LAMA LAB TESTED: Do Rocker Plates Affect Power Accuracy?
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2021
- Putting the KOM Cycling RPV1 Rocker Plate to the test in the Lama Lab to see if it had any influence on the power data from the Wahoo Kickr 5 or the Power2Max NGeco power meter.
KOM Cycling Official Site: bit.ly/3wk3jqm
KOM Cycling RPV1 Rocker (Amazon US): amzn.to/3m95Bnm
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Great to see this testing! Thanks for the effort behind it and sharing the details so well, as usual. It really helps answer one of the key questions related to power and rocker plate use. Nice to know that we can trust the trainer and power data when using motion for trainers :D
Shane hit them with the "GG EZ Clap" after the sprint.
Quality content as always 👍
Way to read the other riders and get the early jump on them. Thanks for the eval on the rocker.
I remembed trying the Saris rocker at CABDA 2019. Idk about feeling power but it was fun riding one
For those in the UK that KOM rocker is branded as a "Lifeline" and currently on offer at CRC/ Wiggle for £224. It was £200 not so long ago. I've just had one delivered, its well made, though I've added tennis balls to reduce the lean a little. My current weight doesn't help on that score.😉 Only other very slight negative is that it's a little shorter than some rockers so a wheel block might extend over the front a little depending on bike. Sterzo fits on mine fine though.
Thanks for the vid, great as usual. Loved the analysis of the race win too.👍
I just got one 2 days ago in the Black Friday for £149 delivered(from £249) and the Lifeline Tutbo Trainer table stand for £49 (from £119)...today (23/11/22) they've gone back up and it'd be £50 more...looks like I got lucky with the timing, and in these crazy days with rampant inflation I couldn't even get the materials for that!!
Would love to see a DIY Bunnings/Amazon rocker plate tutorial from you. Maybe the one with fore and aft movement?
Used those tactics on a chaingang once. They work, especially if your MAP is good. Never quite got it to work in races.Damn I hate the look of rocker plates!
Nice, loving the sprint tips too. Interesting using the ball pressure to act as a levelling thing, instead of a counter-weight, but as long as it doesn't make it feel wonky then hey.
I have one team mate who over achieves in sprints and his strategy is quite often to kick after someone, than ease up sit in their draft for a couple seconds and than kick again.
I'm going to try my rollers on a rocker plate!
RIP 🪦
@@gplama I've learned to Never doubt Galen. Dude shows up to local tuesday night cat 1 crits on a fixed gear 60T Front ring, with 160mm cranks (he's over 6ft) and proceeds to do crazy things...
Put my wattbike on a homebrew rocker.works a treat!👍
Ultimate setup: Tacx Neo (w/downhill drive), Wahoo Kickr Climb and Wind, Elite Sterzo and a rocker plate 🤯
I agree with you that rocker plates do not impact the reading of the power-meters but I believe (which is harder to prove) that they impact the ergonomics of the ride. I am not sure if the rocker plate helps or impedes the rider in/from applying power to the pedals, but it is sure it makes a difference. The only way to test that is to try 10-20 all-out sprints (using the same trainer) with and without rocker plate and see if you notice a visible difference in the average of the pick 15 second power of the sprints.
Yeah, power consumption and/or production is a much tougher item to test. It depends on things like the specific rocker motion, rider use, power level, rider position and other conditions. I have a loose draft on the issues since they are many, but as you mention, getting worthwhile testing is a challenge. I suspect that there are cases where the rider may well "lose" power, "gain" power, or be neutral with respect to a rigid setup. A bit like a full suspension bike, I think the ultimate results (gain/loss/none) will be a result of conditions that vary.
You need the sauce for strava extension :)
Yes, please put the SB20 on a rocker!! Mass meeting movement.
🐘🛹
I've already managed to crash off my Vortex trainer, a rocker plate would just ruin me :)
You're a mind reader lol thinking of buying this!
Thanks for the great review and zwift tips. Do you think an Elite Direto would work on this rocker plate given the Velcro cutouts and the orientation of trainer’s legs? Thank you.
I haven't tried. I can't see why that wouldn't work.
I’m sad not to see a kickr climb on this contraption
Hey Shane. I’ve got my KICKR bike on an Omnirocker. Always felt that it didn’t give me the same power output as I get outdoors. Watching this I might take it off and do some similar tests. Be interesting to know your take on it also.
The ability to create power vs the power being accuracy reported are different things. A topic I’m not going into..... for now.
@@gplama yes. A much better way to put it! Now how to test that? RPE and HR using the same efforts?
Can you use the Kickr climb with the rocker plate?
I built my own from the design by Andrew Grabbs, it has fore-aft and side to side and I absolutely love it, I have over 30 years experience riding trainers and the fore-aft motion is the key to any rocker, IMO. I have no interest in power numbers, I rely on perceived effort.
