Home Shop Rifling THREE(ish)...China vs. Ukraine Rifling Buttons!
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2019
- My third rifling video. Gun barrel rifling has gone from mystery to mainstream, and the interest has never been greater! Some good information here on rifling with the Ebay-available rifling buttons from China and Ukraine.
Hiding behind a pressurized fire extinguisher seems like an interesting way to avoid shrapnel.
Yeah but it wouldn't bust an extinguisher.
The extinguisher wouldn't explode, just spray the fire retardant chemical all over through the hole. And that's only if it actually penetrates the fire extinguisher anyway.
A suggestion for tool makers: make the back of the button concave and the mating surface of the push rod convex. This keeps the two colinear and provides a rounded leading edge, both to prevent damaging the new rifling with the push rod.
Or just chamfer your own rod, it obv wasnt purpose built for doing this
Actually a bang up idea.
Chamber up a cartridge with a button rifling bullet!
Lube, chamber, fire! One smooth cycle!
@@MFKR696 I try to be understanding of people with disabilities. Were you born without a sense of humor or did you lose it in an accident?
@@sprky777looks like the comment was removed😂
Dude! We're gonna start a gofundme for you to get a new press. I put a Harbor Freight catalog in the mail for you in the meantime. It may take a few months for the donkey to walk to FL from Maine, but it will go by soon. :-) Great job my friend. This video series shows how easy this can be for anyone, not just someone with a huge machine shop, to make a firearm. That's a win for everyone.
Thanks, Jeff. Wait until you see the next video… I just bought a hydraulic power unit and I’m making my own rifling machine.
A new harbor freight press isn't any better than an old harbor freight press 🤫
@@markserbu did you anneal the steel before buttoning it? It's what they recommend on their site but not sure how to heat treat it afterwards
Try tightening up those return Springs on your press with those threaded eye bolts... Great video Thanks for sharing!
That was painful, I wanted to buy an airline ticket and fly down to tighten the springs on your press. Three minutes to tighten and the video could have been half as long. As my Dad used to say "Sharpen the saw", actually he used to say "sharpen your knife and if it touches the elk hair it will be dull so sharpen it again."
I'm 71 and I still love learning, especially about gunzzz. Thanks Mark!
In before CZcams deletes this Video. Good work mark, keep it up.
I don’t think they deleted it
And I thought my press is shit. Watching this video makes me feel better about my equipment. THANKS!
Hiding behind the steel beam while you work the press. Classic risk mitigation.
Nothing better than jamming rods in holes. Then filming it to put on the internet? That'll never take off...
🤣
Hey Mark, if you tighten the eyelet nuts on your press's crossbar one to two inches (below the ram), it'll preload the springs and pull the ram up by itself..
hello from Ukraine! good luck
When Mark speeds up the video his voice sounds so funny I thought I was watching The Swedish Chef from Sesame Street. C'mon Mark, say it! "Bork bork bork, mmm skip skedoo."
But more on the serious side of things, I'm grateful to Mark for educating us about rifling. Ever since I was a kid (45 years ago) I've been absolutely mystified as to how rifling was done. I never really researched it but always just assumed it required a far more elaborate contraption to get it done. What Mark is doing in these videos, I could do myself in my own home. Absolutely mind blowing.
Thanks for this video, Have a great weekend! Yes some of us like your schooling on tools and machines.
Awesome stuff man. As a garage gunsmith I truly am inspired by your work!
Thanks a bunch for this series on rifling.
I love your videos, you really are a nut! Please keep making them. Thanks again
I’m so freakin happy your doing these videos Mark
Very cool. Thank you Mark Serbu!
I can't wait until he tries to rifle an 18"-20" barrel. That's gonna be total hell
8 mm ball brings following the button adding one after the other without damaging the barrel.
Really interesting, was cool meeting you at shop I hope you liked the patch
Great to see you doing something you like with good results
"I gotta go out skiing".. Oh the hardship Mark! lol
I can do it
No u
No disrespect Edwin, but I don't think you could machine your way out of a wet paper bag. 😂😂😂
Professionals make it LOOK easy.
You mean you could pay someone to do it for you. You have more dollars than sense.
Mark you are living the dream sir, you are a awesome person and I hope to shake your hand one day. You have done wonders for the gun industries and Val well is just Val .... (jkn) anyways ty for the vids!!
