One Ingredient we use in EVERY BEER | Ascorbic ACID and why AsS-KorBz makes better beer
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- In response to the high demand for an ascorbic acid breakdown, Peter takes you to brew school...
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Thanks for a video on this topic. Just to get things straight about what oxidation and reduction is.
It's simply the transfer of an electron one way or the other.
- Oxidation means a compound gives off an electron, by donating it to another compound
- Reduction means a compound absorbs an electron, which is to accept an electron from an electron donor
So what is oxygen (dioxygen, O2) doing? It's a great electron acceptor, not a donor, and so when it oxidizes, it will itself be reduced.
Reductones and enediols (like ascorbic acid) are therefore electron donors, not acceptors as mentioned here. They make electrons readily available for O2 to accept, so O2 doesn't steal electrons from other compounds like hop oils (mostly unsaturated), which would otherwise decompose and we get unhappy taste buds
C'mon, you gotta mention OILRIG when talking about this stuff!!!
Seriously though, your comment is great, thanks!
Would still really like to see a blinded comparison. There's a lot of science that theoretically make sense, but in reality creates negligible differences. I'm not knocking it, and may even try to get my hands on some. But with many brewing/winemaking techniques, it's hard to really know if it's worth it without blinded comparisons.
I'd suggest making a side by side batch (one with and one without), and do triangle tests early on after packaging and then again after a few weeks/months of aging.
I've noticed a huge uptick in quality of my ipa's since i've started using Asskorbs.
It's here! IT'S HERE! The Genus Asskorbs video is here! NOT a drill people! This is what we spent all that time on the livestream training for! Thanks for the great info as always :)
Awesome explanation and discussion! Keep it coming
I drank every time you said ascorbic acid. Now I’m dead.
Thanks to you guys I use it in pretty much in every hoppy beer I make now, once I finally understood how it works compared to things like sodium metabisulfate I never looked back.
Edit: Definitely would love to see more videos like this that dig into the biochemistry of beer. Always appreciate you sharing your expertise with these subjects. Cheers!
i got some hops that didnt fall to the bottom and are clogging up my beer line, so i need to transfer it to another keg that has a filter on the outpost, can i add some ascorbic acid in the keg before i transfer it to help preserve the color and hops? (it does have crystal 15l in it
Even on the Treehouse IPA that you loved sooooo much???
When are you adding it? If I'm pressure fermenting into keg?
I add it to every mash now. @@4rdzlla
Used it once by accident to reduce the mash PH instead of lemons , the beer ended so punchy and flavored.
I decided to add more on the next batch , the idea was to make a kind of sporty beer (Ascorbic acid is also known as chemical Vitamin C ) and it gave that little acidity , emphasize that C02 gaz fizz a little. That s my impresion. Will try again staying around 3-5 grammes. Thank you for sharing!
Cheers!
I've had good results with 3 grams and just a trace of metabisulfite around .15 grams when transfering over to a corny. Thanks for making our beer better. I can now leave a NEIPA on tap for a couple months and not feel like I'm wasting it if I don't drink it in a couple weeks. Cheers!
3-5 grams per 5 gal?
@@oldcrispiboi That's correct.
Ascorbic acid or vitamin C is destroyed by light and heat. It is fully inactivated at 30 degrees Celsius. The mash is done at 65 degrees Celsius so it is safe to say that it has absolutely no effect in the mash or in the boil, because the heat destroyed it. I put it in at the bottling stage, where it does not come in contact with heat or light.
@@TheAlchemistsBrewery It does not automatically get destroyed at 30C. If that were the case, it would not even survive the stomach as it gets warmed up to body temperature 😅
@@zhdfzfjvzrtuztuzt yes, that's a good point. But I was citing a scientific article that was measuring vitamin C from vegetables and cooking methods.
Nice, great video! Answers a lot of questions that recirculate in my mind every time you guys mention ascorbic acid. Do rice hulls next!! lol. Like, wtf, how much and how to and what are they doing? Thanks!
Good idea!
killer shirt peter!
Love this kind of stuff. Quick and informational!
Thanks for the great video! I’ve been struggling to find a way to prevent oxygenation in my NEIPAs. Will definitely try this. I would love it if y’all did a video digging even more into the science behind it. Still trying to decide if I should add to mash vs at the end of fermentation (or both).
Woah.. the long awaited ascorbs vid!
We did it!
FYI: ass-KOR-bic acid, and it is definitely the same thing as vitamin C
Great! I wanted to know all this but struggled to find the answers :)
Great info , like all your videos,keep us all entertained,,
What did he say ? Just kidding … great info I started using absorbs when I first started watching you guys !! Always straight up good info . Thanks guys !!!
Fun fact, it IS, "the kind of ascorbic acid you find in your pills".
This is amazing. Thank you. I've seen people add this when dry hopping. Is this worthwhile it's also been added to the mash?
