Doesn't matter whether your pre Trib, mid Trib or post Trib. Nothing will happen to Believers that is apart from God's Will. We can rejoice in this knowledge.
I'm hoping for a pre-trib rapture, but preparing for tribulation. I am unable to fully commit to either argument, I think there is merit to both. Either way, my eternal salvation is secure, but I'm doing what I can to prepare for hard times. Glory be to God.
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I’m 75 now, and wisdom comes with age! I’ve been living the life of Job since Oct 11/ 2001. God hasn’t forsaken me and is ever present with me. If in faith I quote scripture, He follows it with signs and wonders. God took my drivers license from me in 2002 for not wearing a seat belt ticket. I Praise God, as I have learned, the LORD gives and the LORD takes away, Blessed be the name of the LORD, He’s God, I Am not! He has a right to do as He pleases, though I have suffered much, I know He will some day, just like Job, give me double everything Satan has stolen from me. I know He will, because I have confessed it in faith, knowing God honors His word (which Jesus is!) When God chosen, I will receive, just like Job, houses and lands and cars and everything Satan stole, as Gods word is true. I will wait until my change comes and until then, I must Praise God, who is LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, Almighty God is He. Jesus is, according to Isaiah, the Everlasting Father, as well as the Prince of Peace. Praise God forevermore! Amen. Love in Christ Jesus, Bill
I praise God that my salvation isn't dependent on my belief in a theory, but on the fact that Jesus Christ took my sins away ON THE CROSS! I am born again, washed in His shed blood, and I will meet Him one day. The timing of that day, only God knows. Spread the Gospel to all and pray that His harvest will be plentiful.
The timing of Christ's 2nd coming is clearly revealed in the Scriptures: Jesus called it , "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54). Daniel called it, "The End of the Days", and reported a blessing for those who will be alive, 1335 days after the daily sacrifices have been terminated (Dan 12:13), in a temple not yet built. This event-driven, variable-method of prediction is similar to how Daniel also revealed the time of Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem. However, like before Christ's first coming, religious leaders argue among themselves, because some want to believe what they want to believe, despite being contradicted by holy, God-breathed, inerrant Scripture (2Tim 3:16).
Grumpy Grandma , You better be willing to endure the Great Tribulation if your Physical Body does not die before then , because there is no such thing as a return of Jesus Christ before the Great Tribulation . That is not going to happen . Jesus said He that endured unto the end , the same shall be saved
I love listening to different perspectives on Biblical matters among Christians! It just shows how finite we are compared to a great God we have. The important thing is to be ready and prepared to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, which involves being united in love.🙏🙂
I no longer agonize over this topic. It will be what it is going to be. Focus on your walk with God; faithfulness is the requirement no matter the circumstance.
The Bible plainly teaches that when the trumpet sounds the dead in Christ will rise first then His Church will rise to meet Him in the air! Jesus then returns 7 years later to the Mount of Olives to set up His Kingdom. I am going up in the Rapture because we are not appointed to Gods Wrath! Praise God!
I used to be Catholic so I was post tribulation, since leaving the catholic church I've started taking the Bible literally, and am now pre tribulation. I'll give just a few reasons why, first Christ Himself told us to pray that we were counted worthy to escape all these things Luke 21:36. 2nd the doctrine of imminence, this was a big one for me. All through the New Testament it tells us that Christ comes as a thief in the night He could come at anytime, after the desecration of abomination we Could mark on a calendar when Christ will return this is in the old and new testament. This is like the last one Christ comes as a thief in the night but also as the lighting flashes from east to west every eye will see Him this sounds like two separate events. There are many many more examples I'd recommend Chuck missler study on this it's very well done. Post-trib is catholic doctrine and didn't exist until the late 6th century, the early church was expecting to be ruptured before the tribulation
John 16 vs 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. John 15 vs 20 "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" Revelation 20 vs 4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 1 Thessalonians 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed for thousands of years, starting with John the Baptist, so how then can Jesus save everyone from going through tribulation when they have already gone through it!?
Were the Israelites appointed to the wrath, No. They saw it but were protected through it. So it will be. The entire concept that the rapture happens before the trib cannot be correct. Not appointed to wrath means God's wrath. the first 3.5 years is man's wrath against believers, not God's. So at the very least, you should be mid-trib, if not post trib
Post-trib has always been plainly clear to me. It’s hard for me to see how others can’t see that, but I think people tend to believe what feels good to them rather than what the text plainly says. Sometimes truth is hard to swallow. Also, I think people confuse tribulation with wrath. In my understanding, the tribulation is the difficult time leading up to Christ’s return when we experience the mark of the beast, antichrist, etc but clearly after the tribulation when we are raptured, God will destroy all evil and pour out His wrath which we will not experience. His wrath is not meant for us, but tribulation and wrath are different from what I can see unless I’m missing something. I’ve enjoyed your videos and am trying to understand amillenialism. My hangup with it is Rev 20 says the first resurrection consists of those who didn’t take the mark of the beast, but the mark of the beast doesn’t happen until time of tribulation so how can first resurrection be our initial salvation? Would love any insight you have on this. Also, I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where it says something about 7 yrs of tribulation. Can you help me understand why people say 7 years?
@@georgeo785 Bravo George, these people frustrate me because they are not very detail oriented. They not only butcher the proper division, but it leads to the improper application of "...hold fast which is good". I wish these people would humble themselves and let Dr. Ruckman and Dr Gene Kim teach them step by step.
I agree with previous comment, they seem to be trying to divide.... Shame I hope no one believes that crap! Jesus coming very soon, pls repent & change ways 🙏
The pretrib is a lie from hell. The scripture clearly states its after the tribulation of those days. It clearly states that it will not come til the falling away (apostasy) and revealing of antichrist and abomination. It clearly states last Trump. (Only one) Besides the Bible, you rapture guys will be among the starving and confused and unprepared as the tribulation hits. It's at the door. And yall haven't prepared. Cause you think we're whisped away
Yes, Luis, you will care very much when it is. If it were during or after the tribulation, if you lived, you would be experiencing literal hell on earth. Anyone who pretends that doesn't matter to them is either ignorant or lying.
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Okenshield69 I see and understand Luis through a different set of eyes. Meaning: personally ( through JESUS) I do not fear, DEATH, nor CATASTROPHIC global events wheather such events be before or after seal 6.. [ It appears ] most Christians are afraid of dealing with 'normal' daily trials, so to think they will have to deal will such event as seal 6 and thereafter. Welllll ! The NAVY SEALS never look forward to a battle never-the-less he prepare his WHOLE body and mind for the worst of battles even if he die.
Do you want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. The last 3.5 the worst. The tribulation is for Jewish people and not Christians. These guys are clueless
I lived in the days of the labor pains. They were getting closer and the feeling of darkness was closing in. The fear and upset was gripping me tight. I could not take it anymore and humbled myself in worship at the alter. I was changed. I was already saved many years but this time I knew I had to get rid of every last bit of darkness in my heart. No more lies not even white ones as they feel wrong and dark. God loves the truth and there is nothing to be ashamed of and I no longer have any intentions that are not motivated by unconditional love that is bigger than my own. He does this for me. I have no more anxiety or fear. I have joy unspeakable and I have discernment. I have empathy for anyone separated by sin because I know they suffer. I can not stand to see a person suffer or to even hear about it but It compels me to help wherever I can. I am compelled to share the gospel in an encouraging way that people can relate to. They can relate to the heart in their hearts and we can reach them only with Christs love. Matthew 22 34 to 40. I was baptized in fire. The old self dead and it was is if it came unexpectedly as If I was raptured. The change is extreme. I was even physically healed. I carry an ability to encourage people and leave them grinning ear to ear in love with the Lord as they experience the Lords Spirit. I dreamed about this many time in my life and now I live it wondering what miracle I will see or be part of next. So much has happened so quickly. My relationships have been healed. Some even delivered. Some manifest when I am with them. Some can not look me in the eye anymore. Some are delivered easily, Some not and it takes prayer and fasting and Gods help to reach their hearts. Go forth and expect more than what you expect from yourself if you are a child of God. He has so much more for you.
Please pray for me. I need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone near me that is, so no one to lay hands on me to pray in the Spirit. I have spinal cord damage that left me a paraplegic. Please pray for healing as well. Thank you in advance!
@@elainewat2607 JESUS HEALED YOU elaine. only believe. do not listen to your body.believe what GOD did for you. Salvation and healing are on the basis of faith in what GOD has already done for us through Jesus Christ. then our fresh and anything else will have to obey their creator. for you and me is to believe HIM.THE REST IS hIS. GLORY
@@elainewat2607 Closely follow the ministry of Joni Eareckson Tada, one of the most Godly, on-fire-for-Jesus women of our times... Despite also being paraplegic she has a huge ministry blessing many people, & walks very closely with Jesus. You can find many of her videos on You Tube. They are a huge blessing.
My faith is in the pre tribulation….. 🙌🏾 come Lord, come! I’m not sure why anyone would think that the church/bride of Christ would have to go through that horrible 7 year timeframe. It’s Jacobs trouble, not ours!
Well you could read the Bible and see we are PROMISED tribulation. Just look at the tell MILLIONS of Christians who have been imprisoned tortured and killed for their faith. The Bible is clear, the dead rise first THEN we who are alive and remain will be taken up. The Bible is also clear when the FIRST resurrection takes place, it's near the end of the trubulation. Rev 20
Yes. Tribulation that Jesus said we will all face is not the 7 year period of the great tribulation. I just taught Old Testament Prophets in a Bible Institute. It is very obvious that there are promises and covenants given to Israel not yet fulfilled. Jacob is not the church.
The 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 through 8 are the Jews. Those mentioned from verse 9 and forward ("after these things...) are not the Jews ("a great multitude which no one could count from every nation and tribes and peoples and tongues...") ("these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."). It's plain to see for those with opened eyes and not preconceived notions not based on scripture.
This request by the Lord could extend to refusing any rapture ever. You use it to limit it to refusal of the pre-trib rapture, but you cannot do that. Jesus doesn't limit it. Mindless people have long used this verse to deny the pre-trib rapture. It's not your fault, you learned it from false teachers.
God has always delivered His believers before judgement. The main problem if you don't believe in the pre- tribulation rapture is that you will be left behind with the rest of the unbelievers.
“I pray *not* that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest *keep* them from the evil.” “But all these things *will they do unto you for my name's sake* because they know not him that sent me.” {John 15:20-21} And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. {Acts 5:41}
If that was contextually speaking of the church going through the 70th Week, then all the righteous would need to be pre-tribulation raptured anyway so they could ALL go through the “7 Year Tribulation.”
Regardless of which way a Christian falls on this subject, we are so impressed at the respect the three people here showed for each other. We need more talks like this. Respecting another's interpretation and not shouting down a fellow Christian for believing a different way. We congratulate you on this lively teaching and debate!
Once you know the truth, you should not respect lies... It's much like "Debating" the Sabbath... There is ONE TRUE GOD ordained 7th Day Sabbath and there is the others illegitimately created by men... Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit...
@@bawbjusbawb6471 When you start to distinguish between what is truly, truly divine and what is man-made; when you can distinguish between what is "of the world" and what is "NOT of the word" (See John 17 and John 8 for example), then you start to see rightly and the TRUTH will set you free from slavery to man-made doctrines and traditions of organized religion.
Since the living and remaining can never precede the fallen-asleep [dead] (1Th 4:15), perhaps you can explain how the living can possibly be raptured before the dead whom Jesus promised to resurrect within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54).
According to God's Word. John 15 vs 20 "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, not with an utterly impossible and oxy moron "pre tribulation" notion.
There's going to be a LOT of people SHOCKED when the LORD makes His GLORIOUS APPEARING. At the end of the tribulation period, the hour of testing upon the earth, Christ will return with His Bride.
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world “to test”those who live on the earth “____Revelation 3:10
John 16 vs 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. So you're not a follow of Jesus then @williamrussolesi6052? Jesus told us Christians, His followers, that we would have tribulation. Only those who reject Jesus will not be persecuted..... lest they persecute themselves... LOL
Greetings to you!! You describe exactly what I am saying for YEARS (since 1994. when I converted) - and I am trying to explain to my pre-tribulation friends that the word MEET mean what the brother in the video said. In our language (I am from Balkan, sought Europe, slavic language) it literary means what you describe.... God bless you! 🧡 And the rest brothers and sisters who does not (yet) see it 🙂🧡
It greatly saddens me that he has to mention John MacArthur, who denies that the atonement is through the blood of Jesus!!! plus, he tells people that they can take the mark of the beast and still get saved!!! John MacArthur is a wolf!!!!!!!!!!
And if you are truly saved Yahweh will keep, protect you through the great tribulation. Just like he did Noah and Lot. He protected them through it all.
@@EBRoyJr .... he not only saved and protected Noah "through" the flood, but God also protected all the Hebrews through the plagues God put on the Egyptians through Moses. If you noticed, not one of the plagues touched even one Hebrew, only the Egyptians. It will be the same way through the Great Tribulation.
I agree with you brother. If a person is saved and it turns out to be a pre-trib rapture, then we will "all" go then the rapture happens. If it turns out to be a post-trib rapture, then we will all go through the Great Tribulation and we will all go in the rapture when it happens. NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. This is man's superstition used upon the people to make them think that this is a punishment from God that they will be left behind and not get to go in the rapture if you refuse to believe that it is a pre-trib rapture. If you remember, when Jesus was talking to the Sanhedrin, the Religious Leaders, he said you will not enter in and you keep the people from entering in.
@@georgeo785 I know the scriptures as well as anyone I know. I’ve got multiple degrees and I can understand difficult concepts on some level even outside my fields of study. That said, with all the years I’ve studied the pre trib rapture-all the books, all the teachings, all the textual studies-I’ve never been able to get it to reasonably harmonize with an honest reading of scripture. There’s too much stretching the text, too many disingenuous acrobatics around objections. Ultimately, I could be wrong and the pre trib rapture could be right. I mean, God can do whatever he wants. Just don’t put all your eggs in that basket. It’s chock full of holes.
