fascinating close-up detail of the "computers" and tech of that era- thanks ! :)
This is fascinating. Do you know if any records exist for how effective the B-29's gunners were in the Korean War?
I know the airframes were more vulnerable due to the higher speed of enemy Mig-15 jets and their heavier 30mm cannon armament, but I do know some B-29's like "Command Decision" managed to earn ace status against jets in return.
Top tier video as usual. Thanks for doing all the research.
What an amazing channel. Never thought I would know this stuff.
An excellent summary of a topic that I've wondered about for many years. Thanks. I wouldn't mind something a bit more technical about how the remote gunnery system was developed and how it worked from sighting by the gunner to when the bullets left the barrel.
Wow!!!
Just wow!
What an INCREDIBLY complete (seemingly) video.
Thank you, very much for this.
BTW - the B-29 gun system looks incredible for 1944-45.
The reticles look like they are from the early '70's.
☮
Thank you! You have no idea how immediately helpful this way in my writing.
This is a fantastic deep dive into the B29
You have the most interesting content on youtube regarding bombers that I have encountered.Thank you for your uploads
Very excellent. Thank You. I've always wondered about the B-29 gun systems.
One of the best technical channels on CZcams! Keep it up! And thanks!
Thank you for an informative and detailed video on this subject. Well Done!
My best friends dad was a radio operator on the B-29. He had stories of the hellfire and brimstone that the forward upper turret brought. I don't know for sure but he made it sounds like the links and spent casings were ejected directly into the 'can' containing the turret. It might have been in it's own 'bucket' but he said there was plenty of ruckus when those quad .50's fired.
Glad I found your channel. Retired USAF MSgt and Civilian Historian. Great research you've done here.
It's a unique channel that deserves a lot of credit.
Such a helpful video! I actually just picked up one of the plexiglass gunners blister windows at an estate sale last week.
Ya gotta love a labor of love like this. 🇺🇸🤩
Very well researched. Great presentation. Thanks for this!
I love this stuff. Keep it coming. Big fan from Australia.
I've enjoyed all your work so far. Thanks!
Excellent work! Thank you!
Thankyou for this most comprehensive presentation about the remotely controlled machine guns of the B-29.
A very interesting subject.
Subscribed.
You have done very well yet again.
Great video. This is the first one I've seen on the B-29 gun system.
delightful mix of data and analysis. Thank you for your clear and interesting presentation.
FASCINATING video, thank you! Subscribed.
This channel deserves more subs.
If I ever had questions about the defensive system of the B-29, I don't have them anymore. You answered them all. I can't think of anything you missed. The comment about removing the tracer rounds? A bonus. Excellent video!!!
Glad I could help
Excellent referencing and production values. Well done.
Very nicely done!
I like your videos man. I've never seen the actual reticle in the gun sight before. Good job
Nice, very informative.
Good stuff. Thanks for the video.
Excellent video. You explored facts and cause - effects seldom explored in other videos on similar subjects. Your use of era appropriate documents is much appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing. I've long wondered how effective B-29 defensive measures were. You've described very effective defense. It worked! Thanks.