Why Are These Concrete Foundations Crumbling? | Ask This Old House
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- čas přidán 1. 11. 2018
- Ask This Old House mason Mark McCullough investigates a strange issue happening to foundations in the Northeast
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Mark discovered that thousands of homes built between 1980-2017 in Western Massachusetts and Northern Connecticut have concrete foundations with pyrrhotite in the aggregate. These foundations will, after a period of 20 years or so, begin to crumble until they are no longer structurally sound.
For more information, check the Connecticut Coalition Against Crumbling Basements (www.ccacb.org/).
Additional assistance with this segment was provided by Michelle Loglisci, Russ Dupere, and Mark Violette.
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Why Are These Concrete Foundations Crumbling? | Ask This Old House
/ thisoldhouse - Jak na to + styl
If this video was 60 minutes in length, there would have been standing there 50 guys around the table who accidentally heard what they where talking about.
I've been listening!!
This made me genuinely laugh
Reminds me of my dad's neighborhood. Pop the hood of your car, put a case of beer beside it, within an hour every dad on the street is in your driveway.
I was just about to make a similar comment.
Wasn't it farcical?
I thought it was, did you, how about you over there, and you stood next to the cooker, oh, and not forgetting you, what do you think? 😁
52
I'm surprised the camera man and the sound guy didn't catch the discussion and didn't approach to take a closer look.
Lmao. Why isn’t the landscaper adding their voice to how this is a tough situation?
Not just homes, but bridges, office buildings, and other structures are needing long-term pyrrhotite testing in the area. On a positive note, some homes even with reactive pyrrhotite may be okay if their foundation was properly insulated from moisture and drainage.
Tom could just hold the houses up with his bare hands
This is not a local occurrence. In SW Ontario, Leamington to be exact, there was a cement company that did the same thing to many customers there. I was one of them, but it was specific only to a driveway and sidewalks. This issue was of aggregate as well. In Canada, we have cold winters and we use salt to melt the snow and ice and because of that, the driveway's top layer was destroyed. They first blame us for parking on the driveway, but it came out that over 60 driveways poured that year had the same issue. They ended up give us free cement to replace, which held up, but we had to pay labour to remove the old driveway and pour the new driveway. Luckily, we had a great company do the work for us. If you are thinking we should have sued, the company went bankrupt and closed shortly afterwards. In looking back, we were lucky to get the concrete to replace the driveway for free. I feel for the people in this youtube clip. It will be a large mountain to climb.
Great segment. I'm in the process of looking at homes and checking the conditions of the basements. This is very important info to have. Thanks!
Because Tom the man Silva didn’t build them, that’s why they’re crumbling
As the aggregate is the problem, there's no way even Tom Silva would have known.
I'm a realtor in CT and work in the area where this is happening. It is absolutely *heartbreaking* for so many home owners. Think about it, you build your dream home 20 years ago when you're in your 40's with the plan to sell it when you retire to Florida only to find out that the house you thought was worth around 800k is only worth 500k because the foundation is shot. Yes, there are programs that will give homeowners money to aid in the replacing of your foundation, but the max (as I write this comment in September of 2022) is 190k. I had a house under contract with a buyer where the foundation was shot. My clients were actually ok with having the foundation replaced when the time came because they were getting such a great deal on the house. That was until we brought a contractor over to go over everything else that needed to be replaced after the foundation was completed. The backyard had well over 200k worth of landscaping that ALL had to be ripped up in order to replace the foundation. Needless to say, my buyers chose a different area of the state and are very happy in their new home! Anyone reading this that is looking to purchase a house in and around the Tolland County area of CT, MAKE SURE your agent knows ALL of the ins-and-outs of crumbling foundations! Especially the years houses/foundations were affected!
I love this show so much.
Another reason for me to love older houses. This just sounds horrible. I can't imagine how many houses across the country are affected.
Great info. Thanks
My wife’s uncle had to unretire and pay 200k to have his house lifted and foundation replaced due to this issue. This is terrible.
Why does it cost that much?
You have to lift the entire house off the ground, remove the bad foundation, put in a new one, put the house back down, and then repair the drywall throughout the house. VERY complicated and not many contractors can do it.
