Is golf custom fitting pretty POINTLESS!?
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2022
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Let’s hear your thoughts 👇👇👇
What's the advantage of irons shafts for irons and woods?
I got a fitting at Orka HQ golf where they pride themselves on the build quality, has Rick ever thought of going there for a fitting? Lofts are ultra traditional as well!
I heard ideal spin is gone after 75 rounds with wedges grooves etc
Have your clubs checked when they arrive. My Cobra F9s were pretty spot on for lie, loft, and SW on arrival. Now when I regripped them the SW probably changed, but that's on me. And for wedges? You didn't mention practice time with them. I can't afford to be replacing wedges so I just sharpen the grooves a couple times during the year. 🤫
Pointless, you adjust to every set you have. As long as the shaft stiffness is in you window that’s all that matters. after a couple years your game will be top notch because of all you have learned by all the different adjustments you’ve been forced to learn. Playing the same custom grinds/shafts/etc will make you stale
I play off of five, and over my golfing career I found my money is much more well spent to get a lesson rather than a fitting. A good swing with bad clubs will always score better than a bad swing with good clubs
Why not do both though?? A good swing with fitted clubs will give you the best overall foundation. Plus, where I live a fitting is free if you buy clubs. Better yet, attend various manufacturers demo days and get free analysis from several fitters without buying anything. Cheers.
It is funny as I would totally agree yet my bag is highly fitted to my game. Not with shafts etc but length, loft, type of club etc. I have spend way too much money on equipment in the past but since I got it right I never want to change again. How would I know that I got it right if not for all the past fittings etc. Golf is fun.
Fittings are most effective with a consistent swing analysis. Every golfer’s swing changes over time so being fitted from a long time ago could mean close to nothing
Hell watch James Robinson play with the cheapest set on Amazon on Ricks channel it will blow your mind!
@@oozieneinmillimeeda I agree but also in my instance I'm pretty good at golf, but am tall with somewhat big hands, meaning as part of my fitting the shafts were built 1/4" longer, with three wraps of tape under a standard grip and 1 degree upright with a discussion about swing weights (some extra weighting was added on some clubs). I agree with you about consistent swing, but no matter how good or bad I get I'm hopefully not going to get shorter or hands get smaller. So I think everyone could benefit from at least a look over their equipment. And there are ways to get checked several times a year so not sure why anyone wouldn’t get analyzed often, especially at new club time. Cheers.
I got custom fit for my irons for the first time after playing for over 30 years. The weight of the shaft rather than the flex made a considerable difference to me. I always struggled with hitting the ball too high from flipping my hands. Changing to lighter weight shafts helped me to square the club and compress the ball. I can play more variety of shots than ever before and got down to 7 handicap having never been off single figures. The fitter was excellent and listened to what I was seeking rather than forcing his views on me. More importantly I'm enjoying my golf more than ever before.
i had a free regional fitting for sm9 today - one of the best experiences i have had using bunkers' short game area and range for gapping trying all bounces and grinds - was incredible. I think what you are discussing is fair but, i think it is down to how detailed you want to be with your fitting as a buyer. I like to take the "what if" out of my game when it comes to equipment and know i have the best tools for my swing. that may involve online research and reviews - superstore trip to look at/ try many "std clubs" then once i have whittled it down maybe a specific brand fitting. but, then having a club repairer/ club maker round the corner to make sure everything is still as it should be every 12 months. May seem overkill but, A) it is a cool experience but, B) i walk on to the course knowing that the club performance is the best it can be for me.
Wish this podcast was a lot longer, because he brought up a subject that is the most understood aspect of irons and wedges. Bravo for starting this discussion, please elaborate in the near future.
I’m going Mizuno for irons this year due to their variety of heads and the shaft analyzer- so simple. Now I did overpay for a premium fitted 3 wood LY and it is worth every penny so I believe it’s club specific.Manufactures are out designing clubs versus the real world golfers opportunity for testing clubs!
Never really fitted for Wedges as the options are mind boggling, somehow I came to buy an off the peg 60° years ago and either hit the right one for me or more likely learned to play with it and build my game around it and then have just uprated it in the same bounce and now grind to Vokey's. Did some analysis of how I play with obervers and slow mo video to see what my turf interaction was when it came to 50° and 54° but no idea if I have bought the right ones other than I am enjoying seeing an improvement in my short game over the winter.
One of the best practices I have found (if you have the opportunity) is to get out on the short game area chuck a load of balls down and just enjoy trying different shots, stances, and actions. Look at the You Tube tips and see what works but most of all enjoy trying things and experiementing and dialling them in for when you need to be creative.
I think grinds is the most difficult thing to find what you like and fit for. But that CG location of the wedge, bounce, and your strike patterns can severely be helped by fitting. Would love to see an accurate and helpful grind questionnaire from the manufacturers!
Had a wedge fitting a few years back and it really helped. Had another a couple of years ago which did the opposite. Am now back playing with my SM7’s not SM8’s
I live in a 4 season area - Cleveland, OH. I only play about 15 times per year. This means I am not at the point in my game where I have a total feel for my clubs. I typically adapt to the clubs I have. Instead of going out to get fitted or buying stock, I build my own clubs. I do this for a hobby and constantly swapping clubs in my bag just for fun.
Dude, that is awesome! I am only a hour south of you in Canton, Ohio. I am the same way where I get to to play between 10 to 15 times a season. Luckily, myself and a couple buddies have been going to 1899 golf and playing 9 holes and one round of 18 on the trackman so far. I'm hoping that this helps me by the time all this snow melts.
What equipment do you need to DIY build your own clubs? It's something I'd like to have a go at myself
@@razvanpat2211 You will need to get grip solvent, grip tape, a grip, shaft, ferrule, and club head.
