How NOT to Load CVA Muzzleloaders
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Bass Pro Shops "Testers", Allen Treadwell and CVA's CEO Dudley McGarity Gives graphic examples of what happens when muzzleloaders are used incorrectly.
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as a first year muzzleloader hunter I am so glad and thankful for these type of videos. I take gun safety seriously. these demonstrations are paramount to folks who have no one to teach them the safe and proper way to handle a muzzleloader as they are so different from conventional firearms. Thank you for what you do!!!
No local ranges or hunting clubs? Old timers who hunt the muzzleloader season are a great resource for that. My stepdad showed me when he gave me my first muzzleloader, CVA Staghorn, I shot it until I ruined the barrel and someone else gave it a new life. I bought a CVA Wolf and what a little rifle that is. I shoot it a lot, I’ve stopped using Pyrodex thanks to it rusting the breech plug solid in the old Staghorn and moved on to Black Powder which is FAR less corrosive/hygroscopic than Pyrodex, less expensive and what a pleasant experience it is shooting Black Powder. I still have a couple bottles of RS (FFg equivalent) and a bottle of P (the FFFg equivalent) maybe I’ll give them to my stepdad since he still uses that stuff.
Try looking for mountain man rendezvous or colonial
re-enactment events. Those folks are always happy to help you. But beware you’ll end up wanting a ‘real’ muzzleloader.
@@308dad8 I’ll take it if he doesn’t want it!!!
I'm fairly new to muzzleloading and guys, this video may be the single most important one I've seen yet! Thank you for sharing this very important topic!!
I've been shooting muzzle loaders for almost 40 years and have to say this is a very good instructional video. Great job guys.
It sure is. These videos are going to save lives
Great video. I first started using black powder in the late 1970s in Utah. A company, The Great Salt Lake Trading Company, always made sure that new shooters were properly instructed in how to use black powder weapons.
Smokeless does not burn faster than black powder. The exact opposite is true. It is the fact that smokeless burns slower that allows it to build up more pressure. There are plenty of videos here on YT that demonstrate the burn rates of smokeless vs. black. Otherwise, I did enjoy the video.
As much as I hate seeing perfectly good rifles destroyed. I was shocked by the devastation of the first explosion. No doubt in my mind that would have been fatal...
Always knew not to use smokeless powder in a muzzleloader, knew why, but this is the first time I've seen the results. Wow!
There are other videos out there addressing the same subject. This test seems it was rigged or the CVA isn't a very strong rifle. All the other videos I've seen on this subject proved you shouldn't use smokeless powder but none of the rifles exploded like this one did.
@@russellkeeling4387the cva is a fine rifle and perfectly strong, they obviously put way to much power inside it and likely clogged the barrel.
Thank you for this video. I preach safety with muzzleloaders and I can not believe the number of people who claim a ball seated partly down the barrel will not damage the gun! Break the safety rules and you might get lucky, or you might get severely injured! Or worse, injure a bystander!
Muzzleloaders are very safe - if you are!
Next time lmk u can use my old cva wolf and ill take one of the brand new ones your blowing up
I wish CVA would make the Hunterbolt Magnum one more time. I got the combo 45 and 50 caliber barrels. Absolutely great shooters.
Great video very informative my father was a muzzleloading instructor in New Jersey so I take this stuff for granted but a great deal of the hunting public may not know it so great job.
The Savage 10 ML muzzleloader uses smokeless powder. However, you do have to use the right kind and amount of smokeless powder.
Blackhorn 209 is a hybrid powder made up of nitrocellulose (smokeless powder) and Guanidine Nitrate.
The most dangerous part of any muzzleloader problem is found between the shooter's ears.
Very informative video. Thanks for keeping us safe. I always place a piece of electrical tape over the barrel of my standard rifles to keep out any debris - the gases blow it off before the bullet exits the barrel. On a CVA muzzleloader, would this practice be unsafe or have an effect on accuracy?
Placing electrical tape over the muzzle to keep out rain is a common practice and is safe. Since the tape is outside the bore of the barrel, it will not cause an obstruction.
WOW. Thank You for showing this video. I've shot so much through out my career in the Military all the way to M2 & M60. This is eye opening. Glad we already have the ammo already linked for us.
Sounds scary
Always load your own bullets and barrels
I've seen other tests like this done and I have to say the traditional muzzle loaders did not explode like this CVA did. The traditional took a lot more pressure to cause damage to the rifle. What is the substance looking like granulations flying all around in this video? Was the barrel packed with something to help it rupture?
