The Best Cards For Casual Commander
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
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Oh slight mistake Karoo won’t let you bounce these lands! But my point about bounce lands still stands!
If they make a good counterspell land MDFC I will be buying 10 copies!
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Great vid, but the Karoo cycle doesn’t bounce MDFCs since they aren’t typed
Yea slight rules error on my part I’ll pin this comment so people don’t get confused
In a world of snore-worthy tier lists and complaints about Hasbro, Trinket Mage and Salubrious Snail keep making thoughtful content on CZcams. I am grateful.
The heroes we really need
Couldn’t have said it better
Love MDFC's in theory, but in practice I'm annoyed at pulling the card out of the sleeve to flip it all the time
Ok the actually flipping of the card is pretty annoying
Oh man what a difficult hassle, so hard to pull a card out of a sleeve 1 or 2 times a game.
I’ve stopped pulling them out of sleeves. People understand especially at casual. Though, I’m curious how often I use them as lands vs the spell side.
It's too bad they don't make a card that you can use to represent MDFCs in your deck, like maybe something with little boxes to write in the name of each side, with some space for additional text or something.
It’s why I never build werewolves
I really like MDFCs, but I think they get a bit worse in Decks with more colors. For Mono-Color or Dual-Color Decks the aspect that they enter tapped isn't a big deal. In decks with three or more colors, especially if you play many multicolored spells, they can become a bit troublesome if you play too much of them. In these decks you simply need more lands that tap for two or more types of Mana, to be able to fix your colors. As long as you play green you can somehow circumvent this with cards like Nature's Lore or Three Visits but for other color combinations it's a bit trickier.
I love them in mono/dual color decks
Agreed! Mythic cycle of MDFCs is the only one I run in tri+ colors.
Now I just wanna see something silly like an MDFC land only deck ---> never miss a land drop lol
There are modern decks like that called oops all spells which use goblin charbelcher
I play a good amount of MDFCs when I can. I think there are other cards that are secretly MDFC lands without directly telling you- any lands that have Cycling, or spells that have Landcycling. Even spells that have cycling can be considered modal spells, and cantrips like Ponder can be considered these as well.
Some cards ask you to look at the top X cards of your library and find a subgroup of card, threatening to whiff if you don't find a card that meets that requisite. If some of your lands are actually creatures, or instants, when face up in your library, these cards are less likely to whiff, but also they are granted a higher quality if they are suddenly allowed to give you the option to make your land drop when otherwise they wouldn't.
I run Silundi Visions in a cEDH deck just because it can dig for my blue counterspells, and should be in every single blue spellslinger deck anyways, casual or not. It is either a turn one land or, if the deck is playing spellslinger right, your gigantic grip should have enough land drops for the rest of the game so it turns your 15th land into another cast trigger.
The ones I don’t run much though are the creature MDFC’s, besides Tangled Florahedron, unless they provide synergy.
Malakir rebirth has been fantastic for me. I often find myself using the spell side. It being one mana lets me play my commander and hold up protection for cheap in the early game
They’re great in Mina and Denn where you can play them early and consistently get them back with their activated ability. You can even do it in response to something at instant speed, bouncing the land and casting its spell as interaction in response to something.
Kazuul's Fury/Kazuul's Cliffs is the first MDFC I came upon and still my favorite. The only problem with those is that it's self torment material because you never know if you should hold onto it or just put it as a land in fear you won't have enough for your other MDFCs!
Best video intros I’ve seen. Right into it. No time wasted. Subscribed Liked
Yea I hate when people front load the patron stuff and subscribing so I usually just open with a joke or the main topic
Love MDFCs, I’ve been advocating for them for a long time. However I do think some are better than others, bala ged recovery, Malkir rebirth, sejiri shelter are great but some are definitely over costed and I try to avoid too many tapped lands. To me, they’re basically free value, great video :)
The original Karoo cycle asks that you bounce an untapped land with a basic type. If you think of playing a tapland as costing you mana to play, then the Karoo cycle costs you two, and they won't let you bounce your mdfc lands unless you've given them land types. I think the only one I like of the karoo cycle is the green one when I'm in monogreen with a lot of exploration effects. The white one is close, but after Lotus Field, Lotus Vale, and Scorched Ruins, you've already added a lot of lands that don't play well in concert. Enough of these in your deck can lead to a lot of mulligans that wouldn't otherwise have been.
this
This is pure gold; thank you!
