I used to say, "Playing a Sub Rogue is like playing Chess, with daggers." Avenger One shows us, Dogfighting in Star Citizen is like playing 3D Chess, with guns (or Torpedoes), at 600 m/s.
Dumbfire strikes are the kind of gameplay I've wanted from Star Citizen for nine years. I'm really hoping they follow through with working in some kind of dive-bombing mechanic like they described back in 2015 with the Gladiator flight-ready release.
I do this during XT events with a Tali all of the time, if you let it lock the NPC Idris always uses countermeasures before it can hit. I typically get to where I'm within about 500m or so where it doesn't attempt to lock even if you have the Idris targeted (or at least didn't last time I did it) and basically deliver the torps with the ship, there have been several times where I bumped the Idris, (I always approach from behind, if you get close enough the turrets can't reach you.) Never tried it with an Eclipse, but it looks like it would work just as well.
Great video A1, really well explained. Was just thinking if you switch the vector indicator to "always on" or similar setting ingame, even more accuracy could be achieved. Not by much but every little could help I suppose.
@@TheStaniG don't know ppl tht fully remove it, just know there is a setting to make it fade close to centre like A1 has in the vid, I have mine always visible with no fade, just got used to it tht way now.
If it’s dumb fired there should be no target lock on or missile lock warning at all. I’ve never had it happen to me so I’m not sure but it sounds like an ultimate stealth hit.
Thanks A1 for your detailed explanation. It means that CIG are going to have to beef up heavy corvettes and capitals guns and armaments to be able to last in any battles to come. 5 Eclipses in formation can take out just about anything in a single run. Capitals are going to need to be able to 2 or 3 shot an Eclipse to have any chance of survival. And the strategy should be to distract them while the stealthy Eclipse squadron sneaks in and dumb fires torps. IMO corvettes and capitals are sitting ducks. 5 size 9s should be able take them out but they need to be OP with guns and missiles. Large rail-guns and lasers should have high velocities to be able to hit whats on target while limiting RPS to keep it fun. Numbers should be needed to distract as well as Capitals shooting Capitals in order to bring one down, unless an Eclipse squadron can sneak in. If they are detected with time then the corvette or capital should be able to pick them off like flies. It needs to be a a real challenge requiring sacrifice and strategy. Otherwise why would anyone want to fly in one! Crew in one of these ships should feel a sense of invulnerability while still having a real fear of the Eclipse and Retaliator.
I see what you mean but with the implementation of armor, physicalized components and all that, ships wouldnt just straight up explode unless you hit the right things. I think more than likely, capital ships would be disabled and boarded a long time before it straight up goes nuclear like the idris does now.
@@TinTin0599 Agreed. My hope is that the flight model change that's coming will fix some of the tracking issues as well. Bringing weapon fire velocities and ship velocities closer together. As long as they don't cut weapon velocities as well. I hope also that it will be very difficult to disable corvettes and capitals. They need to be somewhat unstoppable except with equally matches ordnance.
I think all torpedo's should be blind fire, to differentiate them from missiles and truly anti capital weapons. Also make them immune from flare countermeasures. Torpedo's need to be detected shot down instead. Or maybe a EMP can set them off. Maybe a dedicated torpedo system can be given to more advanced ships or torpedo's can be customize on the ground. Set the drop distance, ignition timer and arm timer. Maybe even explosion distance. To truly create a torpedo operator role. I am a proud owner of a polaris with a dedicated torpedo room so I hope there is stuff to do there for my crew other then looking at the torpedo's. The thing the should not do is making torpedo's just large slow missiles with bigger numbers.
Makes one wonder if this is how all torpedoes should work in this game…balanced accordingly. That way they are different from missles and have their own attack process.
Eh, maybe. WWII naval torpedoes had limited guidance and such. I think a better option might be slightly more powerful torpedoes without guidance, or guided with slightly less oomf.
Because flares spoof missles off, hitting players with locked missles are pure RNG, dumb fire is 100% effective just requires skill, also the Idris is just an example the intent is to use this to fight players
@@Avenger__One sorry to nitpick, but when you said 100 meters I thought, wait what....the drop is the length of a Perseus? I also wonder is there a different drop for different sized torps or are they all the same?
I'm going to have to experiment with my Gladiator. I've had some luck making Idris shots while stationary at closer ranges during the Xeno events, but I never really worked out drop or point of aim. I do know that the s5 torpedo has a higher top speed than the s9, so that might affect ideal launch speed too. (Or maybe not, since the physics engine is still kinda funky in some areas.)
What you suppose to shot? Abandoned big ship in the ground? I don’t really have that much experience in combats but gladiys steroid every ship in that game isn’t it ?
