Soft Support Tier List | Dota 2 7.35b
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- This is my take on the best position 4 supports in the game right now. I try to consider both pro scene and pub reality for these rankings, but of course things can move up and down a bit.
Position 5 Tier List - • Hard Support Tier List...
Guides:
Nature's Prophet - • I LOVE this new suppor...
Farming on NP - • Don't fall for this cl...
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Hoodwink: Acorn shot scales better, lower cooldown more dmg. Bushwack just gives 0.2 more stun per level and aa bit more damage. Scurry gives you alot of survivability, lowers CD, lengthens duration, but it also gives you longer cast range and attack range, hence it is maxed second.
2-2-0 in lane if you have no trouble is good, then you max Q then E, leaving bushwack at lvl 2. Or you can go 4-1-1 followed by maxing E then W.
Arcanes -> Wand -> Wraith Band -> Glimmer/Force/Mage Slayer or Atos into Gleipnir (Atos first) is the build to go.
This is OG.Aris advice, and I have tried it, and it works really well!
According to Ari, maxing bushwhack first leaves you with 1 spell at level 7 but maxing acorn shot first gives you two spells. The scaling on bushwhack is effectively just damage and higher manacost, you get so much more with acorn shot (damage, cooldown, bounces, range). I think he also usually maxes out scurry before bushwhack too but that doesn't seem as important. maxing acorn shot really is the only correct option
Thank you Zach! My man dropped both support lists in 3 days! What a hero as everyone else focuses on core roles first (bsj, jenkins cough cough)
Any clue where I can find a reliable tier list for pos1 and pos2?
@@Hestia23 Jenkins recently did a pos2 tier list:
czcams.com/video/dywxwkh1G2I/video.html
@@danielgrobbelaar9672 thank you. I hope to see a pos1 list soon.
I've been trying to make pos 4 PA work. Build orb of corrosion into mage slayer and then between the evasion and magic resistance you're surprisingly tanky. You also serve as a great reason to be losing so the rest of your team don't fight with eachother. End with a Khanda for mixed damage type and maximum reports.
Grandmaster hoodwink here. Have been playing the new patch. Imo, acorn is the definitely one to level first. You're able to contribute significantly to kills whilst bushwack's scaling is pretty awful other than damage. Maxing scurry is great to stay at the edge of teamfights, too far to be jumped, and too much evasion to easily kill for any right-clickers. The extra cast range is like picking up an early aether lens, without ever needing to buy it. It scales in 6 different stats! Glimmer, force staff, euls, atos are all great value and amazing catch early on with the extra cast range.
Always, ALWAYS, buy a blight stone. It's 20-30 damage even against high armor heroes like slardar, on level 1 acorn. Lvl 1 acorn is easily a 150 damage nuke for a level 1 spell if you get both bounces to hit the same hero. And it only gets better!
Consider taking evasion talent against many right clicking cores.
Ari has been spamming Hoodwink recently and he maxes Accorn and Scurry first (with one or 2 points in bushwhack) and this is very strong, I had a lot of success with this build in my games.
Most Hoodwink pros play it with Mage Slayer and Atos and it’s doing wonders in team fights.
Ive been playing plenty of pos 4 druid in 6.5k pubs and it works pretty well
Pull camp is blocked first 3 minutes than you can just farm it with enemy 5 looking at ya, plus pretty easy to snipe couriers with an obs between t1 and t2
You can dive tower with bear being both the slow and a sponge for tower hits
Offlaner to carry matchup has to be at least even though as you do want to spend a lot of time away from the lane
You can start oov plus branches and go for treads wraithbands into basher × 2 on both bear and druid or if the game becomes a stomp regular diffusal harpoon route
Gotta be comfortable with the hero though obviously
Pos 4 Hoodwink is so fun this patch!
Warlock is my top 4 at the moment. Apart from that, this list is a pretty good reflection of what I'm seeing in game.
I got an enemy pos 5 Viper in my last game last night. He rushed Mage Slayer. He was doing decent in lane, the problem is they have no other utility items such as Force Staff. The support meta is really weird. On the other hand, I hate playing Veno as 4 on the sole reason that the chase distance for enemies is shorter compared to when you play him as 5. Solid tier list, Z.
Disclaimer: Crusader-Archon
YESS HOODWINK VIABLE
Here're my thoughts on the skill maxing:
Q Max: Damage and a lot more bounces, feels very good to gank with especially with a thin wave, or when the enemy is retreating, but definitely a greedy choice. Like you said, basically turns effects like Mage Slayer into an AoE mini-Lich ultimate.
