POWERFUL 10 Stage COILGUN PCB + 3D Printed Enclosure
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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🔥DIY gauss with 1 PCB for the all 10 stages. Big coils, huge high voltage capacitors and thyristor control for powerful magnetic field. Very high speed metal detected with phototransistors.
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00:00 Intro
08:51 Thank You
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#electronics
#tutorial
#Altium - Věda a technologie
you can measure the speed with an audio recording. Shoot through 2 paper targets that are a known distance apart. Have the microphone be an equal distance from both impact points (or do a bunch of extra speed of sound calculations). Then use a program like audacity to find the time between the 2 impact sounds. Use distance/time to calculate the speed.
Nice idea !
are microphones fast enough for that?
@@justfasial01 Yes. They do >40000 samples/second. That is plenty for measuring projectiles slower than speed of sound. As a teen, I used to measure softair velocities that way.
very interesting @@HL65536
Why not just put a scope on the last light detector? You know the length of the projectile, so just measure the length of the pulse?
OOOH! This is some powerful coil gun! You need a slowmo camera to see things happening!
Uh that would be nice. Unfortunately those are very expensive. But it would be nice to see how the acceleration changes from coil to coil.
The Boom himself 💥
Yo Slomo Guys....where you at lads?!
@@ELECTRONOOBS there are companies that let you rent them, so it might be worth looking around.
i know
For safety. As you mentioned already the projectile could fire in the opposite direction. Adding a metal plate behind the loading chamber would make it more comfortable to use without fear of getting hit. Also, try putting the voltage display on the top rather that the side. Really good work you've done here.
Personally I'd probably layer rubber, metal, then a shoulder piece of rubber for added comfort of it does backfire. Initial rubber absorbs the shock of the round, the metal stops it, then you have the shoulder piece to absorb the rest of the shock. I don't have loads of experience with electronics but all that force knocking this back makes me think a bad solder connection or something could become dislodged
yep got the same idea
You're right that its possibly that happens but it should only have the power from the first stage, doubtful that has any kind of penetration power for most materials better than paper. Even cardboard could stop it. Something would have to go really wrong in the circuit for it to travel to the other end and then full recharge to fire in opposite order.
Man really just said "there is a chance it'll fire backwards because its going so fast" and then proceeded to completely ignore that potentially fatal design flaw for the sake of getting us a sweet video.
Kudos.
FYI: Stages should use fewer & fewer turns. You want to dump the max amount of energy faster & faster for each coil. Also the coil solenoid should decrease in length since there is less time for projectile to to be accelerated by the coil (since its moving faster). One the projectile reaches about 1/2 of the distance inside of the coil the coil starts deaccelerating the projectile.
right, to optimize for efficiency, precise calculations would be necessary, coils, capacitors and projectile should all be balanced.
Yep. Also the earlier coils should probably use lower capacity capacitors, and last stages higher... But, meh, coilguns are useless and will probably forever will be regardless so what's a difference of extra 10-20 m/s, which is the most you'll get from any and all tinkering?
Use your 2 channel scope on the last 2 LED sensors, the time between their firing shows you the projectile speed during the last 45mm of the tube. You can easily calc feet per second from that.
Also, cut air slots in the tube between the last 5 coils, you will get a big increase in speed when it doesnt have to push all the air out of the tube in front of the projectile.
You make good coil launcher videos 👍🙂
interesting point about the air - I wonder if a small ducted blower blowing across the face of the tube might (venturi effect) cause a small vacuum in the tube and help with that.
Add speed detection to the coil gun. Use the photodiodes across the stages as interrupts to calculate speed using a microcontroller. Improve the outer casing.
Just a heads up - I have that same chronograph and just like you it was driving me up the walls .. until I realised I was shooting in the wrong direction. If you shoot through it via the other direction it should work. Fantastic build here by the way, love it!
Another way of measuring speed is programming an Arduino to detect when each stage sensor is activated, and by knowing the lenght of the coil gun, you can calculate the velocity. Also with that way you can make a graph of the speed that increases gradually after passing through each coil.
great to see some of your big projects again man. Great work 👌
Carbon fiber arrows make great barrels. From a bow and arrow set.
You could make an Open Source version of Tom Stanton’s Coilgun Plane Launcher!
A similar modification would be making the coilgun fire small metal disks (potentially even the “knock out” circles from metal electrical outlet boxes (so essentially using trash), or perhaps washers of cut sheet metal, coins potentially (depends on metal, although “coin blanks” are another option) could work too.