I got tired listening to this teacher, they stick their view on one event No Rapture, one big Return). He’s so nervous trying to disprove pretrib and doesn’t go over Jewish salvation as a people! Day of the Lord not mentioned in first video. Trying to review for a soon coming class that will be team taught.
@@georgeo785 At one time Jack Hibbs was post trib so he knows both sides of the argument... To many contortions to make post trib work. I am Pre-Trib and will keep my lamp filled with oil the whole time. (I seriously don't understand how people can get so wound up about this.)
I am astounded. Only a few days ago was I suddenly alerted to Matthew 24 and how it shows only one coming at the end. I was a pre-tribulationist before. Your series on this subject is phenomenal. I am getting a real urgency from the Holy Spirit that we need to get this message out loud and quickly. There is so much misinformation about this subject I really fear people will fall away massively when they realise that Jesus hasn't come and that they will have to go through right until the end.
I totally agree we need to put it out there the truth!!! Revelation 20:4- 6 Matthew 24:29- 31 and the warning revelation 22:18-19 if you add to this book the plagues will be added to you if you take away from this book your name will be taken from the Tree of Life this is very serious!!!!!
There's going to be mass genocide because many will refused the RFID the Globalists are going to kill all who refused if your a saint you will be killed unless you go into hiding if your found you will be martyrs the rapture is before the battle of Armageddon there will be no church buildings because of persecution there will home church underground like it was originally the Globalists are closing churches right many pastor are in jailed as of now obey Acts 2 38
It’s important to rightly divide, Mathew 24 is speaking of the future for sure, for the Jews in the tribulation. We are in the time of the gentiles, the church age. During the great tribulation the time of the gentiles will be fulfilled and God will be dealing with the Jews…
Watch and pray that you will be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Lord. For the elects sake I have shortened those days.
Indeed. The elect will be there. Jesus clearly stated as much. And false teaching about a pre-trib rapture is why many of them will be deceived into not believing what they're experiencing is the end times tribulation.
Here’s why i believe in pre trib, as an attorney who practices competitive reading comprehension 1. Church isn’t mentioned in the trib/great trib chapters. John had 16 chapters there to talk about the church and he didn’t. 2. Trib/great trib are Jacob’s, not the Church’s. It’s design is to break Israel’s will to defy their Messiah. 3. A post trib accomplishes nothing. Why rapture then return us nano-moments later? Makes no sense. 4. Jesus himself said “… that you may escape…” but really this should be reason #1-18. 5. the rapture revisits the Noahic Ark archetype of preserving a holy selected entity from difficult times 6. It’s consistent with God’s merciful nature 7. DAMAGES. More than anything, a post trib would deprive the church of hope. FYI a rapture is not a “coming” of Jesus. The guy in the middle should consider speaking more humbly, as a servant of God should speak who presumes to teach. He’s not a caustic auctioneer. He’s presumably speaking the Holy Spirit’s doctrine.
The church is certainly mentioned throughout the book rev. Rev12v17, those who die in the blood of the lamb, the two lampstands and olive trees, the two witnesses are the church
The tribulation is for all nations, Satan's time with us, hence we see those who come out of great tribulation from all nations, why go through it? Because we witness for Christ during that time as well. Jesus was clear, He raises all who belong to Him and comes for all who belong to Him at the same time, on the last day. Pre trib contradicts the salvation gospel, contradicts scripture also adds and takes away from it
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Jesus told us He is going to prepare a place for us and will return to take us to be with Him. Then we return to Earth after the 7 year tribulation. When we are caught up at the rapture, each one of us stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat judgment, then we receive our eternal, resurrected bodies, celebrate the marriage of the Lamb, then return with Jesus to rule with Him at the New Jerusalem for the Millennial Reign. Praise Jesus. Thank You Jesus. Maranatha Jesus.
I am pre-trib. Revelations 3:6 the Church is still being addressed. Then in 3:9 the Church no longer being addressed. There will be those who will be saved and will not take the mark of the beast. They will die as martyrs. We must live our lives everyday as Christ has taught us. Be prepared and pray for those who are lost and for those who have rejected Christ. I just finished a very indepth Bible study with Dr. David Jeremiah Revelation series.
There’s many verses that you haven’t read Dr. Jeremiah was only one man show revelation seven verse 13 chapter 12 verses 13 through 17 chapter 13 verse 10, chapter 14 verse 12 Daniel eight verses 19 through 24. Those are just a few the Saints will be here.
The church is on earth after Revelation 4. Those John saw in Revelation 7 are the church. The angel specifically said they had come out of great tribulation. The book of Revalation is not a book with a linear timeline....straight timeline with one thing happening one after another. Revelation is a circular book showing multiple things happening at the same time.
the truth in the Lord proclaimed!!! and it brings true comfort to those who seek the truth and know it!!! brilliant!!! absolutely brilliant discerning of the Holy Scriptures for His glory...
Hello brothers. So I’ve been looking into pre-TRIB or post TRIB. Can someone explain to me, that is pre-TRIB, how Paul’s teaching about the Lawless one appearing makes sense if Christians that he was writing to would’ve never seen the anti-Christ. How could it be a sign that the day the lord hasn’t come yet, because the lawless one hasn’t appeared. Shouldn’t he be pointing to signs that would occur before the rapture, not after?
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. ☝What George said is fact.
God is pro two rapture's 1- God has appointed us the church to wrath 2- it's a time of the gentle church trouble not Jacobs trouble 3- do not comfort one another with these word's you will suffer 4- the churches 70th week Daniels 69th week is done 5-the tribulation is to punish believers for believing in Jesus 6- all good men leave their brides to be down town all night before their wedding to test them 7- Matthew 24 is talking to the seven church's not the Jewish people 8- Matthew 24 was a direct letter to the church's 9- the church is to flee to the wilderness of Judea 10- the church is to be worried about fleeing in the Sabbath day 11- the elect saint's are only baptized Christians not Jews 12- there's only one rapture to Jerusalem and it's done by angels from the 4 winds or 4 corners of the earth. The other rapture being called up is not real If the church taught two raptures one to heaven called up by God himself and one gathered by angels to Jerusalem. Teaching Matthew is written to the Jews by a few for the Jews rightly dividing the scripture Paul have letters to the churches Jesus spoke to the Jews concerning the future of the Jewish nation. It's a time of Jacobs trouble God punishes the unbelievers The bible teaches 2 raptures.
Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. The so called "pre trib" oxy moron is a deception and not comforting because it is NOT the truth. Praise Jesus, for He is the way, the TRUTH, the life and the light of the world!
I read and was taught Matthew 24 as being directed towards the Jewish people and Israel. You mentioned Matthew 24:31 (The great trumpet) but if we reference that to Isaiah 27:12-13 it clearly states the gathered as “O sons of Israel” and a great trumpet. Ch. 26:19-21 seems to reference the rapture, tribulation and second coming in 3 verses. Please explain…
I appreciate the fellow who starts this discussion by appealing to humility on all sides. That is wise. Every position on this topic has problem passages. Sadly, that same fellow also continuously refers to the Rapture as “the secret rapture”, which is not a term that any pre-Trib teacher I have heard has used. I have heard a LOT of pre-Trib critics use it in their presentations. I’m not saying NO pre-Trib person has used the term, but I have never encountered it except from the mouth of those attacking the pre-Trib position. Such rhetorical devices shouldn’t be necessary if the critic’s case is strong enough to carry the day.
Another biblical and historical illiterate. Do you actually believe that they want to go through the Great tribulation and, therefore, they don't believe in the pre-tribulation?
You'll be there, what a dumb thing to say to suffering children of God, have fun, Are you serious? Is this funny for you,? Repent you carnal human being,
Thank you! This teaching is so good. I've been on this journey,alone, trying to understand the truth of the end times. But in my heart and understanding of what I read myself it seemed a pre-trib rapture explanation seemed almost ridiculous (not to be sounding proud about my belief). You haven't even taught all of your points you wanted to make and it seems so clear to me now.
It is outside the character and nature of the goodness of God to punish the righteous with the unrighteous. Any punishment is a slap to the face of the One who bought believers with His perfect blood and healed us with His broken body.😢 sad teachings. Sad days of great deceptions. "I'm going to give you 13 reasons to doubt..."
It rains on the just and the unjust, the sun shines on the just and the unjust 😉 tribulation, just and unjust We shall go through tribulation for our own benefit on our journey to Him 🙏
@@earlclep1 We must enter tribulation to inherit the kingdom if God (Acts 14:22; Rev. 1:9), but tribulation (Greek: thlipsis) happens to all saints through the Church Age and the 70th Week. The 70th Week that is given the doctrinal term (7 Year Tribulation) is not thlipsis. Acts 14:22 “...must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.” Post tribbers and pre-wrathers are implying that all people have to go through the 70th Week of Daniel in order to enter the kingdom and be saved from hell. What Acts 14:22 is not saying that you imply is all Christians are going to have to go through the 70th Week of Daniel, or all saints in heaven would need to be resurrected pre trib anyway to go through this last 7 years of Daniels 70 Weeks (Dan. 9:24-27). You are wrongly stuck with associating the word “tribulation” with the doctrinal term “7 Year Tribulation,” which is biblically called “Daniels 70th Week.” (Dan. 9:24-27). It is accurate that we will go through tribulation (Jn. 17:15; Acts 14:22), but not the 70th Week where God focuses His attention and focus back to Israel for the purpose:
@@earlclep1 I believe that fits properly. The person above in the comments was saying why would God judge the believers with ubelievers.....saying it is like God slapping us in the face. But we have to remember that god is judging this world spiritually in different ways as we speak........ and we are all mingled together on earth. Also, the Bible says not to pull up the tares till the end........ At the end, GOD IS THE SIFTER.......................
that was outstanding !! Several key points you brought out that had not occurred to me before, but I have always thought to myself, "how many last trumpets are there". That never made sense to me either.
If you read 1 Thessalonians 4 16 God himself will decent from heaven (with the trump of God) the dead in Christ will rise first and he is alive and remains……(encourage one another with these words) Not the 7th angel mentioned in revelation 6. They are different trumpets. Suddenly in a twinkling of an eye, at last Trump, the dead in Christ will rise first……
Trumpets are blown on many Jewish feasts. The Trump of God was at Pentecost. Trumps are blown at rosh Hashanah in thr fall which is 'the feasts of no man knows' ....also feasts of tabernacles. Let the holy spirit guide you and pray for wisdom. Rev 3.10
Most people that can understand Scripture feel the same way. These guys are clueless. The tribulation is for Jewish people and unsaved mainly Jewish people. We are gone
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. The Holy city is Jerusalem, Jewish people belong in it. Satan wants to sit on the throne of David. The church wasn't even a concept when this verse was written. The church is gone as George stated because the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. The time of the gentiles began when God cursed the kings bloodline making it impossible for Jesus Christ to have a human father. It was confirmed by Paul when he told the Pharisees that the gospel was taken from them and given to the gentiles at the end of the book of Acts. The time of the gentiles is fulfilled before the tribulation and that is why the church disappeared in Revelation ch4, literally raptured if you pay attention to what is going on.
@@georgeo785 They never stop to ask why the antichrist makes a covenant with the Jews if the church is still here and is the real representative of God. Also why do the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem? So many hoops to jump through for them to make scripture fit their view. Plus all the false cults of "Christianity" Like Catholicism, Mormonism, SDA, JW either believe in a posttrib rapture or reject pretrib rapture. That is a big red flag.
The relevance of being correct on the timing of the rapture is of great importance. Those who hold to a pre position, if wrong will become dismayed, disheartened, and resentful, feeling they were lied to. How great wil the "falling away" then be.
Did you get my comment. What idiot would want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Daniel's 70th week and the time of Jacob's trouble. Jewish not Christians
Exactly! I already already know of one brother, a former employer, who told me he would turn away from the Lord if he had to be here for the tribulation. Sadly, he already started walking away by divorcing his wife without their being adultery, and marrying another woman.
I think that some people believe that there will be a pre-tribulation rapture because they are afraid to be tested incase they turn away and who wouldn't be . Instead I think we should be thankful that our Father deems us worthy of the testing rather than be just chaff to be thrown into the fire , " Lord make me worthy of your love and forgiveness , Let me not be afraid but grant me courage for what is to come and shelter me in your word I pray , amen ".
@alonzomaynard9500 ... yes! Great point. I keep meaning to bring that up. You're this first person I've come across to actually raise this. Welll done!!
If your saved, it really doesn’t make any difference, if you are pre trib, or believe we’ll be called home in the middle, or post tribulation. Revelation, 3:10 Because thou has kept the word, of my patience, I will also keep the from, the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
We need to apply 2 Timothy 2:15 or rightly dividing the Word of Truth to understand Scripture because there are passages in the bible that are specifically for a group of people. We can't apply all passages to all people because we will only be confused.