Glasspool mimic is one of my all time favorite cards. I put it in almost every deck with blue.
I think one of the main benefits of MDFC lands is that I get to run more lands. I won't cut a plains for Ondu Inversion, but I'll cut one plain and the Day of Judgement for both Ondu Inversion and Makindi Stampede.
It's a bit like playing cycling lands or cantrips in pauper (at leat back when I played a lot of pauper), it was slow enough format for us to count both cycling lands and 1 mana cantrips as half a land and half "the average card of the deck". So I can run 12, rather than 16 counterspells and only 18 non-cycling lands.
I run MDFCs in as many decks as they fit the theme. I ALSO run the LOTR land cyclers in a lot of my decks in a land slot. They can go fetch my dual lands for the cost of just tapping 1 mana or be useful as a creature or draw spell later in the game as well.
The land cycling cards are also so good! I wish the red and white ones were a bit better though
@@thetrinketmage yeah, they're still playable (especially a weeny deck for the eagle) but all 4 pale in comparison to the blue one...
Most of the spells on the MDFCs are overcosted by design. So you're choosing between a non-basic that etbs tapped and taps for only one color mana or a bad spell. I will admit that turntimber symbiosis is a lot of card for the few dollars that it goes for though. Agadeem's Awakening is the best of the bunch but is the least budget friendly.
MDFC lands are also really sweet with ways to play lands from the yard, since you can cast the spell half and still get the land drop
I run mdfc's in all of my decks, higher power decks i usually only use agadeem, sea gate, valakut, malakir, and bala ged. Mid tier power decks i run any of the rwst that are relevant to the deck. Mdfc are a land that could be a spell at the right moment, utilizing land spots so that your still running enough lands but so that those lands are more relevant when you dont need them as a land.
I run Balaged Recovery in every deck that runs green. I also have two decks that use MDFC's as commanders. Extus, Oriq Overlord as a mid range sacrifice control deck and Jadzi, Oracle of Archavos as a simic big dumb spells deck. Both are really versatile with the spell back side and the creature front side. Also, with the Jadzi one, the backside will help you cast the front side by letting you dump all your lands in hand, onto the battlefield. With Tatyova, Benthic Druid in play, you're likely to draw into more lands to recast it when it returns to your hand. It's a wild deck and not like anything else I have, but it's a ton of fun.
Of note, green has access to things like Analyze the Pollen, Bushwhack, Thirsting Roots and Traverse the Ulvenwald. As an example, Thirsting Roots is effectively a land that costs a mana to play, which is on par with an ETB tapped land. But, late game, its a proliferate. So, it's essentially a MDFC land.
Thirsting roots is tough to justify, but if you are a green heavy deck, a spells deck, and you can use the proliferation? Yeah OK. But I feel like once an modal card is off theme then it really plunges in the "what a good card for my deck" rating
Traverse the ulvenwald felt like such a sleeper find in my bulk. I put it in a self mill deck and it’s basically always a tutor
@@jaredwright1655 Yeah, make sure you can use the "other half" of each. If you can't use the proliferate, I wouldn't bother using Thirsting Roots.
@@ThatWeirdAtom It might be a ETBT land if you have forest, forest and Traverse in your opening hand for a 2-color deck. But otherwise, yeah, most of the time, it's a tutor.
Tetzin loves double faced cards, though it creates a very explosive deck
Path to exile is actually a secret MDFC. The other side reads: exile a creature you control, get a land... it goes in every white deck
I’m still waiting for the day to see this in practice
Absolutely love these bad boys, especially the lands. Playing with them forces you to consider the cost and potential rewards of 2 important goals: hitting your land drops throughout the game and not running out of steam. Considering that dilemma is fun, and makes you a better magic player
Malakir Rebirth goes in all my black decks!
