The Case for Living a Moral Life | Ronnie Janoff-Bulman
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Here is a clip from tomorrow's podcast. In it, professor of psychology Ronnie Janoff-Bulman and Dr. Peterson discuss the case for morality, spearheaded by a breakdown of the biblical story of Job. The full episode releases tomorrow at 5PM ET.
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"In order to stabilize the structure through which you view the world, it is necessary to adopt as axiomatic the notion that whatever happens to you, if you conduct yourself ethically, is the best thing that could happen, regardless of the proximal evidence. It is also necessary for you not to lose faith in the essential goodness of being itself." Gracias, lo necesitaba.
beautifully put.
" if you conduct yourself ethically, is the best thing that could happen to you". I disagree. When you act like that and associate with people who do not conduct themselves ethically, you are taken advantage of. It could be the worst thing that could happen to you. In an ideal world, your cited quote would be true ... but we live in a world of self obsessed psychopaths.
@@someguy4502 "It is also necessary for you not to lose faith in the essential goodness of being itself" . He also has stated before that it is ethically your duty to stay true to that moral compass regardless of what happens to you. It is not naiive nor pessimistic. Everyone is full of snakes. You go forward with it anyways.
Moral life is a healthy life. Difficulties easier with moral friends and they are reliable, helpful, self sacrificing.
I really appreciate this short content
I too, really appreciate that this woman doesn't talk for long.
In terms of self-blame, it seems like there's a greater proportion of people who have an external locus of control, and that's amplified by our perpetual victimhood culture. There are also those who place undue guilt on themselves, but the reflex of diffusing blame to some external entity is more common among people who habitually avoid personal accountability.
I learned from an excellent teacher, R.C. Sproul, of Ligonier Ministries (a Christian pastor before it was “in” to be a Christian”), that ethics are immutable while morality is time specific and what is accepted in a culture at a particular time. This nugget of information has been so helpful I thought I would share it.
Wow thank you for that deep knowledge
I love that Jordan's subscriber numbers keep climbing. More people need to hear his message.
I do too and I'm not a religious person. Whether he believes in God or not doesn't matter at all to me, I fully agree on many of his opinions about life, meaning and responsibilities of men and women!
Same here!! It gives me hope.
Jordan lives his life" as if " god is real. I am an atheist who does not think I am god.@@Sensorama2000
What do you mean by love? What do you mean by numbers? Its complicated man! I think you should clean your room a bit more!
I love that the number of fools that say he's only gibberish are shrinking as they find out you have to listen closer and have a somewhat expanded vocabulary as well as a developed frontal lobe!😅
Thank you so much Jordan Peterson one of my favorite stories in the Bible is job as well in equally the book of James.
Joe taught me no matter what we go through keep going forward keep doing our best to be our best selves no matter what. And as well Joe taught me that this is one of the few books that has dialects between Lucifer and God making a bet on job very interesting dialogue between God and the devil.
And the end where everything was returned 10 times wow what an inspiration.
This will be good. I I just got out of prison. I need some J.P interviews 😁
I hope that the interviews meet your expectations, and stay strong 😊
Bro😂
Job is the most underrated person in the bible. Good to see the Doc is bringing him up.
Dr. Peterson please interview Paul Rosolie. The fight against human trafficking and deforestation go hand in hand. It would mean so much to the world to see him on this podcast. Thank you.
People get terrified when they begin to understand, but mostly chose to harden their hearts rather than accepting it and be enlightened.
Dont be so "enlightened", that your brain falls out
@@friarnewborg9213 You know who's "enlightened"? Legacy media and academia. They sure think so.
@@DavidPereiraLima123 Well, yes, if one uses meaning 1 from the Oxford online dictionary:
having or showing a rational, modern, and well-informed outlook.
"the more enlightened employers offer better terms"
But not when one uses meaning 2 from the Oxford online dictionary:
spiritually aware.
"we become enlightened in our relationship with God"
Jordans content is getting better and better. I like where he's heading with his interest in the opinion of prominent women lately.