(Also it would be a whole other project, but a CNC Coil Winder may be a good thing to make to allow for custom shapes/sizes)
For your own safety, you should add a metal backstop between the rear end of the barrel and yourself in the fully assembled unit/case.
Would be a good idea to measure speed after every coil and measure how much electric energy was successfully converted into mechanical. For optimising. Also, wind your own coils with bigger and bigger copper wires to discharge the capacitors faster. Also is it possible to make a coil with essentially halbach effect to focus the magnetic field to the inside of the coil?
Instead of smaller coils if you don't have a way to make them or buy them, increase the spacing between the coils and trigger LEDs to correspond to the additional speed that each coil adds to the projectile.
i am glad to see the evolution of this project, it only needs a magazine and maybe a solenoid to load the rod from the mag, nothing that a bit of arduino code can not solve
Add a couple of sensors before and after each coil, you can use this to figure out the velocity before and after the projectile enters the stage. You could also use some digital electronics to adjust the timing of the sensors before and after each coil, it would make tuning the coilgun as easy as adjusting some values in your arduino sketch.
I wonder if you amend your housing print to include sectioning between coils and using magnetic shielding tape/ foil to minimise field bleed over to the next coil.
I'm no electronics expert but what about triggering a capacitor as the projectile passes the sensor this secondary capacitor in opposite polarity to neutralise the charge in the coil... may need something like a shotky diode to handle collapsing spike currents? Have you tried hematite or neodunium projectiles?
If you have an oscilloscope or logic analyzer, you can connect at least three channels to the optical sensor output of successive stages. Then, you can use the time difference between different optical pulses to calculate the speed of the projectile. With additional connections, you can also measure the acceleration between stages as well. Finally, you could calculate the efficiency of the device by computing (1/2)mv^2 / (1/2)ce^2 as you make adjustments -- here m is mass, v is velocity and c is capacitance, e is the starting voltage (electromotive force) across the capacitors. The Arduino approach, although less precise due to the much lower sampling rates, would also be nice if you built it into the next revision of your device so as to provide instant feedback of the velocity of the projectile after firing.
Do you have the polarity the same in each stage or are they alternating? I've always wondered if it would improve the performance with a long enough projectile that it slightly bridges 2 coils, so it has a push pull effect during the reverse current that happens as the field collapses? Im not sure if it would improve or hurt performance lol
Hi. What are the blue diodes for? Why there are two emitters (white diodes) - big one which is against the black infrared receiver and a small one next to it?
Andrei, this is a very interesting project. I very much enjoyed watching the video. I wonder just how many sheets of that plywood it can punch through back to back or what thickness of single sheet is the thickest it can punch through. I'll also be interested in the speed once you get your tester up and running. Thanks for sharing this!
Can you share the PCB altium shematic and components you used, I want to use it in my project.
You should measure the attack and the decay rate from the magnetic fields and phase the timing not equally but slightly out of phase to prevent it shooting backwards.
Awesome job as always!
Suggested improvement:
Could you use the back emf from the prior coil to feed the next coil?
This seems like it would eliminate the risk of the earlier stage magnet reversing the direction of the ball.
I am not sure whether that is a feasible idea. But it seems there would be a very noticeable change in current/voltage of the coil as the metal bead enters and exits.
And frankly... an optical sensor seems unnecessary if you can react to changes in load on each coil.
I can imagine how a circuit like this must work - but I don't have the chops to design it.
Yes, you could (and should imo) reverse the current direction of the coil, as soon as the projectile hits the center. This way most of the remaining energy of the coil gets fed back into the system. It would require current sensing and H bridges on each of the stages though. And that would be an order of magnitude more complex than what he has right now.
@amos9274
My thoughts...
Order of magnitude? Perhaps 10% more. Seems like it would require an extra MOSFET and diode (and the removal of an optical sensor). Perhaps a 10% increase in the component count per stage.
Here is why I don't think reversing current will help.
Coils take time to charge and discharge - reversing the current inside a coil will also take time - and during that time you will be pushing power against near-infinite resistance. All you would get for your effort is heat.
But if you disconnect coil 1 from power at the same time you connect coil 2 to power and capture back EMF from coil 1 through a diode into capacitor 2.
I think the position of the coils would need to be tuned based on segment firing times - if you put the later coils too close together they will not fully charge before the projectile moves through them. Their minimal distance would cause linear acceleration- implying they should be spaced to inverse square...
