Gottlieb Bronco Pinball Restore - Part 3 - AX BX Relays, Player Unit, and more!
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2018
- BRONCO VIDEO PLAYLIST: • Gottlieb Bronco EM Pin...
We are going back to the garage! In this episode we will start back up on the Gottlieb Bronco Pinball Restore. This is an EM pinball machine from 1977. In this video we will check out the Ax and Bx relays and take a peek at the Player Unit.
Enjoy the vids? Consider supporting me! Thank you, John! youtube.streamlabs.com/johnsa... - Hry
I got a 76' Em Pin going that was in a similar state as yours. I found it best to not hunt for a problem till you clean all the contacts and at the same time adjust the gaps. You will save a lot of time. Also, use a scots pad and wd40 to clean the jones plugs. Those things get really crusty. Lastly, I found that several of the solder joints are weak and are a hair from breaking off.
ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE WD40 ANYWHERE IN AN EM PINBALL! This is extremely important as it causes a severe fire hazard. This can be found in many EM DIY documents on the internet. One example is here: "www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#lube".
Basically John, there is a Gottlieb reset sequence. It can be found here: "www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start". If you scroll down to "1975-1978 Gottlieb Start-Up Sequence." that would be the same reset sequence for your game. I haven't watched the entire video, but it sounds like if you push the "S" relay to start a game, does it go through the entire startup sequence? If so, the only issue you may have is with that coil not pulling in on the AX relay.
*smashes glass with metal bar* @5:15 "You wanna be very careful with the glass"
DOH!
john you can't chase problems with that thing until you go through every switch setup. as they age the spacers dry out and get loose and contacts are no longer made. is better is you take the board with all the relays out and go through all the relays cleaning them. clean the jones plugs with deoxit and use a drill with a 22 caliber bore cleaning brush. and sand the pins of the jones plugs. you are going to be chasing phantoms until you clean and regap all the switches. any corosion on the switches even if they will touch will cause problems if they do not conduct. this game is not like a solid state unit where one thing will be a eureka moment.
Excellent! Looking forward to this. Thanks John
I find these older games really fascinating to watch, if something is wrong you seem to just go through the motions to "unclog the drain" so to speak. Your not checking capacitors or chips or whatnot, it seems like most of the job is cleaning and greasing gears and cogs and straightening out what's bent so it all flows together to create the game.
Whilst I don't really enjoy playing this era of pinball machine there's still something fascinating about learning how they work. Keep up the good work John and I look forward to more videos in this series.
51:48 Is that your mosquito, John? Keep that thing on a leash!
Good catch... I was more focused on that Nixon Mission watch his wearing :)
That's Player 2
I like watching the vintage pin trouble shoot 👍🏻👍🏻. Something different is always good. Likes other said just clean it up and look it over, then go from there. As far as your neighbor mowing his lawn, that’s fine, at least he mows it unlike mine 😆
Your garage is looking super nice, John. I've been watching for years and didn't know that thing had windows!
Great video John. I like how rhythmatic the flippers, bumpers, and the scoreboard sounded when you were resetting and playing the Bronco.
Awesome seeing the bronco coming back
Hey John! I am just starting to watch your videos and just subscribed a couple days ago. Thank you for doing all of these videos!!! I really appreciate the insight to all of this and am going to start to try to fix my own arcades as well. Your channel is easily one of the best I have found for this genre.
I would like to note that most people will argue which is the best Penetrating oil. I have used this combo of ATF (automatic transmission fluid) and Acetone. If you have anything rusted this is supposed to be the best solution for rusted stuff. I use it for Satellite dishes that have been rusted and need to be repointed. I've used other Penetrating oil and this is one of the cheapest, and best solutions I have found. I figured I would try to help in any suggestion because You're helping me a great deal! I love the channel man please don't ever stop making videos!
Wow! Back to the Bronco! Booya👍👍 you’re garage looks great John!
We miss you John! I know your channel stopped growing but those of use that watch sure had a lot of fun!
So glad your back at the EM. I recently got a Williams Miss 0 (1969) and I have no idea.....ha ha ha. It’s my first EM.
Hey John! So Great to see you! I just picked up a Data East Laser War!
To clean the Jones plugs use a green 3M pad. You can use the same pad on the contacts on the steppers. Do not use any spray product on any pinball due to constant sparks. Personally I would go through and clean and adjust every contact first. I have a bunch of EM videos on my other page Marks Basement Arcade you can watch.
I seen someone use a glass erazer pen and also one of they fine paper files to clean all the contacts on one of those old pinball machines and the guy actually knew what he was doing
that is cool john
Great to see another video on this! I must admit, I thought we were never going to see it again.