A couple of questions.
1) Can you use the Vitamin C pills like from Nature Made, Nature Bounty, etc? I noticed they are usually in 1g pills, so thought I could just do 1g per gal crushed into the mash. Some Vitamin C tablets list other ingredients so thought I'd ask.
2) I thought about 1g per gal. Could you just do half in the mash and half at packaging? I ask for those beers that might be exposed to oxygen when doing a large dry hop.
Great information! Thanks for sharing. Cheers 🍻
The format for this should of been a TED talk
Asoboric acid starts to denature at temperature as low as 86 F and significantly at temperatures from 140 - 170 F. Doesn't this mean that the anti oxidative properties of asoboric will be compromised when adding it during the mash? I always recommend adding asoboric acid when dry hopping or with the priming solution if you are bottle conditioning, 0.1g/litre is enough and I had great success using it and it unequivocally works.
Ascorbic
i just started adding O2 to my ferment, now you're telling me it's bad, making beer is difficult.
o2 during fermentation is desirable for yeast health. It's post fermentation that you don't want any o2. With a liquid yeast, always add o2 and with a dry yeast, just pitch it in.
Questions. What about adding ascorbic acid when opening a fermenter to dry hop. Would this help with oxygen that gets in during that process? Also, when packaging, should it be added to the beer in the fermenter or into purged keg? Finally, just sprinkle it in or dissolve in some water first? Thank you for this video!!!!
Just sprinkle, and yes it is an O2 scrubber you can add right into the keg when transferring in
Does 3-5g ascorbs in a typical 5gal brews mash affect PH? Im using RO water treated with phosphoric acid and then cacl/gypsum in the mash pretty much following Gordon Strong ideas.
No Ass-Korbz is a relatively weak acid so don't worry about it affecting mash pH.
good lord Peter, lookin hella jacked
Two questions:
1) If using it both in mash & at packaging would you use 3g to 5g for each stage? So 6g to 10g total
2) when adding at packaging is it ok to just add the powder? Or does it have to be disolved in water first. My preference would be to just add powder since adding water would have disolved oxygen
Yes and yes!
So would I add 3g at the mash then say 2g before bottling or skip it for bottling.
I would like to know this answer as well.
Would you add ascorbic acid to mash and packaging, or just focus on the mash?
Does ascorbic acid lower mash pH if you add it to the mash water?
This is a super old video... but, what about Indian Pale Lagers? I am considering using 3g in the mash and then 2g in the keg when transferring.
So of course the one comment about copper won't show the reply so sorry for the duplication---would the use of a copper wort chiller in the kettle counteract the AsS-KorBz and turn it into a super oxidant like hydrogen peroxide?
thanks for this
How much asskorbs should you use in packaging a 5gal batch?
about 5g for the whole batch is good
great videos guys! question: is 3- 5 grams per liter? thanks a lot
Per 5 gallons!
I use lactic acid in the mash. Will the use of ascorbic acid be a conflict? Can they both be used?
They can both be used - no conflict
Would it have any application in cider making?
3 to 5 grams per 5 gallons ?
It's an old video, so probably nobody reads comments anymore... But when adding to mash, are you using 3-5 grams per 5 gals of finished product? Or 5 gals of mashing water? Or maybe per 5 gals of mashing + sparging water?
Per finished product. Good question!
@@GenusBrewing Thanks! :)
Will the use of Ascorbic Acid affect secondary fermenting in bottles for carbonation?
Won't affect the fermentation but at that point just works as an O2 scrubber
When you state 3 to 5 grams in the mash would there be a volume formula based on the strike water volume? Or should I just dump in, less for less water and more for more water? Oh, sorry, didn’t see the last post, but thanks anyway
Do you have to add the ascorbic acid after mashing in? Or into the mash water? And why not in the boil?
I add it into the mash grain. Ascorbic acid denatures at high temperatures so it needs to spend time in the 150 degree mash to go through all it's processes before being boiled.
Hey teach , why does beer smith indicate under ascorbic Acid to use only with wine , do not use with beer it will give beer off flavor ?
Does the addition of ascorbic acid affect Thiols? If planning to use a Thiolized yeast, should I avoid using ascorbic acid until after fermentation/during packaging?
Great video. I have a question. We put the ascorbic acid in the mash and sparge water and then put the grains for mashing or when the mashing started ? Thank you a lot 😊
Old comment, but I think you’d want to add it to the mash itself after doughing in. Otherwise it may all be “spent” scrubbing the actual water of O2 rather than wort and grain. I’m no chemist though but typically I add it after doughing in and before recirculating, have noticed improvements in shelf life. I add it to all my beers now, a 1lb bag of this stuff is only 10 dollars and it lasts forever
Adding an antioxidant to the mash before fermentation seems counter intuitive since the yeast need the oxygen to ferment or am I missing something? Thanks for the great content as always!!!