I think I like designing things more than I like building them :)
@@JohnBoen Yes, what you need to do in the end is lower the current, as the projectile is going through. The more/the faster, the better. If you hooked the coil up in reverse to a common capacitor bank, it would not only return most of the energy, it would also discharge the fastest (U= I'*L). To implement that though you'd need some additional circuitry.
If you want to trigger based off the induced voltage of a projectile, you'd face the issue of it being proportional to the speed (which means it wont work from a standstill) but also, even more measurement circuitry.
Like you proposed, it would also work to dump the energy into just the next single capacitor with an extra diode. First of all, you'd have to replace the thyristor with something more sophisticated for that to work, second of all that would just overcharge that next capacitor (and if not, why not apply a higher voltage in the first place).
So, you'd have to start activating the next coil while the other coil is still active, to dump the energy somewhere afterwards. To do that, you'd need to coordinate between the two coils which would in turn require even more circuitry.
@amos9274
Thanks for the talk - I think triggering based on the current direction change is such a fundamentally better design that it is worth a little more effort.
am a bit rusty. I haven't built any electronics in about 15 years. So I am not getting my point across. I also may think some things areI possible when they really are not.
I think an optical trigger that cannot be adjusted is bad design (it triggers off a side effect) - this trigger would be nearly optimal in timing.
The design referenced here leaves prior coils on, which means your ball is often moving between two magnets that are both on. This is just a bad design...
Turning off the prior coil is an important part of this...
.
I think this would work -tell me what you think:
Assuming a projectile is moving toward or away from the coil.,the induced current will be in opposite directions.
As it passes through the center, the current flow moves.from highly positive.to highly negative. I think this would be trivially easy to detect with an OpAmp.
This is a comparator operation that you could perform with a commercially4 available OpAmp IC. These operate at 200+ khz, which should be well past any realistic circuit needs. A 100 m/s 10 cm ball would not need 20 khz.
Use the comparators to drive MOSFETs.
I did a little hand waving on the OpAmp logic, but this is literally what they are designed to do - so I figure there are dozens of digital and analog solutions to this problem. And since Udio frequencies are sufficient we probably have a whole bunch of low-cost and high-power audio chips available.
Blah blah blah...
is it possible to capture some of the collapsing field after the projectile has been past and partially charge to caps to make it quicker in between shots?
Right now it is just "burned" off on the flyback diode, but there must be some decent ringing on the LC without it.
Have you thought about optimizing the current setup? Faster/smaller coils, ways to lower the resistance etc. Also have you made any research in how to lower the friction or increase the magnetic field strength by using other barrel and projectile material?
Awesome work! Its interesting to see how it will behave with different projectile forms (sphere, bullet like form with sharp tip). Is it possible to make a little turning effect to enhance accuracy? It would be great to see shooting tests on open air, what is accuracy of bullet on ~50-100m distance? How is it powerful on different material targets?
i have the caps from old pcb's , now i have to start collecting coils !! i would probably go for the previous designee since i like the modularity ,(im salvaging components only ) and for soldering i will use the good old trick of heating the pcb on normal clothes iron to soak as much heat as i can into the pcb and then blast it with the soldering iron on full ( ofcorse you make the pcb connections first before any component )
I would like to have your Altium design PCB design file
add a spring feed magazine and a servo+slider to do the auto-reload when charged, ok it wont get fast speeds but still it would be 'cool', do people still say cool? i'm 57 and out of touch lol.
can some electronic lockout be added between stages to stop the backfiring?
maybe the lack of charge in a fired stage's capacitor could be the ground needed for the IR detector of the next stage, if the cap isnt discharged then the IR detection cant ground out? or something like that....
Put another detector at the exit of the coil that triggers an SCR that shorts the coil. But first I would measure the timing with an arduino or something similar. Then you know if this is necessary and what you could gain. Also check the distance from the first detector to the coil. This could be optimised. I would also make the coils shorter and fatter and use a higher voltage. The caps can take 450V, so charge them to 400V.
YO u need to make the infrared sensors work together with arduino to sence the projectile speed so it can automaticaly edjust the timings for much better efficiency
your idea is really cool, but for a noob like me, do you know any links to explain that, or with concrete examples with downloads of gerbers etc..
it already looks so complicated without your idea LOL
thx for your comment.
