Netflix Zuko isn't a Villain, and That's a Problem
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2024
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Zuko might be the character that Netflix got the most right, but they still got a lot wrong. Here's why.
#avatarthelastairbender
#atla - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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What did you think of Netflix Zuko?
He wasn’t as good as the original Zuko but he was better than Zuko from the 2010 movie
I think Zuko suffers from the writers’ obsession with not letting any of the characters make mistakes or have flaws. It’s no longer a story about a bunch of imperfect people trying to stop a war and grow up and become heroes. It’s just a bunch of bland and good characters wandering around with nothing in between that makes them grow as people.
While seeing your wiseness on your videos, its reassuring to hear you use ground news, as you dont talk about politics in your channel its good to know that you know where you stand unbiased😅
Agreed! Zuko needs to have a redemption arc. So he needs something to be redeemed from.
If he turns on iroh like he's supposed to he will need redemption from that.
We also don't get to go on the phenomenal ride of discovering Zuko's character bit by bit!
Original series Zuko always had that problem. Its not until end of book 2 that he really makes his first actual mistake. Before then he's just a kid who trusts in the culture and government of his nation that's not something you can judge him on.
Zuko is a rival not a villain and leaves the antagonist role on an episode by episode basis with the mask and stuff..
They jumped to his redemption too fast. They knew we know about and love his redemption arc, so they just skipped his angry teen phase. I was so sad.
They knew what we loved about his story, but not why we loved his story.
Thank you so much. I’m tired of people saying that this Zuko is like cartoon Zuko. He’s not angry, not villainous enough. He talks to much especially in the blue spirit scene with Aang. He is not like my boy and his redemption will definitely suffer because of it
They've already seen his arc and he's already their favorite so it's easy to like how he is portrayed in the live action. You're right though, it weakens the show as a whole and this Zuko isn't comparable to the original. They're also weakening other characters to prop him up. Azula being jealous, Uncle justifying his bratty behavior.
I mean out of everyone, Zuko was definitely the closest to his counterpart and was the least butchered out of everyone.
But that is not saying much in a series where the writers failed every character. It’s just a competition of who got ruined more than another.
He’s like VERY Angry
@@marcust-kq4cvactually his uncle is not justifying anyone for any behavior. He simply is standing up for his nephew out of the goodness he sees in him and is standing up for him especially to his brother who abused his own son so cruelly to the point of subtly trying to say, “He is your son, shame on you for what you are doing to him.”.
Oh it will not be that bad.
I don’t think his acting is bad, his scar bothers me but also just the writing. God he could’ve shined in a good live action
I feel like the entire cast could've shone with a better direction of the show and a better script. I saw a bunch of actor interviews and they seemed all so much more like their characters, than in the movies.
They really should have blocked out his left eyebrow and made the scar bigger/messier. Especially with how Ozai burns him in THIS version, up close and deliberately, not just blasting him from like 2 meters away.
Then watch the 2010 movie.
@@akechijubeimitsuhide in the show it was also precise
The scar is sooo bad. Zuko in the original only had 1 working eye.
Idk man. I think ATLA is a show that maybe shouldn’t be brought to live action.
Well, I know. I really wish people would stop porting fantasy to LA. Unless you have Lord of The Rings Level of dedication and Budget, it'll just be worse than Animation. Sometimes even then.
Facts!
@@andrellnogueira It's not necessarily a budget restriction. The Last Airbender is quite stylized, in a way that would be wrong in live action. Think of the scene in the Hobbit where Legolas runs up the collapsing rocks. It looks completely ridiculous. Yet the exact same scene wouldn't be bad in animation because animation is stylized while live action is supposed to be "realistic", but we are able to look past it with animation.
I think The Last Airbender as a concept is too stylized for live action, while something like LOTR is not. So it's not necessarily that fantasy is being ported to live action, but just that most animated shows/movies have a style embedded into the story and characters that cannot be reliably translated to live action without it looking wrong on some level.
Its not about that they could've made a great live action series but they choose not to on purpose like the creators left mid production for a reason it was obvious that its not going to be good if you dont respect the creators opinions its natural for og fans to disslike the finished product
Personally, I was looking forward to the live-action because I thought it would be cool to see real martial artists and real epic landscapes, and I was curious to see how they'd do the animal hybrids, but after being deeply disappointed, twice, I'll just enjoy the cartoon and try to forget the LA attempts.
I feel like they also made him less hesitant to do bad stuff also which is weird? Like, in the first animated ep he doesn't firebend at Sokka, doesn't do more than disarm him actually, and i think its because he sees him as a non bender and sorta a medling civilian. He does use fire to scare people, but i think that was a bluff. He had a conscience, but it was subtler. In the live action, he orders his men to attack children. He goes to shoot fire at Sokka while he's down, no hesitation. In the animated show, he wouldn't even do that to Zao!
YESS
To make this issue even worse, they tone down his villainy while simultaneously making him much more hateable. In one episode where he fights Katara he incapacitates her. She is down, out of his way, and he still goes over to kill her. OG Zuko would never have attacked an enemy when they’re already beaten, let alone for the kill. The cartoon took great pains to show us that there was good and honor in him, and that moment takes all that away.
I hate live action Zuko too, but the OG Zuko goes in for the kill or capture when Katara is down and holding a dead Aang in her arms in the season 2 finale.
@@ninaeliks1750 Was he going for the kill ? I rewatched the scene and all he did was walk towards her menacingly they probably were going to capture her
@@malikpierre-louis3343 yeah I don’t know, he could be going to capture her. Still, pretty brutal since they had a moment a couple of minutes ago and she just watched her best friend die
Seriously wtf was that about.
Great video! I MUST add my biggest pet peeve of Zuko’s portrayal. They didn’t bother to age Zuko down for his childhood trauma. Lu Ten’s death is the inciting incident for Ursa’s banishment. Ozai tries to convince his father to revoke Iroh’s birthright after Lu Ten dies and as punishment, Zuko’s life is put on the line and Ursa saves for the price of banishment. That means Zuko should look like a child at Lu Ten’s funeral or younger than “3 years of banishment”
YES EXACTLY THANK YOU
i hadnt even noticed but now that you mention it, yeah. zuko looks like he couldnt have been older than nine or ten in the flashback where ursa got the letter about lu tens death. the way netflix set it up makes it seem like his death happened like 2 years ago.
