worst part about powerhouse is all the achievements for playing the map. If you want 100% of the acheivements you need to win 142 games of powerhouse, THAT'S RIDICULOUS!
fun fact: power house was made in 2007 but was never finished until the original creator visited valve and finished the map in 2015, is from the same time of 2fort and dustbowl
Suijin is far more fun in Arena, it's just a shame the TFTeam gave Arena the boot. I also want to like Mossrock for its Upward influence but I have to agree with all the arguments against it. Especially the final point. Good grief.
And in The old tf2, there was only 2 health and ammo pack in the entire map (both sewers). The extra spawn was there so the engie and other defense classes could quickly resuply if needed
it was an actula spawn room back in the original quake mod but court yard and bridge are so different i dont know why the kept it even stairs are different and sewers
I only use the 3rd spawn if an Engie is at the intel room and I'm Pyro. Great so that I can't just go ALL THE WAY up to the surface, and then equip it. Yet, if it was a spawn room, it'll be great. I also used it as a hiding area.
2fort was designed and balanced around the very original Quakeworld Team Fortress. It was brought into TFC because TFC was a remake of Quakeworld Team Fortress.
Tbh,I don't think engies should be able to nest other teams intels to begin with.That's pretty bad desgin. Yeah,that spawn room should just be another spawn place;it would be slight better than that one spawn that makes you have to chose between going the long way across your base or daring to cross the Sniper point in the place that they have twice the upper hand against you I don't think we should discuss the original 2fort from Quake because...well,that game played around 75% different than TF2.Hell;nowadays TF2 plays fairly different from Launch days TF2,not that it justifies it being bad now,but I think it's kind of hard to know what they were going for with that map when you consider it's from such a long time ago .
I played Junction twice to do that thing siN showed where you can block the point from that lamppost thing. took me more to find the actual point than to get fucking killed in that spot
I hope that in the distance future, Valve decides to re-add CTF_Well, CTF_Sawmill and CP_5Gorge back into the casual rotation since there’s no reason why they got removed when Meet your Match came out and fix maps like Junction, Turbine, Dustbowl, Gorge, Powerhouse and 2Fort for example so they become more balance and fun to play rather than one class dominating the entire match like making them into those pro maps that add little things to those maps that completely changes the way you play the map.
Great list, but I would have liked to see Upward. It is a very open map with a lot of potential to both rocket jump and flank, it is fun to play, and has really balanced sentry spots.
@@somo4227 its a fun map overall... Except the last point. Like, theres no balance in the last point. Either blu is unstoppable or red is too overpowered.
Hey Ace, just adding to your line of thought: Maps should also be evaluated not only by welcoming all classes, but also all playstyles, a map can welcome snipers pretty well, but sometimes huntsman sniper is left out, and so on~
I always thought that Powerhouse was quite a pretty map, with the blue sky, red rock and white concrete/metal (like in Hydro), but I can see why it can be labelled as bland, too. I really want to like it, and I've had great matches on it, I just think mid is too easily campable.
Landfall is a good thing, though i think it's that the ways to get there are too many good sentry spots too far apart from eachother, so you can't reliably get thru them...also one way to get there is a sightline so far you could kill someone in a different postal code.
Because of cp_well and koth_sawmill. Less maps means more players in each server, so faster and better queuing. Similar to how in early meet your match, there were even less maps than there are now. I assume the TFteam thought the maps were similar enough, so if you wanted to play on them, you would be streamlined to these, the "more popular" ones. Also this is just my speculation, this isn't confirmed.
"This is taking too long, mortals. Perhaps Merasmus should tell you where he is. Hey, you, yes you, Merasmus is the supply cabinet in the middle of the map! No, not in your spawn!"
Regarding that Spy problem with friendly/truce mode in Ghost Fort, that was actually patched in the last Scream Fortress, wasn't it? I haven't had any Spies sapping sentries in truce mode last Scream Fortress. Anyway, regarding the debacle that's happening with this video's visibility, i managed to get a whole bunch of ads on this video as of right now, and i'm planning to not skip them for ya, hope it helps your income increase by a few cents, at least. This second part of the list was well worth the wait, throughly i enjoyed it. ^^ throughly
Me too It's not only 2fort level of stalematey, it is also the most bland and uninspired looking map design (not counting dev textured maps) But it looks like it is designed in one hour.
I bought a strange prof ks BFB with 2.54 euro and spent a key on a strange spec ks winger and strange spec ks boston basher after watching your BFB video. i regret nothing.
Fun Fact: Power House is actually a very old map. Like... release build of TF2 old. Why wasn't it released with the game? Don't know for certain other than the 'wasn't finished at the time of the game's release' assumption but the original dev of the map just randomly came into the TF Team's office and finished up the map. Then we got it in Gun Mettle*. (*Originally put it down as 'Meet Your Match' for when this map was released) At least, that's how the story goes. Bright side to all this: This map is like Hydro in aesthetic but with different gameplay and structure. PS: I THINK I found the area that you were talking about, Ace, and my mind is just thinking of the possibilities it would have offered if it was connected to the rest of the map.