Hi Mark, thanks for the video, you kept promises, thank you so much.
I think if you measure inside the dimensions of the barrel, it becomes clear who the winner is)
Personally, my opinion is that the cuts in height in the Chinese button are low, which is already wrong for the barrel
But why wrong ??
Hiding behind the Steel Beam... What a Novel Idea... I completely agree with it too. Although a directional shield should suffice. You need some return springs on that press.
Mark, I have no comment, just pure admiration.
I think the Chinese button is the winner because it's like 20euros on ebay...
I appreciate that this video is sped up not cut up. Shows that yeah there’s a lot of doing the same shit over and over again
Congratulations on 50 K!
McSerbu😁
Glad to see you here before the accident, you've always been a fan of Mark, scott.
Stay strong man.
Oh this series is a treat. I've been a machinist \ prototyper \ model maker \ programmer \ etc for 15 years. I really like you Mark. Moreso, how you think. Adapt and overcome. There's more than one way to an end result.
Fun fact: one of the more fun and challenging things I've ever done was produce 10 box mags for Remington. This was about 2005. It was a caliber I'd never heard of. All I got was the prints for the mag, so I don't know the cartridge dimensions, but I'd have loved to though. Pretty sure it was a round not in existence. IIRC it was 10 or less round mag and likely a hunting style rifle.
Anyway, the beauty of model making was I would be supplied a print and a solid model. I would have to "unwrap" the part and figure out the dimensions for the flat blank. It really not hard. There are formulas to figure takeup for a bend radius and what it amounts to in a linear dimension in a flat state. You add those to the straight leg dims and that will give you the OAL. Its not always exactly perfect as far as the formula and can vary with stock thickness and material, but that's why we have tolerances. ;). I engineered and made all the tooling and formed the mags first on a hydraulic press to put the strengthening ribs in the flat blank. Then fold it up in the press brake. Then they got welded at the seam in the back where it met up. That's the only thing I didn't do was weld. After weld I had to make a fixture to hold the part and machine feed lips to dim. I couldn't control it with a bend no matter what I did because if angles and how they compund.
It was a lot of fun. I was maybe 23 or 24 at the time.
Edit: I completely understand why people through history have chosen to use sten mags and the like how you did with the ROF. It's a pain in the ass to make mags if you don't have to lol.
You know, a few nice pieces of laminated plexiglass would make a really nice safety shield. Also an interesting idea would be using the top of a cam lifter as a shield to prevent shattered hardened steel pusher rods from blowing up. Presses are more dangerous than most people understand. PS - great video by the way. :)
Loving that Glacier Park shirt. That's my neck of the woods.
Love your video! Looking forward to another video .... "Turning a POS hydraulic press into a usable shop tool"
I had a family member that had a P.O.S press like that he made some shims and tac welded them on to the ends where it is flapping and like magic it works great
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
So 2 weeks till the next one?😂
Great videos Mark. Thanks for doing this and letting us all see it.
Great way to start the morning!
Just received my China button today. Can’t wait to try it. Love the videos Mark. Trying to put together a PA Luty esq build right now. If it goes well I’ll share the plans
tell us how it goes. did you get a 9mm button for a .380 or a 9 para?
I think there are no specific .380 Buttons out there.
@@shlomogoldshekelbergstein7189 no shit, its a 9mm bullet
Don't mind me, just adding myself onto the list.
@@Tunkkis have you seen the inrange video on .50 GI and when ian says thats a spicy meatball? unrelated to this thread just your pfp
The Chinese rifling buttons I got have flutes to cut 6-groove rifling, and the grooves are fairly deep. I nearly went with 12-groove buttons, but since I shoot mostly cast bullets, I didn't want the fouling that too often comes with micro-groove barrels.
If you load the button in a cartridge and fire it through the unrifled barrel, you could get it done a lot faster. Maybe... I'd stand far away though 😂
Just use more and more powder until it goes all the way through the barrel! EZPZ.
Love your videos
😂😂😂😂 I would love to see someone try that in a video
Thats what blanks are for!
The barrel would probably need to be super overbuilt and be attached to a massive breech.
This may have been said, but looks like you could tighten up those eye-bolts and give the springs some more tension on your press. Great vid.