Probably best golf video I ve seen of yours, well done guy.
Get fit 3 different times over 3 months and you will walk out with 3 different sets of clubs
When I had my irons fitting, they asked me which ball I usually use (Srixon AD333) and then went and got a few to use for the fitting. Thought that was a nice touch. They also had me hit the 5i and 9i in the fitting too.
Of course regards balls, you can always take your particular ball into a fitting if it's on an indoor launch monitor.
For the average weekend golfer it is a waste of time and money to get fitted. We go for the fun of playing and getting out, nobody is paying you to play. Stop trying to make golf complicated, look at the clubs Rick bought at Costco, they worked,he liked them. Have fun enjoy the game!
I think there is a truth to this. Although if you're gonna buy new clubs, fitting often comes at no extra cost. So you may as well do it.
Having said that I have just bought a PXG driver for £205 from their website and guesstimated my specs. 😄
Disagree...it helped me choose the correct model and shaft type/flex. If you're going to spend over $1k for irons, why wouldn't you spend a free hour or two to look at the Trackman metrics?
Very interesting discussion. It's very disappointing to think that I've paid high $ for my custom clubs and they could have such poor tolerances to the specifications that I was fit into. Another reason why in my opinion, these manufacturers are taking us the amateur golfer for a ride on prices with the sport going thru such a massive increase in popularity in the last couple of years. The TM Stealth driver here in Australia is now retailing for $1000 and $1100 for the Stealth Pro. These are just not prices that the majority of golfers can afford or justify spending.
It’s ridiculous isn’t it, I have the old m4 that rick just reviewed with the new m4 and stealth and it was better but slightly shorter than the stealth which as you said costs 1100 her in Australia.
I just bought a new rogue driver. I was planning on getting fitted, but decided to try out each one I was interested in at the store before doing so. I found the rogue suited me amazingly well, well enough that I was gaining 40 yards and less than 10 yards offline for 3/5 shots. Naturally I just picked it up as is. I’m starting to think that simply hitting a club is more important that seeing a pro especially for a 20 handicap like me.
Fitting makes a difference, in my view a BIG difference. I’ve been customer fitted and custom built for all my clubs since 2008. Wedges included. i I use a non standard shaft setup (Modus Tour 120’s; soft stepped) and 2 degrees flat. Agree regarding grinds and not having access to being able to test the various grinds.In terms of custom fitted versus custom built clubs. Anything that comes assembled from the main manufacturers I would always get them checked for specification.
Just been fitted today for a driver, custom fitting is a must to get optimum flight and spin. Fitting was outside using the balls I play with (TP5x)
I’m 6’4, am a beginner and have just moved from off the rack irons to fitted. One inch longer, 3 deg upright, midsize grips. The change is incredible both in terms of dispersion of shots, but more importantly things like posture!
Not everyone is standard height, standard arm/torso length and for me this is where fitting comes into its own.
I'm 170cm (5 foot 7) with a 176-177cm wing span (~5 foot 9-10). For years with a standard length club I had to grip down to almost the steel to have a comfortable and repeatable swing. Fitting helped me work out the right length and lie for me and it changed my ball striking so much.
Great snippet this one and I often queried when paying for a fitting and being expected to play a decent wedge for a set of Irons why I could only hit a 7 Iron off a perfect mat. For drivers and possibly fairway wood and hybrids fair cop as there are all the heads and shaft options but for irons it seems daft.
The loft and lie tolerances are a joke in this modern age and somewhat surprising although it would be interesting to know if this was against their off the shelf 'cheaper' models or across their whole range including the high end £130 per club + ranges !
Luckily I am Mr average and every fitting I have had I am consistently standard lie and loft and just the variable is the shaft stiffness and the head. My most successful irons were actually not fitted but I had a great shop where I could test on the range a variety of clubs, shafts and brands over a period of a few weeks.
If you have a good pro shop that stock the club you need you also have the chance they have a demo set knocking about to test drive under real conditions but these days that is rare !
Interesting, I have been fitted for clubs at precision golf and the clubs are assembled to tour standard and measured through the construction. Watching this makes me happy I spent the extra money knowing the tolerances will be miniscule if not zero. I haven't got them yet but I got vokey's and the fitter asked me about the course I play and common shots and conditions before watching me hit various shots on the trackman.
Guy is my inner golfer. Thank you, sir. I want to get fitted but who will do it at the extent to where my game needs to be or where I want it to be.
Years ago I always thought a fitting was BS, but a fitting coupled with lessons changed my game. I used to buy off the rack, but from two brand agnostic fittings in the last 3 years I now play clubs with three wraps of tape under the grip, 1/4” long, 1degree upright and a complete change in shaft profile. Tried many shaft options which is often overlooked IMO.
For me, golf improved tremendously from a 15 to a 7 during that time. Plus the fitter I ordered from rechecks everything on arrival so I know the specs are right and they recheck later and correct for free. Buying off the rack you never know.
Where I live, a full fitting is free with club purchases. They had all the woods, irons and wedge options from all major manufacturers.
I’ve also attended manufacturers demo days at our club where I listen to their fitters advice with Trackman, for free, and can try just about any club with all options available, no purchase required.
So I think it is worth it if for nothing else you know you have tools designed for you. Then if you have lessons to improve, it is for the right reasons and not compensating for the wrong equipment. Your mileage may vary! Cheers.
Having clubs slightly longer or with wraps under the grip (I have both) are pretty basic customisations. What this video was about was all the myriad of options (lie, loft, grinds, bounces, flexes, shaft weights) that club golfers get offered now. Most of whom have swings that vary wildly from shot to shot, let alone day to day. How can *really* fine tuned custom fitting have any real impact when the thing being measured (swing speed, impact position, angle of attack, swing plane and path) are widely dispersed?