The reason Zuko’s arc is considered to be one of the best in all of fiction is because we didn’t know at the beginning he would be redeemed. He was a massive jackass in the first season and fully willing to go to do terrible and reckless things in order to get Aang. One of which was burning down a village. And the reason it worked was because you understood why Zuko was doing what he was doing. Even though Zuko was a villain in season 1, you also knew he was a victim in massive denial of his mental and physical abuse from his father.
The POINT of the character is him coming to terms with the fact that it doesn’t matter if he has his Dad’s approval. He had his honor the entire time and it took a long road of struggles and discovery and mistakes for him to find a family that accepted him and supported him when his own father didn’t.
And all of that is completely removed in Netflix’s Zuko. While Dallas Liu is carrying that travesty on his back with his performance, Zuko’s lack of ruthlessness and inability to see anything beyond getting Aang hurts the character. He feels more like season 2 Zuko rather than season 1.
Makes you wonder how they'll portray his heel-turn/regression in the finale for Season Two.
If they even do that scene at all.
@@patrickcarter2829they will have him redeem himself just a little earlier, which itself is not so bad.
It is not completely removed and he was hardly a villain in the original animated tv show either, and his jerky behavior, if it could be called that at all, was hardly much too, considering how mislead he was throughout his life at such points. It is clear from the moment he genuinely wants to please his father and wants his father’s love, it is just a question of what it would take to get him to see his father was not worthy of his devotion, love, admiration or sacrifice, and this just may take some quicker ways for him to realize this which itself is not all that bad.
@@benjamintracey6685he was a villain because he opposed the heroes, team avatar, and hurt people. It doesn't matter if he was "misguided" or whatever, he was, by definition, a villain and a bad person
@@patrickcarter2829he definitely has to return to the fire nation one way or another, otherwise they're gonna have to completely rewrite season 3, but I can see them pulling something like Azula threatening to kill Iroh so that Zuko is forced to join her instead of it being his own choice
This video deserves more views. Finally someone has explained why I can't get behind Netflix Zuko. Everyone keeps saying he's the only one well-written, and he is good compared to the other characters, but there's still a lot missing
I mean the video just came out lol. But thank you.
Thank you so much for pointing out how dumb it is that the 41st Division is serving under Zuko! The harshest critiques I've heard of the show still praise that change, and it drives me crazy for all the reasons you said. I always loved that we don't find out what happened to those soldiers, if Ozai even would have agreed with the general's plan or not. What we do know is that Zuko standing up to his father would not have changed Ozai's mind. It wasn't actually a noble sacrifice -- it was foolish and rash, which are some of Zuko's key character flaws. But it was also empathetic and came from an earnest place of love for his country, which are the strengths that enable him to have his redemption arc.
I love how you put it! His actions wasn't a noble sacrifice/bravery, but foolish because that just goes to show how far he comes when he finally ACTUALLY stands up to his father during Sozin's Comet. THAT was Zuko being noble and brave, finally not being afraid of his father anymore.
Exactly!!
Also the outburst itself - in the LA he hesitates before speaking up, and starts giving his objection nervously as if knowing that’s going to get him in trouble. OG Zuko didn’t act like that at all, he confidently and idealistically stood up and spoke, hinting he was NOT thinking about potentially getting himself into trouble during that objection. That really showed us it WAS naive and impulsive outburst (from a place of love + earnestness), not a conscious decision with consideration of the personal risks, which as Ayesha said makes it more impactful when it IS a conscious decision in book 3. It also makes it more tragic to me? He had NO idea something like this would happen, as opposed to LA Zuko who seems to know there’d be at least SOME consequences.
I actually agree with you on their handling of the 41st. It just didn’t feel right especially since at least for me, Zuko’s plot in The Storm originally is probably one of my favorite parts of Book 1. In this, he doesn’t have to do any real work to gain his crews respect because them being the 41st immediately means they have to respect their savior.
I miss when shows gave us flawed characters, so we could see a satisfying or at least interesting road to redemption
It’s so refreshing to see other people not praising that change just because of how it made them feel
Why was the 41st saved/spared? I don't see why Ozai would change his mind because Zuko disagrees with a plan. And as immoral as it is, it's a strategic plan. Ozai does other immoral things, animated Ozai was willing to burn half the earth down to squash any earth kingdom resistance and LA Ozai at the very least permanently scarred his son with no other intention than doing just that. I initially thought they were the survivors of the plan, send away to not harm morale or something.
Not saying everything has to make sense, but in the LA not a lot make sense to begin with...
I'm so happy to find more people with this opinion. When Zuko spoke out in the meeting, he didn't care about this unit in particular. There's nothing about the 41st for him that's special. Nothing. He doesn't know them. But he has enough honour to know that sacrificing loyal troops is wrong, unlike everyone else in that room. Sure, the 41st got to sail off safely with him, but that just means another unit got sent to their death because what Zuko ended up sacrificing was ultimately pointless for any other reason than his own character development. That's what fighting against his father ultimately means. Lots of people could have taught Aang fire bending. Zuko chosing to join Aang is HIS choice. It's about doing the right things because they're right, even if you can't know what the result will be.
Netflix makes Zuko less angry and les zealot, which unfortunately waters down and dilutes the Zuko Alone arc and eventually his conversion in the Zuko Here episode.
Basically everyone got watered down big time. It's a shame.
This is not so bad and they may find a way through the upcoming two seasons as well.
My thoughts in regards to the 41st division becoming his crew is that, if he got *the remains* of the 41st after the suicide charge they were sent on, this could have been a point of growth for zuko to maybe push him to think about whether he actually wants to rejoin the fire nation, and become apart of its hierarchy again. You could have had the fire lord not telling zuko, but after zuko is banished telling the same room of generals what to do with the now likely angry and shattered 41st division. Mixing them in with the rest of your troops could cause loyalty and morale issues, if they tell everyone they meet about their doomed suicide charge. So we will dump an army unit on the ship we send zuko on. Zuko could comment at some point about how incompetent, or incapable his crew is as a throwaway line by an angsty antagonist, and at some point in the season have him overhear his crew talking about their past in the fire nation military. He ignores it at first, but the fact that his own nation threw away the lives of the people who he now leads would weigh on him. It could be an easy way to spark his thoughts of deserting his pursuit of the avatar.
wow, that's pretty fucking dark
That would have been so much better
@@aekiyria_ hi skateboard from phighting!!!