Nice to see you taking cover behind that compressed cylinder :-)
Love your work by the way!
@Mark In reality I should be going out of my way to destroy my family jewels, considering they had a part in making 50CalVal. ;-)
markserbu so the twist of the button will form in the barrel without you manually trusting the button and is it dead on and repeatable??
@@donaldgoembel7109 Yes, a push-through button twists on its own. Dead-on and repeatable? I'm not positive, but it's been done in production for many years so it's obviously good enough.
markserbu thanks it's the first time I've seen short barrel and button. It's always a long barrel and long button being pulled through and I always ASS-sumed the rod with the button was being mechanically applied trist. Thanks a bunch. You put out a really good video on this matter.
@msrkserbu, why are you always hard on 50CalVal? Its great to have a daughter involved in the gun works. I have been teaching my daughter as much as possible when it comes to manufacturing most anything. The unfortunate issue is that where we moved to years ago it is a location where the government here fears an armed citizen. Good news is it doesn't stop many individuals around here.
Keep up the great videos!
I would like to make a suggestion, put a couple of more return spring on that press, and anchor it down so that it returns on its own, and it won't wobble around as much. Just a suggestion to make using it much easier for anyone who might use it in the future.
Continue with these videos Mark! It would be nice to test these two barrels. See if the projectile would be stable. Now on aliexpress all these tools are available, making it possible for poor people to make their weapons. Before, it was impossible to pay $ 250 on a rifle button. (all money of my month). Thanks for teaching what you know, I'm your fan here in Brazil!
You could put a some vacuum hose maybe a straw or something around spacers that keeps it centered on the button posibly to prevent rifling damage. Put a pvc pipe around hole thing (after making a mark to where the press is almost down on the barrel).
interesting video. i wonder if you should carve out a groove in the first spacer (perpendicular to the hole) to let the air and grease out of the barrel as you press the rifling button through it?
The hiding behind the column had me going.
That press would drive me friggin' batty before I even got 1 barrel done!
Thanks for this videos mr.serbu..this is a great help since it's so freakin expensive to buy barrels here on the Philippines. Now i can just machine and make my own. And maybe make better one's.
Can't ban knowledge!! Keep up the fight!
we know you're a big strong guy but, try tightening up the return springs on you-re press would help you out no end, and there would be no more weightlifting involved. and less weightlifting means your arms would have more strength for lifting more beer can's at night after working all day!
Try ECM its a pretty nifty trick for doing rifling without machine tools.
Using a pressure vessel as cover is my main take away today :-)
5 years late and y'all know why Ukraine was making rifling bits lol
we're also making long range one way UAVs now ;)
very good work
Marc Serbu hiding behind the the fire extinguisher ... unfamiliar cautiousness 🤣
I think truck and car axles are 4140 steel. I think you could make a bundle by just packaging up kits like a hole drill, reamer, chamber drill and reamer and button rifle for 9mm, 556, 308 and folks would probably buy those if you had a good marketing venue. I have to source all that a piece at a time. Good video. Hiding behind that beam is clever. Very safe compared to a shop apron.
looking forward to the next video
I love you hiding behind the I-beam. LOL. For anyone that doesn't understand why you'd do such a thing, hasn't lived life a little too far on the edge.
Time to build a hydraulic ram driven fixture to push the button through in one smooth motion?
Just a thought. how about having a 'V' cut into the end of the first insert after the button then another insert that fits into the first button and make a number of inserts to use to push the button all the way thru then a solid rod to push all the inserts out
so many thanks 🙏🏻
4 strips or HDPE to act as slides for the moving bar on your press will make a big difference.
First you bore for exam.. 9 mm luger. The china buton is 9mm to 9.32 mm the ukraine proper 8.83 to 9.0.
So the hole have to be 8.7 mm. After this you press a steel ball through. To compress the walls. Then you go further to the button.
The barrel needs to be proper stabilized. The button has to be pressed with impulse.😉
Offcourse dont forget chamfering hardenning and blueing.
I just did mine in a vice it worked really well.
That's still really impressive
Very good nice video sir
Thanks Mark! 😁
Luty style rifling.
If we had ammo over here in Europe, this would be a nice challenge ;-)
Put some brass behind the tungsten carbide, otherwise it cracks easily, if pushed too hard with hardened steel rods.