As for 1° upright - Rick pointed out that the customisation tolerances are probably going to be 1° - 2° anyway, so what you think is 1° upright could be anywhere between 3° upright and 1° flat.
Interesting test: three 7-irons with 1° steps in lie angle. Blind club choice, each shot, with someone keeping track of the results. Would the shot dispersion for the three clubs be wide and 90% overlapping or tight and 10% overlapping? I'd bet my house it's the first one. Until your shot dispersion for a given club is tightly clustered, fine tuning by 1° gets blown away by the bigger, random variations in your swings.
@@amunt3r The ease and simplicity of my customizations are not the point and I also mentioned shaft fitting. The point was about the fitter determined I needed those customizations through a fitting and it made a big difference, meaning, custom fitting is not pointless. My swing can vary significantly but I'm not going to get shorter or have smaller hands.
And concerning your hypothesis with a 7 iron, instead of wondering, Trackman has all those stats available across millions of average golfers.
I also addressed the tolerances in my original post...my fitter checks the clubs on arrival. So the tolerance is not +/- 1-2 degree out the door but spot on for me, not to mention I have access to a bending machine (you'd be surprised what your clubs have moved to after a season of use). And how does anyone buy expensive clubs these days and the seller doesn't check that?
I'm also an average golfer and I don't think my swing varies widely shot to shot. I think my misses are pretty well known and documented through many lessons and Trackman. Everyone is different though and why everyone comments from their own angle on this subject, myself included. Cheers.
@@JTNMax This video is not arguing against fitting, but questioning the range of options available for the average golfer.
What use are millions of Trackman stats if you are looking at what suits your own game?
My 7 iron hypothesis is about how much variation a given club has for a given level of skill. I'd love to see you hit 20 balls uninterrupted off grass and see how far apart they end up. I'm still suspecting a wide variation in distance, direction and ball flight. Have a crack and report back.
@@amunt3r We are just giving our thoughts on a video entitled with the words custom fitting and pointless, no matter what the video says. I think we are on two different pages, but have a good one and keep on golfing!
Totally agree. I’d really like Titleist and other OEM’s to make wedge fitting more accessible to the masses.
The first fitting I had, I was looking for to choose clubs between 4 different manufactures following research I had done. The fitter was focused on selling me a set from a set of clubs from a brand I had not heard of. I ended up walking out, as the clubs he wanted to sell me felt terrible. He also tried to sell me graphite shafts because of my age. I then had a fitting from a major brand by their fitter, and he put me in steel shafts because of my swing. So fitting in my area is hit and miss on the quality of fittings available.
Getting fitted has been in the back of my mind. I was really thinking about getting it done but then I figured I should really hit the range some more and get more consistent. When I was playing my best, I had a pretty consistent swing and my misses would be pretty much the same, but after not playing as much, I basically have consistent misses with not enough consistent good strikes, and I seem to have developed a bit of pull that I need to sort out before I think about fitting. I've been playing the same clubs for over a decade, so I doubt it's the clubs at this point. If things improve over the course of the season, then I may think about some replacement clubs and getting fitted for 2023. I won't be able to play on-course until mid-April up here in the Great White North, haha, but I'll be hitting the sim as much as I can to get ready and work out my issues, if that's possible!
The idea of a fitting is to get clubs fit best for you, and a set of clubs that are fit correctly for you when you go into the fitting with a fundamentally sound, consistent swing will 100% give you better results over time than ones that aren’t. Where it gets hit and miss is people going for fittings when their game is in bad shape and so they are fit to combat bad swing tendencies that may not be the norm for them. i.e if you keep hitting it off the toe you might get fitted with clubs with a certain lie angle, but then when you start hitting out of the centre that lie angle is now causing you issues
This. If you have a consistent repeatable swing then fitting is definitely worth it... However if you are starting up, have swing inconsistencies or have severe holes in your swing then full custom fit is totally pointless... What would be better in these scenarios is lessons and advice from the pro over clubs/shafts & a bag build that would better suited to that persons game. Lessons will help out fix swing problems & get on the right path. If & when enough improvement is made then maybe a customer fit can take place.
As a fairly good golfer i just went fitting for a driver and shaft.... of course i choosed that head suited my eye down at the ball... and a shaft with a great feel up to my fingers = as in not a hard impatct ... wasn't the straightest of most steady choice BUT i know for a fact i can work with it on the range ... study that club as it is and make it fit me perfectly.... My irons i bought of the shelf cause of looks down at the ball with a shaft that i believed fits me (it does) .... then practice.... practice... practice... ;)
I'm very fortunate. I'm 5'10" average built, a little old (68), and in my golfing life I've always had everything regular - regular loft, regular lie, regular flex shaft, standard grip. Nothing out of the way. It's allowed me to buy and play clubs off eBay and play them right away. I've never been fitted for any clubs, and I've never felt the need to be fitted. But that's just me, others might be different.
I am 6’0” and always been regular as well - shaft, lie, grip, etc. Wonder where ”official” regular variations are, but all-regular has always worked for me. Never been fitted, but still play with 4,8 hcp. Perhaps I will get fitted in the future.
My dad is a retired PGA pro, and I was a collegiate golfer at a high level. In the '70s, you made the clubs work. My dad carried about 5 to 12 sets in the pro shop. You could try them on the range. If the feel was good and the looks fit your eye, you bought them. My dad sold lots of clubs, and he would go out to the range with the buyer and give them a mini-lesson. They often found some improvement (at least from the lesson) and would therefore buy the clubs. You made things work, not the other way around.