I wonder if the different results when you first started are due to (as I've heard people say) 'EM pinballs like to be played' Essentially some of the contacts can clean themselves, as parts rub against each other.
I'd love to add an EM pinball to my 'collection' - In quotes because I don't actually have any yet, though I have acquired 2, that should be arriving this weel - one is Stern's 24, which I know you did a video on in the past. I've always been a big fan of the show, so when i saw one in good consition for sale here in the UK, I decided it was time I got a pinball of my own.
Other videos I've seen and stuff I've read about EM games suggest that the most common problems with EM games are that stuff needs to be cleaned - though a burnt out component like the one in that relay, obvious isn't going to be fixed with a little cleaning, hehe.
I don't know how closely you watched the video whilst editing it before posting, but the solenoid on the player unit seemed to only half activate on occasions when you were trying draining the ball over and over again, and not looking in the rear of the backbox. I think it was after the first time you advanced the stepper manually and things started happening, just occasionally it looked like the solenoid didn't fire properly, and the rod (I don't know the correct name) that moves inside the solenoid only moved around half way, just occasionally, instead of activating fully.
That might be something worth looking into (though I have no idea how or where to start with that! Helpful aren't I? hehe
Looking forward to the next video on this though - I hope it's not another 2 year wait :D
Basically on an EM, you just go through all of the switch relay's and clean/adjust and gap all of the leaf's, Jones plugs and then rebuild all the steppers assembly's. In fact I would clean the Jones plugs first then take it from there. Lots of work.
Someone needs to get John a new Popcorn Machine i'm missing his popcorn
I wish you the best of luck with this restoration, I love the graffiti on the side!
John, I guess and think that you must add points to the scorewheels in order to
get the ball/player unit inside the backbox to advance.
Thanks for all your videos !
BR/Lars
57:55 a contact on the rotary switch mechanism is arcing.
OMG a Bronco video?! Yes!
*This video is relay good!*
You can set the arcade to free play from the EJB menu if it's set to pay to play and it's using CMOS coinage instead of DIP switch coinage. Might want to double check any MK2 cabs you have in your locations just to make sure they're not set to CMOS.
"Under normal circumstances, if you access the service menu and do a 'CPU Board Test,' after it's done the board goes back to the menu so you can continue with more tests. The caveat here is when you are in the EJB menu and you do the 'CPU Board Test,' when it's done, instead of the board going back into the EJB menu, it reverts back to the regular, normal service menu, as if you pressed the button behind the coin door. The EJB menu has no access to allow you to make pricing changes. When the board reverts to the regular menu after the board test, you now have that option! So basically, as long as the dip switches are set to CMOS coinage, you can change any MK2 or MK3 cabinet from pay-to-play to Free Play"
Thanks for the explanation. I did this code at a local bar and the free play option did not work because of the manual dipswitch setting. However, on my MK2 I got it to work. I didn’t understand the full reasoning to that until your cmos explanation
I found this out right after the menus were discovered a couple of years back. Put a video up about it here: czcams.com/video/hcW2wNnPodw/video.html There was a French guy who found it a week before I stumbled upon it. SO COOL.
Please stick some large googly eyes on that popcorn machine :)
Look up deep creep penetrating oil in the future,very little to no smell penetrating oil and is torch safe as well if you need to heat up a part,best spray ever
*I want that audio sample at **18:30** of the chimes to be in a new Kill Screens song! Challenge!*
Some old EM games you need to score a point in order to advance the ball count.
I feel like you should turn the broken popcorn maker into a robot sidekick puppet...it wobbles like a muppet already!
18:30 the bells! John you should sample that and make it into a song 😊👌💐
John, Thanks fpr the new bronco video. Please get the schematic for this game. Otherwise you will be just chasing your tail. The schematic tells you how the game operates and which relay gets activated when a specific condition exists Good Luck buit you really need that schematic.
Been thinking about getting a pinball maybe if I see how you work one a EM I’ll go ahead a get one
Iam happy thanks
regarding the flippers you might need to buy rebuild kits for them but I would first check the end of stroke switch first to make sure the coil is getting full power to move not low power to maintain the flippers in on position. double check the coils resistance
TMNT, you going to work on it. The Football game seems lost in the back.
Also, John, you gotta check every switch, since these old games are all ON/OFF switch-system, kinda, so every switch must be correct before it does anything.
You have to score points for tbe ball index to advance.
First ball relay is used in the reset process. You'll need that one to fire as it should, or the game will not advance anything! It will turn off after ball 1 usually, then the bx comes on at the end of ball 2 or 4, which tells game over to come on when it drains...