That portion of the map I am pretty sure was a playable space during development of it the bridge area looked like it used to have windows facing the unused canal not to mention some strange metal door things on either side of the canal next to the bridge
If you go through those doors via no clip you'll see some basic geometry for hallways that seem to lead to the area that is behind the final control point. Honestly, if that area was re-opened then I'd move the spawn rooms away from the point a bit more. Maybe somewhere up that inaccessible road to the right/left of spawn and have it also enter the rooms that used to be spawn?
It's not like it was being worked on at all during the time between release and the update that added it. Again, the original dev of the map just randomly came in one day to finish it and it shipped with Gun Mettle.
ACE: Consider not putting TF2 in tags or titles or audio. Everyone knows what your channel is about: You could re-upload a "censored, 'advertiser friendly'' version of this video. You're putting a lot of work in for us, and getting none of the reward you earned. Maybe we need to fight stupid with stupid?
Doublecross is definitely an awesome map, but I still would have replaced mossrock with Mercenary Park. I hate that map with a passion. It’s so awful, I almost hate it more than turbine.
FlyingYak ________________ Eh I like it too, yet the last is pretty choke pointy, but now with the updated version it's less of 1 choke point and a weak flank route that never works to a and a powerful flank route that can easily take out your sentries if you arn't careful... if soldiers would just go through the little door and spam the Sentry.
I played it yesterday, you would not believe how cramped it still is with pyros it was so bad I couldn’t even get a sentry to level 2 (I’m an engiee main) it didn’t help that there was also a solider and a demo on the enemy team as well
I mean, it’s bad with 15 million Pyros, but if you find a game without too many pyros crowding the tight corners, it’s made some pretty competitive games for me.
If anyone was wondering about the intro to turbine: it was when valve announced something to do with artifact, probably one of the worst valve games ever
i had lot of fun on ctf_sawmill when i was f2p i had cloak and dagger and i was camping in enemy intel room with enemy engie he had sentry nest there and i was about to destroy it but was too scare to do it so i was standing still in one corner but spy (me, idk why when im playing normaly classes doesnt saying anything) was still saying something and i didnt even know about these support voicelines (like: thx,medic,put despenser sentry......) and enemy engie heard me and he was looking for me but he couldnt find me it was so funny to watch that angry engie that was shooting into every corner to find me :D (sorry for my eng)
I love Doublecross too, but only for one reason: The first minute. I love that initial moment of the game where both teams charge onto the main bridge and duke it out with only a truck, some boxes, and a literal pile of dirt for cover. It makes me feel as if I’m fighting in an actual battle, and I love it.
well the blue moon update must have been you blessing "give us back ctf well, ctf sawmill, and 5gorge please value!" *snap* " done" "they were such go- wait what?" "wish granted go" "HOLY SHIT YOU RESPONDED!"
Was literally just thinking about the looping footage on turbine when that text came up. Also yes, Powerhouse... I remember playing a 6 hour long game on that map.
Actually, I've noticed something else about Turbine. Excluding the central room and depending on your definition the intel rooms, the *entire* map is made out of choke points. Direct approach to intel? Choke point Vents? The tightest choke point in all of Team Fortress 2 Spawn Hallway? Choke point + Enemy spawn This is why Turbine is so terrible. But if there is no engies or snipers, Turbine can be a pretty fun Deathmatch map. A big open area with (albeit small) height differences and cover is ideal DM land. Just a shame it can be covered by a whopping single sentry gun and has atleast 2 snipers at all times watching it.
I think the reason they removed ctf_well, ctf_sawmill and cp_5gorge is because A. Their reskins of pre exsiting maps and B. They don't fell diffrent in terms of game play (At least in their minds). Case and point: Gorge has 3 version, A/D (Won't meantion) and 5cp and ctf, but the diffrents between ctf_gorge and normal ctf is ctf_gorge is a Mannpower map! And ctf_well doesn't have that flare to it.
I think Harvest's crippling flaw is the utter domination of the Sniper class. Moreso than any other KOTH map, a single uncontested Sniper has sightlines on 80% or more of the map from that stupid shack in the back corner, or has direct corner control of the most common exit route from spawn if he chooses the window. Both spots are extremely powerful and hard to contest without going out of your way just to deal with the Sniper or hope the Spy can take care of him. Especially with the shack location, getting near him is just quite literally not possible without pure luck, as you either HAVE to walk in his sights directly towards him or risk walking past the entire enemy team's spawn and suddenly having a Heavy, Soldier or Pyro exit right on top of you. You also then have to pass under the shack and around to the back to get up on it to even kill him. Essentially, a bad enough Sniper problem can FORCE a class change just to deal with it so that you're allowed to walk anywhere near the control point without getting your head taken off. Two or three snipers in multiple locations can make Harvest downright infuriating because they can dominate 90% of the map unopposed. Harvest can be a blast, but the potential for absolute rage is extremely high, and all it takes to reach that point is to have two enemies pick Sniper.
I know what he talking about, and the wort part you can see them on PowerHouse Still. This would of made demos and scout more usable. Then there were some more nice Spy spots for Spy to hide, then Engineers would need a Pyro to help, or even ask a Heavy to Check Since if he when to check, the spy can sneak by and sap the Sentry.
i wish we’d get both ctf_well and ctf_sawmill back. i really missed those maps, and though landfall was cool, it doesn’t make up for the loss. i’m praying we get more ctf maps
Glad to see that this is back up. Also Ace it really saddens me that this will be the last video of this type on your channel. But at least I can say that these list videos are going out on a high note.
funny how almost all the bad maps only really became that bad with the class items, like turbine is so much more balanced with stock classes, no rescue ranger and t1 dispensers only meant nests werent anywhere near as impenetrable
I personally hate Ghost Fort, just because of its GOD-AWFUL capture time. You cannot control the point for 7 minutes without being interrupted by Merasmus, who, I agree, is a great character, but he can appear WAY too frequently for my liking, which can be super annoying since he has increasingly more health, and you need to drop everything that you're doing to fight him. But that's just my opinion, and you have yours.