Yes you are indeed missing something. Oxygen is always damaging your beer at ANY point in the brewing and packaging process. We only risk a small amount of damage at the moment of yeast pitch when the yeast will naturally take in the oxygen they need. The time that oxygen is in the wort at that point is very short.
@@BobbyFromNJ This is not true. Yeast STARTS aerobic and ends anaerobic. Oxygen is SUPER important in the initial stages of fermentation and yeast will become stressed and produce off flavors (or just die) if there is limited oxygen when fermentation is first starting. THEN it moves to anaerobic, usually about 1-2 days after vigorous fermentation starts.
@@Tense I suspect you only skimmed over what I wrote because we're aggressively in agreement. My point was that at yeast pitch is the only time we want oxygen.
How much do you use though?
Just a clarification on the amount of ascobic acid per volume beer.. you mentioned 3-5 grams.. may I assume thst is for 5 gallons? Thx
Yes that is per 5gal
hi guys, can I use it with a copper manifold in my mash tun ?
Can you do 3-5g during the mash and also add when dry hopping or adding gelatin? How much should be added for those additions? Can it be sprinkled since that wont be sanitized?
Thanks for the video. Sorry if I missed this piece of info, but does the ascorbic acid that you use contain EDTA? I have read that ascorbic acid in the presence of metal ions such as copper and iron can lead to the production of hydrogen peroxide. Does this run the risk of promoting staling reactions within a beer rather than preventing them? In this case, I am assuming the ascorbic acid is being added to beer after fermentation or in the brite tank. The source of my info is mainly from the Handbook of Brewing by Stewart, Russel, Anstruther.
Ascorbic acid should not contain EDTA. Peroxide formation can occur with ascorbic acid and copper ions, but not in acidic conditions to the best of my knowledge. Iron also inhibits peroxide formation. YT tends to remove posts with links, but the source of my information is "Iron prevents ascorbic acid (vitamin C) induced hydrogen peroxide accumulation in copper contaminated drinking water". Overall, I expect ascorbic acid to act as an anti-oxidant in beer. Were that not the case, I think it would have been noticed by now.
Can you do it at both stages? mash and bottling?
Anoth video you did when talking about ascorbic acid, there was different types to use.
What is the correct type?
More beer brewing science videos!!!
In addition to ascorbic acid, can I add Brew Shield? what is the difference in both?
Is it ok to add during dry hopping?
Luv the Braj shirt. Does 3-5grams scale up for larger batches??
Should be pretty linear- but also it's a hard ingredient to overdo
Use it in the mash and when kegging, or just the mash?
Why use Ascorbic acid? Won't Lactic acid deliver the same results? Or is Ascorbic purely used as an anti-oxidant?
Purely antioxidant - it is a relatively weak acid compared to Lactic
@@GenusBrewing thank you very much 🙏😁.
3-5grams per Xltr?
It is for 5 gal, mr President.
@@eachday5705 Amazing, not many people know that.
You must have a very high IQ, and more.
Do you have to declare it on an ingredients label if it is detroyed duriing the boil?
I'll ask my wife, she works in food labelling regulation.
She said if it's not present in the final product then it would probably be considered a 'processing aid' and does not need to be listed.
Check out EU regulation 1169/2011 page 14.
This is not proffesional advice, lol.
@@Audio_Simon Thanks I gussed so its a bit like Gelatine as a 'processing aid'
@@clanbakers3798 Wife works in food not drinks so not 100% sure, but that seems likely.
So are you saying you can't use vitamin C tablets? Damn I bought like 1,000 of them! 🤣 Also, I noticed you can get calcium ascorbate and sodium ascorbate. They are both listed as ascorbic acid, which would you use? Or is the distinction just for vitamin c tablets?
This guy looks exactly like Josh Allen
3-5 g for how many liters of wort?
Wait I've put vitamin c in my beer for 6 months now and it wasn't the actual thing?
Not Reinheitsgebot approved.
Fuck the Reinheitsgebot. PVPP, asbestos, etc are allowed in accordance to the Reinheitsgebot. Most German Brewers hate the Reinheitsgebot. It's just a marketing stunt that UNESCO did not buy. No cultural heritage for german beer
Cool
Is there any scientific evidence that adding vitamin C to beer helps to reduce oxidation?
Where is that bearded guy with the sexy baritone voice? Miss him
You are like a knowledge machine ... you're the carbon based google.
My water at home comes out of a spring as has a pretty high PH. I use two limes to bring it down to 5.2, which is 23 mg of AA. So should I ad more or is this close enough?
Geeez buy a tripod ;)
3-5G per gallon?
It's per 5 gallons.
@ 5:15
that damned mosquito
Learn how to pronounce ascorbic…
Go away.
doooood. What's the deal with the cutting to different views? So distracting. great content as always, but dang. if I wanted to see tons of fast cuts for no reason I'd watch homebrew 4 life.