Job's faithfulness before his ordeals and during his ordeals is a testament of spiritual success that translate into earthly success. We can all learn from him. God honours and rewards faithfulness.
Faith is the one and only thing no one can take from you. You’d either have to give up faith willingly or tricked into giving it up unwillingly.
I don't know what you mean by the second part. Example?
Being unwillingly tricked is identical in nature to theft.
Otherwise the concept of fraud as crime would have no meaning.
@@sharpenedge there are many examples of getting tricked into giving up your faith. Some people start out with good intentions but at some point they get cynical or weak minded and just give up their faith and look the other way or worse. How about all the, “Normal,” people who went to war and suffered enough trauma to, “Follow orders,” that were war crimes?
There are a lot of con artists out there and some people are not savvy or street smart. These nice people find out the hard way and sometimes then actually repeat bad behavior done to them.
Some people can be agreeable to a fault and engage in toxic collectivism. This can be an otherwise nice person who joined a violent street mob or who was indoctrinated into joining a cult.
In England, there is a rocky ledge overlooking an ancient church known as "The devil's Pulpit". IMO - that's a good name for social media, as well.
If evangelists call social media that way, I'll begrundgly agree, even if they came after the millenial's video games and board games in the 90's and early 00's. Now they'd be right, social media is a dangerous game.
1) job was rightous in his own eyes (important)
2) job justified himself rather than God
3) [AFTER] God spoke out of the whirlwind, job declared: "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.
Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes."
Rightous job was "self " rightous.
True rightousness comes only theiugh God and only by faith.
Satan is a creation of God. Satan turned inward to himself and now his aim is to kill steal and destroy.
But we know God has His plan.
Even satan, our adversary, will lead us to a saving faith. What our enemy intended for destruction, God meant to turn our attention.
-Job was an upright man.
But true rightousness comes through faith alone.
God will allow horrible things to happen in order for people to see things the way they truly are.
Self rightousness is no rightousness at all. Job learned this lesson.
How grateful to see it!
...Then God restored to him way more than He had to begin with.
Great comment!
Stoicism has helped me more then anything 🎉❤
When she says rebuilding assumptions she means rebuilding faith. When people were initialized in a benevolent faith, once it is shattered they find ways to mend and reconnect to its constructs, assimilating the experienced shattering. People blame themselves because in so doing they allow hope. If it is their fault then it means it is possible for them to navigate away from the bad into the good by changing themselves.
These years are really racing by, eh? I can't believe it's been 8 years already since I first heard Dr. Peterson. Hey from Michigan, Doc. The story of Job and Jung's interpretation of it are both fascinating. I hope I never get "Job-ed" by the Lord. Wow, and your interpretation is equally interesting and thought-provoking. I'll think about this. Thanks. Thanks also to your guest, that was insightful.
The world we are born into is Job-ed.
Life is fair. The world is not random. It’s made of cause & effects.
Good subject.
The devil is always not alone! It's hard to fight more than one.
FIRST ONE HERE TODAY!
So much admiration for you Jordan and the Daily Wire Team!
Very comforting, thank you
Job is a metaphor of the grain offering, which in turn is a metaphor of a life of faith with the sufferings of the Christ spirit. A life laid down to gain a resurrection. The promise of rebirth and inner clarity, peace and stillness. A means to an end and a beginning. Like the garden analogy of the trees, the left and right brain. The inner conflict of choice between reason and trust. This life that was once enacted with innocent acceptance, only to first inevitably be corrupted by the projection of generational mistrust, fear and the pride of life. Each generation then having to choose again from which to eat, should they be fortunate enough to have access to the guidance necessary to understand. Of course, Jobs friends were eating from the wrong tree
Thank you for the amazing lecture last night in Phoenix! You have been an inspiration for me to be a better person so I can be the best I can be for my family. You have helped me progress to a more meaningful life.
I'm amazed they don't get depressed and insane from having this sort of meta-discussion about faith and meaning. The longer I listen to them the more intensely I smell that bitter absurd emptiness they're desperately trying to talk their way out of. I'm just going to keep doing the best thing one can do, try to stay social and physically healthy, and try my darndest to avoid thinking about getting maimed by a car and other ill fortunes
it took like 3 seconds for me to realize I like this woman
Did you read the book of Job with a near eastern view point and understanding or a current world view?