I love this idea!!
Zuko's character goes with his scar really well. His scar, anger, and past were big important parts of his character. His scar represents his anger, his father's abuse, his morals, and his search for honor. He was scarred because of what his father considered weakness, and it serves as a constant reminder for Zuko for why he feels like he needs to be remorseless and powerful even though it conflicts with his inner character. He blames himself for this disfigurement and it fuels his rage until he learns to accept himself and his past when he realizes that it was wrong for his father to scar him. After that his scar reminds him of the cruelty of his father and the fire nation. His scar is a constant reminder of both his ugly and messy past, and what his own anger can do if used for wrong. He has to learn to live with it and the pain it causes him.
Netflix Zuko's past and personallity are also like his scar. They're definitely there, and there was probably a good amount of effort put in to them, but instead of ugly, obvious, and meaningful, they're just a reddish smudge. A small detail to be overlooked. The creators were too scared to display Zuko and his scar in it's horrific, ugly, and painful glory. They wanted something easy and marketable, not compex and important. They probably wouldn't have added either if it wasn't for the outrage it would've caused.
I just want to know what they plan to do the white lotus since paku, bumi and iroh dont seem like theyre apart of it
Right!!! Bumi is such a jerk that he can’t be part of a white lotus we actually respect. Plus he tried to ship Iroh off to a work camp…
Bumi sends Iroh off to a death/work camp lol. Like wtf was happening there.
When the creators said they were going to add more Fire Nation in Season 1, I protested it as a mistake because I knew this would be the side effect. (Zuko, within the context of his family, should not be over explained before the story establishes him as a villain).
This is a case of the writers being overzealous with a character, because they already know where he ends up, and are too eager to get there. To be sure, this is in fact the problem with all the characters (Sokka is already mature and engineering, Aang is already laser focused instead of procrastinating, Katara's skill level goes from 0 to 60 without the work, you can tell Suki is already Sokka's endgame romance, Zhao is the obvious main villain right off the bat, Azula's insecurities are already highlighted, and even the tragedy of Iroh's son, is way too early a reveal) and its why the show feels less gratifying. It has no intrigue. Netflix Avatar is the first adaptation I've ever seen where the creators lacked the tact to have *patience* in telling their story.
Agreed. While Zhao was obviously the villain in season 1 and the live action did little to change my opinion on him. However the live action took all the characters major flaws or weaknesses. Which ruin all the entire story of Avatar which character growing through the people around them and their environment.
Zuko was full of anger, desire for fatherly love, kind of dismissive of other people, and having an inferiority complex. In season 1 he was so focus on finding Aang and his flaws are what drove him to chase him with so much zealotry. Yet in moments during his duel with Zhao where he could have killed him to gain an advantage in the race to get Aang, saving Iroh after he was late, the blue mask and giving up the chase during the storm. These moments sprinkle throughout season 1 gave us glimpses of the true Zuko underneath all his flaws which made us root for his redemption. When he burned down Suki's home.
Sokka's flaws make sense since his mother was killed and father left when he was young. So he when came to face to face with Suki someone who went against his worldviews he had to be humbled before learning to grow. While Sokka's engineering skills doesn't make sense (the talent does) but given the South Pole being a frozen wasteland he shouldn't have any practical knowledge or skills in engineering. So his short mentorship with the Mad Scientist wasn't has honest as it was in the animated version.
Katara was always talented and I have no doubt if there was at least one other water bender or a scroll in the South Pole she would have become a master before the show begin. Plus it destroys the subplot with her being jealous of Aang which made steal the water bender scroll. Which was a great showing that despite Katara being the most responsible one in the Gaang can still make rash decisions and put the group in danger.
Aang, honestly I quite like how they made him a bit more serious. While I understand that Aang was a twelve year old his childish personality makes sense. But finding out your entire country(?) was destroyed and you have to stop the war before or during the end of summer he should have been in a bit more of an hurry. Though his journey in the animated show was great.
I liked the addition of the 41st but not quite how they were given to Zuko. I thought it built Zuko's character as someone who acts for what he believes in not what could benefit him as even when his crew started being insubordinate, he never pulled the "you owe me your lives" card. However, one could say it ruins Iroh because he is the one who did pull it. There are myriad better ways they could have ended up as Zuko's crew, him demanding them when Ozai says he can get whatever crew he wants, the remnants after they launch the attack to limit dissention in the ranks, or like you said Ozai giving them up but saying he will always have more recruits.
Honestly after hearing that Zuko could take the 41st division as his crew, my first thought was he got an entire other division k!led because there’s no way they changed the plans 😭
Something else that they completely got wrong is that Netflix looked at all 3 seasons and the popularity of the character when adapting Zuko. Zuko is solely an antagonist in Book 1 and only the B plot focuses on him. In Book 2 he becomes a deuteragonist and in Book 3 he's one of the main characters alongside the team avatar. They focus on him way too much in the live action to the point where his story overshadows Katara's, it's absurd.
Zuko's WHOLE APPEAL is that we get to watch him go from whiny little fascist edgelord with daddy issues to the embodiment of a defector from the cause of evil to good and sexy guerilla fighter.
Edit: anyone arguing over my use of the term "fascist" is objectively wrong. Please pick up a book.
Jeez. Not every imperialist is fascist. Stop throwing the term towards anyone you don't like.
@@flavorgod "far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition"
The Fire-Nation by definition is both imperialist and fascist.
@@Zokondragon These Governments existed before Facism Existed, That is not the definition of Facism.
@@Zokondragon I think you're conflating the 2 terms. While there definetely is a lot of overlap, there's too many aspects of fascism that don't apply to the fire nation
He was never a facist.
I was confused why everyone was praising Zuko as I didn't care for his changes. I didn't like the fact that Zuko wasn't responsible for his own actions and that his father was the only one at fault. Yes he is a victim of his father but that doesn't change his actions. Didn't care for Admiral Zhao either in it. This is why I don't like live action remakes as this show was always better suited for animation
Why thoughts exactly. He was the best done of the main cast, but there are still significant issues.