Had that occur where he kept on appearing and it took hours to finish a round. What made it worse is that me and many other people were doing the mission to kill Merasmus and had it done after the first kill. I think almost everyone was sick of the map and I'm pretty sure A LOT of players left the server after.
Though i do agree, Turbine is shit, but what i found when i played it, either it turned into a TDM stalemate, or if one team breaks the defense once they instantly win as the other team cant ever seem to recover to stop the continuous capping, making it even worse imo.
Every time I play it I get completely steam rolled. Half the people just installed so they don't know it's the worst map, the other half are 1,000+ hours who go there because they know how to completely lock it down with their friends. And I don't have any friends so I'm always on the losing side.
FaolanTheLoneWolf Going back to that TDM statement. Turbine may be one the best maps to level up strange weapons as quickly as possible, (not included friendly servers)which is one of the reasons why I love it. Despite all of the downsides.
Toa Pohatu Once, I was on Harvest, and all we did was camp the enemy spawn. I went Phlog Pyro (Not just to be a jerk, I was also working on it's contract), and completely camped the other team's spawn. Once one person got out, I killed them, then activated crits, killing the people that followed. If I died, my team kept the camp until I respawned, rushed over, and rejoined them. It was fun for us, but probably the worst for the other team. They didn't cap once the rest of the game. That's what it would be like in Turbine, if defenses were destroyed and they got into the spawn area.
I disagree with your placement of double cross. It's does sound and look real good in theory, but in practice in an actual game it's a different story. Personally it's one of my least favorite.
same, like the roof engies... because the one thing i need is to finally push the enemies out of our base, just for Uber to run out and us to get fucked by the 2-3 engies camping on the roof, with NO WAY TO GET TO THEM WITHOUT BEING IN DIRECT SPAM OR LINE OF FIRE, from Engies, or Snipers...OR BOTH! Plus the Game is so easily back capped by one Scout with the winger or atomizer. or worse, a soldier.
I would have replaced turbine with cp_sunshine, and powerhouse with cp_steel. Why? Because: 1) How sunshine ALWAYS turns out is that one team manages to get straight to the last point, and then it's a ridiculously long stalemate until either the attacking team manages to cap the point with an uber push and the defenders lose, OR the stalemate continues until time runs out, which means the attacking tem wins anyway. 2) CP_STEEL IS SO GODDAMN CONFUSING THAT I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHERE I AM MOST OF THE TIME!!!! Also, the map is never in the rotation, so no one actually learns their way around. Also also, all you need to do to win is to send someone who actually knows their way around to cap the last point. (Like that's ever gonna happen.) Oh, and by the way, WHY IS THE LAST POINT ABLE TO BE CAPPED FROM THE START?!
I had a fun map idea for a payload/payload race map involving getting the cart from the base of a mountain camp to the summit of a mountain, I don't think it's a theme that's been really done yet.
i'll admit, i love powerhouse. but i spent a good 30% of my beginner playtime in it. so~~~~ yeah, i'm biassed. BUT i can see it's flaws now that they're somewhat pointed out.
Quick note about DoubleCross: Using the Atomizer you can jump from the central bridge to the battlements, even while bonked. You can triple-cap before engineers know what to do.
That was a pretty good reference to the reveal of Artifact when you revealed Turbine. idk how many other people caught that. I got a really good laugh out of that.
Powerhouse is easily in my top 10. With this map Valve showed that they can actually make something different than dustbowl. Btw peeking spot isn't to going to win you every game...people can just snipe you idk man.
tRU powerhouse is literally the same art style and hydro which was in the game since it came out, I'm sure you know about how it was supposed to come out but the guy who worked on it didn't finish it.
GUYS! THE UNUSED AREA FROM POWERHOUSE IS PLS UPVOTE BEHIND THE CENTRAL POINT IT IS A ROUTE BETWEEN BOTH LAST CONTROL POINTS! *censored* But really did you guys know it?
I capped on mossrock once. The train literally clutched the game for us. The moment they came out of spawn after a push, it blocked all spam and took out a heavy medic combo. literally saved us like 10 seconds and we won.
Why does it matter that 2fort is old? And Turbine has never been the greatest. And even then, being 'standard' doesn't make something fun or well-designed.
Interesting thing about powerhouse, there's an awesome area with flanking doors and a badass waterfall which could easily save the map and get rid of almost all it's problems, but it was scrapped.
2spooky4me on 2fort if you're defending you can easily flank around to get behind enemies. On turbine it takes so long to get around the Intel is gone when you get there.
2fort's Intel paths can be guarded by a single sentry thats hard to take down, but on turbine a sentry can easily be taken down by a single power class because of the very square corners being easily peeked
2spooky4me they just peak and shoot once, wait for the sentry to got to its back to it rotating normally, then repeat. It can't be done with a team around, but turbine and 2fort are the kind of maps where there isn't a lot of team coordination as you can imagine.