Why is fore-aft key. There’s no real scenario on the road where the bike is moving in this motion. It tends to be a relatively constant forward and the side to side motion as efforts increase 🤷🏼♂️
Hello how are you Shane first of all great videos great content. I want to ask you something its any possibility if you can make a video about how to use resistance mode on wahoo kickr v5 all videos i found is all about ERG MODE how about people like me who doesn't like ERG MODE how we use resistance mode and how to set it up. Thanks so much in advance.
Resistance mode as in level mode (0-10 levels of resistance), or interactive resistance mode that simulates virtual terrain?
Hi, thanks for this video. I realized you mention you don’t use rocker plates during your normal rides and workouts. Do you have a personal opinion on them? Keep on watching CZcams channels from other pros and don’t see them using rockets either.
Interested on your take! 😊
Thanks in advance 💪🏻
See my other videos on them. All explained there.
@@gplama I’ll do! Thanks for the amazing content!
I have my Wahoo kickr smart bike on a rocker plate without any problems
Mr Lama, any chance you could add the Lama trainer test workout to the Lama Library on Whatsonzwift? Looks like a solid workout
I'm thinking of releasing the Lama Lab Test as an open standard for people to use when doing their own testing/power comparisons. It's extremely useful for comparisons/evaluations if everyone can follow a similar protocol.
@@gplama that would be appreciated!
+1 for this pleaee
Gday Lama….maybe you could do a video on IF rocker plates impact your ability to generate peak power….. the jury is out for me.
The answer would be "It depends". It depends on the type of rocker, the setup, how a rider sprints, and how much they've 'trained' themselves to sprint on the rocker. Sprinting on a rocker is nothing like sprinting outside where the bike moves A LOT differently.
would you put a concept2 rower or a treadmill on an unstable surface? daft.
I don’t do rowers 🤷🏻♂️
you should run that test with the Saris MP1 - i go with a Kickr Bike - Saris MP1 combo & have the feeling that the forward/backward motion has an significant influence in sprints, under high load and uphill. still way more comfortable.
Ability to produce watts on a rocker is a different test to accuracy.
Go Canada!
Hi Shane! What’s your favourite rocker so far? Have you tried the inside ride e flex yet?
The MP1 has been the most interesting. Unfortunately Larry from InsideRide took it upon himself to troll me from an anonymous account a little while back for my views on rollers... he was found out, called out, and I won’t be touching anything from his company on principle. It might be a great product, but I simply don’t care after his actions.
The question is would you break your frame during that sprint if it was not on a rocker plate
No. I’ve done thousands of sprints indoors and never broken a frame.
does it make any sense to try a Wattbike on a rocker plate?
Maybe.... I don’t have access to one to try this.
Yep, loads of people including me have done it...works a treat
My bike has broken after a few years being used as a dedicated indoor bike on the Kickr. It was an alloy bike which has some flex so wouldn’t want to use carbon indoors tbh. So a rocker plate is safer if you want to remove the risk of damaging your frame if used indoors
Two conclusions I wouldn’t be making based on one broken alloy frame.
Basically a Rebadged Ridenow Rockerplate.
Correct, this is a more polished version of the RideNow and the LifeLine that was the first rebadging of that product. The KOM Cycling is the 2nd rebadge.
I bought the Saris rocker platform and I HATE it. I can't even get rid of it, so it's a $1200 waste.
As you would say Shane - hmmmm. Not sure that was a proper race sprint, looked a bit like a sprint on a cafe ride, others were content to roll to the line, but you kicked, so they did.
It’s always a sprint.
Sprint was down hill. Would be different up hill i think
I don't believe those numbers. There should be some power difference between the rear trainer and the crank. See road.cc & velonews use of that difference to analyze lubricants and drive train losses. You don't have any loss between the two. Something is screwy.
There's nothing to not believe in. Those are the numbers. My test protocol is solid. I don't adjust the data. If the reference data you're referring to is from companies who have a vested interest in advertising or selling low friction components and accessories... then.... well.... that's another problem.
Maybe Wahoo are factoring in a small amount of drivetrain loss? Maybe the claimed losses aren't as large as they want people to believe. I have a LOT of comparative datasets. I just don't see the same numbers as claimed through drivetrain losses using an optimal setup/chainline/etc.
If I could prove their claims, this channel would be a GOLDMINE for them to send products to for evaluation. There's more to this..... but that's the summary.
@@gplama I just don't accept the supposition that the drive train is perfectly efficient. But I might be willing to accep the notion that Wahoo might jazz the numbers. Did they send you the trainer directly or did you buy it 'off the rack'?
@@deuterateddad5989 I'll accept they're within the claimed accuracy ranges, which could explain whey they're close. The trainer was from commercial stock here in AU.... so no need to go down that line of thinking. Anyhow... all off topic. The video itself was regarding the calibration/reporting with and without a rocker.