I love your videos!!! Thanks man
I’m really glad you enjoy the content! And thank you so much for your support!
i run balaged recovery in so many decks, the ability to return cards from the graveyard combined with life from the loam to get it back is insanely useful in any number of self mill decks, love it in zask, muldrotha to get non permanents and any other green graveyard based decks
thanks for reminding me to order mine!
One mana land type cyclers are the MDMCs of pauper commander. Also you should talk about pauper commander!
Maybe one day! I haven’t played enough pauper commander to really comment on it yet
WOOOO MDFC LOVE! I literally include them in every deck because they're so versatile
I’ve loved MDFC’s since their release in Zendikar. They’re pricier but really help with removal or protection like Malakir Rebirth and Sejiri Shelter. I even use Zof Consumption in my Anhelo deck since he can copy it for a groupwise drain. I’ve stopped pulling them out of sleeves to show people I am using them as lands. People understand at casual levels.
Muldrotha, the Gravetide takes these to a whole new level. Its crazy to me more people don't include them when running graveyard based builds.
Crazy good in Muldrotha
Great video 👍
I agree they are very useful, people should play more
I also play bloodmoon in every red deck so I may be biased
Silundi vision in Kalamax the Stormsire means I can either look at the top 12 cards of my deck and grab the best 2 (crazy) or I get a land. And I have run as few as 29 lands in casual kalamax just because he needs so little to get going. That plus Khalni ambush feels so good.
Echoing Equation is an awesome card, auto-include in 4c Omnath. Won a few games by turning a handful of tokens into Omnath and playing 3 lands! The borderline infinite mana is pretty nice too.
Mega underrated card!
I play malakir mire/malakir rebirth in my new Ramirez de pietro, pillager deck. It is a quasi-blink deck where I play sacrifice outlets on ETB creatures that are kept alive by cards like Not Dead After All, after which I get another ETB trigger from them. Malakir rebirth was a card I bought because it is another one that fits the strategy.
Rebirth might be one of the best MDFC cards ever printed
Great video! I especially want to be using these with bounce lands. Check out the Lair lands. I discovered these when I drafted Dominaria remastered and use the Jund one in my Lord Windgrace deck because it comes in untapped and color fixes. I'm not fully onboard the MDFC train, though I could see buying up a bunch of the underused ones for one and two color decks. Here's my problems with them.
1. Budget: The pathways and the most useful MDFCs are overpriced, which budget is a big issue in casual for a lot of players. I specifically see the pathways as overrated, but even others, because you're most likely cutting a basic land for them. This leads to the next issue.
2. What to cut: It's always a struggle. People will all too quickly cut land and I've been guilty in the past. Just get rid of basics! Why not?! Basics are so underrated. Many cards care about how many swamps you have or any other type. Also, if you're using a sword of the animist, etc, you may start to whiff. So what else do you cut? A land that fixes? In some decks, this won't be a problem, but some people will accidentally cut basics to their detriment
3. The annoying problem: Watching people pull cards out and flip them is annoying and takes up time. This is fixable. Use a checklist or one of those blank tokens or even one of the basic lands you have too many of and write the name of the card it represents on it. Put that in your deck and keep double faced cards in clear sleeves on the side.
4. Multicolored decks: Anything 4 or 5 colors and I'm probably not entertaining these, because otherwise I would have to cut an actual card, not a land. Even 3 colors is a stretch unless I really care about the ability.
5. Overcosted: They usually cost extra mana to get a similar effect. This isn't terrible if you're running that as well and this replaces a land, but in some cases replacing the land just isn't wise and thus it becomes a bad card in the deck.
Again, you present a great case. I think they have niche uses and it's a fairly large niche, but people can fall into deck building traps with these as well
I tend to leave MDFCs on the land side, unless they're normally permanents, then I leave them on the nonland side. Whichever is likely to stick on the battlefield for longer.
Ondu Inversion costs 8 to cast, it doesn't have choices like Austere Command, and it doesn't exile like Farewell. It can still be a great include, but the land side coming in tapped is not the only opportunity cost.
I play the Skyclave claric MDFC land in my party Nalia deck just because it's a land i can play off the top of the library.