I've been spawn camped so many times by pyros on doublecross and all the extra routes allows enemy engineers to place teleporters where they want allowing the team to instantly teleport straight to your spawn.
“I’ve seen roblox maps with more creativity than this” I used to play roblox, and on a game that is definitely inspired by TF2, someone was genius enough to try and remake turbine, but the sad this is its slightly better
![TF2: The Top 10 Best & Worst Maps! [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sf5TccRURoU/mqdefault.jpg)
![TF2: The Top 10 Best & Worst Maps! [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Tweaking TF2's Terrible Training](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Hb1ToDkwAjY/mqdefault.jpg)
wow a video about a 2007 video game starts off with a joke that brings me right back to 2007
The best map in the game is banana bay because it's my banana's bae no but seriously where is banana bay for the best map?
Not a channel okaay that's so fu**ing unfunny and copied too.
don't reply to me if you're gonna censor the word fucking
say it or don't don't go half way
Xezian I was replying to "not a chanel okay"
but you're still replying to me since it's under my original comment
worst part about powerhouse is all the achievements for playing the map. If you want 100% of the acheivements you need to win 142 games of powerhouse, THAT'S RIDICULOUS!
Just play it on a private server, I mean you'll probably get bored but its better than being frustrated right.
there's a lot of those types of achievements tbf.
fun fact: power house was made in 2007 but was never finished until the original creator visited valve and finished the map in 2015, is from the same time of 2fort and dustbowl
juan pablo lozano so that's why the old bad design 2007/8 maps it has
Dimitri Petrenko I like your yoda speak
It really shows
juan pablo lozano
I am skeptical about the validity of your statement.
Charles Vokal no it's true
Fun fact: mossrock is made by the same creator of sujin. That gal can create good looking maps. But not good design maps.
Dimitri Petrenko Or optimized maps.
Dimitri Petrenko makes sense
Dimitri Petrenko sujin is unplayable after the pyro update
Mr. Moon
Why?
Suijin is far more fun in Arena, it's just a shame the TFTeam gave Arena the boot.
I also want to like Mossrock for its Upward influence but I have to agree with all the arguments against it. Especially the final point. Good grief.
i am still thinking why 2fort has that 3rd spawn
It's a leftover from the old Team Fortress quake mod, in which that spawn used to actually function as a spawn.
And in The old tf2, there was only 2 health and ammo pack in the entire map (both sewers). The extra spawn was there so the engie and other defense classes could quickly resuply if needed
It's a resupply room.
it was an actula spawn room back in the original quake mod but court yard and bridge are so different i dont know why the kept it even stairs are different and sewers
I only use the 3rd spawn if an Engie is at the intel room and I'm Pyro. Great so that I can't just go ALL THE WAY up to the surface, and then equip it. Yet, if it was a spawn room, it'll be great. I also used it as a hiding area.
The third spawn in 2fort is helpful for teams who need to clean out enemy engineer nests in your own intel.
mrcomp you're right
That is more uncommon than a telefrag, bad design in my opinion
Aperture Bonnie it's very common in community servers.
Except I'm the engineer in their intel.
2fort was designed and balanced around the very original Quakeworld Team Fortress.
It was brought into TFC because TFC was a remake of Quakeworld Team Fortress.
Tbh,I don't think engies should be able to nest other teams intels to begin with.That's pretty bad desgin.
Yeah,that spawn room should just be another spawn place;it would be slight better than that one spawn that makes you have to chose between going the long way across your base or daring to cross the Sniper point in the place that they have twice the upper hand against you
I don't think we should discuss the original 2fort from Quake because...well,that game played around 75% different than TF2.Hell;nowadays TF2 plays fairly different from Launch days TF2,not that it justifies it being bad now,but I think it's kind of hard to know what they were going for with that map when you consider it's from such a long time ago
.
*How a typical game of Junction goes for me*
Me: WHERE THE FUCK IS THE POINT I NEED TO BE AT?!
I played Junction twice to do that thing siN showed where you can block the point from that lamppost thing.
took me more to find the actual point than to get fucking killed in that spot
Dark Star -how every game goes for me-
How every match on cp_steel goes, even for experienced players
That’s me with Steel
follow the signs
I hope that in the distance future, Valve decides to re-add CTF_Well, CTF_Sawmill and CP_5Gorge back into the casual rotation since there’s no reason why they got removed when Meet your Match came out and fix maps like Junction, Turbine, Dustbowl, Gorge, Powerhouse and 2Fort for example so they become more balance and fun to play rather than one class dominating the entire match like making them into those pro maps that add little things to those maps that completely changes the way you play the map.
Agreed
Ctf sawmill was one of my favorite maps
StickMaster500 I agree but, you are still on literally every video I see
OH GOD HE IS HERE TOO!
IS THERE ANY TF2 VIDEO THAT U HAVE NOT COMMENTED. (I'm not mad I'm just mind blown)
An actual serious comment by the stickmaster?
*talks about how splatoon maps have equal advantages for both teams*
*shows footage of saltspray rig*
The ONE exception to the rule.
*starts video* gir kills everyone
There you happy
yeah, i loved the gir reference
ZUG ITS GIR YOU IDIOT
IT WAS GIR
Great list, but I would have liked to see Upward. It is a very open map with a lot of potential to both rocket jump and flank, it is fun to play, and has really balanced sentry spots.