An accidental fire would have fixed the problem lol
You guys are awsom i love your videos
Hi guys another great video, I've heard of contractors using beach sand in the mix with the same results....Frank
This reminds me of an alkali-silica reaction problem (aka "concrete cancer") we (Germans) are having with some of the autobahns that where build after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
State of Connecticut taxpayers are trying to help out our neighbors afflicted with this, though those of us elsewhere in the state aren't thrilled that insurance isn't at all covering this and the original quarry/concrete companies aren't around to accept any fault either. So everyone is on the hook for this and it has completely devastated local home values for anything built after the early 1980s.
fprintf This is what’s called “privatizing profits and socializing cost”. This is happening everywhere.
My assumption is that because the insurance companies are all headquartered in CT, they are far too politically connected to be held to proper account with this crisis and instead are being permitted to side step this massive problem.
Where is Roger these days? I know he was getting around pretty slow and looked like he was in a lot of pain the last time we saw him. I hope he is doing well and coming back to the series.
Damn... I mean, I kinda figured he might be leaving soon, but it's still a little upsetting to see him stepping back... I get why he's doing it though, and all the more power to him!
Vamp Tepez thank you for posting this link.
No problem. I remember seeing it when it was originally published. I always enjoyed Rogers segments. But health and family always come first.
These are some guys I can trust
We've got rotten creosote pilings here at the Jersey shore. Most houses have about 20+ pilings. They're roughly $1500 a piece to fix...
We looked at a house this weekend in Connecticut it had a semi repaired foundation it’s pretty much almost the entire state with these .
Interesting in this area we have houses affected withthe same issues .. Normally contaminated backfill stone under the slabs and footings... Usually if the mix is proper due to the chemical changes that happen when the concrete is mixed the effects of the Pyrite should be minimized... Have yet to come across bad foundations due to Pyrite contaminated stone in the concrete mix ... Where can I find more technical information on this subject? Thx
This is certainly concerning. Probably no discussion of temporary remediation because the rest of the foundation could become unstable -- permanent replacement seems the only course.
Good to know 😉
Where can you send samples of your foundation to have it tested?
Could cathodic protection be applied to this problem?
This just isn't Springfield! This is all the towns east... Longmeadow to Charlton. Buyer beware. Any house built between 1980 and 2015... check the foundation FIRST. Don't waste your time falling in love with the house, if it's rising off the lally columns! Just saw a house in Southbridge with horizontal foundation cracking and white powder, and a one inch gap between a beam and lally column... of course, the realtor, and the homeowner claim total ignorance... "we have no knowledge of it." Yeah, sure. Slimeballs. BUYER BEWARE.
Wow.....this would be totally illegal in CT! That's the first thing they did was pass laws that made it illegal to sell an affected home without disclosing the issue. All real estate agents and home inspectors in CT have been trained to recognize the symptoms and visual cues of this issue.
Starting to see this in Oklahoma as well.
Are their any pictures of this anywhere?
What about Illinois! Our foundations are Crumbling too!!
So glad I live in Britain
We are too!
Could you epoxy inject all the void space to prevent water reacting with iron, thus preventing rust from spalling the concrete?
I see nobody’s answered your question, but the problem in CT and MA is the concrete itself was made with this stuff and it’s completely unfixable
Seen it during in SF earthquake same apt bldg. damage on every floor
Dang it you were in Springfield. You were so close to me
I'm so scared to watch this... :) Kevin passes the test!
Man 30-50 years ago people did absolute shit work, no one gets away with this crap these days
im currently going through this at my house.
We are too. It's been difficult.
Going through what can someone explain
ooof, horrific... yep, this is pretty basically a silent catastrophy.
Slowest moving natural disaster ever.
Think they should have rethought the outro for this particular video, Kevin should a finished off with a much more sombre ending.
Wow
2:25 - No touching
Who would dislike this... lol
Oh NO! Like HOW?! The rock is typically golden with rusty staining, isn't it??? Did not bring in an expert to varify area substrate. I sure hope someone is able to help compensate since it was definitely a fault/flaw. Devestating, honestly.