I love how you duck behind a steel beam for protection, but leave the fire extinguisher right in front of your crotch
Holy crap! I just realized you are the maker of the super shorty!😃😃😁
Someone's got to do it! :-)
Much respect sir!
markserbu been looking to buy Ukrainian .22 button without success. Can you send me the link please. Love your work and greetings from Australia 🇦🇺
Mark would you make a super shorty chambered in 45 long colt/.410 and categorize it as an other? Or simply as a pistol?
You mentioned in the comments that you are building a rifling press. Sounds awesome! I'm going to build one too. I'm going to use a harbor freight air powered hydraulic ram with a 17 inch stroke, but I'm going to build the rest of the system to handle up to a 24 inch stroke if I want to upgrade the hydraulic ram later.
I wanted to cut down on the amount of unsupported pushrod, so I'm going to cut a recess into the bushings for the springs to rest inside (maybe this will secure the springs better too). If I used 2 inch thick bushings I could recess the springs a half inch on each side, then the bushings would touch when the springs are fully compressed and there would only be 1 inch of unsupported pushrod between the bushings when uncompressed.
I'm going to buy 6ft of some hardened rod off the shelf from mcmaster 50,000psi Rockwell C60 www.mcmaster.com/1555t12
Although I'm thinking about just using annealed rod since it would be so much cheaper. www.mcmaster.com/8920k115
I'm not sure if I could get away with using annealed rod even though it has a similar yield strength. I know the annealed rod would be more forgiving but I think it could have problems at the end points.
Probably using these springs: www.mcmaster.com/1986k655 I think if I can fit them into the bushings snugly they will hold alignment very well. They have approx 50lbs pressure so hopefully they can "auto-retract" the system after pushing the button completely through.
Some 1.5" schedule 40 pipe (72" long, using a drilled cap on the end for the pushrod to emerge from)
The hydraulic ram (8 tons but only a 17 inch stroke) is this harbor freight ram www.harborfreight.com/8-ton-long-ram-air-hydraulic-jack-94562.html but If a proper hydraulic power unit is used, I'm sure its easy to find something with a longer stroke and more tonnage.
Parts count:
-24 (plus a couple spares) support bushings (2 inches thick, 1.5 inch diameter, 1/2 inch deep recess on each side for the springs to rest inside, center hole for pushrod) should be easy enough to make from 1.5 inch bar stock
-24 (plus a couple spares) springs for between the bushings
-6Ft of 1.5" schedule 40 pipe
-hydraulic ram
-aluminum support block for barrel blanks
-6ft hardened rod
Cant wait to see how your's works! I almost want to wait until you finish yours before I build mine.
-Max
I bought a hydraulic power unit and a hydraulic cylinder from Ebay. I haven't finished the design but I will soon, and I'll do a video on it. One thing about the push rods...they don't need to be hardened at all, at least not for stress reasons. But having them hardened where they contact the button makes them slick, and allows the button to twist easier. Something else that escapes most people is that regardless of the strength of the push rod, column buckling is an issue. In other words, if an annealed rod will buckle, so will a hardened one.
@@markserbu thanks! that should save me 50 bucks by using annealed rod. I'll harden the ends so they stay slick. The column buckling is definitely my biggest concern, so hopefully I can find the balance between smooth ram movement and tight support of the pushrod.
Edit: if you have a couple recommendations for the best steel for a pushrod let me know! www.mcmaster.com/round-bars
I'm thinking about using 1144 Carbon Steel Ultra Strength rod (125,000psi yield strength) Rockwell B70 annealed, C60 hardened www.mcmaster.com/6628k23
More Serbu's for Canada please Mark! Still don't have my BFG.50 yet😢
Keep it up Sir, youtube doesn't even show you in my subscriber feed at this point LOL ... I have to look for your channel specifically.
He doesn't upload too often for that little bell thingy to be too annoying.
Nice another rifling video
I like the idea of the Ukraine one having that bump to iron out the tops of the lands. I think it would make the corners of the top of the lands sharper. I'm not sure if that's a plus, but it seems that un-jacketed bullets would work better with the sharp corners.