Ikr I love upward
Upward is probably my favorite map. Followed by swiftwater, then 5gorge
where is badwater? never got bad maches on it,only epic ones
@@somo4227 its a fun map overall... Except the last point.
Like, theres no balance in the last point. Either blu is unstoppable or red is too overpowered.
i personally dont like upward that much. probably because payload is my least favorite mode besides special delivery and mannpower
Hey Ace, just adding to your line of thought:
Maps should also be evaluated not only by welcoming all classes, but also all playstyles, a map can welcome snipers pretty well, but sometimes huntsman sniper is left out, and so on~
In that case every map I terrible because the Classic, Righteous Bison and many others suck in all of them.
I always thought that Powerhouse was quite a pretty map, with the blue sky, red rock and white concrete/metal (like in Hydro), but I can see why it can be labelled as bland, too.
I really want to like it, and I've had great matches on it, I just think mid is too easily campable.
Powerhouse is kinda incomplete, theres like a whole section that was cancelled
3:56
"dont get me wrong it has potential."
*11 seconds later:*
4:07
7:43 meet the baby face engie. No srysly wtf engie holding babyface blaster
Noah Vagic it is probably a randomizer map
have you never heard of randomizers before?
And as always... everyone forgets Landfall exists...
Landfall is one of the better CTF maps and deserves its place in Casual
Landfall is a good thing, though i think it's that the ways to get there are too many good sentry spots too far apart from eachother, so you can't reliably get thru them...also one way to get there is a sightline so far you could kill someone in a different postal code.
Sad that ctf_well and ctf_sawmill got removed.
Like, why?
Edit: Yay ace noticed me
Annocule They remove good ctf maps but the shit ones stay
Because of cp_well and koth_sawmill. Less maps means more players in each server, so faster and better queuing. Similar to how in early meet your match, there were even less maps than there are now.
I assume the TFteam thought the maps were similar enough, so if you wanted to play on them, you would be streamlined to these, the "more popular" ones.
Also this is just my speculation, this isn't confirmed.
Dude doublecross is good ctf
your forgetting about landfall
>good CTF maps
No.
8:04
Gaben: thanks, and my favorite class is the spy
22:43
Ace: And there are always sentries in this intel room!
Me: Intelroom?
the map was so bad he thought it was CTF
mearsmus made my game last 3 hours THREE
XD
"This is taking too long, mortals. Perhaps Merasmus should tell you where he is. Hey, you, yes you, Merasmus is the supply cabinet in the middle of the map! No, not in your spawn!"
@Thot Destroyer Why do you think i was even on that map
I don't think this map is bad, by my god Halloween missions made me hate it
Junction and Powerhouse: *exist*
Me: *laughs in ambidextrous*
Regarding that Spy problem with friendly/truce mode in Ghost Fort, that was actually patched in the last Scream Fortress, wasn't it? I haven't had any Spies sapping sentries in truce mode last Scream Fortress.
Anyway, regarding the debacle that's happening with this video's visibility, i managed to get a whole bunch of ads on this video as of right now, and i'm planning to not skip them for ya, hope it helps your income increase by a few cents, at least.
This second part of the list was well worth the wait, throughly i enjoyed it. ^^ throughly
I also absolutely loathe turbine.. it's just shit
I fucking love turbine
Its a good map for dm on mid and occasional spawncamping but its shit at serious play
The Poorly Drawn Tyrannosaurus it's mother should be embarrassed
Me too
It's not only 2fort level of stalematey, it is also the most bland and uninspired looking map design (not counting dev textured maps)
But it looks like it is designed in one hour.
hihiguy I play it as a meme, back in the day when I did play tf2. I used to play a server that ONLY had Turbine
I bought a strange prof ks BFB with 2.54 euro and spent a key on a strange spec ks winger and strange spec ks boston basher after watching your BFB video.
i regret nothing.
Fun Fact: Power House is actually a very old map. Like... release build of TF2 old. Why wasn't it released with the game? Don't know for certain other than the 'wasn't finished at the time of the game's release' assumption but the original dev of the map just randomly came into the TF Team's office and finished up the map. Then we got it in Gun Mettle*. (*Originally put it down as 'Meet Your Match' for when this map was released)
At least, that's how the story goes. Bright side to all this: This map is like Hydro in aesthetic but with different gameplay and structure.
PS: I THINK I found the area that you were talking about, Ace, and my mind is just thinking of the possibilities it would have offered if it was connected to the rest of the map.
Yeah, aware of how Valve works. Also corrected my mistake.
That portion of the map I am pretty sure was a playable space during development of it the bridge area looked like it used to have windows facing the unused canal not to mention some strange metal door things on either side of the canal next to the bridge
If you go through those doors via no clip you'll see some basic geometry for hallways that seem to lead to the area that is behind the final control point. Honestly, if that area was re-opened then I'd move the spawn rooms away from the point a bit more. Maybe somewhere up that inaccessible road to the right/left of spawn and have it also enter the rooms that used to be spawn?
8 years in development for this?
It's not like it was being worked on at all during the time between release and the update that added it. Again, the original dev of the map just randomly came in one day to finish it and it shipped with Gun Mettle.