Rapture doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830: 1. John Nelson Darby invented the false doctrine of the Rapture 1830-1833 AD and popularized it in 1850 to which it infected us today. While Morgan Edwards had also invented the doctrine in a college essay in 1744 AD, his work was isolated, forgotten and irrelevant as an etiology of the modern popularity of pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Darby invented the doctrine without any influence or reliance on Edwards. 2. Morgan Edwards wrote this short essay as a paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744. After he immigrated to the USA, the essay was published in Philadelphia in 1788. It is clear that his school paper went as unnoticed as his formal publication in 1788 AD. While Edwards may in fact be the earliest person on earth to invent the pre-tribulation rapture, it is equally clear that Darby invented the same doctrine in 1830 AD and made it popular 100 years later in 1850 AD. "The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.: I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's " appearing in the air" (1 Thes. iv, 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many " mansions in the father's house of God" (John xiv: 2), and to disappear during the foresaid period of time. ... V. That spot of earth which. Christ will make the seat of his governments Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt, as we shall prove by and by and that temple will be the house of Christ kingdom. ... VI. The risen and changed saints shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. I do not mean that all will be kings; for some are to be Christ' s priests, some judges, some rulers over cities, some over his household, some over his goods, (as wee shall see anon) and some his special chorister and musicians. (Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties, Morgan Edwards, 1744 AD, 1788 AD) 3. Darby notes that the doctrine "popped into his head" in 1830 AD. Before this, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine. 4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided. 5. Modern influences of Darby include Dallas Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe and Harold Camping, the Scofield Reference Bible. 6. Darby's Rapture theology has infected almost every conservative protestant church, except for a few groups like the Churches of Christ, who rejected it as a non-Biblical doctrine and have denounced it ever since like all other man made doctrines. The Great Tribulation of the Bible is 70AD ... The Total Destruction of Jerusalem ... Why ... Their Rejection of Christ and His Crucifixion ... This completed the 70th week of Daniel ... think about this ... why would God postpone the 70th week for an additional 2023 years + when the first 69 were in succession ... ??? God is not a God of Confusion ... God would not make it so hard to understand ... Not only was Jerusalem destroyed but it started a year or two before 70AD with the destruction of Every Major City in Israel ... I would say that was a Great Tribulation ... The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army Destroying the Temple and Jerusalem ... Jesus came to Fullfil their laws and warn the Jews and teach them and others to become Fishers of Men to carry on The Gospel into the Future ...
Not at all true about John Nelson Darby -- the first century Christians (including the original apostles and also the apostle Paul) and the early church fathers who followed them into the next century, believed in the pre-tribulation Rapture of "the church" ("church" being defined as the collective body of believers in Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of denomination or sect). At the end of the second century and continuing into the third century (a.d.), a second school of Christian thought began to emerge in Alexandria, Egypt, which began to compete against the teachings of the first school founded in Antioch, Syria, by the apostle Paul et. al. The Alexandrian school was steeped in Greek philosophy as well as gnosticism and other heretical practices/beliefs. Early philosophers/theologicans like Philo and Origen embraced the Alexandrian teachings rather than the true teachings from the Antiochian school. Augustine came on the scene about 100 years (or so) after Origen, and Augustine embraced Origen's teachings. Augustine then developed the initial concept of an amillennial or allegorical (instead of a literal) 1000-year reign of the Lord upon the earth. Augustine's teachings were embraced by what came to be the Roman Catholic church . . . and that church was the "only game in town" from about 500 a.d. ("ish") until 1517, when John Calvin nailed his 95 theses (originally in Latin) on the door of the church/cathedral at Wittenburg, Germany . . . launching the Protestant Reformation against the RCC. Dr. Andrew Marshall Woods (senior pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church near Houston, Texas) often states in his teachings that Augustine was probably the most influential person in Christian history . . . but NOT in a good way). Throughout the Protestant Reformation and continuing even to the present day, Augustine's false teachings (which were captured in his book "The City of God," have invaded the Christian church collective, being disguised as "Reformed Theology" concepts and theology. In the 1800's, while convalescing at home for the better part of a year following a serious riding accident, John Nelson Darby spent numerous hours studying the Bible and discovered the errors in Augustine's teachings on the topic of the Rapture of the church compared to the biblical text. Darby revitalized the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine which was the original doctrine taught by the original apostles (including Paul) and the early church fathers in the second and early third centuries -- until the gnostic heresies of the Alexandrian school and Augustine took over and became the more dominant theology in the Christian communities around the world.
And I could give about 13 reasons for pre trip rapture. I guess we will see. Doesn't matter really. But in the old testament when it was man's wrath God allowed his people go through it , if it was his wrath and he took his people out. I am preparing either way... because ultimately we dont know. I've heard both arguments and I am kinda sticking with mid trib...we may go through stuff...but hoping for pre
Agreed, I feel you have to be ready to go through some stuff. If you are not you will be devastated to have to go through persecution. Thessalonians 2-2 talks about Jesus not returning until the lawlessness one is exposed in the temple.
It matters because many will fall away because they were deceived by pre trib teaching. The dead in Christ rise first! Who are they? Rev 20;4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. V5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Only those spoken of will rise and rule with Jesus during the 1,000 years. The wrath of God is poured out on the unbelieving. God protects his own, just like in the time of Moses. The reason why this matters is when Christians have to suffer many will fall away because their belief was in error and they will think the Bible was not true because they were taught this FALSE TEACHING.
A few points I would like to make. He says 14:36 into the video that the saved are left behind to meet Jesus while the evil people are swept away. He is possibly confusing this with the sheep and goat judgement at the end of the Great Trib but the fact that he does not refer to the sheep and goat judgement indicates to me he has not thought of it. Regarding Noah in the boat, this is my interpretation: Eight people (8=New Beginning) got IN TO a boat, an enclosure, a place of safety, while the storm raged "outside" (down on Earth). That place of safety is Heaven. And the Ark's door remained open 7 days before God shut the door Himself, which to me means there will be a sovereign sign to true believers and those tipping on the fence that the rapture is about to happen, perhaps a week in advance - the sign being a trumpet, not the Trumpet of Revelation. There is an interesting connection between 1 Thes. 4:16 and Exodus 19:13, and both involve the Trumpet Call of God. In these two cases and only these two it’s the sound of the trumpet that’s important, not the trumpet itself, and in both cases the sound is said to be coming from God. It's like a train whistle....pheeeeep - it's time to go!! Also, the post Trib view cuts out the Bema seat judgement where believers are rewarded and the marriage of the Lamb.
Interesting parallel use of the same Greek language from revelation 3 found in John 17. Jesus prayed nor that we woild be "taken out of the world" but that we would be protected during the time of persecution that was to come.
Please don't forget1Cor.15:50-58. You should also teach where this Rature teaching came from Mary MacDonald,John Darby, and Scofield. I believe this teaching for many years until I really studied the book of Revelation and kept seeing the word Overcomer right up to the end of the book. I also have been blessed to listen to many good teachers like Jesse Gistand , Bruce Gore,Charles Balwin etc.
There were many pre-trib rapturists among the Puritans. The story about the girl's vision as convincing Darby is as mythical as that he learned his teaching from Jesuits! Use your head.
Actually it came from the Holy Ghost in the original manuscripts.....via the Harpazo teaching in II Thessalonians. Harpazo is Greek in those manuscripts for "snatched away or taken by force". The Rapture teaching came long before those people. Have a nice day.
Well, those “good teachers” are wrong! Look in the O.T. and see how God saved His people from His coming wrath. Noah and the Flood, as well as Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah! Try saying that those examples are irrelevant!
“What shall be the sign of thy coming?” Parousia (GSN-) is Greek for “coming,” meaning personal visible presence or reappearing. There will be two appearances Christians refer to. The first will be the rapture, which is a personal coming in the air (not to the earth) for the saints (1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:13-17; 5:23; 1 Cor. 15:23, 51-58; 2 Thess. 2:1,7-8; Jas. 5:7-8; 1 Jn. 2:28; Jn. 14:1-3; Rev. 4:1). The second will be the Second Coming to earth with His saints to reign (Mt. 24:3, 27-51; 25:31-46; Jude 1:14-15; Rev. 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14, 18, 22, 27; Zech. 14:1-5).
TWO PURPOSES FOR "The Tribulation" -- 1) To bring an unbelieving Nation of Israel into believing faith in the Christ Jesus as their Messiah and King; and 2) To bring God's Wrath and ultimate destruction to the rest of the unbelieving world. Pretty simple . . .
I think what is important to understand is that the emphasis should be on the resurrection. The resurrection and the rapture happen at the same time but the dead in Christ are resurrected first and then we that remain. The resurrection is a big deal. Christ was resurrected and that is a big deal. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have a hope.
They are both the Rapture as Jesus come for those saved in the church age that trusted and had Faith in what Jesus did on the cross and faith in His blood and His resurrection.
I don't buy your argument from authority. With all due respect to Mr. Lindsay, his authority on the subject is not greater than that of Jesus, who explicitly laid out a timeline for us in the Olivet discourse when he said "after the tribulation of those days". Neither is he a greater authority on the subject than the apostle Paul who places the transformation of the church and her rescue as immediately subsequent to the resurrection of the dead saints, or John who quotes Jesus as saying that the saints will be raised up on the "last day".
Pre trib, mid trib, and post trib are all true and its in scripture. That's why many argue and can each prove it with scripture. Its not just one. Its God's harvest model throughout the whole bible and its revealed in the gospels. That's why all 3 gospels speak of the same story but different. They are speaking to 3 different groups of people. Luke is to the bride of Christ that goes pre trib. Mark is to left behind church that goes mid trib. Matthew is to the jews and they are post trib. Ex. In Mark and Matthew before Jesus dies on the cross he says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" but in Luke he says "Father into your hands I commend my Spirit. In Mark and Matthew Jesus is given a purple and scarlet robe when going to the cross. In Luke he's given a gorgeous bright robe. In revelation during the tribulation you see purple and scarlet being referenced (no mention of that gorgeous bright color). In Mark and Matthew Jesus says "no man knows the day and hour" but in Luke he says watch and pray that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things. Clearly he's saying different things for different reasons. God doesn't take everyone all at once. Like a harvest field you take the first 10% first. Then its the 90%, then last its the corners and gleanings. its laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other scriptures. There's so many other scriptures I can't write them all here. czcams.com/video/yXVqye-9AUk/video.html
THE TRUTH ABOUT 1 THESS. 4:13-17 THE DEAD ARE RESURRECTED FIRST, SO THERE CAN'T BE A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH OF THOSE ALIVE IN CHRIST! a THE COMING OF THE LORD, not pre-trib gathering before great tribulation! b "Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about THOSE WHO FALL ASLEEP, or to grieve like rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that God WILL BRING WITH JESUS THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM! According to the Lord's Own Word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the COMING OF THE LORD, will certainly NOT PRECEDE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN CHRIST. For the Lord Himself Will COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, With a Loud Command, with the voice of the archangel and with the Trumpet Call of God, and the DEAD IN CHRIST will RISE FIRST. After That, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord Forever" (1 Thess. 4:13-17) b Verse 13: "THOSE WHO FALL ASLEEP" Verse 14: "THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM[JESUS] Verse 16: "THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP" Verse 16: "THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST" c Question: Who will Rise First? d Answer: The Dead in Christ Will Rise First! The Ones that are mentioned in Verses 13 and 14 and 16! e Major Point: THIS IS THE RESURRECTION! f Thus, the Living in Christ Will Rise Second, This is the Opposite of the pre-trib rapture stance! e Question: When are the Dead in Christ Raised? f Answer: When, "the LORD Himself will Come Down From Heaven." That is, At the Visible Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ! g Point: After the Dead in Christ are Raised First, THEN those Alive are Raised SECOND! h Major Point: If the Dead in Christ are Raised or Raptured First, and they are Given their New Resurrection Bodies FIRST, THEN HOW CAN THERE BE A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE of the Living! For if there was to be a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church, Paul would have said that: THOSE IN CHRIST ARE RAISED FIRST! But he Didn't! i Did I miss something? Nope! For: "Those who are Left till the COMING OF THE LORD, will certainly NOT Precede THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM" [the Lord Jesus Christ] j The Second Major Point: There will NOT be a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church BEFORE THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE GIVEN THEIR NEW RESURRECTION BODIES! k The Third Major Point gave me goosebumps: "God will bring with Jesus Those who have Fallen Asleep in Christ." Don't miss this: WHEN JESUS COMES, He will bring with Him THOSE WHO HAVE DIED IN HIM! They are the DEAD IN CHRIST! l "But Christ has indeed been Raised from the Dead, the firstfruits of THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP. For since death came through a man, the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD comes also through a man. For as in Adam all Die, so in Christ all will BE MADE ALIVE. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; THEN, WHEN HE COMES, THOSE WHO BELONG TO HIM"[Those who are Still Alive] m The Third Major Point: the FirstFruits, the Dead in Christ are the First to be Given their New Resurrection Bodies! Then, Immediately Afterwards Those who are still Alive that are LIVING FOR JESUS CHRIST Will be Given their New Resurrection Bodies, "WHEN HE COMES." That's At the Second Coming of Christ, When Jesus Christ COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN! n "I Declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a Mystery: WE WILL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we will all be Changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For the Trumpet WILL SOUND, the DEAD WILL BE RAISED IMPERISHABLE, and we will all be Changed" (1 Cor. 15:50-52) o The Most Obvious Point is that pre-trib rapture teaches that this Scripture is about the pre-trib rapture of the Church! They are only part right: This is Indeed the Rapture of the Church, but it is ALSO THE RESURRECTION! It is the RESURRECTION RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH! It Happens when the LAST TRUMPET IS SOUNDED and When Jesus Christ Returns! There is No Room for a pre-trib rapture, ONLY THE SECOND COMING of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! p Final Point: the SECOND COMING is Also the GREAT GATHERING[the RAPTURE] and the RESURRECTION! They are Tied Together and are the: "Blessed Hope--the Glorious Appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13) Those who Do Not Follow Jesus Christ and Those who Do Not Belong to the Lamb Jesus Christ, there is NO HOPE! Those who Long for His Second Coming, There is the Blessed Hope which can only be found in Jesus Christ Himself!
Only the angels that were sent from above, is removed now, we didn't fall with lucifer and will not go through judgement. 12 million kept safe inside the desert, most, raised from the dead, we will come out onto new earth, as Yeshua comes down in the clouds, somewhere in 2025. Zion the Bride (144,000), will go safely through tribulation, judgement and will only be removed before 3 days of darkness, after 3 days, they will return and hand out water & bread to those still alive. Children up to 12 years will also be removed before 3 days of darkness. The rest will have to hold God's hand tight to make it onto new earth safely and should not fear what's coming.
One Major Reason to Believe in the Rapture: the Book of Revelation devotes four chapters to this topic. Chapter six describes the reaction of every lost person left behind on Earth as they run for the mountains and flee the portals of Heaven and God. Chapter Seven introduces us to the numberless multitude who were saved from the Great Tribulation.