Some of the other MDFC's prices do sting a bit tho
Malakir Rebirth is in my Necron deck. I have Kazuul's Fury and Song-Mad Treachery for when I put together a jackNsac deck.
Be careful about cutting lands with the intent of an MDFC using its nonland half.
If my deck needs a regrowth effect, I might run Bala Ged Recovery, but I would cut a nonland card. In contrast, if my deck doesn't need a regrowth effect, I could run Bala Ged Sanctuary (the land side of Bala Ged Recovery) and have the rare occasion of using it as a regrowth. So if you think you need 10 draw cards, don't cut a land for an MDFC (Sea Gate Restoration). Instead cut a land for a land that draws (Mikokoro, Center of the Sea OR War Room OR Castle Locthwain)
That’s a fair point and I should’ve mentioned I usually run like 38 lands in my decks when you include MDFCs
I've never ran an mdfc in a deck. I just never seem to find the room. I'm really picky about card quality and there isn't a single one that impresses me. Maybe I'll look harder next time though. This video has made me reconsider... maybe.
Bushwhack is basically an mdfc and I absolutely love that card
I run a grixis spellslinger deck and i use Silundi Visions and Hagra Mauling in there. Silundi is a strong draw spell and Hagra is a kill spell in a pinch. I run Spikefield and Valukut Awakening in my Tai Wakeen burn deck and theyve also proven invaluable.
I prefer not to count them as anything but lands with respect to deck balancing for draw spells, removal, etc.
I maximize playing the ones I own, but i dont own enough to treat them as an autoinclude. I wish I had 4-6 of all of them though cuz I'm a commander gremlin and I agree with the sentiment of the video.
The LOTR landcyclers (and other landcyclers) deserve some consideration in this space as well. I also max these when possible
From my experience, Karoo lands are far worse than the newer bounce lands in mono colored. You have to bounce an untapped land with the type on it, so the turn you play it, it’s hard to do much else. It can essentially lock up your early game. And you can’t bounce Mdfc lands with them naturally.
The only Karoo land I play is the blue one in my mono blue sea creature deck. That deck has far less to do in the early game because the curve is so ridiculous so it’s easier to get it out without slowing me down, but also nezahal is my commander so in the late game I can use it to discard and blink nezahal, so I can get use out of it that way. Also it can bounce my mystic sanctuary if I want it to.
i had mix feelings about these cards but your opinion has swayed me
Great video thanks
Have a nice day, from France
All of my Commander decks run MDFC'S . Love em'. I try to be careful about it though. Simply taking out a land for an MDFC has a real cost. The opportunity cost is clear that they're worth playing, but it's important to remember that MDFC'S are 2 bad cards stapled together. Bala Ged Recovery is a good example because it's one of the most popular ones yet it's worse Regrowth on the front and worse Forest on the back. The flexibility is key but you're always getting a worse version of something else. Point is your mana base can all of a sudden get gutted by going too heavy on them and appreciating they're flexibility can become a non factor. Usually not a problem for me since I tend to run more lands than the average player.
I think some of the MDFCs are definitely staples, Shejiri and Valakut are good no matter what. My main opportunity cost with MDFCs is that I hold onto them for too long because what if I need that Kabira Take Down
I opened a lot of ZNR, I loved MDFCs, but boy am I bummed that I opened almost none of the good ones (bala ged recovery, malakir rebirth). Like 10 copies of spikefield hazard and skyclave cleric, but over two booster boxes I got ONE bala ged recovery!
I didn’t open too much of the set but I also never cracked a bala ged ended up having to order one
Put them in all my decks, see also the land cyclers from LOTR which I would argue are better because they get dual typed lands so can fix your colours
The land cycles are really good
Do you play any lands with cycling or the spells with one mana land cycling abilities I especially love the blue island cycling one
0:50 Actually it does matter since you will always miss that one mana you needed
Yup I try to fit mdfc + bounce lands and my decks are high-ish power lvl.