I love banana bay
Moss rock is fun until the first point is capped, at that point disconnecting is much more fun
Jace Hackworth lmao
BUT I NEED MY EXP TO INFLATE MY EGO
Little did Ace know, that his favourite maps would be added to the game.
ACE: Consider not putting TF2 in tags or titles or audio. Everyone knows what your channel is about: You could re-upload a "censored, 'advertiser friendly'' version of this video.
You're putting a lot of work in for us, and getting none of the reward you earned.
Maybe we need to fight stupid with stupid?
boldCactus good idea
Doublecross is definitely an awesome map, but I still would have replaced mossrock with Mercenary Park. I hate that map with a passion. It’s so awful, I almost hate it more than turbine.
Uncle Gandhi oh you poor, delusional fool.
FlyingYak ________________ Eh I like it too, yet the last is pretty choke pointy, but now with the updated version it's less of 1 choke point and a weak flank route that never works to a and a powerful flank route that can easily take out your sentries if you arn't careful... if soldiers would just go through the little door and spam the Sentry.
FlyingYak ________________ dude mercany park is 2fort with cp's
I played it yesterday, you would not believe how cramped it still is with pyros it was so bad I couldn’t even get a sentry to level 2 (I’m an engiee main) it didn’t help that there was also a solider and a demo on the enemy team as well
I mean, it’s bad with 15 million Pyros, but if you find a game without too many pyros crowding the tight corners, it’s made some pretty competitive games for me.
Doublecross is my favorite CTF map, and the fact that you putted it in the 1st best tf2 map really cheered me up
I love how CTF_Well and Sawmill and 5gorge were readded. I still had a ton of fun on CP_Well tho
My favorite maps are the well variants and 2fort, i have learned so many ways to kill an engineer.
If anyone was wondering about the intro to turbine: it was when valve announced something to do with artifact, probably one of the worst valve games ever
ay... I got 2 ads watching this vid...
DG3 Red same
That's good. Watch those ads. They give him money and it gives the people who made the ad money. It's called monetization
Sir Pineapple
There's a update video explaining the entire situation on Ace's channel. He's not just an idiot saying "woah ads"
4
@@ineedpineapples or he is still demonotised and youtube is taking his cut of the profits
Woah Well Was Removed!? It is a Better CTF Map than 2fort in my opinion, but then again I only like 2fort because I started out on those servers.
Arutero not anymorr
I have no idea why he said that, they weren't removed from the game at all. They only took them off of the stock competitive mode map rotation
i had lot of fun on ctf_sawmill when i was f2p i had cloak and dagger and i was camping in enemy intel room with enemy engie he had sentry nest there and i was about to destroy it but was too scare to do it so i was standing still in one corner but spy (me, idk why when im playing normaly classes doesnt saying anything) was still saying something and i didnt even know about these support voicelines (like: thx,medic,put despenser sentry......) and enemy engie heard me and he was looking for me but he couldnt find me it was so funny to watch that angry engie that was shooting into every corner to find me :D
(sorry for my eng)
There should be an entire steam group dedicated to bringing back ctf_well
Its back
0:01 that was quick
I love Doublecross too, but only for one reason: The first minute. I love that initial moment of the game where both teams charge onto the main bridge and duke it out with only a truck, some boxes, and a literal pile of dirt for cover. It makes me feel as if I’m fighting in an actual battle, and I love it.
I just like messing with snipers
well the blue moon update must have been you blessing
"give us back ctf well, ctf sawmill, and 5gorge please value!"
*snap* " done"
"they were such go- wait what?"
"wish granted go"
"HOLY SHIT YOU RESPONDED!"
cp_process is actually insane map
It is an Amazing competitive map but a flawed casual map
Blue moon update: *drops*
Ace the ocarina maker: *craps himself*
August 2018 "Dude, Sawmill, Well and 5Gorge are back!!"
powerhouse: Ace is mad pt3.15
I actually like how whiterock looks more than mossrock
it's not called flipped mirrored it is called rotationale.
or rotated
NEO more or less the same thing
Was literally just thinking about the looping footage on turbine when that text came up.
Also yes, Powerhouse...
I remember playing a 6 hour long game on that map.
Glad I’m not the only one who DESPISES Turbine!
Arsta Blightcaller same
IKR. I despite it. Me and my sister like playing it in Gmod though, then it's a ton of fun since we aren't using the intel.
Actually, I've noticed something else about Turbine.
Excluding the central room and depending on your definition the intel rooms, the *entire* map is made out of choke points.
Direct approach to intel? Choke point
Vents? The tightest choke point in all of Team Fortress 2
Spawn Hallway? Choke point + Enemy spawn
This is why Turbine is so terrible.
But if there is no engies or snipers, Turbine can be a pretty fun Deathmatch map.
A big open area with (albeit small) height differences and cover is ideal DM land.
Just a shame it can be covered by a whopping single sentry gun and has atleast 2 snipers at all times watching it.
I think the reason they removed ctf_well, ctf_sawmill and cp_5gorge is because A. Their reskins of pre exsiting maps and B. They don't fell diffrent in terms of game play (At least in their minds). Case and point: Gorge has 3 version, A/D (Won't meantion) and 5cp and ctf, but the diffrents between ctf_gorge and normal ctf is ctf_gorge is a Mannpower map! And ctf_well doesn't have that flare to it.