Thanks for sharing - you saved many lives
Yall made it clear for the newbies!!!
But feeling the whole barrel with gunpowder was too much lol
It didn't ignite. Probably 150 grains ignited. Maybe much less. It only takes around 40 grains to fubar a muzzleloader at a spectacular level, and most likely take the person out with the rifle. Lets put it this way, any smokeless powder charge a person would load up the same as black powder and shoot, is going to wreck the rifle and send the person to either a hospital, or the morgue.
Thank you for this video, this year will be my first with a muzzleloader and I don't think I would have known to not use smokeless
Well you are in need of a very basic education at the least .
Me too. I just bought my first one last week. Can't wait to actually shoot it, but I'm taking my time to watch safety videos first!!
@@TheChrislewis1989 just take your time and read a lot of articles and watch the videos! Muzzleloader hunting is fun and safe when done correctly!
All you have to do is read the manual!!! If you dont have a manual get one.
Great informative video...I just bought my first muzzleloader, it's a CVA and I'm excited to use it for the first time this November 5th opening day here in Nashville TN. I could not believe how they blew up like that, makes me a little nervous. Thank you for opening my eyes, I'll do my best not to make those mistakes.
I have used firearms all my life and love the range. I just got my first muzzleloader cab wolf. Like you now I'm a little leery lol. I will be sure to use the right components for sure!
These are way overloaded and rigged for devastating effects.
I have had bad experiences with cva and would not buy one again. Specifically some of the lands have a greasy jb weld like substance that won’t come clean after a bag of patches and a bunch of products purchased to clean the manufacturing oil that was dried in my Rifling. I hope that’s not an issue when I go to fire it! I was very disappointed and that nothing like anything I’ve ever seen from a firearms manufacturer!
In either case that being said thank you for this video as it is a safety video.
Awesome video by CVA, showing how much proper safety and not confusing the 2 types of powders is. Thanks to them for destroying 3 fine BP rifles for us to see this. I am buying my first CVA center fire break open pistols and love that they did this. Barrel obstructions are no joke, on centerfires as well.
These videos are "Life Savers" i don't have a muzzle loader gun but this type of thing could happen to any gun loaded with the wrong ammo, Thanks for the Video guy's
Dang! I didn't think a bit of mud would do such a thing. Is there historical evidence of such accidents happening to soldiers or hunters of old?
Thank you very much for such a detailed video! :)
Thanks for the safety video. I still use my CVA Bobcat. Have been for close to 30 years now. I love the carbine style smoker. It works perfectly in the thick woods here. Most of your shooting is going to be in the 30 to 60 yard range here. I am thinking about getting a new CVA smoker. Have been looking at them for awhile . Season starts in Florida soon. Thanks again for the video
just looked up the bobcat in black.. sharp rifle.
I have really enjoyed it. Thanks
just picked up the wolf.. aside from the stock and trigger group, not a bad little starter. I guess ive started smoking. ive only cleaned it a couple times, and run a dozen primers through it so far (the Remington 209 shotshell, are very dirty, but work well in it.)
+Aaron Kidd My hunting partner has the Wolf. He really likes it. He is always trying different kind of powders for it. He just plain loves to shoot it.
i have some pelletized substitute, but went back for round ball and ffg but ended up forgetting shooting patches, information is a little scarce.. how do you shoot your round ball?
After seeing this video, I am astonished at the magnitude of damage to the shooter and the rifle. I once shot the metal ramrod from my CVA WOLF and the rifle took the shot without damage, fortunately for me. I am much more cautious since!
Just now seeing this.
Thanks for posting this.
It's something everyone that's going to use a muzzleloader should watch
at least once
Thank you for the educational program for things not to do with your muzzleloader
Excellent video as I am new to muzzleloaders and brought my first one today. (CVA Optima V-2 pistol)
This makes me cry watching youns blow these nice rifles like these up. CVA has been a long standing brand of muzzle loader in my household. I wouldn’t sell my Hunterbolt magnum at all. Unless it was life or death situation. Great shooting rifles. Thank you for making the best rifles out there in my opinion.
Watch barret blow up on kentucky balistics
How many grains of smokeless powder did you use?
Here in the U.K watching those guns being destroyed makes us shooters cry, firearms are expenses here and obtaining one is very heavily vetted
Poor rifles they’re gone now. Great video be safe and GOD BLESS.