LOL. You know the answer to that.
Jordan you are a Gemini like me, awesome
You are definitely a spiritual man.. Amene
Where can I watch the whole interview please? Thank you 🙏🏻
as stated in the desription: The full episode releases tomorrow at 5PM ET
Christ is risen
He is risen indeed!
Truly He is Risen!
WE NEED AN EPISODE WITH DR. WILLIAM LANE CRAIG! However it may require more time than 90 minutes 😂
Please interview Professor Rosario Butterfield on Feminism, she has Another Perspective!
*I've learned to be moral with the moral and immoral with the immoral* 💀👌
Faith is all we have, whether you wish to deny this or embrace it.
It's good to have faith , but more is needed in my eyes,, I remember what Nezchie said about it,
@@allen4758 Without acknowledgement of faith we are lost in the metaphysical wilderness of meaningless existence.
As I say; you can place your faith in the inconsequential, or you can believe in purpose. Either way, faith is needed.
Thanks
Every version of past-me is simultaneously laughing at me. Truth is, they couldn’t fathom the depth anyway, and I finally don’t care who laughs at me.
You interested me with THE BIBLE, dude. Hats off.
Jordan please consider having David Goggins on a podcast. Millions of people will listen & Benefit from it. Please consider it.
Faith is the things you hope for.
Faith is wishing for something ….
She stutters too much it's annoying
@@phillipcarter8045no faith is believing it will wishing is hoping it might happen
Self-blame, because it would be even more painful to sacrifice the belief that the world/life is fair.
Fairness is very important, that's why humans invented a justice system.
The book of Job is a story of mankind’s integrity
Interesting psychological phenomenon.
I think Mr. Peterson has drawn the longest stick in this debate,
because a preacher who is questioning his assumptions and calling it a "tall order" , is by my opinion hilarious.
👍🤣
This is quite a coincidence. I returned Shattered Assumptions to the library just yesterday. If you're interested in how people deal with bad things happening to them, I can't recommend this book more highly. It deserves the attention and citations it has garnered over the years.
Good and bad are RELATIVE. 😉
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
if we are to axiomatically assume in the essential goodness of someone, then is there a counter argument to it of psychopaths taking advantage of this in the Bible?
You don't need a psychopath, if you go out of your way to look like lunch, you will be eaten.
I may not go to church to believe in the Lord, I carry my Mum bible everywhere and read it when I'm in relaxed mode
We Were Given by God what is The Ten Commandments also Called The Moral Laws but We see in The World of Today Many People call them Antiquated!
They Call them Unessential because I have My Self Made Morals .
I Like The Answer Jesus Gave To The Rich Young man when he called Jesus a Good Teacher. In This Nation if You Would as Someone This Profound Question ( Are You a Good Person? )
I Do Believe There Way Way More People that will say yes I Am and Very Very little that would Say There is Only One that is Biblical Good and that is God! I Do Believe I Like Your Video Post
Mr. Peterson Interesting always and Go back and Try to Learn for we should always be seeking Knowledge!
Hope it's the dangerous session..never staying with that.
Live a guilt free life by living a guilt free life.
🍻🇨🇦🇱🇷🍻💪💪play a victim be a victim lol. Good vid!!!!
Actually, even more terrifying, Satan didn't ask about Job. God, said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant, Job?"
God would not gamble with someone's life, nor give away his plans to satan or discuss them. God had something for Job that he needed to face and pull through, Job had a very superficial view of God as a decent man, that is not enough. Malevolence was manifested at his worse in financial circumstances, death, even in his wife and friends. Showing pain and suffering is not the end of it all. Job is another puzzle piece to get to Christ. Job demonstrated the attitude of Christ in Gethsemane when he was suffering the worse temptation which is, is it worth it to die for people? Maybe not, but not my will. Job's best line is God gave and God took away, he never went into resentment and hate towards people and God.