Best comment yet.......i used to play scratch golf but have not played for 10 years until recently taking my son to the range as he is 5 and thought I might see if he enjoys it.....my dad his grandad turned up who plays weekly with a set of mp5 mizunos custom fit for him...i grabbed a club out of curiosity to see how well I could still strike a ball. After 2 hits I knew just by how the shaft and head weight felt and how the ball left the face what i needed to do and then every strike after was pretty much perfect out the middle and struck sound....because I came from a time where we adjusted to the equipment just like you said. I was hitting punishing bladed 1 irons when I was 10 yrs old and learnt how to shape the ball and manipulate the golf shot. My dad commented that I still have great hands after all these years upon leaving but like you back in the day you had to have educated hands to adjust to different clubs.
I play off scratch and haven’t had much luck with fittings , tend to buy a set of irons I like and do lie angle checks with sharpie line on ball on course , don’t think we re good enough to notice 1degree out as not consistent enough ,
I have had issues with clubs in the past where fitting didn’t equate to the clubs spec sent.. my current set are Ping i210’s and on arrival I checked loft and lies and they were spot on.. the hardest club to fit I’ve found are fairway woods purely because little to no fitters carry X flex fairway wood shafts. American golf at Trafford had not one single 5 or 7 wood in an X flex shaft, I even went to a titleist fitting day and couldn’t get fitted.. the fitter said if the flight goes left with a softer shaft the same in X flex should be ok.. 🙈🙈
I have been fitted by using the mizuno swing analyzer and it has been pretty spot on. I have played my mizuno mp25 since they came out. I recently ordered the 223 in standard loft and lies. But any time I get a new set of irons I have the golf shop check loft and lies. I normally change out out my irons every 8-10 years and play to a 2...
I was also fitted at Mizuno using the swing analyzer and love the clubs, I went in owning another brand with graphite regular lights shafts that were fitted by a club Pro and came out with Steel stiff 120gram shafts - I honestly thought Mizuno had done it wrong and asked the Pro to redo the analyzer which he happily did and it was spot on - I don't think I would go anywhere else now for a fitting!
I think that most good golf shops can put you on a lie board and if they are forged or at least soft enough to bend you can set each one. It might cost a bit but we’ll worth it. Custom from even Titleist does not guarantee uniformity with your irons. Great show Rick!
TXG in Canada. Fitting, plus a loft and lie check of each club once they arrive. They do it proper 🤙🏻
Great chat, sounds like everyone needs a trip to see Nick at TourX
There are local clubs that provide outdoor fittings for wedges. Launch monitor, out of the rough, green side and out of the bunkers. It was a great experience and even turned out to be a bit of a short game lesson.
I'm a fitter. I've seen a few sets from a major manufacturer have a tolerance of +/-2* lie angle and 1.5 loft. In the same set the 5 iron was 1* weak and 2* upright. The 6 iron was 2* strong and 1* flat. The client said the gap from 5 to 6 irons were 3 yards and the 5 pulled left, the 6 pushed right (RH golfer).
When I got them fixed, he said it was like a completely new set. Too bad he used them for 2 years before coming to see me.
Do you frequency match shafts?
@@2aSprite I do everything. Frequency match, pure/spline, swing weight checks etc. Depending on what the client wants. Truthfully, many people can't tell the finitie differences but some have a very keen feel and know their preferences
@@golffit3066 Perhaps most can't feel the difference....but if shafts have different frequency one club head maybe slightly open and another slightly closed at point of impact....I figure if the clubs are properly sorted then the golfer is the only variable? Generally...clubs off the rack are all over the shop...even the expensive ones
24 handicapp here and went for fitting. Been fitted for the same irons at 2 different places. 1 fitting was 1degree flat the other 2degree upright. Biggest prob I have with the fitting is it really depends on what why I'm swinging that day.
I'm sorry man, but 1* flat to 2 upright ? 🤣 I hope you work it all out...soon :)
@@eggsmann594 it started at 2 uprite and I've had a few lessons in between the fittings. Likely the cause of the now 1 falt lol. But just goes to show how quick that can change
Thanks for the honesty. My first set was second hand and missing the 8 iron. Until I learned to hit the ball consistently with those clubs getting new clubs wasn't even a thought. I'm 58 and was only 10 when I got that first set. They were blades cause really almost everything was back then. Until you are hitting the ball consistently getting fitted for new clubs is a waste of time and money. If you can't consistently get decent contact with the ball the latest head or shaft tech will not help you. A poor craftsman blames his tools. Fittings and fancy new clubs should be a reward for learning to swing correctly and consistently. Until then it's just a waste of time and money. Learning on crappy second hand blades forces you to get the fundamentals right. Spend your money on lessons and range balls.....lots of range balls. I believe I could play a decent round of golf with 50 year old blades today. I'd lose some distance but I would still find the center of the club face. That's what learning on crappy second hand clubs gets you.
The wedge chat is interesting. I just went and replaced my vokey lob wedge and the fitting to me is invaluable, but only because I know my game and have used Vokeys for a while. I know I can get a bit steep and a bit fat, but I do like to open the face up around the greens. This combined with the fitters knowledge led to 10 bounce and an s grind. The problem is though, that without my experience it would not have been possible to do the fitting on an indoor mat which is forgiving to heavy shots
i went to tour x for my clubs was fully fitted id hope they were spot on for what i needed tour x is up there as one of the best fitting centre's around
As one getting back into golf with very little knowledge of the industry and some swing problems, but with some stated goals for my game, a coach / club fitter made a huge difference for me.
I had my new bag fit to me, and the differences were stark and gave me so much confidence out on the course. For me the main benefit was the expertise in helping me talk through what I thought I wanted and why and then putting the numbers and dispersions in front of me when we found a solution that worked. I will add though, if you can get by someone who coaches you and knows your swing well it will make a big difference and help ensure you get a better fit.