Y'know what, Ace? You can fight me. Junction could use some changes, but I still love it.
I think Harvest's crippling flaw is the utter domination of the Sniper class. Moreso than any other KOTH map, a single uncontested Sniper has sightlines on 80% or more of the map from that stupid shack in the back corner, or has direct corner control of the most common exit route from spawn if he chooses the window. Both spots are extremely powerful and hard to contest without going out of your way just to deal with the Sniper or hope the Spy can take care of him. Especially with the shack location, getting near him is just quite literally not possible without pure luck, as you either HAVE to walk in his sights directly towards him or risk walking past the entire enemy team's spawn and suddenly having a Heavy, Soldier or Pyro exit right on top of you. You also then have to pass under the shack and around to the back to get up on it to even kill him. Essentially, a bad enough Sniper problem can FORCE a class change just to deal with it so that you're allowed to walk anywhere near the control point without getting your head taken off. Two or three snipers in multiple locations can make Harvest downright infuriating because they can dominate 90% of the map unopposed.
Harvest can be a blast, but the potential for absolute rage is extremely high, and all it takes to reach that point is to have two enemies pick Sniper.
Thank you for bringing back Invader Zim memories
I know what he talking about, and the wort part you can see them on PowerHouse Still.
This would of made demos and scout more usable.
Then there were some more nice Spy spots for Spy to hide, then Engineers would need a Pyro to help, or even ask a Heavy to Check Since if he when to check, the spy can sneak by and sap the Sentry.
EthBeatThem you talking about cannals?
i wish we’d get both ctf_well and ctf_sawmill back. i really missed those maps, and though landfall was cool, it doesn’t make up for the loss. i’m praying we get more ctf maps
These problems can be solved by:
Removing random crits
Banning level 3 sentries after the first point is capped
It WORKS!!!!!!!
Probably a bot that mistaked the video for clickbaiting channel that they were supposed to type.
Glad to see that this is back up. Also Ace it really saddens me that this will be the last video of this type on your channel. But at least I can say that these list videos are going out on a high note.
Turbine is so chaotic that I like it lmao
funny how almost all the bad maps only really became that bad with the class items, like turbine is so much more balanced with stock classes, no rescue ranger and t1 dispensers only meant nests werent anywhere near as impenetrable
I enjoy turbine, but I agree.
I personally hate Ghost Fort, just because of its GOD-AWFUL capture time. You cannot control the point for 7 minutes without being interrupted by Merasmus, who, I agree, is a great character, but he can appear WAY too frequently for my liking, which can be super annoying since he has increasingly more health, and you need to drop everything that you're doing to fight him. But that's just my opinion, and you have yours.
Had that occur where he kept on appearing and it took hours to finish a round. What made it worse is that me and many other people were doing the mission to kill Merasmus and had it done after the first kill. I think almost everyone was sick of the map and I'm pretty sure A LOT of players left the server after.
Yea, i really like when merasmus lvl 645744 spawns on the last second of the game
Ctf_well is my favorite spy map. Its so easy to hide in that GIANT base, and you can easelly snipe oblivious engies with ambassador.
Though i do agree, Turbine is shit, but what i found when i played it, either it turned into a TDM stalemate, or if one team breaks the defense once they instantly win as the other team cant ever seem to recover to stop the continuous capping, making it even worse imo.
This happens with me
Every time I play it I get completely steam rolled. Half the people just installed so they don't know it's the worst map, the other half are 1,000+ hours who go there because they know how to completely lock it down with their friends. And I don't have any friends so I'm always on the losing side.
FaolanTheLoneWolf Going back to that TDM statement. Turbine may be one the best maps to level up strange weapons as quickly as possible, (not included friendly servers)which is one of the reasons why I love it. Despite all of the downsides.
Yeah, it's that way for me too. Stalemate, or complete steamroll.
Toa Pohatu Once, I was on Harvest, and all we did was camp the enemy spawn. I went Phlog Pyro (Not just to be a jerk, I was also working on it's contract), and completely camped the other team's spawn. Once one person got out, I killed them, then activated crits, killing the people that followed. If I died, my team kept the camp until I respawned, rushed over, and rejoined them. It was fun for us, but probably the worst for the other team. They didn't cap once the rest of the game.
That's what it would be like in Turbine, if defenses were destroyed and they got into the spawn area.
22:23 faloober charge
Valve: What’s that? Tons of maps are unbalanced and unfair? Well we better nerf Demoman
I genuinely forgot the 3rd "Spawn" in 2Fort, like how you genuinely forgot Upward.
I disagree with your placement of double cross. It's does sound and look real good in theory, but in practice in an actual game it's a different story. Personally it's one of my least favorite.
same, like the roof engies... because the one thing i need is to finally push the enemies out of our base, just for Uber to run out and us to get fucked by the 2-3 engies camping on the roof, with NO WAY TO GET TO THEM WITHOUT BEING IN DIRECT SPAM OR LINE OF FIRE, from Engies, or Snipers...OR BOTH! Plus the Game is so easily back capped by one Scout with the winger or atomizer. or worse, a soldier.
I would have replaced turbine with cp_sunshine, and powerhouse with cp_steel. Why? Because:
1) How sunshine ALWAYS turns out is that one team manages to get straight to the last point, and then it's a ridiculously long stalemate until either the attacking team manages to cap the point with an uber push and the defenders lose, OR the stalemate continues until time runs out, which means the attacking tem wins anyway.