This problem has both local and nationwide implications. Even if you don't have this problem, it is going to hurt you too. Let's say 30% of the houses in a town declared $300K less valuation. Who is going to you pay the local taxes? Your $200K house will pay the same local tax of a $500K house with a crumbling foundation until that house is fixed and regain its value. What will happen to problem houses with a value of $300K or less?
All related MA/CT authorities should take a proactive approach by investigating this quarry and contractor companies to identify precisely which homes/buildings/bridges are affected. Even the cost of the test is so high that some new homeowners may take a chance by going with a visual inspection. Such decisions will hurt many of them.
MA/CT State Governments may offer incentives to engineering companies to innovate a cheaper way to replace the foundations. This problem is not a short-term one. We hear the first thousand cases. When this number comes to 10,000s, it will be a huge deal.
Thank you TOH for covering this. I am planning to buy a house and I learned this problem by chance. It will be great if you can visit a foundation replacement project.
Nightmare indeed.
There are entire subdivisions in the town of Maricopa AZ that have foundations literally crumbling away entirely, due to improper mix for the soil's chemistry. Soon as these companies discover they will be held responsible, they hide money, dissolve, & then start a new biz... & the state laws allow them to get away with it every time.
Do you have the name of any of the companies involved in this? I am going through the same issues and I'm in Phoenix, going way out on a limb here to maybe see if it is the same construction outfit. Thanks.
@@writewackynamehere ...sry, no. I'm not even sure where to start looking... maybe county assessor's office?
@@Krazie-Ivan Yeah, that's what the interwebs told me to do, go down to the recorder's office and see if they can help. May have to wait a while for that though, but thanks anyway.
Should new home inspections include some kind of foundation test?
You can call on a structural engineer to receive a diagnosis. Dropping an additional 4-600 dollars is much better than having to replace a whole house.
In Connecticut, most mortgage companies are requiring it now because they know it's an issue. In other parts of the country, since there hasn't been any evidence of the issue, it's not required.
@@thisoldhouse Good to know! Thank you. Very interesting video.
This Old House I think every home purchase should require a thorough inspection by a structural engineer no matter where the home is located. Too many people end up with the short end of the stick.
Only a matter of time before we learn that spray foam insulation is toxic
Yes, especially as the chemicals are reacting to form the foam in variable site conditions (temp, humidity etc), unlike a rigid board that's made in a factory. I won't be surprised if they are all found to have some long term toxicity.
I believe that it had already surfaced. There have been some foam jobs that have caused some type of has to infiltrate houses that cause significant nerve damage in the residents and have rendered the homes uninhabitable. May can Google and find the videos on that.
This is what happened to my house in Bellingham, MA new construction
Bellingham? Wow. Didn't realize it went that far east.
When was this??
I’m sure there is an easier fix. Sealing the concrete from moisture. Pouring a new foundation inside the old one. I doubt there going to be moving houses off the foundation and breaking it up and pouring a new one then putting the house back.
Actually they have started to in Connecticut on a few homes and it's the only way to structural fix things and a new foundation inside the old one will not be in the right place to have proper baring and the house are not built to do something like that. IE makes new problems bugs ( termites and carpenter ants ) and sealing up that overhang now from the elements
That's what's happening. A bunch of shady contractors were telling people they could "fix" the problem for 20k by adding support to crumbling foundation, but those solutions failed. The only fix is complete foundation replacement which, depending on home size, in our area runs 200-400k. People with no equity are screwed. Perhaps if foundations are sealed before it starts that could work, still big job that a lot of people can't afford but better than the alternative. I know someone nearby who had it in their foundation, pool, concrete walkways garage, everything..450k to fix before they sell the home.
Still a major-major job, but it seems that one could shore up the house so that the old foundation could be removed and replaced in sections. Very time consuming and expensive, but, geez! Just raising of not moving the house of the foundation! Oh man!!
Paul M most houses will have clearance issues and the bureaucratic government would send out lawsuits and fine issues.
b Carbon for a house that sells for 150 to 300k?
Up next on an emotional episode of ATOH....
