Why Milling Dry Wood SUCKS!
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2023
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#woodmizer - Jak na to + styl
Anyone who's split firewood will attest splitting green oak is pretty easy. You give it a year or two to dry/tighten up and it can be impossible!
Madrona is even worse!
Ever try eucalyptus??? That material can be so tight and so rigid as to defy even the 20 ton splitter!
Livin my best La Vida Loca here in south eastern Arizona
in bigger commercial mills they put summer cut logs they stack high and keep the logs from.drying out with sprinklers keeping them wet. also sawmills had mill ponds to float wet logs up a live chain out of the water and into the mill but the mills were up ad down saw or circular saw mills.
questions for the saw millers is adding dish washing soap or detergents lubricate the blade better. maybe check with nate in the out of woods channel and the guy who cuts umber from discarded cedar electric and t elephone poles that are dry. and possible pressure treated poles ot creosote treated poles.
@@mrwaterschoot5617 Soap keeps the pitch from building up on the blade. The big mill I worked at used a water soluble oil atomized in with water to cool and keep the pitch off the gang saws. We also had a ''flood'' valve that added a bunch of water when needed.
@@donnyarmstrong9559 I believe you but I don’t have first hand experience with eucalyptus so I’ll take your word for it! The other problem with Madrona is the grain is not straight like Doug fir or alder but twisted (don’t know if that’s the correct terminology) which means the pieces don’t stack for shit either. But you get it good and seasoned and it burns hot and burns a long time. Great for a wood stove and heating your house.
Very professional production thanks 👍
Old dry Walnut...a challenge.
Pretty valuable though...
Worth the extra tough sawing.
👍😁🇨🇦
I knew you often wanted to rough mill wood while wet as it is more likely to split if you let it dry before milling. I didn't realize it was harder on the band saws, but it does make sense when I think about cutting metal.
Always learn something about wood by honestly watching you guys!! Keep up the great work
Nice little sidelight in the milling universe!
Good job EM always a treat watching y'all's show,,, 🎉😊
Thanks Emerald for a very informative video awesome presentation, and great camera work Jade Keep up the good work.
"On this channel, we feel a greater understanding of the why and how leads to a fuller comprehension."
This little gem at the beginning of the video is worth the price of admission.
Good video Emerald, you are always so informative and give us great content. You have a great family and you guys work so well together. Take care.
Wow so pretty and thank you for the info about the effects dry wood has on the cutting process 😎👍
Wet vs dry something I never thought of and can remember why my cutting difficulty changed with harder woods. Learned something from someone younger-thanks!
Thanks again Boss man and family ❤️
Love the detailed education These Ladies produce here !
I've noticed that cutting hard wood with a chainsaw is easier when green, so it makes sense that the saw mill would be similar. As always, informative. Emerald, you could do videos on cleaning a cat box and would still get a bunch of likes. Keep up the good work!
What a great presentation video! Emerald you are a jewel in the rough, by that I mean you're so cool and calm while taping the video while working with dangerous machinery and handling giant logs that could easily crush you. I pray that that never happens; not even a splinter! Keep em coming...
EM you are becoming a wealth of knowledge. Great video.
Emerald you're getting very pro at presenting and the videos have this pro touch as well! Gratz !! just one detail: the water is not used as lubricant, but it's used to keep the temperature of the blade low .
This is an excellent channel, thanks for the content! You are one of the video masters of using your hands expressively and they add. to your well-chosen words. These videos are informative and a mini-class in how to market at a grass-roots level, there is real value in the few minutes it takes to view them
I’m amazed how articulate you are. Rare in most folks. 👍
Homeschooled
I'm a simple old man.......I like the intro with the rotating arms with index fingers...touches my heart...makes me smile....thank you.....defintely learned more about milling.
Wow! You explained that very well.
I'll see you back here _at next_ time too. 😁 Love the LCLY! So informative.