Honestly I am hitting golf clubs I've never been fitted for 100x times better after just two lessons. I still got a long way to go and maybe getting fitted would help me along even further, but I feel like 90% of it at least comes from learning how to swing properly. The only time I'd consider fitting over lessons first is if you have actual physical limitations or discomforts when you're playing. No point in playing the game if it hurts.
Another option is finding an instructor that also does fittings as well. He or she will know you a lot better, know where your swing is at now and where it will be in the future and tailor your gear accordingly. Probably a better option than going to the PGA Tour Superstore where they don't know you or your swing.
@Wooper I would never put a fitting over lessons, but why not do both? Nothing wrong with getting your specs so you know you have the right tools for the job.
You can get a fit at a demo day for free on Trackman (hopefully with your pro/instructor watching) so not a bad thing to get your specs checked as you progress. You don't want lessons trying to compensate for wrong equipment, just my opinion. Cheers.
Had my fitting with Alex at Orka golf. everything is checked to your speck prior to them being sent out. There is also a lifetime loft and lie service Orka provide, all you di is send them back and they will adjust the loft and lie back to your fitting speck. They have a weight port in the hosel to assist with zero tolerance build quality.
Me too 👍🏻
I got fitted for Ping i210s. Traded them in for G410s and play them just as well if not better since they are more forgiving. I just take lessons and go for shaft weight consistency and proper gapping.
Where you get your fitting is a very important component. My full bag fitting at True Spec in San Diego was all off grass as well as some bunker shots. Had I gone to True Spec in Beverly Hills it would have been indoor and not as effective IMO in terms of the wedge fitting and turf interaction of the irons and wedges. In regard to the tolerances etc...that's why it's strongly recommended to go in for a gap testing once you receive your clubs. Any tweaks to the individual clubs will be made there and will be made based on your gaps rather than just what they were supposed to be set at coming from the shop. Got fit for these clubs almost three years ago and it's pretty incredible how much a properly fit and properly gapped set of clubs changed my game. I take them in to have the specs checked each year and tweaked if needed.
Being a 6'3" golfer I have been fit mulitpul times for different brands and they always come to the same outcome for my swing so I would say it is important to be fitted. With that said I am 3⁰ up and 1/2" added. I did not know the tolerances were that large for customs. That is insane. That is really unacceptable.
Yeah I'm the same but +1 and drivers aren't cheap
I always have my loft/lies checked when I get new irons. There are usually a couple that are off + - 1 degree.
I was fit for Ping 13 blades years ago and was determined to be 1 degree flat Red code. I am not 1 degree flat at 5 feet 11". Possibly 62 or 62.5 lie 37 inch shaft. I can handle most modern S flex, but aging and R flex is easier to hit overall and easier on the body and hands I think most go in with their own ideas and the fitter is left with figuring out that mess also.
I was fitted for a set of irons today. Not only did the fitting help me decide which brand/model to select, it clearly helped me choose the correct shaft (and potentially avoid an absolute disaster). There's not a snowball's chance in hell I would've been able to choose the correct irons without the fitting. I do agree that with limitation that you're not going through each iron in the set...I needed to know the yardage I'd be hitting the 4 iron in order to determine which hybrids to buy, but was left to guess.
How do you know the fitting has helped you if you haven't played with them?
To test the fitting process, you'd have to compare your results - same set of clubs off the shelf vs same set with custom fitting, over multiple range sessions / rounds without you knowing which was which.
My point is: once you get past basic fitting options like length and shaft flex / weight, fine tuning is largely salesmanship and psychology.
Craigelaw Titleist fitting Centre! Thorough test, gapping and no pressure to buy. Must admit we didn’t sample in the sand, which I regret not asking! but overall very happy.
I agree with your point. I’ve told the lead designers that I don’t see how it fitting works due to tolerance and the minor adjustments that have to happen. Especially drivers. You get fit with a 9* that is actually 10.2 and then the 9 and then an 8.6 arrives. Face angles vary also. You need to get fit for a club and keep that club for it to be precise. I do think it’s good to order length and lie for irons unless you can order them un gripped and un cut. If you bought them from a store then have them check the specs before you take them home. Just makes it easier to play when they arrive to your house until you can get them checked. I’ve broke par with a set of king snakes before and my buddies woods and putter. Better players adapt and can usually play anything. If I was to go to a fitting I would expect the ball I use and a loft lie machine on the range to dial in spin and launch. Mostly only indoor fitting can provide that. But still a good start. Just some ramblings.
I’ve never been professionally fit for anything. I’m 64 and have played since I was about 11 years old. I know my swing tendencies so I kind of know what I need or at least close enough for me. I recently bought new wedges and I have a fairly steep delivery so I got the bounce and grind most suited for my needs. They’ve been great so far. I’m a 4 handicap and it’s mainly lack of practice and focus that stops me from being lower.
If you establish a repeatable swing it’s well worthwhile. For instance, if someone is taller, playing standard length irons would create posture issues (because you’d have to widen your stance) as well as the ball going right even on wells struck shots. Consequently someone playing irons too flat will cause issues with hand position and potentially impact near the hosel (aka the lateral shot). The iron shaft itself contributes to better launch angle. Older players sometimes need more flex etc to keep playing.
I would say "YES". Custom fitting generally means out-pf-pocket cost ($$$). I prefer 'demo days' in the United States. Most people have a predisposition about what clubs they want to buy, then it really boils down to shaft, and what is the best fit. I have to admit that TXG set me up with their presentation of Ventus shafts and it has worked for me.