I used to hate the bounce lands but with MDFCs they feel much better
Draw/removal/ramp has never been an issue for me. My issue currently getting all that plus cards to fill my weaknesses AND keeping everything synergistic. I'm trying to build disruptive Alela and trying to balance that against actually having a game plan once I've taken control is painful
The Karoo cycle of lands won't work with mdfc's because Karoo needs you to return a Plains to hand.
Yes oops. Well good think I haven’t tried that out yet
I was playing standard, but the land/spells were my favorite from zendikar
@1:02 Aura deck is bad example because creature removal is the solution to Voltron
Thanks dunkey
Feels like the first 2 seconds of the video got cut due to rendering? Although, still great video!
Wait what? It should start with me saying MDFC lands. Is that not what you see? There is no intro maybe I should have one? Idk I just wanted to get into the topic at hand
It's funny how I got to Trinket Mage channel after the EDHrec guys - and you guys are playing two totally different types of casual EDH. They hate the old modal land-cards because "8 mana for mass removal? Games finish on turn 6 most of the time" - and the same goes for the land-half, "Tapped land is too steep of opportunity cost - other half has to be better". Funny how different people have such contrasting anecdotal experience.
adventure cards are great because of this too, they are 2 cards in 1
I definitely run “too many” mdfcs but I feel like I never get burned
That means you are not running “too many” maybe you have “too few”
A lot of times, it would be better to more consistently and quickly put out one of the many strong value engines in the format out than run MDFCs. I view them similar to cantrips. Those have largely been cut in cEDH lists. In casual, you can afford to play tap lands but it's still probably not optimal. I would say they dont make it into high power decks for good reason.
lands that always enter tapped are one of the biggest opportunity costs there is
Only when you were going to use the mana. So on turn 1 you might not need any mana. Or on turn 6 you might not have a 6 drop
All I saw was... Best Cards. So... Power 9. :P
well now i want to play a search for blex deck.
sol ring was a bad example for opportunity cost lol. its like the one card that has none. even mana crypt has one. but not sol ring.
You have to be playing at a pretty low power level for a bunch of tapped lands not to hurt your deck. The amount of times where a tapped land has stopped me from doing something in EDH is quite large, so I've stopped playing most tapped lands. Most of the time, that MDFC spell won't help you anyway. They're something to consider, sure, but I think you've underrepresented the drawback
I really want to run Emeria's Call in my mono white angels deck, but the fact it specifically makes *non* angels indestructible for a turn makes me very sad :(
I kinda don’t like, flip the card system, i don’t want to resleeve or pull out and read the other side, especially if it’s not mine.
Try Thirsting Roots or Bushwhack. They are essentially MDFC lands, except that the land side is more like Ash Barrens than directly entering the battlefield tapped.
@@chaosredefined3834 thats a green only solution isn’t it?
I have the original flip enchantments from the first Ixalan and a few Meld cards but that's it. Double-sided cards and the proliferation of Treasure tokens (among other things) soured me on new product.
@@leax1337 Yeah, but it gives him a taste of what the vid is talking about.
@@chaosredefined3834 it's just a critique of the mechanic not the video.