I miss my LT 15 I always had a water hose connected at the cut point and constantly kept the area of blade contact clean , made all the difference...🙏🙂
Great intro! Methinks the wood hardness scale was developed using samples of various species all kiln-dried to a constant moisture content. Myself likes milling dry wood for my furniture, especially for the distinct aromas that arise from various species, say black cherry (softly sweet) vs. black walnut (darker, almost cocoa) vs. white oak (tannic, leathery). But i wittter on ... Thanks for the efforts.
I love the information you give In your video's 👍🥰😊
Never really thought about it but makes sense. I once bought a bunch of 5/4 rough cut western red cedar boards milled from some old power poles. Doesn't get any dryer than that. I planed them down and used them to build some great looking Adirondack chairs.
Great content this Wiley old mason has learnt more from your family’s posts about wood than a mason should …keep up the -great work love that you use rain water to moisten your cuts your sustainability is faultless well done 🎉… can your family set up a branch in New Zealand?? Your whole family are wood geeks…. Love it ❤❤❤ keep them coming
Love the channel. Life long woodworker but never really thought much about how the S2S lumber and hardwood gets that way. I would love to have some of your hemloc to play with. Here on the West coast we are stuck with redwood. Keep up the great work. My 7 year old grandson loves watching the process.
Good explaination !!
Green wood may be easier to cut at the mill, but it also tends to move a lot more. Cupped, kerfed, split, and warped boards can be more difficult to deal with as an end user, especially if you are creating more delicate items like furniture, ornamentation or musical instruments.
exactly
Hola! Big words in the intro Professor Em! Good job! 👍👍👍. Hope you had a great weekend and the BossLady had a great MOMS Day! 👍👍👍👍
Emerald is quite the spokeswoman for the timber industry.
Great information
Nice explanation.👍😎
I cut some "dry" timber not long ago and I done a moisture test and it was between 20 to 23 percent moisture content. New blade on the mill but it didn't last long. Part of life as some would say
Oh, Emerald, if it weren't for you I wouldn't even know that there was a Janka Wood Hardness Scale. Tropical woods are wicked hard; hats off to the saw blade salesmen down in those Equatorial Zones. Surprisingly, not much difference between the White Ash 1320 and the Hard Maple 1450, but still important on the baseball field. More excellent lubrication, sawing and safety tips. Impressive gravity fed rain-water catch system, although in the Winter I am thinking it needs to be drained? Preppers, this channel is hotter than Smokey the Bear running from a forest fire out West! Forever thankful and grateful for every moisture hauling cloud and every inch of precipitation that waters our forests here in the East! Water is ridiculously heavy!
Love your vids. Think I have seen them all. What kind of camera do you use?
I’m jealous of the green wood you get to cut. Here in Iowa we don’t have much for lumber trees. Most of my stuff is sold for river tables and rustic projects. So I cut nothing green. It lays for at least a year and sometimes years. Tends to give it more character but depending on the species it’s much harder on the blades.
The best wood for making furniture has aged 3+ years in a dry place. Low moisture content prevents the wood from changing dimensions over time as it continues to dry. If wood with a higher moisture content is used in furniture, then the finished piece will not be sound and may pull itself apart.
@@gaiustacitus4242 I don’t have the room for my logs to age in a dry area. I’ve got over an acre of logs stacked to 10’. Being exposed to the elements brings on spalting and changes color in many species. Making for some very unique pieces. Once slabs are cut they are kiln dried. I haven’t had any problem yet with customer complaints or with the prices I’ve made. I’ll cross my fingers I guess.