The problem I have is why scripture clearly describes one appearing as taking us away (meet the Lord in the air) and another coming as coming back to set up His kingdom. My question is if he’s taking us away where are we going if He’s coming back to set up His kingdom with us. What about the parallel between the rapture and Galilean wedding? Why is there a clear distinction between the church and Israel? In revelation what is the need of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and two witnesses if the church is on the earth evangelizing? Who’s coming with Christ on white horses in Rev 19, is it the bride/army in white linens? If we are the bride of Christ why would God beat up (wrath of God) his fiancée during the tribulation before the wedding?
But if as the discussion concludes that ''it makes no sense for Christ to come gather his people then come back down again 7 years later i.e. arguing for a post tribulation ''rapture''-Then how can it make sense for Christ come [post 'Tribulation'] gather up his people then all come back down again immediately for the Milllennium Reign on earth? Wouldn't it make sense that those raptured 7 years previously would return with him to rule over the survivors of the tribulation for a millennium? Doesn't it make more sense that the true believers and righteous would not have to suffer the antichrist and the Tribulation? Because true believers don't need any more suffering to turn them into believers. Let's face it, is there anyone going to be left in any doubt by the end of the Tribulation after the plagues 25% of the world dead, the attack on Isreal etc, so how can it be possible that Christ comes like thief in the night? I think the post Tribbers are n denial and scared. And to argue that it is better to be ''left behind'' seems to be opposed to all logic. Can you ever imagine praying to be left behind? I can't Yes of course the Noah's Ark analogy holds but not in every detail otherwise it would be a carbon copy and not an analogy would it? IF there is any doubt, which there clearly is in on this issue-then shouldn't we go with logic? And logic tells me that it has to be pre Tribulation otherwise
Christ went about preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM. MATT. 3:2, Luke 9:2. The disciples were sent to preach also the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom could not be our gospel of the church because Christ had not been sent to the cross yet. Our gospel is 1 COR. 15:1 So when you read MATT. 24:14 Christ said when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preach in all the world then the end shall come. REV. 14:6 I saw an angel with the everlasting gospel to PREACH to them that dwell on the earth. So that means the gospel of the kingdom being preach at the start of the thousand year reign. The gospel of the kingdom was only preach to the Jews not to the church. MATT.10:6 preach only to the lost sheep of Israel. All verses in MATT. 24 points to the gathering of Israel not the church which had not been started yet. MATT. 24:31 he will send his angels with the sound of a trumpet and gather his elect. ISA. 27:12-13 it shall come to past in that day, that the Lord shall beat off the channel of the great river unto a stream of Egypt and ye shall be GATHERED. ONE BY ONE. O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. 12 verse. And it shall come to past that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN. and they shall come which were ready to perish, come to worship the Lord in JERUSALEM. this is almost word for word of what is written in MATT. 24. When the Gentile church was proclaimed to be a replacement for the Jewish church in ACT. 13:46 Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said it was necessary that the word of God should be preach to you first, you judge yourself unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE. We turn to the Gentiles. Then Paul preach about a rapture for the church, which is to be taken out of this world by FORCE. We are now gather by the Spirit ROM. 8:11. The Spirit of him that raise up Christ from the dead dwell in you shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELL IN YOU. the church will not need no angels to gather us , because the SPIRIT OF GOD IN US SHALL GATHER AND change us just like Christ. Those in MATT 24 will still be mortal Jews. Matt. 24 is only talking about God moving back to Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles come into the church. ROM. 11:15 I believe I can prove that every verse in Matt. 24 is taking about God saving the Jews in the natural, But I want add all this right now because it is just too long of a study, but I will prove my statements if asked. There is an early rapture of the church, we are separate from the natural Jews that God shall also save.
The rapture is just when Jesus gathers his elect from the four winds. It's the same thing, the same event as his 2nd coming. Please share one passage in context that supports a pretrib rapture. Thanks.
Thank you. I have copied your points to study over a coffee later. Being simple minded, I fell off when they ranted about our wanting to be 'left behind' as in the days of Noah ! Even as he read the scriptures it sounded perfectly clear that the left behind were the judged and dead. Talk about messing with your head - sounded á la Whoopy Goldberg twisting the word almost! CHRIST IS my ark; and we were not appointed to wrath, and so we can be comforted. Notwithstanding, I'm confident we'll all see each other in the clouds during the Rapture 😉having escaped from God's wrath, forever more in the mighty presence of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. Bless you.
I respect all discussion/debate to fully understand and rightly divide scripture. This is how God is known. To the question is it pre, mid or post? …my answer is three words, ALWAYS. BE. READY. GOD BLESS
This was an excellent discussion. Some might say it nit picky whether you are pre-trib or not, but it has major consequences. Consider those who believe in a such who eventually finding themselves living with in the persecutions and violence of the tribulation. Would that experience not test their faith and many fall by the wayside during those times. We must be prepared that we could very suffer and die because of your faith, as many in Africa do this very day. Would the Western Christian be that seed that fell on good soil and resist the heresy of those times? Would we deny Jesus to save our hides? One doesn’t know until experiencing such suffering. Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and he was already told that he would do so. Who will we fair in such circumstances? We must be prepared for no rapture and suffer the tribulation.
Paul stated that we shall meet the Lord in the air, his foot doesnt touch down on the mount of Olives when he comes to judge the nations. Also read Daniel Ch:12
Some People Believe They Have to Suffer and Paid The Price in Order To Be Qualified to inherit The Promise and Justify By Suffering !! But Lord Paid The Price and Clearly Says You are not Destin to My Wrath.
Dude! You talked way to fast that it was hard for me to keep up! 😅 but everything you said makes sense! And I have always leaned to post trib. I don’t see or understand how people can get a pre trib theory. I’m not sure if people just lack comprehension or people just really aren’t understanding and studying for themselves but just going by what everyone else says because it’s been taught for the past few hundred years.
Adventures with Mimi I totally agree people have comprehension disabilities! They have a preconceived idea and want to stick with it and can’t look at facts of what the Scriptures actually are saying.
Found your part 2 on this talk last night and joyfully listened. This morning this teaching popped up on my feed. Your viewpoint is the way I read the Bible as well. Thank you! I feel affirmed in my interpretation while listening to you. I grew up with the mainline view of pre-rapture but as I began to mature in the Lord and study the bible I came to this same conclusion. Hard to convince others though .... Blessings!
Extremely hard to convince others because of pride!!! my concern is revelation 22:18-29 the warning if you add to this book plagues will be added to you if you take away from this book your name will be taken from the Tree of Life
Former General Patton said, "if everyone in the same room are all thinking all the same things, someone's not thinking". All people who preached "birth pang like preaching" for the past however many years weren't all saying that it's so much more possible now; so get more intense about being on edge type a thing. Paul anticipated the rapture at least in the time period of most of his writing. (There toward the very latter time of Paul's life he wrote in terms of his body dying physically more than in previous writings.) There seems to be that trib views do prompt studying areas of the bible, like Daniel that might not have otherwise been looked at as much. For one thing, the trib issues facilitated more people witnessing "the ministry of reconciliation" than might otherwise have been, so to speak. Thanks.
Has anyone asked how or when Paul was told about what Jesus said in Matthew regarding the last days, i.e., tribulation or rapture. Are we to ignore the mystery that was revealed to Paul. I can't find any suggestion of why Jesus would appear to Paul and ultimately send him and "his gospel" to the gentiles. It is said in Matthew that Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Is there a distinction between these different gospels (Kingdom and the Grace) and should we acknowledge a separate administration where Christ and His cross edifies and builds up us believers. BTW Paul never used the word Antichrist in his epistles.
Where do these verses fit in? Isa 26:17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD. Isa 26:18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
I think the reason people want to believe in a pretribulation rapture is because it would be easier to sign up new Christians. It would be a harder sell telling people they would have to go through the worst persecution and destruction in history. I know the rapture is after the tribulation. Everyone's faith and loyalty will be tested and that makes sense to attain everlasting life.
He that endures to the end shall be saved. These 2 witnesses of scripture seal it for me 2 Thessalonians 2:1,2 says the day of the lord and our gathering to him are the same day. The parable of the wheat and tares says they both grow together till the harvest. The tares are gathered and burned in the fire then the wheat is gathered into the barn.
So what your saying is what Jesus did means nothing then??? He that endures to the end shall be saved are the Tribulation saints not the church, we are already saved by the blood of Jesus, we are not appointed to wrath. We are taken out of the way as we the church are part of the restrainer the Holy Spirit.
@@kamikaze4928 Amen amen amen!! That's what I preach over and over. Christians have gone through tribulation and persecution for 2000 years, beginning with John the Baptist. Therefore it is not possible for Jesus to be able to go back and save them from being killed if they've already been killed. And even up to this day, Christians are going through tribulation. Right up until the last day there will be tribulation and persecution. Tribulation applies to Christians. If there were no Christians around, if Jesus took everyone away before they went through tribulation, then there would be no tribulation at all. It just wouldnt exist. But sadly, these pre tribbers lack common sense and cannot see that "pre trib" is an oxy moron.
I really like; "The Olivet Discourse," not only because of what Christ said there,, but,, because it is easy to pull from without needing to leave any cites...Eg; "Do not be troubled by these things, as they must all come to pass, but, the end is not yet..." If they want a cite, Matt: 24 1-13 will work!!! Brother James Kendall Moore OSB OFS OSC ✝️
Doesn't matter whether your pre Trib, mid Trib or post Trib. Nothing will happen to Believers that is apart from God's Will. We can rejoice in this knowledge.
I'm hoping for a pre-trib rapture, but preparing for tribulation. I am unable to fully commit to either argument, I think there is merit to both. Either way, my eternal salvation is secure, but I'm doing what I can to prepare for hard times. Glory be to God.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Wrath and judgement are two ENTIRELY different matters...
Judgement STARTS with the House of GOD...
Doesn't prove a rapture.....
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Nice evidence. Good job
That wrath happens when a person ultimately rejects Jesus Christ as his savior and Lord, and he is condemned to the Lake of Fire.
I’m 75 now, and wisdom comes with age! I’ve been living the life of Job since Oct 11/ 2001. God hasn’t forsaken me and is ever present with me. If in faith I quote scripture, He follows it with signs and wonders. God took my drivers license from me in 2002 for not wearing a seat belt ticket. I Praise God, as I have learned, the LORD gives and the LORD takes away, Blessed be the name of the LORD, He’s God, I Am not! He has a right to do as He pleases, though I have suffered much, I know He will some day, just like Job, give me double everything Satan has stolen from me. I know He will, because I have confessed it in faith, knowing God honors His word (which Jesus is!) When God chosen, I will receive, just like Job, houses and lands and cars and everything Satan stole, as Gods word is true. I will wait until my change comes and until then, I must Praise God, who is LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, Almighty God is He. Jesus is, according to Isaiah, the Everlasting Father, as well as the Prince of Peace. Praise God forevermore! Amen. Love in Christ Jesus, Bill
What will you do with two driver's license?
I praise God that my salvation isn't dependent on my belief in a theory, but on the fact that Jesus Christ took my sins away ON THE CROSS! I am born again, washed in His shed blood, and I will meet Him one day. The timing of that day, only God knows. Spread the Gospel to all and pray that His harvest will be plentiful.
The timing of Christ's 2nd coming is clearly revealed in the Scriptures: Jesus called it , "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54). Daniel called it, "The End of the Days", and reported a blessing for those who will be alive, 1335 days after the daily sacrifices have been terminated (Dan 12:13), in a temple not yet built. This event-driven, variable-method of prediction is similar to how Daniel also revealed the time of Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem. However, like before Christ's first coming, religious leaders argue among themselves, because some want to believe what they want to believe, despite being contradicted by holy, God-breathed, inerrant Scripture (2Tim 3:16).
Good one even tho im pre trib I'm just open to what God will, and I'm saved thru believing in his blood shed resurection on the Cross
Amen!
Grumpy Grandma , You better be willing to endure the Great Tribulation if your Physical Body does not die before then , because there is no such thing as a return of Jesus Christ before the Great Tribulation . That is not going to happen . Jesus said He that endured unto the end , the same shall be saved
Top Cat , You Pre tribbers are soft
Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
I love listening to different perspectives on Biblical matters among Christians! It just shows how finite we are compared to a great God we have. The important thing is to be ready and prepared to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, which involves being united in love.🙏🙂
I no longer agonize over this topic. It will be what it is going to be. Focus on your walk with God; faithfulness is the requirement no matter the circumstance.
The Bible plainly teaches that when the trumpet sounds the dead in Christ will rise first then His Church will rise to meet Him in the air! Jesus then returns 7 years later to the Mount of Olives to set up His Kingdom. I am going up in the Rapture because we are not appointed to Gods Wrath! Praise God!
I used to be Catholic so I was post tribulation, since leaving the catholic church I've started taking the Bible literally, and am now pre tribulation. I'll give just a few reasons why, first Christ Himself told us to pray that we were counted worthy to escape all these things Luke 21:36. 2nd the doctrine of imminence, this was a big one for me. All through the New Testament it tells us that Christ comes as a thief in the night He could come at anytime, after the desecration of abomination we Could mark on a calendar when Christ will return this is in the old and new testament. This is like the last one Christ comes as a thief in the night but also as the lighting flashes from east to west every eye will see Him this sounds like two separate events. There are many many more examples I'd recommend Chuck missler study on this it's very well done. Post-trib is catholic doctrine and didn't exist until the late 6th century, the early church was expecting to be ruptured before the tribulation
John 16 vs 33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John 15 vs 20
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;"
Revelation 20 vs 4
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed for thousands of years, starting with John the Baptist, so how then can Jesus save everyone from going through tribulation when they have already gone through it!?
I'll give you another example. Revelation chapter 5 verse 9. John clearly is speaking of the church in Heaven. Tribulation starts in chapter 6.
Were the Israelites appointed to the wrath, No. They saw it but were protected through it. So it will be. The entire concept that the rapture happens before the trib cannot be correct. Not appointed to wrath means God's wrath. the first 3.5 years is man's wrath against believers, not God's. So at the very least, you should be mid-trib, if not post trib
@justinharris6486, also, it makes no sense for Jesus to beat up his bride for 7 years of tribulation before returning to fetch her for the wedding.