Can builders just go back to rock foundations for new building construction?
So moral of the story, don't buy a house where the basement walls are crumbling. Got it.
Sounds like a Great reason to start a Civil suit
We bought a house in northern CT two years ago. Thankfully for us, news of this problem broke while we were house hunting. We didn't even look at anything built after 1980 since the problem is so widespread. We bought a great house built in the 40s. Still, this is everyone's problem. Worthless houses generate no tax revenue and whole towns are losing their ability to pay for roads, schools etc which hurts everyone's prop values. Insurance companies won't cover it because they classify it as effectively a maintenance issue. They would only cover it after your house collapses. If you find out about it and don't fix it you void your policy. So a lot of homeowners have incentives to "know nothing" until the problem becomes obvious. For buyers there is no way to.know without expensive testing. Also the concrete company who poured all these foundations had a convenient "fire" that destroyed all their records and then went out of business so it is hard to know what houses had the bad concrete. It should be treated like a natural disaster. It's slow moving but the property consequences are similar.
@b Carbon A "maintenance" issue?! Like cleaning the gutters? Good grief; insurance hardly ever covers what you think it covers.
Sorry to say but it doesn't sound the American way,
Here in the small country where I live, Authorities arrive to the building site and take a sample of the mixture to get it approved by the lab, otherwise you will not get the building permit.
I don't understand how come you build all these houses and probably roads and bridges, but didn't authorized the mixture quality??
How on Earth would you do that??? That makes no sense! You're saying that a sample is taken of each truck load of concrete on the day they are pouring a foundation?? Um....no way. A mix is only good for 30-50 mins once it's mixed...
Kindly explain what you mean.....
Would old houses in other states be impacted by this problem as well, at least that you might be aware of?
Not that we're aware of, but it's possible. As far as we know right now, this bad aggregate came from one specific quarry in CT that was in operation from 1980-2017.
Ok. I was just wondering b/c the poured shelf foundation of our old house seems to be doing some crumbling too.
AZ
The damage looks like a lady passing through the concrete. Doesn't that spook anyone?
The quarry should of tested the aggregate before using it any good quarry would
It was not commonly understood what the behavior was of the phyrotite in concrete back then so it wouldn't have mattered.
Home Insurance an option?
I live in Ct and everyone keeps saying insurance will not cover.
No, That'll cut into their profits....
@@volvo09, Exactly why I hate them. Happy to take,take,take but God forbid they have to pay.
It's a "pre-existing condition", so it's not covered by insurance.
@@jej3451, It shouldn't matter. I've changed insurance companies 5 times in 22 yrs and every time, they send a rep out to inspect to decide the price, condition and problems that may arise during the one year contract that we both entered and agree upon. If they sign on the dotted line with me, IMO, they are responsible to pay out for whatever happens. Too many loopholes in every contract that benefits them and not us. 95% of homeowners never make a claim. I wish I could have a company that gets to keep 95% of the money that's paid to me !!
It seems to be 2023 as well
what about insurance?
oh thank goodness, products from the 1980s and a problem that shows up in about 20 years, I'm good on this one. And a good reminder to have #insurance
Insurance is not covering the cost of repair
Businesses mess up, government will bailout homeowners with revenue from tax.
Profits are private, loss is socialized.
You can fix this without removing a house...
Go on...
You can fix it without lifting the house.....true
Composite foundation panels!!
Well THAT was a shitty ending.
Called home owners insurance
Doesnt cover it. Lots of people walking away from their houses.
brodie659 should have read their policy’s. Mine covers this
@@zack9912000 that's good. If most people's covered it, they wouldn't be setting up emergency funds and doing this video. All I can say is that when I lived in that area of CT, most people's insurance didn't cover it.
@@zack9912000 I doubt it....no offense. The policy would have to state without exception that it covers defective building materials and/or that it covers foundation/basement concrete walls that are "in the process of" failing/collapsing for any reason. No policy reads this way that I'm aware of. All insurance policy language is written by one organization. Each company then takes and tweaks it to their liking.
$200k @ 36,000 = $5B+
Yup...