It's alright, the modern inline muzzleloaders are junk compared to the traditional ones.
not that id ever use anything other than blackpowder, but i had no idea smokeless powder would be that destructive. very good to know
Im happy to see you got a good deal on that " smokeless powder "
A Very Good Lesson! Thank You! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Glad you enjoyed it!
What about the smokeless powder muzzleloader from savage? seems like the logical choice in the progression of black powder guns?
Stopped selling it back in 2012. it's a rare gun now. Would be nice if someone released it. It had it's own problems as well. Original owners manual called measuring by volume, when smokeless should have been measured by weight. They also recommended some bad powders and excessive loads, people were loading it just wrong, ie with projectiles and sabots taht should not have been used, or powders that were too fast burning. People are freaking stupid and do dumb shit thinkin they know better than the manufacturer...
Munky332 then they blame the manufacturer when it was the operator that did something wrong so they can get a big wad of cash money
They blew up too and would blow up under the same conditions in this video !
@@Munky332 All powder should be measured by weight. It just so happens that volumetric measures for BP are very close if using real BP, when you switch to substitutes that changes. Pyrodex is only 80% the weight of BP but is supposed to produce the same power. Savage did not screw up with the volumetric measures. They included a volumetric measure with the model 10ml that was correct for the powder listed but smokeless powder is way more sensitive to variances that BP. For instance lets say you use 60 grains of BP by weight and you have make a volumetric measure I use an old .45-70 case and cut it down to hold that 60 grains of powder by weight. If you go a little over or a little under you'll be fine. One could say you could even double the charge as a lot of today's inline muzzleloaders are rated up to 150 grains or more. Now lets say you have a measure you made to hold whatever the recommended charge of smokeless powder is for a savage 10ml I can';t recall exactly how much the powder charge was or what powder but I know it was a fairly small by rifle standards charge. Something like 20 grains of IMR 2400 or so? So about like a medium .44 magnum load. So lets say you take that powder dipper and fill it flush with 2400. You could really be at anywhere from abou 18-22 graiins of powder depending on how good you are with the dipper. That wouldn't matter with BP but with smokeless a 1 grain overcharge can blow up a gun in some cases. With certain powders a light charge can blow up the gun as well because the powder acts strange and explodes rather than burning acting much like BP. The fact is savage never meant for you tu use volume measures. They meant for you to use a proper scale they gave you volumetric cups to get you close. Just like how LEE makes that dipper set and includes the dippers with their dies and loal all kit. You can't go by the chart with that because your eye can't see the difference in a grain of powder, you whould always measure powder by weight regardless of whether it is blackpowder or smokeless. The only time it is ok to use a volumetric measure is if you are using real BP or BP substiture that is the same weight/volume as BP or produces the same energy as an equivalent volume of BP. Then and only then can you use a volumetric measure. BP substitutes like triple 7 are more powerful than BP so 70 grains of Triple 7 by volume is about 30% more powerful than 70 grains of real BP. so you need to reduce your load. Is it enough to blow a gun up? No probably not, most guns have a safety margin built in. Especially modern muzzleloaders as they mostly built in Europe and are required to be proof fired at higher than standard pressure. The U.S. has no proof laws or proof houses and is the only country without them. Some U.S. manufacxturers have their own proof standards and proof loads but they are not required to. There is no law in the U.S. stating that any firearm has to stand up to x ammnuniton loading. Or that any ammunition manufactuerer has to make ammnunition to x specs. There are SAAMI specs but those are not legally binding that is why you can't shoot hornady lever evolution .45-70 in a trapdoor springfield, it is also why Underwood and Buffalo Bore keep blowing up peoples guns. That particular ammo is far too hot for certain designs and you need to do your own research to know what you can and cannot shoot in your particular gun.
Demolition ranch did a cool video on barrel obstructions…. Results were mind blowing
It’s funny, on my cva Wolf, on the barrel it says black powder only, yet in the owner manual it recommends white hots
You mean pyrodex🤦😂.
800 grains will do that with any powder
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Fantastic content. You are gentlemen and scholars.
ATF called. They’d like to talk to you about that illegal pipe bomb you made 😆 hope you don’t have a dog
Black powder burns faster than almost any smokeless powder. Peak chamber pressure is generated very quickly with black powder but that pressure is substantially lower than the pressures generated by modern progressive smokeless powders. In any case, the demo is valid. NEVER use a modern smokeless powder in a muzzleloader. The exception may be a modern BP substitute. Always check with your manufacturer to confirm safe use.