For the ballcount unit not advancing I don't believe the problem is the unit itself, though you really should give those rivets a good cleaning. It looks like the plunger is simply not moving high enough on every step to advance the unit. I had this problem as well. There are switches on the score motor that pulse the ballcount unit, and there's a good chance that switch simply isn't making good contact so the plunger isn't advancing all the way. I think it's on stack 1A. As for the game being stuck on multiple players, the small stepper beside the AX relay controls that. While it looks like it's trying to reset from the video there's a good chance it's gummed up and not resenting properly. So if it's currently stuck at it's last position you're gonna get a 4 player game every time.
Yeah you can see the plunger trying to move there at 26:14, but failing hard. Just a little weak bump.
Go ahead and order 2 flipper coils too. I need to replace mine and it would be cool to watch you change yours out first
5:02 you have some balls in your bag LOL
John, is the color cracked through on the backglass or is it just the frosting? Cause it looks good from the front unless the backlights are on, then the light shows through more in some spots. Maybe you can get some rustoleum spray frosting. It kinda scratches off easily but it will even out the light, and I think if you coat it with that triple thick before it dries it might hold better. I'd test it on some glass first though. Just a thought.
This is the series I've been waiting for you to get back too. I really want to learn from you how to restore those old pins.
Also .. What's your thoughts on the Arcade 1UP games?
John, If I made a series showing how to make a basic Jamma cabinet would you share/support it ?
Finally that poor old boi get some sweet soft hands on him
Hi John, old pin repairman told me a lot of problems will go away, the more it's played. Also told me to be aware of soaking the machine in contact cleaner because of the sparks from contacts.
Best to you!
-James
Yes. No contact cleaner will be used. Game can catch on fire.
contact cleaner is for digital electronics. the 50 volt ac arc voltage will electrolysis the cleaner and break it down into a corrosive salt that will cause the points to fail
insta like ^_^ (OMG not even 480p yet!)
Hey John I want to see the parts 1 and 2 videos. I own this same machine. Thanks!
Since there's no such thing as a voltage that's only AC-specific, then what's the big deal with it being AC voltage if there's no minimum or practical limit to what that can be, per design needs?
saw the headline nearly fainted thought it wouldn't happen, should be interesting watch I leave my 2-bit comments as usual
you've got to leave that on there Bonnie loves Donny that is part of it's history be interesting if you could track them down!
IT IS REAL
John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech bit of advice John you got a little shock don't touch the rails with your other hand or better still put some insulation tape on it. You are earthing your other hand out! if you touch the mains it will go across your chest could be fatal so put on the rails some insulation tape because they should be earthed out! but how well are they Earth? check with your multimeter on all the Earth parts. you need to oil all the mechanism the relay mechanisms the play advance mechanism you could use sewing machine Oil or spindle oil just a drop on every joint
Do you reckon it's Donny Osman ?
It looks like the pins for the player do not need to be removed the player will pivot down once the screw is removed.
Now its a Saturday!
That thing looks confusing as hell to work on, but I'm sure you'll figure it out
John, is your neighbor always cutting his grass when you are in the garage?
I watch fix it phil Jon and I learned to clean it is electronic cleaner
I think everyone agrees that electronic cleaner is a no-no. It's flammable.
John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech ok
PS John tilt that game up so it plays faster, might be hard on the game with that big metal ball come slamming down that big playfield
Is johns arcade forums still alive? I applied 2 weeks ago and I'm still waiting approval "An Error Has Occurred!
Your account is still awaiting admin approval. "
AnalogX64 I’ve been waiting months
this is Mike, I'm trying to get my 1968 paul bunyan pinball working. We're do you get your part from. Thanks
Rig a screen up from your cam to use as a monitor so you can see whats happening at the back. De-Ox and IPA the crap out of it.
Are you ever going to replace that broken or killed with a bat popcorn popper?
Or replace that wobbly Patriots table?
Listen to the Game Store Guy podcast on the VGO app!
CCGamesCEO
Lol
Lol. Shameless plugging.
John, have you ever come across a nintendo hellfire arcade machine in your travels?
Are the other two parts behind some pay-wall?
No, they are not. I made a playlist with all videos and here: czcams.com/play/PLF6Omn2cXb7aL7M251g1HyL1hfPTYJ128.html
Always remove the ball before lifting up the playfield. Last thing you want is for it to fall through, Damage or short something out.
I might know this. Maybe.
Oh, my, goodness. John, John, John......... I have been restoring all eras of pinball machines for 20+ years. After watching the first 20 minutes of this video I have a hundred things to tell you. You may be THE guy for restoring video arcades, but you have a lot to learn about restoring non working EM pinball machines. I've been watching your vids for about 4 years and am a big fan. We met briefly at Grinkers about 2 years ago. If you really want help with this machine, and save uncountable hours, we need to chat on the phone. If not, let me tell you at least 2 things I've learned about restoring EM's. #1, You may not believe me now (but you will someday), that you NEED to clean and adjust EVERY SINGLE SWITCH IN THE ENTIRE MACHINE! I shit you not. #2, DON'T USE THOSE FLEX STONE FILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's exchange emails, and chat on the phone. Let me know.............