While I understand your perspective, I honestly disagree with almost every point in the video. MDFC’s, for the most part, are bad lands on one side and bad spells on the other. In the words of an EDHRECast episode “Hagra Mauling feels bad no matter which side I play”. I feel similarly for ondu inversion and most other ones (with some exceptions). I do play sejiri shelter and bala ged recovery because at least one half is good, but ondu inversion is a way overcosted board wipe or a tapped mono land. I’d rather play a board wipe if I need one or a utility land if I need one. Also a note on the removal part: I think there is a huge difference between paying 1 or 2 or 3 on removal, because of how it slots into your curve. 1 is practically a free spell because it fits into so many curves with a double spell, whereas at 3 mana you are paying a whole spell’s worth of mana for a spell. Sure path can’t target an enchantment, but I’ve found when I build decks I budget for “specific” removal as well as catch-all removal. MDFC’s in theory are amazing, but in application I’ve never been satisfied
I think hagra mauling feels great when you top deck it late game. The longer the game goes the better each of these get. And in casual games which easily go past turn 7 I think the flexibility is so good. Considering the power level edhrec cast promotes I’m surprised they don’t like the card
@@thetrinketmage I agree they get better in the late game, but early game and mid game these cards are at best okay, but average out to not be great. I didn’t think about this when I commented it, but they are incredibly similar to cycling lands, which more or less aren’t played in the format anymore. Comparing spikefield hazard to forgotten cave in my mono red deck, I think I’d rather play forgotten cave, which I don’t even play. I think MDFC’s 6 or 7 years ago would’ve been ubiquitous in the format since it was so much slower, but nowadays even in long casual games I find I have enough options into the late game that I wouldn’t even want to cast a lot of them. Maybe I need to experiment with them more but I think they just fill a need that I think I reflexively design out of when I deckbuild
I also agree with your reason. For me MDFCs takes alot from my curve and consistency. I would rather choose a cheaper spell for a specific purpose. 😊
Yeah all these cards that see 0 cedh play (exactly the same fkn format) should see play in EVERY deck because they're so good
The ones that come into play untapped do see play in cEDH. Also this argument is pretty weak. A card not seeing play in cEDH does not mean it isn’t good in casual play
I think you can‘t compare generous gift or beast wirhin with things like PoE or SwordsOfPlowshare
They cost more but are so more versatile
Best intermediate commanders ?
MDFCs are such a fun way to cheat more cards into decks as they can suffice as a land or a spell- THAT BEING SAID- WOO ZENDIKARDS I LOVE ZENDIKARDS
Counterpoint : Double Sided cards feel bad to play for everyone at the table.
Like the time it takes to flip the card? I’m kinda confused
@@thetrinketmage People constantly having to check the backside of cards to remember what they do, giving up game info. Even enforcing a 'check it discretely on your phone' policy has not been ideal.
For cards that can change later on the battlefield, now there's info that's not readily available at a glance, too.
Having to take out the card and flip it around, too, I'm not a fan of doing, myself.
These cards are generally really good, so they find themselves in a lot of decks that our group plays with, regardless.
Frankly I think these cards range from "meh" to "not at all worth it"
Even the ones that enter untapped?
I rather play cards like sacred ground, obscure and oly works in the deck, pce
If they come tapped I am not playing them
How am I so early?
Also Hi!
hey!
MDFCs have changed the mulligan game. I run them in every deck except my pauper edh decks. Wotc print common MDFCs you cowards
Oooo zzof consumption.. i literally just lost a game cause i couldnt deal the last 4 damage to this grul player (with a ping deck) and he over ran me ->-
Why bother bluring out the cards in the thumbnail when we can clearly still read them...
I hate this design, when you have to pull your card out of sleeve, turn it and put back. This is so stupid. I use dedicated double-faced card proxy checklist or helper card, IMO little less stupid but still...
Bleh. Double-sided cards are one of the many reasons I stopped buying new product. They feel janky and lazy to me.
Yea I just got the chance to finally use a double sided land card in a deck that I was building and it felt really good to not be cutting a land or a pet card for once
I usually play 3 or 4 MDFC lands in each deck. I typically don't count them as a land slot because I plan on wanting to use the spell, but they really help prevent you from getting mana screwed when you aren't drawing your regular lands.
Most of the time the mdfc should just be a land play, like 60% it should end up being a land, 40% it is the spell. Should definitely be a land slot otherwise defeats the point. In two color deck a bounce land can let you use the mdfc as a land early then later bounce to hand to use.
but they are so expensive when you are on a budget
@@MrXaoras only the mythic ones are very expensive and again i said i use those in higher power decks, your not building a higher power deck if your building a budget deck. There are a ton of cheap mdfc that are very good and available for a budget or mid to lower teir deck.
@@jeremiahchamberlain4179 that's just the way I do it in my head, I run 35-37 lands typically, which I don't think is enough. That's just what ends up working for me ha
@@FightinTheGorlax 35 lands is plenty in most decks as you should be also running rocks or land ramp spells like three visits depending on colors in the deck. The whole point of mdfc is they go into land slots. The slots it sounds like you are putting them in at the moment should be rocks or ramp.