After Watching this for the first time all i can say is WOW
How many grains of powder did you use?
Holy crap, I mean I knew using smokeless in a black powder rifle is extremely dangerous, but to see the effects on the ballistics gel, part of the barrel going all the way through and the piece of the stock going into the head.... That's some scary stuff.
SgtAwesome97 it is because they poured like 80 grams of powder that’s double the amount you are supposed to have
The purpose of the exercise was to show that smokeless and black powder are not interchangeable. I'm sure they probably used something like 100 grains which would be a common load in a muzzleloader. If you're using smokeless in a muzzleloader, you're no doubt using a lot less. But it's still a practice that I would not want to see anyone use. I don't understand why you would be advocating such a reckless and pointless practice.
By the way, I think you meant "grains", not "grams". There is a huge difference. There about 453 grams in a pound, but 7,000 grains in a pound. 80 grams of powder would be 15 TIMES as much as 80 grains.
This video just convinced me to get rid of my muzzle loader
Excelente video y con muy buena calidad de imagen de video y audio Dios les bendiga
I personally haven’t tried using smokeless powder and don’t want to I prefer black powder..i like seeing that smoke cloud anyway
So why not make the barrels out of a stronger steel to avoid these situations?
Great demonstration!
I blame the gun manufacturers for selling an unsafe product. I know it's not meant for smokeless powder, but those rifles often cost more than a modern rifle that can handle smokeless powder. Why use subpar metal and charge more?
you would think there would be a failure point engineered into a modern muzzleloader to minimize the damage from something like this
Don't get it tho, I've seen literal welded rods in the end of guns and the pressure just broke the weld off and fired the round.
Is this because of the worse metallurgy in place powder guns or am I missing something?
Mr. McGarity -- thanks for producing videos like this. I teach hunter education courses, and while we talk about the nasty effects of getting it wrong, videos drive the lesson home in a much more effective and memorable way. I figure if they're still talking about it after the class, that's a good thing.
In our classes we use modern firearms that are non-firing, rendered that way at the Mossberg factory. They don't have anything in the muzzleloader category. Do you (or anyone else you know) produce a non-firing muzzleloader for training purposes? I have a brand new CVA Wolf that I bought for use in the class. It has never been fired so there's no chance of it showing up for class loaded, but the legal protections are more robust if the firearms aren't capable of firing. I suppose I could drill out the breech plug to prevent anyone from mounting a primer... I've also seen people cut away a large section of the top of the barrel at the breech end so you can see inside and the rifle is then incapable of holding a charge, but I would hate to do something that permanent to a rifle I purchased personally. Other recommendations are welcome.
It’d be very easy to simply remove the firing pin
Mr.McGarity, I was interested in the wolf ""compact edition" but I tried to order it was told you had to buy the compact stock and swap it out to get the compact edition that the ads claim it's available in??
Unfortunately you would have to do that. The compact version was discontinued this year due to lack of sales. It was available until 2016.
So how do you get the deer to hold the rifle?
Great Video on what not to do!! These Powder Manufactures and gun manufacture are making it difficult to know what's right and wrong, just use common sense and read your Gun's owners manual. People tell others, yeah, I use this and have to have a special Primer , just stick to the Manufactures recommendation.
Sir I have one question for you
That we can use matchstick powder instead of black powder in a muzzleloader ?
Plz sir reply my question
You did not demonstrate a over charge I know black powder usually just spits out the extra powder but I wanna see it in your guns. I'm still hooked on traditional muzzle loaders.... till you get me hooked on these.
Great video demonstration
i wish i had that many cva muzzle loaders :P
Maybe it’s just me . But there’s nothing traditional about a modern inline muzzle loader and it seems to take the spirit of the season feel unauthentic
Thanks, great information
Thank You for the Video, may Sell all my CVA Muzzle Loaders Now!
Holy shit thanks for the show
Randy wakeman seems to have a grudge against anything cva made in Spain. I've used both cva and traditions bp rifles made in Spain for years. Never had a problem. Most issues with guns blowing up wrr shooter error or obstructed barrels
Modern smokeless powders for rifle powder don't burn faster they have a slower burn rate. Pistol and shotgun powders are fast burning. Black powder is fast burning.