Post Tribulation teaching is associated with Schofield and the Schofield Bible: late 1800s for Protestants.
Post-trib has always been plainly clear to me. It’s hard for me to see how others can’t see that, but I think people tend to believe what feels good to them rather than what the text plainly says. Sometimes truth is hard to swallow. Also, I think people confuse tribulation with wrath. In my understanding, the tribulation is the difficult time leading up to Christ’s return when we experience the mark of the beast, antichrist, etc but clearly after the tribulation when we are raptured, God will destroy all evil and pour out His wrath which we will not experience. His wrath is not meant for us, but tribulation and wrath are different from what I can see unless I’m missing something. I’ve enjoyed your videos and am trying to understand amillenialism. My hangup with it is Rev 20 says the first resurrection consists of those who didn’t take the mark of the beast, but the mark of the beast doesn’t happen until time of tribulation so how can first resurrection be our initial salvation? Would love any insight you have on this. Also, I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where it says something about 7 yrs of tribulation. Can you help me understand why people say 7 years?
I’m pre trib…and it’s ok…your all still my brothers and sisters in Christ
You sir are one of the only intelligent people on this podcast. Tribulation is for Jewish people and the unsaved. We are gone
I am not so sure if they are if they can't rightly divide the Scriptures. Misleading people
@@georgeo785 Bravo George, these people frustrate me because they are not very detail oriented. They not only butcher the proper division, but it leads to the improper application of "...hold fast which is good". I wish these people would humble themselves and let Dr. Ruckman and Dr Gene Kim teach them step by step.
I agree with previous comment, they seem to be trying to divide.... Shame I hope no one believes that crap! Jesus coming very soon, pls repent & change ways 🙏
The pretrib is a lie from hell. The scripture clearly states its after the tribulation of those days. It clearly states that it will not come til the falling away (apostasy) and revealing of antichrist and abomination. It clearly states last Trump. (Only one) Besides the Bible, you rapture guys will be among the starving and confused and unprepared as the tribulation hits. It's at the door. And yall haven't prepared. Cause you think we're whisped away
I really don’t care when I get rapture or not as long as I get to paradise and be with Jesus I’ll be very blessed thank you !
Yes, Luis, you will care very much when it is. If it were during or after the tribulation, if you lived, you would be experiencing literal hell on earth. Anyone who pretends that doesn't matter to them is either ignorant or lying.
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Okenshield69 I see and understand Luis through a different set of eyes.
Meaning: personally ( through JESUS) I do not fear, DEATH, nor CATASTROPHIC global events wheather such events be before or after seal 6.. [ It appears ] most Christians are afraid of dealing with 'normal' daily trials, so to think they will have to deal will such event as seal 6 and thereafter. Welllll !
The NAVY SEALS never look forward to a battle never-the-less he prepare his WHOLE body and mind for the worst of battles even if he die.
Do you want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. The last 3.5 the worst. The tribulation is for Jewish people and not Christians. These guys are clueless
You are lost if you cannot get into the rapture...
I lived in the days of the labor pains. They were getting closer and the feeling of darkness was closing in. The fear and upset was gripping me tight. I could not take it anymore and humbled myself in worship at the alter. I was changed. I was already saved many years but this time I knew I had to get rid of every last bit of darkness in my heart. No more lies not even white ones as they feel wrong and dark. God loves the truth and there is nothing to be ashamed of and I no longer have any intentions that are not motivated by unconditional love that is bigger than my own. He does this for me. I have no more anxiety or fear. I have joy unspeakable and I have discernment. I have empathy for anyone separated by sin because I know they suffer. I can not stand to see a person suffer or to even hear about it but It compels me to help wherever I can. I am compelled to share the gospel in an encouraging way that people can relate to. They can relate to the heart in their hearts and we can reach them only with Christs love. Matthew 22 34 to 40. I was baptized in fire. The old self dead and it was is if it came unexpectedly as If I was raptured. The change is extreme. I was even physically healed. I carry an ability to encourage people and leave them grinning ear to ear in love with the Lord as they experience the Lords Spirit. I dreamed about this many time in my life and now I live it wondering what miracle I will see or be part of next. So much has happened so quickly. My relationships have been healed. Some even delivered. Some manifest when I am with them. Some can not look me in the eye anymore. Some are delivered easily, Some not and it takes prayer and fasting and Gods help to reach their hearts. Go forth and expect more than what you expect from yourself if you are a child of God. He has so much more for you.
Please pray for me. I need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone near me that is, so no one to lay hands on me to pray in the Spirit. I have spinal cord damage that left me a paraplegic. Please pray for healing as well. Thank you in advance!
WOW
@@elainewat2607 JESUS HEALED YOU elaine. only believe. do not listen to your body.believe what GOD did for you. Salvation and healing are on the basis of faith in what GOD has already done for us through Jesus Christ. then our fresh and anything else will have to obey their creator. for you and me is to believe HIM.THE REST IS hIS. GLORY
@@elainewat2607 Closely follow the ministry of Joni Eareckson Tada, one of the most Godly, on-fire-for-Jesus women of our times... Despite also being paraplegic she has a huge ministry blessing many people, & walks very closely with Jesus. You can find many of her videos on You Tube. They are a huge blessing.
I'm a mid, looking forward to the rapture of Jesus. Bottom line, be saved and ready at any moment.
If it's Mid, how can the A/C rule for 7 years, as we are the restrainer that is removed to let him rule?
My faith is in the pre tribulation….. 🙌🏾 come Lord, come! I’m not sure why anyone would think that the church/bride of Christ would have to go through that horrible 7 year timeframe. It’s Jacobs trouble, not ours!
Well you could read the Bible and see we are PROMISED tribulation. Just look at the tell MILLIONS of Christians who have been imprisoned tortured and killed for their faith.
The Bible is clear, the dead rise first THEN we who are alive and remain will be taken up.
The Bible is also clear when the FIRST resurrection takes place, it's near the end of the trubulation. Rev 20
One of the major divine purposes for the Great tribulation in relation to Israel
The Church is not the bride of Christ there is no such thing.
Yes. Tribulation that Jesus said we will all face is not the 7 year period of the great tribulation. I just taught Old Testament Prophets in a Bible Institute. It is very obvious that there are promises and covenants given to Israel not yet fulfilled. Jacob is not the church.
The 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 through 8 are the Jews. Those mentioned from verse 9 and forward ("after these things...) are not the Jews ("a great multitude which no one could count from every nation and tribes and peoples and tongues...") ("these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."). It's plain to see for those with opened eyes and not preconceived notions not based on scripture.
John 6:39, John 17:15 father, I pray not that you take them out of this world, but keep them from the evil one.
This request by the Lord could extend to refusing any rapture ever. You use it to limit it to refusal of the pre-trib rapture, but you cannot do that. Jesus doesn't limit it. Mindless people have long used this verse to deny the pre-trib rapture. It's not your fault, you learned it from false teachers.
SO EXPLAIN THE PART WHEN THE DEAD WILL RISE AND THE LIVING WILL MEET THE LORD IN THE SKIES?
We need to get our minds and spirits prepped up for the Great Tribulation. Patience and faith will be very important for the saints (Rev. 13:10).
God has always delivered His believers before judgement. The main problem if you don't believe in the pre- tribulation rapture is that you will be left behind with the rest of the unbelievers.
Good luck to you if you’re waiting for the great tribulation, I’m waiting for the rapture of the church.
“I pray *not* that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest *keep* them from the evil.”
“But all these things *will they do unto you for my name's sake* because they know not him that sent me.”
{John 15:20-21}
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
{Acts 5:41}
If that was contextually speaking of the church going through the 70th Week, then all the righteous would need to be pre-tribulation raptured anyway so they could ALL go through the “7 Year Tribulation.”
Regardless of which way a Christian falls on this subject, we are so impressed at the respect the three people here showed for each other. We need more talks like this. Respecting another's interpretation and not shouting down a fellow Christian for believing a different way. We congratulate you on this lively teaching and debate!
Once you know the truth, you should not respect lies...
It's much like "Debating" the Sabbath...
There is ONE TRUE GOD ordained 7th Day Sabbath and there is the others illegitimately created by men...
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit...
@@bawbjusbawb6471 When you start to distinguish between what is truly, truly divine and what is man-made; when you can distinguish between what is "of the world" and what is "NOT of the word" (See John 17 and John 8 for example), then you start to see rightly and the TRUTH will set you free from slavery to man-made doctrines and traditions of organized religion.
... respect they show each other ? Don't they all take the same position on the subject ? - no pretrib rapture ?
Notice they didn’t invite someone who believes differently. Surrounding themselves with themselves like the Bible says
I use to be post trib...then I discovered the truth of pre-trib...Hallelujah.
Since the living and remaining can never precede the fallen-asleep [dead] (1Th 4:15), perhaps you can explain how the living can possibly be raptured before the dead whom Jesus promised to resurrect within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54).
@@alanlietzke5738 they’re not. You're having reading comprehension problems.
Amen me too
According to God's Word. John 15 vs 20
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;"
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, not with an utterly impossible and oxy moron "pre tribulation" notion.
What truth? Lol there's no pre trib doctrine...there's no truth its not going to happen as awesome as it would be.
There's going to be a LOT of people SHOCKED when the LORD makes His GLORIOUS APPEARING. At the end of the tribulation period, the hour of testing upon the earth, Christ will return with His Bride.
Yes and the church is his bride. We can't return if we never left. That right there debunks a post tribulation rapture.
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world “to test”those who live on the earth “____Revelation 3:10
If you want to go through the Tribulation Period, have fun because I won’t
You must be planning on dying soon?
Thank you someone that knows their Scripture. I made a long pretrib comment and proved them wrong and they removed it
@@georgeo785 how many times are you going to post this?
John 16 vs 33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
So you're not a follow of Jesus then @williamrussolesi6052?
Jesus told us Christians, His followers, that we would have tribulation.
Only those who reject Jesus will not be persecuted..... lest they persecute themselves... LOL
Greetings to you!!
You describe exactly what I am saying for YEARS (since 1994. when I converted) - and I am trying to explain to my pre-tribulation friends that the word MEET mean what the brother in the video said.
In our language (I am from Balkan, sought Europe, slavic language) it literary means what you describe....
God bless you! 🧡
And the rest brothers and sisters who does not (yet) see it 🙂🧡
Amen!!!
It greatly saddens me that he has to mention John MacArthur, who denies that the atonement is through the blood of Jesus!!! plus, he tells people that they can take the mark of the beast and still get saved!!! John MacArthur is a wolf!!!!!!!!!!
Reject all you want. If you're truly saved, you'll still go with us. Praying for you to see the truth.
And if you are truly saved Yahweh will keep, protect you through the great tribulation. Just like he did Noah and Lot. He protected them through it all.
@Eugene Roy he spared them from those events. Removing lot from the situation all together.
@@EBRoyJr .... he not only saved and protected Noah "through" the flood, but God also protected all the Hebrews through the plagues God put on the Egyptians through Moses. If you noticed, not one of the plagues touched even one Hebrew, only the Egyptians.
It will be the same way through the Great Tribulation.
I agree with you brother. If a person is saved and it turns out to be a pre-trib rapture, then we will "all" go then the rapture happens. If it turns out to be a post-trib rapture, then we will all go through the Great Tribulation and we will all go in the rapture when it happens.
NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. This is man's superstition used upon the people to make them think that this is a punishment from God that they will be left behind and not get to go in the rapture if you refuse to believe that it is a pre-trib rapture.
If you remember, when Jesus was talking to the Sanhedrin, the Religious Leaders, he said you will not enter in and you keep the people from entering in.
Y E P!!!!!!
I graduated from Calvary Chapel Ministers Bible College.
Jack Hibbs is my Pastor.
Any pastor that knows the Scriptures is pretrib. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone
@@georgeo785 I know the scriptures as well as anyone I know. I’ve got multiple degrees and I can understand difficult concepts on some level even outside my fields of study. That said, with all the years I’ve studied the pre trib rapture-all the books, all the teachings, all the textual studies-I’ve never been able to get it to reasonably harmonize with an honest reading of scripture. There’s too much stretching the text, too many disingenuous acrobatics around objections.
Ultimately, I could be wrong and the pre trib rapture could be right. I mean, God can do whatever he wants. Just don’t put all your eggs in that basket. It’s chock full of holes.
I got tired listening to this teacher, they stick their view on one event No Rapture, one big Return). He’s so nervous trying to disprove pretrib and doesn’t go over Jewish salvation as a people! Day of the Lord not mentioned in first video. Trying to review for a soon coming class that will be team taught.
@@georgeo785
Why not share the scriptures that you think so obviously prove pre-trib rapture?
@@georgeo785 At one time Jack Hibbs was post trib so he knows both sides of the argument... To many contortions to make post trib work. I am Pre-Trib and will keep my lamp filled with oil the whole time. (I seriously don't understand how people can get so wound up about this.)
I am astounded. Only a few days ago was I suddenly alerted to Matthew 24 and how it shows only one coming at the end. I was a pre-tribulationist before. Your series on this subject is phenomenal. I am getting a real urgency from the Holy Spirit that we need to get this message out loud and quickly. There is so much misinformation about this subject I really fear people will fall away massively when they realise that Jesus hasn't come and that they will have to go through right until the end.
I totally agree we need to put it out there the truth!!! Revelation 20:4- 6 Matthew 24:29- 31 and the warning revelation 22:18-19 if you add to this book the plagues will be added to you if you take away from this book your name will be taken from the Tree of Life this is very serious!!!!!
There's going to be mass genocide because many will refused the RFID the Globalists are going to kill all who refused if your a saint you will be killed unless you go into hiding if your found you will be martyrs the rapture is before the battle of Armageddon there will be no church buildings because of persecution there will home church underground like it was originally the Globalists are closing churches right many pastor are in jailed as of now obey Acts 2 38
I go back and forth. I think Derek Walker has the best arguments for pretrib
Exactly brother. The Bible says. “Many shall be offended and fall away” offended why? PREtrib rapture lie maybe. Fall away from the faith? Yes
It’s important to rightly divide, Mathew 24 is speaking of the future for sure, for the Jews in the tribulation.