Yes, I know I have a lot to learn. That's why I want to take this on. :) Feel free to e-mail me john @ johnsarcade.com THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
don't you have to score something before the ball number changes?
I think you have to clean all contacts and replace the capacitors, there is one behind the player counter.
No caps on a EM, though.
Not true Luzur. Many Gottliebs had a few, for various reasons, just before System 1 Solid States.
Part 4 John!
I know....
Blow it out with a leaf blower, then spray all the relays with contact cleaner
👍👍👍👍👍
👍😎
Balls in your bag. Would that make it your ball bag? Lol
A illegal opcode is basically a undocumented instruction. I'm guessing here it's counting lock ups of the main game loop.
Opcodes or operating code are the instruction syllable that specifies the instruction a cpu is meant to preform to the data its processing.
51:50 mosquito taking a bite!
YUM!
When's john gonna start the popmaster restore. :P
Go Broncos! 2-0!
You should rectify the flippers to DC, makes them much stronger and eliminates the buzzing. pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bridge-rectifiers-flippers#post-4038614
You could also do the pop's if so inclined.
There is a way to get free games from this menu, its more of a glitch, but it works.
do not use contact cleaner or grease anything except maype some teflon or pinball lube on contacts of the stepper units.
I’m yelling at the screen.. check the reels. One isn’t reset.. lol. Join the em pinball group on Facebook.. it’s a common machine.. the king of em is on there.. he’s a genius with these. The guy from the pinball museum in Las Vegas.. he is a genius with these..
Idea for your next video: Repairing that busted up popcorn machine!!!
I have no idea what you are you talking about.
Lol... I'm sure you don't!
Just get it off the table, please; it's so depressing now, and the joke from April Fools' Easter this year is more than plenty old.
Pandora Box is tempting, but they are pretty bad emulation. Stay away, just watch any recent review of them.
Re the hidden menu in the MK2, that's why there was no free play mode, imagine if there was and that code had got out back in the day, then the game would have earned no money whatsoever as everyone would have just gone into the menu and got free games.
You sold the Mad Planets to Jay? Say it isn’t so.
There was a Part 1 & 2??
Check playlist in description
@@Johnsarcade Just making a jokey joke! Welcome back!
@51:48 mosquito attack!
Is Mortal Combat finally done?
Yes, but we will do one more final video. There are a lot of little loose ends.
@john - no need for another MKII video. Really.
John as a long time subscriber of your channel you need to check out Last Gamer greatest game room in the world. You will die when you see he’s arcade room insane !!!
I saw the intro. Looked pretty sick! :)
Are you always in the basement?
Hope that Mosquito on your arm didn’t bite😵😵😵
Where is mad planets did I miss something?
My friend Jay has it.
Someone in the comments has mentioned how you CAN get FREEPLAY with this trick John. I uploaded a video about it back when the trick was discovered here:
czcams.com/video/hcW2wNnPodw/video.html
Yeah. Bad news. :)
Just use DIPSWITCH COINAGE and you're good on location. :)
Can you stretch a pinball repair to 20 vids? Something to make up for that MKII bullshit..
when its done don't play it for too long or you will have a delusion that your an animated pimp in 1970's new york
On 38:50 don’t bend the switches, just loose the two screws on the top of the switches. Or put some spacers under the switches array.
I thought that too, the screws are the adjustment
if he cleaned the stepper unit he would reduce the friction enough for the game to function properly. this reminds me of people who wind up return springs on stepper units because they don't fully reset but then wonder why they don't advance because there is to much tension on the spring. the steppers have to be cleaned and degummed and if the plunger inserts are worn they need to be replaced these games do not get greased except for the fingers of the stepper unit and then it is highly buffed in so that it doesn't collect dirt and gum up. then he needs to buy the schematics in order to follow the switch logic. he does not realize that there is a switch in the main body that governs how many pulses the player unit receives to move. I have always started repairing these units with a dmm on continuity test and a power supply to activate relays and make sure the contacts make and break properly and that wires haven't broken off the leafs
ps tighten all the switch stacks and make sure they are lined up
john you would be better off doing most of this of camera but show clips of you working on 1 type of the different stepper units only need to show doing 1 score reel because after one you have seen them all. the fascinating part will be you tracking down the logic problems you have after you have eliminated all the intermittent contact problems by cleaning the leaf switches until you go over it problems will be coming and going as things vibrate and shift
Pandora box blows...
Never tried it! Would like to, just cause.