Could not stand Zhao. I hated that character choice so much.
@@master_samwise a video on Zhao's portrayal would be awesome if you're up to it!! I wasn't a fan of the direction for his character in this at all. also was just an especially strange choice by netflix since they literally said they wanted to go for a more "mature" route with their adaptation lmao
Feels like you guys just wanted the same thing copy and pasted. I think zhao and zuko were done really well
I have to agree. Specifically for Zuko though, I have to take it further: In the original, a wall full of drawings and a diary weren't necessary to have the audience be aware of Zuko's burning rage and focus on Aang, nor of his desperate longing to return home and be redeemed. As you say, show, don't tell. The original didn't need to excessively explain these things to the audience as it was transported in the story and the personalities/attributes/behavior of the character(s). If you cut these things away and are not able or willing to show them nor trust your story nor the audience, it's then when you start explaining.
I remember when first watching the trailer, being surprised by how nicely they managed to have a cast quite well resembling team Avatar. Only to be irritated by Zuko's look on-screen. His face looked rounder, more child-like, than the original's defined features. Instead of older than the rest, he looks young, almost softer. Plus, they let him have that soft, almost innocent look in his eyes in the film. So agreed again, they apparently chose to depict Zuko as a half-child victim of circumstances, aiming at feeling pity for him, which is just unfair towards the character.
While of course he is a victim of his father, their choice robs him of the strength, persistence, and the journey of self-discovery and self-redemption that Zuko actually accomplishes.
Last, but not least, with these decisions concerning the characters, the studios took away great opportunities for the actors to truly _show_ their characters. I think they could have done that. They have the skills to show the characters as strong and as weak and as full of flaws, strengths, virtues and essence as they truly are.
So what is left of the characters and story seems overall but a sad and weak reflection of what they were in their original. They carry the outer attributes but not much more than hints at who they were and what they truly achieved.
Zuko not capturing Aang and then having knowhere to go means we will lose Irohs incredible speech at Lake Laogoi and that is a massive bummer.
that rlly made me wonder what the point of including zuko in the north pole was. in the original, it's like the peak of his desperation. bro snuck into the city, captured aang (after losing to katara / having to wait 'til sunrise) and apparently was gonna just walk thru a blizzard and take aang to the fire nation. as iroh said, he had no plan and if it weren't for aang's kindness, he would've died out there. piling on how much of a failure he feels like at the start of book 2.
in the live-action, zuko just sneaks into the city, loses to katara and then when aang goes kaiju mode, iroh pulls him away from the whole thing. it feels weightless, they even took away him tryna save zhao. if they felt like they didn't have time for all that, maybe for a similar effect of "zuko at his most desperate" they could've had zuko try to attack kaiju aang and get swatted aside, srsly injured.
sorry for the long reply lol but I feel like the live-action did miss a lot of the blinding rage zuko had and how it caused his failures
Once again, the fault is almost entirely on writing and directing. Man, it had the budget to make the live action a masterpiece. And yet...
Most budgets like those, especially ones that involve creating background environments that use 'volume' are under inflated cost given limited competition.
Thank you for talking about how Zuko mission being a shame makes no sense. The live action even changed what the world believes happened to the avatar too. In the original most people thought the avatar didn’t exist anymore but in the live action everyone apparently had full belief that he was somewhere so Zukos quest wasn’t impossible.
I always liked the fact the the fate of the 41st division was technically unknown, but implied that most if not all of them were killed despite Zukos effort to save them. I think thats part of why Zuko was so bitter, he tried to save people, failed to do so, and thought that it was his fault. Now that doesnt make his actions right, but it gives you a bit more in terms of why Zuko acts the way he does while also showing that despite how bad he is he has the potential to do better. Also the fact that we are left to ponder the nuances of Zukos character with the crew elevates it more.
This also doesnt get into the fact that Zuko has always been lonely. Which is part of why when Aang asks if they could have been friends is so impactful. Zuko has been thinking about it since he was asked. His lonlieness gets worse when you factor in the fact that he has been ostracized from his family, his crew as he's the youngest and none of the crew knows what he has been through, then the crew gets killed after he started connecting with them. Its also part of why he was so desperate to go home.
I agree with what you said about the 41st. I hadn’t thought about it but you’re right that it doesn’t really help his story, hurts it even
But Ozai’s decision does make sense when you consider that they’re banished too - and in the fire nation, banishment is essentially death, maybe even worse. By sending the 41st with him, Ozai was telling Zuko “nice going idiot! You can’t really save them, no matter what you do. Because of your actions trying to save them, they are now far worse off - banished instead of being ‘war heroes’”
ooo i hadn’t thought about it that way, that’s a really good point!
So Ozai behaved like a stubborn kid who does something stupid just to mess with someone. He needed the division, he planned to use them as a distraction. But oh well, doesn't matter I guess, I'll just waste my soldiers willy-nilly because "I need to show him!" Why would he even care about what Zuko feels? Why would he bother to play such a childish game with him?
You have perfectly captured why I hate the change about the crew owing their lives to Zuko. I felt it was completely unnecessary. I hate it as much as the fact that they made Zuko actually fight his father in the live action.
19:49, if Azula did that, it would be as part of an elaborate plan to trick them in some way
Lol!! So true. I would enjoy seeing that. I guess we kind of see zuko channeling her when he is practicing
It's funny, I actually didn't like the notebook because it works as a mission guide for Aang and friends so they don't learn anything organically nor they take decisions spontaneously
This is a good point
Zuko is bad at being evil. Zuko is an honorable genuinely nice kid who was abused and gaslit by Ozai. Zuko only had to earn the trust of the Gaang and fight his dad. The agni Kai was wrong since Zuko had to fight his dad
Why am I so bad at being bad 😂
I was pretty iffy about going into this show but I still at least wanted to give it a try.
Then I saw clips of Aangs "That's who I am line" and the 5 minute long Convo between him an Zuko at the end of the Blue Spirit, and any remaining interest was gone.