We are in the time of the gentiles, the church age. During the great tribulation the time of the gentiles will be fulfilled and God will be dealing with the Jews…
Watch and pray that you will be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Lord. For the elects sake I have shortened those days.
The “elect” are the Jews
Indeed. The elect will be there. Jesus clearly stated as much. And false teaching about a pre-trib rapture is why many of them will be deceived into not believing what they're experiencing is the end times tribulation.
That’s only one verse and it’s out of context. God’s word is one letter to us.
@@kennethbyrd4437
So what does Luke 21:36 mean?
@@jimalexander687
The elect in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which corresponds to the same events Luke 21 is speaking of, are Jews, not the church.
Very good point "being left as saved" not being swept away and gone. It makes sense!
Here’s why i believe in pre trib, as an attorney who practices competitive reading comprehension
1. Church isn’t mentioned in the trib/great trib chapters. John had 16 chapters there to talk about the church and he didn’t.
2. Trib/great trib are Jacob’s, not the Church’s. It’s design is to break Israel’s will to defy their Messiah.
3. A post trib accomplishes nothing. Why rapture then return us nano-moments later? Makes no sense.
4. Jesus himself said “… that you may escape…” but really this should be reason #1-18.
5. the rapture revisits the Noahic Ark archetype of preserving a holy selected entity from difficult times
6. It’s consistent with God’s merciful nature
7. DAMAGES. More than anything, a post trib would deprive the church of hope.
FYI a rapture is not a “coming” of Jesus.
The guy in the middle should consider speaking more humbly, as a servant of God should speak who presumes to teach. He’s not a caustic auctioneer. He’s presumably speaking the Holy Spirit’s doctrine.
The church is certainly mentioned throughout the book rev. Rev12v17, those who die in the blood of the lamb, the two lampstands and olive trees, the two witnesses are the church
The tribulation is for all nations, Satan's time with us, hence we see those who come out of great tribulation from all nations, why go through it? Because we witness for Christ during that time as well. Jesus was clear, He raises all who belong to Him and comes for all who belong to Him at the same time, on the last day.
Pre trib contradicts the salvation gospel, contradicts scripture also adds and takes away from it
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@issuesthatmatter2825 Rev 12 is about a brief overview of the history of man, *TOLD IN THE STARS,* showing the power of God's might !
God said himself, church never suffer wrath. Pre trib is scripture!!
Great teaching but please try to speak much slower very difficult to concentrate
Just set the speed to 0.75
Can always pause it, when needed
@@annmarie2964 exactly he sounds normal at .75. Christian Ben Shapiro.
@@koinkollector2873 😢😢🎉
No one knows the day or hour. That tells me to be ready. Amen
Jesus told us He is going to prepare a place for us and will return to take us to be with Him. Then we return to Earth after the 7 year tribulation. When we are caught up at the rapture, each one of us stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat judgment, then we receive our eternal, resurrected bodies, celebrate the marriage of the Lamb, then return with Jesus to rule with Him at the New Jerusalem for the Millennial Reign. Praise Jesus. Thank You Jesus. Maranatha Jesus.
I am pre-trib. Revelations 3:6 the Church is still being addressed. Then in 3:9 the Church no longer being addressed. There will be those who will be saved and will not take the mark of the beast. They will die as martyrs. We must live our lives everyday as Christ has taught us. Be prepared and pray for those who are lost and for those who have rejected Christ. I just finished a very indepth Bible study with Dr. David Jeremiah Revelation series.
There’s many verses that you haven’t read Dr. Jeremiah was only one man show revelation seven verse 13 chapter 12 verses 13 through 17 chapter 13 verse 10, chapter 14 verse 12 Daniel eight verses 19 through 24. Those are just a few the Saints will be here.
Also, John sees the church in revelation 5 verse 9. Tribulation starts in chapter 6.
The church is on earth after Revelation 4. Those John saw in Revelation 7 are the church. The angel specifically said they had come out of great tribulation. The book of Revalation is not a book with a linear timeline....straight timeline with one thing happening one after another. Revelation is a circular book showing multiple things happening at the same time.
The assembly of believers is only mentioned prior because of the letters to the churches. Bad argument to base you belief in pre-trib on.
Why should human understanding create a doctrine and teach it because the church is not mentioned after the 4th chapter of Revelation
the truth in the Lord proclaimed!!! and it brings true comfort to those who seek the truth and know it!!! brilliant!!! absolutely brilliant discerning of the Holy Scriptures for His glory...
Hello brothers. So I’ve been looking into pre-TRIB or post TRIB. Can someone explain to me, that is pre-TRIB, how Paul’s teaching about the Lawless one appearing makes sense if Christians that he was writing to would’ve never seen the anti-Christ. How could it be a sign that the day the lord hasn’t come yet, because the lawless one hasn’t appeared.
Shouldn’t he be pointing to signs that would occur before the rapture, not after?
Im pre-trib but it really dont matter when as long as He comes! Just stay ready!
This is great teaching but the guy in the middle needs to slow down. I found him difficult to listen to he was speeding so fast.
Comfort one another with these words!!!!!
Or tickle the ears...
The words are pretrib. Tribulation is for Jewish people and not Christians. We are gone
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
☝What George said is fact.
God is pro two rapture's
1- God has appointed us the church to wrath
2- it's a time of the gentle church trouble not Jacobs trouble
3- do not comfort one another with these word's you will suffer
4- the churches 70th week Daniels 69th week is done
5-the tribulation is to punish believers for believing in Jesus
6- all good men leave their brides to be down town all night before their wedding to test them
7- Matthew 24 is talking to the seven church's not the Jewish people
8- Matthew 24 was a direct letter to the church's
9- the church is to flee to the wilderness of Judea
10- the church is to be worried about fleeing in the Sabbath day
11- the elect saint's are only baptized Christians not Jews
12- there's only one rapture to Jerusalem and it's done by angels from the 4 winds or 4 corners of the earth. The other rapture being called up is not real
If the church taught two raptures one to heaven called up by God himself and one gathered by angels to Jerusalem. Teaching Matthew is written to the Jews by a few for the Jews rightly dividing the scripture
Paul have letters to the churches
Jesus spoke to the Jews concerning the future of the Jewish nation.
It's a time of Jacobs trouble
God punishes the unbelievers
The bible teaches 2 raptures.
Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, 1 Thessalonians 4 :
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
The so called "pre trib" oxy moron is a deception and not comforting because it is NOT the truth.
Praise Jesus, for He is the way, the TRUTH, the life and the light of the world!
Please post the name and author of momentary of First Thessalonians you referenced
I read and was taught Matthew 24 as being directed towards the Jewish people and Israel. You mentioned Matthew 24:31 (The great trumpet) but if we reference that to Isaiah 27:12-13 it clearly states the gathered as “O sons of Israel” and a great trumpet. Ch. 26:19-21 seems to reference the rapture, tribulation and second coming in 3 verses. Please explain…
The coffee this man drinks must be on the whole other level!!
Ha ha! I changed the playback speed to .75 so I could keep up!
He is to hyper, his is good with scripture, but slow down a gear.
He’s WAY BEYOND drinking. This cat mainlines it.
I appreciate the fellow who starts this discussion by appealing to humility on all sides. That is wise. Every position on this topic has problem passages.
Sadly, that same fellow also continuously refers to the Rapture as “the secret rapture”, which is not a term that any pre-Trib teacher I have heard has used. I have heard a LOT of pre-Trib critics use it in their presentations. I’m not saying NO pre-Trib person has used the term, but I have never encountered it except from the mouth of those attacking the pre-Trib position. Such rhetorical devices shouldn’t be necessary if the critic’s case is strong enough to carry the day.
Moe, Larry and Curly. No clue. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians will be gone
I will pray that all of you will have a wonderful time while you're going through the GREAT TRIBULATION. HAVE Fun
Another biblical and historical illiterate.
Do you actually believe that they want to go through the Great tribulation and, therefore, they don't believe in the pre-tribulation?
you mock God?
You have no choice of when you will go to meet the Lord other than suicide. So don't be so crass.
You'll be there, what a dumb thing to say to suffering children of God, have fun, Are you serious? Is this funny for you,? Repent you carnal human being,
Jesus said we would suffer for his names sake. Our suffering will not be from God’s wrath.
After 50 years, I still can’t find Rapture mentioned in the scripture.
In Greek it is harpadzo, in Latin it is Rapturo, in English it is "caught up"
Read the Bible. Those "Snatched up"!
Read 1 and 2 Thesalonians
May I suggest finding Dr Andy Woods and Dr JB Hixson. You'll be blessed by listening to them.
Thank you! This teaching is so good. I've been on this journey,alone, trying to understand the truth of the end times. But in my heart and understanding of what I read myself it seemed a pre-trib rapture explanation seemed almost ridiculous (not to be sounding proud about my belief). You haven't even taught all of your points you wanted to make and it seems so clear to me now.
It is outside the character and nature of the goodness of God to punish the righteous with the unrighteous. Any punishment is a slap to the face of the One who bought believers with His perfect blood and healed us with His broken body.😢 sad teachings. Sad days of great deceptions.
"I'm going to give you 13 reasons to doubt..."
It rains on the just and the unjust, the sun shines on the just and the unjust 😉 tribulation, just and unjust
We shall go through tribulation for our own benefit on our journey to Him 🙏
@@earlclep1
We must enter tribulation to inherit the kingdom if God (Acts 14:22; Rev. 1:9), but tribulation (Greek: thlipsis) happens to all saints through the Church Age and the 70th Week. The 70th Week that is given the doctrinal term (7 Year Tribulation) is not thlipsis.
Acts 14:22
“...must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Post tribbers and pre-wrathers are implying that all people have to go through the 70th Week of Daniel in order to enter the kingdom and be saved from hell.
What Acts 14:22 is not saying that you imply is all Christians are going to have to go through the 70th Week of Daniel, or all saints in heaven would need to be resurrected pre trib anyway to go through this last 7 years of Daniels 70 Weeks (Dan. 9:24-27).
You are wrongly stuck with associating the word “tribulation” with the doctrinal term “7 Year Tribulation,” which is biblically called “Daniels 70th Week.” (Dan. 9:24-27).
It is accurate that we will go through tribulation (Jn. 17:15; Acts 14:22), but not the 70th Week where God focuses His attention and focus back to Israel for the purpose:
@@earlclep1 I believe that fits properly. The person above in the comments was saying why would God judge the believers with ubelievers.....saying it is like God slapping us in the face. But we have to remember that god is judging this world spiritually in different ways as we speak........ and we are all mingled together on earth. Also, the Bible says not to pull up the tares till the end........ At the end, GOD IS THE SIFTER.......................
Pre Trib rapture believer. Still we are one in Christ. Freedom of choice is yours. 🙏💚❤️💙
You are not in Christ, for if you were you would have the truth, for Jesus IS the Truth, the way, the life and the light of the world.
Wow. He talks so fast I can’t breath!
Why is it every post trib talk, discussion and argument just confirms my pretrib belief?
I changed the playback speed to 0.75
that was outstanding !! Several key points you brought out that had not occurred to me before, but I have always thought to myself, "how many last trumpets are there". That never made sense to me either.
thats good i agree it's at the last trumpet.pre trib dont study scripture properly
If you read 1 Thessalonians 4 16
God himself will decent from heaven (with the trump of God) the dead in Christ will rise first and he is alive and remains……(encourage one another with these words)
Not the 7th angel mentioned in revelation 6. They are different trumpets.
Suddenly in a twinkling of an eye, at last Trump, the dead in Christ will rise first……
Trumpets are blown on many Jewish feasts. The Trump of God was at Pentecost. Trumps are blown at rosh Hashanah in thr fall which is 'the feasts of no man knows' ....also feasts of tabernacles. Let the holy spirit guide you and pray for wisdom. Rev 3.10
Thank you. I still believe in Pre Tri. Shalom.
Most people that can understand Scripture feel the same way. These guys are clueless. The tribulation is for Jewish people and unsaved mainly Jewish people. We are gone
T h i s ^^
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The Holy city is Jerusalem, Jewish people belong in it. Satan wants to sit on the throne of David. The church wasn't even a concept when this verse was written.
The church is gone as George stated because the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. The time of the gentiles began when God cursed the kings bloodline making it impossible for Jesus Christ to have a human father. It was confirmed by Paul when he told the Pharisees that the gospel was taken from them and given to the gentiles at the end of the book of Acts. The time of the gentiles is fulfilled before the tribulation and that is why the church disappeared in Revelation ch4, literally raptured if you pay attention to what is going on.
@@georgeo785 They never stop to ask why the antichrist makes a covenant with the Jews if the church is still here and is the real representative of God.
Also why do the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem?
So many hoops to jump through for them to make scripture fit their view.
Plus all the false cults of "Christianity" Like Catholicism, Mormonism, SDA, JW either believe in a posttrib rapture or reject pretrib rapture. That is a big red flag.
czcams.com/video/Lx7HLkZRgTs/video.html
The relevance of being correct on the timing of the rapture is of great importance. Those who hold to a pre position, if wrong will become dismayed, disheartened, and resentful, feeling they were lied to. How great wil the "falling away" then be.
Did you get my comment. What idiot would want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Daniel's 70th week and the time of Jacob's trouble. Jewish not Christians
Exactly! I already already know of one brother, a former employer, who told me he would turn away from the Lord if he had to be here for the tribulation. Sadly, he already started walking away by divorcing his wife without their being adultery, and marrying another woman.
I think that some people believe that there will be a pre-tribulation rapture because they are afraid to be tested incase they turn away and who wouldn't be . Instead I think we should be thankful that our Father deems us worthy of the testing rather than be just chaff to be thrown into the fire , " Lord make me worthy of your love and forgiveness , Let me not be afraid but grant me courage for what is to come and shelter me in your word I pray , amen ".