This is really an amazing project!
👍👍👍
How accurate would it be? Could you add rifling?
Wonderful job! I don't think I will build it but it was fun watching you do it. I am certain at some point in the project I would slip and get zapped.
I just keep thinking what if somehow you also added a coil around the projectile and powered it during travel according to the static coils magnetic field. Would it double the forces on the projectile?
Would it be possible to use a 100s battery as the high voltage source, to get faster recharging times?
Could this also be done with a round channel and, for example, send the ball through the same accelerators in three turns?
Freaking awesome dude!
May be i will try this on day❤
Inspired by this video, I tried to make my own coil gun and initially it worked but then my sketchy HV generator blew up. After remaking it I accidentally used wire that was too thin and upon pulling the trigger it blew up again. I was hoping the full 320VDC was discharged from the 2200μF capacitor but there was still 60VDC left. This was just a single stage coil gun lol
At 6:25 , do you mean smaller as in the coil should be shorter or do you mean smaller as in having a smaller diameter? Or both?
Now that is friggin awesome
How long does it take to charge the capacitors after you shoot it?
Can you cover the metal in rubber and use it as a airsoft gun with proper protection, or use rubber with metal dust mixed in it.
I am already heating up my soldering iron. I made the first version you designed. I used coils from old tattoo guns. They where cheap and worked way better than the ones I tried to wind by hand. It was a lot of fun and now I have a project for the extra parts. Thanks again for another outstanding video.
Oh such a good idea!!! I have like 5-6 old tattoo machines, each with 2 coils... Thanks!
I would like to have your Altium design PCB design file
Likewise what is the scope for coil based High Voltage spark burner
You could mount the capacitors diagonally, so they point downwards to the left. This way, there would be space to install another row (which would then point downwards to the right). Technically, you could even mirror this setup and build it on top as well. Then you'd have 40 capacitors. Each shot would take 20 minutes to charge, but at least you'd have the maximum volts available that can be mobilized on this form factor. Whether this makes sense in the end, or if a huge arc of light comes out alongside the projectile at the front, I can't say for sure :D
How do you get the bullet for the Coilgun?
Where would I be able to get the 3d file for yhe coils?
i hope u keep working on these
Wow, that's insane
You can make worl pattern with the help of 3D printing of that transparent tube and same goes for projectile so when you use it for long distance it will experience minimum air drag
Se puede comprar el kit ?
If you had a longer coil like 10cm or 20cm and longer projectiles will it have worse performance?
another question for you. i am doing your project and everything makes sense except for the volt generator. the link you have on your website is a bit different then the one in your video. would you be able to explain where the imput/output would be on the one that is on your website?
Check here: ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sef89e3bafc0b4aae8597e65c02f84f802/Inversor-Boost-Step-up-Board-de-500W-1000W-DC-12V-a-AC-220V-380V-420V-transformador.jpg_.webp Just connect the 380V to your couldun high voltage input...
All coils are in placed on same distance, after starting 4 coil, you should increase the distance between next to next coils, it will more accelerate the speed of bullet
Great improvements! Such a cool project
Thanks :)
@@ELECTRONOOBS Altium designer looks like EasyEDA on steroids.
I would like to have your Altium design PCB design file@@TheUnknownCatWarrior
I would like to have your Altium design PCB design file@@ELECTRONOOBS
What is the symbol Q3G in the circuit diagram?
How long is the projectile able to flY?
awesome man
good work
you got me bro, new sub for you.
cool project
Can you use same 10 stage on its opposite side like top of each other one inverted section like =======
Day 1 of requesting to make a professional looking reciever for the stm32 based rc transmitter and improve the transmitter itself
hey thanks for the awesome video, i just have one question. where did you get your bullet/projectile?
Is just a stainless steel rod cut into 15mm long bits...
Que cambio, se ve potente! Me hace acordar al arma del Fallout
Damn that's very cool.
I'm sure you've seen those T12 style soldering stations, there are kits available you can buy for very cheap and use it with any 12-24v PSU. You can even use the original Hakko tips. The T12 style tips make soldering much easier because the heating element is very close to the tip unlike the older style soldering irons.
I have one. Is not more powerful than my station. Is still not enough for those big pads...
@@ELECTRONOOBS Ah I see, that's a lot of copper then lol
If you can get your hands on a slowmo camera it would be neat to see if you can optimize the coil activation sequencing so they all accelerate the coil optimally.