Interesting. I am not a sawyer by any means, but I was building my first pro studio and knowing that what causes sound problems in most rooms is parallel walls. The sound want's to bounce back and forth over and over again. People actually spend thousands of dollars on sound treatment for their walls. But knowing about the parallel walls problem I reasoned that if I went to a saw mill and bought rough cut white pine boards and put them on the walls like lap siding is done outside, there would be no parallel walls in the studio. It worked like a charm! It was an incredible sounding studio. But, the mill would not mill the wood to half inch like I wanted, they only sawed 1" by 8" boards (which they cut more like 1.25" by 8" since it was green). So I got a 17" Grizzly band saw that I put 3/4" blades on and turned the wood up and resawed it in half making it closer to half inch thick. But I found the opposite to be true. The wet wood just ate the blades up and by the 8th or 9th board it would hardly cut, and the cuts were a real challenge since the blade would start to try to drift. Went thru a lot of blades lol! When I would get the occasional dryer piece of wood, it just went thru it like a champ and much faster. Since mine was a band saw and not a mill, there was no lube water etc. And I did not know to try anything like that then. CZcams was still many years off so I could not watch anyone else do it to learn how. But this is interesting that you find the opposite to be true tho you do have a true mill and I did not. However you achieve it, for those building a room for sound, use rough cut white pine and do lap siding in your rooms. You will not be disappointed, and it's a LOT cheaper than covering the walls with $200+ pieces of sound foam that don't cover much area at all, maybe a sq yard. Not to mention that when you absorb the sound, that isn't good either. Love your channel. My first love will always be music since I am a music man, but my second love is wood!
Good story... makes sense.
I once had to close down and sell off a sound studio. No one was interested in buying the sound foam that we had several thousands of dollars invested in. There was also no interest in the two 4 ft. x 8 ft. sheets of 1 in. thick glass we'd installed (at angles, of course) between the studio and the mixing room.
If you could have found someone with a planer then you could have planed the boards down to the thickness you needed. One smooth side and one rough or both smooth depending on what you wanted. You would have to take into account green or dry on the thickness since green would continue to shrink somewhat. The downside would be needing more boards. But then you bought a band saw and blades which was probably more than a few extra boards.
your green wood is harder to cut on regular bandsaw from a few things - among them is your choice of blades - You want a bigger tooth (3 TPI or so) blade with bigger gullets for green wood (stringy fibers clog up and overheat blade quickly) plus the pitch from pine lumber builds up on the blade and makes them dull (cleaning the blade can often be just as good as sharpening) You want to use somewhat finer tooth blades when cutting dried wood (but still larger gullets = less TPI) as you then have the dust to clear out of the cut.. much like using a chainsaw to mill lumber - cross cuts, regular chain goes through quickly , but when you try a rip cut with a regular chain you find it clogs up and bogs down fast.. which is where specialized ripping chains with their 5 degree top angle and skip tooth sequence comes into play... SO I'd bet if you had been using a different blade for your green wood, your bandsaw would have gone right through it easily.
@@briangustin3745 In my retirement I moved to a small cabin in NC and downsized my shop and now have a 14" Grizzly and love it. And you are correct as I have found out. The smaller jobs I do now are band saw boxes and sawing up the fallen Oak trees in the back yard for some smaller lumber using a jig I made. And yes, I use a 3/16" 4tpi blade for the boxes and a 3/4" 4 tpi blade for the resawing. They work like a charm, but then I never do the no. of feet at one time as I was doing for the studio. But what you say does seem to be true so I will chalk the first experience up to inexperience lol! That's why I began my story with the fact that I'm not a sawyer. But then, I've learned a lot from youtube which did not exist in 2000. I love youtube!! I don't really remember, but I think that first saw I was using a 12tpi blade which again would fit with what you are saying. Definitely the wrong tooth count for the job as I have since learned. But we did, even tho our spirituality was challenged (Lol!), get the job done and the studio sounded incredible. Well worth the effort and way way cheaper than the sound panels would have been, and I'm betting the sound was better too. I know it sounded as good or better than any studio I ever recorded in. Such a simple solution but I've never seen it done that way in any other studio but mine. On the other hand, if you've got the money, the panels would have been much easier even if not as good and that's probably why most people do it that way. Took a lot of hours to get it done. Anyone looking to do a studio or sound room, rough cut white pine put up on your walls like lap siding. You will not regret it! A mill like these ladies have could easily do the job for you at half inch on a special order and you would not have to do the resawing like I did. But you just didn't see that many back then. The guy who cut it for me used the traditional circular saw mill and you just sort of had to take what he was set up to cut for which was 1 by 8, tho it was slight bigger than that because it was being cut green.