@alonzomaynard9500 ... yes! Great point. I keep meaning to bring that up. You're this first person I've come across to actually raise this. Welll done!!
what’s the difference between tribulation and the Great Tribulation of the Lord
Excellent description of the tribulation period. What will happen when The Lord returns? Revelation 12:5, 19:15- after the 2nd coming of our Lord!
If your saved, it really doesn’t make any difference, if you are pre trib, or believe we’ll be called home in the middle, or post tribulation. Revelation, 3:10 Because thou has kept the word, of my patience, I will also keep the from, the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
We need to apply 2 Timothy 2:15 or rightly dividing the Word of Truth to understand Scripture because there are passages in the bible that are specifically for a group of people. We can't apply all passages to all people because we will only be confused.
These guys are clueless. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone.
Do you have a study on John 14?
He’s very good at explaining this I’ve been looking for him for a while someone to explain it
Rapture doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830:
1. John Nelson Darby invented the false doctrine of the Rapture 1830-1833 AD and popularized it in 1850 to which it infected us today. While Morgan Edwards had also invented the doctrine in a college essay in 1744 AD, his work was isolated, forgotten and irrelevant as an etiology of the modern popularity of pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Darby invented the doctrine without any influence or reliance on Edwards.
2. Morgan Edwards wrote this short essay as a paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744. After he immigrated to the USA, the essay was published in Philadelphia in 1788. It is clear that his school paper went as unnoticed as his formal publication in 1788 AD. While Edwards may in fact be the earliest person on earth to invent the pre-tribulation rapture, it is equally clear that Darby invented the same doctrine in 1830 AD and made it popular 100 years later in 1850 AD. "The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.: I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's " appearing in the air" (1 Thes. iv, 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many " mansions in the father's house of God" (John xiv: 2), and to disappear during the foresaid period of time. ... V. That spot of earth which. Christ will make the seat of his governments Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt, as we shall prove by and by and that temple will be the house of Christ kingdom. ... VI. The risen and changed saints shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. I do not mean that all will be kings; for some are to be Christ' s priests, some judges, some rulers over cities, some over his household, some over his goods, (as wee shall see anon) and some his special chorister and musicians. (Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties, Morgan Edwards, 1744 AD, 1788 AD)
3. Darby notes that the doctrine "popped into his head" in 1830 AD. Before this, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.
4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided.
5. Modern influences of Darby include Dallas Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe and Harold Camping, the Scofield Reference Bible.
6. Darby's Rapture theology has infected almost every conservative protestant church, except for a few groups like the Churches of Christ, who rejected it as a non-Biblical doctrine and have denounced it ever since like all other man made doctrines.
The Great Tribulation of the Bible is 70AD ... The Total Destruction of Jerusalem ... Why ... Their Rejection of Christ and His Crucifixion ... This completed the 70th week of Daniel ... think about this ... why would God postpone the 70th week for an additional 2023 years + when the first 69 were in succession ... ??? God is not a God of Confusion ... God would not make it so hard to understand ... Not only was Jerusalem destroyed but it started a year or two before 70AD with the destruction of Every Major City in Israel ... I would say that was a Great Tribulation ... The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army Destroying the Temple and Jerusalem ... Jesus came to Fullfil their laws and warn the Jews and teach them and others to become Fishers of Men to carry on The Gospel into the Future ...
Not at all true about John Nelson Darby -- the first century Christians (including the original apostles and also the apostle Paul) and the early church fathers who followed them into the next century, believed in the pre-tribulation Rapture of "the church" ("church" being defined as the collective body of believers in Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of denomination or sect). At the end of the second century and continuing into the third century (a.d.), a second school of Christian thought began to emerge in Alexandria, Egypt, which began to compete against the teachings of the first school founded in Antioch, Syria, by the apostle Paul et. al. The Alexandrian school was steeped in Greek philosophy as well as gnosticism and other heretical practices/beliefs. Early philosophers/theologicans like Philo and Origen embraced the Alexandrian teachings rather than the true teachings from the Antiochian school. Augustine came on the scene about 100 years (or so) after Origen, and Augustine embraced Origen's teachings. Augustine then developed the initial concept of an amillennial or allegorical (instead of a literal) 1000-year reign of the Lord upon the earth. Augustine's teachings were embraced by what came to be the Roman Catholic church . . . and that church was the "only game in town" from about 500 a.d. ("ish") until 1517, when John Calvin nailed his 95 theses (originally in Latin) on the door of the church/cathedral at Wittenburg, Germany . . . launching the Protestant Reformation against the RCC. Dr. Andrew Marshall Woods (senior pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church near Houston, Texas) often states in his teachings that Augustine was probably the most influential person in Christian history . . . but NOT in a good way). Throughout the Protestant Reformation and continuing even to the present day, Augustine's false teachings (which were captured in his book "The City of God," have invaded the Christian church collective, being disguised as "Reformed Theology" concepts and theology. In the 1800's, while convalescing at home for the better part of a year following a serious riding accident, John Nelson Darby spent numerous hours studying the Bible and discovered the errors in Augustine's teachings on the topic of the Rapture of the church compared to the biblical text. Darby revitalized the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine which was the original doctrine taught by the original apostles (including Paul) and the early church fathers in the second and early third centuries -- until the gnostic heresies of the Alexandrian school and Augustine took over and became the more dominant theology in the Christian communities around the world.
And I could give about 13 reasons for pre trip rapture. I guess we will see. Doesn't matter really. But in the old testament when it was man's wrath God allowed his people go through it , if it was his wrath and he took his people out. I am preparing either way... because ultimately we dont know. I've heard both arguments and I am kinda sticking with mid trib...we may go through stuff...but hoping for pre
Please share your reasons if they are not inferring an interpretation onto a text that is not clearly presented such as Noah and the flood.
Agreed, I feel you have to be ready to go through some stuff. If you are not you will be devastated to have to go through persecution. Thessalonians 2-2 talks about Jesus not returning until the lawlessness one is exposed in the temple.
It matters because many will fall away because they were deceived by pre trib teaching. The dead in Christ rise first! Who are they? Rev 20;4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. V5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Only those spoken of will rise and rule with Jesus during the 1,000 years. The wrath of God is poured out on the unbelieving. God protects his own, just like in the time of Moses. The reason why this matters is when Christians have to suffer many will fall away because their belief was in error and they will think the Bible was not true because they were taught this FALSE TEACHING.
Do give your 13 reasons please... I want to know
Why should the branches, grafted into the root, be taken up before the olive tree?
A few points I would like to make. He says 14:36 into the video that the saved are left behind to meet Jesus while the evil people are swept away. He is possibly confusing this with the sheep and goat judgement at the end of the Great Trib but the fact that he does not refer to the sheep and goat judgement indicates to me he has not thought of it. Regarding Noah in the boat, this is my interpretation: Eight people (8=New Beginning) got IN TO a boat, an enclosure, a place of safety, while the storm raged "outside" (down on Earth). That place of safety is Heaven. And the Ark's door remained open 7 days before God shut the door Himself, which to me means there will be a sovereign sign to true believers and those tipping on the fence that the rapture is about to happen, perhaps a week in advance - the sign being a trumpet, not the Trumpet of Revelation. There is an interesting connection between 1 Thes. 4:16 and Exodus 19:13, and both involve the Trumpet Call of God. In these two cases and only these two it’s the sound of the trumpet that’s important, not the trumpet itself, and in both cases the sound is said to be coming from God. It's like a train whistle....pheeeeep - it's time to go!! Also, the post Trib view cuts out the Bema seat judgement where believers are rewarded and the marriage of the Lamb.
Revelation 3:10 Jesus said….. I will keep you FROM the hour of testing that comes upon the whole earth. Not OUT OF but FROM.
Interesting parallel use of the same Greek language from revelation 3 found in John 17. Jesus prayed nor that we woild be "taken out of the world" but that we would be protected during the time of persecution that was to come.
Please don't forget1Cor.15:50-58. You should also teach where this Rature teaching came from Mary MacDonald,John Darby, and Scofield. I believe this teaching for many years until I really studied the book of Revelation and kept seeing the word Overcomer right up to the end of the book. I also have been blessed to listen to many good teachers like Jesse Gistand , Bruce Gore,Charles Balwin etc.
There were many pre-trib rapturists among the Puritans. The story about the girl's vision as convincing Darby is as mythical as that he learned his teaching from Jesuits! Use your head.
Actually it came from the Holy Ghost in the original manuscripts.....via the Harpazo teaching in II Thessalonians. Harpazo is Greek in those manuscripts for "snatched away or taken by force".
The Rapture teaching came long before those people.
Have a nice day.
Well, those “good teachers” are wrong! Look in the O.T. and see how God saved His people from His coming wrath. Noah and the Flood, as well as Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah! Try saying that those examples are irrelevant!
“What shall be the sign of thy coming?” Parousia (GSN-) is Greek for “coming,” meaning personal visible presence or reappearing.
There will be two appearances Christians refer to.
The first will be the rapture, which is a personal coming in the air (not to the earth) for the saints (1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:13-17; 5:23; 1 Cor. 15:23, 51-58; 2 Thess. 2:1,7-8; Jas. 5:7-8; 1 Jn. 2:28; Jn. 14:1-3; Rev. 4:1).
The second will be the Second Coming to earth with His saints to reign (Mt. 24:3, 27-51; 25:31-46; Jude 1:14-15; Rev. 19:11-21; Dan. 7:13-14, 18, 22, 27; Zech. 14:1-5).
@@valindamcqueen2443 😂
Doesn't Jesus call the tribulation period, after the 7-year treaty/covenant is broken midway through, the "Great Tribulation"? (Matt. 24:21).
please explain what the purpose of "The Tribulation " is for.
TWO PURPOSES FOR "The Tribulation" -- 1) To bring an unbelieving Nation of Israel into believing faith in the Christ Jesus as their Messiah and King; and 2) To bring God's Wrath and ultimate destruction to the rest of the unbelieving world. Pretty simple . . .
Excellent presentation! Thank you 😊
Now this is what you call what Paul warned about . TWISTING SCRIPTURE
Are you guys dispensational or covenant people?
Thank you!
I think what is important to understand is that the emphasis should be on the resurrection. The resurrection and the rapture happen at the same time but the dead in Christ are resurrected first and then we that remain. The resurrection is a big deal. Christ was resurrected and that is a big deal. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have a hope.
Amen!
They are both the Rapture as Jesus come for those saved in the church age that trusted and had Faith in what Jesus did on the cross and faith in His blood and His resurrection.
rapture is the ressurection and ascension of the living..
Hal Lindsay is much needed here to carefully explain events in a calm manner. He has studied Eschatology for 70 years.
I don't buy your argument from authority. With all due respect to Mr. Lindsay, his authority on the subject is not greater than that of Jesus, who explicitly laid out a timeline for us in the Olivet discourse when he said "after the tribulation of those days". Neither is he a greater authority on the subject than the apostle Paul who places the transformation of the church and her rescue as immediately subsequent to the resurrection of the dead saints, or John who quotes Jesus as saying that the saints will be raised up on the "last day".
Excellent Gentlemen
I agree with your thesis.
What is the purpose of the rapture?
Pre trib, mid trib, and post trib are all true and its in scripture. That's why many argue and can each prove it with scripture. Its not just one. Its God's harvest model throughout the whole bible and its revealed in the gospels. That's why all 3 gospels speak of the same story but different. They are speaking to 3 different groups of people. Luke is to the bride of Christ that goes pre trib. Mark is to left behind church that goes mid trib. Matthew is to the jews and they are post trib. Ex. In Mark and Matthew before Jesus dies on the cross he says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" but in Luke he says "Father into your hands I commend my Spirit. In Mark and Matthew Jesus is given a purple and scarlet robe when going to the cross. In Luke he's given a gorgeous bright robe. In revelation during the tribulation you see purple and scarlet being referenced (no mention of that gorgeous bright color). In Mark and Matthew Jesus says "no man knows the day and hour" but in Luke he says watch and pray that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things. Clearly he's saying different things for different reasons. God doesn't take everyone all at once. Like a harvest field you take the first 10% first. Then its the 90%, then last its the corners and gleanings. its laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other scriptures. There's so many other scriptures I can't write them all here.