W Max: The standard, one of the highest magic damage nukes in the game (360 damage) and good aoe stun (2s!) on a 7s cooldown with the talent. Generally just very very good in most situations.
E Max: Free Aether Lens+, lets you land bushwhacks from absurd ranges to catch people, if the enemy lacks range/engage maxing E usually makes you nearly invincible, AND you get a free 30% evasion. Against someone like Faceless Void, for example, you don't even need to risk getting hit by a chrono to stun him out of it because you're so far away at all times. He either dives all the way into the back to get you, or he chronos and you just punish him with a stun.
She also does pretty well against some of the top tiers (E and W punish Nature's Prophet Sprout, see above for Faceless Void, etc.)
Dire side Arc Warden will pop up on your list soon.
can you make a video about all dota 2 items and counter items on heroes?
Pretty sure disperser only dispels allies, not enemies, so ink swell can’t be purged by enemies.
then how to deal in lane with tiny&nyx
I was just thinking as I watched this video. If you need a way to keep people watching the whole video and not skip to the end you could focus more information about more how to counter some of the stronger or frustrating heroes? I’m thinking of ways to encode information in your videos that reward watching and not skipping :)
For the record I watch these videos all the way through :)
No distruptor & warlock?
No Tusk? :( One of the best ganking 4s in the game, and super fun to play. Would love to know your thoughts on him in the current meta.
Can't Jakiro go 4? He's pretty much a Veno but instead of vision he gives tower threat. You can build him almost identically to a Veno 4. Jakiro also has some scaling potential in either a high magical damage build (scepter, E-blade), or a tower sieging build (dragon lance, shard).
He's not bad at all, but I don't think he offers the best damage or CC compared to longer duration+faster casting stuns, Just for example, I think icepath does 50 magical dmg at all levels and only benefit for more levels is more stun time and lower CD. So if the attack speed+move speed slows are powerful against the enemy heroes it will be good, if they have any form of escape or higher burst damage than you I think you would struggle. Jakiro DPS and slows can be deceptively powerful, but they do take time to work. Think it just depends on the amount of burst. If you look at the highest tiered heroes on this list, like top tenish they all have a burst dmg combo or get the "burst" off in a short amount of time like NP with the stacks from teleport. Lion, SB, tiny, tusk, nyx, hoodwink all can pour out more than 50% of their mana in about 5 seconds. Jakiro's teamfight strengths rely in the size of his spells and their cast ranges are massive, with burning DoT. DoT is gonna be drastically stronger and weaker vs different enemy heroes (Heroes that dont want to be kited like ursa or sven vs slark and PL purging off every burn).
To go back to the original question, I think he wouldsuffer to be the pos 4 rotating ganker when an icepath from trees is no longer enough to burst down targets. Icepath is your strongest ganking spell apart from breathe fire or w/e the first one is, but icepath is going to be the most castable. Like I said low dmg especially vs creeps for wave clearing pushes into tower. Jakiro is like AOE annoying slows from trees AND a strong pusher with no items. I think that last part where he doesnt need items or points in the ability tree to enable it really puts him into pos 5 territory. Greedy pos 4 jakiro can be strong too, but I think the strong pushing or longer fights have to be an important piece of how he fits into your teams draft and not an afterthought if you wanted high winrates with it. I'd find and research what allied heroes best compliment his timings and pressure/pace on the map and ask allies to pick a couple of the most popular strong 3 pos of those so you can get the lane pairing.
@MegaJackolope Jakiro is literally best damage traditional support in game lol
I play jak 4 and I play divine low immortal bracket, null, boots, wand, mage slayer, then whatever your team needs.
He addressed that at 22:50
I love Jakiro as a 4. Really good if they want to step up to your core or your core wants to step up to them.
Lina is totally a grief pick but cause her attack range is so good she still has decent enough laning I think. At the end of the day support Lina in an average game is just a good stun and less burst then other 4’s after the lane
Good to see Hoodwink back in the top half. Nevertheless, still missing many heroes as highlighted in other comments. Plus, got the feeling it is a matter of playstyle, too. No Ursa, Riki despair, no Dark Seer, no Slark, no Bristleback,... and I've probably forgotten many others. Looks like you dislike the 'high risk high reward" roamers, those relying on kills to scale, in a position they can allow the team to spare money for a "true" position 1. Cause Riki position 1 is kind of a 20k coins waste... Slark somehow, too. Ursa is good at both. Dark Seer, position 1 looks like a troll pick (with Agh).