Adding dish liquid to the water helps a lot!
Enjoyed your video how’s the weather there is it hot yet
Em, I’m looking forward to the carbide blades. Do they last any longer all things considered? Great topic.
Wonderful !
Frozen logs are also a challenge,then you need a Frost tooth to clear out the saw dust out of the kerf.
This is like watching a beauty Queen with a genius I.Q telling us the obvious but we are not listening becase we cannot look away ?
Good Information
Shortly after buying my mill I wondered if there was a better method to lubricate the blade than water. After much trial and error, I swapped out the water tank for a small gas tank, added a needle valve and a sight glass to the line and filled it with diesel fuel. I set it to drip once every 3-5 seconds (depending on the type of wood/moisture content/size of log etc.). I've been using this system for over 2 years now and I never looked back, a complete game changer for my mill. Aside from lubricating the blade better than water ever could, this tiny bit of diesel also keeps all the moving parts of the mill nicely lubricated (guide arm, belts, rollers etc.). Belts stay perfectly clean and blades run smoother, cooler and stay sharper longer. I've also never had a rusty blade since.
Yeah, dry wood fibers shrink and become more compact and or dense, making it harder to cut. And after your dad posted the picture with the nail about 2 inches inside the log, i now understand why you don't worry about finding them. Once you see the whole picture things start to make sense. Ladies thanks for sharing your day and have a great evening! TTFN
Hi, here in Texas I mill dead live oak trees that I cut in area. Use the carbide blades on them. Way better cuts and blade life before sharpening is so much more cuts it seems a better deal even with the cost of carbide blades.
I've been milling all the deadfalls and blowdowns on the property since moving here. I can't keep up with the damn things- it's amazing there are any trees left, given the number that seem to fall over.
I've been milling dry logs since I started, and it is really hard on the blades of this little mill I've got. Once in awhile I get a nice live white pine or hemlock, and it's actually a pleasure and "fun" to mill up when it's still live/green..
I've got oak and black walnut that has past the dry point I think, and it's as if it's turned to concrete it's so dense.
I dug up some walnut that had been thrown in a drainage ditch to stop erosion over 30 years ago. It was almost completely covered in mud. Those logs were only 20” to 25” in diameter but took a blade a log to mill. Threw sparks like I was grinding metal! Best looking walnut I have ever milled. Absolutely black no green or purples. Sold and shipped it to a lady in South Carolina she made river tables. Honestly wish I’d have just kept the wood.
Here in South Eastern Australia some people us tungsten carbide chainsaw chains to cut the harder Eucalyptus timber. Ive always found that changing the cutting angle on my chain teeth from 30 degrees to 25 degrees goes better through even Gray box Janka rating 15. Im wondering if grandpa could change the angle of the teeth on the band saw blade. And just have it aside for those dry wood jobs. Itd be a big job doing all those teeth though.
I am privileged to see that girls (young ladies) can do. You should be an inspiration to all girls to not to let other opinions hold you back.
Since it is already dried, do you adjust the thickness that you are cutting each board at?
Informative video. How long had it been since this walnut log was cut? Any estimates as to how long a log has to lie around to dry out? I have a 20" hickory log thst was cut two years ago. It has been outside on the top of other logs. Will a 20" log dry out in two years. Thanks for posting this.
Great topic. I talk to so many novice sawyers who mill old telephone poles and other dry wood, thinking it's better and easier, etc, but in reality it's the opposite and they are making it so much harder on themselves (and the mill). Sure, you don't have to season the wood afterwards, but that's never been a hangup for me since I have years of lumber stored up. The other problem with milling dry logs is that internal stresses have built up and set in the logs as the wood dried over the years, and you can get all sorts of weird behavior when slicing off thin boards, not to mention excessive dust. I only mill dry wood as a last resort. Green wood is so much easier to deal with all the way around.