Zuko isn't a villain, Azula isn't intimidating, Aang isn't joyous, Sokka isn't funny, Kitara isn't ANYTHING. I genuinely think they forget she existed until the last episode. And Bumi?!!! Bumi and Iroh shows me the writers had ZERO respect or love for the original show.
I can sort of get the idea of the general mocking Zuko, in a sense. If he did force his way in like in the original, I could see that mocking making a little more sense. He wasn't supposed to be there and is objecting to the plans. Of course a general would be a bit annoyed and blow off a little, proverbial, steam.
As for the change of the division being Zuko's shipmates... it honestly makes less sense. Cause why would Zuko disrespect them if he wanted to make sure they were still alive earlier?
I've seen the idea thrown around that Zuko would resent his crew, since they were the reason he got banished. But that isn't really shown. He's kinda mean to Lt Muttonchops on like 3 occasions, and the man deserves it every time.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only who didn't care for this change in the midst of everything else praising it, like if anything it makes Zuko look like that much more of a dick? *Unnecessarily so...* that Zuko _himself_ knows his crew to be the grouping of rank-and-file soldiers he stood up for, and he *_still_* goes on to treat them like shit, speaking such that he seemingly shows disdain for his crewmen's safety in the face of their larger mission?! Like?!
Zuko was never a bad guy. He had done bad things because he wanted to be back with his family.
And get his honor back which is not something a total villain would care about that much.
Which is why Zuko doesn't have a 'redemption arc' he has a character arc with redemption moments.
Which is better than a redemption arc in some ways but makes the use of him as the poster boy of redemption arcs incorrect and misguided.
@@AC-dk4fp sounds like you decided of the bat true redemption is impossible, forced and corny and you want to discount the time they got it right "n-no, thats not REAL redemption!"
You must be a misanthrope.
on a video talking about all the positives of the show, I read a comment that pointed out that because how much of a good guy he's written in this version it would be out of character for him to betray his uncle in season 2. After watching your video it's also very apparent that because of how much of a good guy Zuko actually is now that anything out of a misunderstanding, the betrayal in Ba Sing Se is going to be contradictory to the character that they've built Zuko to be in the show.
I think Zuko was always had a kindness about him in the og show, but I agree they fumbled with how /obvious/ they made it in the live action. Zuko consistently made choices that showed that alluded to the soft boi that got stamped out by growing up with his father & azula but Zuko’s kindness was hidden behind his brash exterior and especially, specifically, his willingness to be violent to find and capture the avatar. He pushes people away and doesn’t outwardly show kindness because he’s been taught that it’s weakness. I don’t think they made Zuko too kind, especially to his own people, but they fail to show the little boy who learned the hard way to hide it.
why did Zuko have poster with a sketch of Aang? he was trapped in the ice for 100 years and nobody ever seen him
He drew that poster after Aang escaped from his ship
Would it matter? Zuko knows definitively that the Avatar who perished a century ago was a male air nomad. A profile of such a person would be a bald monk with an arrow tattoo.
In animation ATLA, zuko thought the avatar would be a 100+ year-old old man.
@@coffeemug3009 That would still be a bald male with arrow tattoos. His sketch reflected as much
@@arthropod-doctor if it's so obvious then why draw it? (I know it's just to let audience know zuko is after aang but it's so cringe)
Man, I feel like I could've written this video (emotionally, you described it much better than I've been trying to). I've been ranting on the internet and in real life about how Zuko and Dallas Liu's portrayal is the best character portrayal in the live action but also how it's far from perfect and particularly how they've watered down how single minded and rash he can be about capturing the avatar. And how they've already started trying to "redeem" him too early, while there's really not much to redeem. And how well Dallas Liu is doing with what he's been given honestly makes it more frustrating.
Couldn’t agree more! Have loved all your videos dissecting the Netflix writing - would actually love to see a video about Netflix aang. What they did with him was so bizarre
I thought i was the only one who thought the 41st division part didn't make a lot of sense
I hope the Netflix creators see this video
They were given trash scripts
I got a real sense the "writers" for nATLA were too excited to play their hand, re: Zuko's eventual redemption, so they just forewent building his character up from his original depiction in S1...which would be fine for this adaptation if he WEREN'T an antagonist? And if we, the majority of the audience, didn't already watch the original show and see a Better version of his character....I think nATLA wanted Zuko to be the protagonist of this version of the show but didn't realize you have to Also make him the protagonist of the STORY, which would require a complete deconstruction of ATLA as we've known it.
(Also I ABSOLUTELYYYY agree about disliking the 41st Division being made his crew, it does nothing to enhance Zuko's character while also making Ozai look LESS villainous? Truly I think the main issue with this show's writing of the Fire Nation is that they don't FEEL LIKE VILLAINS.)
Exactly. Just like MasterSamwise said in the video, Netflix zuko would work okay if we didn’t already have a better version they are departing from.
I've binged a bunch of your content in the past little while and I just wanted to say that I truly appreciate your viewpoints and eloquent thought about the topics that you are passionate about. It is a breath of fresh air and I hope that you continue to do so. Thanks.
I agree, they tried speeding up so many future seasons stuff like an excited Superman instead of professional writers either to make sure fans get excited enough for another season or just in case it gets cancelled enough of their vision was seen. I didn’t like some of the acting but the Zuko actor did great. I also didn’t like the cinematography or the exposition heavy dialogue or how they made the air and earth bending feel like magic with the fluid movement and lack of proper power scaling like water and fire bending. Azula needs to be much more calm and menacing. The face acting from the actress is great. also I can’t believe they had 6 years only for Aang to not learn waterbending in the season DEDICATED TO WATER BENDING meaning he will have to start learning it off screen 🙄.
Also Roku needs to stop being so jokey and Kyoshi needs to not be Aang’s main guide when she isn’t the most recent avatar before Aang. Also she needs to be less rude and more calm and logical. Also they should stop blaming Aang for a war he didn’t start or even run away from this interaction. they should not ruin toph as well PLEASE Netflix!. and they should improve the fabrics of the clothing and sets and stop making the world feel so small by only focusing on a few sets in a supposed huge place. I guess Covid made things harder and the volume although huge can only do so much. Now they can use more real locations making everything more dynamic. I love the VFX though. Also they should give momo and appa more screen time. They can’t just force us to feel a scene that the writers and actors aren’t committing to
Agree on all points
I loved your analysis! I had a lot of the same complaints about how they portrayed Zuko and I was severely irritated with how they portrayed the situation with his crew but I couldn't really pinpoint why and it makes so much sense now. Thanks for making the video!