This video is very valuable. But in all honestly it made me uncomfortable in firing my inline now. I have a 209 that was given to me which I've never shot to date. I've been looking for a great opportunity to do so but haven't gotten the chance yet. The rifle looks in good condition aside from its front sight which I don't mind cause it has a Nikon mounted on it anyways. But after watching this, I'm scared of firing it. Obviously I'll be using T7 or WH's. The same with hangfires on revolvers. I know that those are rare but the thought of a hangfire happening and mistakenly cocking the hammer and the round going off just "concerns" me for lack of a better word.
I hope you eventually took it out. It's a lot of fun to shoot muzzleloaders! I own three, and have one in the mail. 😄
I just watched a kid called idk_fred load a cva wolf with a ball and thank god he used real black powder..he had absolutly no clue what he was doing..he didnt read the instructions for the gun..just opened up package and winged it...hes lucky to be alive.
Good thing that gel man was wearing safety glasses!
You didn't say how many grains of smokless Powder you used? I heard some black powder shooters used 10% smokless powder mixed with black powder..
Would have liked to see small amounts of smokeless powder combined with black powder.
So what do y’all do with the receiver after the test and it is not damaged
Accidentally left my ramrod in one time getting excited shooting at a big buck...I had to get a new ramrod still missed the buck though
awesome informational video
Truely a great video
It looks like you loaded the barrel completely with powder
Hey man!!! Someone in Africa could’ve eaten those guns!
Use a balloon of balloon like mussel cover to protect the open end. However, any time the gun is dropped, clean it all out.
So obv the pucks tou buy like white hots are black powder and no modern smokeless powder?
you didn't say how much smokeless powder was used and which powder was used. Was a black powder magnum load of 150 gr of a smokeless powder charge used or did you test a 45-70 smokeless powder load of much lesser grain weight?
Related to modern guns, what's the difference between the metals used to produce black powder barrels and smokeless barrels ? Or is the issue the thickness of the finished barrels ?
Basically the breech.
In my cva 150 grain is a magnum load. Overkill for a deer. I had 100 grains go straight through. I believe 1 pyrodex would be sufficient within 75 yards.
Excellent.
Ok. Now what happens when you load it with a reasonable load like 50-60gn of a slow rifle powder like h4831 or one of the 4350’s?
Nice job!
I’ve seen comments where people intentionally use a smaller amount of smokeless powder. Why, would you do that with powder pellets available etc. me I’m following directions.
Any notion you might have of using or creating a personal mix including smokeless powder disappears real quick after seeing those results. Massive nope.
Looks like a great way to copy KB's RN-50 mishap where his barrel plug was ejected and ended up in his neck. He narrowly survived it.
That first video is absolutely terrifying bc its so easy to do
When the safety glasses explode, you're going to have a bad time
Good video thanks.
I've got an "old" Kodiak. 45. I've sent 100's of rounds through. I keep a co2 "ejector" in my bag. Blow the barrel out after every shot. I've even used it to clear loads of I get distracted. (.45 cal 150 grain pellets. I've taken 75+ hogs wit it over the years. Its getting buried with me when I die)
I would pass it on... but my brother 8s the only other on in the family that hunts. He thinks Black powder guns are a "joke and not accurate ".
Overload on purpose, I've seen others who did this and it didn't happen like this.
iraqveteran8888 filled the entire barrel and it didnt do this much damage. makes me a little sus..
My neighbor came over one day and showed me a cap and ball revolver then he said the craziest thing I had heard in a long time he said I will tell you a secret you can use smokeless powder in these, I warned him told him I been shooting black powder since 1972 and he could seriously hurt himself and destroy his gun but he laughed and said I didn't know what I was talking about. He has since moved but I can't help but wonder if that foolish man has done it.
very informative thank you for teaching safety in the first degree ;)
Wow awesome safety first video, I'd hate to be the ballistic gel dummy.
My information two people is that some of this is bullcrap because I use loose powder peridex have been doing it for 30 year and I guess any muzzleloader will blow up if you put enough powder in it but I put 90 grain to 100 rain in mind and never have had any issue I think they're just trying to sell the the other powder
The USA and a few allies put high explosives in mortar and other small arms ammo they dropped into ISIS territory during the war. They say about every 2000 rounds they dropped had a hot round within. That round basically did what you are seeing here to the Daesh, but to AK's and other very modern weapons. Many a terrorist had their trusty rifle kill or horrifically maim them, due to one of these too hot to shoot and survive rounds. It really illustrates the danger of using the wrong powder.