I don't even understand why you conclude with that slap in the face of Riki, knowing Riki nukes your Lion S tier...
Each time I see more than one wizard, Riki is my first pick position 4. Smoke + Orchid, over. Can even defuse Linken with one shot of Blink and you still have the second one. I would say Riki is even far less affected by Linken than a Spirit Breaker A tier. No really, don't undertand, but I assume there is a reason mine does not get.
Last game as Riki pos. 4 (my actual last one) : 15/4/24, against one Morphing, one Cristal Maiden, a Spirit Breaker and even a Meepo. Second best out of 5. Not bad for a pos. 4 despair...
Im in ancient and for me pugna is the most first ban for supp, the hero literally just need 3 core items to reach full potential in mid game and its super annoying
Why no WD in the list?
I like playing death prophet 4
Where would you place Witch Doctor atm ?
A/B for lower ranks, moves down to C/D for Immortal+ games
Bro you sound a lil' scruffy with your voice, you sick? Cheers for all the videos from Finland!
I am okay, thanks for the concern! Probably just talked a lot so my voice got tired
Ogre Magi with armlet and assault cuirass
Tybg
Where is Dazzle?
I think people are sleeping on magnus 4. There is a lot of heroes that "walk" into team fights like Abba, viper, death Prophet... Magnus scewer, at least in legend, is broken. I got 15 games with 12 wins
No cm or disruptor?
They are better 5's, maybe C tier as pos 4
Completely missing Lich?
No Pos 4 Visage?
I don't think he's a very good pos 4 right now, mostly see him offlane or mid
I still cannot understand what a soft support or hard support is, it’s quite confusing
Hard support (5) goes easy lane with the carry, soft support (4) goes off lane with the offlaner.
Hard support babysits carry, farms less and usually buys more team oriented items.
Soft support roams the map more often and gets some farm to scale.
But of course there are exceptions to this.
@@davidrozenblit6486 thanks :)) just when I thought it would make sense, you said there are exceptions, but I do understand it better now, as in the number is the priority of the farm too
@@ramstabShadow shaman pos5 will rotate to mid to get gank and secure rune/powerrune. That's usually the only gank that they consistently make before lanes break out at min 8-12.
Pos 4 will also try make more kills in their lane compared to pos 5 who will usually have a pos1 hero that farns early kills late compared to offlaner pos3 who usually kills early with stuns/slows/roots. Also exceptions always exist
Also pos 1-5 is about networth ranking within the team, or the intended ranking. Mid or off later can carry the game and be "pos1" most important for farming. Especially if you punish enemy mistakes and use your teams timings, like getting butterfly before they have mkb or bkb when they have a strong ult that doesn't pierce bkb
Gyrocopter only B? I'd say he is at S or A easily.
I've been getting extreme success with it since i came back. Hero does too much damage and can become a core at any point, shard is busted.
No Jakiro? Is he not really a 4 anymore? I didn't get the memo 😅
He can work, I'd say C tier. I think he's getting a little better with E being buffed over time, but he's got some weaknesses that others don't have, namely too slow and short ranged compared to other 4's. His spells are good but weak to dispels which pos 5's are more likely to have than enemy pos 4's
Treant b tier?
No Oracle? No puck? Support?
Where is WD??
I'd say A/B tier for lower ranks and he moves down to C/D tier for Immortal pubs. He's a better position 5 in my opinion
Where is Arc Warden on this list. It's possible.
Razor needs to be on here as well. He doesn’t NEED farm, just levels. And his passive makes him roam insanely fast. Level 6 and you can kill anybody on the map solo(smoke into well/mines and solo pick their afk farmer). Add phylactery and you get your extra survivability and kill potential and shard you turn into batrider on 15 second cooldown. And he is absolutely happy to soak up some extra creep waves.
Edit: not to mention mage slayer and the same reasoning that he gave for wyvern.
Phylactery isn't good on heroes that don't have CD spells less than 6 seconds or a nuke that does 400 damage or more.
Im a noob and i want to learn to play tiny. Do anyone know some minigame for tiny toss in arcade?
Sand king 4 not even worth a mention?
algo
Nearly 6k views and only 178 Likes.... Come on guys give it a thumbs up!
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hi zquinox great list. much better than jenkinatgay
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