Ahh but by milling just green wood you are missing out. As that wood sits in the weather and ages you get some of your best color. Like Spalted maple and you let walnut sit the heart bleeds into the sap wood so no more white, pin oak gets absolutely incredible looking when it spalts. I haven’t milled green wood in probably 17 years. It’s worth so much more money once it’s aged.
@@dontfit6380 Oh I definitely let walnut logs sit around so the color equalizes. That's my one exception. Not many people know about that trick, so you must be an old timer like me!
I love her pronunciation of the word "yard" in "lumber yard".
The hardwood sawmill in my neighborhood sprays their logs with water a few hours every day. And the hickory trees you mentioned are a favorite home for bats, which is why I don't have any hickory on any of my properties. Bats carry deadly rabies.
They also eat lots of mosquitos every night. I'd take a rabid bat over a mosquito borne disease any day. The bat will simply stop being able to fly and eventually die. I have a couple of bat houses on my back building. They help keep my yard lights pretty clean and really cut down on the number I see on my decks...ideally, you'd want a flock of Dragonflies for mosquito control, but they're really hard to tame!
@@Snarkapotamus You can have the rabies, I'll take my chances with the mosquitoes.
@@bluenetmarketing - Mosquitoes and the diseases they carry (Malaria, West Nile, Dengue, et al) have been responsible for more deaths in the history of humanity than anything else, even religion...AAMOF, almost half of all humans that have walked the earth have died from them. Sorry to hear about your fear of bats, but there's no comparison as to which is more dangerous...
I always assumed dry cut easier than wet-learn something new every day at LCLY-thanks, Em!
Em you have your work cut out for you, doing a good job though. Walnut is used for gun stocks although the blanks were cut green and in days before kilns the blanks were stored in a hot attic for a number of years before they were used Gunsmiths would inlet the rough stocks to fit the rifle or shotgun then the carving began I've seen beautiful wood stocks turned out. Reinhart Fajen had some of the best wood and some were aged over 20 years. With all the nails you have hit I would be hesitant to put through a plainer as those blade are very expensive to replace. Anyway good video as always. Jla
For a quick analogy, think about the difference between slicing through fresh soft bread versus hacking through some that is very dry and hard.
I was just wondering does it make the cut wider or thinner or does it change at all meaning more sawdust or less and I like your little explanations you're beginning to sound like a CEO 😁😉🐝
The ginger knowledge, beautiful.
I wonder if one could use some kind of radiowave to selectively heat/oxidize the iron nails.
Hello everybody, hope you’re having an amazing Monday and beginning of an awesome week ahead 😊☕️☕️☕️🇺🇸👍🏼
Never knew that Em? I know splitting frozen rounds is easier than unfrozen, we had 3 wood stoves growing up. LOL!
I always assumed drying the log before cutting would prevent warping.
But to my surprise I read that lumber can actually be too dry, causing it to split and causing it to warp anyway when the wood absorbs moisture after it's cut.
Is that true for all types of wood?
The old timers would often remove every other tooth on the band saws for hard wood. One tooth would cut the curf and the removed tooth would work as a raker tooth to help remove sawdust. Enjoy your videos.
Green shrinks and crack more correct. Dry is more stable therefor better for carving projects?
yes to both your questions. Hard wood, ie Cherry, better than soft wood. Jade, the rock, has 10 degrees of hardness. Soapstone is soft, and it does not burn.
Dry vs green. So true! Ask anyone who cuts wood with a chainsaw for heating. My favorite for heating is hedge/Osage orange. Dry hedge even causes sparks when cutting.
I’ve actually seen sparks cutting live hedge. Could have been sand in the bark I suppose. Surprised me. I’ve seen it a number of times cutting old fence posts.
Does green lumber not crack and split when it is drying?
Girl you keep on like this you are going to have every Hill-Billy, Red-Neck, Country-Boy and Swamp-Fox at your front door offering to do your chores. That going to be mighty funny.
I think I'll send my son on over next time he gets a break from the Navy. He's part hillbilly part/country boy.
How do you keep the large water tank from freezing in winter.
does cutting dry wood have any benefits like less cupping twisting etc...?