You want a medal Netflix, the "Not as much of a failure as you could have been" award.
Your videos about Netflix Avatar are my favorite because I feel like they really get to the point and analyze the story from multiple angles. I've seen a lot of other youtubers praising Zuko's character in the adaption without bringing up how that takes away from one of the best redemption arcs ever seen on TV. I'm not saying I want to just see people criticize the adaptation, just that I think there's more important things about Zuko's character than to be likeable, which is something that the Netflix version really focused on for all its characters.
I had this thought after the blue spirit episode, season 1 zuko is not having a heart to heart conversation with Ang. Hindsight was an issue for writers because they knew where the characters story would go they lost the nuance when settings things up. Even Uncle iroh, nobody back in the day really knew of he was good or bad
Im never getting over the fact that zuko didnt actually fight his father in the agni kai. He gave up immediately to show his compassion, and his fear of his father. It was a great parralel to aang
I dont like the notebook or figures either. It shows his devotion, but as mentioned by your other points, i believe it downplays his rashness
Yeah overall the Agni Kai scene in the Netflix show was done alright. But from a character perspective it did not work as well. It made Ozai less intimidating since zuko almost beat him.
19:45 azula turning on ozai and joining team avatar is a change i see netflix doing😅
I feel like the thing with the crew could have been cool if Zuko would have put the crew in danger after they learn about what happened then have them say “you saved us, we’ll follow you” making Zuko realize what he is doing and stop to protect the crew. Maybe there could have been an Ozi loyalist that would praise and encourage Zuko’s recklessness and ruthlessness seeing it like how Ozi would act.
Also it would be cool to hear your thoughts on Iroh
I liked the zuko division change, but hate the outcome. I like the idea that Zukos defiance did lead to those people surviving, but I hate that Iroh uses that to make the crew like Zuko. If Iroh just told the story and left the crew to grapple with that I think it would still be weaker than the original but stronger than what we had. The emphasis could be placed on how zuko himself never used this info to gain respect. I think this still runs the risk of overshadowing the tragedy of his past with glorifying his character
Why does this feel like tumblr rewrote Atla. Took out all the “problematic” stuff and added a bunch of unnecessary bullshit
Tumbler was THE platform when the cartoon was popular so its plausible "hiring the fans" would result in your observation.
But to be honest I think its just simple cowardice and male insecurity. The writers didn't want to 'upset' the fans the way the theatrical film did and took that logic into removing other 'upsetting' elements that actually never upset anyone in the first place not even most of the kids involved in the Tumbler discourse.
Making Katara technically more powerful while a weaker less assertive character is just typical male feminist BS and I can say that because it takes one to know one.
i never watched the live action and this does make me happy that i didn't i feel like watching this would be like looking at a favorite memory stripped of all emotion and just kind of bland and i would just be wanting to watch the original again
It was much better in the cartoon when they showed that Zuko cared for his crew! While he put them in danger he risked his own life to climb up a save the man hanging from the broken sail in the cartoon. They didn't need a speech they showed us with a simple action that he wanted to get the Avatar but he also wanted to ensure his crew was safe. Reinforcing his honor is in tact even though he can not see it himself. The change isn't my favorite but the delivery is strange. If Iro would've told the story without revealing that they are the crew it could've been better. In the cartoon the story informs his action to save his crew member in this it's a guilt trip and that is very weird for Iro
he was supposed to be the villain of the first season alongside Zhao, but it seems like Netflix had rushed the "let audience sympathize with zuko" part of his arc which was predominantly in season 2 and 3, and it looks like he didn't do much "wrong" to require a redemption in the first place
I honestly never really saw Zuko as that much of a villain. An antagonist, sure, but he was hardly ever cruel, and was usually honorable.
Ya, Zuko's entire mission was to regain his honor and that doesn't really sound like a villainess motivation to me.
@@lovelylife3012 even outside of motivation, I'd hardly say he ever used cruel means to pursue it.
@@lovelylife3012
Yes, Zuko was of the position that he opposed the protagonists that he was an _antagonist,_ specifically an *antagonist by circumstance,* never outright villainy, dot. dot. dot. that it's _Zhao_ who come mid-Book 1 supersedes him as the primary antagonist if not *villain,* ergo that it's Zhao who proceeds with a besieging of the NWT, etcetera.
And if we're furthermore talking about Zuko's perception amongst fandom so help me god, I could go an essay-length rant about the "He's Katara oPpReSSor! Zuko's a vile colonizer!" talk as has more recently (well, since 2020 ATLA Renaissance anyway) been spouted by Zutara-antis (not that they believe so, they're just doing it that such that Ah hah! 😃☝, see, nowwww here's a #Real,Legit reason u shouldn't ship Zutara, it's aCtUaLly problematic... in the face of us Zutarians _still_ shipping it after all this time) and that no, he's *not* a colonizer actually.
Finally someone says it! I keep seeing people praise what the show did with the 41st division and I do not get it. It makes no damn sense!!
Why would Ozai spare the 41rst? That doesn't make any sense
If anything you're too kind to this dumpster fire, and are 100% on point with the changes and the 41st.
i'd love a full review on teh show like episode by episode. the avatar stuff has been my favourite content so far
When my dad, who hasn't watched the original Avatar series, halfway through the series GUESSED/asked that Zuko was going to be one of the protagonist, I *knew* they fumbled with making Zuko antagonistic in the first season >~< his character WAS Zuko, buuuut like Aang, he was sort of getting traits that qre supposed to be in later eeasons of the show TwT
P.S. With that in mind, I'd loove a video picking apart Zhao cuz ughhh, they totally fumbled his chsrscter as well ò-ó
About the crew that came with Zuko, I think it would have been ok if Itoh would have picked them as the crew, kind of behind the warlord's back. But Ozai just giving them to Zuko doesn't make much sense, I agree.