I have struggled with driver throughout my 25 years of golfing, that was until I paid for a professional driver fitting (not a golf club retailer), where we tried multiple brands, shaft flexes, shaft weights, lofts, etc and analysed the results … the outcome was definitive with a club I swung faster with longer and straighter results. Over the past 18 months, I have dropped from 15 to 10 handicap, a big part of which is my driver, which I use confidently in the knowledge that there is nothing else that suits me better.
how much you paid for the entire service package?
@@liutasil1108 $79 Australian dollars, worth every cent
I agree with the comments on the wedges. I was fitted for my irons and would definitely do it again. Thought I knew what I wanted but Pro advice resulted in getting a different set, best advice ever. Huge improvement in trajectory which has resulted in much better scoring.
I’d like to know the brands and their respective tolerances, especially as I’m in the market for some irons.
If you plan to buy new clubs, it makes sense to get them fitted since its usually free when you buy clubs. I also was able to get fitted for my putter at zero cost since my existing putter worked well - after a quick lie change.
if the manufacturer tolerances are wider than the usual variation, then it does leave the question of whether you're getting what you paid for.
As a mid handicap. Been golfing all through high school and im picking ive started playing hardcore since my military service. My opinion is that. I personally dont think one degree is going to make a world of difference. At a high level maybe. But with that being said. Im inlove with the idea of having clubs custom fit to me. Because with the prices of new clubs i may use that set of clubs for years. Or until something breaks. Ive also used the Lazarus wedges and I absolutely love them i just had to change the grips because i didnt like them. And those are cheap! I play with a set of mizuno tour pro clubs from like the mid 2000’s with the exception of my hybrids and driver and wedges. And i love then they are great clubs. Consistent and forgiving.
The loft and lie tolerance is scary. I grew up when fitting was unheard of. You learned to use the tools at hand. Last year I got fitted for a set of P7MBs to replace my trusty Hogan Apex PC irons. Yes, I can hit them just fine. Prior to my fitting, I was able to take clubs off the rack out to their range and hit them, so I was not going in to my fitting blind. Basically any club on the wall could be checked out to try - but off a matt only.
I spent most of the time trying shafts to get the feel I was after. I tried a variety of blades, and the P7MBs just had the Goldilocks look and feel. Even on a matt, you could tell the turf interaction was a big improvement. I was hitting range balls out into the range from a Trackman bay, so launch, spin or distance were whatever. I could at least see the ball flight.
My clubs had always been standard lie, so when the fitter said I should go 2 degrees flat, I backed off to 1.5 so as not to change my ball flight too much. This now seems laughable. Grips are a big factor I was not able to test, and I'm thinking of noodling with this on one club to see if I can find something better. What I have is just OK.
Wedge fitting, not. I did check out Hogan wedges on a try before buy basis, and this was great. I was not able to try their Texas Grind, but I got it on my 58 and am happy. Great on tight lies. It took a few bunker shots to get the bounce right.
So do you think for irons, buy off the shelf after trying them out, then take them for an eval and gapping session to have them adjusted to your tendencies to eliminate the “acceptable tolerance errors” from the mfgr?
There is enough information online about spin/ Launch angle/ball speed/club adjustments that I was amply informed going into our Golftown store to try different Drivers off the shelf to give me the numbers I was happy with. I ended up with a Callaway driver that suited my swing and have used it for two years with a stock shaft and am extremely happy. I'm sure if I went to a fitter and we changed shafts I may increase yardage by a few yards and maybe tighten up my consistency a little but for the cost of a fitting and shaft I personally don't think it's worth it.
Here in Australia 🇦🇺, Titliest fittings are free and you can book yourself online. Fitters travel to various courses in different regions and you can absolutely do a wedge fitting on grass and in bunkers. They can then be ordered to your specs via your local store or golf club. I believe some other major brands are accessible for free fittings also, but need to be booked in by a store or maybe your club. There’s absolutely nothing to lose by getting fitted for your pride and joys!
*also, I definitely don’t work for a golf company or in the industry; but I personally found Titliest to be the easiest to fit with, and have the best customer service (all without paying a cent!)
Kinda perfect timing as I have been fit in the past by a “professional fitting store/fitting center” and not happy with result…
just went to Mizuno fitting event at local range with NO launch monitor but they used their shaft optimizer 3D and within 10 minutes I knew I found the right club and shaft for me just based on how I was hitting it
Driver I am totally lost but really good point on the irons
I feel like it also depends on the specialties of a person ie height- so clubs will be a different length or strength so clubs will be a different weight and shaft. But I feel like a good service should be through the club fitter to make sure this specs are up to par so if I’m fit for a degree flat lie angle and it’s not just give it a quick bend to fix the problem or make sure the shafts are the right length and fix the problem
To me, custom fitting has a sweet spot. When you're a pretty serious golfer who is transitioning from that 15-20 handicap and making your way down to scratch-4 or so, custom fitting will help. Once you get down to scratch, at least for most golfers, you'll pretty much know where you're swinging, whether you're flat or upright, whether you need stiff or x stiff, what lofts suit you best, etc. There was a time that custom fitting would have helped me a lot, but now I feel like I've played so much and know my swing so well that I can pretty much fit myself
Agreed, but the shaft options don't just stop at stiff/x stiff - I just got fitted for some new irons, mainly because I wanted to try loads of shafts and find the best one. There are shaft fitting tools online, but they don't account for feel the one I was suggested felt far too laggy at transition so I discarded it straight away
@@andrewmoncaster3023 yeah I was just using examples lol
Human error will always over shadow any minor gains you may get from having full custom fitted golf clubs. I play off 4 and generally play with second hand clubs. Ability will always give more gains than shiny new fitted golf clubs.