Ugh the fact that firing a rocket that is in line with the thrust vector could slow something down really effing bugs me. As rockets in vacuum speed up according to their relative velocity that's why things have specific impulse. That's another thing I'm not a fan of in SC if I'm constantly burning fuel I should be constantly accelerating. Like I get why it's capped and agree with it to an extent but the space nerd in me hates it
@@Frostknight231 they do but its the game physics/mechanics vs real real world phsyics. in actual space as long as you are throwing reaction mass out the back you will always continue accelerating. games like SC have to introduce hard speed caps that wouldnt actually exist irl.
Good sir, I have recently entered the realm of Star Citizen and desire to become at least slightly better than dog shit at shop combat. How might someone like me join your discord so that I may repeatedly get my ass pummeled by the Avenger Squadron in training until one day when I'm good enough to score a hit, or maybe even a kill?
![[EP 00 PART1] DUAL STICK CONTROL! what I use and why](/img/n.gif)
"His computer's off. Luke, you switched off your targeting computer. What's wrong?"
I was just thinking about that lol
I used to say, "Playing a Sub Rogue is like playing Chess, with daggers."
Avenger One shows us, Dogfighting in Star Citizen is like playing 3D Chess, with guns (or Torpedoes), at 600 m/s.
very well said!
Dumbfire strikes are the kind of gameplay I've wanted from Star Citizen for nine years. I'm really hoping they follow through with working in some kind of dive-bombing mechanic like they described back in 2015 with the Gladiator flight-ready release.
My favorite video of yours so far. Keep up the great work. I'll be applying this technique this weekend and I look forward to it.
I was just wondering about this very process last night, perfect timing Avengerrr ONE! Thank you!
I do this during XT events with a Tali all of the time, if you let it lock the NPC Idris always uses countermeasures before it can hit. I typically get to where I'm within about 500m or so where it doesn't attempt to lock even if you have the Idris targeted (or at least didn't last time I did it) and basically deliver the torps with the ship, there have been several times where I bumped the Idris, (I always approach from behind, if you get close enough the turrets can't reach you.) Never tried it with an Eclipse, but it looks like it would work just as well.
Great video A1, really well explained. Was just thinking if you switch the vector indicator to "always on" or similar setting ingame, even more accuracy could be achieved. Not by much but every little could help I suppose.
Wait.... people REMOVE their vector indicators??? Why?
@@TheStaniG don't know ppl tht fully remove it, just know there is a setting to make it fade close to centre like A1 has in the vid, I have mine always visible with no fade, just got used to it tht way now.
@@TheStaniG by default the vector indicator is set to fade, most people just don't change that setting to always on.
I learned this technique from X-Wing vs TIE Fighter almost 20 years ago. Although it didn't have torpedo drop or inertia inheritance.
Yeah yeah, but seriously.:We all know you had Ben Kenobi whispering in your ear in these clips.
So, noobish question. Dumb fire torpedos just so countermeasures can't be used on them or is there another purpose?
If it’s dumb fired there should be no target lock on or missile lock warning at all. I’ve never had it happen to me so I’m not sure but it sounds like an ultimate stealth hit.
Thanks A1 for your detailed explanation. It means that CIG are going to have to beef up heavy corvettes and capitals guns and armaments to be able to last in any battles to come. 5 Eclipses in formation can take out just about anything in a single run. Capitals are going to need to be able to 2 or 3 shot an Eclipse to have any chance of survival. And the strategy should be to distract them while the stealthy Eclipse squadron sneaks in and dumb fires torps. IMO corvettes and capitals are sitting ducks. 5 size 9s should be able take them out but they need to be OP with guns and missiles. Large rail-guns and lasers should have high velocities to be able to hit whats on target while limiting RPS to keep it fun. Numbers should be needed to distract as well as Capitals shooting Capitals in order to bring one down, unless an Eclipse squadron can sneak in. If they are detected with time then the corvette or capital should be able to pick them off like flies. It needs to be a a real challenge requiring sacrifice and strategy. Otherwise why would anyone want to fly in one! Crew in one of these ships should feel a sense of invulnerability while still having a real fear of the Eclipse and Retaliator.
I see what you mean but with the implementation of armor, physicalized components and all that, ships wouldnt just straight up explode unless you hit the right things. I think more than likely, capital ships would be disabled and boarded a long time before it straight up goes nuclear like the idris does now.
@@TinTin0599 Agreed. My hope is that the flight model change that's coming will fix some of the tracking issues as well. Bringing weapon fire velocities and ship velocities closer together. As long as they don't cut weapon velocities as well. I hope also that it will be very difficult to disable corvettes and capitals. They need to be somewhat unstoppable except with equally matches ordnance.
Would a modified weapons convergance range effect this method? I have mine set to 100m for shooting players on the ground.
There are about to be swams of eclipses in the PU, dumbfiring on everyone haha
Badass as always! Taking large ships out is always a rush! Thanks for the video! Also is the drop height about/same with the tali?