And fema thinks this isn’t an emergency and took the high road...my town is the epicenter of this crap and my house just dropped 90% in value bc of beckers quarry.
No-one knows what the concrete contains.It might contain your drain sludge, waste tire,etc.
To the operations and financiers of the game: you are the foundation that the house must be saved from.
One of the key things the first letter indicates is that all people and religions worship God falsely. That includes Christians... And that includes you. Yes, Christians looked at your house in a very judgmental way with little mercy. However, when given the same opportunity, you did the same to them in retaliation through your punishment and torture of me. That means you are no better. Furthermore, they, in mass, don't have any truth revealed to them and continue with closed eyes. But you have had a visitation: you had time to learn, and the lessons you should have learned you failed to apply and went too far. So what does this prove? It demonstrates that you who claim to see are deserving of more penalty than the so called Christians who remain blind. That makes you a more worse offender.
Knowing everyone worshipped God falsely is the reason I trusted no one and no group: that includes the spies you sent after me from day one. I protected myself in fear. I chose to remain loyal to the one who had disciplined me than trust you at the team who choose to win at all costs. And you let your own PG-13 movie called "Ender's Game" judge you because, as he states, "...the way we win matters." And that is why you're not fit to lead or win.
The days after you acknowledge me as the rider on the horse and provided the beautiful anthem, I saw your fear and grew confused. When I realized how I made you feel, I cried because I already knew fear was bondage. That is why I joyed, danced and blushed everyday I saw you happy... I saw weight being lifted from the house. But you the foundation saw my kindness as weakness and sought to exploit it. It is you who are the answer to the song "What if God was one of us?" The answer?.... You would torture him and kill him for advantage when the opportunity presented itself.
Your foundation is built on cruel fear, oppressive power, half-truths and falsehood. But just as the first letter indicates as well as your letter, I will build and arrange my own house, one built on freedom from fear and on better promises. And I will destroy your foundation and establish my own. That future is near... And I will take from you your house and your family and establish it as part of my own in the name of God and in the name of....THE LORD.
Life long watcher of his old house. Bring back the old jingle. This new one is horrible
This isn't This Old House, it's "Ask This Old House", which is a separate 30-minute show.
when you need foundation repair
you want foundation repair
your home owners insurance won't cover this?
@@ekujj13 not poor workmanship.....defective building materials! The beef is with the manufacturer of the material not the insurance company....that's their position and they are sticking to it....
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt...........
Not by accident but design... the building boom scam additive..!!!
The chemical weathering, oxidation, of the pyrrhotite aggregate in the concrete is causing the concrete to expand. It is an unstoppable, continuous force, much like gravity is a continuous force. The problem was first discovered in 1990. It was determined that one quarry and one concrete company was responsible for this devastation.
In 2003 the insurance lobby in CT changed the wording in homeowners policies to specifically state that collapse of a house and not peril of collapse. Therefore, the insurance companies are off the hook. A class action suit was filed, and that concrete company is off the hook and out of business. Then Attorney General, now Senator, Richard Blumenthal's office was asked to investigate. Nothing was done. The state Department of Consumer Protection did nothing to warn home buyers. This is a complete dereliction of duty by the State of Connecticut.
The state of Connecticut is incapable of solving this problem. All they have done is leave the problem on the shoulders of the middle class. The only hope is for the FEMA to bail us out like they would if a hurricane wiped us out. FEMA will not help because the mixing of the concrete was not an act of God but an act of man. This is estimated to be a 7 billion dollar catastrophe.
All this would take is for Trump and the elected officials to persuade FEMA to change its policy. However, we have Democrat politicians who attack Trump every chance that they get instead of imploring him to look at the issue. The newly elected governor, Ned Lamont stated that he is going to stand up to Trump in his advertisements.
Bad mix, didn't anyone do a quality check? This is why America is going down. We have substandard job performance and it costs people who can't afford it.
Thanks Trump!
If this is happening to your home just tell Maura Healey that your an immigrant and she’ll fix it at the taxpayers expense.
First
WHO CARES (FIRST)
I dont know just like to do that
Sounds like planned obsolescence!! Enjoy! Honestly no recourse! So American!