Used clubs are the move. It you’re spending 20- 30% of retail, the slightly worn grooves aren’t that big of a deal when you can sharpen them yourself
You’d probably be a 1/2 if you had fitted clubs then lol. Unless those second hand clubs happen to be fitted perfectly for you
@@Ricardo-ur5os mate. I’ve been fitted several times. Difference is minimal. I’ve been fitted by Ping at Gainsborough and by an ex TM Tour Truck expert. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing and if people want to do it, crack on. What I’m saying is that fitted golf clubs will not overcome your massive in to out swing or negative attack angle. 95% of golfers will see minimal gains from fitted golf clubs.
David Ross Yeah there’s no denying that, my point was more that you’re a good player so in my opinion the lower handicap you are the more you should have fitted clubs. Since to be a low single figure you have to have at least a reasonably fundamentally sound golf swing
@@LogieBear8437 same ive done both u may see marginal gaines on a launch monitor but on the golf course and when what u put on that score card counts ive seen no difference atall, infact ive played some of my best ever golf with off the shelf clubs
When I was playing my best golf I was a 3 handicap. I always played stock lie, plus 1/2”. Within reason I could make just about any club work when hitting on a lie board. I think getting the right shaft is the most important piece of the puzzle.
Totally agree with your comment 👍 its all about feel for me give me a shaft that allows me to feel the club head and I can manipulate just about any club to get it back to the ball square time after time....i was a scratch golfer before I packed the game in and I get so frustrated seeing friends now that have poor swings and buy into the whole club fitting thing in hope this will straighten there game up???? I appreciate not everybody is gifted with feel and finesse etc or have good hands but really a sound swing should be built before a club.
Got a set of kirkland wedges love them
The ceremonial aspect of life has always been of interest. The 'ceremony' of fitting is no exception.
Some great points here. Kudos to Guyson DeCharnock for bringing up this discussion and doing his homework.
I have been fitted for my last three sets of Mizuno Irons. If you play more than 30 rounds you should get fitted, it will make playing more fun. George in Montana USA
The key is going to a fitter that assembles the shaft, head and grip to their tolerances like a tour truck would. I'm thinking of going to a fitter that tests the shafts for the shaft manufacturers with their proprietary equipment and can select shafts that all match.
What is the best way to get back into golf after winter? I am 20-23 handicap (not officially). I went from 120 year 1, 105 year 2, so 91-99 year 4. There was an injury year 3. What is the best way to get back into the next season without losing progress in your opinions?
This video is why I opened my golf center. As a former club builder for a major brand. I know how golf club tolerances are and what is and is not exceptional. So I agree 100% of what you discussed in this video. But disagree 100% with the title of this video. Let me explain. Here is a dirty little secret that the OEM’s don’t want you to know. It’s not cost effective to perfectly fit each play like they would do on a tour van for flex, lie, loft and swing weight. But if you bring your off the shelf clubs to me or a custom shop like mine. Witch is very rare to find in a city near you. I will make sure your clubs are 100% with a tolerance on “0” in flex, lie, loft and swing weight. I will be starting my CZcams channel as soon as our new golf center location is done without construction and explain first hand on subjects like this. Thank you.
there are so many choices now with grinds and lofts and club types and brands i have no idea where to start. so i started with picking up whatever last year's unsold models were (for a huge discount) or demo version clubs (also for a huge discount) and spent money on lessons or practice/play time.
after a lot of fixing my golf swing, my coach said to me, maybe it's worth looking at getting more "appropriate" clubs for me. at least maybe get wedges that are all from the same manufacturer/generation so i can have better distance control... It was ONLY at that point where a golf fitting made sense for me. after the fitting, the results that came out matched what rick and other youtubers have found: shaft flex doesn't really matter. i just needed a more weighted club and a slightly thicker grip to help keep my swing more under control.
the grinds, for my lack of skill, don't make any difference to me, specifically not what the manufacturer claims they can do. 98% of the issues is me, and maybe 2% was equipment.
Sad that iron fittings are solely based off a 7 Iron throughout the 1 hour fitting and then they pitch in shafts and grips.
Very important!!
If you do go in, know what loft you want for all your irons, shafts you want/need base on your club speed, and talk a lot about what you are doing wrong and want to achieve.
This is why I think demo programs can be so helpful. You can wait for them to have all the options in stock and you get to actually play a course with the clubs using your ball.
I hear you with the tolerance dilemma, but wouldn’t a proper fitter check the angles once they arrive and make the adjustments needed to meet the custom spec?
I love Titleist vokey wedges and had multiple versions in earlier SM era 4/5 etc. The modern versions with 8 million grind options puts me off buying them. I play different courses with different grasses / softness of land etc so I’m conscious I’ll end up getting the wrong version. Too many options for the average golfer is off putting
Paralysis by analysis
It’s also all variety in what are effectively blades, no variety in terms of wedges with cavity backs. I think Cleveland offer much more genuine choice for wider ability levels
It’s really not that hard, the degrees of bounce you should determine by your course conditions, firmer go for less bounce, softer go for higher bounce. Grinds should be determined on how you like to play shots, mostly square face shots go for something like F or K. If you like to open and close the face go for m or d. They have a thing in their website where you put in info and it recommends wedges for you
Do they have a version that’s more versatile for different kinds of conditions?
@@jordancalanchini3496 well for anyone that lives on planet earth we have something called weather wich means the firmness of the ground varies alot. And with wedges people usually want to hit a variety of shots not just one way so then these amount of options are off putting making people think they are getting the wrong set up i know so many people that hate all those options its too confusing
Golf courses and conditions are so varied in the UK , you would need a bag of wedges according to Titleist.