Awesome!
is the step file available somewhere?
Dude, that's some awesome sxxxt you've been doin' here ;)
I have to say iI loved the modularity of the first version, despite the inconvenience of having to solder. But I reckon it's way more efficient this way.
Thx for sharing, you have one more subscriber which may not account to much... but it's yet a sign you prolly did a good job :D
You could add a magazine and auto loader. this could help with the fear of reversing the projectile and you could hide the batteries inside of each magazine.
How many speed??
Protip for the heat soak... hot air gun. Preheat station is ok too but I find the guns more versatile. Just warm the area around the joint to "good and uncomfortable" and the solder will flow much better with less juice from the iron.
I wish this was a kit I could buy and assemble easily, would be a fun toy.
Maybe making a feeder for ammunition would be awesome.
First of all, great work, but the first design was better for me because you are in control of the number of stages. But personally, I think it would be better to use fewer turns, a larger wire diameter, and a capacitor with a capacity of 1000uf It will give you enough power. Personally, I worked on a similar project consisting of only four stages, but slightly larger capacitors. Frankly, the power is enormous and terrifying.
What's number turns has coil in your project?
I love these kind of projects, but I always wonder if there is some way of rifling the barrel so the projectile spins and becomes more accurate?
Not really, rifling works with powder weapons because the lead making the projectile is kinda soft, and the insane acceleration makes the bullet expand into the rifling and spin.
However lead isn't ferromagnetic and thus can't be used as a projectile. Ferromagnetic projectiles are too hard to fit in a rifling.
That's actually one reason armies aren't that seriously working on magnetic rifles
You could use Ferris metal dipped in lead, then use a CNC machine to make the projectiles the correct diameter then add rifling then you would lose the tumble
See how the VW VR6 engine manages to put 6 cilinders on a small space. Do the same thing with the capacitors, alternarting them, and keeping them as close as possible.
Try to minimize the distance between each coil, so you minimize any friction loses between them.
Also, IMHO, dont use detectors, create a time-table on when should each coil fire, and tune them until you reach the maximum projectile speed.
What is the efficiency of the gun? What percentage of the energy spent is converted into kinetic energy of the bullet?
You need to sell this as a complete kit in a box.
I'd by it.
adding a resistor to discharge the capacitor after turning off the gun could be great security too; never know if the capacitors are not fully discharged after the shot
im not scientist or anything but would turning all coils on and turning them off as the bolt passes the threshold not ad to the force on the bolt as it travels more effectivly ?
I think each coil is turning on and off independently and not all at once
Awsoooome! If you make an electronic kit i will probably buy it!! And if you need help to make the version3 i will be glad to help on the 3d model of the case.
your video upload is synchronized with Great scott
Did you wind your coils you self? And did you wind every layer the same way?
I.e from left to right?
And NOT
layer1 left to right,
layer2 right to left,
layer3 left to right? Ect?
If 10 layers were all just left to right wound the magnetic field of the coil would be ten 10x as strong,
If 10 layers were wound back and forth the magnetic field would be as strong as only 1layer.
I noticed a bit of droop/floppiness.
Some aluminum rods along the length of the barrel mount might provide some structural improvment. Also, copper tape can work when solder doesnt.
Yes, without the 3D enclosure the PCB can't hold itself, is too heavy. The enclosure ads support!
Those caps and coils gotta have a fair bit of gravity to em!
You can cool the thyristors by bending them outwards from the PCB and putting a long heatsink on them
Would it be better to line the coils up with increasingly bigger spaces in between instead of having them all spaced the same distance apart?
Try to figure out a way to hold a projectile without it sliding itself into the barrel which will effect in shooting prematurely - it's even more dangerous than those 450V. With current design you cannot hold a coilgun vertically (to not aim to anything around you) withouth this issue. I couldn't figure out anything, maybe you can.
Try using 40v battery pack that goes into cordless power tools to increase charge time and have quick release for swapping battery pack
top men 💥💥💥💥💥
You could increase the size of the projectile and launcher. If it is an over the shoulder similar to the projectile launcher that is part of the "bazooka jo" bubble gum name I think you could have a viable launcher that could possibly be used to hunt deer ( of course only to feed your family.). I like your videos please keep going 👍.
Interested in knowing range and penitration effectiveness at different ranges
It would like great inside a MA5B Halo Weapon shell. The display would be the voltage indicator.
Aun no se pueden ver tus videos en español
nice