Damn the Speed, Full Torpedos a head !!! Wait ! What ?🤩🤣
Fun fact That's a quote about sea mines which used to be called torpedoes!
Your MSpaint skills have improved MASSIVELY! 😅🙌🏻
I think all torpedo's should be blind fire, to differentiate them from missiles and truly anti capital weapons. Also make them immune from flare countermeasures. Torpedo's need to be detected shot down instead. Or maybe a EMP can set them off.
Maybe a dedicated torpedo system can be given to more advanced ships or torpedo's can be customize on the ground. Set the drop distance, ignition timer and arm timer. Maybe even explosion distance. To truly create a torpedo operator role.
I am a proud owner of a polaris with a dedicated torpedo room so I hope there is stuff to do there for my crew other then looking at the torpedo's.
The thing the should not do is making torpedo's just large slow missiles with bigger numbers.
Makes one wonder if this is how all torpedoes should work in this game…balanced accordingly. That way they are different from missles and have their own attack process.
Eh, maybe. WWII naval torpedoes had limited guidance and such. I think a better option might be slightly more powerful torpedoes without guidance, or guided with slightly less oomf.
dude you're like the growlingsidewinder of star citizen and I love it.
PingVision™ Coming soon.
Will this apply to size 5 torps as well, say for the Gladiator ?
Yes and 1 s5 will kill a ballista
Thanks for the video!
Smart I never imagine that possible thanks
Why not just lock the target? In the Idris shots, there was plenty of time to gain a lock.
Because flares spoof missles off, hitting players with locked missles are pure RNG, dumb fire is 100% effective just requires skill, also the Idris is just an example the intent is to use this to fight players
Thank you
100 meters? are you certain about that? It seems a lot more than I would expect, seams 10 meters would be more on point
Let me go get an exact measurement, the ships in SC are abnormally large also, you would be surprised
100 meters is about the length of an American football field. 10 meters sounds closer, if even that.
@@Avenger__One sorry to nitpick, but when you said 100 meters I thought, wait what....the drop is the length of a Perseus? I also wonder is there a different drop for different sized torps or are they all the same?
Are you using the eye tracker by chance? or ? love how fluid it is
Great video bro.
Popcorn time 🤌🏼
Wicked… love the trail form launch… can ships like the harbinger use this same reference? Particularly for ground targets…since the size5 torp is meh
I'm going to have to experiment with my Gladiator. I've had some luck making Idris shots while stationary at closer ranges during the Xeno events, but I never really worked out drop or point of aim.
I do know that the s5 torpedo has a higher top speed than the s9, so that might affect ideal launch speed too. (Or maybe not, since the physics engine is still kinda funky in some areas.)
I bind ping to fire right now because the atmosphere bounties in the dark it keeps the ground visible so I don't have to focus on the elevation
Utter big brain.
i hope this is the one i waiting for
badass. i've been wondering how to do this
What you suppose to shot? Abandoned big ship in the ground? I don’t really have that much experience in combats but gladiys steroid every ship in that game isn’t it ?
Love this time to go grind some money on ert’s and practice
Does this also apply on retaliator?
Yes
@@Avenger__One ok thanks.
Thanks a lot
waaaaaaaaaaahhhhh i wanna fly internet spaceships :(
Ugh the fact that firing a rocket that is in line with the thrust vector could slow something down really effing bugs me. As rockets in vacuum speed up according to their relative velocity that's why things have specific impulse. That's another thing I'm not a fan of in SC if I'm constantly burning fuel I should be constantly accelerating. Like I get why it's capped and agree with it to an extent but the space nerd in me hates it
I thought they had modes for flight which would be the reason they aren't fast
@@Frostknight231 they do but its the game physics/mechanics vs real real world phsyics. in actual space as long as you are throwing reaction mass out the back you will always continue accelerating. games like SC have to introduce hard speed caps that wouldnt actually exist irl.
very nice
does this work with missiles as well?
All missles but your bore sight hit spots will be different
Cant wait for Polaris dive bombing lol
dive bomb in spaceeeeeeeeeeee
Still 50 50 on switching my tali for eclipse...
Argos or seeker avenger?
Great tips as always thank you!! P.S. finally first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good sir, I have recently entered the realm of Star Citizen and desire to become at least slightly better than dog shit at shop combat.
How might someone like me join your discord so that I may repeatedly get my ass pummeled by the Avenger Squadron in training until one day when I'm good enough to score a hit, or maybe even a kill?
And than i wonder, why even use the ares at this point :)
"fox3"
Too bad they won't self-acquire. Probably better they don't though, for gameplay.
Called a reticle
whatever you wanna call it, either way it functions as a nose zero
😁 I will be referring to it as nose zero for now on o7. Bro you seriously upped my pvp game. Till next time.