I really don’t understand how that 41st Division detail literally is original to such a mediocre show. Such a fantastic and creative detail that came out of NOWHERE. I wish the whole show was like that.
Great video! And I’d definitely love to see an Aang analysis if you could!
Loved this video, as always. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the Netflix adaptation. But I appreciate the analysis of the storytelling.
i actually REALLY love the part where his crew was the division he saved.
yeah Zuko was the only character that actually surprised me. at first I didn't like him but after the 5th episode he became my favorite character.
Funny thing is I didn't watch the Netflix adaptation. I read about that change to Zuko's crew in an article online. And knowing the original, yeah it didn't make sense in any way. it was a change that could do nothing but weaken the characters in question. And mess with Zuko's gradual character growth.
Also, Zuko being used as motivation for Azula? So they have also changed Azula on a fundamental level. Azula NEVER lacked for drive and motivation in the original. Stopping her once she started something always seemed like it would be the harder task. At least it would if she didn't have plenty of self discipline and intelligence. While she would never give up on a goal once set, she would be willing to pull back for a moment so she could re-assess and attack from another angle. If you remove that drive that changes her COMPLETELY.
The more I hear, the more I am happy I skipped this adaptation.
I TOTALLY AGREE! They did not actually understand these characters.
The thing about zuko is that his a confused character and thats what made me find him fascinating and the Netflix version just makes him a stereotypical villian
I will say they did the scar so dirty it looks bad just make a prosthetic
What in the world is up with Natla's Ozai ?? He's supposed to be the central villain, and I don't understand anything he's doing and it's infuriating aaahhhhh
Thank you! So many people seem to like his portrayal but I don’t feel like he is nearly intimidating enough. They are going for this master manipulator thing, but his “manipulation” is so clunky and obvious it doesn’t wirk
This was a fantastic analysis, particularly the point on why changing Zuko's crew to the division he saved was a bad plot change. I had not though of the change that way before.
I haven't watched past the first episode because I've yet to recover from the tragic and unnecessary massacre shoved into it - the character massacre, that is. But I'd love to hear you talk about Iroh and how the show just... doesn't understand wisdom, at all. Instead of guiding people to their own conclusions, Iroh just tells them whatever they don't know - bluntly, not subtly - and then says "YUM how about that jasmine tea amirite??" because it's quirky.
Good point. The writing feels like an impression of Iroh without understanding what actual wisdom and guidance are
I’ll be honest, it feels like the show was written by Zuko fans who were mad he didn’t turn into the main character, and are getting their vengeance by making Aang less important and Katara into Zuko’s probable love interest
Netflix and modern writers in general are terrified of writing flaws in characters.
Oh my Lord THANK YOU. I literally was talking to myself watching the show saying exactly this. His actions later aren't gonna mean much now because I already KNOW that Zuko is clearly a good guy just below the surface.
If you do decide to do another avatar video, Azula may be a good character to try
aside from all the things you rightfully mentioned in this video - it bothers me so much how significantly they toned down his scar. its SO important to his character!! that scar is basically his biggest shame, symbolizing everything going on between him and ozai, how horrible of a father he is, how abusive, and having that permanently and obviously on his face is i bet a big part of why he is so hotheaded, insecure and angry. its the FIRST thing anyone notices when they see him. he doesnt have an eyebrow on that side and he literally cant completely open that eye. thats a LOT for a thirteen year old to handle, and it actually looks painful. you can see how wrinkled the skin around his eye is.
and again, the live-action (like the last one, though we dont talk about that one 🤫) tones it down to a bit of discolored skin and nothing else. i personally think its part of this whole "no one is allowed to have flaws" thing the netflix atla has going on. not that a scar is a flaw, but it sure feels like the showrunners *think* it is. or they were too lazy to figure out how to make the effect-makeup better. i dont know. but it feels cheap and lazy.
Don't give them ideas like Azula joining team avatar. Unless the plot twist is that Zuko and Azula swap places. That would atleadt be interesting.
That would be upsetting but at least different. They would have to start writing Azula a lot bettet
As for the 41st, I think it would have been an interesting take for the 41st to hear of the story of Zuko defending them and essentially saving their lives, and because of that story (as well as the Agni Kai between Zuko and his father) the 41st would desert with Zuko. I do believe that Zuko should still have moments to where he endangers the crew, and because of this this behavior, it would show just how much Zuko is willing to sacrifice in order to capture the Avatar. Zuko would once again be conflicted with choosing the crew or the Avatar, and with the crew knowing of his honorable actions in the past, they would confront him on his hypocrisy.
It's definitely still messy, and the original is still much better, but if they really wanted to have the 41st as his crew (which I think is such a neat idea), they could definitely do some work to make the Zuko/crew relationships more connected and personal than the original show.
18:23 how others perceive Zuko is an aspect of the original I enjoyed A Lot. Especially in season 2 with the earth nation girls or the family from Zuko Alone. I liked that everyone from the Fire Nation looked down on him and it’s only when traveling amoungst the people his family was imperializing that he was given any kindness.
I assumed the man who told them where Zhao went was a fisherman, who are up early to fish during low tide and may have seen Zhao leaving.
Yeah but he knew both where Zhao went and why he went there. For some reason.
about the 41st division i think its a great idea but very badly done. giving an origin for these soldiers who, by all means, ended up expelled alonside him is interesting, although unnecessary. However making zuko save the division is a pretty good idea if you think about it. My biggest problem is that 1. as you mentioned this is used as a quick fix for the crew relationship with zuko and 2. zuko didnt actually save them. ozai did.
zuko never even mentioned he wanted to bring them along, it was just dropped on him. its a common issue in the adaptation where the character dont do a lot, rather they have stuff done to them.
If they added the small detail that they werent just a new division but one with lower results than expected, so they were better off being sacrificed and zuko, in turn, said something like "its too early to tell if theyre weak" and "I'll have them under my command" or something similar implying that he would take responsibility to train them (maybe even paraleling with the fact that ozai thought he was weak because he started out with bad results compared to azula) and then ozai punishes him and says something along the lines of what you said in the video "you can have those weaklings they are a perfect fit for you anyway. i have plenty of other recruits to use for this strategy"
It would show that zuko cares for people like the original and add in his own choice and action to take them in.