If I remember correctly.... you promised to show us how to make homemade rifling buttons of our own. I hope that is still the plan. I make my own muzzleloaders of various sizes and ebay doesn't have rifling buttons in the sizes that I need. I have a mini lathe and mini mill but getting the button to spin as I mill it is the part that would normally cost me a lot of money to overcome with stock tooling. I'm hoping that your ingenious brain has some master tricks that I don't know about for making rifling buttons. Keep up the great work! Love the channel and content!
The Idahoan show made a great video about how to make rifling buttons by yourself.
@@RandomGuy9 Yes, I've seen them. But he uses a special "Norris Chuck" to get those results. That device is pretty expensive to buy/make. I would also want better accuracy than can be achieved using his manual Dremel tool method. I've been thinking about making a sine bar attachment for my mill to spin the rifling button as it is milled, but I was hoping that Marc had a better idea.
@@mtslyh Guys, please give a link or the full name of the file so that we can find and see it.
this guy is awsome
I was more afraid of the press blowing out lol
That drill rod blanks don't come pre hard. You harden them in the shop. Either Air, Oil or Water hardened depending which you buy
Correct, normally drill rod (W1, O1, M2, etc.) blanks come annealed. But these are Chinese-made blanks specifically made for this purpose, are specific diameters and lengths and are sold hardened.
Is there a difference in the quality of the result if the rifling was made by the button being pulled out of the bore instead of being pushed out of the bore?
whens the next video on rifling coming its been some time. I cant wait mark
I m just wondering, if the pusher extensions were slightly tapered, and the ends slightly concave , then a ball bearing between each extension, would it make it work a little better?
Yes it would allow the button to turn easier against the extension. Well spotted.
I made my own button from a hardened cylindrical pin, macgyver style.
So damn cool 😎
Never seen anyone so scared of a press ever
Last time he tried his push rod shattered and blasted him lol, I don't blame him for taking cover
Hey there. Just wondering if will still be a followup vidoes as mention in the last minute of the video or are we watching your vids on another format provider ?
Wow this is awesome. I never realize how "easy" it would be to rifle a barrel. I always thought you needed massive dedicated tools to do it.
Check out a video called "Gunsmith of Williamsburg." It demonstrates the whole process of making rifles in the colonial days with rifling, no power machinery. In colonial Williamsburg people live like they're still in the colonies and perform the same jobs they did back then.
@@juansolo1617 I've seen how some of the old hexigon barrels for muskets have been rifled. Totally different than modern rifling. I'll check the video out, thanks.
also check out the ecm method used in the fgc9 :-)
Look at the left's not score break. and very smooth.
I wonder how well this would work in a Luty-esque build, using just seamless steel tubing. Luty also published instructions in one of his books on creating a makeshift chamber reamer, which would be interesting to see in action. I'll try to find a way to link the pages to here at some point.
Tunkkis do you remember what book it was?
@@SammyNeverEver It was "Expedient Homemade Firearms: The 9mm Submachine Gun", the chapter begins on page 19. archive.org/details/Expedient_Homemade_Firearms_9mm_Submachine_Gun_P_A_Luty_Paladin_Press
@@thesmith2327 Thanks for the info, I'll look into it.
After watching # 2 I am going to get drunk and make my own Berle. And butten! I'd bet not going to have any problems.
I like hearing you pronounce that word, Molly /molybdenum, The way you do/did. Don't hear it everyday! P.S. The new HF 20 TON IS A SILVER COLOR (I JUST BOUGHT ONE/HAVEN'T YET PUT IT TOGETHER/WAITING TILL NEXT PAY TO THEN GET CASTERS TO RAISE IT UP OFF OF THE BASEMENT FLOOR. We take on water sometimes & I am considering how to raise it up into the air a bit? Maybe I could use 2-4 tree stumps, Bolt it down to 4 equally sized stumps? I know that if I use caster's, I would gain several critical inches then, Coat it in grease to prevent any rust... but. I am considering reinforcing it by welding in more steel to prevent it from deforming under full load.
what is different between rifling on press vs on turn mill lathe?
IM READY
Isn't soap the recommended lubricant for rifling buttons?
What do you think of a pistol barrel made of 4140 steel and quenched and tempered to a hardness of 35-38 RC?
I would definitely rework that press, so you don’t have to go 1/4” at a time.
The simplest jobs are always the hardest