Question: Do you ever want to hear a woman's perspective when you have a series like the Exodus one?
You are missing that God brought up Job first and pointed him out to Satan.
It can also be said we do that on our own no problem.
the laws of energy, ( Why did I attract this into my life ) instead of self blame, that type of contemplation is what allows us to evolve and grow as human beings and spiritual beings.
Humility, love, loyalty, obedience and self sacrifice are the teachings of Jesus Christ our Lord. You can't have objective morality without them.
Why does it appear that the relationship to naming an event as bad relies upon someone’s definition of it
That's a very good question! Many a supposed trial contains the purpose of life, when we search for it. Faith through difficulties can precede the blessings, even miracles, chiefly the ability to understand those who suffer and act with compassion as our Savior did.
@@stephtimms1776 We live in a world where the living soul is present and with that presence ones can administer Good deeds or bad deeds as they to belong to the expressed reality . Much light or warmth from the community of Christians I hope that too
Actually job is chilling. How God sees Satan move threw his halls and God points him out to his presence before him. In which he wages his friend Job already knowing the outcome as God. Meaning that our existence is meaningless. Just as how he raptures out the man who catches the ark as communion with God, when the man knows if he is to touch God he will surely die.
❤
This woman is a treasure. She understands. Thanks.
She makes a point about how republicans say they wish to provide equal opportunity whereas it would be more to say that conservatives wish to provide a living opportunity that will be allowed to grow and evolve, where as liberals wish to do make other endear what they did to blacks, who as soon job discrimination was outlawed they trapped them in the welfare which froze their economic advancement 50 years ago.
He's coming to vegas. Not really the audience for the moral life.
19th, 15 May 2024
Whoever decided to start doing "teaser clips" a day or 2 before the full episode... i hate it! Its super annoying! When i start listening i want to hear the full conversation... not a 10 minute clip and then wait for the rest its stupid and it makes me lose interest to come back and listen later. Please go back to the previous format for uploading!
Or think of them as "warning" clips, to save wasting an hour or two later.
Chill out homie, it's all good. If you don't like 10 mins. Have a bit of patience and wait for the full ep. Have some faith, be like Joeb. Life is good
""Faith is without proof " she said.
"Faith is trust madam... you trust what youve proven trust worthy..."
Yours si blind faith... though some do that... not good/
I love Peterson, however his studies of the Bible have a lot of imaginary conclusions. I watched his panel course and I saw all of the panel members really read into the Scriptures far beyond what they actually meant. It’s similar to people drawing fantastic fantasy conclusions from random events then exclaim “There! Ya see! It was meant to be!” But I did enjoy all of the different and similar views.
The Dean of Women lectures on sexual morality: “Ask yourself: Is an hour of pleasure worth a lifetime of shame?” A student asks, “How do you make it last an hour?”
at 1:00 that’s not exactly how it went down… the book of Job says God: “where have you been, Satan?” Satan: “I’ve been here and there and everywhere.” God: “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the Earth. He is perfect.” Satan: “I saw him, but You’ve been protecting him. I bet I can make him curse you” God: “Bet. You can touch everything he has except him. Go for it. You’ll lose.”
i wish this made sense a year ago,but im not
getting up.
Too complicated to understand 😢
25 for I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Good enough parenting ? How idealistic !
We do not have education in our societies. It is instruction that we get in school.
No parent is competent. It's not true that any parent can raise indifferently one child or another and be successful !
They cannot ! Its a relationship and its subjective. How often a parent and a child are a fit that will give good result ?
Also, even "situationally fit" parent still lack dramatically the resources (specially time) and knowledge to do a proper job.
Institutions tend to standardize and protocolize, its the wrong answer when they face a 'situation' with a perceived 'divergent' !
We live in a dream about education and nobody dares jump out and be aware of something else than their manichaeistic fears.
And who is so manichaeistic ? So obsessed with evil ? You tell me, they are the enemy of truth !
BTW, we do have beliefs before being born ! That's how we have different personality, inclinations.