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Dude your exactly right, this makes so much sense thank you
THE TRUTH ABOUT 1 THESS. 4:13-17 THE DEAD ARE RESURRECTED FIRST, SO THERE CAN'T BE A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH OF THOSE ALIVE IN CHRIST!
a
THE COMING OF THE LORD, not pre-trib gathering before great tribulation!
b
"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about THOSE WHO FALL ASLEEP, or to grieve like rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that God WILL BRING WITH JESUS THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM! According to the Lord's Own Word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the COMING OF THE LORD, will certainly NOT PRECEDE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN CHRIST. For the Lord Himself Will COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, With a Loud Command, with the voice of the archangel and with the Trumpet Call of God, and the DEAD IN CHRIST will RISE FIRST. After That, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord Forever" (1 Thess. 4:13-17)
b
Verse 13: "THOSE WHO FALL ASLEEP"
Verse 14: "THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM[JESUS]
Verse 16: "THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP"
Verse 16: "THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST"
c
Question: Who will Rise First?
d
Answer: The Dead in Christ Will Rise First! The Ones that are mentioned in Verses 13 and 14 and 16!
e
Major Point: THIS IS THE RESURRECTION!
f
Thus, the Living in Christ Will Rise Second, This is the Opposite of the pre-trib rapture stance!
e
Question: When are the Dead in Christ Raised?
f
Answer: When, "the LORD Himself will Come Down From Heaven." That is, At the Visible Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ!
g
Point: After the Dead in Christ are Raised First, THEN those Alive are Raised SECOND!
h
Major Point: If the Dead in Christ are Raised or Raptured First, and they are Given their New Resurrection Bodies FIRST, THEN HOW CAN THERE BE A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE of the Living! For if there was to be a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church, Paul would have said that: THOSE IN CHRIST ARE RAISED FIRST! But he Didn't!
i
Did I miss something? Nope! For: "Those who are Left till the COMING OF THE LORD, will certainly NOT Precede THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN HIM" [the Lord Jesus Christ]
j
The Second Major Point: There will NOT be a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church BEFORE THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE GIVEN THEIR NEW RESURRECTION BODIES!
k
The Third Major Point gave me goosebumps: "God will bring with Jesus Those who have Fallen Asleep in Christ." Don't miss this: WHEN JESUS COMES, He will bring with Him THOSE WHO HAVE DIED IN HIM! They are the DEAD IN CHRIST!
l
"But Christ has indeed been Raised from the Dead, the firstfruits of THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP. For since death came through a man, the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD comes also through a man. For as in Adam all Die, so in Christ all will BE MADE ALIVE. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; THEN, WHEN HE COMES, THOSE WHO BELONG TO HIM"[Those who are Still Alive]
m
The Third Major Point: the FirstFruits, the Dead in Christ are the First to be Given their New Resurrection Bodies! Then, Immediately Afterwards Those who are still Alive that are LIVING FOR JESUS CHRIST Will be Given their New Resurrection Bodies, "WHEN HE COMES." That's At the Second Coming of Christ, When Jesus Christ COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN!
n
"I Declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a Mystery: WE WILL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we will all be Changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For the Trumpet WILL SOUND, the DEAD WILL BE RAISED IMPERISHABLE, and we will all be Changed" (1 Cor. 15:50-52)
o
The Most Obvious Point is that pre-trib rapture teaches that this Scripture is about the pre-trib rapture of the Church! They are only part right: This is Indeed the Rapture of the Church, but it is ALSO THE RESURRECTION! It is the RESURRECTION RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH! It Happens when the LAST TRUMPET IS SOUNDED and When Jesus Christ Returns! There is No Room for a pre-trib rapture, ONLY THE SECOND COMING of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
p
Final Point: the SECOND COMING is Also the GREAT GATHERING[the RAPTURE] and the RESURRECTION! They are Tied Together and are the: "Blessed Hope--the Glorious Appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13) Those who Do Not Follow Jesus Christ and Those who Do Not Belong to the Lamb Jesus Christ, there is NO HOPE! Those who Long for His Second Coming, There is the Blessed Hope which can only be found in Jesus Christ Himself!
They all preceded by the same event. Sun darkened. Moon turn blood. Stars fall from sky. It's the same event
Only the angels that were sent from above, is removed now, we didn't fall with lucifer and will not go through judgement. 12 million kept safe inside the desert, most, raised from the dead, we will come out onto new earth, as Yeshua comes down in the clouds, somewhere in 2025. Zion the Bride (144,000), will go safely through tribulation, judgement and will only be removed before 3 days of darkness, after 3 days, they will return and hand out water & bread to those still alive. Children up to 12 years will also be removed before 3 days of darkness. The rest will have to hold God's hand tight to make it onto new earth safely and should not fear what's coming.
That's false.
One Major Reason to Believe in the Rapture: the Book of Revelation devotes four chapters to this topic. Chapter six describes the reaction of every lost person left behind on Earth as they run for the mountains and flee the portals of Heaven and God. Chapter Seven introduces us to the numberless multitude who were saved from the Great Tribulation.
It literally says they went thru the great tribulation and Jesus said he will come back 1 time not twice
Problem is you don't see the difference between the faithful and unfaithful saved
@jefffrazier2465
The problem I have is why scripture clearly describes one appearing as taking us away (meet the Lord in the air) and another coming as coming back to set up His kingdom. My question is if he’s taking us away where are we going if He’s coming back to set up His kingdom with us.
What about the parallel between the rapture and Galilean wedding?
Why is there a clear distinction between the church and Israel?
In revelation what is the need of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and two witnesses if the church is on the earth evangelizing?
Who’s coming with Christ on white horses in Rev 19, is it the bride/army in white linens?
If we are the bride of Christ why would God beat up (wrath of God) his fiancée during the tribulation before the wedding?
Amen!!! Truth, how refreshing.
I totally agree. and this is how I have always believed, based on what I read in Scripture. Thank you so much for your discussion!
But if as the discussion concludes that ''it makes no sense for Christ to come gather his people then come back down again 7 years later i.e. arguing for a post tribulation ''rapture''-Then how can it make sense for Christ come [post 'Tribulation'] gather up his people then all come back down again immediately for the Milllennium Reign on earth?
Wouldn't it make sense that those raptured 7 years previously would return with him to rule over the survivors of the tribulation for a millennium?
Doesn't it make more sense that the true believers and righteous would not have to suffer the antichrist and the Tribulation? Because true believers don't need any more suffering to turn them into believers.
Let's face it, is there anyone going to be left in any doubt by the end of the Tribulation after the plagues 25% of the world dead, the attack on Isreal etc, so how can it be possible that Christ comes like thief in the night?
I think the post Tribbers are n denial and scared.
And to argue that it is better to be ''left behind'' seems to be opposed to all logic.
Can you ever imagine praying to be left behind? I can't
Yes of course the Noah's Ark analogy holds but not in every detail otherwise it would be a carbon copy and not an analogy would it?
IF there is any doubt, which there clearly is in on this issue-then shouldn't we go with logic?
And logic tells me that it has to be pre Tribulation otherwise
Christ went about preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM. MATT. 3:2, Luke 9:2. The disciples were sent to preach also the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom could not be our gospel of the church because Christ had not been sent to the cross yet. Our gospel is 1 COR. 15:1 So when you read MATT. 24:14 Christ said when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preach in all the world then the end shall come. REV. 14:6 I saw an angel with the everlasting gospel to PREACH to them that dwell on the earth. So that means the gospel of the kingdom being preach at the start of the thousand year reign. The gospel of the kingdom was only preach to the Jews not to the church. MATT.10:6 preach only to the lost sheep of Israel. All verses in MATT. 24 points to the gathering of Israel not the church which had not been started yet. MATT. 24:31 he will send his angels with the sound of a trumpet and gather his elect. ISA. 27:12-13 it shall come to past in that day, that the Lord shall beat off the channel of the great river unto a stream of Egypt and ye shall be GATHERED. ONE BY ONE. O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. 12 verse. And it shall come to past that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN. and they shall come which were ready to perish, come to worship the Lord in JERUSALEM. this is almost word for word of what is written in MATT. 24. When the Gentile church was proclaimed to be a replacement for the Jewish church in ACT. 13:46 Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said it was necessary that the word of God should be preach to you first, you judge yourself unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE. We turn to the Gentiles. Then Paul preach about a rapture for the church, which is to be taken out of this world by FORCE. We are now gather by the Spirit ROM. 8:11. The Spirit of him that raise up Christ from the dead dwell in you shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELL IN YOU. the church will not need no angels to gather us , because the SPIRIT OF GOD IN US SHALL GATHER AND change us just like Christ. Those in MATT 24 will still be mortal Jews. Matt. 24 is only talking about God moving back to Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles come into the church. ROM. 11:15 I believe I can prove that every verse in Matt. 24 is taking about God saving the Jews in the natural, But I want add all this right now because it is just too long of a study, but I will prove my statements if asked. There is an early rapture of the church, we are separate from the natural Jews that God shall also save.
Very well written and I totally agree with every word you’ve said. Excellent. God Bless.
The rapture is just when Jesus gathers his elect from the four winds. It's the same thing, the same event as his 2nd coming. Please share one passage in context that supports a pretrib rapture. Thanks.
Absolutely, he must divide the word for understanding. He is cramming it all together. Mathew 24 is about the Jews.
Thank you. I have copied your points to study over a coffee later. Being simple minded, I fell off when they ranted about our wanting to be 'left behind' as in the days of Noah ! Even as he read the scriptures it sounded perfectly clear that the left behind were the judged and dead. Talk about messing with your head - sounded á la Whoopy Goldberg twisting the word almost! CHRIST IS my ark; and we were not appointed to wrath, and so we can be comforted. Notwithstanding, I'm confident we'll all see each other in the clouds during the Rapture 😉having escaped from God's wrath, forever more in the mighty presence of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. Bless you.
I'm a Canadian astronomer. I believe I found the first 4 seals in the heavens. My last video shows this.
I respect all discussion/debate to fully understand and rightly divide scripture. This is how God is known.
To the question is it pre, mid or post? …my answer is three words, ALWAYS. BE. READY.
GOD BLESS
Thank you.
If you have not got salvation, he's not coming back for you, just keep looking for his coming!
This was an excellent discussion. Some might say it nit picky whether you are pre-trib or not, but it has major consequences. Consider those who believe in a such who eventually finding themselves living with in the persecutions and violence of the tribulation. Would that experience not test their faith and many fall by the wayside during those times. We must be prepared that we could very suffer and die because of your faith, as many in Africa do this very day. Would the Western Christian be that seed that fell on good soil and resist the heresy of those times? Would we deny Jesus to save our hides? One doesn’t know until experiencing such suffering. Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and he was already told that he would do so. Who will we fair in such circumstances? We must be prepared for no rapture and suffer the tribulation.
No Pre Trib Rapture , Not there ?
Paul stated that we shall meet the Lord in the air, his foot doesnt touch down on the mount of Olives when he comes to judge the nations. Also read Daniel Ch:12
Some People Believe They Have to Suffer and Paid The Price in Order To Be Qualified to inherit The Promise and Justify By Suffering !! But Lord Paid The Price and Clearly Says You are not Destin to My Wrath.
Dude! You talked way to fast that it was hard for me to keep up! 😅 but everything you said makes sense! And I have always leaned to post trib. I don’t see or understand how people can get a pre trib theory. I’m not sure if people just lack comprehension or people just really aren’t understanding and studying for themselves but just going by what everyone else says because it’s been taught for the past few hundred years.
Go to settings and slow audio
Adventures with Mimi I totally agree people have comprehension disabilities! They have a preconceived idea and want to stick with it and can’t look at facts of what the Scriptures actually are saying.
It helps so much to put that on 75% of the speed. It makes him sound perfectly normal 😂
How many Post Tribulation Christians are
preppers?
So what is it?
Found your part 2 on this talk last night and joyfully listened. This morning this teaching popped up on my feed. Your viewpoint is the way I read the Bible as well. Thank you! I feel affirmed in my interpretation while listening to you. I grew up with the mainline view of pre-rapture but as I began to mature in the Lord and study the bible I came to this same conclusion. Hard to convince others though .... Blessings!
Extremely hard to convince others because of pride!!! my concern is revelation 22:18-29 the warning if you add to this book plagues will be added to you if you take away from this book your name will be taken from the Tree of Life
Former General Patton said, "if everyone in the same room are all thinking all the same things, someone's not thinking". All people who preached "birth pang like preaching" for the past however many years weren't all saying that it's so much more possible now; so get more intense about being on edge type a thing. Paul anticipated the rapture at least in the time period of most of his writing. (There toward the very latter time of Paul's life he wrote in terms of his body dying physically more than in previous writings.) There seems to be that trib views do prompt studying areas of the bible, like Daniel that might not have otherwise been looked at as much. For one thing, the trib issues facilitated more people witnessing "the ministry of reconciliation" than might otherwise have been, so to speak. Thanks.
Paul when anticipating the Rapture does not divide it into a separate event from the 2nd Coming.
It is one event not two.
No one knows the day or hour. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians will be gone
Has anyone asked how or when Paul was told about what Jesus said in Matthew regarding the last days, i.e., tribulation or rapture. Are we to ignore the mystery that was revealed to Paul. I can't find any suggestion of why Jesus would appear to Paul and ultimately send him and "his gospel" to the gentiles. It is said in Matthew that Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Is there a distinction between these different gospels (Kingdom and the Grace) and should we acknowledge a separate administration where Christ and His cross edifies and builds up us believers. BTW Paul never used the word Antichrist in his epistles.
Where do these verses fit in?
Isa 26:17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
Isa 26:18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
I think the reason people want to believe in a pretribulation rapture is because it would be easier to sign up new Christians. It would be a harder sell telling people they would have to go through the worst persecution and destruction in history. I know the rapture is after the tribulation. Everyone's faith and loyalty will be tested and that makes sense to attain everlasting life.
He that endures to the end shall be saved.
These 2 witnesses of scripture seal it for me
2 Thessalonians 2:1,2 says the day of the lord and our gathering to him are the same day.
The parable of the wheat and tares says they both grow together till the harvest. The tares are gathered and burned in the fire then the wheat is gathered into the barn.
So what your saying is what Jesus did means nothing then??? He that endures to the end shall be saved are the Tribulation saints not the church, we are already saved by the blood of Jesus, we are not appointed to wrath. We are taken out of the way as we the church are part of the restrainer the Holy Spirit.
@@kamikaze49289For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@kamikaze4928 Amen amen amen!! That's what I preach over and over. Christians have gone through tribulation and persecution for 2000 years, beginning with John the Baptist. Therefore it is not possible for Jesus to be able to go back and save them from being killed if they've already been killed.
And even up to this day, Christians are going through tribulation. Right up until the last day there will be tribulation and persecution.
Tribulation applies to Christians. If there were no Christians around, if Jesus took everyone away before they went through tribulation, then there would be no tribulation at all. It just wouldnt exist. But sadly, these pre tribbers lack common sense and cannot see that "pre trib" is an oxy moron.
@@topcatcoolio8807 Wrath?? LOL ... we're not talking about WRATH here buddy! We're talking about "tribulation". Try to stay on topic. ;)
There’s a difference between “being in tribulation” and “being in ‘the’ tribulation”, the 7yr period/2, 3 1/2yr spans of time written in Rev. & Dan.
I really like; "The Olivet Discourse," not only because of what Christ said there,, but,, because it is easy to pull from without needing to leave any cites...Eg; "Do not be troubled by these things, as they must all come to pass, but, the end is not yet..." If they want a cite, Matt: 24 1-13 will work!!! Brother James Kendall Moore OSB OFS OSC ✝️