Zuko seeing himself in the division because they were also considered weak might make it less about him caring about random soldier and more him just projecting but with the right wording that wouldnt be a big issue imo and could even forshadow his relationship with azula and ozai.
it would be a change for sure but i dont think changing the show for an adaptation is all bad, as long as the change is interesting
So there are CZcamsrs out there that are willing to make a comprehensive video on why NATLA is flop instead of just coming out and forcing the fanbase to accept that the series is just okay not too bad enough to analyse and maybe not to good enough
Thank you for this video and we’ll love to see more of this analysis the majority of CZcamsrs out their just feel completely comfortable with Zuko which I find to be odd but I can’t explain how cuz I’m not film nerd
I think certain things are hard to transfer from the animated medium to the live action one. I’m certain ways I think this medium helped the fire nation particularly but I’m not sure if those small gains are worth the other losses. I agree that having him be less “bad” will soften the impact of his power redemption arc. Also I agree w the point you made early in the video- good people / characters can do actual bad things- sometimes they are needed- especially to build a character & set up an arc like Zuko’s.
I love how they made Zuko's crew more important characters now, compared to just being some random people.
But I do also see where you're coming from now as well.
7:00ff - "Burn the whole place to the ground!" - "Yeah okay, that's Zuko."
Actually, no it's not. _Original_ Zuko made no such threat, and I don't remember him _ever_ threatening anyone with war crimes. In the original, he and Aang fight, and when Aang notices that Zuko might _accidentally_ harm bystanders because he's too caught up in his passion, he surrenders to Zuko.
Here's the thing: Netflix' Avatar makes sure to let us know that this is still the Zuko we _misremember_ the original as. Original Zuko wasn't written as a villain, he was written as an antihero who happens to be on the wrong side because he initially fails to understand that his relationship with his father is one of emotional and physical abuse. But the fandom _misremembers_ him as essentially Kylo Ren, because fandom in general loves its villain redemptions.
THANK YOU. I watched that scene and immediately was like uh no he would never do that. Just rewatch the animated ep and see how much less aggressive he is when disarming Sokka. He never uses his fire. In the live action, he tries to shoot a fireball at Sokka while he's down. He wouldn't even do that to Zao. "Next time, i wont hesitate." "Take my hand!" Yeah ok sure. Like you said, he's an antihero. In fact i think the most villainous thing he did was send an assassin after Aang but tbh the 3rd season made everyone slightly OOC. The best writers had left the show at that point.
@@catwithquill Season 3 still had a whole bunch of banger episodes though. The Southern Raiders is easily among my top 5 episodes.
Zuko was not an antihero, what are you talking about?? He was a villain and a bad person, og Zuko didn't care if he hurt other people, he didn't care if he "accidentally" harmed bystanders since he deliberately threatened them to burn them/their village not even 5 minutes ago. I don't think he would have automatically gone for the kill, but he was still horrible. Even after he changes sides he does some awful things.
He doesn't give a fuck that his own sister, his family, is falling to her death and snarls when she saves her life, in contrast with S1 when he tried to save ZHAO, a guy who actively tried to kill him. How did that kindness extend to Zhao but not the girl he grew up with and gave him the chance to have everything he (thought he) wanted when her mission was to capture him?? Yes, Azula is horrible, but she had no other option but to become Ozai's weapon and still tries to love and care for other people even if she wasn't ever taught a healthy way of loving and having relationships, Zhao is horrible too and did much worse to Zuko than Azula and he still tried to save the admiral but not his sister
He calls Aang's beliefs stupid when he says "this isn't air temple preschool, this is the real world" and calls him "guru goody-goody" and never apologizes for that, it's specially hurtful when you think that air nomad philosophy is almost wiped out of the planet because of Zuko's family and nation (I know it isn't his fault since he wasn't even born then, but it was a tactless and cruel remark anyways). When Aang wants not to kill Ozai, he again mocks his intentions: "oh yeah, and then we show him his baby pictures and all those happy memories will make him good again". The mission is more important than the safety of the crew now, for real
He holds his mentally ill sister over a fucking cliff with the obvious tacit threat of letting her fall off
Has no qualms asking his twelve year old friend to kill him when Aang couldn't even kill Ozai (though he does realize it was a shitty thing to do and apologizes)
Etc, etc
Lol did you not remember all the times he destroyed other villages in his pursuit for Aang---Kyoshi village, the perfume monastry place---bro would have totally burned down the southern tribes homes if he saw it as necessary. He totally gets blinded every time he has Aang in sight. Which is why him betraying the person who loves him most in order to win is so believable. Zuko begins as a villian then transions to antihero as he begins to question himself before ultimately becoming a hero.
@@mahiiragi Azula being mentally ill is correct, but kind of beside the point. If Azula can claim her sociopathy as an excuse, then surely Zuko can claim his PTSD caused by Ozai as an excuse too. Also, I don't see an abusive family as an ethical value. As for Zuko calling Aang mean names, I _really_ hope you aren't serious. By _that_ standard, Katara would be evil too, because she once threatened Zuko with murder.
before i watch this here’s my opinion: they didn’t make zuko “too good” they showed his true colours too much, too soon. we should still dislike zuko, while seeing where he comes from. we can have a little sympathy, as a treat.
They just didn't understand these characters or the main plot
I think they had a surface level understanding of them, but never bothered going into what made them great.
3:37 what episode is this from. I dont remember katars hitting herself, was it cut?
Sigh imagine if studios actually had new ideas instead of just trying to revive reboot and remaster everything that was good, into something that isn't.
Yea I was so surprised when people said this zuko was just like the one from the anime, it’s just not true. They made him so sympathetic lol, I want him to seem more like the villain in the beginning xD
I freaking called it, back when I saw the article that they were taking away sokka's sexism in the netflix show, they would make katara a girlboss that is more of their mc than aang, make aang silly, make sokka useless and boring, and take away zuko's entire character arc.
When they say they're gonna change any aspects of an existing story to "adapt it to modern audiences", they will change everything they can and twist it into some half assed idealistic slop
Imagine having the blueprint for one of the greatest redemption arcs in television, and fumbling the bag this clumsily... I watched season one of this adaptation, but that's as far as I'll go with this mess.