The older it gets the harder it gets. A 7 degree blade helps a little. Learn everything you can because knowledge is power. Great job ladies thank you.👍♥️♥️
No wonder my Alaskan chainsaw Mill fights me, pretty much all my trees are dried when I Live edge them
An Alaskan is how I started about 20 years ago. I to milled dried logs. Took me about a year and I’d had enough of that and bought a band mill. It’ll definitely make a man out of you!
When carbide blades first came out for portable saws they were pricey. But over time the manufacturing cost lessened until it's as cheap as the old standard blade. The same thing will happen with your milling band saw blades of carbon teeth.
What thickness were you cutting those boards? Looked thinner than 4/4 to me...
I hope you already know that i very much enjoy your channel and i think you are are great and fine people! I have no interest in correcting anyone or coming off as a know it all or as being critical of ANYONE. I to have to say that some of the stuff you come up with just cracks me up though. Not even close to correct information. But It doesn't bother me in the least. Its fun to see the stuff you come up with sometimes though.
Incorrect information bothers me a lot. Incomplete information bothers me a little. I'm not explaining because the girls are so cute. :)
If nails can be a problem, I'm suprised that a metal detecting module isn't intalled so that it can automatically stop the saw when metal is detected.
I believe millshops use a different angled saw blade tooth for dry wood.
Though cutting dry timber is not the same as cutting green timber it is not hard with the correct saw blades. Narrow set tooth blades are not a good design at best but even worse in tough conditions.
As for cutting trees that are known to contain metal, it's a mugs game unless the timber is exceptional.
Both swaged or stellite saws are the best option but not good if you hit iron or rocks.
Not sure if woodmizer supply for the LT40 but I think they do for the LT70 and 300.
You should see better results in green timber too.
The carbide blade is nice especially for white spruce ( a soft wood with a rock hard knot. :) I tried one out , liked it but my wallet didn’t.
for as many logs as you cut,,with nails metal in them,, get a good metal detector,,,i use them on my logs,,,it has saved a lot of blades,,,i metal detect logs that might be suspect where they came from,, i really like your videos,,,
Only you could make a dry wood machine sound extremely interesting to me.
Wow.
Different pitched teeth might help I know it does in wood chipping green vs dry.
Could you do something to explain about your debarker??
She has already made at least two videos on the debarker... maybe take a few minutes and search the videos list?
@@Gilles45 1st mention I recall was when it was broken. Doubtful the title gives a hint. But face it Umbra, we watch too many of these videos. LOL
Carbide blades are awesome you will see huge diffrence one you use them.
WoW gaining average of 1000 new subs a week !!!!awesome!!!!
silly perhaps a stupid question, with the heat created between the blade and the dry wood is there ever a chance of the wood smoldering and when stacked, catch fire like hay can or shoot off sparks when milling?
I throw sparks when milling aged dry walnut and white oak. Never had any problems with anything starting on fire. Sparks are out before ever touching the ground and there’s enough water on the log from the lube tank no chance of the log catching on fire.
WOW, she's had some book learnin too😂👍
Can't tell you how often I have to resharpen my chain when cutting dry locust it's worth it though when heating the house
How much does each blade cost?
Use saw glide! It is not to expensive and it will save your blades. Or you can use about a 25% mixture of mineral oil in your water and that will help also. Straight water just wears out your blades they need something with a lubricant property in it! Water has no lubricity!
137 thousand subscribers outstanding and love smelling all that fresh cut wood dry or wet
I concur😅
Hey Em, I got a 6' section of trunk (with a burl end) of mesquite that I cut down and 10 years ago. its about 14" diameter at the small end. It's been sitting out in the side yard for all that time, off the ground. You interested?
Livin my best La Vida Loca here in south eastern Arizona
Most original come-on line I've heard in a long while.
I don't know I have split wood and t depends on the wood
DANG WHERARE YOUY GUYS GIDING THESE LOGES JADE EMERALED
Where is your metal finding wand? That, and a couple tools would come in handy/