It is even worse if you are left handed because you dont always get the same range availability that right handed golfers get, I looked at wedges and there was probably only 20% of the choice in left hand compared to right hand. I had an experience at a big retailer when i was looking for a putter they only had one left handed putter in the store, I asked how was i meant to try any and they said well you can order one and if its not right you can return it. Some will say that there is lefthandedgolf at Silvermere Golf club, but that is 3 or 4 hour drive away from where i am.
Never had a good experience fitting. I now find the clubs that I like, review them then hit them to see what feels the best. I play to an 8 and strike the ball good, but not perfect. I just think if your swing is not completely grooved in then you have to go with what feels best to you. I know I'm upright, so I'll get the clubs bent or order them that way and have them measured. With driver, I hit a bunch of clubs w/different shaft combos and choose the one w/the best dispersion and has good distance. I have a 2nd swing near me which allows me to test multiple clubs.
You spend upwards of $1,400.00 on a set of irons, your retailer spends 5 minutes and checks the lofts and lies as delivered from the factory. Not very difficult. My store does it on every set we sell upon request.
@Theoriginalpfsgators I was thinking the same thing. Where does everyone shop that does not check the specs from the factory?
Great convo. Gotta go to a zero tolerance workshop ✌️☘️
You guys could collab / have a chat with ForeGolf Custom 👍
You can have your fitter check the lie and lofts for you when they come in. I worked as a fitter and would check peoples lie and loft on ordered clubs to make sure they were perfect.
I had a a fitting a few years ago and the fitter said it's for everyone. I disagree, if your a 28 handicap what benefit do you get from a fitting. Much better getting lessons before deciding where you want to take your game.
Tom Wishon disagrees and I trust that man a lot. I think the problem with most fittings, is that there is not enough customisation. You have two options off the rack.
100% agree, I got fitted when I started playing a couple of years ago before I’d had a lesson. Got fit with apex irons and project x shafts, I’m down to playing off 3 now with a very different swing to when I was originally fit. I still hit them well but would be interested to get fit again and see what changes.
@@choppersdog1300 The other thing to bear in mind is that some clubs are designed to be customised and some clubs aren't. A good set of irons will take several loft and lie adjustments, along with swapping shafts. So you can tailor them as your swing evolves.
I think Driver and Irons is very important to know what shaft/head/lie angle fits you best. I am a believer with irons when you find something that works though don’t fix it.
I totally agree on wedges for me it’s how the club looks down by the ball nothing else matters outside of lofts. You can give me any wedge and I’d make it work it just depends on looks for me. Fitting a wedge seems asinine to me
wouldn't an Iron fitting be able to identify the correct Lie that i need? to then have adjusted. I had to have a set of irons made for me due to my height and figured I would be able to fix as needed...? any help would be appreciated
I was fitted for Wedges last year, had the chance to tzry everything I wanted to test! But this was a tour player fitter. Obviously I am not but he fitts Tour Players!
I ordred my PXG 2 degree flat. They were all over the place.. Ended up having go send them back to get them bent properly.
The place I’m going for my fitting is $500. It’s 5 days- 2 (1hour lessons), 2 days of fitting, and 1 day after the new clubs come for final analysis and lesson. This all utilizes both live hitting and digital analysis.
I’d say that’s worth it
as an engineer i'm genuinely shocked by the poor tolerances in a sport that prides itself on hi-tech equipment (and not cheap equipment either!)
So strange for an engineer to constantly tell everyone they're an engineer. Try and live the rest of your life without mentioning it. Thanks from everyone around you in advance
@@BandyBorehole I’m a vegetarian and I disapprove this message. Lol
@@BandyBorehole I get it, but in this case I can see the relevance. I mean, if this had been a video about rainbows and he had mentioned it...we would all be on him.
Give him a break. I actually agree. When you spend ridiculous money on equipment making audacious claims, buying a more conservative option and getting it fitted makes sense, in addition to coaching.
@@BandyBorehole the things is, the "E-word" is very relevant for this topic/video... without mentioning it I would just be another layperson spouting off an unqualified/unjustified opinion on a subject they probably don't understand well enough to comment on - sorry if that hits a nerve ;)
I started playing during the summer of 2021 and have maybe played around 14 rounds with an old set of my Dads from our garage, I’m looking to buy my own new set of irons shortly, do you think it is worth me getting fitted for these?
The problem is “customer fitting” for irons in my experience is that most major retailers only stock a 7 iron - it’s pointless because we know there’s more people that can hit their mid/low irons and not their long irons. It’s the golf industry that’s letting us down by not stocking a low/mid/high irons (4i/7i/PW) to most retailers.
My idea for a fitting would be on the course. However, I understand that’s not viable due to xyz reasons.
A question: if you were to order a custom clubs, how regularly do you should you do a loft and lie check?
I've been golfing since i was 10 and got partially fitted at 20yrs old. I'm 5'10 and 160lbs so quite standard and good for off the rack. For the 10 years since i used clubs with Project X 6.0 shafts as a single digit handicap. However i was never able to hit even a 6 iron decently in the air. Its been a huge hinderance in my game because i often play from around 7,000yrds and long irons are needed regularly.
Finally this year i went to get fitted again because i knew my swing was good enough to hit a long iron. The biggest change we made was to try Nippon Modus 130 shafts which are meant to go in the air. I also went to irons with no offset because my bad shots hooks. Within 10 rounds i have improved my iron play tremendously! My scores are dropping from around 80 to mid 70s! I feel like a complete idiot for not taking fitting more seriously.
The factory produces clubs with a tolerance, that's normal, it's then up to the retailer to check the loft/lie when the clubs arrive and adjust to your specs. This happens with musical instruments as standard, and should with golf clubs too.