2) CP_STEEL IS SO GODDAMN CONFUSING THAT I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHERE I AM MOST OF THE TIME!!!! Also, the map is never in the rotation, so no one actually learns their way around. Also also, all you need to do to win is to send someone who actually knows their way around to cap the last point. (Like that's ever gonna happen.) Oh, and by the way, WHY IS THE LAST POINT ABLE TO BE CAPPED FROM THE START?!
I had a fun map idea for a payload/payload race map involving getting the cart from the base of a mountain camp to the summit of a mountain, I don't think it's a theme that's been really done yet.
Ehh, last point always supposed to be hard to capture, i don't know why it is reason to be worst map.
I definitely agree with double cross, turbine, and powerhouse
i'll admit, i love powerhouse. but i spent a good 30% of my beginner playtime in it. so~~~~ yeah, i'm biassed. BUT i can see it's flaws now that they're somewhat pointed out.
that feeling when ace forgets about the worst sniper spot in anything on doublecross (which is still super amazing imo)
Quick note about DoubleCross: Using the Atomizer you can jump from the central bridge to the battlements, even while bonked. You can triple-cap before engineers know what to do.
There was a map that noone plays on an d noone likes.... What was it called?
Oh yes hydro
I miss CTF well :(
Alexander Kousidis it's back
That was a pretty good reference to the reveal of Artifact when you revealed Turbine. idk how many other people caught that. I got a really good laugh out of that.
8:54 finally someone mentioned it, I first time played this on a medic vs engineer zombie server
Powerhouse is easily in my top 10. With this map Valve showed that they can actually make something different than dustbowl. Btw peeking spot isn't to going to win you every game...people can just snipe you idk man.
tRU powerhouse is literally the same art style and hydro which was in the game since it came out, I'm sure you know about how it was supposed to come out but the guy who worked on it didn't finish it.
Jace Hackworth I didn't really mean the artstyle, I just like the map layout idk.
GUYS! THE UNUSED AREA FROM POWERHOUSE IS
PLS UPVOTE
BEHIND THE CENTRAL POINT IT IS A ROUTE BETWEEN BOTH LAST CONTROL POINTS!
*censored*
But really did you guys know it?
Soviet Onion please edit your comment by removing upvote,please.
Okay thanks 👍
Soviet Onion thanks.
Found it too.
I capped on mossrock once. The train literally clutched the game for us. The moment they came out of spawn after a push, it blocked all spam and took out a heavy medic combo. literally saved us like 10 seconds and we won.
That has got to be the single best turn around ever! XD
Ace TheOcarinaMaker I'm just glad that- wait please tell me I did the contract...
“A sentry or a crocket”- Ace 2018
My Most favorite map in tf2 - Thunder Mountain
My Most Hated Map in tf2 - powerhouse
"Get your pitchforks out you sweaty nerds cause I don't give a shit"
*turbine is shown*
Yeah. I don't give a shit about this map either
I just wish ghost fort wasnt 7 minutes, then i wouldn’t wish to die 20 minutes and 5 merasmus fights in
Ghost fort is amazing if you get on top one of the wooden tower as engineer. Got around 170 points by having a sentry up there.
13:20 is that the fucking audio from the Artifact reveal? xD
Already emailed the TF team about all 3 maps but more of you do it just to be sure
The Turbine has to be the WORST for one reason: Spawn Camp
I don't even know why people love it
I recognized DoubleCross and... *shudder shudder*... PowerHouse
22:45 intel room?
You don't like the oldest 2fort and the greatest turbine?
well... what is the criteria for the standard ctf map then?? disagree
Why does it matter that 2fort is old? And Turbine has never been the greatest. And even then, being 'standard' doesn't make something fun or well-designed.
Interesting thing about powerhouse, there's an awesome area with flanking doors and a badass waterfall which could easily save the map and get rid of almost all it's problems, but it was scrapped.
I recently played a powerhouse match and it took 45 minutes to finish one round but it was honestly very fun
I like mos rock
k
Mossrock wasn't good for me. I respect opinion, but my favorite Jungle Inferno map is Banana Bay.
Tbh 2fort is way worse than turbine
2spooky4me on 2fort if you're defending you can easily flank around to get behind enemies. On turbine it takes so long to get around the Intel is gone when you get there.
2fort's Intel paths can be guarded by a single sentry thats hard to take down, but on turbine a sentry can easily be taken down by a single power class because of the very square corners being easily peeked
2spooky4me on both maps I see very often scouts killing sentries by peaking. And the engineers need to be able to be useful too.
I don't know where you play, but I've never seen a scout destroy a sentry on 2fort without an uber
2spooky4me they just peak and shoot once, wait for the sentry to got to its back to it rotating normally, then repeat. It can't be done with a team around, but turbine and 2fort are the kind of maps where there isn't a lot of team coordination as you can imagine.
I've been spawn camped so many times by pyros on doublecross and all the extra routes allows enemy engineers to place teleporters where they want allowing the team to instantly teleport straight to your spawn.
“I’ve seen roblox maps with more creativity than this”
I used to play roblox, and on a game that is definitely inspired by TF2, someone was genius enough to try and remake turbine, but the sad this is its slightly better