And no, its not true everybody goes to clinicians (I take : psychologists and the like). People don't understand psychology and think they are weak (seen as by peers) if they consult them. Specially for those who want to consult as parents, 'clinicians' must present themselves and invite them (parents) more as teachers into the art of education then about looking for some default in them that they are not sure is there, and are afraid to know. (we all have defaults, better to know them, what say you, Jordan ?)
Thank you.
Interpretation of the story depends on whether you trust the narrator who is, essentially, blaming God for what is happening, instead of seeing those events as the inevitable disruption of God's order caused by human disobedience. Job knows better. The story has more to do with the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness than with the crucifixion.
This woman is so in love with her ideas that she can no longer distinguish the simple reality.. She lost her common sense a long time ago.
God cannot "save" you, since, in disbelief and in stubbornness, you will continue to make the same earthbound mistakes till the end of time-thus creating your own sicknesses and miseries.
Those who have insight and understanding will save themselves and the planet from wholesale disaster.
There are a few people who have already received TRUTH with joy, since in their soul, they have known that beyond the religions of the world has been TRUTH-the REALITY of EXISTENCE. These are the people who will prosper and will eventually save the world from themselves.
You cannot ignore the problems inherent in your individualized existence and believe that God will "save" you from them.
Your only hope of a final escape, of stepping off the treadmill of human experience, is to recognize and acknowledge them-and then work minute-by-minute to transcend them-and eventually merge in purity of mind, heart and action, and become "one" with UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
Therefore, no control for "good" or "evil" is exercised by God. If there were, the world will not be in such a shocking state of upheaval and misery.
8th
WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE MORAL?:
There is a certain proportion of humanity who, unfortunately, are afflicted with psychological disorders, such as sociopathy and psychopathy, and therefore, are incapable of ever understanding the reason why it is beneficial for them to adhere to dharma (that is, the law, and societal duties, as defined in this chapter, and in the Glossary). As an advocate for veganism/animal right(s), it never ceases to AMAZE me how many humans are hostile to the non-harming of our fellow animal life, even though, by refraining from undue animal use and abuse, we are factually benefitting ourselves also, what to speak of the benefit to the environment that automatically ensues from the reduction in animal agriculture, et cetera! Of course, those who are exceptionally perceptive, understand that the universe is essentially a holistic system, and so, when one seemingly-discreet subdivision of creation is negatively-affected, it either directly or indirectly affects the entire system, of which we are part.
In the magnificent (and very lengthy) ancient Sanskrit epic poem, “Mahābhārata”, one of its main characters, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, was asked, “What is the most wondrous thing in the world”, to which he replied, “The most wonderful thing in the world is, that everyone can clearly see death all about them, but believe that they themselves will not die!”. One of another most bizarre facts about humans is, that we need to be laboriously convinced by others (specifically, by religious preachers or spiritual teachers/masters), that it is in our OWN best interests to live a morally-righteous life. It seems that the typical human being cannot easily understand the simple fact, that by following the law (again, the law of avoiding unjustifiable harm), they themselves will be greatly benefitted, by acquiring the sublime peace and happiness that we desperately seek in every moment of the waking day (and even during sleep, since most humans conflate the pleasure of sleep, with genuine happiness).
So, in summary, the UNDENIABLE fact is, that by adhering to the principle of dharma, and especially by actively propagating dharma as much as it is practicable, human beings will automatically find this much-sought-after peace, especially if one also observes at least one of the four systems of yoga/religion, delineated in Chapter 16 of this Holy Writ (preferably more than one system, particularly the yoga of knowledge). As the adage states, “The proof of the pudding, is in the eating”. After all, pragmatism has become a legitimate philosophical tradition since the 1870s, so it ought not be discounted by epistemologists. Of course, sceptics will counter thus: “You proclaim that the reason why we should adhere to the law, is so that we may find genuine peace and happiness, but why should we strive for peace and happiness?”. The only possible response to such scepticism is to say that there must be a grounding axiom, and that the ultimate metric for human behaviour is that we ought to do that which facilitates peace/happiness, and such behaviour constitutes living one’s life according to the law, otherwise humanity will soon become extinct (though the obvious response to this event, by sceptics, would obviously be, “So what if humanity becomes extinct?”).
To put it bluntly, if one wishes the demise of our species, following the law is unimportant, but for those who aspires to continue living in this world, and for the prosperity of humanity, it is absolutely imperative for law (“dharma”, in Sanskrit) to be observed as far as humanly possible.
Even more tersely, the following verse, from the eighth chapter of an ancient Indian text entitled “Manava Dharmaśastra” (known alternatively as “Manusmṛiti”), composed approximately two thousand years ago, explains the simple reason why one ought to adhere to dharma:
“Dharma eva hato hanti dharmo rakṣati rakṣitaḥ । tasmād dharmo na hantavyo mā no dharmo hato’vadhīt” (8.15),
states that when righteousness (dharma) is destroyed, it destroys, but when the law (dharma) is protected, it protects. Therefore, if one wants to be protected from any possible (unjustified) harm, one should be careful to follow the law, as explicated in this vital chapter of “F.I.S.H”.
Living a “moral life” is for those who are privileged enough to have money and family 🌺
That's incorrect.
Can money and family also come from hard work or intelligence or good luck? Do Monks not live a moral life without money or family?
@@enidmarsh9142 : Monks are a minute group on the Globe. For most people, a “moral life” isn’t feasible because people will do what they need to do in order to survive, however immoral those things may be.
Don't show Jake Paul this, it might embarrass him.
Adam blamed Eve. He said” she made me eat of the apple”.
Well it was eve’s fault ‘’.
Although I respect her research, when she got political and started the “anti-MAGA” lines, she became a hack and was not objective in the least.
I wish Dr. Peterson would not talk so much. He participates in a dialogue of ONE. Why bother to have a guest? Just give a talk and be done with it. I’m speaking as someone who does appreciate what Dr. Peterson has to say.
She had excellent points until she started putting down MAGA conservatives as not worth hashing things out with. She further stated the the Republican party in the United States is now an Alt Right party while the democratic party is mainstream. What?
I think someone reprogrammed her anticipatory regiments and rewired her Autocratic responses right under her nose. If it can happen to a smart woman like this, it can happen to you.
The basis for living a moral life exists only if something can provide the foundation for knowledge and morality to exist:
God.
Come to Christ, Jordan. Talk with Jonathan more. Attend a liturgy with him. And don’t do it as an academic or philosophical exercise, either.
Jordan Peterson should concentrate on Job's wife a bit more
Hi my brother how are u my name is foday but am here looking for help I have lost my father at this back whay at last week and is now for days we Don't have good food to eat
Why would god do such a horrible thing to a good person just to prove a point to Satan?
If the same I thou Identity exchange swap happens in the course of meaning to a person currently in conversation with
Mesus and Youcifer good sir
What.
@@abigailfeldman ?
Morality is futile without receiving Jesus christ, confessing your sins, and receiving salvation through his death and resurrection for it has been written:
Galatians 3:10-14
10 Those who depend on obeying the Law live under a curse. For the scripture says, "Whoever does not always obey everything that is written in the book of the Law is under God's curse!"
So God ruined his life to prove a point awesome 👌
liberalism is built upon two ideas: maximum freedom and maximum equality. Both of these ideas are erroneous because human behavior has to be restrictaed for the greater good therefore negating maximum freedom. Maximum equality is not possible due to differences in knowledge which establishes hierarchy. We must subjugate ourselves to law of Allah(one/indivisible/self-sufficient/All-loving perfection)) who has totality of data, therefore being the only one that has the right to legislate.
That is an awful story. God literally let’s Satan ruin a man’s life just to prove a point.
Satan is gonna attack anyways, Satan is entropy, death, if God stopped Satan attacking, then he would remove an element of free will due to removing job’s choice to be a good person or give up his choice to Satan
moral of the story is ONLY GOD is allowed to gamble! This is why humans gambling is a sin.
Maybe if you're islamic. But no, it's not, in a way perhaps it is a bit, because it hurts the sinner. A sin is essentialy mistake.